Very interesting. Just this week I was looking at motors, as generators, and reviewing what I have learned so far. This is an unexpected bonus for the week. Fascinating , as you say.
you are always like a kid in a candy store, it is so refreshing see you having fun with science. It reminds me of being a kid in science class always trying to blow shit up
I'll be darned! How did I go 50 plus years of learning about how things work and missed this!!? HAHA! :D Yes! Very fascinating! I'm going to build my own demonstration unit because that is just too amazing not to! Thanks Robert for sharing this and I look foreword to seeing the results of your motor experiments!
Sir you are amazing, I like everything related to magnetism and EMS, but your explanation made me love them even more! Thank you so much 😊 I wish our instructors to be like you
Brilliant !!! Well done as usual I see this taking off quite literally now to create a new transformer to go along with the new high torque motor I'm on it!!
Really nice, I think it will definitely improve current saving. As long as the magnetism on the magnets is strong enough it may give an advantage to a motor.
Welcome back Rob, fascinating. Excited to see the results. I wonder would you be best having an odd number of teeth in the rotor vs even magnets in the stator... but I'm guessing you'll show us what works best in due course!
There was a Kickstarter campaign, OpenGrab, using the same principe(but not as a motor), the low switching rate is great in their application. A motor won't be great because you constantly change the polarity, which gonna heat up the magnets and then killing the neodymium mag. charge. But a great idea about a new kind of motor: the trouble is the remaining distance between stator and rotor poles, lesser the distance higher the magnetic force. Build a motor with direct contact between rotor and stator using the rolling motion in a hypocycloid gear configuration. Each extern "tooth/sin.cavity" of the hypocycloid being a coil moving/rolling the rotor (magnet/pole) to the next cavity of the gear. Kind of motor/gear combination with very high torque output (when using 100 coils & 99 poles).
Reluctance motors without permanent magnets do not exhibit back EMF. The output of the motor is determined by the strength of the magnetic field and the speed in which the field changes from pole to pole. Magnetic fields are based on current per length of wire, or magnetization per amp. The longer the wire, the stronger the field. There is a coil design in which creates a field stronger than a typical coil for the same length of wire. A bifilar wound, series connected coil will produce a stronger field than a single strand coil for the same amount of wire. The potential for these motors to produce more mechanical output than electrical input is within reach and could rewrite the books on the amount of watts per horsepower. A bedini recovery circuit is a perfect addition to this type of circuit. As each coil is turned off, it's field collapses generating a massive voltage spike. By shunting this spike into a capacitor, we can store the energy, otherwise wasted, to generate the field on the next cycle. If we can recycle half of the energy required to establish these fields, it's possible to make a motor that exhibits over unity effects.
+Tyler A i'm not sure about over unity - but the efficiency would certainly be improved - who knows to what degree - i think the answer it to build it and see - but then i would lol
+Robert Murray-Smith The "over-unity" I speak of is producing 1 mechanical horsepower with less than 746 watts of electrical input. With no back-emf, high efficiency coils, and a recovery system to recycle the transients, it's very possible.
+Robert Murray-Smith I used to have a small makeshift lab in the back of a computer repair store. Work on such a design has fallen to the back burner as life requires a full time job.... 8 hours of sleep + 8 hours of wage slaving + 1 hour commute + 1 hour or more for meals + 2 hours of chores makes for very little time to invest in such a feat. I think our system is designed to suppress us in such a way as to give us so little time for actual self-reflection and research to prevent garage tinkerers from developing products and solutions that threaten the status quo. A motor that is so efficient as to double or triple the mileage of current electric vehicles would turn the auto industry upside down and cause a huge ruckus within the world of science. Not to mention the monopoly that would form out of patent rights...
Fascinating as always Robert. You probably already know, as mentioned by a few people here, this appears to be similar to what Ed Leedskalnin called his "perpetual motion holder". There are many youtube videos showing various replications. The use of the permanent magnets though is very interesting. Also following your EESD with bated breath.
Mr. Murray-Smith, how much power does it take to affect the change?, and is that juice used up by the magnet or is it just the passing of the electricity in proximity to the coil that does the trick?
Very good Robert will be waiting for update .May even have a go myself The two magnets different metals has me thinking .I have been a bit obssesed about Neodimium on my projects .Thanks for info.
Robert, will your setup attract a magnet and then let it go? Or will your setup attract metal and then let it go? In the video you show the release but not the attract? The neo will always be on and should attract the keeper. But when the keeper is latched then it can be released. In the Bedini motor the magnet to core attraction is free and then a release is needed to let the rotor pass the magnet. Would your setup do that? If so you might already have your motor. Norman
Its a cool idea, but if I am not mistaken, a switching a hard magnetic material is inherently a lossy affair. Especially when going to high frequencies, selecting magnetic materials with a small hysteresis loop becomes important to efficiency. Now as frequency goes to zero, this type of motor would have a unique selling point; holding torque without energy consumption, which could be quite useful indeed in the right context. But it is more likely to catch on for say, motors to adjust seat position, than for setting new mileage records.
Mr. Murray-Smith, Is there any 'math' out there for designing motors of this sort? I have formulas for the design of BLDC motors but nothing for these. I'd like to design an axial one. Thanks, Paul
Cool :-) I'm assuming the strength is only limited by the magnets used, whilst the power needed to switch it remains relatively tiny. So whopping great high strength neodymiums can be effectively switched on and off with a little -battery- *ESD*. Upgraded to _Very Cool_ \o/
+Fred Gandt lol - i think the switching power will be proportional to the magnet strength mate - but at this stage i am not sure - i will have to look at it
***** said pretty much the same thing where I shared this. I was rather hoping that the _path of least reluctance_ (never typed that before) could be _kept_ with a relatively weak weak (not a typo) magnet and suitable keepers - so the switching power could remain relatively _weak_. If I had stuff, I'd do testing myself. The only magnets I have are stuck to my fridge.
I asked the question about leverage on your Energy video because if I built a Magnetically Assisted Switched Reluctance Motor of a large diameter with numerous magnets. My design has 12 poles and 8 magnets.My device will be opposite to your design as the centre rotor will revolve .The magnets on the rotor will be fed by a commutator. 4 magnets will always line up and four magnets will always be at 15 degs offset.I was thinking the distance the magnets are from the centre shaft will give it a mechanical advantage. I made a magnet last week I can't stop playing with it . larger magnets on order .This could be a fun project Thanks you are an inspiration
Hi Robert, I would like to point out that the laminations are not oriented in the good way in order to prevent Eddy currents from circulating (assuming you are switching polarity frequently). When you build the motor prototype, please take care of this aspect; it could have a great impact on efficiency. By the way, very interesting! Can't wait to see further development. Cheers!
As usual, very cool. Are you planning to use your own switching equipment? Are you going to use something like a frequency drive with integrated gate bipolar transistors and all that? How many poles are you using? Are you going to use any of your own materials to build these parts? I have so many questions. If anyone could pull this off it would be you.
+Joshua Fausset lol - cheers mate and i am planning on developing the switching system too - we will probably use around 50 poles - maybe a hundred - not sure right now - the plan is to drive it pretty much the same way as a BLDC motor - which is, essentially, what it is
can you tell me the name of the device you show, I'd like to look into it a bit more, and which 3 year old video are you referring to pretty please with sprinkly bits on ;)
+bridgendesar look here mate en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electropermanent_magnet the older video is on the list - at the beginning - can't remember exactly it was 3 years ago and i will do just what you will have to do and that is look lol
Hey Robert very interesting ideea...I am thinking if would be posibille to put this principle in a working solid state generator.. the ideea is: take a normal transformer,remove the midlle leg ( that give E shape to transformers) and put instead , a pair of magnets wraped with coil you shown us ...another 2 colector coils can be coiled on remaining left and right part of transformer...so by pulsing the middle magnets like you did, we will have an on -of magnetic field that will be inducing energy to colectors from the magnets....
You may have just shown us a way to make a perpetual magnetic motor. I have saved this video in case it ever disappears from TH-cam. I recommend others do the same. It also occurs to me, if that's true then energy "storage" becomes obsolete! Oops! You may have just made your EESD obsolete. ;-)
+ZeroFossilFuel My linear/rotary magnet motor thingy majiggy thing is going back on the drawing board. This may be the trick to making it work. and this should have plenty of delay for. Wow Robert this is just way to cool :)
Hey Robert. Thanks for that demo! I am curious about how much voltage/current you supplied on that switched magnet and (roughly) how many wire turns you had?
+clixbits I thought so too, how ever the difference is to release the metal you need to supply a reversed polarity (current). I don't think it would be sufficient to only shortcut the leads, but perhaps Robert will tell us if that works?
very groovy...missed your old vid about the concept so glad you revisited the idea... as you're just using impulses through the coils you'll be able to collect the flyback spikes and re-cycle most of the power it uses, like an SSG... I'm sure you already thought of that but mention it just in case...
+Johnny Doe understood mate - but the prove up takes time and there is a fair bit of waiting in between - plus i get complaints if i don't post anything - i guess there is no pleasing everyone
But in the ordinary motors of this kind magnetic fields of the rotor poles alternate with the current not just switch on and off. This is because it has to push off and pull to the same stator pole.
+Robert Murray-Smith, I think there can be something a lot like cogging in a SWM if the waveform to the electromagnets isn't very well tailored to both speed and load, but no cogging in the PM sense anyway.
+сталкер чворович Hi, the neo doesn't have to be pulsed. It doesn't even have to be too close to the soft magnet, as long as the keepers are a little wider or u-shaped. Then the coil can be wound on the soft magnet only. See the wikipedia link in these comments above (or search wikipedia for electro-permanent magnet) for a good explanation .
Robert Murray-Smith I used 30AWG wire and about 160 turns on the magnets. The magnets are 2 inches long and 1/4 inch diameter (of course one neodymium and one alnico). Bigger wire and fewer turns? Try to flow more current at a lower voltage? Thanks! Love your vids!
+David Niemela cheers mate - that is not many turns for the size of magnet - i used a couple of hundred turns for a half inch by 1/8th inch magnet - so - thinner wire more turns and less volts lol
I think the problem is that you can't switch off the permanent magnets so when the rotor is moving away it is now fighting the magnet. Maybe I missed something; are they not permanent magnets? If permanent, the the proposed design has a whiff of perpetual motion to it and the path has been traveled before.
+Robert Murray-Smith, ok I'm guilty as charged. I had watched the vid on my kindle while making breakfast and missed the keeper mechanism restricting the field of the two different types of magnets. It certainly looks like something to explore. I think it will come down to how much power it takes to get the non-neo magnet to fully cancel the neo and whether this is less than what it would take to power a simple electromagnet. I'm also thinking you'd want a different number of nodes in your stator from the rotor as in a switched reluctance motor to get smoother and more efficient motion but I realize you were just drawing a quick diagram to get the gist across. A very interesting concept that I hope you continue exploring and posting the results for us to see, and apologies for rushing my first viewing and jumping the gun.
+Robert Murray-Smith, the concept is new to me but now that I google it there are several startups already. Here is a US patent from 2014: www.google.com/patents/US8674576
I am going to make a motor after watching this brilliant demonstration.The only question I have is what voltage and amperage was used in your demonstration. keep up making your videos they are brilliant
Awesome, gonna get my brain cells thinking on that one!Is this technique used anywhere like a pick and place machine? Also, would it work with a ferrite magnet and a neo?
very interesting concept! I wonder if heat would be an issue in a motor setup? I have always thought a big out runner LRK wound brushless motor would be a good car choice. I wound my own lrk motor for my model airplanes as a teenager. brushless was brand new at the time in rc airplanes and I could not afford to buy one. I made it out of an old computer zip drive motor and neo magnets. Lrk winding provides an electronic gearing of sorts. I could hover the plane on that motor!
A video would be nice but this was many years ago! The bearing cup for the bell housing started getting loose so I stopped using the motor. Don't remember if I tore it down for parts or kept it someplace. Was quite fun!
I'm thinking of trying this for a coil gun. One of the problems, especially with small ones, is keeping the coils on until the round is almost there, then cutting them off. This might help, as I think I can just kill it by pulsing it at the same time as the next coil in line. Will need far more coils, though, as they will be weaker than electromagnets.
Very interesting thanks. I'm no expert but before the perpetual motion enthusiasts get excited, I would guess there might be complex time/magnetic flux changes taking place (hysteresis), during the micro-second excitation phase, that might thwart efforts to obtain high efficiencies.
+zebok3 that doesn't seem right mate - this is a switched reluctance motor - they are fairly standard - the only 'tweak' is the hard/soft magnet switching - so likely problems will be hard magnet demagnetisation and heat generation - did you do a video of your motor?
+Robert Murray-Smith Sorry, no video. It worked great for a few minutes, then the keepers grew permanently magnetized and just stuck to the iron nodes of the rotor! Maybe transformer laminations or high permeability keepers might help; but the kind of keeper you're using won't demagnetize sufficiently to keep the rotor in motion after a very short time span!
+zebok3 these are transformer laminations. Mate - this is not new tech - nor even my tech - there is a lot of backup to this - i get a feeling you did something wrong as opposed to the idea being unsound - but i don't really know - it would have been good to see what you built - to see if you went wrong - but ah well.
+Robert Murray-Smith Just build a small "Ferris Wheel" with PVC uprights and pie plate discs with iron bars sandwiched in between, and short the stator as you do, and see how many times you can repeat that before the laminated keeper saturates and sticks due to permanent magnetization. The sticking goes away by itself after awhile, but the effect is cumulative. It's a serious drawback to an otherwise very promising idea.
+zebok3 We are beginning to go round a circle on this one mate - this was the subject of a master thesis which you can read here dspace.mit.edu/handle/1721.1/60151 the motor was pretty thoroughly explored
555 timer on a transformer? I noticed that most people use a microwave transformer and only have one horizontal secondary coil. With the E shape of the flanges you could wire each of the sides vertically so that one coil is 'biased' toward amps, while the other would be toward volts. Using the right diodes you could make a "2-cycle" transformer that boosts amps and volts from the same power source without "interfering" with the laws of science.
Awsome. I so want to see it working. A high torque motor that works with 'permanent magnets'. I had seen another guy on youtube who put permanent magnets in a reluctance motor but o his video it didnt work, in fact the magnets diminished de rpm. But your project is totally different from what he did. He literally just put permanent magnets on top of the coils. with this weirdly brilliant coil you made things might be different.
+Lonely Lobo yeah i saw that - i couldn't understand why he did it that way as all he was doing was saturating the core - it was bound to reduce efficiency
This is why some Galaxies float away & some attract ~/~ passage of magnetic flux for opposing magnetomotive force lines is Worth testing out, sounds kewl! Have fun Robert. I wonder what the lifting strength comparison is between this "cancelling switch" set-up & just the Neo. If it's 50% or grader in strength then the Neo alone than timing "should" yield some improvements for yous. Seems like one could calculate power ratios with that bit of this information. Sounds like fun. By the way, I heard new theories base on my magnetic alignment suggestions that I kept telling them about! & they actual agreed that Dark energies & dark matter are a crock of poopoo. I wish I could get some street credit.. lol Peace Out!
First of all: the sound stage in your videos is fantastic through my samsung ear buds the dodgy standard ones. I expect you have some really amazing microphone and you have worked out the acoustic centre of your room; I expect that's the kind of thing you would do for fun. Secondly, this is a really interesting concept, I expect your outer rotor would have to act as a fly wheel of a kind to capture inertia and that inertia and it's stability will be a limiting factor. I imagine with a laser tachometer and a responding switching timer you could "tune" through your range of speed. Prospectively the resistance of the coil would become more significant as you are repeat the switching, in my mind the current v. magnetic flux would be my first port of call after you build the motor. I expect you could cool it easily using mineral oil. Comment is now far too long. I expect you've already gone through this and I mean no offence by offering thoughts. I was inspired by your video.
cool video Im thinking this could easily make an efficient solenoid motor ...a push pull type motor ...i need to build one an mess with it as well... thank you again for the videos..
Tesla brought me here...LOL Konstantinos Laskaris head of Tesla motor design is a genius, of course the electronic controller and software to make it all work. In Tesla motor and they use 4 magnets with holbach setup.
your beginning to scare me with what you have done this past year.if Fred Gandt's assumption below is correct.this is on par with the cells and the combination would be mind boggling.great experimenting and thanks for sharring.ahhhh now of to buy stock in magnet companies chuckle
Robert - thanks for sharing this concept. Surely it could be adapted to the deflection gravity wheel. One pulse to attract/deflect and another to turn it off when latched into its deflected spot.. see this th-cam.com/video/u3LozLBAvbc/w-d-xo.html Norman
Rob, your ability to distract me with things I ought already know is delightfully maddening. I now must go compare and contrast this effect with these other two demonstrations: (My Favorite Leedskalnin PHM) th-cam.com/video/Oa4oBUBSEzs/w-d-xo.html (Oh Nuts!) th-cam.com/video/YhiAIsJCS9Y/w-d-xo.html FWG!
Truly fascinating. Old tech, but this is the first I've seen of it. I have been following the free energy sites for years and even have a couple of prototypes on the go myself. I would expect the magnet motor crowd to jump all over this one. Or maybe they already have? Lutec. for example. I don't know too much about Lutec other than their website disappeared a few years back. Check out the motor/generator in this video. th-cam.com/video/huLhq190A_Y/w-d-xo.html It has all the makings of a switched reluctance electro-permanent magnet motor with ac generator on top. Complete with bridge rectifiers to charge the 2 large capacitors next to the motor. Why 2 caps? Simple, one to provide the "ON" pulse and the other to provide the opposite polarity "OFF" pulse. Could this be the tech behind the Lutec generators and others like it.?? Hmmm......
Your video does not age, like always its amazing. thanks a lot.
Very interesting. Just this week I was looking at motors, as generators, and reviewing what I have learned so far. This is an unexpected bonus for the week. Fascinating , as you say.
+PhilipStephens007 -Español glad it helped mate
you are always like a kid in a candy store, it is so refreshing see you having fun with science. It reminds me of being a kid in science class always trying to blow shit up
+Manuel Cilia lol - cheers mate
I'll be darned! How did I go 50 plus years of learning about how things work and missed this!!? HAHA! :D Yes! Very fascinating! I'm going to build my own demonstration unit because that is just too amazing not to! Thanks Robert for sharing this and I look foreword to seeing the results of your motor experiments!
+James Kincaid go for it mate and give me heads up when you do the vid
Wow! Very interesting video, great explanation and demonstration :)
+Blast glad you liked it mate
I found it very interesting when you shared it 3 years ago and I'm glad to see that you are back to it.
+HANS BRAUN I finally found a use for it lol
Sir you are amazing, I like everything related to magnetism and EMS, but your explanation made me love them even more! Thank you so much 😊 I wish our instructors to be like you
Brilliant !!! Well done as usual I see this taking off quite literally now to create a new transformer to go along with the new high torque motor I'm on it!!
+DrSaminstine cool - let me know how it goes
Love You! Robert! For the choices you make of demonstrations For The Greatest Interest, and for your Very Clear Pedagogy :)
+Didier Khwartz thank you mate - lol - it's kind of you to take the time to write
My Pleasure to encourage you in the limits of my means! ;) Regards, Didier.
+Didier Khwartz bless your heart mate
It reminds me of persistent mode on superconducting magnets, except with permanent magnets. Cool stuff, keep it up!
+Jared S cheers mate
Really nice, I think it will definitely improve current saving. As long as the magnetism on the magnets is strong enough it may give an advantage to a motor.
+zerpBot yeah my thoughts too
Brilliant Robert.....can't wait for the next instalment !!
+Tony Smith cheers mate
Awesome video! Can you say what voltage you used to pulse the magnet?
Welcome back Rob, fascinating. Excited to see the results. I wonder would you be best having an odd number of teeth in the rotor vs even magnets in the stator... but I'm guessing you'll show us what works best in due course!
+TheBaconWizard odd even poles to teeth mate - well that's my guess
+Free One indeed
There was a Kickstarter campaign, OpenGrab, using the same principe(but not as a motor), the low switching rate is great in their application.
A motor won't be great because you constantly change the polarity, which gonna heat up the magnets and then killing the neodymium mag. charge.
But a great idea about a new kind of motor: the trouble is the remaining distance between stator and rotor poles, lesser the distance higher the magnetic force.
Build a motor with direct contact between rotor and stator using the rolling motion in a hypocycloid gear configuration. Each extern "tooth/sin.cavity" of the hypocycloid being a coil moving/rolling the rotor (magnet/pole) to the next cavity of the gear. Kind of motor/gear combination with very high torque output (when using 100 coils & 99 poles).
+AltMarc I like the thinking mate - thanks for that - you are 100% right the gap distance is critical - inverse square law lol
Reluctance motors without permanent magnets do not exhibit back EMF. The output of the motor is determined by the strength of the magnetic field and the speed in which the field changes from pole to pole. Magnetic fields are based on current per length of wire, or magnetization per amp. The longer the wire, the stronger the field. There is a coil design in which creates a field stronger than a typical coil for the same length of wire. A bifilar wound, series connected coil will produce a stronger field than a single strand coil for the same amount of wire. The potential for these motors to produce more mechanical output than electrical input is within reach and could rewrite the books on the amount of watts per horsepower. A bedini recovery circuit is a perfect addition to this type of circuit. As each coil is turned off, it's field collapses generating a massive voltage spike. By shunting this spike into a capacitor, we can store the energy, otherwise wasted, to generate the field on the next cycle. If we can recycle half of the energy required to establish these fields, it's possible to make a motor that exhibits over unity effects.
+Tyler A i'm not sure about over unity - but the efficiency would certainly be improved - who knows to what degree - i think the answer it to build it and see - but then i would lol
+Robert Murray-Smith The "over-unity" I speak of is producing 1 mechanical horsepower with less than 746 watts of electrical input. With no back-emf, high efficiency coils, and a recovery system to recycle the transients, it's very possible.
+Tyler A sounds good mate - definitely something to aim for - if you get there before me i'll be annoyed lol
+Robert Murray-Smith I used to have a small makeshift lab in the back of a computer repair store. Work on such a design has fallen to the back burner as life requires a full time job.... 8 hours of sleep + 8 hours of wage slaving + 1 hour commute + 1 hour or more for meals + 2 hours of chores makes for very little time to invest in such a feat. I think our system is designed to suppress us in such a way as to give us so little time for actual self-reflection and research to prevent garage tinkerers from developing products and solutions that threaten the status quo. A motor that is so efficient as to double or triple the mileage of current electric vehicles would turn the auto industry upside down and cause a huge ruckus within the world of science. Not to mention the monopoly that would form out of patent rights...
+Tyler A I think you could well be right mate - i will just do this open source myself
WOW! That is avery awesome effect. Lookin forward to the next stage my friend. Have a great day.
+Raymond Earle cheers mate
Fascinating as always Robert. You probably already know, as mentioned by a few people here, this appears to be similar to what Ed Leedskalnin called his "perpetual motion holder". There are many youtube videos showing various replications. The use of the permanent magnets though is very interesting. Also following your EESD with bated breath.
+Q Absoloff no mate - it's just a BLDC motor - nothing more really
i first thought you were dealing with the old PMH......this is very interesting in a different way. off to research soft magnets now :) .......
+jeremy gwilt they are a fascinating subject mate
Mr. Murray-Smith, how much power does it take to affect the change?, and is that juice used up by the magnet or is it just the passing of the electricity in proximity to the coil that does the trick?
Very good Robert will be waiting for update .May even have a go myself The two magnets different metals has me thinking .I have been a bit obssesed about Neodimium on my projects .Thanks for info.
+Gerard Melvin no worries mate - do a vid?
Love it (and anything to do with electromagnetism!!), thanks Robert--nifty project to be working on.
+E. Lectricity cheers mate
Robert, will your setup attract a magnet and then let it go? Or will your setup attract
metal and then let it go? In the video you show the release but not the attract?
The neo will always be on and should attract the keeper. But when the keeper is
latched then it can be released.
In the Bedini motor the magnet to core attraction is free and then a release is needed
to let the rotor pass the magnet. Would your setup do that? If so you might already
have your motor.
Norman
+nebollinger it attracts the metal then lets it go
I think you only need to wind the coil around the soft alnico magnet, as half the coil's pulsed flux would be wasted on the neo
Its a cool idea, but if I am not mistaken, a switching a hard magnetic material is inherently a lossy affair. Especially when going to high frequencies, selecting magnetic materials with a small hysteresis loop becomes important to efficiency. Now as frequency goes to zero, this type of motor would have a unique selling point; holding torque without energy consumption, which could be quite useful indeed in the right context. But it is more likely to catch on for say, motors to adjust seat position, than for setting new mileage records.
Mr. Murray-Smith, Is there any 'math' out there for designing motors of this sort? I have formulas for the design of BLDC motors but nothing for these. I'd like to design an axial one. Thanks, Paul
Cool :-)
I'm assuming the strength is only limited by the magnets used, whilst the power needed to switch it remains relatively tiny.
So whopping great high strength neodymiums can be effectively switched on and off with a little -battery- *ESD*.
Upgraded to _Very Cool_ \o/
+Fred Gandt lol - i think the switching power will be proportional to the magnet strength mate - but at this stage i am not sure - i will have to look at it
***** said pretty much the same thing where I shared this.
I was rather hoping that the _path of least reluctance_ (never typed that before) could be _kept_ with a relatively weak weak (not a typo) magnet and suitable keepers - so the switching power could remain relatively _weak_.
If I had stuff, I'd do testing myself.
The only magnets I have are stuck to my fridge.
I asked the question about leverage on your Energy video because if I built a Magnetically Assisted Switched
Reluctance Motor of a large diameter with numerous magnets. My design has 12 poles and 8 magnets.My device will be opposite to your design as the centre rotor will revolve .The magnets on the rotor
will be fed by a commutator. 4 magnets will always line up and four magnets will always be at 15 degs offset.I was thinking the distance the magnets are from the centre shaft will give it a mechanical advantage.
I made a magnet last week I can't stop playing with it . larger magnets on order .This could be a fun project
Thanks you are an inspiration
good luck with it mate - do some vids if you don't mind and keep me in the loop
What Grade AlNiCo did you use? Would an AlNiCo 8 magnet be switchable?
You are the meanest person on the planet.... teasing us with that eesd.
+Venturestarx lol - how's things your end?
Pretty good, I just did some rather neat tests, I'll PM you with some details.
+Venturestarx please do mate - you have my mail?
+Robert Murray-Smith Yes.
do you have any preliminary estimates for efficiency improvement?
+HANS BRAUN no mate - finate element modelling now
Hi Robert, I would like to point out that the laminations are not oriented in the good way in order to prevent Eddy currents from circulating (assuming you are switching polarity frequently). When you build the motor prototype, please take care of this aspect; it could have a great impact on efficiency. By the way, very interesting! Can't wait to see further development. Cheers!
+François Couture thank you for that mate
As usual, very cool. Are you planning to use your own switching equipment? Are you going to use something like a frequency drive with integrated gate bipolar transistors and all that? How many poles are you using? Are you going to use any of your own materials to build these parts? I have so many questions. If anyone could pull this off it would be you.
+Joshua Fausset lol - cheers mate and i am planning on developing the switching system too - we will probably use around 50 poles - maybe a hundred - not sure right now - the plan is to drive it pretty much the same way as a BLDC motor - which is, essentially, what it is
+Robert Murray-Smith But the more poles you use the more frequent switches are gonna be leaving less time for the magnet to work and using more energy
+dft sure - like anything there are going to be trade offs
can you tell me the name of the device you show, I'd like to look into it a bit more, and which 3 year old video are you referring to pretty please with sprinkly bits on ;)
+bridgendesar look here mate en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electropermanent_magnet
the older video is on the list - at the beginning - can't remember exactly it was 3 years ago and i will do just what you will have to do and that is look lol
this is like teslas ipm synRM ?
what voltage was required to switch it?
Hi Rob,
Hope you're well.......did you get anywhere with this ?
haven't got back to it mate still busy on the eesd
neat mate good luck with your motor can't wait to see it working 😀
+cool troops cheers mate
Hey Robert very interesting ideea...I am thinking if would be posibille to put this principle in a working solid state generator.. the ideea is: take a normal transformer,remove the midlle leg ( that give E shape to transformers) and put instead , a pair of magnets wraped with coil you shown us ...another 2 colector coils can be coiled on remaining left and right part of transformer...so by pulsing the middle magnets like you did, we will have an on -of magnetic field that will be inducing energy to colectors from the magnets....
You may have just shown us a way to make a perpetual magnetic motor. I have saved this video in case it ever disappears from TH-cam. I recommend others do the same. It also occurs to me, if that's true then energy "storage" becomes obsolete! Oops! You may have just made your EESD obsolete. ;-)
+ZeroFossilFuel oops lol
+ZeroFossilFuel My linear/rotary magnet motor thingy majiggy thing is going back on the drawing board. This may be the trick to making it work. and this should have plenty of delay for. Wow Robert this is just way to cool :)
+Robert Murray-Smith Robert do you have any idea of the current needed to make the switch. Is there a min amount needed?
+VulcanGasifier you can calculate it mate - look here for guidance
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electropermanent_magnet
+Robert Murray-Smith Thanks Robert, some serious math going on there. :)
Hey Robert. Thanks for that demo! I am curious about how much voltage/current you supplied on that switched magnet and (roughly) how many wire turns you had?
+Cere Mony 100 turns at 12 volts - i am not sure about the power as this was just a quick demo and no effort was made to measure efficiency
Thanks! I love your videos and your enthusiasm for educating! Keep doing whatchoo doing!
+Cere Mony lol - thank you
This is brilliant! I can't believe you only have 2 likes and no comments
+Jason Goldthwait it went up lol
Robert Murray-Smith I would like to see how this could be applied in a motor/generator... Nice work and GOD Bless!
+Jason Goldthwait working on it mate - cheers
+Robert Murray-Smith Looking forward to seeing the video!!!Good luck
+Jason Goldthwait cheers mate
Ed Leedskalnin's PMH comes to mind.
+clixbits I thought so too, how ever the difference is to release the metal you need to supply a reversed polarity (current). I don't think it would be sufficient to only shortcut the leads, but perhaps Robert will tell us if that works?
+deslomeslager you need to reverse pulse it to change the polarity of the soft magnet
very groovy...missed your old vid about the concept so glad you revisited the idea... as you're just using impulses through the coils you'll be able to collect the flyback spikes and re-cycle most of the power it uses, like an SSG... I'm sure you already thought of that but mention it just in case...
+sceptic33 it's certainly an option mate - but i think i would just like to see if it worked first lol
that's brilliant mate! wolud this be part of the Edison Electron One project? cheers!
+Francesco Di Mauro we are going to stick it in a motorbike
(joking tone) Rob,you're killing me man.I'm chomping at the bit to see that EESD in action x D
Yeah he is a tease but that's show business keep them on the edge of their seats wanting more lol
+Johnny Doe the viewers of this channel have had to cope with more teasing and teasers than Star Wars fans. I am dying to see that EESD too.
Me too. The SVLT seems to keep posting what they are going to do but I have seen anything actually done. Hopefully Robert will save us.
+Johnny Doe understood mate - but the prove up takes time and there is a fair bit of waiting in between - plus i get complaints if i don't post anything - i guess there is no pleasing everyone
+Rubicon V read the reply to Johnny doe's comment mate
But in the ordinary motors of this kind magnetic fields of the rotor poles alternate with the current not just switch on and off. This is because it has to push off and pull to the same stator pole.
There are both brushless AC motors and brushless DC. This would be an example of brushless DC, I believe anyways.
+Henery Hancock rather a stepper motor but inverted to put it inside a wheel
+dft this is not an induction motor mate - it's a type of switched reluctance motor - there is no cogging in switched reluctance
+Henery Hancock it's a type of switched reluctance motor mate - the drive system is very similar to BLDC motors
+Robert Murray-Smith, I think there can be something a lot like cogging in a SWM if the waveform to the electromagnets isn't very well tailored to both speed and load, but no cogging in the PM sense anyway.
Ed Leeds kalinya referred to that as the perpetual motion holder
+Clown Whisper i am not sure it is like that mate - it's more like a BLDC motor
im thinking that its ther same physics its a different setup to be sure
i am about 90% sure you will get higher efficiency but how long do you think the neo magnet will saty magnetic if you pulse it constantly?
+сталкер чворович it is pules both ways so probably longer than you think
+Robert Murray-Smith so when you pulse it the other way it will compensate i see
+сталкер чворович well - i think so - but the answer is really in the build
+сталкер чворович Hi, the neo doesn't have to be pulsed. It doesn't even have to be too close to the soft magnet, as long as the keepers are a little wider or u-shaped. Then the coil can be wound on the soft magnet only. See the wikipedia link in these comments above (or search wikipedia for electro-permanent magnet) for a good explanation .
That ESD looks massive! would love to see a video on it! How much energy does that thing hold? Always enjoy your videos mate, thanks for sharing.
+proteinman1981 a lot mate - i am still testing it and i hate to say stuff without the back up figures for what i am saying
What voltage are you applying to switch it? I built a device like it, hit it with 60vdc and nothing. Do I need to get braver with the voltage? Thanks!
+David Niemela 24 volts - try changing the number of turns in your coil
Robert Murray-Smith I used 30AWG wire and about 160 turns on the magnets. The magnets are 2 inches long and 1/4 inch diameter (of course one neodymium and one alnico). Bigger wire and fewer turns? Try to flow more current at a lower voltage? Thanks! Love your vids!
+David Niemela cheers mate - that is not many turns for the size of magnet - i used a couple of hundred turns for a half inch by 1/8th inch magnet - so - thinner wire more turns and less volts lol
I think the problem is that you can't switch off the permanent magnets so when the rotor is moving away it is now fighting the magnet. Maybe I missed something; are they not permanent magnets? If permanent, the the proposed design has a whiff of perpetual motion to it and the path has been traveled before.
+Marty G You missed something mate lol - this is a switched reluctance motor with a tweak - no PM here lol
+Robert Murray-Smith, ok I'm guilty as charged. I had watched the vid on my kindle while making breakfast and missed the keeper mechanism restricting the field of the two different types of magnets. It certainly looks like something to explore. I think it will come down to how much power it takes to get the non-neo magnet to fully cancel the neo and whether this is less than what it would take to power a simple electromagnet. I'm also thinking you'd want a different number of nodes in your stator from the rotor as in a switched reluctance motor to get smoother and more efficient motion but I realize you were just drawing a quick diagram to get the gist across. A very interesting concept that I hope you continue exploring and posting the results for us to see, and apologies for rushing my first viewing and jumping the gun.
+Marty G lol - here's some of the math on it mate en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electropermanent_magnet - anyway - you really should know better from me lol
+Robert Murray-Smith, the concept is new to me but now that I google it there are several startups already. Here is a US patent from 2014: www.google.com/patents/US8674576
+Marty G I know mate - i was talking about it 3 years ago - it is just fun to investigate and new to a lot of people - so - the video
I am going to make a motor after watching this brilliant demonstration.The only question I have is what
voltage and amperage was used in your demonstration. keep up making your videos they are brilliant
cheers mate - i use a 6 volt supply but i can't remember what amps it pulled
Awesome, gonna get my brain cells thinking on that one!Is this technique used anywhere like a pick and place machine?
Also, would it work with a ferrite magnet and a neo?
+bridgendesar no mate - it has to be a soft magnetic material - ferrites are weak but hard magnetic materials - i think
very interesting concept! I wonder if heat would be an issue in a motor setup? I have always thought a big out runner LRK wound brushless motor would be a good car choice. I wound my own lrk motor for my model airplanes as a teenager. brushless was brand new at the time in rc airplanes and I could not afford to buy one. I made it out of an old computer zip drive motor and neo magnets. Lrk winding provides an electronic gearing of sorts. I could hover the plane on that motor!
+Isaac Schlittenhart do a video mate- i would love to see that
A video would be nice but this was many years ago! The bearing cup for the bell housing started getting loose so I stopped using the motor. Don't remember if I tore it down for parts or kept it someplace. Was quite fun!
+Isaac Schlittenhart i hate to say this mate - fancy redoing it?
Very interesting! Well done!
+Arkiver Unified Energy cheers mate
I'm thinking of trying this for a coil gun.
One of the problems, especially with small ones, is keeping the coils on until the round is almost there, then cutting them off. This might help, as I think I can just kill it by pulsing it at the same time as the next coil in line.
Will need far more coils, though, as they will be weaker than electromagnets.
AncapFTW use monopole starship coil.
Very interesting thanks. I'm no expert but before the perpetual motion enthusiasts get excited, I would guess there might be complex time/magnetic flux changes taking place (hysteresis), during the micro-second excitation phase, that might thwart efforts to obtain high efficiencies.
+Jeff Harmed yep - it might well do mate
Brilliant mate!
+Aaron Harper cheers mate
I tried to build this motor and discovered that the magnetic keeper saturation causes it fail in a very short time.
+zebok3 that doesn't seem right mate - this is a switched reluctance motor - they are fairly standard - the only 'tweak' is the hard/soft magnet switching - so likely problems will be hard magnet demagnetisation and heat generation - did you do a video of your motor?
+Robert Murray-Smith Sorry, no video. It worked great for a few minutes, then the keepers grew permanently magnetized and just stuck to the iron nodes of the rotor! Maybe transformer laminations or high permeability keepers might help; but the kind of keeper you're using won't demagnetize sufficiently to keep the rotor in motion after a very short time span!
+zebok3 these are transformer laminations. Mate - this is not new tech - nor even my tech - there is a lot of backup to this - i get a feeling you did something wrong as opposed to the idea being unsound - but i don't really know - it would have been good to see what you built - to see if you went wrong - but ah well.
+Robert Murray-Smith Just build a small "Ferris Wheel" with PVC uprights and pie plate discs with iron bars sandwiched in between, and short the stator as you do, and see how many times you can repeat that before the laminated keeper saturates and sticks due to permanent magnetization. The sticking goes away by itself after awhile, but the effect is cumulative. It's a serious drawback to an otherwise very promising idea.
+zebok3 We are beginning to go round a circle on this one mate - this was the subject of a master thesis which you can read here dspace.mit.edu/handle/1721.1/60151
the motor was pretty thoroughly explored
Interesting, thanks for sharing
+Steve Allwest no worries mate - glad you liked it
Very interesting video
555 timer on a transformer?
I noticed that most people use a microwave transformer and only have one horizontal secondary coil. With the E shape of the flanges you could wire each of the sides vertically so that one coil is 'biased' toward amps, while the other would be toward volts. Using the right diodes you could make a "2-cycle" transformer that boosts amps and volts from the same power source without "interfering" with the laws of science.
Awsome.
I so want to see it working. A high torque motor that works with 'permanent magnets'.
I had seen another guy on youtube who put permanent magnets in a reluctance motor but o his video it didnt work, in fact the magnets diminished de rpm. But your project is totally different from what he did. He literally just put permanent magnets on top of the coils. with this weirdly brilliant coil you made things might be different.
+Lonely Lobo yeah i saw that - i couldn't understand why he did it that way as all he was doing was saturating the core - it was bound to reduce efficiency
+Robert Murray-Smith I thought the same thing when I saw that video.
+HANS BRAUN it was a bit odd wasn't it
This is why some Galaxies float away & some attract ~/~ passage of magnetic flux for opposing magnetomotive force lines is Worth testing out, sounds kewl! Have fun Robert. I wonder what the lifting strength comparison is between this "cancelling switch" set-up & just the Neo. If it's 50% or grader in strength then the Neo alone than timing "should" yield some improvements for yous. Seems like one could calculate power ratios with that bit of this information. Sounds like fun. By the way, I heard new theories base on my magnetic alignment suggestions that I kept telling them about! & they actual agreed that Dark energies & dark matter are a crock of poopoo. I wish I could get some street credit.. lol
Peace Out!
+Dan Murphy the next thing to do is a bit of finite element modelling mate
Thank you for your videos, I really enjoy them. But for god's sake use some kind of microphone. The echo makes it hard to understand you.
+Povilas Skrebė I am sorry mate but you get what you get
First of all: the sound stage in your videos is fantastic through my samsung ear buds the dodgy standard ones. I expect you have some really amazing microphone and you have worked out the acoustic centre of your room; I expect that's the kind of thing you would do for fun. Secondly, this is a really interesting concept, I expect your outer rotor would have to act as a fly wheel of a kind to capture inertia and that inertia and it's stability will be a limiting factor. I imagine with a laser tachometer and a responding switching timer you could "tune" through your range of speed. Prospectively the resistance of the coil would become more significant as you are repeat the switching, in my mind the current v. magnetic flux would be my first port of call after you build the motor. I expect you could cool it easily using mineral oil. Comment is now far too long. I expect you've already gone through this and I mean no offence by offering thoughts. I was inspired by your video.
+Nick Tonkin It's a zoom H2n - nice microphone - though i am still tweaking it
cool video Im thinking this could easily make an efficient solenoid motor ...a push pull type motor ...i need to build one an mess with it as well... thank you again for the videos..
+Stacy Williams sounds like a good plan mate - do a few vids and give me a heads will you?
Fantastic.
+jameswoll cheers mate
I wonder if anyone ever made a relay like this.
I sure hope some room temp superconductor can exist.
Wow
And now it’s in the Tesla Model 3. Nice!
Tesla brought me here...LOL Konstantinos Laskaris head of Tesla motor design is a genius, of course the electronic controller and software to make it all work. In Tesla motor and they use 4 magnets with holbach setup.
Should make a good lock
+aslimline S i believe it is used for that mate - also magnetic chucks use this principle
your beginning to scare me with what you have done this past year.if Fred Gandt's assumption below is correct.this is on par with the cells and the combination would be mind boggling.great experimenting and thanks for sharring.ahhhh now of to buy stock in magnet companies chuckle
+bill bailey lol - i am looking at alternative soft magnetic materials right now mate lol
Clever.....
+Roger Green cheers mate
it's already a thing tho
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electropermanent_magnet
+roidroid cool - that saves me a lot of work - thanks for the post
Robert - thanks for sharing this concept. Surely it could be adapted to the deflection
gravity wheel. One pulse to attract/deflect and another to turn it off when latched into its deflected spot..
see this
th-cam.com/video/u3LozLBAvbc/w-d-xo.html
Norman
+nebollinger give it a go mate
Rob, your ability to distract me with things I ought already know is delightfully maddening.
I now must go compare and contrast this effect with these other two demonstrations:
(My Favorite Leedskalnin PHM)
th-cam.com/video/Oa4oBUBSEzs/w-d-xo.html
(Oh Nuts!)
th-cam.com/video/YhiAIsJCS9Y/w-d-xo.html
FWG!
lol - cheers mate and thanks for the link
Truly fascinating. Old tech, but this is the first I've seen of it. I have been following the free energy sites for years and even have a couple of prototypes on the go myself. I would expect the magnet motor crowd to jump all over this one. Or maybe they already have? Lutec. for example. I don't know too much about Lutec other than their website disappeared a few years back. Check out the motor/generator in this video.
th-cam.com/video/huLhq190A_Y/w-d-xo.html
It has all the makings of a switched reluctance electro-permanent magnet motor with ac generator on top. Complete with bridge rectifiers to charge the 2 large capacitors next to the motor. Why 2 caps? Simple, one to provide the "ON" pulse and the other to provide the opposite polarity "OFF" pulse. Could this be the tech behind the Lutec generators and others like it.?? Hmmm......
+Dean Couillard do you know mate - i think you have it there - very cool