India (should be called Bharati) is a ocean of cultures, languages and its so ancient as human kind's history itself. Every time we dig our roots, we found mind blowing information. Much listen session 👍👍. I will surely read this book shown in cover. Shrikant ji 🙏🏼🙏🏼
Awesome discussion, hats off to you Shrikanth Sir! Bowled over by your subject matter expertise and even more inspiring to see you stand up against the crooks who peddle political ideologies as truth and history! Kushal as a host made the conversation engaging and fascinating, thanks to both of you!!
AIT or AMT sounds more like “jiski lathi uski bhais”. If instead of Europeans, any East Asian people like Chinese or Japanese had invaded and colonized India, and came up with the Buddhist Invasion theory, our then scholars would have believed them as well.
But Talageri only harps on European and North India. There are lot of connections with Burma and Asia. David Frawley explains Vedas have lot of references to oceans. If central asia is the epicenter, then the ocean references don't make sense.
Talageri is Konkani Saraswat like me. In Konkani language we call the water carrying pots Ghagar. This may have been derived from the river Ghaggar-Hakra which is now identified with Sarasvati, and Saraswats are people who migrated from the banks of Sarasvati when it dried up. So identity of Sarasvati with present day Ghagar-Hakra may have some truth to it. As Talageri mentioned Konkani people are the only one who use udaak for water, and Konkani may have retained older connections more faithfully.
Ghaggar river's name is some regional derivation of "gharghara" meaning to make sound as the water flows through the rocks. It has nothing to do with ghaagar meaning pot.
Everything Talageri says is correct except one thing. He denies the spiritual tradition of RgVeda which is not true. There is a lot of philosophy in Rg Veda. The RgVeda without philosophy is a wrong notion.
Although I highly respect Shrikant Talageri for his pioneering research into disproving the Aryan Invasion Theory, at some point it feels as though he has also imbibed much of the western view of the Vedas as mere mundane worldly poetry asking for material gains from the gods, devoid of any spiritual ideas or philosophy (he said this in so many words here). On the contrary, there is a long tradition of exegesis that shows the immense symbolism and philosophy in the Rig Veda samhita itself, and it is very clear that the Rig Veda samhita has influenced the Upanishads and all subsequent philosophy in India, including Buddhism and Jainism. The Rig Veda samhita contains the seeds of all later Indian philosophy. Unfortunate that a scholar such as Talageri has to strip the Rig Veda of its main purpose. He should integrate his work with the wholistic tradition as well.
No, I think this comment misrepresents Shrikantji's work, and the purpose behind his work. Western "scholars" dismiss any and all analysis by Hindu intellectuals as not "rigorous", not "scholarly" and as "religiously inspired." These foreign "scholars" pretend that, while their analyses are purely empirical and evidence-based, Hindus are too "emotional" and "irrational" when discussing about the Vedas etc. due to their religious faith. Shrikantji has chosen the right way to fight these tricksters -- he has avoided any discussion about the philosophical/religious content of the Vedas, and focused purely on the linguistic evidence. Shrikantji has erected an invincible fort against these Western "Indologists" and beaten them at their own game. I have not seen one instance of a Western "expert" refuting Shrikantji's points logically. Mostly, these folk just pretend to ignore Shrikant Talageri -- because they just don't have anything in their quivers to counter his arguments.
@@hkumar7340 You have misunderstood my comment. I am in no way taking away any of the credit he deserves. I completely agree with you that his findings are invincible. However, it is one thing to remain silent on the spiritual content of the Vedas, and it is entirely another thing to explicitly say that they don't contain any spiritual teachings. In this very video he has explicitly said that the rishis were merely worldly poets writing mere poetry for materialistic gains. This is blatantly wrong, and it is unnecessary and inconsistent with his published work. If he has avoided discussion of the spiritual content of the Vedas in his published work, why bring it up here and provide wrong opinion? It actually sounds like he has genuinely imbibed the western viewpoint that the Vedic hymns were primitive poetry.
Well I will suggest to read up this guy's work: www.academia.edu/27780697/The_Chronology_of_Ancient_India_Victim_of_Concoctions_and_Distortions_by_Vedveer_Arya
i too like his approach which is logical. i think he has fairly taken all evidence and got good Dating. even if his claim is falsified, i rejoice the amount of work he done and methodology. got his three books.
@@raghavarvoltore6517 That work also a copy of an earlier work by Shri Kota Venkatachelam. Nothing new in it. His date of Mahabharata is also incorrect
I was also thinking it might be the truth.But if you examine the archeological evidence of Mahabharata to be roughly around 3100BCE from the Aihole inscriptions in Karnataka by the Chalukyan dynasty.
actually he was making a very good case for his OIT, until he started limiting it to 3000 BC for some strange reason and also rejected the astronomical aspect which would infact had strengthened OIT, now if he rejects astronomical aspects as mythical how sure he is that saraswati is not mythical? date for saraswati drying is 3800 BC if one rejects saraswati, the case even for native vedic language weakens not just OIT, and also, he argues that there was a parent PIE even before vedic language, then how does he explain the existence of PIE within the time frame of presence of vedic language even though he proposes PIE language?
You have a valid point. Please read this book, it explains most of India's chronology. www.academia.edu/27780697/The_Chronology_of_Ancient_India_Victim_of_Concoctions_and_Distortions_by_Vedveer_Arya
Shrikant and the podcaster are making fun of our tradition that states Vedas are of divine origin and laudatory of western dating which tradition vehemently opposes. Shrikant makes careless mentions like "Aryan" languages. Tradition does not confirm the existence of Aryans so why call it an Aryan language? If Vedas had southern words does it not occur to you that Southern languages also find origin in a form of Sanskrit of some timeframe? If you are ignorant about research on the etymology of southern words and existing research that just makes you ignorant nothing else. If Shrikant wants traditional scholars to respect his views contrary, we also expect him to look at non-western arguments on Vedas etc of traditional scholars with respect. The racism is an imported idea and if some took to it, dont attack the whole community. It is the same Brahmins who kept the Vedas alive that you refer today. Shrikant also makes baseless allegation and conspiracy theories on Tamil Brahmins. You grossly misrepresent opponets views which is very malicious. Brahmasutra bashya by Shankaracharya is very clear that one need not follow Vedas to be enlighted. This malicious attack is reprehensible. You still follow western framework and make fun of Indians who still stick to the tradition. That is no way to be an objective researcher. A lot of branches of Vedas are lost, you cant make a claim based on absence of evidence! Thank you for exposing this. Ayyo devre he still refers Aryans - funny!
Excellent, as ever, even though the accent is occasionally too strong for a Briton like me; the interview also examples the need not to talk to someone on a much lower level who will constantly chirp uselessly and irritatingly.
The problem with Mr. Shrikant Talegeri is that even he is not clear on what exactly is his Claim or Stand!! Hence not surprising that the audience IS ALSO LOST AND CONFUSED AND HENCE NOONE SUPPORTS HIM EITHER IN LEFT OR RIGHT fence.... Mr. Talegeri - 1st thing u sud is that u MUST make ur stand or claim clear..... just trying to show all others are wrong doesn't automatically make u right....
There is Nothings called DRAVIDIAN LANGUAGE HISTORICALLY.... Dravida historically was merely a geographical location (like Anga, Vanga, Kalinga etc) around the border areas of today's Andhra Pradesh and Tamil Nadu...... Nothing More Nothing Less.....
Mr. Shrikant Talegeri.... u just think that Archeology is mere DIRT-ARCHEOLOGY (Digging of earth and finding remains)..... Archealogy is a much more vast and multi-faceted than that.... I laugh at ur ignorance.... Trying to prove everything just on basis of Linguistics is a VERY STUPID IDEA.... Don't u think so.....
SUMMATION - Mr. Shrikant Talegeri - u come across as some lazy person who hasn;t even himself read Vedas or Mahabharta.... u seem to have mere read the Western Liguistics and trying to peddle some shallow gyaan basis that.... 🤣🤣🤣
Why can't we believe that the Dravidians & Aryans have same forefathers? They belonged to same parents was taught to me by my elders.There are Dravidian traces in Kashmir also.
Dravida is south region (meaning peninsula). Gowda is north. Before Panini many grammarians existed and Panini listed their names. Indra first created Sanskrit grammar. That version of the grammar is followed in Tamil. Talageri should explain the story of devendra kula vellalar and reconcile.
why tribes don't move to east or south of india when ever i listen oit then they always tell us about people going west ward please tell us about this also
There were many tribes that moved east and south, but they are not mentioned in Rigveda since Rigveda for a large part is a Puru centric book and documents their early spread. However Puranas, which unlike Rigveda were not contemporary to the stories they contain do mention some of these migrations for example the expansion of the Ikshvakus to east to the bay of Bengal by king Sagara. The southward expansion into Gujarat and Maharashtra was mostly carried by the Yadus. There is also a migration of Andhras mentioned in Aitareya Brahmana from the banks of Yamuna to the Deccan where they assimilated into the local proto-Telugu speakers. As time progressed there was intense cultural contact between the north and the south carried out by migration of priests, professionals and artisans. Thrown in some royal marriages for securing alliances and you end up with right conditions for linguistic sharing and borrowing. If you read Talageri's work you will see that he does mention some of that. However OIT proponents naturally and justly focus on the westward expansion since that refutes AIT. Also, the most ancient of the literary evidences i.e. Rigveda does not mention a southward expansion.
It's amazing discussion but some doubts- 1. The existence of Vedas or Aryans is based only on linguistic theory and all have accepted it. 2. Buddhism and Jainism have linguistics (Pali & Prakrit), archeological, (Asoka rock edicts in Palil) and historical evidences but you suspected on them. 3. Such Goebelism is not fair enough.
I think Mr shrikant has over simplify things as per his understanding or just to prove his findings right , the philosophical text in jainism were recorded far later then philosophy of hindusim. But he has plainly said that hindusim may have borrowed philosophy from jainism. Jains themself dont believe this. I think he went overboard while debunking aryan invasion theory
I am not sure but is the concept of non-vegetarianism taken from Jainism? Because in vedic period they used to kill animals. Rama was going to kill the deer in the jungle, were they eating meat in the jungle? Even today in many temples goat meat is distributed as prasad. So it was not a restriction earlier I guess. What do you think about this?
This is a great discussion. However, I request you, sir, to kindly not generalize a population such as 'Maharashtra brahmins' or 'Tamil Brahmins' based on the literary works of a few writers. Literature isn't quantitative data. Your discussion is a subjectivist view is based on the qualitative research methods, the analysis of which I find slightly biased in parts. While I respect your writing, this bias makes me question its reliability. Rig Veda seems to have been the philosophical foundation for a lot of the Trans-Regional Indo-Iranian belt of cultures and civilizations and stretching as far as kingdoms like the Hurrians, Mitanni, and Hittites near the Mediterranean. It's beautiful that ancient languages such as Greek, Avestan and Sanskrit brings us closer than divide us.
Iam a Tamil Brahmin who studied in Germany. For many years, I have interacted with Iranians and have lot of Irani friends. Many Germans think I'm a Iranian and after learning about close relation between Avesta and Sanskrit, I m in more of a conclusion that brahmin could have migrated from Persian peninsula
Zebu cattle which mentioned many times in Vedas originated in indus valley area today Pakistan and from there it's spreads to Afghanistan and Iran,in avestan texts Iranians mentioned that they came from harasawt region or hemland region so Aryans migrated from India to perisa with their cattle not the other way around even today people in core area of Arya region of punjab, western Uttar Pradesh and Haryana had Vedic god names of Indrajeet,mainder etc and mostly kill any one just to save cattle as they feel it as gomata.
@@dharmendra629 but the place they mention in rig Veda and Avesta is mount Meru(mount Kailash?). They came down from there when the ice began to melt and after a fight between devas and asuras, asura was thrown out from here. And when they mention the Sarasvati river, it makes it clear that they were inhabitants of Bharat. After the saraswati river dried out, out of India migration happened. So no, they did not come from outside but moved away from here because of tribal wars (read battle of 21 kings and then 10kings in rig veda) and finally the drying of saraswati river in 1900 bce.
He himself says that the ritual and Soma cutlure is copied from North via Druhyus. Later they Copied Jain/Buddhist philosophies/tales/AyurVeda/Gupta era Maths. Only copy business.
@@benefactor4309 assimilation to such an extent that they claim Ayur ved to be theirs now. In South India , Ayur ved is called 'Prakriti Vaidyam' (nature cure) which definitely not is not a Vedic concept.
😂😂 what he said about tamil brahmins is so correct they tend to form superiority groups , due to lack of understanding .. brahmins were the first wokes. so they can claim they are founders of wokeism
@@ameynamjoshi741 look at all the left leaning journalist they are all upper caste Muslims it Hindus .pity Is they bring up their kids in same way you will realise it when you meet some of them in US 🤣🤣
वेद = Veda, सोम = soma. वेद् = ved (incorrect) सोम् = som (incorrect). In Sanskrit you don't cut off the end vowel, you always pronounce it unless there is a halanta sign (्)
@@vijayjosh5895 No you're not getting it. Please write how you will pronounce वेद and सोम by writing the equivalent in English alphabet. Just like I did above... वेद = Veda, सोम = soma
Lots of errors by shrikant talageri - horses are mentioned in a sense in the earlier mandalas (usha compared to being pulled by horse etc). I think talageri is totally wrong to ignore the overwhelming genetic evidence but then i believe talageri seems more of a fanatic (not open to reason) than a genuine scholar
Latest genetic evidence too now indicates that Eurpeans are descendants of tribes migrated from Afghanistan and Azerbajain area. Afghanistan was part of India cultrurally.
Amazing work. Shrīkānta Tālagerī's work should be used for further investigation. This will give more insights and conclusions.
Shrikanth Talageri is the man this country should celebrate, truth is the highest virtue in our lands and Talageri is the embodiment of truth.
India (should be called Bharati) is a ocean of cultures, languages and its so ancient as human kind's history itself.
Every time we dig our roots, we found mind blowing information. Much listen session 👍👍. I will surely read this book shown in cover. Shrikant ji 🙏🏼🙏🏼
Awesome discussion, hats off to you Shrikanth Sir! Bowled over by your subject matter expertise and even more inspiring to see you stand up against the crooks who peddle political ideologies as truth and history! Kushal as a host made the conversation engaging and fascinating, thanks to both of you!!
Great work Kushal ! Just started following your work and your other AMT related podcasts . Have added them to my To- Listen list .
Always pleasure to listen to Shrikant Talageri. He never goes overboard with any of his theories.
My douts about the chronology of vedas...is cleared to a maximum extent today...thank u srikant sir...
New podcast should be there in light of Rakhigadhi and sanouli excavation , where the chariots were found .
AIT or AMT sounds more like “jiski lathi uski bhais”. If instead of Europeans, any East Asian people like Chinese or Japanese had invaded and colonized India, and came up with the Buddhist Invasion theory, our then scholars would have believed them as well.
Hats off to Shrikant Talegiri Ji
बहुत ही सार्थक वार्ता 🙏
I remember reading that the Roma and their language made European experts wonder the connection between Indian and European Languages
But Talageri only harps on European and North India. There are lot of connections with Burma and Asia. David Frawley explains Vedas have lot of references to oceans. If central asia is the epicenter, then the ocean references don't make sense.
@@indieboy1033 Ok
@@indieboy1033 elaborate more
Watching this after the latest 3 part podcast with Talageri ji in Sept 2021. 🙏
incredibly fascinating!
Rigved 2:18:1 mai रथ shabd aaya h aur indus valley civilization me bhi horse k proof mile hai.
Talageri is Konkani Saraswat like me. In Konkani language we call the water carrying pots Ghagar. This may have been derived from the river Ghaggar-Hakra which is now identified with Sarasvati, and Saraswats are people who migrated from the banks of Sarasvati when it dried up. So identity of Sarasvati with present day Ghagar-Hakra may have some truth to it. As Talageri mentioned Konkani people are the only one who use udaak for water, and Konkani may have retained older connections more faithfully.
And Dali tauy, of course. I think toya is also water.
Ghaggar river's name is some regional derivation of "gharghara" meaning to make sound as the water flows through the rocks. It has nothing to do with ghaagar meaning pot.
Everything Talageri says is correct except one thing. He denies the spiritual tradition of RgVeda which is not true. There is a lot of philosophy in Rg Veda. The RgVeda without philosophy is a wrong notion.
He said the earlier books (Manadals) of rig veda has very little about philosophy,
The means Most of the philosophy is in the books 1, 8 & 10,
Loved this talk very informative
What is proto Indo European. No language found yet.
Please give details of publisher from where I can obtain the book written by Mr. Srikant Taligiri
Govt needs to do veda and avesta research. Lot of things can be connected and concluded.
Eye opening! Dhanyosmi!
Although I highly respect Shrikant Talageri for his pioneering research into disproving the Aryan Invasion Theory, at some point it feels as though he has also imbibed much of the western view of the Vedas as mere mundane worldly poetry asking for material gains from the gods, devoid of any spiritual ideas or philosophy (he said this in so many words here). On the contrary, there is a long tradition of exegesis that shows the immense symbolism and philosophy in the Rig Veda samhita itself, and it is very clear that the Rig Veda samhita has influenced the Upanishads and all subsequent philosophy in India, including Buddhism and Jainism. The Rig Veda samhita contains the seeds of all later Indian philosophy. Unfortunate that a scholar such as Talageri has to strip the Rig Veda of its main purpose. He should integrate his work with the wholistic tradition as well.
No, I think this comment misrepresents Shrikantji's work, and the purpose behind his work. Western "scholars" dismiss any and all analysis by Hindu intellectuals as not "rigorous", not "scholarly" and as "religiously inspired." These foreign "scholars" pretend that, while their analyses are purely empirical and evidence-based, Hindus are too "emotional" and "irrational" when discussing about the Vedas etc. due to their religious faith. Shrikantji has chosen the right way to fight these tricksters -- he has avoided any discussion about the philosophical/religious content of the Vedas, and focused purely on the linguistic evidence. Shrikantji has erected an invincible fort against these Western "Indologists" and beaten them at their own game. I have not seen one instance of a Western "expert" refuting Shrikantji's points logically. Mostly, these folk just pretend to ignore Shrikant Talageri -- because they just don't have anything in their quivers to counter his arguments.
@@hkumar7340 You have misunderstood my comment. I am in no way taking away any of the credit he deserves. I completely agree with you that his findings are invincible. However, it is one thing to remain silent on the spiritual content of the Vedas, and it is entirely another thing to explicitly say that they don't contain any spiritual teachings. In this very video he has explicitly said that the rishis were merely worldly poets writing mere poetry for materialistic gains. This is blatantly wrong, and it is unnecessary and inconsistent with his published work. If he has avoided discussion of the spiritual content of the Vedas in his published work, why bring it up here and provide wrong opinion? It actually sounds like he has genuinely imbibed the western viewpoint that the Vedic hymns were primitive poetry.
With fullest respect to Mr Shrikant Telagiri, I will still believe that Nilesh Oak astronomical references are more or less correct.
Well I will suggest to read up this guy's work:
www.academia.edu/27780697/The_Chronology_of_Ancient_India_Victim_of_Concoctions_and_Distortions_by_Vedveer_Arya
i too like his approach which is logical. i think he has fairly taken all evidence and got good Dating. even if his claim is falsified, i rejoice the amount of work he done and methodology. got his three books.
@@raghavarvoltore6517
That work also a copy of an earlier work by Shri Kota Venkatachelam. Nothing new in it. His date of Mahabharata is also incorrect
I was also thinking it might be the truth.But if you examine the archeological evidence of Mahabharata to be roughly around 3100BCE from the Aihole inscriptions in Karnataka by the Chalukyan dynasty.
@@rudramath5949
Archeological evidence also points to 5600BC. Aihole inscriptions are not based on the Mahabharat rather the Surya Siddhanta.
Such a scholarly discourse !!
Talageri never uses ad hominem like many others. He could be wrong on some aspects but he has logical thread.
Important necessary evidence based historicity. Well done
Would love to see a panel discussion with scholars like Talgeri maam, Nilesh Oak and others.
Talageri ji is not a woman 🥲
Who is Talageri to say that RigVeda has no philosophy ? Read Sri Aurobindo's version of Rig Veda.
sanch Sanchayan he is a bank Clark
@@benefactor4309 I stand corrected. Shrikant Talageri's work is brilliant but I disagree with only one aspect that the RgVeda has no philosophy.
He says the oldest version has very little philosophy.But,the later ones definitely has philosophy in it.
Pls. Make hindi edition sir
actually he was making a very good case for his OIT, until he started limiting it to 3000 BC for some strange reason and also rejected the astronomical aspect which would infact had strengthened OIT, now if he rejects astronomical aspects as mythical how sure he is that saraswati is not mythical? date for saraswati drying is 3800 BC if one rejects saraswati, the case even for native vedic language weakens not just OIT, and also, he argues that there was a parent PIE even before vedic language, then how does he explain the existence of PIE within the time frame of presence of vedic language even though he proposes PIE language?
Saraswati dried by 2000 BCE.
You have a valid point. Please read this book, it explains most of India's chronology.
www.academia.edu/27780697/The_Chronology_of_Ancient_India_Victim_of_Concoctions_and_Distortions_by_Vedveer_Arya
Sarasvati dried gradually through 2000 bce to 1000 bce
fascinating
Yes I also read sankhya yog
51.11 he is talking abt nilesh oak
Denouncing Nilesh with no astronomical reference is complete bullshit.
Shrikant and the podcaster are making fun of our tradition that states Vedas are of divine origin and laudatory of western dating which tradition vehemently opposes. Shrikant makes
careless mentions like "Aryan" languages. Tradition does not confirm the existence of Aryans so why call it an Aryan language? If Vedas had southern words does it not occur to you that Southern languages also find origin in a form of Sanskrit of some timeframe? If you are ignorant about research on the etymology of southern words and existing research that just makes you ignorant nothing else. If Shrikant wants traditional scholars to respect his views contrary, we also expect him to look at non-western arguments on Vedas etc of traditional scholars with respect. The racism is an imported idea and if some took to it, dont attack the whole community. It is the same Brahmins who kept the Vedas alive that you refer today. Shrikant also makes baseless allegation and conspiracy theories on Tamil Brahmins. You grossly misrepresent opponets views which is very malicious. Brahmasutra bashya by Shankaracharya is very clear that one need not follow Vedas to be enlighted. This malicious attack is reprehensible. You still follow western framework and make fun of Indians who still stick to the tradition. That is no way to be an objective researcher. A lot of branches of Vedas are lost, you cant make a claim based on absence of evidence! Thank you for exposing this. Ayyo devre he still refers Aryans - funny!
Awesome
Excellent, as ever, even though the accent is occasionally too strong for a Briton like me; the interview also examples the need not to talk to someone on a much lower level who will constantly chirp uselessly and irritatingly.
Change the playback speed to slow it down and voice will become more clear, as speaker speaks a little rapid in parts...makes easier to understand..
Aryan migrated from Central Asia to Iran and India.
Avesta and Rig Veda have very similarities both are Aryan book.
The problem with Mr. Shrikant Talegeri is that even he is not clear on what exactly is his Claim or Stand!! Hence not surprising that the audience IS ALSO LOST AND CONFUSED AND HENCE NOONE SUPPORTS HIM EITHER IN LEFT OR RIGHT fence....
Mr. Talegeri - 1st thing u sud is that u MUST make ur stand or claim clear..... just trying to show all others are wrong doesn't automatically make u right....
There is Nothings called DRAVIDIAN LANGUAGE HISTORICALLY.... Dravida historically was merely a geographical location (like Anga, Vanga, Kalinga etc) around the border areas of today's Andhra Pradesh and Tamil Nadu......
Nothing More Nothing Less.....
Mr. Shrikant Talegeri.... u just think that Archeology is mere DIRT-ARCHEOLOGY (Digging of earth and finding remains)..... Archealogy is a much more vast and multi-faceted than that.... I laugh at ur ignorance....
Trying to prove everything just on basis of Linguistics is a VERY STUPID IDEA.... Don't u think so.....
ur 1 line .... Sarayu ... not this one.... but the one in Afganistan...... MADE ME LAUGH..... What exactly is ur evidence for ur BALONEY.....
SUMMATION - Mr. Shrikant Talegeri - u come across as some lazy person who hasn;t even himself read Vedas or Mahabharta.... u seem to have mere read the Western Liguistics and trying to peddle some shallow gyaan basis that.... 🤣🤣🤣
🙏🏻
Why can't we believe that the Dravidians & Aryans have same forefathers? They belonged to same parents was taught to me by my elders.There are Dravidian traces in Kashmir also.
Dravida is south region (meaning peninsula). Gowda is north. Before Panini many grammarians existed and Panini listed their names. Indra first created Sanskrit grammar. That version of the grammar is followed in Tamil. Talageri should explain the story of devendra kula vellalar and reconcile.
why tribes don't move to east or south of india when ever i listen oit then they always tell us about people going west ward please tell us about this also
dheeraj pimoli
Many many many tribes from India mode to the east. Please check Stephen Oppenheimer's work for more information.
dheeraj pimoli They also moved to eastward, thats why east and south Indian languages have more than 50% Sanskrit words.
There were many tribes that moved east and south, but they are not mentioned in Rigveda since Rigveda for a large part is a Puru centric book and documents their early spread. However Puranas, which unlike Rigveda were not contemporary to the stories they contain do mention some of these migrations for example the expansion of the Ikshvakus to east to the bay of Bengal by king Sagara. The southward expansion into Gujarat and Maharashtra was mostly carried by the Yadus. There is also a migration of Andhras mentioned in Aitareya Brahmana from the banks of Yamuna to the Deccan where they assimilated into the local proto-Telugu speakers. As time progressed there was intense cultural contact between the north and the south carried out by migration of priests, professionals and artisans. Thrown in some royal marriages for securing alliances and you end up with right conditions for linguistic sharing and borrowing.
If you read Talageri's work you will see that he does mention some of that. However OIT proponents naturally and justly focus on the westward expansion since that refutes AIT. Also, the most ancient of the literary evidences i.e. Rigveda does not mention a southward expansion.
Beacause movement is uni directional , see south has the oceans and north and Himalayas
It's amazing discussion but some doubts-
1. The existence of Vedas or Aryans is based only on linguistic theory and all have accepted it.
2. Buddhism and Jainism have linguistics (Pali & Prakrit), archeological, (Asoka rock edicts in Palil) and historical evidences but you suspected on them.
3. Such Goebelism is not fair enough.
I think Mr shrikant has over simplify things as per his understanding or just to prove his findings right , the philosophical text in jainism were recorded far later then philosophy of hindusim. But he has plainly said that hindusim may have borrowed philosophy from jainism. Jains themself dont believe this. I think he went overboard while debunking aryan invasion theory
Exactly! Spot on.
I am not sure but is the concept of non-vegetarianism taken from Jainism? Because in vedic period they used to kill animals. Rama was going to kill the deer in the jungle, were they eating meat in the jungle? Even today in many temples goat meat is distributed as prasad. So it was not a restriction earlier I guess. What do you think about this?
Please make it in hindi
This is a great discussion. However, I request you, sir, to kindly not generalize a population such as 'Maharashtra brahmins' or 'Tamil Brahmins' based on the literary works of a few writers. Literature isn't quantitative data. Your discussion is a subjectivist view is based on the qualitative research methods, the analysis of which I find slightly biased in parts. While I respect your writing, this bias makes me question its reliability. Rig Veda seems to have been the philosophical foundation for a lot of the Trans-Regional Indo-Iranian belt of cultures and civilizations and stretching as far as kingdoms like the Hurrians, Mitanni, and Hittites near the Mediterranean. It's beautiful that ancient languages such as Greek, Avestan and Sanskrit brings us closer than divide us.
Discussion digressed from original subject halfway for some time.
Talegiri is Confusing with talking nonsense.
Misleading Title..... this video talks hardly 1 min about Avesta..... 👎👎👎
Iam a Tamil Brahmin who studied in Germany. For many years, I have interacted with Iranians and have lot of Irani friends. Many Germans think I'm a Iranian and after learning about close relation between Avesta and Sanskrit, I m in more of a conclusion that brahmin could have migrated from Persian peninsula
Zebu cattle which mentioned many times in Vedas originated in indus valley area today Pakistan and from there it's spreads to Afghanistan and Iran,in avestan texts Iranians mentioned that they came from harasawt region or hemland region so Aryans migrated from India to perisa with their cattle not the other way around even today people in core area of Arya region of punjab, western Uttar Pradesh and Haryana had Vedic god names of Indrajeet,mainder etc and mostly kill any one just to save cattle as they feel it as gomata.
We migrated from indus Valley and move forward to Afghanistan and then Iran and the tribe which settled there was parsi not the other way around.
Aryan migrated from Central Asia to Iran and India.
Avesta and Rig Veda have very similarities both are Aryan book.
@@dharmendra629 but the place they mention in rig Veda and Avesta is mount Meru(mount Kailash?). They came down from there when the ice began to melt and after a fight between devas and asuras, asura was thrown out from here. And when they mention the Sarasvati river, it makes it clear that they were inhabitants of Bharat. After the saraswati river dried out, out of India migration happened.
So no, they did not come from outside but moved away from here because of tribal wars (read battle of 21 kings and then 10kings in rig veda) and finally the drying of saraswati river in 1900 bce.
He himself says that the ritual and Soma cutlure is copied from North via Druhyus. Later they Copied Jain/Buddhist philosophies/tales/AyurVeda/Gupta era Maths. Only copy business.
Assimilation and copying me anter hai
@@benefactor4309 assimilation to such an extent that they claim Ayur ved to be theirs now. In South India , Ayur ved is called 'Prakriti Vaidyam' (nature cure) which definitely not is not a Vedic concept.
Urdu and Hindi are same language artificially divided.
😂😂 what he said about tamil brahmins is so correct they tend to form superiority groups , due to lack of understanding .. brahmins were the first wokes. so they can claim they are founders of wokeism
Brahmins that are wokes are not brahmins at all
@@ameynamjoshi741 look at all the left leaning journalist they are all upper caste Muslims it Hindus .pity Is they bring up their kids in same way you will realise it when you meet some of them in US 🤣🤣
Brahmins was smart they slowly study Buddhism and mix it with their books and captured it completely.
😂
Ye kuch naya leke aye hai. Aur kuch sir? Vedas bhi budhha ke ane ke bad hi likhe honge?
@@hmmmm4193 yes you are right. Sach hai kadwa hai.
@@PankajKumar21 budhha kab aye? Vedas kab likhe gye? Give me the years with proofs.
@@hmmmm4193 first you give me proof rigved
वेदा, सोमा is wrong. It should be वेद, सोम.
वेद = Veda, सोम = soma. वेद् = ved (incorrect) सोम् = som (incorrect). In Sanskrit you don't cut off the end vowel, you always pronounce it unless there is a halanta sign (्)
@@greatbalance I repeat वेद सोम is correct, not वेदा, सोमा. Get it?
@@vijayjosh5895 If you want to me "get it", please write the phonetic equivalent of your words like I did. Then we'll see if I get it.
@@greatbalance What phonetic? I have written them in their original format, should be enough. Btw, same for Rama, Krishna..OK?
@@vijayjosh5895 No you're not getting it. Please write how you will pronounce वेद and सोम by writing the equivalent in English alphabet. Just like I did above... वेद = Veda, सोम = soma
Next Devdutt Patnaik!
But it is true that republic of india first made by buddha and after that chandragupta maurya .
😂😂🤣🤣😂
@@SB-gl5mm what
Republic india made by gautama 🤣
@@SB-gl5mm if you asked me how then I could explained you but you shows your limited mental ability . Now I can laugh on you.
@@PankajKumar21 then explain me bro knowledge alway first
Lots of errors by shrikant talageri - horses are mentioned in a sense in the earlier mandalas (usha compared to being pulled by horse etc). I think talageri is totally wrong to ignore the overwhelming genetic evidence but then i believe talageri seems more of a fanatic (not open to reason) than a genuine scholar
Latest genetic evidence too now indicates that Eurpeans are descendants of tribes migrated from Afghanistan and Azerbajain area. Afghanistan was part of India cultrurally.
Genetics must be taken with Archaeology, linguistics and Textual evidences. It all points to India by the way...
Leftist Spotted!
Gurjant Singh AIT is about languages not people .... people carry languages but the DNA cannot tell u the language of the person
@@tamashbeen6610 please provide references of these studies
Amazing Goebbellic work.