How NOT To Take Criticism!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 พ.ย. 2024
- Today we look into how not to respond to minor criticism!
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Right around the time I uploaded this, Sarah did publicly apologize for the reasons I talk about in this video.
The apology can be seen here: twitter.com/sarahdessen/status/1195431073892749315
I think we disagree on what makes for a good, sincere apology.
Jessica Stellmann I think the comments section under the apology agrees with you. Savage AF.
I doubt its genuine. She first removed the original post and posted a "Whelp lesson learned" tweet which was pretty vague. She only posted the apology when people replied to the "lesson learned" tweet asking for an actual direct apology. Not to mention the fact that she deliberately cropped out the fact that the student wanted to cover a book about racism in the american justice system instead of her YA romance. Ultimately only Sarah knows if it was a malicious attempt to missrepresent and put down criticism thats shes only apologising for because its convenient or if it was a rash and missinformed lashing out that she truly regrets. But theres enough to suggest to me that Sarah is probably not a good person
@Susi Reads Books I haven't read the apology so I am taking that into account when considering this and not drawing any conclusions, but just at reading your comment what is derogatory about "the person who" in this context? I just genuinely dont understand and would like to accidentally avoid using derogatory language myself. To me, it just sounds like an attempt not to give that person more negative publicity. Could you explain what you mean by "derogatory"?
The fuck? It looks genuine? The fuck?!
YA author resents that YA genre is treated as a juvenile genre. Decides to prove it's not true by… behaving in a very juvenile way. Smart strategy.
🤣🤣🤣🤣
YA is shit.
@@borgir80 And I ain't gonna stop writing it XD
@@elijahj.alfred6632 I also read YA. But the whole thing is just repetitive. All plots are the same, all characters are just skins of other characters from other YA books.
Leigh Bardugo is a great YA author for me. But many, many, overwhelmingly may YA books are just shit.
@@borgir80 YA isn't a genre, it's a demographic. Sure it's tropes overrun the vast majority of it's content, but it's outlandish premises are what draws me in. I'm hoping my work will help change the way content is made within that demographic, but I won't know until it's out ^_^
"If you are not able to take criticism, you are not worthy of getting praise"
Halle Berry at the accepting of RAZZIE award.
Razzie is bad right?
@@Abraham-om5ib yea
@@Abraham-om5ib A razzie is an award for bad performances etc. Kind of an opposite of the Oscars
@Abraham Ibarra It was catwoman
The comedian Tom Green started the tradition of actors accepting a Razzie. Sandra Bullock accepted one too. Green was funny though because he acted like he was truly happy and proud
Reminds me of the blood heir issue when a bunch of authors started calling a Chinese woman racist because she talked about slavery based on Chinese indenture and those authors thought slavery only happened in the US 🤣🤣🤣
Sophia Writes I remember that. It was unbelievable how ignorant some people are about history. People should read about the Roman Empire and the Greek city states.
That's the only slavery they care about. No one else exists, much less matters.
Or that only white people can be racist. Or that there is only one kind of racism.
So. Much. Ignorance.
Amerians are the very best self-centered, self-righteous, hypocrite jerks out there. Have firm and unshakable belief that they know how to play the victims and blame their failures on others that they claim to have multiple cultures living in harmony while the truth is America today is more racist than 1960s America? Unbelievable right? Well, just check Twitter all kinds of name calling black/white male/female all kinds of ridiculous stuff all the while they claim to be progressive?! More like regressive!
I love this guy, his bluntly honest about everything and isn’t afraid to say what he thinks
I can see this exact comment on an Alex Jones video. It just goes to show how important context is.
He doesn’t afraid of anything
I feel this! And he does it without being malicious. He's honest, smart, and kind
Honest with everything except WoT. He turns a blind eye to the flaws in there
@Cult Mechanicus pfft
No more "drama" videos for a while. This one just struck a nerve with me.
Daniel Greene new nothing about this but huge respect to you Daniel for making this vid, it’d be funny if she rants about you now haha - just saw her apology now that’s good timing
Keep em coming Dan, variety is the spice of life and I won't blame you for ranting about ludicrous issues such as this, once in a while instead of a book review. Good on you for taking a stand
But i likes them!
Seems like it, you caught a bit of the pissed internet bug too 😋
Sorry but I unsubscribed, some people feed off of drama videos but I can’t. Just not my thing. No hard feeling though. Best of luck on your youtube journey.
The student is acting more mature then the author. I applaud her maturity.
She's the true MVP
Even if the student had said something along the lines of "YA is terrible and has no place in an educational setting," they STILL shouldn't have been treated this way. How dare they have an opinion on something, right?
Honestly. “I didn’t want to read a book in a genre I don’t like.” is still a valid reason. Not a great one and I’d challenge the person to get out of their comfort zone and try things in different genres, still a valid one. You can’t shame people for not liking something or someone. Unless they’re actively harassing and hurting others, they are allowed to not like things and to express they don’t like something. Even if the student in question wasn’t taken out of context and just didn’t like YA, that is NO REASON to to get the level of personal attacks, insults, and harassment she did.
THIS like not everyone is going to like your books! Get over it!!
I mentioned this in my own video about the situation but it kills me that the University apologized to Dessen instead of supporting their alumna, how is it fair to apologize on their behalf because they had an opinion.???? As a university you should be fostering independent thought and diversity of opinion, not bending to the will of some insecure millionaire. The whole situation was absurd and I hope these authors get a grip, grow up and get a damn publicist. They don't need to be tweeting every time they receive in a small amount of critique. it is sick
Unfortunately that's uni's these days. The time of them sheltering experimental, independent young adults is dead. Now it's just business
i agree with you. it’s gross. however, YA authors and their followers have a history of mobbing anyone who dares criticise them so while i totally agree that university should have stuck by their alumna and examined the situation before caving in to dessen’s demands, it doesn’t surprise me to see an organisation scare easy and give in. YA authors are as childish as their books and they weaponise their large, immature fanbases in truly disgusting ways.
It is awful. But it is also self-preservation on the university's part. They have to stop the mob.
Well, easy decision for the institution to sacrifice some independent thinking but nobody college student than risk the wrath of the mainstream author with media influence.
That's how current world works...No Wrong Think allowed or you are erased.
@Yongo Bazuk But it was never about the books she chose. It was all about the fact that one person didn't like her books. We all have our preferences and many times we are affected by our political or social views. I haven't read books by this author and I can accept that the student was a little harsh. You can never know if you'll gain something from a book. But does that excuse the author's response? Ignoring the context in which all this took place, she should expect that not all people would like her books.
I don't think I want to read a book written by anyone this emotionally immature. How tf is this helping teen girls and the YA genre to be taken more seriously??
Lana Root to be honest it’s VERY rare for YA to be taken seriously. Most of its crap.
@@forrestdorman4870 From what YA I've read I agree. And it's no wonder, with writers who are this childish, what must their books be like?
@@forrestdorman4870 yeah
@@luxindreams I don't think we need to jump to belittling an entire genre based on one person's actions here
@@avendesora2495 YA it's, right now, in such a low creativity point that I can't help but agree with them. There are some "breath of fresh air" stories but, in general, it's as generic and formulaic as it could be.
More names to add to the "Never read a book from them" category.
too bad I already read 5 of them and purchased one! I won't read anymore of them or Jodi Picoult either.
@@peachblossom2803 what'd Jodi Picoult do?
Ooh. What did Jodi Picoult do? She used to be one of my favorites.
Never heard about this author before. And now I did it, won't buy her books.
Maria Paz G. Lesme her books are lame and boring. You’re not missing out. Her stories are basic stale bread.
Ditto
Yeah, it's not uncommon that artists, actors, authors etc are not necessarily... the best of people in their private lives. I try not to hold it against their works per se because obviously they can still have great value. (I shouldn't necessarily link the two, but I'm human and sometimes I've missed that type of prejudice until later) However, actively and publicly attacking another individual with intentional misrepresentations of their opinions for the sake of publicity or sympathy is on an entirely different level. Everybody has a right to defend their work from real attacks, but that didn't happen here. Sarah Dessen just exploited a situation for personal gain at the expense of someone else. Until she makes good on it; that makes her a bad person.
I know, I feel that way too now, which is really sad because I really enjoyed her books when I was kid. Now those stories will never be the same :(
@@sarahclayton5845 you grew up, unlike the author
I have a severe Twitter allergy. I never touch the stuff. Life is much calmer without it.
I watch the TH-cam videos explaining the stupidity, but otherwise never touch it
@@barryallen2240 DID YOU MESS UP THE TIMELINE AGAIN BARRY...Gary Green's name changed to Daniel Greene
@@geo1038 I thought it was danielle green
@@barryallen2240 you don't even know what you changed lucky you lost your speed
@@geo1038 Crap, I came back too far
as an avid reader of both adult and ya, sarah dessen is just mad her books suck lmfao
Big fan of your name, names? I like the starting and ending with G. Very pretty.
i too have four names, unfortunately they are all first names. :(
@@Yor_gamma_ix_bae Really? And I thought having three first names -like I do- was really unusual. How is it having four different names? Do you just write the initials of the names after the first, or do you write it all? I'm just really curious. And also did you ever use your different names to misguide or prank people. (I mean, that is a valid way to use so many names.)
I, Gabriella Ghovatto, have a dream. (Sorry had to make that JoJo reference)
Arijit Bhattacharjee lmao
Sarah J Maas about readers criticizing her books: "Well, they are entitled to their opinion. My books aren't perfect, I am not perfect. In the end, I am just glad this book got someone to read"
I just love how she doesn't let the (very frequent) criticism get to her but acknowledges her own mistakes at the same time. She's also the first to roast her first book.
*Paraphrased from her live stream at the beginning of covid-19
I may not like her books but she definitely sounds like someone I can respect.
I agree
She's not my cup of tea, but i can respect her as a person.
I knew somebody in the ACOTOR fandom who left a modest review with some critiques, Maas was very humble and gracious about it but the fans were just horrible.
She’s very gracious even though she’s one of the most hated YA Authors. I respect her in that alone.
More like Sarah Goodkind, amirite?
I assumed this video would be about him haha
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Burn.
As a teenage girl, I now seriously debate whether to ever read a Sarah Dessen book. Some of them look like they could be decent, but I don't think I could ever bring myself to read a book by (and therefore supporting) an author who has behaved so KNCREDIBLY poorly and caused such terrible behavior toward an innocent person.
Solution: library
Then you can't read most books in this world. You can read something without support if that's what you want
I'd like a list of the authors who joined in the bullying, I wouldn't want to accidentally read their work in case it reflects their values...or lack of them.
7:37 and 7:53 :)
Add N.K. Jemisin to it as well.
I really can’t believe these best selling authors are this ugly. Like even the author of the hate u give which got so much traction. Its rather depressing and massively disgusting. Why do they even care what a single college student thinks. I am 100% positive there are thousands of more people out there with who express worse thoughts on YA. Any one of these authors could ignore all of them and still have more money than their bank accounts than most everyone would have (and be doing nothing with it except wasting time on twitter harassing the literal “Young Adults” they should be writing for). Like were they that threatened by a single person not like their work?
Ugh, the fact that the university groveled & through the student under the bus is even more appalling!
And if they start harassing YOU over this video, don't you dare apologize or grovel in any way, shape, or fashion! That's what these insufferable bullies want. It's how they thrive. Don't EVER apologize to the online mob when you have done nothing wrong! That applies to every situation these days, not just this particular thing.
^ this
Exactly. Never apologize to a mob hoping that they will tear you apart last. It doesn't matter. Stand up the the mob and you will go down with dignity.
I enjoy a good YA novel from time to time, I find reading is an escape from the everyday. Because of what she did, I will never, ever read a Sarah Dessen, Siobhan Vivian, Tiffany D Jackson or Dhonielle Clayton book. Thank you for showcasing this.
I've read at least 3 books by Sara Dessen and I really enjoyed them. But they weren't college level reading. They were about teenage girls going through some things, albeit sometimes difficult things.
But they are not on the level of Just Mercy, the book the student was advocating for.
My thoughts as well! Dessen’s books are amazing for middle grade and lower level high schoolers, as they are engaging, well written and great introductions to symbolism. But they are absolutely not college level.
"They think im ONLY capable of saying/writing things that are brain-dead and childish and vapid? WE'LL ILL SHOW THEM! I'LL SHOW ALL OF THEM!" -Sarah Dessen. As much as i love Daniel i had to stop and take a break in the middle of this video just cuz the story was making me so angry.
"I'll show them by doing exactly what they criticise me for"
As a published author, a very obscure author :), I can tell you the only right way to respond to constructive criticism or otherwise is respectfully. Just say thank you for your opinion and let it go. This is both a wise business practice as well as a gracious act.
Great advice, authors,directors, music artists etc carry a lot of responsibility because they're essentially crafting art that will last for generations and will affect countless people.
P.s good luck on your writings and hope you break big one day.
Thank you.
I just saw His dark materials because of your talks about it. I loved it! I haven't read the books and I can't wait to see what dust is and how the compass was but tysm for recommending it
Show seems pretty good can't wait to see E3
Can't believe that one of the Executive Producer of the show is one of the Guys who wrote "The Cursed Child" Jack Thorne.
I've noticed a pattern: authors who spend a lot of time interacting on social media tend to have toxic personalities. This is especially true of YA authors, and especially true of authors who use Twitter.
Her apology is about her trying to save face. She said what she honestly felt, first.
Alright I need a list of all the authors who gave sarah dessen shit for being a brat and I'm going to read their books immediately
And a list of all the authors who piled on the hate, so I can avoid them like the plague.
@@VoidLantadd imagine not reading or enjoying something based on what someone is like in real life.
@@RalphNC09 how is that a bad thing?
@@saibgassanov3378 bro I wouldn't care if Stephen king was a serial killer, I'd still read his works because they're good. That's why. You read to read.
@@RalphNC09 If you're going to be giving a person money and supporting them then I think it's a good idea to make sure they're not a piece of shit.
NK Jemisin went on a twitter tirade against this student, even AFTER Dessen's apology. She now released a non-apology essentially saying "I maybe didn't actually read the article, sorry if I may have contributed to any harassment against this student", and proceeded to continue arguing with any critical responses to the "apology". One of her most interesting "points" is: "if you read my books you would agree with me that this student's criticism is problematic & sexist" and "my readers would be against the harassment I'm receiving for my stance". It's all very... petty. Would love to hear your take, especially because she's a fantasy author you've posted reviews for!!
Yeah, her reaction really disappointed me deeply. It definitely colours my opinion of her and therefore, of her work...which I will be avoiding because of how she reacted.
What? N.K. Jemisin too. Goddamnit I was about to start Broken Earth.
* to the books*
Well I guess you go into the Donate Pile
This really disappoints me to hear NK Jemison reacted this way. I really loved her book: The Fifth Season. I'm not sure how the student's quote was deemed sexist, but people like to claim harassment for a lot of things these days (also, I am a woman, can confirm I didn't feel harassed by the student's quote).
@@Idontcare5225 American women, especially famous ones have a victim complex.
she's done this like 3 times lol
Given the person graduated in 2017, how hard did the Sarah Dessen have to look for the quote? Or was it dug up by a reporter and reprinted? Either way, the internet once again shows it's ability for keyboard warriors to bash whoever they like from the safety of their sofa. Congratulations to those authors who have encouraged and partaken in a massive online bullying incident. To quote Sarah Dessen, "I hope it made you feel good."
Twitter is probably the worst thing that has happened to social media. In the name of 'voicing their opinion' or 'having a debate' people just use it to show wretched and despicable they can be.
@@hamzaorakzai3490 Twitter is by design completely counter-intuitive to forwarding any discussion or debate. Restrictive character limits, and sectioned off conversations under hash tags and following groups which create bubbles for people to circle jerk each other. People really should get off Twitter it only makes them worse people.
Social media had such potential to be a positive force...alas, humanity, or at least the dregs of, messed it up for everyone else. Feel very sorry for that student. It looks like a bunch of authors who, like Daniel said, are insecure in their own genre, took an opportunity to vent their feelings of injustice or whatever you want to call it.
@@Jack-ts4nb great point
@@JStorme1000 yeah us humans are pretty good a that, it's amazing how we can fuck something up that could have been so beneficial and conducive to our development just for the sake of our ego
I don’t care what videos you make. I appreciate your research to properly inform your audience. I think this issue is so unfortunate, and people really need to stop blowing minimal information out of proportion.
Can’t do that, it’s why social media exists.
So ridiculous. Poor girl for having to deal with this. YA Twitter is so incredibly toxic that I don't even go on there anymore. It's already sad when randos with no knowledge attack someone for something they misunderstood but it's even more sad when actual published authors do the same. It only sets a terrible precedent for their young YA audiences. They need to do better.
I’m just happy you used “hissy fit” many times. The term is horribly underrated.
Ironically, she damaged her book and her image in a far more thorough manner than what she claimed the student did! Karma is a biatch!
I’m so disappointed in these authors for attacking someone without even doing their own research. Even if the quote wasn’t out of context it was made years ago. Also Nelson doesn’t have a big following so it’s not like it would cause damage to dessens sales. I’m not sure why they attacked even if it was true! I have gladly removed all books from these authors from my tbr 🙄
I'm just popping in here to wholeheartedly recommend one of the books mentioned in the video - "When Breath Becomes Air" by Paul Kalanithi. It's a non-fictional autobiography, actually. Written by a brilliant neurosurgeon, with a truly deep love and understanding of words, it tells the story of his own life and the battle he was at the point of writing fighting against the lung cancer he had been diagnosed with. Paul Kalanithi studied literature and biology at Stanford and studied philosophy at Cambrige University. He finished his degree at Yale School of Medicine. What made him walk these quite different paths during his studies was a deeply rooted need to understand the meaning of life - what it truly means to live. Having studied all these subjects before eventually finishing it off with a degree in medicine didn't only make him a brilliant neurosurgeon. His deep understanding of literature and philosophy also provided him with the ability to guide his patients and their families through the rough times when his scalpel was no longer able to save a life. I can't think of a more ideal person to put something like "When Breath Becomes Air" to paper. This quote from the book sheds some light on his early thoughts on the meaning of life, from before he even became a neurosurgeon:
"A few years later, I hadn’t thought much more about a career but had nearly completed degrees in English literature and human biology. I was driven less by achievement than by trying to understand, in earnest: What makes human life meaningful? I still felt literature provided the best account of the life of the mind, while neuroscience laid down the most elegant rules of the brain. Meaning, while a slippery concept, seemed inextricable from human relationships and moral values."
His philosophical take on the subject matter, combined with his scientific prowess and his brilliant use of words, really captivated me. I'm glad I didn't read this book in Swedish, my native language, because I would have hated to possibly have had some of Kalanithi's musings be muddied by (potentially) less than ideal translations. One of many things that made this read so interesting to me was the fact that he, who often had to deliver bad news and make use of his deep understanding of philosophy to guide patients and their loved ones through something awful, now found himself on the other end of that incredibly hard conversation. It's a beautifully written autobiography. It's also utterly heartbreaking. Paul Kalanithi passed away at age 37, not only forced off his path as a brilliant neurosurgeon who would have ended up saving countless lives, but also leaving behind a wife and a daughter. This short but powerful book was published 10 months after his passing and even contains an epilogue written by his widow, Lucy. I highly recommend giving this autobiography a chance, no matter what genres you as readers normally gravitate to. The book is only 256 pages long so either way it's not going to be a big time investment. You might end up going through it in one sitting, the way I did. In that short sitting Kalanithi managed to make me both laugh and cry.
(Optional read) Below are merely a few of my many favorite quotes from the book. Quotes that I saved as I was reading. As this is an autobiography, with an outcome you're already aware of the very moment you pick it up, they're not "spoilers". They're simply examples of the inner thoughts and often philosophical musings of the author. However, if you already feel like giving this book a shot you might as well skip these quotes and experience them with Kalanithi as he shares with the reader the intimate details of the journey towards his final breath. When his breath became air.
Quotes from "When Breath Becomes Air", pseudo-randomly selected:
"When there’s no place for the scalpel, words are the surgeon’s only tool."
"For amid that unique suffering invoked by severe brain damage, the suffering often felt more by families than by patients, it is not merely the physicians who do not see the full significance. The families who gather around their beloved - their beloved whose sheared heads contained battered brains - do not usually recognize the full significance, either. They see the past, the accumulation of memories, the freshly felt love, all represented by the body before them. I see the possible futures, the breathing machines connected through a surgical opening in the neck, the pasty liquid dripping in through a hole in the belly, the possible long, painful, and only partial recovery - or, sometimes more likely, no return at all of the person they remember. In these moments, I acted not, as I most often did, as death's enemy, but as its ambassador. I had to help those families understand that the person they knew - the full, vital independent human - now lived only in the past and that I needed their input to understand what sort of future he or she would want: an easy death or to be strung between bags of fluids going in, others coming out, to persist despite being unable to struggle.
Had I been more religious in my youth, I might have become a pastor, for it was the pastoral role I'd sought."
"The problem, however, eventually became evident: to make science the arbiter of metaphysics is to banish not only God from the world but also love, hate, meaning - to consider a world that is self-evidently not the world we live in. That’s not to say that if you believe in meaning, you must also believe in God. It is to say, though, that if you believe that science provides no basis for God, then you are almost obligated to conclude that science provides no basis for meaning and, therefore, life itself doesn’t have any. In other words, existential claims have no weight; all knowledge is scientific knowledge."
"Death, so familiar to me in my work, was now paying a personal visit. Here we were, finally face-to-face, and yet nothing about it seemed recognizable. Standing at the crossroads where I should have been able to see and follow the footprints of the countless patients I had treated over the years, I saw instead only a blank, a harsh, vacant, gleaming white desert, as if a sandstorm had erased all trace of familiarity."
"Because the brain mediates our experience of the world, any neurosurgical problem forces a patient and family, ideally with a doctor as a guide, to answer this question: What makes life meaningful enough to go on living?"
"If human relationality formed the bedrock of meaning, it seemed to us that rearing children added another dimension to that meaning. It had been something we'd always wanted, and we were both impelled by the instinct to do it still, to add another chair to our family's table.
Both of us yearning to be parents, we each thought of the other. Lucy hoped I had years left, but understanding my prognosis, she felt that the choice - whether to spend my remaining time as a father - should be mine.
'What are you most afraid or sad about?' she asked me one night as we were lying in bed.
'Leaving you,' I told her.
I knew a child would bring joy to the whole family, and I couldn't bear to picture Lucy husbandless and childless after I died, but I was adamant that the decision ultimately be hers: she would likely have to raise the child on her own, after all, and to care for both of us as my illness progressed.
'Will having a newborn distract from the time we have together?' she asked. 'Don't you think saying goodbye to your child will make your death more painful?'
'Wouldn't it be great if it did?' I said. Lucy and I both felt that life wasn't about avoiding suffering."
If you for some reason read all the way to the end of this post I'd say you owe it to yourself to give this autobiography a chance. Several people I've shared this with have loved it. A few of them didn't, however. If you do pick it up, let me know whether or not it was able to move you. :)
This is an old comment, but I just wanted to say that I really loved your passion about the book and you have definitely convinced me to read it. The quotes at the end were an excellent touch.
Thanks for this! I'll definitely read it!
thank you for this. i know this comment’s old, but i’m glad i found this gem in the comment section. that line from a quote you shared-“i was driven less by achievement than by trying to understand, in earnest: what makes human life meaningful?” struck a chord in me i can’t explain. thank you so much. i’m placing an order for a copy as i write this
What is funny is that all the YA authors who responded like that, are clearly insecure like you said Daniel. They obviously feel that the critsim their genra gets is at least partly warranted and it scares them.
Thank you for this! I was APPALLED at how she reacted to this, and the amount of backlash toward that poor woman (whose opinion I don’t even agree with) is absolutely repulsive.
Was the quote from the paper condescending? Yes. There is YA that could be wonderful works to analyze. No need to throw it in the comment about "fine for girls." The point could have been said better. Was the author's response and others terrible? 100%! Was it terrible that she cropped the article? Completely.
All books are great reading, but not all books fit such a prompt as required reading for an entire school population. Recommended reading sure. But as required reading, it'd be better to go with something that focuses on systemic real world issues like anti-black incarceration, etc.
This. I could absolutely see why someone would get upset at the quote. That being said - power dynamics + being an adult + time... Dessen totally went overboard.
@@thakatspajamaz yeah, this is exactly right. And when you have a fan-base that big, you have more responsibility to watch what you say for situations just like this one. Very irresponsible. Sad that it happened.
The Good Earth, the first YA book.
Criticism is a huge part of growing and improving in almost all aspects of life. Sometimes it is hard bitter pill to swallow but it's also the best medicine be an adult look at it abjectly and take it or leave it.
*objectively... I really don't think you mean "abjectly" here, which means "
utterly hopeless, miserable, humiliating, or wretched."
@@jchinckley you are right autocorrect sucks.
I'm kind of disappointed Angie Thomas rallied around Dessen's Tweet, I have to admit. Don't get me wrong I'm still looking forward to reading The Hate U Give, I have it on my massive TBR shelf, and I'll do my best to read the work for what it is, because from what I already understand, what it is, is a great story, and certainly a prescient one. (That may or may not change when i read it, but that's where my head is as of writing this.) While it is still a little disappointing, nevertheless, I'd like to give her that benefit of the doubt that the full context of the situation simply wasn't understood. We all make mistakes. I'VE made mistakes, we're only human, right?
As for Sarah Dessen: wasn't planning on reading her ever, definitely never gonna read her now.
I also saw in a video that Dessen should have also apologized to the authors she douped and i agree. She was the one who manipulated how it was viewed
Considering that Thomas’s books focus on racial inequalities, I think if she knew what Nelson was championing she wouldn’t have jumped on the bandwagon. Or would have at least apologized for her behavior.
I've found there is a certain segment of YA (writers) that is just toxic as hell. They get offended at the dumbest things, expect everyone to have the same worldview they have, and jump in headfirst without bothering to check the water depth. This is just yet another example of it. They often manage to get an apology from a person or a publisher or (as in this case) an educational institute when there is no reason for an apology to be given. It's absurd, and I think your video was spot on.
"The Coddling of the American Mind". A great read if you want to better understand where this behavior has come from. The authors do a deep dive into our 'call out culture'.
Personally, I think call out culture is good, I mean it's all about freedom of speech in the end. Ofcourse, there are times when it can get seriously out of hand, but I think the direction we are going, in terms of tolerance and calling assholes out is not only inevitable, but far better than what we have had before.
@@RightCorrections i would agree if were activist doing this in person, but what we have is a bunch of, often misinformed, cowards hiding behind keyboards. The anonimty begets a loss of decency.
@@RightCorrections I think call out culture, for the most part, isn't about "tolerance" at all - quite the opposite, in fact. In most of the cases I've seen it's about using manufactured outrage and whipping up an internet mob to browbeat people who don't share a particular point of view.
@@RightCorrections depends. On one hand you get the take down of Cosby and people being able to bring attention to issues the main stream media won't or can't. The other side is this and echo chambers. I left Reddit because I got tired of being called a liar when my reported life experiences didn't match other people's biases. Complicated issue.
@@nickd5158 Agreed. Call-out culture, like most things, can be good or bad depending on how it is used. After all, what is Daniel doing in this very video if not calling out a figure of authority for misbehavior? My hope - perhaps a pipe dream but yet a hope - is that things like this are merely the growing pains of the new world we find ourselves in, and that soon there will be a mellowing out.
Thank you for speaking up about this. We need to have honest reviews without the fear of backlash.
I'm an author, and also a big fan of Sarah Dessen's books and YA in general. And I COMPLETELY agree with you. This was absurd.
As a tiny little unknown indie author, if I behaved this way, I would pretty much be burying myself and destroying my career before it's even begun. The only reason this behavior was even remotely tolerated is because Sarah Dessen is so big. And that's ridiculous. It's precisely because she's a big name that she should be expected to have more class and understand her platform. Heck, even as a tiny youtuber and author, I understand that I can't go attack someone's opinion publicly and not expect that to lead to some harassment from people who watch my stuff. She should know better than that.
Isn't college reading lists about more than just enjoyment? I imagine (cant know for sure cause i study physics) that there are more consideration's taken than just "is this book good" to include it. I love Malazan for example but that doesn't mean it should be on a college reading list.
It's usually a book they make you read before the 2 weeks before classes where they group you into teams or mini classes to help you adjust make friends or for a gen Ed like a seminar course.
This was a really well done video that explains the context of the situation. Thanks for that.
Stuff like this happens so often on the internet; someone says something innocent that gets taken out of context, and people dogpile them and shame them in a way that is just not proportionate to even the least charitable interpretation of the initial comment. People get death threats online for comments they make that get taken out of context . . . Think about that.
I am tempted to join a dogpile right now, the dogpile on Sarah Dessen and the other authors who supported her in hating on the university student, but I'm not going to. As internet citizens, we need to exercise self control when it comes to the type of content that boils our blood. We need to actually care about context, and not feed into the outrage algorithm. We need to take a collective chill pill, take a deep breath, and be willing to engage with people in a civil way, especially if the topic of discussion is fraught with danger.
It is so easy and simple to post a mean tweet, or comment. It takes seconds to put that out there, but to the person on the receiving end of that vitriol, it can be life changing.
It’s particularly annoying because the marginalisation/ignorance/dismissal of YA (and fantasy and science fiction etc) books in academia is very frustrating and something that NEEDS to improve.
Yet this whole thing has been derailed by Dressen’s immature response and I imagine she’s just put the conversation about YA and genre fiction’s place as literature back a few steps.
I'm in a college class where half the short stories we read were sci-fi and fantasy. It's been awesome.
nick d The jealousy is real. We can pick a children literature module (which doesn’t include YA) and a science fiction module (which doesn’t include any works from the past twenty years) at my uni and I know that’s a lot better than other places.
@@halliehurst4847 the same professor has a YA class he teaches. They read Prisoner of Azkaban and I think The Magicians. Scheduling didn't work or I would have taken it too. He's pretty amazing. We've talked about how some of the best stuff in the past decade had been YA. Also thinks Buffy the Vampire Slayer is the most relevant show on the last 30 years. He's our people. Also why he's probably teaching at a branch and not at a major University.
@Nicole M I would agree... tho if you don't like Malazan you obviously have shit taste lol 😂. In all seriousness, I'd say this little scenario reveals why no one takes YA seriously. It is obviously a genre that attracts the most vapid, bootlicking kind of fans for them to dogpile one person in defense of their genre.
Nicole M
Removing the study of entire genres and age ranges from academic discussion is absolutely a huge issue within that field. One I feel very passionately about. If we’re not studying books that people read we’re missing out on a great deal of engagement with literature and trends.
Unfortunately the literary canon is still very narrow, arguments you made were ones I’ve heard one of my professors make offhandedly about books written by blackm. people a couple of years ago. ‘We won’t touch on this author for long because only the black students will write about him’. Yes really, if you can believe that.
But more relevant to this discussion is what is deemed worth study is just a little bit bonkers. Alice in Wonderland and Peter Pan are routinely studied as children’s classics but you’d have trouble finding a course with The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe; the Wizard of Earth Sea; Harry Potter. Ditto for Frankenstein and Dracula but not more recent equivalents. Why? Is it because they’re newer? Is writing getting worse with time and they’re not as good? If they’re not as well written, then why? Do they have less of a place as part of popular culture?
On the topic of YA, which you are incredibly dismissive of, the explosion of an entire new genre/age range in pretty much a ten year period is fascinating. It’s an incredible opportunity for study. What does writing aimed at teenagers look like? What trends have developed in a short space of time? Is it a literary movement? How does it compare to teen writing of the past?
This is a TH-cam comment so there’s not much point in getting into the wider arguments of gatekeeping, erasure and elitism at play but they’re worth noting.
You don’t have to care about this, no one says you have to. But your comment was misinformed, so if you really don’t care that’s cool. This isn’t an issue you need to care about. But if it’s something you’re going to discuss in future it’s worth researching what you’re talking about before coming across as naive and immature.
Apologises for any typos, written on my phone.
The YA community online is beyond toxic. I don't understand it.
The letters alone should clue you in. The human brain doesn't fully mature until sometime around 25 years. By that age no one considers you YA anymore, just adult, despite being comparatively young.
It's because it's all teenage girls. That's just how they behave with each other irl. Social media just magnifies it
@@TomorrowWeLive YA isn't all teenage girls. Boys do know how to read and many, many adults read YA fiction, including myself. I'm a 58-year-old man. I've read the Twilight Saga (initially in order to figure out why it was so popular at the time) 4-5 times. The fiction I enjoy most is usually YA fantasy. I want to read A Song of Ice and Fire, but its graphic nature might be hard for me to adjust to. I read half (and intend to read the whole series at some point) of the Harry Potter books, but Order of the Phoenix was off-putting to the extent that I just stopped reading because Harry's anger in that book was out of proportion to the character presented up to that point. It kicked me right out of the suspension of disbelief.
It's not social media that magnifies "toxicity." It's the anonymity of the internet. People aren't face to face on the internet and so their biases set them up for "toxic" behavior. I hate that we use the word this way. There must be a better one we can use.
@@TomorrowWeLive I'm a teenage girl and take slight offense at the implication we all act like that. No, we don't. The fact simply is that the cooler heads aren't as vocal, so the amount of people who are "toxic" seems higher than it is. What I will say is that social media and the internet absolutely makes people, regardless of demographic, far more brazen in expressing "toxic" sentiments.
@@jchinckley big yikes
It's no wonder these YA authors write such relatable stories for their target audience. They *are* their target audience.
Twitter is a dumpster fire, I just stay away.
I literally only use it to find food trucks.
I hate this bullying into making people apologize for things that are simply difference of opinion, doing their job, or quotes taken out of context. I'm so, so sick of it. And it's typically from people who act like what they are doing is so "righteous", but in fact they are just bullies and hypocrites pushing their opinions on other people.
Was it out of context though? I know nothing about the author, have never read any of her books. I was ready to get to know how was it taken out of context but in my mind it really wasn't. The fact they wanted a more serious book to be chosen doesn't mean they didn't describe her book in that way. Taking things out of context doesn't mean that the author of the quote had good intentions overall. To me out of context means for example: quoting jokes without the punchline or taking writers hypthetical arguments as their own (like when atheist describe theists arguments for existence of a god).
Love the fact you say what needs to be said Daniel - refreshing in this day and age!
Is that Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell I see on the shelf. Good book ;)
So good
Wow. Very childish.
That ending had me laughing lol
"Grow up"
7:37 lol I'm Irish and I think the correct way to say that is more like shiv-awn
Oh thank god someone said it, the effort to not comment almost broke me
I don’t blame him but I def flinched 😂
Did Daniel really just pronounce the name Soibhan as Soap-han?? I am distraught.
To be fair; it's not exactly obvious how you're supposed to pronounce it... I only know because I watched Orphan Black, and there's a character called Siobhan in it. Just based on how it's spelled, I wouldn't have a clue.
@@Mhidraum I'm Irish I grew up with these names never knew they where difficult for people till I stared spending more time online
As an American, I understand, because Irish names often are pronounced in ways totally foreign to American English.
That being said, that pronunciation did make a little piece of my soul shrivel up and die.
@@HazelGEvans-eb1ig As a norwegian; listening to americans attempt to pronounce foreign names and words is kind of hilarious.
That's how I learned the name too! And she was a badass
It baffles me how a college student is smarter than a bunch of millionaire authors.
They really should be ashamed for this.
Just so great to hear intelligent eloquent argument readdressing the balance. Thank you
5:43 it's a bit more worrying than a lack of understanding of technology; it seems to be a lack of understanding of people.
Which, unless I'm mistaken, is pretty much the foundation of good fiction writing. As long as you're writing about people, anyway.
my biggest fear tbh is how Universities, which should be the epitome of free speech and ideological debate, are quickly becoming this sort of ideological bloc where you can't say a single word that doesn't align with a certain ideology because it results in proffessors being fired, alums being shamed and the university as a whole having to apologize to X or Y group.
For an opinion...
@@thearcanehunter2736 This isn't about politics at all. This is about authors who rush to conclusions based on partial information, leading to the public shaming and harassment of a student, and the university apologizing on her behalf to salvage their reputation. Please don't make it about politics if it's not.
@@ianrose6218 But it is about politics, culture, and more. OP's comment was wholly on-topic and valid.
Not all YA is bad there are some really good series like Percy Jackson, Harry Potter, Rangers Apprentice, the Last Apprentice, The Inheritance Cycle, and many others. There are some pretty ass ones that are just bad romance and love triangles.
Rangers apprentice was fire
Cathildis true they still were fire. And the reckoners were also insanely good imo
My wife is currently rereading Harry Potter, now that she's older and more discerning. She's very disappointed in it, says it's too full of plot conveniences, holes, and character actions that don't make sense.
There is a central flaw that these stories share. They strive for the protagonist to be both "heroic" and a "teenager" (or a relatable allegory of one). In order to achieve both, all adults in the story are written as dumb, cruel, incompetent, or absentee.
It's very hard to take these books seriously after that sinks in.
I'm glad to say that I've seen at least some great fantasy YA that includes healthy relationships. So, so much better than the constant love triangles / inevitable fall for an abusive jerk. I recently enjoyed "The Girl of Fire and Thorns" and "Mask of Shadows"
Mandy H I don’t think love triangles are unhealthy but the my are so boring to read about
What a shame. It just makes me never want to pick up one of their books.
i kinda liked the bad focus. allowed me to read some of ur bookshelfs titles
Yo!!! Hard to believe ive been following your channel for 3 years. Shortly after I found your channel i can distinctly remember this vid poping up in my sub box and my reaction while I was at work. Man how time flies.
Aren’t we forgetting about how the author of never night called a black book tubers review worthless noise and implied that she had no tease….
This makes my blood boil. What a dispicable thing of Sarah Dessen to do.
Man this makes me happy to be a Jim Butcher fan, dude may be a smart ass but he's nowhere near this petty, Dessen is nearing Larry Corriea levels of obnoxious
I think the publishing industry as a whole would greatly improve if authors just got off Twitter.
Well now, I ain't ever touching a Dessen!
I read her books and they are terrible.
This whole thing just shows how inefficient online communication can be.
A gross abuse of Power and Fame
So 10 minutes after I read an article on this, you upload a video. Guess that means I should pay more attention to you.
I just love how Nelson responded to the issue
Massive respect for her!
I wish that Sarah Dessen and the other writers that participated in this witch hunt get more criticism on these platforms. They didn't even apologize. They all disappeared offline for a few days and most of them returned only to never mention what happened.
The apology was just to save her image. This could have been avoided if she didn't take this criticism so serious. Also shame on the University and journalist for apologizing for the article/comments. I feel bad for the graduate student.
This is one of the times I won’t separate the art from the artist. I loved her books as a teen. I won’t pick up her books again. Especially since I review books. It’s sad she fostered this kind of toxic environment.
"You gaddam right!" Lol dude that's why we love ya boy.
_To be fair_ YA novels have... An adquired taste to it. Most of it it's romance focused, have many plot wholes, and take great lengths to basically... _Suck_ . And I mean it. The mortal instruments, the house of night, After series, twilight to name few, have really, REALLY give the genre a bad baggage.
Siobhan is Irish so the bh is pronounced a ‘v’ and the ‘si’ is a ‘Sh’ sound, don’t worry I read a whole book pronouncing it wrong
so is it like Shivan or like Shiovan?
Lena H sort of like ‘sh-Vaughn’
I love just how reasonable you are as a person, you dont take shit but you are so mature in how you handle things and give your opinions, big respect.
This is my first time learning of this and hearing this makes me feel sick that people behave in a way author/fan alike would bully and beat someone down impeding them from something they are moved to act in-depth about. She should have felt honored he used a quote from one of her works that could help another express themselves. I'm glad she apologized but it doesn't changed what happened. 🤮 She made the stage for others to stand on demeaning one person and that's not okay. Be a Jenga piece to help someone stand tall not the wind that knocks it down.
God I’m so sorry for what that girl went through. And this author needs a serious lesson in maturity and etiquette. A few years ago I ranted about a book Ania Ahlborn wrote on my Instagram, and the author saw the comment and she was the most mature and beautiful person about it saying, and I quote, “I’m so sorry you were disappointed. I hope you’ll give me another chance in the future. ❤️” I was completely blown away and I started respecting her 1000x more and appreciating her work. THAT’s how you handle criticism as an author like a true goddess. Take a lesson from her Dessen
I read one of Sarah Dessen's books before I heard about this. and it was average at BEST.
She is very average. Strange that she got furious about a new writer. Jealousy?
Ten months later I still think about this sometimes and get angry about it lol
Side note: Just Mercy is great and Bryan Stevenson is a really good author, speaker, and justice advocate.
The internet: a place where we abandon civility. Where, without research or good understanding, we equate the tiniest little thing that mildly upsets us to some form of terrorism. Where one tiny, ill-considered post can have devastating(or life-ruining) consequences for someone. We were taught as kids to be kind and treat people as we want to be treated, but for some reason that doesn’t apply online. Extend your empathy to people online. Thanks for making this video.
The Hate U Give now off my TBR & Just Mercy is on it. These authors who piled on this hate are just bullies.
I know this isn't the point but that reading of Siobhan got me xD I know it's hard to read if you don't already know how to say it or aren't Irish but it's still kinda funny. Aside from that, great video on this.
Btw: said like Shevaun, Siobhan is the gaelic spelling.
I actually understand what she meant when she said writing is how she survives in the world. Writing is my only real outlet to deal with my dysphoria and without it I would be a mess.
Yeah, but she is a published author. She should know that people will have criticism towards her book, and that parts of it will be harsher than others.
I love this video. It's honest which is more than I can say for a lot of other critics. This kind of honesty is the main reason why I love watching Daniel's videos. The world (in general) has gone immature!
It's very interesting to see how the lessons and messages an author tells in a story, can be so totally lost when it's warped into a 'fandom.' I mean, what kinds of stories does Dessen wish to write, if at the end of the day, her readers are so blinded by fanboy/girling and just behave like pieces of shit. No doubt this issue was overreacted through the internet persona, as i doubt those 3 idiot Tweeters would've ever said that to the OP face-to-face.
I do think YA is actual genera, books like Hunger Games and Mistborn: The Final Empire has shown that just because it is YA does not mean it can't be taken seriously. Now, the problem lies in how overwhelmed the genera is from all these "romance" (abuse/Stockholm/other uncomfortable topics posing as romantic) books geared toward teenage girls. I know growing up, my English teachers only had these books because those classes had mainly teenage girls in them, and I wasn't one. But, I had no interest so I stayed with manga - and these were the dark days before manga was cool!
Can you imagine authors such as Dickens, Thackeray, George Eliot etc reacting to criticism in such an abhorrent manner? It seems to me that this is part and parcel of the 'preciousness' surrounding so many 'celebrities' these days. Sadly, social media makes it far too easy for people such as Sarah Dessen (whom I'd never heard of before I saw this video) to gang up on anyone who dares to criticise them. These people should grow some ba**s and accept that if they put themselves in the public eye, then they must accept that not everyone is going to like their work.
This video made me subscribe. Thank you for standing up for the little people.
I met Sarah Dessen when I was a manager at a Barnes and Noble. She's rude and condescending. Mean Girls grow up and become YA authors, I guess.
I think there is different types of criticism. The one that creates change, the one that creates improvement, the one that expands thinking, the one that puts someone down, the one that manipulate and the one that demotivate and critics that ridicule or entertain. Etc
I think that a lot of critiques aim to entertain, and do not reflect that they are not helping art grow. These critics I dislike just as much as creators who cannot take feedback.
Daniel's critique is ALWAYS presented in a way that improves art. So respect. Truly.
Eh I think our culture hasn't caught up to how the internet, amygdala neuroscience, and politeness interact. From the little now I know about this issue, sounds like people got pissed off and not sure getting super pissed off in response will add anything effective to the conversation. Getting control over how immediately pissed off we get and present ourselves as in response to we read/hear online (usually no real world specific problem with tangible solutions) seems like the culprit of this debacle
This is a PERFECT example of how the invention of retweet was the biggest mistake in social media HISTORY
I remember about 7 to 8 years ago, Anne Rice posted a link to a young college student's Tumblr account where the student was making paper mache for one of her projects from the pages of one of Price's books. (Don't remember the name of the book, but it was one of her lesser known novels and it wasn't well received.) Price makes a shady comment about it and her fans viciously harass the girl. (The post has been deleted since, I caught it the very day Price posted it) Was the first thing I thought of after watching this video. And I'm surprised that even almost a decade ago, Price didn't get the backlash that she deserved from doing that. Price even argued with a random reviewer for his opinion of one of her books on AMAZON a couple years before. Besides giving her credit for Interview of the Vampire, I have zero respect for Anne Price and group her with authors like Dessen.
Yeah, Anne Rice is kind of famously a jerk
I'm glad to see things like this brought up. It doesn't really sound like her writing would be something I would read from a personal taste but it is certainly abhorrent behavior and would make me question reading her work. She certainly missed the point and took things in a direction that was unnecessary. The apology took quite some time but I would hope it is genuine. I know I might actually enjoy seeing a review on some of her work if it fit in on the channel so it's a shame to hear potential for this kind of backlash would keep you from doing so.