Everyone in these comments giving knowledge claims against the Bible sadly has no way of justifying ANY of their knowledge claims - and yet they will continue to do so. "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge" -Proverbs 1:7. Amen.
“Apologists are just there to take advantage of you, telling you what you want to hear when the evidence tells you otherwise. The sheer existence of apologists is reason alone to raise suspicion. Their dishonesty is blatant when you simply double check what they say. In the end, historians and scientists are not just one big conspiracy against Jesus, the Bible is simply wrong about most things.” -Joseph R. Hanson
You quote "The sheer existence of apologists is reason alone to raise suspicion." Logic of reasoning: the existence of something is reason alone their argument doesn't exist. I guess that means neither Joseph R. Hanson nor yours nor my existence is reason to believe anything we say has meaning either.
@@FirstOlive2018 Hello brother. It's taken me a long time to realize that you just have to treat scoffers like trolls or bots. Which is what they are. Creation alone proves God's existence yet some believe some goo created everything. They only exist because Satan uses them to cause discord. Just like what you do with a whirling dervishes. Let em whirl! 🙏👍🙏
"But admitting for the sake of a case, that something has been revealed to a certain person, and not revealed to any other person, it is revelation to that person only. When he tells it to a second person, a second to a third, a third to a fourth, and so on, it ceases to be revelation to all those persons. It is revelation to the first person only, and hearsay to every other, and consequently they are not obliged to believe it." Thomas Paine
I don't really understand the relevance of this quote. When something is publicised, written, announced or otherwise, then it is surely no longer hearsay as defined in this statement of Paine's? It does not belong to the category, "revealed to a certain person, and not revealed to any other person, it is revelation to that person only". If someone publishes a biography of Einstein, then he or she is revealing something about Einstein, is that not correct? It's in a different category. The Bible is a public document, was preserved through centuries and millenia as a public document and is still printed as a public document. The quote seems irrelevant to me.
When Paine referred to the word "revealed", I think he was speaking on the idea that the bible is reported/claimed to be god's revealed word to individuals. If something is written down about Einstein, maybe something no one knew, then yes that would be a revealing of something no one knew, and yet could possibly have been accessible to anyone willing to do the work to find out about it...instead of a biblical version where god reveals himself only to his chosen prophets. But something we do know is that Einstein was real. God, well that's just speculation and assertion. So when a statement is made that the bible is god's revealed word, well , we are not obligated to believe it, because it wasn't revealed to us, and especially because there are no good reasons to believe in a god.
"Once one admits that the bible is a collection of diverse, even clashing theologies, unreliable narratives, failed prophecies, etc., it becomes inevitably clear that its commandments can no longer be taken as the unadulterated oracles of God. All of them are shaped, even vitiated, by their historical and cultural conditioning. "Inspiration " becomes an empty honorific, like the word "Holy" embossed on the cover of printed bibles. It adds nothing: it means nothing. And thus we are left, like it or not, with the purely and merely human bible." -Robert M. Price
Thanks for the explanation. I seriously don’t have a problem with Paine’s unbelief, that’s his free choice and I have to respect that. But if his reason for his unbelief is as he stated then he’s got the wrong category; he's rejecting on the wrong basis. You cannot, for example, read the opening remarks of Luke and think Luke is writing hearsay. You could call Luke a deluded liar, but I would like to have good reason to think that. In terms of, “God, well that’s just speculation and assertion” - well, I’d argue not if the death and resurrection of Christ is true. Everything turns on Jesus Christ, and strangely enough, all the Old and New Testament point to him.
Regarding Bob Price, I’ve heard him a few times. I respect his perspective though I don’t agree with him. One thing I confident of is this though: “The grass withers and the flowers fall, but the word of our God endures for ever”. I’m absolutely confident that long after you, and I, and Bob Price are gone the Scriptures will endure. It will continue to exert influence, it will continue to give hope, and it will continue to save people for eternity.This is not a failed prophecy.
Repent and forsake your sins. TRUST in JESUS Christ and his sacrifice on the cross. There is coming a day when the LORD will judge the world in righteousness. Hell awaits all sinners including lukewarm christians. JESUS says go and sin no more so if you loved HIM you would OBEY HIM.
HE KEEPS ON SAYING THE BIBLE IS THE WORD OF GOD WTHOUTH PRESENTING ANY EVIDENCE OR PROOF. ARE WE JUST GOING TO TAKE YOUR WORD AND BLINDLY FOLLOW YOU? THANK “GOD” MY MIND HAS BEEN OPENED. I AM NOW AN AGNOSTIC. I HAVE BEEN SAVED FROM THE BONDAGE OF CHRISTIANITY. HALLELUIA!!!
@Carl Williams GOTCHA! I have read 5 books of Bart D. Ehrman and probably watched every single TH-cam videos of him. You use Bart to support your claim for the existence of Jesus. What you fail to state is that Bart is an ex Christian turned atheist. Yes, he believes in a historical Jesus. A man who once walked the earth but is now dead.
@Carl Williams The EX blind man Jesus supposedly healed wasnt actually blind in the first place because if he were a genuinely blind person it was not possible for him to be able to see afterwards. It was actually a scam both of them planned in advance to deceive the onlookers.
If you believe the bible is true and infallible then you have to believe that your god thinks that it is OK to own a person as property, be able to pass on that ownership to your children, and be able to beat them almost to death. What an abhorrent book.
The message of the Cross is foolishness to those who are perishing!!... but to us who are being saved it is the power of God!!!!!
God bless
Everyone in these comments giving knowledge claims against the Bible sadly has no way of justifying ANY of their knowledge claims - and yet they will continue to do so. "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge" -Proverbs 1:7. Amen.
Amen my brother....
Which bible is the word of god?
The holy bible, original manuscript copies and translations - kjv, nasb, esv
bob polo there are no origionals.
tim sturm - *Copies
bob polo which ONES?
tim sturm - I don't understand the question
“Apologists are just there to take advantage of you, telling you what you want to hear when the evidence tells you otherwise. The sheer existence of apologists is reason alone to raise suspicion. Their dishonesty is blatant when you simply double check what they say. In the end, historians and scientists are not just one big conspiracy against Jesus, the Bible is simply wrong about most things.”
-Joseph R. Hanson
The fool says in his heart that there is no God.
You quote "The sheer existence of apologists is reason alone to raise suspicion." Logic of reasoning: the existence of something is reason alone their argument doesn't exist. I guess that means neither Joseph R. Hanson nor yours nor my existence is reason to believe anything we say has meaning either.
@@FirstOlive2018 Hello brother. It's taken me a long time to realize that you just have to treat scoffers like trolls or bots. Which is what they are. Creation alone proves God's existence yet some believe some goo created everything. They only exist because Satan uses them to cause discord. Just like what you do with a whirling dervishes. Let em whirl! 🙏👍🙏
"But admitting for the sake of a case, that something has been revealed to a certain person, and not revealed to any other person, it is revelation to that person only. When he tells it to a second person, a second to a third, a third to a fourth, and so on, it ceases to be revelation to all those persons. It is revelation to the first person only, and hearsay to every other, and consequently they are not obliged to believe it." Thomas Paine
I don't really understand the relevance of this quote. When something is publicised, written, announced or otherwise, then it is surely no longer hearsay as defined in this statement of Paine's? It does not belong to the category, "revealed to a certain person, and not revealed to any other person, it is revelation to that person only". If someone publishes a biography of Einstein, then he or she is revealing something about Einstein, is that not correct? It's in a different category. The Bible is a public document, was preserved through centuries and millenia as a public document and is still printed as a public document. The quote seems irrelevant to me.
When Paine referred to the word "revealed", I think he was speaking on the idea that the bible is reported/claimed to be god's revealed word to individuals. If something is written down about Einstein, maybe something no one knew, then yes that would be a revealing of something no one knew, and yet could possibly have been accessible to anyone willing to do the work to find out about it...instead of a biblical version where god reveals himself only to his chosen prophets. But something we do know is that Einstein was real. God, well that's just speculation and assertion. So when a statement is made that the bible is god's revealed word, well , we are not obligated to believe it, because it wasn't revealed to us, and especially because there are no good reasons to believe in a god.
"Once one admits that the bible is a collection of diverse, even clashing theologies, unreliable narratives, failed prophecies, etc., it becomes inevitably clear that its commandments can no longer be taken as the unadulterated oracles of God. All of them are shaped, even vitiated, by their historical and cultural conditioning. "Inspiration " becomes an empty honorific, like the word "Holy" embossed on the cover of printed bibles. It adds nothing: it means nothing. And thus we are left, like it or not, with the purely and merely human bible."
-Robert M. Price
Thanks for the explanation. I seriously don’t have a problem with Paine’s unbelief, that’s his free choice and I have to respect that. But if his reason for his unbelief is as he stated then he’s got the wrong category; he's rejecting on the wrong basis. You cannot, for example, read the opening remarks of Luke and think Luke is writing hearsay. You could call Luke a deluded liar, but I would like to have good reason to think that. In terms of, “God, well that’s just speculation and assertion” - well, I’d argue not if the death and resurrection of Christ is true. Everything turns on Jesus Christ, and strangely enough, all the Old and New Testament point to him.
Regarding Bob Price, I’ve heard him a few times. I respect his perspective though I don’t agree with him. One thing I confident of is this though: “The grass withers and the flowers fall, but the word of our God endures for ever”. I’m absolutely confident that long after you, and I, and Bob Price are gone the Scriptures will endure. It will continue to exert influence, it will continue to give hope, and it will continue to save people for eternity.This is not a failed prophecy.
Repent and forsake your sins. TRUST in JESUS Christ and his sacrifice on the cross. There is coming a day when the LORD will judge the world in righteousness. Hell awaits all sinners including lukewarm christians. JESUS says go and sin no more so if you loved HIM you would OBEY HIM.
HE KEEPS ON SAYING THE BIBLE IS THE WORD OF GOD WTHOUTH PRESENTING ANY EVIDENCE OR PROOF. ARE WE JUST GOING TO TAKE YOUR WORD AND BLINDLY FOLLOW YOU? THANK “GOD” MY MIND HAS BEEN OPENED. I AM NOW AN AGNOSTIC. I HAVE BEEN SAVED FROM THE BONDAGE OF CHRISTIANITY. HALLELUIA!!!
@Carl Williams GOTCHA! I have read 5 books of Bart D. Ehrman and probably watched every single TH-cam videos of him. You use Bart to support your claim for the existence of Jesus. What you fail to state is that Bart is an ex Christian turned atheist. Yes, he believes in a historical Jesus. A man who once walked the earth but is now dead.
@Carl Williams You spew out too much words but most of it are garbage. Hahahahaha!
@Carl Williams i am an ex christian. I admire jesus as a historical person. Pls read Bart’s book How Jesus Became God.
I was blind but now I see!
@Carl Williams Yeah right. EX Chain smokers dont exist. because if they were true smokers the y would not have quit smoking.
@Carl Williams The EX blind man Jesus supposedly healed wasnt actually blind in the first place because if he were a genuinely blind person it was not possible for him to be able to see afterwards. It was actually a scam both of them planned in advance to deceive the onlookers.
If you believe the bible is true and infallible then you have to believe that your god thinks that it is OK to own a person as property, be able to pass on that ownership to your children, and be able to beat them almost to death. What an abhorrent book.
Exodus 21:16: "Whoever steals a man and sells him, and anyone found in possession of him, shall be put to death."
So in other words, if you steal someone's property you get the death penalty. Got it.
ah c,mon the jimtanker. everyone knows that the ownership of people from the bible is the "good" kind of slavery. Christians just never get it.
@LJC6127 There are no answers in the bible. It is a book of fairy tales for adults, nothing more.
Colorado Strong I’ll do the judging if called. A misogynistic, child killing, egotistical, inconsistent lunatic. I’ll judge the bugger alright
false.