LAWYER: Can You Get a DUI Sleeping in the Back?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 ก.ย. 2023
- A redditor was worried about getting a DUI sleeping in the back of his camper truck. Is that even possible? What does the law say? And do other redditors give good advice?
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I have seen a guy at the bar waiting for an uber get arrested for public intoxication. Sitting on a bench not bother anyone. Police can really arrest anyone for anything.
Yes, indeed. It's insane.
Yeah, I saw that on the Civil Rights Lawyer's channel. Technically he wasn't arrested for being drunk, per se, but rather for refusing to identify himself. However, he wasn't reasonably suspected of committing any crime, so the cops had no right to demand his ID.
The guy was released a few minutes later, but it was still an outrageous violation of the guy's civil rights. I don't know if he is pursuing legal action, but he should. It would be a slam dunk.
@@Milesco Police like to quote the nonexistent law that they can make you identify yourself just because they ask.
@@Milesco oh yes, the major crime of failure to show papers. Civil-rights lawyer and Andrew are the best channels
@@MilescoI saw that, it was fucking ridiculous! That guy was doing the responsible thing, but the coppers want those schweet promotions and M.A.D.D. awards! Kept asking for his ID and saying dumb shit like, "How do I know you're waiting for a ride share?" Simple, Sherlock... either wait to see whether one arrives, or ask to see the rideshare order in the app (which the victim offered to do multiple times)!
How... the fuck... would his driver's license indicate whether he was waiting for a rideshare? These "brain surgeons" think that your ID is an omniscient soothsayer! It can not only tell them what you're doing right now, but also what's in your heart/mind, and what you'll do in the future.
This is why laws that criminalize "sleeping it off" are are not just unfair and unreasonable, they're a *_bad public policy._*
Such laws actually *_encourage_* drunk driving! 😡
Also bad PR for the police. If you don't want to be viewed as an organization that regularly abuses power, don't arrest people for doing what is good for society. Sleeping rather than driving drunk = good. I double-checked my math.
@@blah2blah65 Unfortunately, I don't think the police give a damn about being perceived as an occupation that regularly abuses its power. After all, they do it all the time. And yet the police enjoy an enormous amount of undeserved respect and prestige from the general public, who put them on a pedestal and call them "heroes". Civilians often refer to cops as people who "risk their lives every day", even though that is not the case at all.
@@FirstLast-hs4gw probably all good advice. It seems wrong that it’s not necessary what laws you did or didn’t break that gets people punished, but sometimes wether or not you upset the officers. Even when unfounded, you may beat the charge, but you won’t beat the ride (which can cost thousands and include jail time).
@@FirstLast-hs4gwI think you should be arrested because in my opinion you seem unable to control your violent tendency.
@@jbc175Iam personally afraid of Firstlast cop.
He's already stated he almost killed someone by punching them severely.
I believe the public is in danger of crossing him and potentially being killed, or maimed. And just like getting the wrong cop, I believe he needs the wrong citizens to lock him up in a mental institution. Then send him to anger management and force feed him Xanax. Then if he can ever re enter civil society. He should be handcuffed while in public.
It's more important for all of our "Safety" than for a violent cop to run free on our streets.
Charging somebody with OUI for sleeping in the back of their vehicle because there's the possibility that they could be driving at some point is like charging somebody who is carrying a gun with murder because there is a possibility that they could shoot somebody.
You need to realize that DUI and related drinking violations feed the system, and your mom thinks it is great to get all these drunk drivers that may kill her little daughter off the road! Every ticket creates work for the court system, creates lawyer fees, alcohol evaluation departments, AA or MAAD classes, and the jail system. That is one tickets worth of support for this gov'ment!
Your gun analogy is actually what they are trying to accomplish.
@@richwightman3044Exactly
I can’t help but imagine that there could be some “totality of circumstances” factors that come into play here.
So if you are in a campground and it’s raining, maybe you had a couple beers and the heater was running because it was chilly. But you had a sleeping bag & a pillow all rolled out in the back. Most of these factors indicate intent to spend the night where it’s warm and dry, instead of intent to drive.
But if the car is off to the side of the road sort of haphazardly and you are passed out, even if you did everything “right” that might be hard to defend because the circumstances indicate that you likely drove there while impaired.
In these cases I blame the jury - The jury is supposed to be citizens watching out for other citizens against abuse from the government. Jury trials are the one check and balance citizens have against government over reach in the justice system. Jury members need to follow their own belief in right or wrong and not blindly follow the law as the judge will instruct. Jury nullification is a beautiful thing.
If I'm on a jury, never in a million years would I convict somebody of a DUI under those circumstances. No way, no how.
I'd hang/force a mistrial if I couldn't convince the others. It would take some effort not to audibly react to the idiocy of the judge's instructions about what "operating" means, but in the interest of not screwing an innocent person, I'd try to save that for the jury discussion rather than doing anything that calls the judge out. But that would take effort.
@@TheMelnTeam Totally 100% agree. 👍 😊
@TheMelnTeam Just don't tell the judge that. They do NOT like "jury nullification", and WILL punish a jury that doesn't render the desired verdict
If I’m on a jury, I will assume the cops are lying about everything.
@@selfdo Legally, they can only ask if the verdict is your verdict. They can't ask you why your verdict is what it is. If they didn't prove the case beyond the doubt you have, you vote not guilty. It's not jury nullification, it's that the prosecution didn't prove their case.
Verdict is in: Laws are written to be as vague as possible to give cops the most power over a citizen trying to do the right thing.
No good deed goes unpunished...
Most laws that were vague were thrown out.
Drive a car = DUI.
Sleep it off in the car = DUI.
Leave the car and walk home = Public Intoxication.
Call an Uber and wait for it = Public Intoxication.
Sleep it off on a park bench = Loitering.
Hide in the bushes until sober = Someone calls 911 over a suspicious person = Disorderly Conduct, Hindering, Obstruction, Resisting Arrest.. whatever the cops can pile on because "we got a call", and when they get a call, someone's catching a beating and getting arrested.
..the logical choice is driving, it's the least amount of exposure.
"cause finally the tables are starting to turn" - Tracey Chapman
If your breaking the law, vast majority of the time, theres "no good deed" thats occurring. Be real here.....
What is really sad is that I know a Trucker who was passing by the city he lives in. His wife met him at the Truck Stop and was arrested for 'Immoral sexual Acts' in Slidell, Louisiana and now is on a Sexual predator database. This is how much of an asshole, COPs can be.
DUI laws in our country are insane. No one should be driving while drunk, but the thought of being able to get a DUI while trying to do the right and safe thing is insane. At that point, the law is basically saying it would rather the person try to make the 10 minute drive home as its far less likely they get pulled over than a few hour nap in the car where someone might see you and call the police or the police might just be routinely patrolling. We are literally incentivizing people to do the more dangerous and dumber thing. No wonder DUIs are out of control in this country.
My thoughts precisely. It's almost like it's a revenue stream rather than a public safety issue. I'm all for public safety, especially given that I almost never drink so this issue doesn't affect me personally, but why have a system that punishes someone for choosing not to drive while drunk?
Protecting the public from drunk drivers isn't the real issue: thats the excuse used. The real purpose is two-fold. (1) stealing money/property/freedom from people who aren't a threat to themselves or others, using bad 'laws' to accomplish these thefts-by-government-decree. (2) Using such 'legal' fraud to control/intimidate/punish as many victims as possible, in order to terrorize citizens into compliance with tyrants profiting from such scams. "When the government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny."
It's crazy that you don't do roadside screening breath tests like the rest of the world does. Pass the test and sent on your way. The 5th Amendment forces police to do field sobriety tests to try to get evidence to get a warrant for an alcohol test.
Breaking news.... Law makers don't give a sh** about your safety.
@@burke615When the Government talks about Public Safety, they aren't talking about the saftey of the Citizens.
Think of the word Public as in the way the Government separates everything into (Public vs Private)
Public= Everything Government
Public Servants, means Government Servants.
We aren't the Public, Government is the Public.
I lived in an RV for many years. The truck is that if you pull all the curtains and they can't see you, they can't prosecute you for anything, unless you are parked illegally. Don't answer if they knock and don't let them see you. Above all, park legally so you're not towed while in the back. And for goodness sake, turn off your phone notifications.
Great tips...why turn off the notifications? Seems like it would take a lot of self control not to answer (especially if you're RVing with your family!)
@@epic-playlists I mean audible ones. If they hear your phone notifications, or see your phone light come on around the curtains, they might then believe you're inside.
Hide cower and submit. Welcome to authoritarianism.
@@neowolf09 I could have tried fighting the law every night, but it seemed easier to just pull some curtains
Arizona is ridiculously aggressive when it comes to DUIs. There were 4 college students, one of which was the DD coming home from the bar. They stopped at the gas station and DD went inside leaving the keys in the car so the others could listen to music. Police arrested all 3 passengers for DUI.
It used to be widely understood that the law has a written component (the letter of the law) and a value component (the spirit of the law). Every law is an infringement on liberty. There has to be a value that is gained from that infringement. To criminalize people attempting NOT to drive while impaired by alcohol is a mark of tyranny, and should be aggressively challenged, by any and all means, in my opinion.
YES! Exactly how I believe as well. ..like when a cop pulls you over for not using turn signal, but there is no other traffic around to see that turn signal (other than the cop lurking parked in a lot near that intersection) there's no real infraction other than the "letter of the law" - which was put into place to give OTHER traffic warning of your intended action(s).
Agreed! And this is part of the reason law enforcement doesn't get the respect that they used to back in the day. I believe it starts with training at the academies, where they're just teaching future cops that every interaction is a fishing expedition, and to find ways to charge people with crimes...spirit (or intent) of the law be damned! Frankly I think they need to include morals and ethics and PR in the academies. Also, we need to spread the word about jury nullification.
Aggressively challenging. The position of these laws is highly expensive. Most people can’t afford the lawyer, that will help fight the good fight against tyranny.
Sorry I spoke to a person and was arrested for DUI and she was sitting in her back seat . She had called a Uber and was waiting for it . While she was being arrested the uber driver pulled up and started to call her name. The officer told her he didn’t care she possessed the keys to her car. I can tell you of 3 other bizarre cases in Arizona. The stories would knock your socks off.
Cops love to show how powerful they are which is why they become cops.
Did she get convicted though?
And Cops wonder why so many people HATE them!
That’s the kind of cops we have now. Petty little tyrant cowards. Too afraid to interact with actual bad people so they pick on little girls or people they think will not resist.
I mean, it is Arizona (no offense). No bad cop story out of that state surprises me anymore.
I sat on a jury in Virginia where someone was arrested for sleeping in the driver’s seat while drunk for two hours while the engine was running (to heat the car cabin)
A local McDonalds had called the cops because they were worried about the occupant. The cops had to bang on the window with nightsticks to wake him up.
We decided the facts showed that he was drunk and he was on public property. The third criteria was, is he in control of the vehicle? I argued that he can not be controlling the vehicle if he is stopped and sound asleep.
We were also instructed that we could not consider how he got to the parking place. We were a hung jury with 4 voting for not guilty and 2 for guilty.
As a side note, we wrote a note to the judge saying that we were also having a hard time convicting someone that realized he was drunk and did the right thing, pulled off the road and went to sleep it off. The judge replied and she said “that is exactly the purpose of the jury system, to look at all the circumstances in the case when coming to a decision.” That solidified my decision of not guilty.
Sounds like it could have been a perfect case for "Jury Nullification".
"He violated the letter of the law but we think that law itself is flawed in not allowing for an exception in these type of cases and therefor he should not be punished"
Thing is no judge or prosecutor will tell juries that jury nullification is an option (they like to make you think guilty/not guilty are the only options) and defense attorneys are generally barred from mentioning it.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jury_nullification
@@DarkWolfsDen thank you that interesting link on Jury Nullification
@@DarkWolfsDen They will not tell you about it because they can't, but Jury Nullification will always be with us in a fair system because Jury Nullification is not _in_ the law but exists as a logical consequence of two other laws that must exist in a fair system: 1) The jury cannot be punished for a "wrong" decision no matter what the evidence suggests. The point of a jury is to be the final decider, and 2) a non-guilty defendant cannot be charged again for the same crime so once someone is determined non-guilty that decision cannot be changed.
Uh.... McDonald's would be private, no public property.
That is a perfect example of "jury nullification." Beautiful.
I haven’t had any alcohol in 24 years. I know that 25 years ago in Texas, it was a matter of whether or not the keys were in the ignition. People were driving home drunk vs sleeping it off in their cars first (those, who had nowhere else to go). The reason people did this, was out of fear of being discovered while sleeping it off and being arrested for DUI even though they weren’t actually driving. It got to the point where cops would stake out bars and clubs watching folks come out drunk and see which cars they got into without driving away, and target them. So people just said screw it and chanced driving home anyways. (Over zealous aggressive cops were making it much worse) So to help stop that, the law was passed or amended to state that if keys were in the ignition, that constituted operating the vehicle. Keys on the floorboard constituted not operating the vehicle. I don’t know if laws have changed since then. But for it to have been considered driving , and the DUI charge stick, the operator had to be in the drivers seat, AND making the vehicle move under its own power. This actually did lower the amount of drunks driving home after 2am. And it made it so folks that had too much could be responsible without fear of being targeted by aggressive cops.
Back then, for reference for younger folks, there were no GoPros or cameras everywhere. There might’ve been 2 camera phones, total, on the market. So it was almost always cops word vs citizens word…and that almost never ended well for the citizen. You HAD to have an expensive lawyer, if you were gonna have a chance at being acquitted. Nowadays, you can simply record everything and that’s what gets the charges dropped. Cameras are much much cheaper than lawyers.
This is why laws that criminalize "sleeping it off" are are not just unfair and unreasonable, they're a *_bad public policy._* Such laws actually *_encourage_* drunk driving! 😡
The constitution also lied to the american people and im exposing it too.
its a case of If i'm going to jail for the DUI I might as well do the DUI
@@Dano420 *Exactly.* If you're gonna catch a DUI anyway, just for sleeping in your car, you might as well go ahead and drive home.
@@Milesco
Except for the little fact that you can't get into an accident if your sleeping it off.
"in the vehicle with the keys"...so in that case if you are driving the car completely sober and your wife is in the passenger seat drunk, but she also has a copy of the car keys, she can then be arrested for dui even though she wasn't driving.
That is what enforcing the law this way implies, and a good example of why it's stupid and unjustifiable. Effectively penalizes people for no reason/doing the right thing.
I would not expect a case like this to go forward, and if it did I would expect a judge to throw it out, but anything is possible.
@@sm5574 A lot of jurisdictions wouldn't throw it out. It gives them another DUI conviction to show the people how they are making the streets "safe"
I was part of a jury where an ambitious and aggressive County DA charged the passenger and driver with DUI. The Jury was having none of his political ambitions and refused to convict the (also) impaired passenger.
@@Hawkeye2001 were I on the jury for that one I would refuse to convict either one just to send a message to the DA.
In Florida, back about 1980ish, sleeping it off in the vehicle while sitting in the passenger seat with the keys in the glove box was a positive defense vs DUI since you did not have possession of the keys and were not in a position to operate the vehicle. Keys in pocket or readily accessible or in driver's seat got you a DUI. Got away with it a few times back then, but then cops weren't trained to be enemy combatants and treat civilians as POWs without any legal rights.
"in control of the vehicle" is what gets you. Also "Don't be a jerk". Had a friend years ago arrested for DUI because he was getting stuff out of his car at the bar. I was his sober ride. Cop was in the next parking lot. Soon as my buddy leaned in, the cop drove over, lights going. NO keys in the ignition. Luckily my buddy didn't blow or say much other than he wasn't driving and had a ride home -pointing to me. Aggressive a-hole cop, coupled with some not nice things from my buddy about the cops parental lineage and sexual preference resulted in arrest. I was threatened with arrest as well for hollering from my car. The typical "we'll find something".
In the end, the somewhat blurry B&W security vid from the bar helped get my buddy off (cop lied and said he was behind the wheel of the car and driving), but it still cost him around $5200 at the time for the attorney, court fees, etc. Still amazes me that when found not guilty, the accused has to pay court costs.
It's all a jobs plan for the gov'ment and lawyers
Since there is so much confusion, it seems like it would make sense to add a "safe harbor" provision to DUI laws to provide a safe and legal way to sleep it off in your vehicle.
Two key points when dealing with the police: 1) be polite and 2) be quiet.
Here's the hack I used in my younger (single) days when I might decide that my best interests included sleeping in the back seat of my car after a night out. Laws generally state that you have to have "control" of the vehicle. What I did a few times when it was a better idea to spend the night in my car than drive home was I would find a spot down the road somewhere to hide my keys such as in a shrub, under some leaves, etc and sleep it off in the back seat. This way, if a nosy cop wanted to know why some guy was sleeping in a car and I'm obviously hammered, it would be pretty tough for a prosecutor to prove I was "in control of the vehicle" when they never found the keys. I'm not an lawyer, but I'll risk my freedom on this approach.
This is what I was going to say. Make sure the keys are no where to be found. Really hard to argue you could do anything if the keys are missing entirely.
Hide them under the hood
In BC Canada the police can arrest you for dui up to 3 hrs after you drank. Leave the bar drunk and someone reports you at 10 pm. They can haul your ass out of your home by 1 am for dui. It gets tricky if you went home and continued drinking.
I just posted this same thing before I read your post. If you're going to sleep it off in a bar parking lot, stick the keys/starter fob under a bush or something.
While I did beat it (florida) they treid to give me DUI on a pedal bicycle (said no thanks to the field sobriety and breathalyzer). They did suspend my license for a year for the refusal, but I don't even own a car anyways lmao. Wasn't giving them free evidence when I don't even drive to begin with
The People's Republic of Florida..... Thats's where I got my first traffic citation at age 14......... On a bicycle.
Someone relatively recently got charged with a DUI here in Florida for operating their wheelchair while intoxicated!
Washington State here. Generally, the police might do a welfare check if youre parked in a strange place. I usually sit in my passenger seat and lounge back with the heater running if i have had too much. As long as you are not trespassing or blocking traffic, they leave you alone. The police up here are a lot different from the police back home in Texas. Don't try that in Texas, because they will charge you and let their fishing buddy, the judge, seal the deal for them, while they move up the career ladder.
I think the police would charge you DUI in your bed if they thought they could.
They can and will if they get the chance
And in another generation or two, they will be.
Show us on the doll where a cop touched you in the no-no place to make you this ignorant and angry.
So what's next ? You're at home past out in your bed and the car is in the garage, but you still have the keys in the house and could get back in the car any second. Arrest him officer !
The obvious answer is to lock the keys in the truck where the keys can be seen by the office and sleep in the back cab of the truck. Then next day, while sober, find the emergency key under the truck to open the door. Similar of sleeping in the car/truck portion. Lock the keys in the glove box and tell the officer your keys are lost. Later, when sober, use the emergency key under the car to get inside the glove box. If you're ever prosecuted for this, you can make a good faith statement that you forgot the emergency key that was on the car ever since you got the car since you've never had to use before. Plausible deniability.
That's smart and might work, I'm not denying that. But having to do so much mental gymnastics and thinking about every single little thing to this extent is absolute madness. The laws we have are ridiculous and unreasonable.
I think you outsmarted yourself here. It could be a prosecutor that could have broken the window to get the keys and drive away. You could just go bury the keys in a dirt hole. Or better yet, instead of all this premeditated planning like some sort of serial killer, how about just call an Uber if youve drank too much, ya? Seems like alot more sane thing to do.
@@srobeck77 I don't drink.
@@notusedexer Then you dont need to dream up all these loopholes to circumvent the law anymore, ya?
@@srobeck77 circumvent the law? Bullshit! The law is the one that's ridiculous. I'm a free man. We are endowed by our Creator with certain unalienable rights. The ridiculous law is the problem. I am giving solutions.
If you want to take a nap in your vehicle, you cannot have your keys inside the vehicle at all in some states. If you put your keys outside the vehicle (far enough away) then police will have a very difficult time trying to claim that you could potentially operate the vehicle. In my state, if you have your keys and you're even in the proximity of your vehicle you can be arrested. So unlocking the vehicle to do the above must not be done in sight of an officer.
We had a case here in Massachusetts (hearsay) where this one guy, every time he was pulled over, he would get out of his vehicle, lock his car, chuck his keys in the woods, open a brand new bottle of vodka, and chug it in front of the cop. They had the hardest time prosecuting him because they couldn't get him for DUI. It could be a folk tale they tell people but I thought it was an interesting anecdote.
Urban legend.
Chugging liquor, even if the bottle was not previously opened, does not get you out of dui.
Man that scene from Breaking Bad was so funny and a REALLY close call.
My favorite scene from that entire series! It was awesome. 👍
That brother in law dea guy was a complete d-nozzle. I hated him from day one and his demise made me happy. He got what he deserved.
This was a question in my "You and the Law" class back in high school... around 1980. A guy left a bar at closing time and was too drunk to drive. Problem was, it was freezing cold outside... as in actual snow and ice. So he started the car in the parking lot, turned on the heater, and got in the back seat to sleep it off. He got a DUI. Everyone in the class was outraged because the man did everything he could to NOT drive while intoxicated... but just didn't want to freeze to death. If judges had some common sense.... *sigh* Never mind.
A friend of a friend had this happen to him in Chattanooga. He was trying to do the right thing. It motivated him to become a lawyer
Im in canada I know a guy who got charged for riding his horse after leaving a card game in the country '' Farmer '' so rather then drive he just took the horse but was charge with care and control Another for riding a lawnmower in his own yard but went into the ditch to cut that long grass and a cop seen the beer and charged him
My brother for riding a peddle bike to the store for snacks and the best is a guy who pulled the motor from his car put it in the shop to rebuild it. He ordered the parts Friday for a Monday delivery,
So over the weekend he decided to put in the new radio and got charged with care and control when the Karan next door reported him for drinking in his car,
I'd love to say I don't drink so I have nothing to worry about, but the sad truth is it doesn't matter. As you pointed out, if they want to arrest you for something, they'll find something to arrest you for.
Something to touch on… “You can’t park here! Move your car or I’ll give you a ticket!” Now what??? 😢
DUI's have become the major money maker of city/county/state courts.
Not how is used to be, America had police officers who could tell when someone needed help, seeking shelter or was DUI, these days it's a crime jay walking they go over the top. Good stuff to know, thanks for sharing. Best is don't drink and drive, take a cab, uber, friend, party down knowing you used the seven p's proper prior planning prevents piss poor performance. Great topic, Cheers! 🍻
In the "old days" people were often arrested for Vagrancy, which just means being in a jurisdiction without any money or a job. In some places these laws are still on the books, but rarely enforced. Cops went over the top all the time in the 20th Century. Do you remember "sunset laws" where being in a town after sunset while having a certain skin tone was a crime? There were also "blue laws" which prohibited various activities on a Sunday.
@@jayfrank1913those days were still better.
@@importsstillsuck Agree to disagree.
@@importsstillsuckFor stuck up pricks, maybe. Way to tell on yourself.
@@importsstillsuckYou're saying that because you're naive, privileged, and uncaring.
I know a guy that got out of a DWI buy unplugging the car’s battery before he fell asleep in the front seat
Crazy. That was actually upheld? I didn't think my respect for this particular system could go any lower, but if the vehicle was literally inoperable and the person is still punished then it has indeed gone lower.
That reeks of an urban myth, not reality. You wouldnt be able to prove exactly when the car was or wasnt operable while drunk.
I was in a club in Atlanta GA, came out stumbling drunk, i had parked in a industrial park, got in car and passed out, only to be awaken with a knock on my window, i explained that i had been drinking and didn't think it wise to drive. The cop said, "That was wise, but to please get out of the driver's seat and sleep it off in the passengers'' seat, i did and woke up with the sunshine coming up. In hindsight I think he was being very nice, because i was beyond just a little drunk, i am sure he could have put me under the jail.
And you should have went jail for being stupid and driving in the first place. Hopefully lesson learned.
@@srobeck77 i didnt drive read before commenting.
I got one in ND. APC/DUI, actual physical control. I was in 500 ft of my vehicle with my keys with a BAC over .08. I had the potential to drive drunk is what they told me. Ruined my life for over a year.
Reason to HATE cops!
This reeks of details being ommited. Somehow you called attention to yourself by threatening others or sexually harassing women in the area. Even then, sounds like you should have gotta lawyer to fiight the DWI part of it and just been charged with disorderly conduct.
@@srobeck77 wtf are you talking about. Apparently my stereo was too loud and they "got a call". Don't assume!
@@wahtoneguitars8793 so exactly like I said: you were stupid and called attention to yourself. On top of that, other details you conveniently left out (I can already tell your that guy) you told the cops "I know my rights!!! Fuck you coppers!!!!"
" . . . we would be living in an incredibly insane country. Well, unfortunately we are."
Astute observation Mr Flusche. Question is, what do we do about it?
Vote.
The 2nd Amendment was created for exactly this situation. It wasn't created for hunting.
@@jaynecobb3701 Good luck with that when both parties are corrupt and the elections are rigged anyways.
@@jaynecobb3701from the rooftops, right?
@@SchemingGoldberg Yeah, in 1787. Not a practical option these days.
Don't get me wrong -- I'm 100% pro 2nd Amendment. I'm just saying that if you try to shoot cops, even if they're violating your civil rights, it's not going to turn out well for you.
And just to add to the confusion.....long haul trucks have sleepers built into them. Absolutely DO NOT get caught with ANY alcohol (or empty containers) in a commercial vehicle unless it is manifested on the paperwork and sealed up in the cargo compartment. THAT will cost you !!
Canada has the really crazy DUI law. If you are found drunk anytime up to 2 hours after driving, you can get a DUI. This means, you can be sober and drive home from work. When you get home, you decide to have quite a few. The cop then speaks to you, sees you drunk, and the cop knows you just drove home, so you're within the 2 hours. You are now guilty of DUI.
Years ago when I lived in a small military town, there was a bar that was popular with younger service members. Pretty much a dive bar with cheap beer. Small town cops would wait around at closing time (2am-ish) and arrest everyone that put a key in the door to unlock the car, get in the backseat, even getting in as a passenger. One guy whole lived nearby was arrested because the cops didn't believe him when he told them he was walking home. It was a well known trap and revenue source for the town. Part of the base orientation for new arrivals included a whole section about strategies to avoid getting arrested at this place.
My brother-in-law was having a few drinks at a bar when he went to the car to get a pack of cigarettes out of the glove box. He got into the car in the driver's seat out of sheer habit and was reaching across to the glove box when there was the po-po suddenly. He had no intent on driving but got a DUI anyway because "He could have started the car and taken off at any time." At least, that's the way the cops spun it.
That's BS
I'll take "Sh*t that didn't happen for $1,000, Alex".
@@ligmasack9038 I've heard of too many cases like this or worse (sober driver leaves the heat on in sub-zero temps with passed out passenger in the back to run inside and get something and police arrest passed out passenger for DUI) to disbelieve it.
@@ligmasack9038 The police in many places can seize the car and give you a DUI as soon as you touch your car.
I sat in on a case in court one day where the cop who came to the scene of an accident (just one guy's car) was being questioned. The guy was outside of the car by the time the cop got there. And because nobody actually saw him driving the car, the case was dismissed. I learned something that day.
Very interesting.
I once observed a van, off the side of the interstate, so I stopped to investigate. I found the driver slumped over the wheel
and ended up arresting the him for DUI. At the trial, his defense attorney stated that his client, realizing that he may have had
too much to drink and had deliberately pulled off the interstate to sleep it off. Therefore, since I had not seen him driving and
it was not against the law to pull off the side of the road, I had no right to arrest him. At this point, I advised the court that he
had driven off the interstate, down a 50 foot embankment and ended up in a swampy area. He was asleep, slumped over the
steering wheel, the engine was still running, the transmission was in gear and the rear wheels were turning. The defense attorney
looked at the judge and said no further questions.
Find a really good place to hide your keys away from your vehicle. Just make sure you remember where that is. Then you can sleep anywhere you want in the vehicle and say that you no longer have your keys if approached by police.
When I was younger, we had a friend we couldn't find the next morning after a party out in the middle of nowhere. We started calling his name and a few minutes later the trunk of his car pops open. He said he's slept it off in the trunk many times. Cops and potential criminals can't see you in there. Good thing he had a car with an inner safety release for the trunk.
EDIT: Since this was the middle of nowhere and on private property the threat of him being arrested or mugged were minimal. He said he was worried about critters out there, instead.
If the United States had decent public transit and sane urban planning like most other 1st world countries, DUIs wouldn’t be nearly as big of an issue. One of the bad things about car dependency is that it increases police-public contacts.
To be on the safe side, I have always followed the rule "If unable to safely drive and need to sleep it off, the key goes under the rear tire and I go in the back seat/rear of vehicle".
So what if my wife is driving my drunk ass home? Is that a DUI? What if I have a set of keys in my pocket (because I drove to the restaurant, she drove back)?
This is why respect for the law and law enforcement is going out the window.
Back in my college days, when I'd sleep it off in my car, I'd first hide the keys outside of the car. Hard to be "in control of the car/truck" if the keys are not on your person and can't even be located by the police officers.
In England [sic] the term is "in charge of". That includes being asleep in bed at home with the keys sitting by the door. It's got ridiculous.
Had this conversation years ago with my Uncle who was a Police Officer at the time. He told me to get a magnetic key holder. Put the car key inside and stick it under the car. If asked tell them a friend took them and will return them in the morning.
I recall one time when a person sitting in a vehicle that had no engine, up on blocks with no tires or transmission 😊was given a DUI Citation.
Yes indeed, thought crimes. In Okla, if you are drunk and are even walking towards your vehicle (even if you are only going to get something out of it), that constitutes actual physical control. Same for sleeping in the vehicle if the keys are in the vehicle (if you have them in the trunk, or in one of those magnetic holders inside the bumper, you are Probably ok, but can still be arrested). Then you get to pay the towing and impound fees, and possibly attorney fees, missed work etc. So, just Uber, taxi or go with a DD or just walk. Besides, it doesn't take much to blow a .08
I pulled over 2am in the middle of nowhere after going to a keg party back in the 80's because I realized I was to drunk to drive.
I woke up with a state trooper knocking on my window with his flashlight.
He asked me what I was doing and I told him I was to drunk to drive last night (It was 7:30am at this time) so I pulled over and crashed.
He told me "Smart, are you good to drive now?"
I said yes and he let me leave.
I wish all cops were like that guy.
You should have gone to jail. Now slap yourself for being stupid and don't do that again because you were wrong, not right to have driven halfway home to begin with.
Love your channel… it’s a must watch in the sea of social media attorney content…
Back in the day some friends had a boat docked in a marina that had an area for camping. I used to party with them and sleep in the parking lot in the back of my car. I was aware of the DUI laws, so I always put my keys in a cabinet by their picnic table. If there was ever an issue with the police, I did not have the keys in my possession or in the vehicle.
Great video! We live in an insane country
In most states, there are laws that says you can do something and laws that says you cannot.
It is all up to the criminal that stopped you.
Every state, county, city, town, and agency has it's own laws that conflict with each other.
Each wanting to control everything you do or say and take your money.
Officer I am wasted, I am so drunk there is no way I could "operate this vehicle."
One of my employers stopped to help a distressed motorist on the side of the snowy road. He had drank a few beers previously and when the troopers showed up he ended up getting a DUI.
He wasn't driving when the troopers showed up and wasn't even in his truck but was still arrested.
I think I would put my keys in the trunk of the car. That way I could get to them, but in no way could they be considered easily accessible. Of course, that only works if your car has a trunk.
I wonder if you could pull a cable off of the battery, making the car inoperable. Then attach it back after you sober up. 🤔
Thank you so much for this video brotha ...this video is going to help a lot of people and educate vanlifers.
my friend did. he wasn't under the influence and the cop didn't even read him his Maranda rights. he got a big fine and then also and to pay room and board (they made him pay to stay in jail like it was a hotel) he got food poisoning and left work early because he was extremally exhausted, he was going to drive home but just ended up sleeping in his car. he woke up with a cop knocking on his window. the officers name was officer gentile and everyone calls him officer genital in my town. the cop got busted for that and an assault charge (he had a confrontation with someone suffering from BPD and they didn't immediately submit to his authority because they were having an episode and weren't capable of doing so, he ended up smashing their teeth into the pavement (cops not understanding how to de escalate situations involving mental illness has been a chronic issue in my town, cops demand complete submission to their authority and sometimes people are literally not capable of doing so)) and now he's a school SRO officer and has to stand around around a bunch of shithead highschoolers.
8:08 another option, if you're somewhere you frequent, is give the bartender your keys and ask them to hold on to them while you sleep it off.
Then where is the bartender with your keys when you wake up at 6 AM?
Imagine being a cop and telling your kids you are one of the "good guys."
Imagine being a parent and telling your criminal kid thats he the "good guy" and the cops are just the fun suppressors. Youve failed at the game of life at this point.
In strict states, having your own dui interlock removes your ABULITY to drive intoxicated
key in the acc position, that is very much up to the cop to actually look and honestly note that EXCULPATORY evidence. i would not count on that happening.
running it for heat while not actually in it, REMOTE START.
you can have it added for probably under $100 on most cars. and if buying new, get that option.
even outside of snow country, you can fire up your AC 30 seconds before you get in and go. your lubrication systems got flowing full, and the touch of warmup time if it was cold doesn't hurt your motor either.
no keys, no DUI in most cases, and it's not an 'unattended running vehicle" either.
1978, I was drinking shots of JD with friends, had to go 60 miles to get home. Made it 10 miles and pulled in to a rest stop, took the keys and left them on the floor while I climbed into the back seat. When I awoke at 6AM I noticed a State Police car parked next to me. Did they try to wake me??? I don't know but they weren't in their car and I left ASAP. My Dad (an attorney) always said I was born under a lucky star. I guess so.
So your stupid and drove drunk to get to the rest stop. Anyone present you will this bit of reality?
I had friends talk about throwing their keys away when they get stopped, like it would make some sort of difference
It might if the police don't see you driving the vehicle, and don't see you toss the keys.
You just earned yourself a subscription!
Killer advice man,I love this type of content because it relates exactly to me sir
Regarding your advice to "sit on the sidewalk" instead of in your vehicle,
can't you then be charged with the crime of Public Intoxication?
Sure, it is a lesser crime than DUI, but still not a great position to be in.
What's the downside (legally) to leaving your car keys with the bartender overnight?
The bar tender probably doesn't get back to work until 6PM the next day.
I've seen a case in a video that was dismissed because an RV had its jacks deployed and the cops did not get a search warrant. they said that it could not be readily driven. do you think this is right?
I was told a long time ago (1980's), that you should put your keys in the engine compartment ( on the air filter ), let the cops search if they want, no keys in your possession.
This put an idea into my head- what if you had a lock box with a breathalyzer lock? Put your keys in there and it’s impossible to remove or use the keys until you can blow under .08 or .03 or whatever. Would that be enough to not be in control of the vehicle, even if accessories were turned on but the car was not able to be driven?
Similarly, what if keys were in a lockbox with a combination lock instead, but you refuse to give up the combination?
It would make things SO SIMPLE if people only got DUI’s for, you know, Driving while Under the Influence!
Was the person drunk? Yeah. We’re they driving? No. Send them back to bed to sleep it off.
And so in this scenario, the drunken person wakes up an hour or 2 later, thinking they are sober (because thats what drinking does, it impairs judgement), drives off and kills one of your relatives coming home on the late shift.
Yes, that happens and thats why this law exists. You reallly didnt think this out from all angles as it turns out and now your relative is dead. And its the hardworking one thats is well liked. Not the deadbeat and unemployed one sleeping safe in your home on the couch.
@@srobeck77 How far into potential crime do you think prosecution is appropriate? Should you get a speeding ticket right now because it's very likely you'll break the speed limit some time in your life? Should your insurance go up now because you might have a cooking fire in the future? Should every dog come with a citation for an unrestrained animal?
"You reallly didnt think this out from all angles..." you might want to find yourself a mirror. It's very unethical to prosecute people for crimes they may potentially commit or have not committed.
@@zugmeister314 in this example then yes you should. If your impaired and sitting in a car, jail time. Too many innocent people killed this way once they "think" they are ok to drive again an hour later.
Similarly, If you walk into a bank with a ski mask + gun in hand, u should also be arrested before committing the crime. More similarities, on that pedo show, To Catch a Predator, they arrest the adult once he shows up to the house with candy, stuffed animals, and wine coolers intending to have sex with 12 or 14 years. The crime "didnt happen yet". But yup, jail time for you pedophile.
How would the law interpret a scenario such as those described with one additional element: a breathalyzer ignition interlock (or another such device that would prevent the operation of the vehicle while you are impaired)?
The cop may not care and arrest you anyway. The judge, however, will care and dismiss the case.
@@Accrovideogames I've never seen anyone use "judge" and "care" in the same sentence.
Just got around to watching video, one of your better ones.
GREAT INFO! We love to take road trips and stealth camp in our vehicle. When we are sleeping near a paved road (like truck stops, rest areas, parking lots, etc.) we will be more careful to not drink alcohol.
The more appropriate question is: "Will a cop gleefully ruin your life in enforcing any law on the books even though you're not harming anyone or putting anyone in danger?" The short answer is "Yes, he will".
Majority of the time, no they will not. The stupid inside of you will dream this up, but reality should slap you across the face at some point that this isnt true.
@@srobeck77 Your reply to my statement boggles me. I've had very few interactions with cops, but some of them displayed utter contempt for my rights by searching without probable cause, and I've known plenty of people that happened to have only a few drinks getting charged with a dui even though they're perfectly safe to drive. Granted, my experience is limited, but it's not hard to extrapolate it into what I previously said, especially when youtube is FULL of such scenarios.
@@Alaninbroomfield thats because your a criminal and do criminals things to call attention to yourself. And the tiny percentage on TH-cam, is only because they are entertaining (how are you not smart enough to know this by now). Regular traffic stops will never be seen on youtube, because no one wants to watch that.
@@Alaninbroomfield Im not buying even a quarter of the lies your rolling with here bruh. "After a few drinks" as you claim (which we all know when someone says 2 beers it actually means 6-7), once you get to the police station that have that official breathalyzer to confirm it all.
So either your completely full of it, or your referencing maybe the 70's before breathalyzers? Even way, total non-sense here.
@@srobeck77 Just because you're officially over the limit doesn't mean you're not perfectly safe to drive. If you've been having a few drinks many days of the week for DECADES and not causing a problem, cops should be exercising DISCRETION and not needlessly disrupting lives. When I was growing up in the 70's and 80's, the cop would say "Please go straight home" and "Have a good night" conveying that he could've clearly gone the DUI route, but didn't. It's not like that anymore, now they bust people for DUI any chance they get. This includes drawing for blood simply because the cops says he smells pot in the car. This is not how peace officers in a free society should be conducting themselves.
I seen a video where cops arrested a guy for operating a motor vehicle while intoxicated when car was up on blocks with no engine in it, all because the guy wouldn't stroke their ego by answering their questions.
Cops are basically a bunch middle age teen girls who need constant praise and validation.
You can feel free to move to lawless California if you wanna whine like a child and hurl insults at cops. Go there get robbed and see widespread drug use in the open on the streets. That tell come back and tell us how you feel about having no cops or laws.
I regret that I have but one upvote to give. I've been looking for these answers for weeks.
Love your videos
Cops in Fla have a saying: "You can beat the rap, but you can't beat the ride." Meaning, if you tell a cop, "You can't give me a ticket for DUI, I'm not even in the car!" they can give you the ticket, arrest you, ride you down to the jail, and hold you for a few hours. You go to court, the cop may not even show up, and . . . you beat the rap, but not the ride. If you don't fight it in court, well, the rap is on your record. Moral: ALWAYS be polite, respectful, and careful while protecting your rights in a police encounter.
Or just don’t drink alcohol, at all. It’s extremely easy to not do.
Or don't have a vehicle, easier still, and saves a lot of money.
this is a classic example of a law that was passed under noble circumstances but then was turned into a money grabbing scheme.
In the Eighties, I worked with a triple DUI coworker who would sleep in his car when drunk frequently.
He had modified his radio so it would play at any time regardless of the ignition. He'd sleep in the back seat with the trunk key in the glove box and the ignition key locked in the trunk (yes kids, there actually were vehicles back then that you needed a key to open and some where there were two different keys)
He claimed he "beat" further DUIs this way.
I've practiced law since 2000. The idea I have for how to avoid a DUI when you need to sleep it off in your car is to hide your keys somewhere outside the vehicle where LE cannot find them. Then when you wake up and ready to leave you go retrieve them and drive away. If for some reason you need to have a story, you can say your friends drove you there and left you with your car and hid the keys, and in the morning or some amount of time later after you've sobered up they will tell you where the keys are hidden. Without keys you cannot be in physical control.
Here in PA, I know of a district attorney's son who threw his keys under the car and crawled into the back seat to sleep. He was arrested and convicted of DUI. The argument was that if he had the wherewithal to put his keys under the vehicle, he could have retrieved them any time and drove off. I guess "damned if you do, damned if you don't" applies here.
In Kentucky you can be drunk out of your mind and sitting behind the wheel, but as long as the keys aren't in the ignition or on your person, you won't be charged with DWI/DUI/OWI. At least that used to be the case.
Where are the keys if they are not on your person? Even keys in the back seat will start your car if they are electronic keys.
@@anonnymowse they can be in the glovebox, the center console or on the floor. Anywhere but on you or in the ignition. Now, with so many new cars using keyless fobs and push to start buttons I don't know how that works, the laws could have changed.
My answer would be to just continue to sleep. If your vehicle is parked legally, and locked up just don't acknowledge that they are there. Especially if you have tinted windows or you are covered up in the back. They can't arrest you if they don't know you are there.
In Montana, your vehicle is considered an extention of your residence. 😊
If you have a sedan sleep in the trunk, if they can’t see you they can’t arrest you. And if they happen to find you just say you don’t know how you got in there and thank them for letting you out
I live in a class a motorhome full-time. Travel all over the United States. We park at Cracker Barrel‘s bass pro Walmart. All legal. On more than one occasion I have been woken up with a knock at the door in the middle of the night by the police wanting me to move for whatever reason. Which is ridiculous in the first place because I have every right to be where I was. I have told them that I cannot leave because I drank a couple of cocktails after I park for the night. We have the slides out and the stabilizers down. The vehicle isn’t driving anywhere. There isn’t a cop in this world that’s going to put me out on the street to move after I just told him that I drink before I went to bed. On those occasions they just said OK and left.
Even push button starters have accessory positions. I have Ford Escape. If i start the car without having my foot on the brake, it starts in accessory mode. If someone would lock me in the car with my key in my possession but using the keyless entry buttons on the outside of the door, my car would not start at all. The key is sleeping until it is unlocked with the keyless entry code. Of course, opening the door would set off a very loud alarm until I enter the code. That would be an interesting case that my key was not operational while I was sleeping in the vehicle.
"Under any conditions, anywhere, whatever you are doing, there is some ordinance under which you can be booked."
- Robert D. Sprecht, RAND CORP. -
This quote is like 35-40 years old. It hasn't gotten any better.
There was a time when "Don't make a Federal Case out of it." actually meant something. Nowadays, there are federal laws telling you if it's legal to have diarrhea after eating convenience store sushi...
I have to say, your answer to this question makes it clear that the law is A Fucking ASS, for any jurisdiction it applies in.
It totally ignores the INTENT of those laws, because the real fact is, they exist to support public safety. The defendant in this case is not creating a danger to public safety if the car is NOT being driven while the defendant is unable to safely do so, and as long as the vehicle is not in a "bad place", such as partly on the road rather than pulled completely off**. Even more importantly, the person in question has recognized, of their own cognizance, that they are not in a state to be driving a vehicle, and has exercised prudence and good, social behavior. THIRDLY it engages a, "Well, I'm fucked either way, so I might as well drive home instead of staying off the road." kind of thought process.
It's the kind of legal interpretation which qualifies as seriously ephtarded. The application of Laws SHOULD generally be examined based on the intent of the law. Sometimes, this is not clear, but in this case, these laws exist for the sole purpose of protecting people from acting irresponsibly with a deadly tool such as a car. To punish someone for ACTING responsibly is just wrong on so many levels.
NOT doubting your interpretation. It just shows that our court system, as with so many other governmental systems, has gotten completely and utterly out of control.
========
** and no, sorry, the assertion, "Well, you COULD get into the driver's seat and drive off while still intoxicated", is idiocy. I can be drunk AT HOME and still decide to get behind the wheel and DWI. Only the actual behavior of DWI should enable you to be given a ticket for... DWI.
every time i hear a lawyer say never to talk to the police i think of my city's response to the 2020 protests for racial justice which was, in part, the creation of the Huntsville Police Citizens Advisory Council (HPCAC) which is a group of citizens and police which hold regular meetings around the city, inviting the public to come talk to the cops. it's supposed to be an open meeting that allows us to get to know the police , ask them questions, learn about how they work etc. i've been to a couple meetings and it's been interesting but i've always wondered how many people in the room were practicing attorneys and what their advice would be in this scenario.
Former LEO here. All it truly takes for you to be in "operation" of a vehicle is to simply have access to your keys and that's enough to get you charged with a DUI; seen it happen way too many times. My advice is this: get a small lockbox that's difficult to open when you're sober like a combination lock; and when you're going to be drunk in your car, put your keys into it, lock it, and place it in the trunk. This is the only surefire way to never be in "operation" of your vehicle because you can argue that you neither have neither easy access nor a speedy way to get your car actually moving. Also, have all your paperwork in hand because they will ask for it.
"Ignorance of the law is no excuse" as they say. Yet all of this is anything but intuitive. We're expected to know all the rules, but the rules are entirely ad-hoc.