Thank you so much for uploading this video. As a guilty believer who has become apathetic, lazy and bloated in regards to heaven and hell because of my comfortable and secure life, this was the perfect wake up call to view my faith and live for eternity instead of the here and now. Bless you 🙏
Ameen..... I have tears while praying at the end of the video, It is the best sermon/seminary I have heard for years. Thank you so much for these wonderful views and insights. YHWH Bless you and keep your spirit up and busy. Jeanette
I am a believer who affirms Conditional Immortality--annihilationism. I imagine most of you listening to Dr. Mohler have never entertained the idea that the Bible doesn't teach that God tortures people for all eternity because you have always been taught that the Bible says he does. I'd encourage you to go to the Rethinking Hell website and study. If you are willing, you will find the Biblical exegesis robust and even compelling. As one who has great respect for Dr. Mohler, it makes me sad that he so misrepresents our view, and he, having debated Chris Date, obviously is choosing to do so on purpose. But the saddest and most frustrating part of this talk is when he maligns and mischaracterizes Dr. John Stott, the great evangelical hero of a generation gone by. He quotes the first part of Stott's statement of finding hell intolerable, but he leaves off the rest of the statement. Then he says, 'I, Al Mohler, find the concept of hell intolerable too--but I (Albert Mohler) find it true.' And why does Dr. Mohler find it true? He says BECAUSE HIS GUIDE IS THE BIBLE. The clear implication Dr. Mohler was making was that was not true of John Stott--Stott let us emotions carry him. HOWEVER, and you go read Dr. Stott's comment for yourself, Dr. Stott says that no matter what one's emotions feel, the only true guide for truth is God's Word and there is no way that Dr. Mohler didn't know that. He deliberately misquoted Stott. Both Stott and FF Bruce and others throughout the ages who have denied Eternal Conscious Torment do so because they believe the Bible clearly teaches that the wages of sin truly is death--not torture. I was really disappointed by these statements by Dr. Mohler. Dr. Mohler then claims, quoting JI Packer, that Conditionalist claim a higher morality than Jesus. That is begging the question at hand. We never claim to have a higher morality than Jesus. We just claim that Jesus never taught ECT and if one just takes his ECT glasses off for just a bit, he or she will clearly see that is the case. We never claim our morality is higher than Jesus'; we claim we share his morality. I end by pointing out one more thing. Several times in this message Dr. Mohler quotes Matthew 10:28 as a verse that Conditionalist appeal to--'fear God who can destroy the body and soul in hell--but he does so almost with an incredulity that others find that verse so compelling that men will be destroyed completely in hell. He says, "What's irreducibly Biblical... is the fact that there is a presentation, and indeed a threat, of what it means to be destroyed in hell, that isn't about annihilation or conditional immortality, the mere destruction of the impenitent sinner, it's about eternal conscious punishment, it's about the worm that never burns, never destroys." No there's not--he's reading that into it. So what "destroyed" means to Dr. Mohler is that we are never destroyed, because the worm doesn't die. Does it not bother you that to affirm ECT one must argue that "destroyed" means "never being destroyed", but rather living on forever in torture?
I feel no need to repent of holding to the truth. I follow the Word of God to truth. I fear so many of you follow Augustine and his understanding of truth. That being said, have either of you seriously looked at Conditionalist exegesis for their Biblical argument? If you have, and came to a different conclusion, that’s one thing. What I’ve found from most who hold to the traditional view of eternal conscious torture is that they never have sought to even understand the Biblical argument. Like Mohler, they just appeal to tradition. For instance, Paul, did you know the parable of Lazarus and the rich man was a common story of Jesus day, but the good guy was the rich man? Do you really think that a drop of water on the tongue would help a man being burned alive? Would such a man being tortured carry on a conversation with Abraham like that? There is ample evidence that the story is a parable, not a literal picture of hell, but even if it was meant to be a literal picture it’s of the intermediate state and not final judgment. Like you guys I was convinced of ECT because people told me it was true and I simply believed it, but when I began to look at Scripture for what it said, I came to believe the wages of sin really is death-not eternal life in torment.
My deeply humble prayer is that those who hold the traditional view of Hell would accept the Christians who hold to Conditional Immortality as faithful brothers and sisters in Christ. Who hold the view on strictly biblical grounds. And that they would discern and recognize the context of comments sometimes made, regarding this doctrine, which can be spoken of in the form of common sense terms as well as in philosophical reasoning to try to get this truth through the thick walls of tradition, girded by majority consensus over vast swaths of time these past two thousand years. Do not think we simply feel that it's a view legitimized on weak hermeneutics which, due to said muddying interpretation, win us your begrudging invitation to the table of fellowship. But for the invitation to help Traditionalists to truly get back to what God has inspired His past Patriarchs, Prophets, and Apostles to teach us in His holy word. Amen
Very true. If these brothers & sisters get on their knees and humble themselves and ask God to reveal hisself to them. Open his word and they will understand what Life is about!
You are cordially invited to the Wedding And the Great Feast of the Lord Jesus Christ and His bride the Church to take Place in the Kingdom Of Heaven, really Really soon. No Gift required, He was the Gift for you. THANK YOU LORD JESUS CHRIST FOR ALL YOUR GREAT BLESSINGS.
Hopefully this Robert Bell, is saved because if he just decided not FULLY PREACHED and TAUGHT the FULL gospel truth, doubt if his name is written in the lamb's book because taking away from God's word, takes away anyone's name of the book of life. Woe, to those that change God's word originally for modern false doctrine. HELL is taught and preached by our savior warning us to truly REPENT of our sins and believe and trust what HE has done on the cross and truly believe he was raised from the dead though shalt be saved.
If I were to die tonight, which due to my age and health is all very possible. In that case I would of course have come to the end of my existence and return to the same place I came before I was born, total oblivion, and since in all that time I suffered not the slightest inconvenience, so it will be thereafter. So that has nothing to fear. But assuming I was wrong and there really was some kind of God, who ask why I did not believe in him and why should I be admitted to his mansion; I would simply say: did not believe in any God because I never saw any evidence of a Deity, but during my life on earth I had always try to be the best human being I could possibly be, as decent, honest, truthful and kind; trying never to do any intentional harm to any fellow human being; And I would tell him that I was sure that would please him and expect to be received with open arms. I think I would be.
Hell was written about and feared in pagan sources (Mesopotamian, Persian, Greek, Roman) centuries before it was ever mentioned in the Bible. Homer, Plato, Lucian, Hesiod, the author of I Enoch...all these ancient authors (and more) wrote about some version of hell and it's inhabitants before the New Testament ever mentioned it or appropriated the terminology. Christians were not the first to teach or write about it. People are saved for eternity, not because of getting THE RIGHT view of hell, but because they have accepted Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord. May God save us from adding to the simple truth of the Gospel and from acting as, know-it-all, Biblical gate keepers! The Gospel of saving grace is offered to all, not just "elect" theologians or "Christian" Pharisees who profess special status and divine, hidden knowledge unavailable to most people.
So....he's defending the basis of Dante as "irreducibly biblical"?! I wonder if he is also a fan of the witch hunters and Inquisitors of medieval times? Why does he mock the present, hard-won experiences of joy and happiness rooted in many modern discoveries? Is he longing for the "good ole days" of unquestioned religious authority and rampant superstitions? An era of human misery? Scary subtext in these "pious," nostalgic rantings. Also...not everything Jesus taught was meant to be taken as "objectively" true (i.e. Luke 16). This is why he taught using PARABLES, stories, not historical accounts, used to convey greater, eternal truths. Whether the prodigal son was a historically "objective" person or not is totally missing the point of that parable and others. One can fully accept the words of Jesus without injecting 20th century, fundamentalist obsessions into them. It's not an either/or of accept Jesus' teachings or reject all of them. Rather, begin by reading Jesus correctly.
"Let's state the obvious, if that weren't true, Jesus wouldn't have told us" That says it all right there, you are beholden to what the book says jesus says. and yet a former christian apologist has something to say about this topic... "If god had done a better job of revealing his will, there wouldn't be much of anything for christian defenders, or apologists, to do but share the gospel message like evangelists do. but since the god of the bible didn't do his best, christian apologists are forced to defend their faith against a multitude of objections raised against it. it's as if god gave christian defenders permanent job security, forgetting that there are eternal destinies at stake, people who, on some accounts, will suffer torment forever because of it." Loftus Also from Loftus "Why does christianity need such defense at all? the fact that it takes so much work to defend christianity is a strong indicator, all by itself, that the christian god either does not exist, or doesn't care if we believe."
Thank you so much for uploading this video. As a guilty believer who has become apathetic, lazy and bloated in regards to heaven and hell because of my comfortable and secure life, this was the perfect wake up call to view my faith and live for eternity instead of the here and now. Bless you 🙏
Ameen..... I have tears while praying at the end of the video, It is the best sermon/seminary I have heard for years. Thank you so much for these wonderful views and insights. YHWH Bless you and keep your spirit up and busy. Jeanette
Thank you. I love this faithful, Biblically sound preaching. It is surely all but absent from our modern churches.
I am a believer who affirms Conditional Immortality--annihilationism. I imagine most of you listening to Dr. Mohler have never entertained the idea that the Bible doesn't teach that God tortures people for all eternity because you have always been taught that the Bible says he does. I'd encourage you to go to the Rethinking Hell website and study. If you are willing, you will find the Biblical exegesis robust and even compelling.
As one who has great respect for Dr. Mohler, it makes me sad that he so misrepresents our view, and he, having debated Chris Date, obviously is choosing to do so on purpose. But the saddest and most frustrating part of this talk is when he maligns and mischaracterizes Dr. John Stott, the great evangelical hero of a generation gone by. He quotes the first part of Stott's statement of finding hell intolerable, but he leaves off the rest of the statement. Then he says, 'I, Al Mohler, find the concept of hell intolerable too--but I (Albert Mohler) find it true.' And why does Dr. Mohler find it true? He says BECAUSE HIS GUIDE IS THE BIBLE. The clear implication Dr. Mohler was making was that was not true of John Stott--Stott let us emotions carry him. HOWEVER, and you go read Dr. Stott's comment for yourself, Dr. Stott says that no matter what one's emotions feel, the only true guide for truth is God's Word and there is no way that Dr. Mohler didn't know that. He deliberately misquoted Stott. Both Stott and FF Bruce and others throughout the ages who have denied Eternal Conscious Torment do so because they believe the Bible clearly teaches that the wages of sin truly is death--not torture. I was really disappointed by these statements by Dr. Mohler.
Dr. Mohler then claims, quoting JI Packer, that Conditionalist claim a higher morality than Jesus. That is begging the question at hand. We never claim to have a higher morality than Jesus. We just claim that Jesus never taught ECT and if one just takes his ECT glasses off for just a bit, he or she will clearly see that is the case. We never claim our morality is higher than Jesus'; we claim we share his morality.
I end by pointing out one more thing. Several times in this message Dr. Mohler quotes Matthew 10:28 as a verse that Conditionalist appeal to--'fear God who can destroy the body and soul in hell--but he does so almost with an incredulity that others find that verse so compelling that men will be destroyed completely in hell. He says, "What's irreducibly Biblical... is the fact that there is a presentation, and indeed a threat, of what it means to be destroyed in hell, that isn't about annihilation or conditional immortality, the mere destruction of the impenitent sinner, it's about eternal conscious punishment, it's about the worm that never burns, never destroys." No there's not--he's reading that into it. So what "destroyed" means to Dr. Mohler is that we are never destroyed, because the worm doesn't die. Does it not bother you that to affirm ECT one must argue that "destroyed" means "never being destroyed", but rather living on forever in torture?
You must repent of undermining God's infallible word.
You must've missed the story of Lazarus and the rich man. Bless you brother.
I feel no need to repent of holding to the truth. I follow the Word of God to truth. I fear so many of you follow Augustine and his understanding of truth. That being said, have either of you seriously looked at Conditionalist exegesis for their Biblical argument? If you have, and came to a different conclusion, that’s one thing. What I’ve found from most who hold to the traditional view of eternal conscious torture is that they never have sought to even understand the Biblical argument. Like Mohler, they just appeal to tradition. For instance, Paul, did you know the parable of Lazarus and the rich man was a common story of Jesus day, but the good guy was the rich man? Do you really think that a drop of water on the tongue would help a man being burned alive? Would such a man being tortured carry on a conversation with Abraham like that? There is ample evidence that the story is a parable, not a literal picture of hell, but even if it was meant to be a literal picture it’s of the intermediate state and not final judgment. Like you guys I was convinced of ECT because people told me it was true and I simply believed it, but when I began to look at Scripture for what it said, I came to believe the wages of sin really is death-not eternal life in torment.
@CanadaCraig It is arrogant to reject the clear teaching of God's Inspired, Inerrant, Infallible, Invincible and indestructible word - the Bible.
My deeply humble prayer is that those who hold the traditional view of Hell would accept the Christians who hold to Conditional Immortality as faithful brothers and sisters in Christ. Who hold the view on strictly biblical grounds. And that they would discern and recognize the context of comments sometimes made, regarding this doctrine, which can be spoken of in the form of common sense terms as well as in philosophical reasoning to try to get this truth through the thick walls of tradition, girded by majority consensus over vast swaths of time these past two thousand years.
Do not think we simply feel that it's a view legitimized on weak hermeneutics which, due to said muddying interpretation, win us your begrudging invitation to the table of fellowship. But for the invitation to help Traditionalists to truly get back to what God has inspired His past Patriarchs, Prophets, and Apostles to teach us in His holy word.
Amen
Minute 37
Those two diagnostic questions are enough...they were helpful.
No one has to believe in the existence of hell! One minute after your last breath you will know all about it! Too bad you can't change your mind then!
Very true. If these brothers & sisters get on their knees and humble themselves and ask God to reveal hisself to them. Open his word and they will understand what Life is about!
prove it or admit you are wrong
very encouraging
You are cordially invited to the Wedding And the Great Feast of the Lord Jesus Christ and His bride the Church to take Place in the Kingdom Of Heaven, really Really soon.
No Gift required, He was the Gift for you. THANK YOU LORD JESUS CHRIST FOR ALL YOUR GREAT BLESSINGS.
Hopefully this Robert Bell, is saved because if he just decided not FULLY PREACHED and TAUGHT the FULL gospel truth, doubt if his name is written in the lamb's book because taking away from God's word, takes away anyone's name of the book of life. Woe, to those that change God's word originally for modern false doctrine. HELL is taught and preached by our savior warning us to truly REPENT of our sins and believe and trust what HE has done on the cross and truly believe he was raised from the dead though shalt be saved.
If you need hell to sell Jesus you don’t know your product
AMEN!!!!!!!
If I were to die tonight, which due to my age and health is all very possible. In that case I would of course have come to the end of my existence and return to the same place I came before I was born, total oblivion, and since in all that time I suffered not the slightest inconvenience, so it will be thereafter. So that has nothing to fear. But assuming I was wrong and there really was some kind of God, who ask why I did not believe in him and why should I be admitted to his mansion; I would simply say: did not believe in any God because I never saw any evidence of a Deity, but during my life on earth I had always try to be the best human being I could possibly be, as decent, honest, truthful and kind; trying never to do any intentional harm to any fellow human being; And I would tell him that I was sure that would please him and expect to be received with open arms. I think I would be.
Gods word is Gods word- once we think put our views in it- weve corrupted the written word HELL IS REAL
prove it
Hell was written about and feared in pagan sources (Mesopotamian, Persian, Greek, Roman) centuries before it was ever mentioned in the Bible. Homer, Plato, Lucian, Hesiod, the author of I Enoch...all these ancient authors (and more) wrote about some version of hell and it's inhabitants before the New Testament ever mentioned it or appropriated the terminology. Christians were not the first to teach or write about it. People are saved for eternity, not because of getting THE RIGHT view of hell, but because they have accepted Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord. May God save us from adding to the simple truth of the Gospel and from acting as, know-it-all, Biblical gate keepers! The Gospel of saving grace is offered to all, not just "elect" theologians or "Christian" Pharisees who profess special status and divine, hidden knowledge unavailable to most people.
Everyone has experienced heaven and hell on this earth. They are only a foretaste of the real ones in after life. Yearn for heaven, shun for hell.
Perhaps jesus said or did wrong or immoral things.
This guy believes God predestined most of humanity to eternal conscious burning. Interesting.
I wonder if he also laments the decline of witch trials in the 18th century? Ahhhh...."the good ole days" of the Faith!🤔
So....he's defending the basis of Dante as "irreducibly biblical"?! I wonder if he is also a fan of the witch hunters and Inquisitors of medieval times? Why does he mock the present, hard-won experiences of joy and happiness rooted in many modern discoveries? Is he longing for the "good ole days" of unquestioned religious authority and rampant superstitions? An era of human misery? Scary subtext in these "pious," nostalgic rantings. Also...not everything Jesus taught was meant to be taken as "objectively" true (i.e. Luke 16). This is why he taught using PARABLES, stories, not historical accounts, used to convey greater, eternal truths. Whether the prodigal son was a historically "objective" person or not is totally missing the point of that parable and others. One can fully accept the words of Jesus without injecting 20th century, fundamentalist obsessions into them. It's not an either/or of accept Jesus' teachings or reject all of them. Rather, begin by reading Jesus correctly.
"Let's state the obvious, if that weren't true, Jesus wouldn't have told us" That says it all right there, you are beholden to what the book says jesus says. and yet a former christian apologist has something to say about this topic...
"If god had done a better job of revealing his will, there wouldn't be much of anything for christian defenders, or apologists, to do but share the gospel message like evangelists do. but since the god of the bible didn't do his best, christian apologists are forced to defend their faith against a multitude of objections raised against it. it's as if god gave christian defenders permanent job security, forgetting that there are eternal destinies at stake, people who, on some accounts, will suffer torment forever because of it." Loftus
Also from Loftus "Why does christianity need such defense at all? the fact that it takes so much work to defend christianity is a strong indicator, all by itself, that the christian god either does not exist, or doesn't care if we believe."
The problem isnt Gods revelation. The problem is the sinful and broken equipment recieving the revelation. Read Romans 1 real carefully.
gerrymandering and cognitive dissonance with a heavy dose of special pleading topped off with obfuscation.
the tool of perception is pointed on both ends, yes, Jisttheman?
Indeed. we all have cognitive bias that form our perceptions.
or vice versa.
non-sequitur
How? Clarify for me then