The key to big returns is not big moving stocks. It's managing risk in relationship to reward. Having the correct size on and turning your edge as many times as necessary to reach your goal. That holds true from long term investing to day trading
@@theresagarcia1218 Yes I am in touch with a Financial Adviser and for the past 6months, I've been able to stay afloat the market crashes and I've watched my portfolio grow by over 40% these past few months.
Lots wrong with this comparison. It’s actually garbage. What about property taxes? Unexpected expenses and repairs, interest payments? If you have the upfront cash, then stock market is better. If you don’t, then real estate is probably better but that still depends… Either way, most rich educated people invest in the market and use real estate to diversify their portfolio. It’s the most logical move
I totally agree, Properry management fee is already 10% of gross revenuen plus interest, mortgage (i find this as non spendable due it goes to equity instead), property tax, insurance, maintenance and repairs, and don't forget when the tenant leaves, you have a loss of income which means you have to pay out of your pocket for instead of from the revenue. There are times it could take months to fund a new tenant. worst case if the tenant don't pay and it takes time to evict them.
So much knowledge! Absolutely free! I was never taught anything about money, I am praying and working to change that. I am 46 no retirement no savings because I made a lot of mistakes when I started investing, trying to correct that now. Already have a few thousand$ saved up to invest for long term. I would like to know what advice you could give to start my investing journey. Listening to you gives me inspiration and wisdom. Thank you so much!
Just buy low sell high. Stick with a good company by either not selling when it's going lower and/or buying more at that time. Almost always the good well managed companies will come back strong at some point. The other is to get yourself a financial-advisor that can provide you with entry and exit points on the shares/ETF you focus on.
Thanks a lot for sharing man, I just looked 'John Desmond Heppolette' up on the web and I would say he really has an impressive background in investing. I will write a text a shortly.
excellent share, no BS. just copied and pasted his full name on my browser out of curiosity, thankfully his site came up after scrolling a bit, he seems first-rate.
You wouldn’t just invest $50k and call it quits for 30 years. If you’re reinvesting in real estate by borrowing from the equity then naturally you’d add to your stocks as well. In that event, stocks will destroy real estate over 30 years. I was doing both but have concluded that stocks are the far better long term outcome and am just keeping one house for a roof over my head and throwing everything else into stocks
Exactly. Let's use the simple example of taking the $843 per month for the mortgage (like in the video), but invest it each month in the S&P 500. $50k + $843 each month at 10% per year gives ~$2.6M after 30 years. But you have to calculate that if you don't live in a house, you have to live somewhere! It costs money. BUT! When we have a mortgage, we pay interest! So there too we lose money. This video is not complete.
Not covered is the major headaches involved being a landlord. Continual upkeep, wear and tear, dirty tenants, non-paying tenants, difficult eviction procedures, and on and on. I’m sure they make great investments but comes at the price of your time and sanity. No thanks, stocks please!
I wish I could have retired in my 50's. I'm 65 now, I started investing late . After some research, I found a strategy that helped. I'm pleased to say I'm retiring with at least $2 million.
It’s worth noting that luck often plays the significant role in some cases, sometimes even more than the resources involved. Without it, its challenging
@@RonnieWine luck plays a part, especially in the short term. I noticed that when results remain consistent, it indicates something more than just luck. research was the challenge until It led to Julie Ann Lerch, a fund manager. her strategy made sense, it contributed to growing 950k into this and counting
Dude if you are actually managing to increase the value of the property i.e. maintenance, remodeling. refinance to cashout and invest on another property then it’s not passive income. You are working!! If you actively manage and regularly trade honing your skills and knowledge of the market for 30 years and something you completely left out the snowballing effect of dividends reinvested. Stocks would easily beat investing on properties.
I think investors should always put their cash to work, especially In 2024, we'll start to see more market diversification. I'm hoping to invest about $350k of my savings in stocks against next year. Hope to make millions in 2024
Since risk is at an all-time high right now, perhaps you should be a little more patient and return when it has decreased. Alternatively, you can consult a trained financial expert for strategy.
If you borrowed the money for 250k of stocks instead of 50k it would be a fair comparison. Round 6, the amount it is worth after 30 years would then be about 41/2 million for stocks delivering you an asset of about 5 times properties'. Passive income would then be 250 a month and growing at 10% as opposed to 3%. Maintenance, repairs and council rates would leave you with next to no passive income from the property each month. Conclusion, this comparison is deeply flawed.
If u borrowed 250k for shares , shares would be miles ahead at 10% rate of return. One would have over 6million in 30 years. Something a property can’t achieve.
@@Peter-zv4dxThe difference is you’ll be borrowing an unsecured loan on a more risky investment. If the market is stagnant or there is a crash it’s a recipe for disaster when you factor in the interest.
The problem with real estate is that your return which is lower than stocks and around 4%-5% will be affected when you can't find someone to rent it and lose money due to mortgage payments or property tax. Being called from time to time by the renter to fix things, after one renter leaves you need to refresh the apartment, you need to renovate it every X amount of years if you want to keep it attractive and rent at your desired price and not to mention, some renters stop paying, don't leave and cause damages so get a lawyer ready. Yes, the value shouldl raise with the years but its basically updating according to the real estate market so your purchase power stays more or less, the same, at least in that area. It was just important to state that from my experience
I'll choose stocks everyday. I foresaw this current housing crisis and sold my property. I then put it in the market. That was late February. I've lost more than 40% of my portfolio's value. It makes me really sad. How can I turn this situation around?
This is really sad. If you're not who understands strategies to invest in the market, why not seek a financial advisor to help you grow your portfolio?
I agree. Having an investment advisor is the best way to go about the stock market right now. I’ve been in touch with a coach for a while now mostly and I made over 95% profit within about seven months or so.
It’s hard to measure the impact on a career that owning property could have. The time commitment, energy, and stress required for buying and managing property could negatively affect some people’s career whereas others may be unaffected in that regard. I personally would rather put as much into my career as possible without other distractions and spend my other time decompressing and enjoying life while passively investing in a way that is mathematically almost certain to provide financial independence.
@@hiyoutube9204 property managers wil only help you to get tenants handle the communications but the decision making, when something is broken they will ask for you before getting quotes or will ask you to get your own tradie if they dont have one. It all depends on the property too. If its an old property the wear and tear is too much that as if you dont have a property manager
@@hiyoutube9204 that charge you 10% as management fees, and call their mates to do repairs on your property, rather than you, yourself finding tradesmen at cheaper rates, and materials
That calculation only works if $ 250,000 house/condo goes to $ 1,000,000 after 30 years. That’s not always the case. My friend bough a condo 21 years ago for $ 280,000 in suburb of Chicago. Today 21 years later the price is $ 300,000 Investing in the 500 most powerful and successful companies in the world is 1000 times better. If you buy 500 houses most likely the price will go up 5 % a year. If you buy 1 house/ condo there is no guaranties. It is a comparison to buying a single stock. The price may go up, down or no change.
But then there are also examples of houses going up 10% per year in certain places or countries...and depending on the time frame,,, stocks have only returned 5%...so it's tricky... I guess this just gives a high level overview for each 👍
I've been a property investor. However, if someone was starting out today: I would say go with stocks to start and only get a property when you have about 1/2 the purchase price in your stock fund. At that point you can use a margin loan for the down payment and only be borrowing against 40% the value of the stock, you are unlikely to have to deal with a margin call--and even if you do you can take out a second on the house to cover it. The combination of the house+stock is a much more powerful combination than either on their own.
@@NathanHQ The thing is: stocks and real estate are often counter cyclical. When one is up, the other is down. If you own both, you run much less chance of big overall fluctuation in your net worth. Some folks get nervous because trading stocks ouside an IRA/401K, you are potentially subject to capital gain tax. The thing is: sooner or later many small business people will have a lean year in which you need money. That is a fine time to cash in an index fund, which is of course liquid. I made a big mistake getting overly extended into property early on and NOT investing in stocks when i had a chance. Stuff like Robinhood make this much easier now.
@@randallburns5704 "NOT investing in stocks when i had a chance" Don't blame you. ETFs weren't popular then until last 10 yrs ago, investment properties were the only option, stock picking will win only for those very wise/knowledgeable or very lucky, only 4% companies out of the tens of thousands responsible for generating most of the wealth on the sharemarket.
@@holycow3355 there were discount S and P 500 funds even 30 years ago--but not the diversity of funds that are around now. The thing is: I hadn't even started reading up on this area back then.
You can get collateralised loans against stock assets without having to sell, allowing ownership to continue and appreciate further until eventually equity appreciation dwarfs the loan...that's like remortgage of stocks no?
UNFORTUATLY , there are some cruel points missing such as : - regarding "Capital Gains" we can achieve much higher gains with stocks using margin. - "Influence": sound good for properties only on paper, because we are paying interest rates every month , but there is no GUARANTEE that the property will generate rental income every month. therefore there are lots of points missing in favor of stocks.
Informative. I’d also like to include selling options (Covered Calls & Cash Secured Puts). Roughly with a $50k account in the stock market, you could bring in an additional $750 - $2k/month. But of course, the caveat is that you must own 100 shares as collateral (or cash equivalent to 100 shares).
Wrong. You can borrow against blue chip stocks. Also factor how much interest you are paying to the bank in 30 years for property. Finally factor tenants destroying your rental property. I will need to disagree.
For the passive income part, you did not take into account property taxes, insurances, vacancy, repairs. With all of those extra expenses, it could be an additional $400-1,000 per month depending on location. Stocks have the advantage here
The cost of upkeep and things breaking over a 30 years period must be considered.property taxes and refinance fees plus closing costs also...stocks all you to just buy and forget it and free up the most valuable thing you have which is time.
Round 4 was wrong because there is no passive income in real estate. You have to stay active and be available. Even if you have a property manager you still have to manage the property manager!
Hi - I see your point and it is kind of true..there is no real passive income... but in the eye of the law..that type of income is passive income and it is taxed at a different rate to earned income 👍
Ive just recorded a video on this same topic and came to the same conclusion as you. Ive delved deeper into calculating the yearly profit (as well as capital gains) from a property investment to address some of these comments re the interest expense. Video will be published this saturday 😊
There are expenses related to property which directly don’t benefit an increased value such as base maintenance costs. What if the water heater blows, etc? That results in additional time, money and effort which is important to have a part of the calculation. Maybe you have your own house and need to maintain two? Then you need to start having employees and the ecosystem grows. Just saying. Like you said yourself it’s hard to compare, it’s like apples vs pears.
Yes fair points..., there is so much more that goes into property for sure... but the end result was like $2 Million right? so a few thousands in costs wouldn't really effect the end result too much 👍
The water heater goes out like once in 10 years it’s like a couple 100s 😂. What happens when the market crashes and your stocks crash so you can’t withdraw as much?
House property value also depreciate after 25 years.. Same time some stocks gives thousands time returns. I believe Stocks wins. (But Keep in mind the rent of the house is major factor what can be earned in 25 years).
One thing I would like to have seen in here is the diversification benefit. I personally own a property that I live in, I have previously owned a rental, and I/my wife (if the taxman is asking) have shares. One of the benefits of shares is it is quite easy to diversify yourself. Property ties up a lot of capital, and there can be factors outside of your control that totally change your outlook (change in supply/demand), or things like accidental or malicious damage (which I found a constant issue), and also the balancing around laws and the rights of the tenant. The fact that property takes up a lot more capital and cash flow means I see it as a higher potential reward & higher chance of financial constraint as well.
Yes all great points but impossible to include everything for both investment... this was just to give an overview of the returns with a typical example. Nice points though 👍
The Feeling you Get Owning A House is much better than the Numbers game because you need more Stock Earnings to Buy A House what can get more expensive than you even make with stocks.
Buy stocks, buy property if you can get a hella deal and flip, forget tenants, did it for 25 years. Made a lot selling my property but if I really sit down and think about, it wasn’t worth it.
At least if something bad happens to the property, the insurance will cover the damage. However, if a company goes bankrupt, there's no insurance to cover the loss in stock 😅
> propery is a buisness, renters are clients Yes, BUT you can't guarantee your clients to be paying for 25 years for two businesses (two houses), there will always be months or years without people renting your property, AND in that case, that's a very bad situation, the rent should be going to the mortgage, but you don't have it. how would you pay it? your own money! I wished you clarify more on this, but great video overall!
You forgot insurance and property tax . In California that would be about $250 for taxes and insurance about$250 for an extra $500 on top of $843.. for a total Of$1,343.
Liqudity has disadvantage too. You can easily sell a stock before bullish times and loose potential profit. Property is better for amateurs, they can't jump in and out so quickly so the property has chance to rich higher price in years.
Also, not calculated in is the time spent on the properties versus the extra time you would have to earn extra money and reinvest into the stock market
Also in this was a basic index. You can own stocks and take dividends and reinvest them to buy more of that same stock, speeding up the process of compound interest. Now here’s a kicker, you could refinance and take that capital and put it into a stock, say like Apple that on average in the last 10 years had a rate of return of 28%. At just half of that is 14%, more than 10%. There are so many different avenues! Your best bet is to do both!😊
I own both and I don't agree with your comparison. With property, you have to pay property tax, school tax (In Canada) then the endless repair and maintenance. As for passive income from rent, its not that rosy. There are instances where tenants don't pay rent for months, court case, stress ........etc. Its not easy.
My own view if you can pay off property then you can decide when the time is right to sell takes off some pressure off. Plus also keep pumping money into isas and pension your in a good position for an average person.
If you get a property manager that alleviates alot of those concerns. Also i saw a lot of people talk about the damage a renter can do. Well thats a tax right off. Cash flow is the smallest part of owning property.
This assumes that the market continues growing at an average of 10% per year, which may not happen. We’ve been in a recovering market, and we aren’t so much anymore, which has drawn up the average return. It’s good to diversify. Invest in BOTH stocks and real estate to truly grow your empire!
Are we going to ignore the fact that you have to pay almost double of the loan total to the bank after that 30 years because of interest? Also, stocks are also compounding at double the rate and what about if we reinvest the dividend back into stocks? You will only start getting paid by the house if you physically move out into another house, and rent the original house out but this is AFTER 30 YEARS! The house is a liability up until you get renters in it
@Blake no. Shares has a better return especially when you have big dollars from gains on property. If u put $250k in shares and bought a property outright for $250k shares will win in the end. Its the leverage that makes property better.
Flawed analysis. You have the equalized the leverage into the S&P 500. Additionally mortgage includes taxes and insurance. For homes you have to estimate the operating expenses such as utilities and maintenance which you mentioned. In addition you didnt include closing costs. For stocks you can continually increase your stock investment. However safe to say both are way better than cash. We agree 👍
OPPORTUNITY COST! THAT is the single variable making stocks better L/T. Real estate is perhaps for those with more discretionary time and enjoying reals estate issues. OPPORTUNITY COST is highly underrated!
Let's use the simple example of taking the $843 per month for the mortgage (like in the video), but invest it each month in the S&P 500. $50k + $843 each month at 10% per year gives ~$2.6M after 30 years. But you have to calculate that if you don't live in a house, you have to live somewhere! It costs money. BUT! When we have a mortgage, we pay interest! So there too we lose money. This video doesn't show everything you need to know.
Some valid comparisons on the intangibles like involvement and control. but for the financial comparison, lots more need to be covered. Need to mention more detail behind the math. Refi are not free, house renovation is not free, maintenance is not free, so all that cash flows are missing on both cases. $2,173 rental on a property worth $1,080,485, that is a bargain.
Interesting comparison! Having grown up around the Real Estate industry, it is definitely a business. My dad thinks I'm insane for investing in stocks (outside of his 401K, he's 100% in Real Estate), but it's my down payment money for the next property (already own a house). Why lose value due to inflation when you can invest it in great companies that will easily outpace a measly savings account?
Wait something is missing here. You can borrow against your stocks as well and leverage that to buy more stocks. Something feels like it's missing here.
2) 3% home loan is a thing of the past. Its probably double that now. Also, When a tenant moves out you are paying full mortgage until a new tenant moves in. This will cancel out months of that "passive income"
I own both you have good points but regarding the real estate you forgot to deduct the cost of having renters, the cost of maintaining the home the increase in insurance, and property tax, and if you have an HOA homes don't always increase in price...I can go on and on rentals are good but stocks are passive long term
Real life is different than paper… They say you’re supposed to count on 1/2 of whatever profits (because of maintenance) you expect from a rental property and I’ve found that to be true. You also would have to put in $100k in the house around about the 15 year mark to keep it up to standards of the comps then maybe even doing that again around year 30 especially if you need it appraised for refinancing. Also for every period of uncertainty in stock market during a recession it’s usually preceded with real estate down trends. Then add on I’ve never gone 10 years let alone 30 without some sort of major repairs not just updates. It all adds up and just not a concern with stocks. Also did you adjust your profits from the refinanced home? In order to pull out $65k in 5yrs they likely extended you back out to 30 and increased your mortgage payment unless there was a substantial decrease in rates your payment would be higher.
In what world would the proper analogy be a single family home to an index fund? An index fund is a collection of fractional shares and a single family home is one larger investment (similar to a standard stock). I would have liked to see this video compare a single family home to an average performing stock. The equivalent of an index fund would be a portfolio of single family homes across a wide span of neighborhoods.
people should wake up and invest in themselves instead of taking their money and investing it into somebody else’s company like the stock market. invest in yourself you can control the outcome
What if you took a $65000 margin loan and bought more stocks? Of course leveraging more will get you more returns. If nothing bad happens to wipe you out.
I think you need to look at your numbers again as they are way off in round 4. You say rent return on property trumps stocks per month, but you only took into account a mortgage repayment on the property, leaving a high monthly net return. I have an investment property and pay: council rates, land tax, property manger fees, property insurance, maintenance, tax, etc ect every month, and these do add up. Once you deduct these costs from the net return off the rent, the figure you quote is in reality far less each month. Not knocking your video, but you seem to over-simplify the true property investment costs. I must say you do have a nice video production quality 👍🏻
Hi thanks for the video. If i may, the assumptions are not accurate and you are not comparing apples to apples. You should compare all what you pay for the house (250k+mortgage interests+maintenance fees) to the same amount in stocks, not just to 50k. And in this case, stocks win with a huge edge
A lot of leeches in property : spruikers, council, land tax, property manager, ripoff tradesmen, not to mention shit tenants, one sided govt regulations, the list go on & on !!!!
Not a fair comparison, I think. You neglected to consider the costs involved with your mortgages and refinancing costs... as it stands, your calculation assumes you paid off both mortgages for free, and the refinancing cost is $0. No interest paid, and no principal paid... free home equity!
Hi - well the interest is being paid by the tenants. And yes, all the small costs were left out to keep it simple and give a high level overview for each. It's virtually impossible to do a like-for-like comparison.
Since the beginning of the year, I have purchased a few equities, but nothing significant. Why am I being so unkind to this? The fact that others in my field make six figures each piece, nevertheless, motivates me to want to be the first member of my polygamous family to earn a million dollars. I am fully aware of the expense of working more to get more money.
Even though there will probably be more pain in the future, without a doubt, the Fed is to blame for the exceptional catch-up measures currently in place since they were initially too slow to control inflation. Many people do, in fact, downplay the value of financial professionals until they are experiencing emotional turmoil. I definitely remember needing encouragement to continue running my business.
You're not doing anything wrong; you simply lack the expertise necessary to make money in a bear market. Only highly knowledgeable professionals who had to witness the 2008 financial crisis could expect to make a sizable income in these turbulent times.
@@oscarjiron6974 I need advice on how to rebuild my portfolio and come up with new strategies because of the significant drops. Whereabouts of this advisor's city?
@@AnthonyHart34 It's funny you brought it up because I totally get it. Although I have dealt with several financial advisers, "sharon lee casey" has so far shown to be the most knowledgeable and capable. I'm not sure whether I can disclose this. She also manages my portfolio.
@@oscarjiron6974 I can see why she is so busy because she has a respectable career and strong credentials. So without waiting, I quickly copied Sharon's full name and entered it into my browser.
Look for Turkey. We had the opportunity to invest there. I feel so lucky my father did it. Edit: I am not talking about stock market since it is risky but the property invesment in Turkey is nowhere near the any other country you could imagine. For example; Yalıkavak Akyaka Bodrum and more
How can you give the advantage to homes for being worth $200k more when you went $200k into debt to buy? At best it is a tie with same profit and even that is generous because the house investment is 5x greater
"Minimal learning" for stocks. 😂 Takes awhile to get comfortable with stocks, in my opinion. So much information out there. Initially hard to parse through.
You had me worried at one stage in this Video Nathan, but as initially expected and thankfully property takes the winning position. Great video, not easy to do, well done.
@@NathanHQ your not wrong, I`ve got some door hinges, a fridge and a roof to sort next week. I`d rather be sat in the sun with a beer but that's the price you pay with the higher return investment I guess.
👉🏼 Get your comment or question read & replied to with Super Thanks 👆🏻
The key to big returns is not big moving stocks. It's managing risk in relationship to reward. Having the correct size on and turning your edge as many times as necessary to reach your goal. That holds true from long term investing to day trading
May I ask which stocks are good? I've been looking at a few different ones but want others opinions as well.
@@theresagarcia1218
@@mayacho4910 Are you in touch with a Financial-Adviser ? is your experience much better than investing on your own?
@@theresagarcia1218 Yes I am in touch with a Financial Adviser and for the past 6months, I've been able to stay afloat the market crashes and I've watched my portfolio grow by over 40% these past few months.
@@mayacho4910 Wow, that's remarkable, who is your FA and how do you suggest I reach out to him/her?
Lots wrong with this comparison. It’s actually garbage. What about property taxes? Unexpected expenses and repairs, interest payments? If you have the upfront cash, then stock market is better. If you don’t, then real estate is probably better but that still depends… Either way, most rich educated people invest in the market and use real estate to diversify their portfolio. It’s the most logical move
Agreed, interest payments on 250000 nothing to just dismiss in video. Bad video
I totally agree, Properry management fee is already 10% of gross revenuen plus interest, mortgage (i find this as non spendable due it goes to equity instead), property tax, insurance, maintenance and repairs, and don't forget when the tenant leaves, you have a loss of income which means you have to pay out of your pocket for instead of from the revenue. There are times it could take months to fund a new tenant. worst case if the tenant don't pay and it takes time to evict them.
Yes.. you also need to pay tax on the rent you get
@@KikoY8 Tax Write off is a Thing when you own a Home or even get some Repairs for Free
@@aditya3454 Same with Rent Tax if You Repair or Remake the House Cold and Hot Resistance you get less Taxes and more Rent for 10 Years or more.
So much knowledge! Absolutely free! I was never taught anything about money, I am praying and working to change that. I am 46 no retirement no savings because I made a lot of mistakes when I started investing, trying to correct that now. Already have a few thousand$ saved up to invest for long term. I would like to know what advice you could give to start my investing journey. Listening to you gives me inspiration and wisdom. Thank you so much!
Just buy low sell high. Stick with a good company by either not selling when it's going lower and/or buying more at that time. Almost always the good well managed companies will come back strong at some point. The other is to get yourself a financial-advisor that can provide you with entry and exit points on the shares/ETF you focus on.
Thanks a lot for sharing man, I just looked
'John Desmond Heppolette' up on the web and I would say he really has an impressive background in investing. I will write a text a shortly.
Glad I stumbled on this comment 😊
excellent share, no BS. just copied and pasted his full name on my browser out of curiosity, thankfully his site came up after scrolling a bit, he seems first-rate.
S&P 500 and forget about it
You wouldn’t just invest $50k and call it quits for 30 years. If you’re reinvesting in real estate by borrowing from the equity then naturally you’d add to your stocks as well. In that event, stocks will destroy real estate over 30 years. I was doing both but have concluded that stocks are the far better long term outcome and am just keeping one house for a roof over my head and throwing everything else into stocks
i knew before even watching this shit he was going to pull some bullshit like that
Can you elaborate on the numbers you used for this conclusion?
Exactly. Let's use the simple example of taking the $843 per month for the mortgage (like in the video), but invest it each month in the S&P 500. $50k + $843 each month at 10% per year gives ~$2.6M after 30 years. But you have to calculate that if you don't live in a house, you have to live somewhere! It costs money. BUT! When we have a mortgage, we pay interest! So there too we lose money. This video is not complete.
Same Here One House and the Others are In Stocks or other things maby another House Buy in 25 Years but now Stocks are it.
Not covered is the major headaches involved being a landlord. Continual upkeep, wear and tear, dirty tenants, non-paying tenants, difficult eviction procedures, and on and on. I’m sure they make great investments but comes at the price of your time and sanity. No thanks, stocks please!
Great point. Also the contrast to refinancing is a drop in the stock market, making your investments on sale. Buy more for when the market rebounds.
If that is your sole profession then it would be alright I suppose
Have you thought about hiring a property manager?
@@lionel170They eat at your returns…might as well choose another investment at that point.
Agreed it’s not for the weak.
I wish I could have retired in my 50's. I'm 65 now, I started investing late . After some research, I found a strategy that helped. I'm pleased to say I'm retiring with at least $2 million.
It’s worth noting that luck often plays the significant role in some cases, sometimes even more than the resources involved. Without it, its challenging
@@RonnieWine luck plays a part, especially in the short term. I noticed that when results remain consistent, it indicates something more than just luck. research was the challenge until It led to Julie Ann Lerch, a fund manager. her strategy made sense, it contributed to growing 950k into this and counting
@@MichaelGabreil I pasted the name into my browser and her page popped up as a top result. appreciate you pointing that out
Dude if you are actually managing to increase the value of the property i.e. maintenance, remodeling. refinance to cashout and invest on another property then it’s not passive income. You are working!! If you actively manage and regularly trade honing your skills and knowledge of the market for 30 years and something you completely left out the snowballing effect of dividends reinvested. Stocks would easily beat investing on properties.
I think investors should always put their cash to work, especially In 2024, we'll start to see more market diversification. I'm hoping to invest about $350k of my savings in stocks against next year. Hope to make millions in 2024
Since risk is at an all-time high right now, perhaps you should be a little more patient and return when it has decreased. Alternatively, you can consult a trained financial expert for strategy.
I’ve been looking to switch to an advisor for a while now. Any help pointing me to who your advisor is?
I searched for her full name online, found her page, and sent an email to schedule a meeting. Hopefully, she responds soon. Thank you
If you borrowed the money for 250k of stocks instead of 50k it would be a fair comparison. Round 6, the amount it is worth after 30 years would then be about 41/2 million for stocks delivering you an asset of about 5 times properties'. Passive income would then be 250 a month and growing at 10% as opposed to 3%. Maintenance, repairs and council rates would leave you with next to no passive income from the property each month. Conclusion, this comparison is deeply flawed.
If u borrowed 250k for shares , shares would be miles ahead at 10% rate of return. One would have over 6million in 30 years. Something a property can’t achieve.
@@Peter-zv4dxThe difference is you’ll be borrowing an unsecured loan on a more risky investment. If the market is stagnant or there is a crash it’s a recipe for disaster when you factor in the interest.
The problem with real estate is that your return which is lower than stocks and around 4%-5% will be affected when you can't find someone to rent it and lose money due to mortgage payments or property tax. Being called from time to time by the renter to fix things, after one renter leaves you need to refresh the apartment, you need to renovate it every X amount of years if you want to keep it attractive and rent at your desired price and not to mention, some renters stop paying, don't leave and cause damages so get a lawyer ready.
Yes, the value shouldl raise with the years but its basically updating according to the real estate market so your purchase power stays more or less, the same, at least in that area.
It was just important to state that from my experience
It's called the "hidden costs"
I'll choose stocks everyday. I foresaw this current housing crisis and sold my property. I then put it in the market. That was late February. I've lost more than 40% of my portfolio's value. It makes me really sad. How can I turn this situation around?
This is really sad. If you're not who understands strategies to invest in the market, why not seek a financial advisor to help you grow your portfolio?
I agree. Having an investment advisor is the best way to go about the stock market right now. I’ve been in touch with a coach for a while now mostly and I made over 95% profit within about seven months or so.
That's impressive! I could really use the expertise of your advisor. Could you recommend who you work with, please?
The advisor I'm in touch with is *Sharon Louise Count.* There are other good FAs online too, if you look around.
Thank you for this. I'm gonna check her out and try to reach her. I hope she gets back to me before my portfolio is completely gone.
It’s hard to measure the impact on a career that owning property could have. The time commitment, energy, and stress required for buying and managing property could negatively affect some people’s career whereas others may be unaffected in that regard. I personally would rather put as much into my career as possible without other distractions and spend my other time decompressing and enjoying life while passively investing in a way that is mathematically almost certain to provide financial independence.
Solid logic mate
Mmmm pop
That’s why you have property managers
@@hiyoutube9204 property managers wil only help you to get tenants handle the communications but the decision making, when something is broken they will ask for you before getting quotes or will ask you to get your own tradie if they dont have one. It all depends on the property too. If its an old property the wear and tear is too much that as if you dont have a property manager
@@hiyoutube9204 that charge you 10% as management fees, and call their mates to do repairs on your property, rather than you, yourself finding tradesmen at cheaper rates, and materials
You need a home to live in, but in my experience dividend stocks are better than real estate for investing.
Investing in stocks, and making a real estate business on the side - *Mind-blown*
haha awesome 🙏
That's my plan!
That calculation only works if $ 250,000 house/condo goes to $ 1,000,000 after 30 years.
That’s not always the case.
My friend bough a condo 21 years ago for $ 280,000 in suburb of Chicago.
Today 21 years later the price is $ 300,000
Investing in the 500 most powerful and successful companies in the world is 1000 times better.
If you buy 500 houses most likely the price will go up 5 % a year. If you buy 1 house/ condo there is no guaranties. It is a comparison to buying a single stock. The price may go up, down or no change.
But then there are also examples of houses going up 10% per year in certain places or countries...and depending on the time frame,,, stocks have only returned 5%...so it's tricky... I guess this just gives a high level overview for each 👍
I've been a property investor. However, if someone was starting out today: I would say go with stocks to start and only get a property when you have about 1/2 the purchase price in your stock fund. At that point you can use a margin loan for the down payment and only be borrowing against 40% the value of the stock, you are unlikely to have to deal with a margin call--and even if you do you can take out a second on the house to cover it. The combination of the house+stock is a much more powerful combination than either on their own.
Interesting strategy Randall. thanks for sharing 👍
@@NathanHQ The thing is: stocks and real estate are often counter cyclical. When one is up, the other is down. If you own both, you run much less chance of big overall fluctuation in your net worth. Some folks get nervous because trading stocks ouside an IRA/401K, you are potentially subject to capital gain tax. The thing is: sooner or later many small business people will have a lean year in which you need money. That is a fine time to cash in an index fund, which is of course liquid. I made a big mistake getting overly extended into property early on and NOT investing in stocks when i had a chance. Stuff like Robinhood make this much easier now.
@@randallburns5704 "NOT investing in stocks when i had a chance" Don't blame you. ETFs weren't popular then until last 10 yrs ago, investment properties were the only option, stock picking will win only for those very wise/knowledgeable or very lucky, only 4% companies out of the tens of thousands responsible for generating most of the wealth on the sharemarket.
@@holycow3355 there were discount S and P 500 funds even 30 years ago--but not the diversity of funds that are around now. The thing is: I hadn't even started reading up on this area back then.
Brilliant!
You can get collateralised loans against stock assets without having to sell, allowing ownership to continue and appreciate further until eventually equity appreciation dwarfs the loan...that's like remortgage of stocks no?
UNFORTUATLY , there are some cruel points missing such as :
- regarding "Capital Gains" we can achieve much higher gains with stocks using margin.
- "Influence": sound good for properties only on paper, because we are paying interest rates every month , but there is no GUARANTEE that the property will generate rental income every month.
therefore there are lots of points missing in favor of stocks.
@🄰🄳🄼🄸🄽 Don't try that again !
i believe you can influence the stocks by buying more stocks through the 30 years
Informative. I’d also like to include selling options (Covered Calls & Cash Secured Puts). Roughly with a $50k account in the stock market, you could bring in an additional $750 - $2k/month. But of course, the caveat is that you must own 100 shares as collateral (or cash equivalent to 100 shares).
To compare accurately the stocks alternative should also be leveraged 4 to 1, and refinanced later.
Interesting take... I guess this is more designed for a beginner to follow. Nice point though 👍
Wrong. You can borrow against blue chip stocks.
Also factor how much interest you are paying to the bank in 30 years for property. Finally factor tenants destroying your rental property.
I will need to disagree.
you can leverage stocks returns too.
For the passive income part, you did not take into account property taxes, insurances, vacancy, repairs. With all of those extra expenses, it could be an additional $400-1,000 per month depending on location. Stocks have the advantage here
The cost of upkeep and things breaking over a 30 years period must be considered.property taxes and refinance fees plus closing costs also...stocks all you to just buy and forget it and free up the most valuable thing you have which is time.
Round 4 was wrong because there is no passive income in real estate.
You have to stay active and be available.
Even if you have a property manager you still have to manage the property manager!
Hi - I see your point and it is kind of true..there is no real passive income... but in the eye of the law..that type of income is passive income and it is taxed at a different rate to earned income 👍
@@NathanHQ but not globally
Ive just recorded a video on this same topic and came to the same conclusion as you. Ive delved deeper into calculating the yearly profit (as well as capital gains) from a property investment to address some of these comments re the interest expense. Video will be published this saturday 😊
There are expenses related to property which directly don’t benefit an increased value such as base maintenance costs. What if the water heater blows, etc? That results in additional time, money and effort which is important to have a part of the calculation. Maybe you have your own house and need to maintain two? Then you need to start having employees and the ecosystem grows. Just saying. Like you said yourself it’s hard to compare, it’s like apples vs pears.
Yes fair points..., there is so much more that goes into property for sure... but the end result was like $2 Million right? so a few thousands in costs wouldn't really effect the end result too much 👍
The water heater goes out like once in 10 years it’s like a couple 100s 😂. What happens when the market crashes and your stocks crash so you can’t withdraw as much?
House property value also depreciate after 25 years..
Same time some stocks gives thousands time returns.
I believe Stocks wins. (But Keep in mind the rent of the house is major factor what can be earned in 25 years).
One thing I would like to have seen in here is the diversification benefit. I personally own a property that I live in, I have previously owned a rental, and I/my wife (if the taxman is asking) have shares. One of the benefits of shares is it is quite easy to diversify yourself. Property ties up a lot of capital, and there can be factors outside of your control that totally change your outlook (change in supply/demand), or things like accidental or malicious damage (which I found a constant issue), and also the balancing around laws and the rights of the tenant. The fact that property takes up a lot more capital and cash flow means I see it as a higher potential reward & higher chance of financial constraint as well.
Yes all great points but impossible to include everything for both investment... this was just to give an overview of the returns with a typical example. Nice points though 👍
The Feeling you Get Owning A House is much better than the Numbers game because you need more Stock Earnings to Buy A House what can get more expensive than you even make with stocks.
Buy stocks, buy property if you can get a hella deal and flip, forget tenants, did it for 25 years. Made a lot selling my property but if I really sit down and think about, it wasn’t worth it.
Dont forget the insurances, life insurances, LMI, landlord insurances. Building insurances, management fee etc. so basically, stocks won on that part😊
At least if something bad happens to the property, the insurance will cover the damage. However, if a company goes bankrupt, there's no insurance to cover the loss in stock 😅
> propery is a buisness, renters are clients
Yes, BUT you can't guarantee your clients to be paying for 25 years for two businesses (two houses), there will always be months or years without people renting your property, AND in that case, that's a very bad situation, the rent should be going to the mortgage, but you don't have it. how would you pay it? your own money!
I wished you clarify more on this, but great video overall!
No maintenance on Real Estate?
Stocks, no leaverage. Real estate, leverage.
Love how you make things easy to understand!!
Easy and biased.
You forgot insurance and property tax . In California that would be about $250 for taxes and insurance about$250 for an extra $500 on top of $843.. for a total
Of$1,343.
Objection! One of the key benefits for the stock is “liquidity” 🤪🤪 it's easier to get back money when you need to. But property... 🙈
Yes fair point 👍
Liqudity has disadvantage too. You can easily sell a stock before bullish times and loose potential profit. Property is better for amateurs, they can't jump in and out so quickly so the property has chance to rich higher price in years.
Also "liquidity" doesn't really factor in to how fast you can get to 1mil. The categories he covered were correct :).
Also, not calculated in is the time spent on the properties versus the extra time you would have to earn extra money and reinvest into the stock market
Also in this was a basic index. You can own stocks and take dividends and reinvest them to buy more of that same stock, speeding up the process of compound interest.
Now here’s a kicker, you could refinance and take that capital and put it into a stock, say like Apple that on average in the last 10 years had a rate of return of 28%. At just half of that is 14%, more than 10%. There are so many different avenues!
Your best bet is to do both!😊
No to mention when you pay off that house and you rent it out even more cash flow.
I own both and I don't agree with your comparison. With property, you have to pay property tax, school tax (In Canada) then the endless repair and maintenance. As for passive income from rent, its not that rosy. There are instances where tenants don't pay rent for months, court case, stress ........etc. Its not easy.
My own view if you can pay off property then you can decide when the time is right to sell takes off some pressure off. Plus also keep pumping money into isas and pension your in a good position for an average person.
Nice tips Stephen...thanks for sharing 👍
If you get a property manager that alleviates alot of those concerns. Also i saw a lot of people talk about the damage a renter can do. Well thats a tax right off. Cash flow is the smallest part of owning property.
This assumes that the market continues growing at an average of 10% per year, which may not happen. We’ve been in a recovering market, and we aren’t so much anymore, which has drawn up the average return.
It’s good to diversify. Invest in BOTH stocks and real estate to truly grow your empire!
Are we going to ignore the fact that you have to pay almost double of the loan total to the bank after that 30 years because of interest?
Also, stocks are also compounding at double the rate and what about if we reinvest the dividend back into stocks? You will only start getting paid by the house if you physically move out into another house, and rent the original house out but this is AFTER 30 YEARS! The house is a liability up until you get renters in it
You can borrow against stocks now as well
5:10 Expenses= Mortgage.....TAXES & INSURANCE also? Also, even two years ago few if anyone could get a 3% rate on a loan for a rental property.
I would take the net gain from property and invest it into a index fund ... passive building more passive
Good strategy I think... thanks for sharing 👍
@Blake no. Shares has a better return especially when you have big dollars from gains on property. If u put $250k in shares and bought a property outright for $250k shares will win in the end. Its the leverage that makes property better.
Flawed analysis. You have the equalized the leverage into the S&P 500. Additionally mortgage includes taxes and insurance. For homes you have to estimate the operating expenses such as utilities and maintenance which you mentioned. In addition you didnt include closing costs. For stocks you can continually increase your stock investment. However safe to say both are way better than cash. We agree 👍
I could go on and on. Some people love real estate investing but from an intelligent standpoint it is not the best investment.
OPPORTUNITY COST! THAT is the single variable making stocks better L/T. Real estate is perhaps for those with more discretionary time and enjoying reals estate issues. OPPORTUNITY COST is highly underrated!
Yes, great point 👍
Let's use the simple example of taking the $843 per month for the mortgage (like in the video), but invest it each month in the S&P 500. $50k + $843 each month at 10% per year gives ~$2.6M after 30 years. But you have to calculate that if you don't live in a house, you have to live somewhere! It costs money. BUT! When we have a mortgage, we pay interest! So there too we lose money. This video doesn't show everything you need to know.
Another Fab vid: I laugh and learn. The best combination. I really like you. You made a clear, precise, and entertained vid.
Glad you enjoyed it! 🙏
Some valid comparisons on the intangibles like involvement and control. but for the financial comparison, lots more need to be covered. Need to mention more detail behind the math. Refi are not free, house renovation is not free, maintenance is not free, so all that cash flows are missing on both cases. $2,173 rental on a property worth $1,080,485, that is a bargain.
You forgot to include the property taxes, maintenance cost and insurance when you calculate cash-flow for a property.
Stock market can be a business as well. Your customers would be the people you sell signals to.
Capital Gains round fails to consider financing. Interest exp lowers your returns
Hi - the ultimate value of the property isn't impacted by interest payments on your mortgage though?
Do both. Hedge your bets
Interesting comparison!
Having grown up around the Real Estate industry, it is definitely a business. My dad thinks I'm insane for investing in stocks (outside of his 401K, he's 100% in Real Estate), but it's my down payment money for the next property (already own a house). Why lose value due to inflation when you can invest it in great companies that will easily outpace a measly savings account?
Hi Francesca - It's smart to put the money to work...only downside risk is a crash which could last 1-2 years
That is true, there is risk with any decision.
another benefit of real estate is get a place to live, if u invest in stocks however u will have to rent a place to live
Wait something is missing here. You can borrow against your stocks as well and leverage that to buy more stocks. Something feels like it's missing here.
With regular monthly investments dollar cost averaging stocks would win 🏆
2) 3% home loan is a thing of the past. Its probably double that now. Also, When a tenant moves out you are paying full mortgage until a new tenant moves in. This will cancel out months of that "passive income"
Don't forget to add insurance/taxes/HOA/property management fee, and load of headaches to property.
Increases in home owner insurance isn't mentioned. Seems it's a good idea to invest in both.
I own both you have good points but regarding the real estate you forgot to deduct the cost of having renters, the cost of maintaining the home the increase in insurance, and property tax, and if you have an HOA homes don't always increase in price...I can go on and on rentals are good but stocks are passive long term
Real life is different than paper… They say you’re supposed to count on 1/2 of whatever profits (because of maintenance) you expect from a rental property and I’ve found that to be true. You also would have to put in $100k in the house around about the 15 year mark to keep it up to standards of the comps then maybe even doing that again around year 30 especially if you need it appraised for refinancing. Also for every period of uncertainty in stock market during a recession it’s usually preceded with real estate down trends. Then add on I’ve never gone 10 years let alone 30 without some sort of major repairs not just updates. It all adds up and just not a concern with stocks. Also did you adjust your profits from the refinanced home? In order to pull out $65k in 5yrs they likely extended you back out to 30 and increased your mortgage payment unless there was a substantial decrease in rates your payment would be higher.
WOW! Your channel has just exploded! So happy for you my friend. Big liked #478. Aloha 🤙
haha thanks mate 🙏 Aloha
In what world would the proper analogy be a single family home to an index fund? An index fund is a collection of fractional shares and a single family home is one larger investment (similar to a standard stock). I would have liked to see this video compare a single family home to an average performing stock. The equivalent of an index fund would be a portfolio of single family homes across a wide span of neighborhoods.
Excellent video! Thanks for sharing! 😊
Thank you! Cheers! 🙏
people should wake up and invest in themselves instead of taking their money and investing it into somebody else’s company like the stock market. invest in yourself you can control the outcome
What if you took a $65000 margin loan and bought more stocks? Of course leveraging more will get you more returns. If nothing bad happens to wipe you out.
Sell the properties to fund retirement also
I think you need to look at your numbers again as they are way off in round 4. You say rent return on property trumps stocks per month, but you only took into account a mortgage repayment on the property, leaving a high monthly net return. I have an investment property and pay: council rates, land tax, property manger fees, property insurance, maintenance, tax, etc ect every month, and these do add up. Once you deduct these costs from the net return off the rent, the figure you quote is in reality far less each month. Not knocking your video, but you seem to over-simplify the true property investment costs. I must say you do have a nice video production quality 👍🏻
Its always a leverage question
Hi thanks for the video. If i may, the assumptions are not accurate and you are not comparing apples to apples. You should compare all what you pay for the house (250k+mortgage interests+maintenance fees) to the same amount in stocks, not just to 50k. And in this case, stocks win with a huge edge
So this house apparently is exempt from property taxes?
I think you gotta factor in expenses of home ownership, the MER if stocks is factored into the ROI there
A lot of leeches in property : spruikers, council, land tax, property manager, ripoff tradesmen, not to mention shit tenants, one sided govt regulations, the list go on & on !!!!
Yes, great points...you certainly have to earn those extra returns for sure 👍
Not a fair comparison, I think. You neglected to consider the costs involved with your mortgages and refinancing costs... as it stands, your calculation assumes you paid off both mortgages for free, and the refinancing cost is $0. No interest paid, and no principal paid... free home equity!
Hi - well the interest is being paid by the tenants. And yes, all the small costs were left out to keep it simple and give a high level overview for each. It's virtually impossible to do a like-for-like comparison.
Since the beginning of the year, I have purchased a few equities, but nothing significant. Why am I being so unkind to this? The fact that others in my field make six figures each piece, nevertheless, motivates me to want to be the first member of my polygamous family to earn a million dollars. I am fully aware of the expense of working more to get more money.
Even though there will probably be more pain in the future, without a doubt, the Fed is to blame for the exceptional catch-up measures currently in place since they were initially too slow to control inflation. Many people do, in fact, downplay the value of financial professionals until they are experiencing emotional turmoil. I definitely remember needing encouragement to continue running my business.
You're not doing anything wrong; you simply lack the expertise necessary to make money in a bear market. Only highly knowledgeable professionals who had to witness the 2008 financial crisis could expect to make a sizable income in these turbulent times.
@@oscarjiron6974 I need advice on how to rebuild my portfolio and come up with new strategies because of the significant drops. Whereabouts of this advisor's city?
@@AnthonyHart34 It's funny you brought it up because I totally get it. Although I have dealt with several financial advisers, "sharon lee casey" has so far shown to be the most knowledgeable and capable. I'm not sure whether I can disclose this. She also manages my portfolio.
@@oscarjiron6974 I can see why she is so busy because she has a respectable career and strong credentials. So without waiting, I quickly copied Sharon's full name and entered it into my browser.
Very good information great video as usual, I would like to find out more about how to find the right and best index funds.
Hi Jim - awesome, I have covered that and will certainly do more on index funds. Thanks 🙏
Very good food for thought. I have a BTL but it gives me so much more hassle than an index fund investment.
Yes, exactly right.... it will make you more money but you have to work for it lol 👍 congrats on your BTL though. Great problems to have 👍
I own BTL, but I’m slowly selling them and investing in index funds. Less hassle
Great video❤
Thank you very informative.
Thanks Amir 🙏 glad you enjoyed mate
Look for Turkey. We had the opportunity to invest there. I feel so lucky my father did it.
Edit: I am not talking about stock market since it is risky but the property invesment in Turkey is nowhere near the any other country you could imagine.
For example;
Yalıkavak
Akyaka
Bodrum and more
How can you give the advantage to homes for being worth $200k more when you went $200k into debt to buy?
At best it is a tie with same profit and even that is generous because the house investment is 5x greater
"Minimal learning" for stocks. 😂 Takes awhile to get comfortable with stocks, in my opinion. So much information out there. Initially hard to parse through.
Capital gain tax on principal place of residence = ZERO
Yes, a great benefit to your own property for sure. Thanks for sharing 👍
Real estate is king
👑👍
Thank you really was helpful ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️
love it, thank you
What I’ve learned from this video Is to invest in both
I think thats a very good point 👍
I don't think the last point is accurate . I can have multiples stock options too . Like. multiples houses
You had me worried at one stage in this Video Nathan, but as initially expected and thankfully property takes the winning position. Great video, not easy to do, well done.
haha no, I found it crushed the performance of stocks.... though there is much more work involved than a simple index tracker for sure
@@NathanHQ your not wrong, I`ve got some door hinges, a fridge and a roof to sort next week. I`d rather be sat in the sun with a beer but that's the price you pay with the higher return investment I guess.
You forgot to take into account the cost of maintaining the house (Regular maintanance, property taxes ect )
Yes fair point 👍
Can you make a video of what you think is the best stocks to buy now in the 2nd half of 2023?