When you understand navy, then the only problem with navy becomes that the hoi4 start time dosent start earlier. Meaning you dont really have time to build a good navy as a smaller nation
Even as a larger nation like Germany, all you can typically do is refit existing ships and maybe build one battleship or a couple of heavy cruisers and a few destroyers
not just that, but the production system is kinda stupid too, even US kinda wont be able to match the actual numbers of warships produced during ww2, they had a hundred of escort carrier, and when i try to immitate, the cheapest i could produce is 2 unit per year per slot with 5 dockyards with +75% dockyard output, in order to immitate i need at least 15-20 slots which equals to 75-100 dockyard in span of 3 years, how do we even reach at that level? not to mention other ship like screen etc
@@aleksandrmikhail3803 i do get that but i feel like the us would have made so many dockyards historically because they probably didnt make the same ratio of mils and docks as you would in a normal hoi4 game. In other words they probably made a bunch of docks irl
@@aleksandrmikhail3803 usa should get a escort carrier unique that is designed to be cheap and hunt subs instead of engage in fleet battles. right now germany gets most of the unique ships lol
2:50 when Feedback mouse was hovering italians dead destroyers - there was a tooltip with detail explanation of damage that received dead destroyers. 0 mentioning of heavy damage. And yet 10 seconds later he says that italian screen were sinked by heavy damage from french. First Italian CL (RI Taranto) was sinked by critical hit from torpedo. Zoomed (at 3:38) "first light cruiser" italian was actually heavy cruiser and was first sinked italian ship with mention of heavy damage. Since "heavy damage for heavy ships". At 3:48 long shot with detail info on italian capitals saying of how much dmg from naval bombers they getting. This could be important, since Italian does not have a naval bombers and 0 stats from naval bombers was mentioned at the top panel with all damage types and values from both sides. Missed damage source from French. At 4:34 shot with detail info on french capitals. Info showing that most of dmg came from heavy guns, dmg from torpedoes is almost irrelevant. Not what Feedback saying. His conclusion for results of the battle that heavy damage of French navy obliterated Italian screen is not confirmed by any evidence of combat that I could recognize from this video. Also - it contradicts basic idea of navy warfare that can be simplified as "heavy damage for heavy ship" and "light damage for light ships". This simplification definitely missing something since 2nd battle shows American destroyers with heavy damage, but I did not saw anything of this in ITAvFRA battle. I understand that navy in HOI4 is difficult subject, but these videos is not helping to understand all the mechanics. It creates illusion of false knowledge that would lead to more unpredictable navy battles and more misunderstanding of navy warfare mechanics in this game.
Funny, I said this once(Cruisers with loads of light attack combined with torpedo destroyers) on Feedback stream years back and he was like "ThAt Is NoT a ThInG". And now he is making a video about it.
The navy game is such nostalgia for me. Anyone ever play PTOIV? Pacific Theater of Operations 4. Old PS2 game. Played so many hours in ur building and designing ships. One of the main reasons why I love the navy game in HOI
I saw in a video that heavy damage doesn't matter, what matters for navies is having as much piercing and armour as possible. My strat (that is good in vanilla without cheesing dumb cruisers) is: Research everything that increases piercing Actually use armour use the fire drill researches. basically, the dmg you deal depends on how much you can pierce the enemy ship, if piercing is low the debuff is absurd. Then the more you pierce, the higher the likelyhood of dealing "critical hits" that obliterate the enemy ship. In sum, imho, it's worth it to for ex refit capital ships to increase piercing (even when they take 100+ days) and use armour. Also, you can make spotting better is you use some crappy subs in another fleet set on "never engage" on a patrol mission in the area. Hope it helps. Correct me if you think differently.
Saw the guides and started doing navy and I'm actually starting to win (against the AI anyway) so thank you Feedback I can finally rebuild a not horrible high seas fleet!
Watched all navy videos, but I think I'll keep my strategy. Spamming good torpedo destroyers and then a single Dreadnought with all modules and making it Pride of the Fleet, just after that I think about building other supports like Cruisers
10:48 I’m pretty sure that you counter those light cruisers by making the same template but without the armour, so that it’s lower cost and you can have more of them.
you forget that light cruisers need 1 medium light attack battery, max hit chance, max speed, low visibility, a torpedo bay and lvl 1 armor. it protects against destroyers and makes you do more damage as the tooltip says
1) From where do I get the information that my fleet is too big? How to know how my stats are affected? 2) Is it possible to have multiple fleets in one battle? Why dont split the fleet during a battle? Why dont have 20 unique fleets in one battle, instead of one deadstack?
You'll see it in positioning. The bigger it is, the more debuff to positioning you get. It'll also have other Debuffs aswell. The 4-6 screens per heavy ship is accurate and often times the easiest way to accomplish that is 4 destroyers and 2 light cruisers per heavy/capital ship will give you the most bang for your buck. At max the most amount of capital ships you'll have in a fleet is 8 excluding carriers and by then you'll have a very large stack that is still effective at combating smaller fleets well as big death stack fleets.
It is possible have multiple fleets show up to a single battle if they're stationed near each other or the battle lasts long enough. You can have a meat grinder of sub fleets involved in the same action lasting days.
I saw in another (older) naval guide that the meta was: destroyers filled with torpedo launchers combined with heavy cruisers with Main heavy gun, but for the rest only secondary guns for soft attack. I don't know if it still works.
are torpedoes from naval bombers impacted by the presence of screen ships (other than AA, of course), or do they bypass screens and directly target capital ships?
When it comes to armored CAs with full light atack you can defeat them with CAs without armor and cause they are cheaper and if you get Tier 3 guns you have high enough percing to deal significant dmg to armored ones and remember since you are cheaper you have more guns and it tends to snowball fast. Also if you know someone is doing no armor cruisers light attack i belive you can win with light attack destroyers but im not sure on that one.
Then is there any need for capital ships? Only use light cruisers with high light attack to shred the screens and destroyers with torpedoes to sink capital ships should be enough to kill the enemy fleet. Or i missing something?
Thats the real meta, yes. Spam torpedo destroyers and sprinkle in some light attack cruisers. Battleships dont really do anything special. Carriers do lots of DPS but are unneeded.
Why wouldn't you just mass armored light cruisers? If heavy attacks are only good against heavy ships, and torpedoes from light ships wreck heavies anyway, wouldn't you be best off just making light ships with lots of light attack, armor to protect against light attack, and torpedoes to clean up the enemy heavies?
Light cruiser spam is very effective but cruisers are expensive so unless you have some destroyers that are HP absorbers you'll loose alot of your cruisers very quickly. Also don't forget that if you don't have sufficient AA you'll loose more cruisers to carriers then you will to battle ships.
There is this kind of rock paper scissors to the meta. Light armored cruisers murder dds. Heavy attack cruisers kill light attack cruisers. Torpedo dds kill heavy attack cruisers. And then theres carriers that kills all, but very expensive.
Thanks for these videos, I didn‘t fucking understand anything, now I do, but I am shit with templates for divisions, could you maybe doa video about it?
They need to add massive debuffs for overall fleet size like they do with the carriers. A couple years ago they put in a positioning debuff for having a deathstack, but still having the biggest fleet possible overcame that penalty.
When you understand navy, then the only problem with navy becomes that the hoi4 start time dosent start earlier. Meaning you dont really have time to build a good navy as a smaller nation
Even as a larger nation like Germany, all you can typically do is refit existing ships and maybe build one battleship or a couple of heavy cruisers and a few destroyers
超級愚蠢的遊戲設定，你只能在主力艦上使用五個工廠，耗費15K的生產點數
而一般護衛艦可以用十個工廠，只有1K的生產點數
not just that, but the production system is kinda stupid too, even US kinda wont be able to match the actual numbers of warships produced during ww2, they had a hundred of escort carrier, and when i try to immitate, the cheapest i could produce is 2 unit per year per slot with 5 dockyards with +75% dockyard output, in order to immitate i need at least 15-20 slots which equals to 75-100 dockyard in span of 3 years, how do we even reach at that level? not to mention other ship like screen etc
@@aleksandrmikhail3803 i do get that but i feel like the us would have made so many dockyards historically because they probably didnt make the same ratio of mils and docks as you would in a normal hoi4 game. In other words they probably made a bunch of docks irl
@@aleksandrmikhail3803 usa should get a escort carrier unique that is designed to be cheap and hunt subs instead of engage in fleet battles. right now germany gets most of the unique ships lol
2:50 when Feedback mouse was hovering italians dead destroyers - there was a tooltip with detail explanation of damage that received dead destroyers. 0 mentioning of heavy damage.
And yet 10 seconds later he says that italian screen were sinked by heavy damage from french.
First Italian CL (RI Taranto) was sinked by critical hit from torpedo.
Zoomed (at 3:38) "first light cruiser" italian was actually heavy cruiser and was first sinked italian ship with mention of heavy damage. Since "heavy damage for heavy ships".
At 3:48 long shot with detail info on italian capitals saying of how much dmg from naval bombers they getting. This could be important, since Italian does not have a naval bombers and 0 stats from naval bombers was mentioned at the top panel with all damage types and values from both sides. Missed damage source from French.
At 4:34 shot with detail info on french capitals. Info showing that most of dmg came from heavy guns, dmg from torpedoes is almost irrelevant. Not what Feedback saying.
His conclusion for results of the battle that heavy damage of French navy obliterated Italian screen is not confirmed by any evidence of combat that I could recognize from this video. Also - it contradicts basic idea of navy warfare that can be simplified as "heavy damage for heavy ship" and "light damage for light ships". This simplification definitely missing something since 2nd battle shows American destroyers with heavy damage, but I did not saw anything of this in ITAvFRA battle.
I understand that navy in HOI4 is difficult subject, but these videos is not helping to understand all the mechanics. It creates illusion of false knowledge that would lead to more unpredictable navy battles and more misunderstanding of navy warfare mechanics in this game.
I saw and heard the same thing. Sometimes streamers misspeak if they are in a hurry. Gave him a pass, because most of what he said was accurate.
後台數據，你覺得有人動手腳嗎?
@@themacker894if he's doing a guide video, he should prepare accordingly
I watched all 3 navy tutorials and today I beat the British navy with nothing but a repurposed fishing boat and 4 pointy rocks. Can highly recommend 👍
iceland in the cod wars be like:
Funny, I said this once(Cruisers with loads of light attack combined with torpedo destroyers) on Feedback stream years back and he was like "ThAt Is NoT a ThInG". And now he is making a video about it.
saying things in an authoritative voice often makes up for a lack of actual knowledge
Feedback admits he's wrong sometimes. Shame he didn't here but blud has done a lot of streams lol.
well depends how long ago since meta was not the same
The navy game is such nostalgia for me. Anyone ever play PTOIV? Pacific Theater of Operations 4. Old PS2 game. Played so many hours in ur building and designing ships. One of the main reasons why I love the navy game in HOI
I played the older PTO's, they were crazy fun. All the KOEI games back then were the best in the genre
That navy invasion sound at the beggining triggerd my ptsd
I saw in a video that heavy damage doesn't matter, what matters for navies is having as much piercing and armour as possible. My strat (that is good in vanilla without cheesing dumb cruisers) is:
Research everything that increases piercing
Actually use armour
use the fire drill researches.
basically, the dmg you deal depends on how much you can pierce the enemy ship, if piercing is low the debuff is absurd. Then the more you pierce, the higher the likelyhood of dealing "critical hits" that obliterate the enemy ship.
In sum, imho, it's worth it to for ex refit capital ships to increase piercing (even when they take 100+ days) and use armour. Also, you can make spotting better is you use some crappy subs in another fleet set on "never engage" on a patrol mission in the area. Hope it helps. Correct me if you think differently.
retrofitting older starting cruisers with secondary batteries, and radar+computer for hit chance is very strong.
@@willywonka6487 yes but for god of love dont refit main bateries armor etc.
Saw the guides and started doing navy and I'm actually starting to win (against the AI anyway) so thank you Feedback I can finally rebuild a not horrible high seas fleet!
Awesome Dave - thanks. Was this the basic fleets, so no doctrines, no training, no officer corps, no 'damage control' tech etc ? Cheers MMM
Thanks to this series, ive been able to accomplish one of my childhood dreams; naval invade the UK as monarchist Sweden! 10/10!
Watched all navy videos, but I think I'll keep my strategy.
Spamming good torpedo destroyers and then a single Dreadnought with all modules and making it Pride of the Fleet, just after that I think about building other supports like Cruisers
10:48 I’m pretty sure that you counter those light cruisers by making the same template but without the armour, so that it’s lower cost and you can have more of them.
Tier 3 and Tier 4 armour on cruisers can't be penetrated by any light gun.
Torpedo/Carrier strike/Land NAV is the way
@@Nexsyana Ah ok thanks for clarifying 👍
you forget that light cruisers need 1 medium light attack battery, max hit chance, max speed, low visibility, a torpedo bay and lvl 1 armor.
it protects against destroyers and makes you do more damage as the tooltip says
Great video. Sure enjoyed it. Thanks!
Great series!
When next part in the navy series?
Thanks for this Video. I complete suck at Navy Battles. I know what to do to win. But how to do really good is still a Miystery to me.
1) From where do I get the information that my fleet is too big? How to know how my stats are affected?
2) Is it possible to have multiple fleets in one battle? Why dont split the fleet during a battle? Why dont have 20 unique fleets in one battle, instead of one deadstack?
You'll see it in positioning. The bigger it is, the more debuff to positioning you get. It'll also have other Debuffs aswell. The 4-6 screens per heavy ship is accurate and often times the easiest way to accomplish that is 4 destroyers and 2 light cruisers per heavy/capital ship will give you the most bang for your buck. At max the most amount of capital ships you'll have in a fleet is 8 excluding carriers and by then you'll have a very large stack that is still effective at combating smaller fleets well as big death stack fleets.
It is possible have multiple fleets show up to a single battle if they're stationed near each other or the battle lasts long enough. You can have a meat grinder of sub fleets involved in the same action lasting days.
I saw in another (older) naval guide that the meta was: destroyers filled with torpedo launchers combined with heavy cruisers with Main heavy gun, but for the rest only secondary guns for soft attack. I don't know if it still works.
Dave, any Vici 3 videos planned in future?
are torpedoes from naval bombers impacted by the presence of screen ships (other than AA, of course), or do they bypass screens and directly target capital ships?
Danke!
question. can submarine torpedoes still leak through regardless of 100% screen efficiency?
When will we finish the Feedbackgaming Navy tree
When it comes to armored CAs with full light atack you can defeat them with CAs without armor and cause they are cheaper and if you get Tier 3 guns you have high enough percing to deal significant dmg to armored ones and remember since you are cheaper you have more guns and it tends to snowball fast.
Also if you know someone is doing no armor cruisers light attack i belive you can win with light attack destroyers but im not sure on that one.
Im not good at the game what so ever but with these guides im actually learning something.
Knowledge is Power!
Then is there any need for capital ships?
Only use light cruisers with high light attack to shred the screens and destroyers with torpedoes to sink capital ships should be enough to kill the enemy fleet.
Or i missing something?
Thats the real meta, yes. Spam torpedo destroyers and sprinkle in some light attack cruisers. Battleships dont really do anything special. Carriers do lots of DPS but are unneeded.
我們都同意吧? 海軍戰鬥真的需要重新再做
isnt the MIO with +1 deckspace better than the 50% bad wheather?
I would say that the bad weather penalty is so harsh, even more on carrier, that reducing it will do far more than having one more deckspace.
Victoria part 1 when
When you understand navy you realise that it doesn't worth to waste resources on it untill late game
Why wouldn't you just mass armored light cruisers? If heavy attacks are only good against heavy ships, and torpedoes from light ships wreck heavies anyway, wouldn't you be best off just making light ships with lots of light attack, armor to protect against light attack, and torpedoes to clean up the enemy heavies?
Light cruiser spam is very effective but cruisers are expensive so unless you have some destroyers that are HP absorbers you'll loose alot of your cruisers very quickly. Also don't forget that if you don't have sufficient AA you'll loose more cruisers to carriers then you will to battle ships.
There is this kind of rock paper scissors to the meta. Light armored cruisers murder dds. Heavy attack cruisers kill light attack cruisers. Torpedo dds kill heavy attack cruisers.
And then theres carriers that kills all, but very expensive.
1:46 注意看! 法國的潛艇超級多的，是德軍的三倍
所以軸心國的朋友，記得讓DD戴上反潛的裝備
Luckily (or unfort) the AI doesnt really make torpedo destroyers so light attack cruisers are king
Thanks for these videos, I didn‘t fucking understand anything, now I do, but I am shit with templates for divisions, could you maybe doa video about it?
I'm a big fan of the naval side of the game but man I wish they could move away from death stacks!
They need to add massive debuffs for overall fleet size like they do with the carriers. A couple years ago they put in a positioning debuff for having a deathstack, but still having the biggest fleet possible overcame that penalty.
I just stink at Navy. I can’t get enough ships to do anything. I usually just build SS to suicide into bigger navies.
or you could just rush sub 4 with snorkle and a "stealthy" general.
hm
Guys, how to make Spain settelite while playing USSR ??? I try mane things - but Spain do not take needed focus....