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@@lucasribeiro7534Exactly, much of this is generational sensibilities evolve into new kinds of singers and voices. It's inherently about generational preferences, not bias.
Another great video. Tone policing of voice types through marketing and acceptability is something that many great voices have experienced. Great big voices going nowhere because it’s “too raw” “too emotional” and honestly “too black”!
Trying to tell you!!! Get rid of the soul and you have total machine vocals. That auto tune technology changed the whole trajectory of singing as we once knew it😔
This is such a good video topic!! Justice for the likes of Patti Labelle who constantly was pissed on for her tone when she’s been killing it since the early 60s!!!!
@@edwardwheeler197you definitely have a point here. Her technique has always been impeccable but the musicality is definitely an acquired taste. Funny enough though, that’s the most difficult thing to master.
My goodness, I clapped when you called out the racial bias. People called me crazy af when I told people the connection. I thought it was obvious and these younger Black Ppl are starting to get on my nerves calling everything hollering, and then wonder why they’re so disconnected from Black Culture so much.
I think he was calling out the racial bias of Italians whom the French and Germans said were screaming when they sang; though, I don't know if it had anything to do with them being Italians, since I see no evidence of that, but I digress... So this alleged racism has nothing to do with black people; it's European on European bickering.
I'm a fan when singers yell like Michael Jackson. It's so intriguing and raw, and scratches an itch in my brain. Like makes a singer want to be aggressive and holler like that? It's real electrifying and commanding.
Dreamgirls is the embodiment of this in a movie/play. Thank you for letting me know that I am not crazy. I've have said that we have all these beautiful, perfect, technical and controlled modern voices that evoke next to nothing. People with styles that have imperfections and visceral emotions are not well tolerated. Music is now overly commodified and no longer a spiritual experience that connects humans. Good or bad, only time will tell... People like to act as though history doesn't impact the present. Historical events shape culture. Racism, colonialisation and slavery were a big part of history that impacted everything - EVERYTHING! You all just have to accept what is and understand how it shaped the world as we know it. Excellent work Sir!
As a whole, our Alto sisters don't get enough love IMO. I sing saprano in my choir. Generally, in our music arrangement, we sing the melody so our parts are usually easier to learn by comparison. So the altos are not only underappreciated, but have to learn the harder harmonies as well. Personally, i love the dark richness of a lower voice.
Thank you for saying that. I was often relegated to the alto parts even though my range extended into soprano. But had to sing alto because I could sing Harmony.
If all Patti did was scream, she wouldn't be able to sing at 80 like she has. And it's interesting how Patti's voice seems more preserved than Mariah's.
I enjoy the vocal tonality of Aretha Franklin, Whitney Houston and even Natalie Cole. These three are powerhouses along with Ledisi, Fantasia and Amber Riley. Also this is a fabulous video.
I would like to say thank you so much for this because I feel like this contributes to where we are today in music with the “the girls don’t sing anymore” rhetoric. Like they would shade a Jennifer Hudson, Patti LaBelle, Fantasia etc. but within the same breath ask where are the “SANGERS”. Baby they’re hiding because they don’t want to be ridiculed for something they can’t even control because tone is not something you can just fix 😒 but then praise my girl Whitney not understanding it wouldn’t be no her without the hard, tough, raspy singers!!! Now what’s even crazier is that I’ve been seeing, hear and there, ppl shading Whitney saying she was doing to much or not that great…. It’s getting weird out here I swear!!!!
This made me emotional because of my own bias towards my own voice and the agility I wish I had. Even though growing up I grew up listening to my mother (who is the best female tenor I know) and aunts sing and only a handful of them had soft silky high tones. Listening to the Clark sisters, and Kim Burrell, and then Brandy and usher, or Stevie wonder, or more recently Kenyon Dixon, or Alex Isley. I think culture swayed us to think lighter voices are “better” singers.
@@MrBreezyTV hopefully you’re back at it. What I’m learning that’s helped with my insecurities is to just keep singing. If I crack, if I mess up and remember the more I work that muscle the better I’ll be
Black women in general have been getting pushed out of the mainstream music scene for a while. In preference for mixed raced and non black women with light sweet voices and tones. A racially ambiguous voice is what people prefer. Nothing that sounds “too black”. They’ll often lack power with heavy emphasis on runs and vocal acrobatics. Sometimes I’m just thinking ok can these people actually sing or are they just good at runs. We overdo the celebration of runs. Some of them use that to just to mask their lackluster voices
Your could literally chsnge this comment and praise the ones who can sing agile as the actual singers, while the big voiced ones as the ones who can't. They are just different voices with different strenghts. That"s why opera developed a classification system that showcases the strenghs of each type of voice. And in opera everyone developed a big rich hoice and learned how to be agile. (Nowadays opera singers are just terrible though).
Anyone doing crazy runs is reallllly not someone whose voice I would call “lackluster”. Everyone is different and everyone has things they’re better at, and some singers are better at melisma than with belting. Brandy, for example. She’s literally called the Vocal Bible, but by your definition, she can’t sing. Jennifer Hudson isn’t super agile, but she can blow with her crazy resonance and range. And we have singers that are great at both like Beyoncé, Mariah, Kelly Clarkson, Tori Kelly, I can go on
Oooh I keep finding out more about Langston Hughes that makes me side eye him each time. He had a lot of respectability politics that steered his perspective. Gospel music calls for a ferocious sound because the genre itself came out of pain and testimony. And Gospel music is from Black Americans. There really is tonality bias and I hadn’t known this before until his Brandy upload. I love the deep, rich, heavier, grounded sounding voices! It’s actually becoming very rare overtime.
Langston was a MESSY Misogynist 💯 TBH I'm not surprised someone *struggling with their queer identity and proclivities would have the gaul to judge others ! Just because someone is astute or brilliant in one area doesn't absolve them from human frailties 🌚✨
@@bmwjourdandunngoddess6024 ALOT of our early Black Male scholars, educators, pundits , socialites, personalities, entrepreneurs, and entertainer's.... the true renaissance men so to speak where Very Much Queer . I just find it both astonishing and sad that many of these men kept their figurative foot on the necks of their black female counterparts !
@@100_Percent_PURE_LUV Yep! He had an issue with Zora Neale Hurston and her honoring of Black American Vernacular English in her writing and now, I’m finding out about his disdain for Black women who sang with the Gospel sound. There for sure can be intersectionality with being LGBTQ and being misogynistic.
When I was back in high school choosing my solo song and leaning towards Patti LaBelle who I grew up listening to, I never forget how my (very white) vocal teacher chastised her tone. I was later singled out over my "steely" tone by another arts teacher who made me self-conscious and pressured me not to sing around her. As someone without a "pretty" tone, I appreciate you and this video and breakdown
I have a wide range of singing styles I happen to enjoy. I've heard many people express negative criticism of voices that range from Patti, Aretha, Whitney, Minnie and Mariah to Gladys, Phillis, Anita and Toni. When I hear this my reply is "there is a reason this is called soul music". When these artists do what they do it comes from a place deep within called the soul. Great video!
I have always been stunned how one singer can be loved by some and hated by others. I had a good friend who thought young Whitney Houston could not sing. I was shocked!!!
This was such a great video! I didn't realize how racism shaped even the way voices are perceived. I have long lamented the absence of powerful singers in the past 15 years and I think this definitely has something to do with it. A related video idea that I think would be interesting is the concept of "oversinging." Many singers I enjoy (young Beyoncé, Avery Wilson, and most gospel singers), are accused of doing to much in terms of vocal riffs and runs, and i often wonder if there is a true threshold for vocal acrobatics or is it another matter of "preference."
I have always thought that Deep, Darker voices on women were so beautiful and sexy. Anita Baker (The best among them Imo…) Lisa Fischer (Although her upper register can be very bright), Teyana Taylor, Carmit Bachar, T-Boz, Kandi Burruss, Etta James, Gladys Knight, Tina Turner, etc. I just think there’s something so special about Deeper voices. They’re a rarity. (Sidenote: I also LOVE Mariah Carey’s lower register, and speaking voice. Although her voice can be SO bright and flourish in the mid-higher end of the 5th octave, I have always found how deep her voice can go to be fascinating.) Thank you for always posting these insightful videos, me and my best friend have had this conversation so often… where not only Darker skinned women, and taller Black women are hyper masculinized by idiots; but, how many women with deep voices we grew up around… I just think it’s such a dumb thing to nitpick? Not everybody is meant to sound the same.
Give me gospel and true powerhouse voices with a rich tone anyyyyy day!! My theory is that most of today's music is "light" and very "airy" in tone because it's easy to sing along to. Most of today's music is "lite bite music" and produced to fit the tiktok mould. I don't believe today's music will be looked back on in 50 years with such admiration like we do today with Aretha, Whitney, Patti, and gospel heavyweights. This music and these voices are eternal. 🙏🏻
Nicely put, a lot of today's music is made to relate instead of wow. The melodies are kept small enough for a lay person to be able to sing along to, as opposed to aspire to do. Even in rap Drake is more popular than Kendrick - it's much easier to match Drake's cadence and flow than Kendrick's which would require multiples listens and attempts. In that way though, a lot of the music is forgettable - in that it doesn't challenge you musically/emotionally/energetically. There's nothing to learn or experience. It's all immediately evident -- and therefore vapid.
The point is not to have a music industry in the next 50 years esp. since certain people are afraid of blacks becoming too influencial in the world, that's why today's pop music is so mediocre. Certainpeople are using mediocre talent where its not about the artform but acquiring fame and a little money.
@@bmwjourdandunngoddess6024I think Britney popularized the lighter tone in modern pop singers. But I think it's worse nowadays because everyone sounds the same and they use the same "cursive singing" accent that makes words incomprehensible.
Yes! Dinah Jane mentioned in an interview that producers and record labels instructed her to tone down her voice when recording Fifth Harmony songs because her sound was "too soulful". That shit pissed me off cause she had the most powerful and soulful voice of the group and imo thats what the group lacked 😭 Also, justice for Jennifer Holliday!! She's been downplayed for too long and the fact that she's become so humble and graceful even though she went through so much is inspiring!! She deserves her flowers and praise every time there is a vocal conversation ❤️ Nobody was gonna holler and give drama the way she did on Dreamgirls AND everything else that she put her stamp on. That "His Eye Is On The Sparrow" should be a staple among all singers!!😭
I love deep, gutteral, dark voices for a lot of blues, rock, folk and the like. There are so many layers to songs that are sad, ironic, bittersweet, angry, grief stricken, bargaining, frustrated, haunted, etc that a voice with so many layers adds to the storytelling. For happier or joyful songs (that arent sung ironically) i think holloring and a lot of gutteral vocal embellishments is impressive but i dont feel moved at all by it and sometimes it feels like it distracts from the lyrics. We probably associate types of voices with what we grew up with and i didn't grow up in a church or listening to people hollering Its interesting to see and hear something so different to me.
Maybe they don't have the tonal clarity of Mariah or Celine, but they have raw emotion, their sound is harsh but 100% authentic. Whitney had clarity, emotion and power - she had it all.
Madonna is a great performer. But she is not a great singer nor does she have tonal clarity in my opinion. In fact she didn't even get official vocal training till almost 3-4 albums into her career. Madonna is known for her high production quality and dancing and maybe even production skills depending on the album but not singing.
there are racial and gendered components to this convo as well. yt singers are praised for raw sounds that are reminiscent of the traditional black american practice. men are also praised for having raw/unpretty sounds.
That last sentence of the video was such a mic drop moment! 🙌🏾The world is moving to a place of detachment from the spiritual and emotional more & more. That’s why people who represent this suffer hardship in the industry. Beyoncé isn’t even as soulful as these wonderful ladies but still gets accused of screaming. When those performances are the most moving and connected spiritually✨
I heard somewhere that to help a content creator with their channel you should watch commercials in full. This is the only channel where I do not ‘skip’. You deserve ALL your coins!! Great video as always 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
It is also worth noting, when singers began recording vocals/songs in the early 20th century, they were forced to sing loudly and sometimes almost yell because of the poor recording technology. I do agree that yelling in Gospel music is intentional. When you feel the spirit, you've got no choice but to go higher or louder.
Stevie Wonder: I've met only three people who had a truly wonderful voice and spirit to match: my first wife Syreeta, Minnie Riperton and Mariah Carey!
The confirmation on that is that Whitney Houston loved her some Mary J. Mary's voice isn't for everyone, and that's ok. That'll be for those who'd appreciate her. I've been loving her voice since "You Remind Me".
Yeah home girl can definitely blow. Honestly a lot of times on social media people only show a few seconds of a performance that happened 20 years ago and then the commenters come to the conclusion “she can’t sing” based on a 10 second video.
At one point you could tell she had some training because her voice was A1. When they did the just stand up song Mary was the best vocalist amongst the group that had bey and Mariah in it.
They've literally whitewashed the music industry. I miss the deep, strong toned voices. It needs to be bought back. The 90's embodied great RnB music, with beautiful voices.
@@madmann1000 , That must be the gen z generation... I remember many millenials when they were kids and they would say Aretha is the bomb when her Rose is still a rose cd came out .
I love how this video points out the anti-Blackness in the use of terms like "light", "aggressive", "pleasant", etc. and several commentators are still using those terms. The point of this video went right over their head. Like what you like, but you should always question and understand the root of those likes and preferences. Thank you for this amazing video.
This was as usual, a great breakdown of the why of Black American Gospel voices. There is some particular racial bias concerning using the chest voice and it’s various effects in music journals of the late 1800s and early 1900s. But, as another commenter said, there is a place for every type of voice. I just wish there was more places for this type of voice as there was.
Growing up on Whitney Houston, I just prefer the clearer and softer tone. I personally can’t get with the more guttural, shouty timbre. There were some exceptions like Tina Turner and Janis Joplin, but I wouldn’t take away from their talent or ability.
wow, when I hear people sing like this I'm completely floored and can't get enough of it! I never knew this type of bias existed....but I'm not surprised by much anymore. People like me can only dream of being able to decently sing at karaoke, let alone belt out a beautiful Gospel song! I just would never think to call them "ugly voices", they sound incredible to my ear.
This is why I'll always love Whitney Houston bc she had both of both worlds. She had the gospel tinge and power but her tone was gorgeous and not shouty and aggressive. I hate the screaming and screeching in gospel music
@@maloneaqua what's wrong with hating Tone? I hate alot of people's tone and if I started naming them people would try to crucify me in here. But I absolutely hate a lot of singers tone so what's wrong with that?
She never did more than she had to and simply had beautiful resonance and knew that was enough. Yes she could do runs but her sustained tones are so beautiful and signature. Such a well rounded singer ❤
I guess I prefer tone more than screaming. But I also think some screaming are more pleasant than other. Like I love Aretha’s and Vanessa Bell’s but not JHud’s or Patti screaming.
I've learned to appreciate all of the different styles of singing and qualities in voices. As a person who can't sing, the first thing I try to focus on, is listening very carefully to the mood that the singer expresses. When I hear a "soothing" voice, it creates calm (or romance). An aggressive voice (squalls, growls) make me feel energy and excitement. BMA has taught me so much since the beginning. Thank you for teaching me.
My third comment 😅 lol.. it’s so funny bc one of my all time favorite male singers is Dino from H-town. I remember ppl made a vine mocking him screaming on the intro of Knockin Da Boots 😂 I’ve never heard a voice like his since (Rest his soul 🙏🏽) but it’s singers like him who make music so special. I’m forever grateful for the “screamers” I’ve gotten to hear in my time here in this earth. 🥰❤️
Love this series and channel. I think the narrator hits the nail on the head when discussing today’s vocal preferences. Consumers want to hear a more polished, vocally agile voice in today’s music, leaving little room for some of those deep and raspy tones I grew up hearing on the radio and in church. I’d also argue that consumers are more into prioritizing the lyrical content of music over the actual vocal delivery of the song.
seeing people commenting on today’s singer’ voices and how they are “bad”, i feel like people in a few decades are going to be critisizing singers of their period and how the airy singers of todays time were better. i think hating generations is something that has always happened and is probably going to happen as people like to think their time was better. i personally like both growly and airy voices, they each have their charm and what i prefer depends on what i am in the mood for
TYSM for mentioning my sweet Izora and Loleatta! Their stars have lit my path at times unsure. Their voices searing the night with exclamations of intensity that seemed to parallel my journey carried me through. I don't know where I would be or who I would be if they didn't prove that living is indeed something to shout about!
I love deep dark voices. They are exceptional when it comes to expressing emotions. The duende! Think the likes of Phyllis Hyman, Anita Baker, Mahalia Jackson, etc!❤
Not even half way into the video and i am already floored by the legendariness of what i'm hearing and who I'm seeing for the first time!!! Thank you so much for this valuable document of these incredible black women🌟🌟
My problem with Sissy is that there's seems to be an abyss between her chest and head voices. Not only that, but she didn't know how to dosage her use of head voice as seasoning for her chest voice, as Whitney became a master of doing. In other words, I don't think Sissy had much of a sense of musical esthetics, especially when trying to transition to pop. I also have to say that saying that Whitney was not better than her mother is unfair to say the least. It's like comparing an okay singer to one of greatest who ever lived. Having all that, I have to thank you profusely for such a great channel and all the precious teachings you've been bringing here! Oh, and that you look really hot!
Still, comparing Cissy to Whitney strengthens the point that she's being judged through the lens of Whitney and not as an individual singer and artist. They do many of the same things, but by and large, they don't use their voices the same way. If they did, there would be no reason for a Whitney Houston. And thank you lol
This reminds me of the previous video you did, Whitney Houston Viewer Talkback where there was a debate of who’s the best singer in the family: Whitney, Dionne, Cissy or Leontyne. And although you argued Dionne has the best vocal technique which makes her the best singer among the four, Whitney has the best tone quality which made her the most palatable and marketable to the masses.
There is also the inverse which wasn't spoken which is voices that are a bit smaller and not as strong or heavy as some listed here within black spaces. Often those types of voices are not considered as soulful or being able to really SANG unless their voice can do and or sustain the more rough sort of vocal production. Its often another form of bias and sometimes even internalized racism because what is soulful or what is black is NOT restricted to one form of voice or expression. There really should be room for everyone, their voices, and how they choose to express, but its sad what types of hurdles people have to face not just only because of how they look but also how they sound, which somehow hits differently because it literally comes from a more internal place.
@@bajangal8142 I think you misunderstood my comment. I’m not referring to what is trendy or more common. When it comes down to it, most black folk will NOT say that singers like that can really “SANG”. They might say they have a good voice but there is still a bias towards larger and stronger voices as being technically superior singers solely because of that strength.
I prefer the emotional, primal spiritual voicings similar to West African Griots, Mississippi Delta Blues singers and early Gospel Vocalists. Whitney is a perfect example of someone who straddled both sides, to perfection. Stevie Wonder, Ray Charles, Donnie Hathaway, Freddie Jackson, Charlie Wilson, Kci Hailey and more recently Brandy and Jazmine Sullivan and a few others. Brilliant lessons, very informative 👏🏿 Greetings from Uganda 🇺🇬👊🏿🖤
It’s funny I was having this conversation with one of my friends about this. We were discussing Jennifer Hudson who we both adore and why she couldn’t make it into mainstream pop and RnB. RnB especially has a very unique sounds and dare I say requires a certain tone of voice. Although I think Jennifer Hudson has one of the best voices we’ve had in this generation, there’s something about the smoothness that comes with the RnB tone that makes me feel the love that is being conveyed through the lyrics and how it folds into the instruments and doesn’t over power them but somehow becomes one with them (How Whitney Houston performed for the love of you is a perfect example of this). I prefer a singer that employs the intricacy of the vocal flips and riffs and runs rather than a singer that is going to belt a song from the chest from verse to bridge. I want an artist to show off, show me you know your instrument. What Whitney (and so many others) give is the powerhouse belt but when she flipped to that falsetto! Sheeeeesh! I just find the “RnB tone” more dynamic is what I’m trying to say. Now let me go watch dreamgirls coz you just unfolded the movie here lol. Love your videos.
Jennifer’s voice and style suits either gospel music or Broadway. She doesn’t suit anything else to tell you the truth. She’s not gonna be some sultry R&B singer like Toni Braxton, even though she has tone down her style a little bit, that’s just not works for her naturally.
what a great video! just smth that came to mind.. ariana's yes and remix with mariah, which i personally loved, and was so shocked to find out mariah was criticised for being 'too loud'. like... too loud? 😭 thats that soul baby! it was funny cuz ariana later said she was the one who turned mariah's vocals up. really irks me for people nowadays to be throwing around terms like 'screeching' 'yelling' 'screaming' like baby, know your roots!!
As a jazz vocalist who studied Harmony and worked with a lot of musicians, grew up in the church in gospel music and hymnals, IMO Dynamics is powerful in music. whether it's a vocalist singing or an instrumentalist playing. The silence between notes is where the creativity is. I enjoy hearing music at different Dynamics whether its pianissimo or forte But I really don't enjoy hearing music at fortissimo all the way through. My ears don't enjoy it. I can't take it in. I want to feel the music. Varying the Dynamics is where the sweet spot is and where the feelings come in it's what moves me.
Dope video! This video topic instantly reminds me of some singers from different singing groups who were all labelled as the urban members of their respective groups: Naturi Naughton (formerly of 3LW) Jessica Benson (formerly of 3LW) D.Woods (formerly of Danity Kane) Tiffanie Anderson (formerly of Girlicious) I've seen Naturi receiving criticism about her voice over the years. 3LW's former manager Tse Williams has said her voice is basic and she had too much vibrato. She's also said that Kiely (her sister) couldn't sing yet Kiely sung way more than Naturi did. People also criticized Naturi's replacement, Jessica Benson, saying her voice is basic. Imo, they both had dope, churchy voices that were tonally the complete opposite; Naturi's voice was very maturely powerful while Jessica's was more light & youthful. Naturi and Jessica deserved to sing more and I actually wish they were in the group at the same time cause I think their voices would blend well together as theirs did with Adrienne, respectively. *S/N: I wish Naturi and Jessica were in The Cheetah Girls franchise but that's another story.... D.Woods has been criticized for having a very nasally, throaty, and mature tone. I love D's voice; she could mimic the tone of the other members', on certain octaves, except for Aundrea who's voice was the polar opposite as D's. She's also probably the only group member who could sing any harmony part comfortably. Most of the background vocals on the DK's 1st 2 albums were sung by Dawn & D.Woods; the group has said those 2 stayed in the studio the most. D's absence from the group after their 2nd album is 1 reason why their music from their 3rd album and beyond doesn't sound the same. Tiffanie had the most soulful voice & heavies tone in Girlicious. I'm not as familiar with the group's discography outside their song "Like Me" so idk if Tiffanie got to sing a lot. I do know she was dropped from the group after their 1st album because she was too urban & their manager/label didn't want to go that route moving on smh. @19:06 was a dope transition lol.
I have a 2nd cousin who’s the age of my mom and is also a cousin of Dorothy down here in GA … The world can feel so small as to the degrees of separation
I think I like a mixture of voice. I grew up in the Baptist church. So I love someone hollering for really when the Spirit takes them. I love Whitney. But I also love Aretha and Mary J. and others that might have had instances of raw singing and emotional vocalization that wasn't always the prettiest. I think my concern sometimes with when singers singing "too raw" is I am concerned with their actual vocal health. I am afraid for them. Too much vocal fry and screlting at the top of your voice can legit cause nodules, vocal hemorrhages, polyps, and more. I wonder how many of these gospel ancestors suffered from that. I would be interested to hear them talk about it and how they ministered when they have fatigued their voice in that way. This video was super interesting. Thank you for sharing man.
Thankyou for bringing up Jennifer Hudson. I feel that she hasn't had as much pop success because of the bias people have towards her vocal tone and styling.
Omg I’m glad we’re let talking about this. I can’t stand when an ear that says someone can’t sing just because in reality they just don’t fancy their tone. A darker tone WITH range has always been it.
I love your videos! I would love if you put the names of the singers and speakers on screen more often, so we can learn, and to give credit and prominence to the artists. Right at the beginning: who is that singing when narrator quotes Langston Hughes praising the “simple” style?
So happy you mentioned Lorraine Ellison. One of the first 45's I had as kid in the early 70s was Stay With Me Baby, but I would always play the flip side, I Got My Baby Back.
I wonder if R&B female singers barely sing because it's easier for non-Back people to match? It's harder to replicate Whitney Houston's soul and technique versus Rihannas' technique. I'm just thinking out loud.
Thank you for the insightful video. I love your videos because i always learn something from them not only about the voice but music altogether. These are my thoughts: inasmuch as each style of singing has its own technical delivery in terms of vocals, a singer should be able to do all. There's a thin line between shouting and belting. Belting is controlled whereas shouting isn't. Belting is healthy whereas shouting isn't. I think if a singer trains properly each register it wont be a problem. The first time i heard Jennifer Holliday sing i didnt like it because it sounded too abrasive, its not because she shouts but because she, in my own opinion, uses too much distortion. I think the 3 best singers who had mastered a balanced sound (regardless of genre), for me, are Whitney Houston, Mariah Carey and Lisa Fischer. These singers really knew how to use all registers PROPERLY without being abrasive. I believe these voices could easily fit into any other genre. Including GOSPEL! At the end of it all I dont care what genre you're singing, as long as you sound good to anyone and everyone. It must sound good even to someone who doesn't know anything about music or singing. I believe that's how a singer should be. I don't need to understand Jennifer Holliday's technique to comprehend her voice as "good". I dont know if I'm making sense. Regardless of style, just sound good and use healthy technique that's all. Don't scream or shout or overuse distortion lest you damage your voice.
I don't even have time to watch in full right now but I literally yelled out "YAASSSSSS, FINALLY" when I saw this pop up! It's something I had to get over. There's an antiblackness/misogynoir to it too. Notice how esteemed voices like Janis Joplin's and especially Adele's can be... even some white or whiteR women that actually scream rather than sing.
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It is really interesting how rich masculine tones are pretty much gone from mainstream music.
It could be because brighter/higher sounds garner more attention from people. I'd love to see more singers with rich and deep vocal qualities though.
Yep
I think it's a bit of a generational shift. My dad loves Nat King Cole, but his voice does nothing for me. Give me Stevie Wonder any day. 😂
interesting how its even the case in rap now that you do bring it up
@@lucasribeiro7534Exactly, much of this is generational sensibilities evolve into new kinds of singers and voices. It's inherently about generational preferences, not bias.
Another great video. Tone policing of voice types through marketing and acceptability is something that many great voices have experienced. Great big voices going nowhere because it’s “too raw” “too emotional” and honestly “too black”!
Trying to tell you!!! Get rid of the soul and you have total machine vocals. That auto tune technology changed the whole trajectory of singing as we once knew it😔
I'm going through this now as a singer-songwriter😢
@@TheRetroWoman80AI cannot do raspy... 😮
This is such a good video topic!! Justice for the likes of Patti Labelle who constantly was pissed on for her tone when she’s been killing it since the early 60s!!!!
I think its Pattis musicality that sucks, not the tone so much
@@edwardwheeler197very few people ever talk about that let’s be real
@@edwardwheeler197you definitely have a point here. Her technique has always been impeccable but the musicality is definitely an acquired taste. Funny enough though, that’s the most difficult thing to master.
Let's not forget that she is almost eighty rn, and she still has probably the biggest voices in the industry
My goodness, I clapped when you called out the racial bias. People called me crazy af when I told people the connection. I thought it was obvious and these younger Black Ppl are starting to get on my nerves calling everything hollering, and then wonder why they’re so disconnected from Black Culture so much.
Black culture is black culture no matter the generation.
Why does everyone have to force a view of what black culture is?
I think he was calling out the racial bias of Italians whom the French and Germans said were screaming when they sang; though, I don't know if it had anything to do with them being Italians, since I see no evidence of that, but I digress... So this alleged racism has nothing to do with black people; it's European on European bickering.
@@rachybaby72 yes! also important to remember that back then, Italians weren't considered "white" in the same way they are today.
@bloodofjhezos Oh, for goodness sake... 🙄
I'm a fan when singers yell like Michael Jackson. It's so intriguing and raw, and scratches an itch in my brain. Like makes a singer want to be aggressive and holler like that? It's real electrifying and commanding.
Dreamgirls is the embodiment of this in a movie/play. Thank you for letting me know that I am not crazy. I've have said that we have all these beautiful, perfect, technical and controlled modern voices that evoke next to nothing. People with styles that have imperfections and visceral emotions are not well tolerated. Music is now overly commodified and no longer a spiritual experience that connects humans. Good or bad, only time will tell... People like to act as though history doesn't impact the present. Historical events shape culture. Racism, colonialisation and slavery were a big part of history that impacted everything - EVERYTHING! You all just have to accept what is and understand how it shaped the world as we know it. Excellent work Sir!
Florence Ballard overlooked in favor of Diana Ross.
They invoke quite a lot out of me in DreamGirls.
As a whole, our Alto sisters don't get enough love IMO. I sing saprano in my choir. Generally, in our music arrangement, we sing the melody so our parts are usually easier to learn by comparison. So the altos are not only underappreciated, but have to learn the harder harmonies as well. Personally, i love the dark richness of a lower voice.
Thank you for saying that. I was often relegated to the alto parts even though my range extended into soprano. But had to sing alto because I could sing Harmony.
Sad that Patti LaBelle wasn’t mentioned when they’ve said that all she does is Scream. But I am mesmerized by her gift.
Agreed
If all Patti did was scream, she wouldn't be able to sing at 80 like she has. And it's interesting how Patti's voice seems more preserved than Mariah's.
But that was the main reason she wasn’t able to crossover. She only appeals to a certain crowd
the difference is patty can hold specific notes that would consider you a singer. she is not someone who just screams and shouts.
@@bernardomaximus7516Mariah has had nodules for her whole career (essentially a damaged voice) and Patti never got those. Please don’t compare ❤
I love robust voices. It hits differently especially when expressing pain
I enjoy the vocal tonality of Aretha Franklin, Whitney Houston and even Natalie Cole. These three are powerhouses along with Ledisi, Fantasia and Amber Riley. Also this is a fabulous video.
Whitney and Natalie’s duets where they are just tearing it up catching the spirit… are so much fun to watch… Ahhh like “Say A Little Prayer”
I would like to say thank you so much for this because I feel like this contributes to where we are today in music with the “the girls don’t sing anymore” rhetoric. Like they would shade a Jennifer Hudson, Patti LaBelle, Fantasia etc. but within the same breath ask where are the “SANGERS”. Baby they’re hiding because they don’t want to be ridiculed for something they can’t even control because tone is not something you can just fix 😒 but then praise my girl Whitney not understanding it wouldn’t be no her without the hard, tough, raspy singers!!! Now what’s even crazier is that I’ve been seeing, hear and there, ppl shading Whitney saying she was doing to much or not that great…. It’s getting weird out here I swear!!!!
Le’Andria Johnson has one of the most powerful voices and testimonies out there. As far as ‘sangers’ go, she can sang 🎉
@@teremertz Le’Andria is on my Mount Rushmore of vocalists 😭
This made me emotional because of my own bias towards my own voice and the agility I wish I had. Even though growing up I grew up listening to my mother (who is the best female tenor I know) and aunts sing and only a handful of them had soft silky high tones. Listening to the Clark sisters, and Kim Burrell, and then Brandy and usher, or Stevie wonder, or more recently Kenyon Dixon, or Alex Isley. I think culture swayed us to think lighter voices are “better” singers.
No not better singers. Different.
Those who cash hear can tell without the 'influence'.
I definitely struggled with this most of my life.. so much so I stopped singing and recording for a long time
@@MrBreezyTV hopefully you’re back at it. What I’m learning that’s helped with my insecurities is to just keep singing. If I crack, if I mess up and remember the more I work that muscle the better I’ll be
Black women in general have been getting pushed out of the mainstream music scene for a while. In preference for mixed raced and non black women with light sweet voices and tones. A racially ambiguous voice is what people prefer. Nothing that sounds “too black”. They’ll often lack power with heavy emphasis on runs and vocal acrobatics. Sometimes I’m just thinking ok can these people actually sing or are they just good at runs. We overdo the celebration of runs. Some of them use that to just to mask their lackluster voices
Your could literally chsnge this comment and praise the ones who can sing agile as the actual singers, while the big voiced ones as the ones who can't. They are just different voices with different strenghts. That"s why opera developed a classification system that showcases the strenghs of each type of voice. And in opera everyone developed a big rich hoice and learned how to be agile. (Nowadays opera singers are just terrible though).
@@Ignasimp opera singers nowadays are horrendous
Anyone doing crazy runs is reallllly not someone whose voice I would call “lackluster”. Everyone is different and everyone has things they’re better at, and some singers are better at melisma than with belting. Brandy, for example. She’s literally called the Vocal Bible, but by your definition, she can’t sing. Jennifer Hudson isn’t super agile, but she can blow with her crazy resonance and range. And we have singers that are great at both like Beyoncé, Mariah, Kelly Clarkson, Tori Kelly, I can go on
Oooh I keep finding out more about Langston Hughes that makes me side eye him each time. He had a lot of respectability politics that steered his perspective.
Gospel music calls for a ferocious sound because the genre itself came out of pain and testimony. And Gospel music is from Black Americans. There really is tonality bias and I hadn’t known this before until his Brandy upload.
I love the deep, rich, heavier, grounded sounding voices! It’s actually becoming very rare overtime.
Langston was a MESSY Misogynist 💯 TBH I'm not surprised someone *struggling with their queer identity and proclivities would have the gaul to judge others ! Just because someone is astute or brilliant in one area doesn't absolve them from human frailties 🌚✨
Too many older Black Artist were drowning in respectability politics, mostly the men, and it makes me side eye them extremely.
@@100_Percent_PURE_LUVWait he was a DL?💀😭
@@bmwjourdandunngoddess6024 ALOT of our early Black Male scholars, educators, pundits , socialites, personalities, entrepreneurs, and entertainer's.... the true renaissance men so to speak where Very Much Queer . I just find it both astonishing and sad that many of these men kept their figurative foot on the necks of their black female counterparts !
@@100_Percent_PURE_LUV
Yep! He had an issue with Zora Neale Hurston and her honoring of Black American Vernacular English in her writing and now, I’m finding out about his disdain for Black women who sang with the Gospel sound.
There for sure can be intersectionality with being LGBTQ and being misogynistic.
When I was back in high school choosing my solo song and leaning towards Patti LaBelle who I grew up listening to, I never forget how my (very white) vocal teacher chastised her tone. I was later singled out over my "steely" tone by another arts teacher who made me self-conscious and pressured me not to sing around her.
As someone without a "pretty" tone, I appreciate you and this video and breakdown
I have a wide range of singing styles I happen to enjoy. I've heard many people express negative criticism of voices that range from Patti, Aretha, Whitney, Minnie and Mariah to Gladys, Phillis, Anita and Toni. When I hear this my reply is "there is a reason this is called soul music". When these artists do what they do it comes from a place deep within called the soul. Great video!
I have always been stunned how one singer can be loved by some and hated by others.
I had a good friend who thought young Whitney Houston could not sing. I was shocked!!!
This was such a great video! I didn't realize how racism shaped even the way voices are perceived. I have long lamented the absence of powerful singers in the past 15 years and I think this definitely has something to do with it.
A related video idea that I think would be interesting is the concept of "oversinging." Many singers I enjoy (young Beyoncé, Avery Wilson, and most gospel singers), are accused of doing to much in terms of vocal riffs and runs, and i often wonder if there is a true threshold for vocal acrobatics or is it another matter of "preference."
Beyoncé’s “oversinging” has me up all night doing it too. So catchy 😂❤️
I blame Brandy for that. She has ushered in the singers who like to rift and run every line and it is super annoying.
I have always thought that Deep, Darker voices on women were so beautiful and sexy.
Anita Baker (The best among them Imo…) Lisa Fischer (Although her upper register can be very bright), Teyana Taylor, Carmit Bachar, T-Boz, Kandi Burruss, Etta James, Gladys Knight, Tina Turner, etc. I just think there’s something so special about Deeper voices. They’re a rarity.
(Sidenote: I also LOVE Mariah Carey’s lower register, and speaking voice. Although her voice can be SO bright and flourish in the mid-higher end of the 5th octave, I have always found how deep her voice can go to be fascinating.)
Thank you for always posting these insightful videos, me and my best friend have had this conversation so often… where not only Darker skinned women, and taller Black women are hyper masculinized by idiots; but, how many women with deep voices we grew up around… I just think it’s such a dumb thing to nitpick? Not everybody is meant to sound the same.
Give me gospel and true powerhouse voices with a rich tone anyyyyy day!!
My theory is that most of today's music is "light" and very "airy" in tone because it's easy to sing along to. Most of today's music is "lite bite music" and produced to fit the tiktok mould.
I don't believe today's music will be looked back on in 50 years with such admiration like we do today with Aretha, Whitney, Patti, and gospel heavyweights. This music and these voices are eternal. 🙏🏻
Nicely put, a lot of today's music is made to relate instead of wow. The melodies are kept small enough for a lay person to be able to sing along to, as opposed to aspire to do. Even in rap Drake is more popular than Kendrick - it's much easier to match Drake's cadence and flow than Kendrick's which would require multiples listens and attempts.
In that way though, a lot of the music is forgettable - in that it doesn't challenge you musically/emotionally/energetically. There's nothing to learn or experience. It's all immediately evident -- and therefore vapid.
Most of trend thing you are referring to has been becoming a thing since the 2000s, not just Tiktok.
The point is not to have a music industry in the next 50 years esp. since certain people are afraid of blacks becoming too influencial in the world, that's why today's pop music is so mediocre. Certainpeople are using mediocre talent where its not about the artform but acquiring fame and a little money.
@@beyourself2444Black People not “blacks”.
@@bmwjourdandunngoddess6024I think Britney popularized the lighter tone in modern pop singers. But I think it's worse nowadays because everyone sounds the same and they use the same "cursive singing" accent that makes words incomprehensible.
Yes! Dinah Jane mentioned in an interview that producers and record labels instructed her to tone down her voice when recording Fifth Harmony songs because her sound was "too soulful".
That shit pissed me off cause she had the most powerful and soulful voice of the group and imo thats what the group lacked 😭
Also, justice for Jennifer Holliday!! She's been downplayed for too long and the fact that she's become so humble and graceful even though she went through so much is inspiring!! She deserves her flowers and praise every time there is a vocal conversation ❤️ Nobody was gonna holler and give drama the way she did on Dreamgirls AND everything else that she put her stamp on. That "His Eye Is On The Sparrow" should be a staple among all singers!!😭
I love deep, gutteral, dark voices for a lot of blues, rock, folk and the like. There are so many layers to songs that are sad, ironic, bittersweet, angry, grief stricken, bargaining, frustrated, haunted, etc that a voice with so many layers adds to the storytelling.
For happier or joyful songs (that arent sung ironically) i think holloring and a lot of gutteral vocal embellishments is impressive but i dont feel moved at all by it and sometimes it feels like it distracts from the lyrics. We probably associate types of voices with what we grew up with and i didn't grow up in a church or listening to people hollering
Its interesting to see and hear something so different to me.
Maybe they don't have the tonal clarity of Mariah or Celine, but they have raw emotion, their sound is harsh but 100% authentic. Whitney had clarity, emotion and power - she had it all.
You lost me when you included Madonna, she's NOT a singer..
@@tonytone5434 Right. Like do they have ears?💀
Umm one of these things is not like the other 😂
Did you mean Mariah or another female singer whose name starts with M?
@@bryanalstoncoxing OMG I meant Mariah, sorry, wow 😳🤯😭
Madonna is a great performer. But she is not a great singer nor does she have tonal clarity in my opinion. In fact she didn't even get official vocal training till almost 3-4 albums into her career. Madonna is known for her high production quality and dancing and maybe even production skills depending on the album but not singing.
Another brilliant think piece! The depth of your insight is unmatched on YT. Thank you BMA! 💙
I love Black Music Archive so much 🖤🖤🖤.
Thank you for watching ❤️
I love all those supposed “ugly “ voices so far they touch my SOUL way more than boringgggg pretty !!
there are racial and gendered components to this convo as well. yt singers are praised for raw sounds that are reminiscent of the traditional black american practice. men are also praised for having raw/unpretty sounds.
This is why I love coko 4rm swv cause she has both light and airy but powerful at the same time !
Yesss!!! That girl can blow!
OMG Coko is so very underrated, imo. One of the top 3 underrated singers EVER!
i love coko’s voice so much. i’ve had swv on repeat lately because of that.
Yesss!
That last sentence of the video was such a mic drop moment! 🙌🏾The world is moving to a place of detachment from the spiritual and emotional more & more. That’s why people who represent this suffer hardship in the industry.
Beyoncé isn’t even as soulful as these wonderful ladies but still gets accused of screaming. When those performances are the most moving and connected spiritually✨
I heard somewhere that to help a content creator with their channel you should watch commercials in full. This is the only channel where I do not ‘skip’. You deserve ALL your coins!! Great video as always 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
You know who would have been an excellent example of the racial tone bias part?😩 Beyoncé and Mariah Carey. They are such excellent examples!
Unfortunately, this guy hates Mariah Carey. He excludes her from his videos, and in the rare times he does mention her, he dismisses her skill.
@@alexbarako3034wow lmao yet he thinks soo highly of himself 😂
@@alexbarako3034This man doesn’t hate anyone, he legitimately has an entire video breaking down mariah voice. He’s just not a super fan
@@alexbarako3034Not true.He’s just unbiased and observant
@@alexbarako3034 What? I've never heard him say he hates Mariah.
It is also worth noting, when singers began recording vocals/songs in the early 20th century, they were forced to sing loudly and sometimes almost yell because of the poor recording technology. I do agree that yelling in Gospel music is intentional. When you feel the spirit, you've got no choice but to go higher or louder.
Stevie Wonder: I've met only three people who had a truly wonderful voice and spirit to match: my first wife Syreeta, Minnie Riperton and Mariah Carey!
Minnie and Mariah yaaaaas
CHANTE PLEASEEEEE STAND UP MY QUEEN!
@@PinkJoy143 she’s laying down
@@CyprusHot 😂😂😂 I can’t stand you 🤣🤣🤣
@@PinkJoy143 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Thank you for mentioning Mary J Blige. I've been trying to convince people for years that she can actually sing. LOL.
The confirmation on that is that Whitney Houston loved her some Mary J. Mary's voice isn't for everyone, and that's ok. That'll be for those who'd appreciate her. I've been loving her voice since "You Remind Me".
Yeah home girl can definitely blow. Honestly a lot of times on social media people only show a few seconds of a performance that happened 20 years ago and then the commenters come to the conclusion “she can’t sing” based on a 10 second video.
Yeah she can sing her ass off.Her real problem tho,is that she be a little flat or too sharp sometimes
Of course she can sing but she’s never been consistent or had popularity on a long term scale
At one point you could tell she had some training because her voice was A1. When they did the just stand up song Mary was the best vocalist amongst the group that had bey and Mariah in it.
It’s like you’re reading my mind when you make these videos. 💕💕
They've literally whitewashed the music industry. I miss the deep, strong toned voices. It needs to be bought back. The 90's embodied great RnB music, with beautiful voices.
I’m sorry but anyone saying Aretha Franklin can’t sing is stupid. Flat out no ifs, ands, or buts
This.
It irks my spirit when people say that, but that’s also because people only know if Aretha past her prime.
@@madmann1000 , That must be the gen z generation... I remember many millenials when they were kids and they would say Aretha is the bomb when her Rose is still a rose cd came out .
I think Aretha Franklin is ICONIC
Man, you always do your due diligence and research. You really break it all the way down. Thank you for this service to the culture.
I love how this video points out the anti-Blackness in the use of terms like "light", "aggressive", "pleasant", etc. and several commentators are still using those terms. The point of this video went right over their head. Like what you like, but you should always question and understand the root of those likes and preferences. Thank you for this amazing video.
Thoroughly enjoyed this video. Dorothy Love Coates one of my favorites. My mother played her songs every Saturday morning while cleaning .❤❤❤❤
As someone who loves soul, blues and rock music, this is something i miss in a lot of modern mainstream singers.
This was as usual, a great breakdown of the why of Black American Gospel voices. There is some particular racial bias concerning using the chest voice and it’s various effects in music journals of the late 1800s and early 1900s. But, as another commenter said, there is a place for every type of voice. I just wish there was more places for this type of voice as there was.
Growing up on Whitney Houston, I just prefer the clearer and softer tone. I personally can’t get with the more guttural, shouty timbre. There were some exceptions like Tina Turner and Janis Joplin, but I wouldn’t take away from their talent or ability.
wow, when I hear people sing like this I'm completely floored and can't get enough of it! I never knew this type of bias existed....but I'm not surprised by much anymore. People like me can only dream of being able to decently sing at karaoke, let alone belt out a beautiful Gospel song! I just would never think to call them "ugly voices", they sound incredible to my ear.
This is why I'll always love Whitney Houston bc she had both of both worlds. She had the gospel tinge and power but her tone was gorgeous and not shouty and aggressive.
I hate the screaming and screeching in gospel music
She didn’t squall much - hating squalling isn’t the same as hating TONE. I’ve never heard anyone squall with a pretty light tone
@@maloneaqua what's wrong with hating Tone? I hate alot of people's tone and if I started naming them people would try to crucify me in here.
But I absolutely hate a lot of singers tone so what's wrong with that?
She never did more than she had to and simply had beautiful resonance and knew that was enough.
Yes she could do runs but her sustained tones are so beautiful and signature. Such a well rounded singer ❤
I chuckled out loud at the metaphor, "cigarettes and White Diamonds" 🤭
I guess I prefer tone more than screaming.
But I also think some screaming are more pleasant than other. Like I love Aretha’s and Vanessa Bell’s but not JHud’s or Patti screaming.
I've learned to appreciate all of the different styles of singing and qualities in voices. As a person who can't sing, the first thing I try to focus on, is listening very carefully to the mood that the singer expresses. When I hear a "soothing" voice, it creates calm (or romance). An aggressive voice (squalls, growls) make me feel energy and excitement. BMA has taught me so much since the beginning. Thank you for teaching me.
My third comment 😅 lol.. it’s so funny bc one of my all time favorite male singers is Dino from H-town. I remember ppl made a vine mocking him screaming on the intro of Knockin Da Boots 😂 I’ve never heard a voice like his since (Rest his soul 🙏🏽) but it’s singers like him who make music so special. I’m forever grateful for the “screamers” I’ve gotten to hear in my time here in this earth. 🥰❤️
Love this series and channel. I think the narrator hits the nail on the head when discussing today’s vocal preferences. Consumers want to hear a more polished, vocally agile voice in today’s music, leaving little room for some of those deep and raspy tones I grew up hearing on the radio and in church. I’d also argue that consumers are more into prioritizing the lyrical content of music over the actual vocal delivery of the song.
You can have a deep voice and it can still be polished and bright.
Precious precious so precious video. Thank you. This is very important . And you knew how to show it !
seeing people commenting on today’s singer’ voices and how they are “bad”, i feel like people in a few decades are going to be critisizing singers of their period and how the airy singers of todays time were better. i think hating generations is something that has always happened and is probably going to happen as people like to think their time was better. i personally like both growly and airy voices, they each have their charm and what i prefer depends on what i am in the mood for
Exactly my comment. All voices should be at the very least appreciated
TYSM for mentioning my sweet Izora and Loleatta! Their stars have lit my path at times unsure. Their voices searing the night with exclamations of intensity that seemed to parallel my journey carried me through. I don't know where I would be or who I would be if they didn't prove that living is indeed something to shout about!
I love the descriptions of the different singers' voices!!!❤
I was recovering from a bad anxiety attack but watching this video right now i feel like my old self again tyyy
I’ve always preferred masculine tones in females and feminine tones in males
Interesting
Thank you for this video! I'm so glad to see some of my most favorite singers here, like Cissy Houston, Dorothy Love Coates and Dorothy Norwood.
I love deep dark voices. They are exceptional when it comes to expressing emotions. The duende! Think the likes of Phyllis Hyman, Anita Baker, Mahalia Jackson, etc!❤
Another incredible video 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
I love that I, as a vocalist, can relate to so much of this.
Amazing work as always ♥️
Not even half way into the video and i am already floored by the legendariness of what i'm hearing and who I'm seeing for the first time!!! Thank you so much for this valuable document of these incredible black women🌟🌟
I'm so grateful for this study! Wow!
My problem with Sissy is that there's seems to be an abyss between her chest and head voices. Not only that, but she didn't know how to dosage her use of head voice as seasoning for her chest voice, as Whitney became a master of doing. In other words, I don't think Sissy had much of a sense of musical esthetics, especially when trying to transition to pop. I also have to say that saying that Whitney was not better than her mother is unfair to say the least. It's like comparing an okay singer to one of greatest who ever lived. Having all that, I have to thank you profusely for such a great channel and all the precious teachings you've been bringing here! Oh, and that you look really hot!
Still, comparing Cissy to Whitney strengthens the point that she's being judged through the lens of Whitney and not as an individual singer and artist. They do many of the same things, but by and large, they don't use their voices the same way. If they did, there would be no reason for a Whitney Houston.
And thank you lol
I adore this channel! 🥹🔥🙌🏾❤️🙏🏾
Amazing reporting.... Shocking that I have not noticed this previously!!
This reminds me of the previous video you did, Whitney Houston Viewer Talkback where there was a debate of who’s the best singer in the family: Whitney, Dionne, Cissy or Leontyne. And although you argued Dionne has the best vocal technique which makes her the best singer among the four, Whitney has the best tone quality which made her the most palatable and marketable to the masses.
Dionne was also palatable and marketable to masses! Remember Dionne was the first black woman popstar. Because Dionne did, Whitney could.
Mariah is top tier example of beautiful and pleasant tone
I love me some Mimi
Other commenters said he thinks Mariah has no skill lmao
@@strangerthings88where are they getting that from? His first video on this channel was about Mariah Carey’s voice
@@ceasemortal4318 that’s what I thought too then I wondered if I hallucinated it lmao
I love Mariah but I find her tone exhausting to listen to. No shade, just my opinion.
There is also the inverse which wasn't spoken which is voices that are a bit smaller and not as strong or heavy as some listed here within black spaces. Often those types of voices are not considered as soulful or being able to really SANG unless their voice can do and or sustain the more rough sort of vocal production. Its often another form of bias and sometimes even internalized racism because what is soulful or what is black is NOT restricted to one form of voice or expression. There really should be room for everyone, their voices, and how they choose to express, but its sad what types of hurdles people have to face not just only because of how they look but also how they sound, which somehow hits differently because it literally comes from a more internal place.
Actually, I feel like i hear a lot of softer, breathier voices nowadays more in many genres. I only hear the more stronger voices with gospel singers.
@@bajangal8142 I think you misunderstood my comment. I’m not referring to what is trendy or more common. When it comes down to it, most black folk will NOT say that singers like that can really “SANG”. They might say they have a good voice but there is still a bias towards larger and stronger voices as being technically superior singers solely because of that strength.
@@airi75089 thank you for that most people think singers with small voices are not good singers
This is some soul satisfying content 🙌🏾
Absolutely WONDERFUL channel.!
I prefer the emotional, primal spiritual voicings similar to West African Griots, Mississippi Delta Blues singers and early Gospel Vocalists.
Whitney is a perfect example of someone who straddled both sides, to perfection. Stevie Wonder, Ray Charles, Donnie Hathaway, Freddie Jackson, Charlie Wilson, Kci Hailey and more recently Brandy and Jazmine Sullivan and a few others.
Brilliant lessons, very informative 👏🏿
Greetings from Uganda 🇺🇬👊🏿🖤
Some of those names shouldn’t be there….
@@bmwjourdandunngoddess6024 why?
Regardless, I love Ella Fitzgerald's voice/singing style.
It’s funny I was having this conversation with one of my friends about this. We were discussing Jennifer Hudson who we both adore and why she couldn’t make it into mainstream pop and RnB. RnB especially has a very unique sounds and dare I say requires a certain tone of voice. Although I think Jennifer Hudson has one of the best voices we’ve had in this generation, there’s something about the smoothness that comes with the RnB tone that makes me feel the love that is being conveyed through the lyrics and how it folds into the instruments and doesn’t over power them but somehow becomes one with them (How Whitney Houston performed for the love of you is a perfect example of this). I prefer a singer that employs the intricacy of the vocal flips and riffs and runs rather than a singer that is going to belt a song from the chest from verse to bridge. I want an artist to show off, show me you know your instrument. What Whitney (and so many others) give is the powerhouse belt but when she flipped to that falsetto! Sheeeeesh! I just find the “RnB tone” more dynamic is what I’m trying to say. Now let me go watch dreamgirls coz you just unfolded the movie here lol. Love your videos.
Jennifer’s voice and style suits either gospel music or Broadway. She doesn’t suit anything else to tell you the truth. She’s not gonna be some sultry R&B singer like Toni Braxton, even though she has tone down her style a little bit, that’s just not works for her naturally.
Omg was talking to someone about this topic. It’s so niche! Thank you for this!
Beautiful, beautiful... bring back those wonderful days Lord... Music glorious music masculine, feminine hard and sweet... love it all!!!....
what a great video! just smth that came to mind.. ariana's yes and remix with mariah, which i personally loved, and was so shocked to find out mariah was criticised for being 'too loud'. like... too loud? 😭 thats that soul baby! it was funny cuz ariana later said she was the one who turned mariah's vocals up. really irks me for people nowadays to be throwing around terms like 'screeching' 'yelling' 'screaming' like baby, know your roots!!
Right, that bothered me too. Song was better with Mariah on it
Another great video thank you🙏🏽 no one on TH-cam does a vocal analysis better than you
As a jazz vocalist who studied Harmony and worked with a lot of musicians, grew up in the church in gospel music and hymnals, IMO
Dynamics is powerful in music. whether it's a vocalist singing or an instrumentalist playing. The silence between notes is where the creativity is.
I enjoy hearing music at different Dynamics whether its pianissimo or forte
But I really don't enjoy hearing music at fortissimo all the way through. My ears don't enjoy it. I can't take it in. I want to feel the music.
Varying the Dynamics is where the sweet spot is and where the feelings come in it's what moves me.
I love your videos... As a singer, I learn so much. Thank you.
Dope video! This video topic instantly reminds me of some singers from different singing groups who were all labelled as the urban members of their respective groups:
Naturi Naughton (formerly of 3LW)
Jessica Benson (formerly of 3LW)
D.Woods (formerly of Danity Kane)
Tiffanie Anderson (formerly of Girlicious)
I've seen Naturi receiving criticism about her voice over the years. 3LW's former manager Tse Williams has said her voice is basic and she had too much vibrato. She's also said that Kiely (her sister) couldn't sing yet Kiely sung way more than Naturi did. People also criticized Naturi's replacement, Jessica Benson, saying her voice is basic. Imo, they both had dope, churchy voices that were tonally the complete opposite; Naturi's voice was very maturely powerful while Jessica's was more light & youthful. Naturi and Jessica deserved to sing more and I actually wish they were in the group at the same time cause I think their voices would blend well together as theirs did with Adrienne, respectively.
*S/N: I wish Naturi and Jessica were in The Cheetah Girls franchise but that's another story....
D.Woods has been criticized for having a very nasally, throaty, and mature tone. I love D's voice; she could mimic the tone of the other members', on certain octaves, except for Aundrea who's voice was the polar opposite as D's. She's also probably the only group member who could sing any harmony part comfortably. Most of the background vocals on the DK's 1st 2 albums were sung by Dawn & D.Woods; the group has said those 2 stayed in the studio the most. D's absence from the group after their 2nd album is 1 reason why their music from their 3rd album and beyond doesn't sound the same.
Tiffanie had the most soulful voice & heavies tone in Girlicious. I'm not as familiar with the group's discography outside their song "Like Me" so idk if Tiffanie got to sing a lot. I do know she was dropped from the group after their 1st album because she was too urban & their manager/label didn't want to go that route moving on smh.
@19:06 was a dope transition lol.
I have a 2nd cousin who’s the age of my mom and is also a cousin of Dorothy down here in GA … The world can feel so small as to the degrees of separation
It really is a small world! My mama worked with Ms. Norwood's niece for many years. We've known the family for decades!
Can we get an explained episode on male group voices? Like the Temptation and silk?
This is a great video as I’m a artist with a soulful voice and battling with it
This video was so interesting. Great work!
This video is amazing. Thank you.
Another excellent piece! Thanks Malik!
I think I like a mixture of voice. I grew up in the Baptist church. So I love someone hollering for really when the Spirit takes them. I love Whitney. But I also love Aretha and Mary J. and others that might have had instances of raw singing and emotional vocalization that wasn't always the prettiest. I think my concern sometimes with when singers singing "too raw" is I am concerned with their actual vocal health. I am afraid for them. Too much vocal fry and screlting at the top of your voice can legit cause nodules, vocal hemorrhages, polyps, and more. I wonder how many of these gospel ancestors suffered from that. I would be interested to hear them talk about it and how they ministered when they have fatigued their voice in that way. This video was super interesting. Thank you for sharing man.
Great points. And the aggressive sound isn't always required to express. Singing with clear tone can also be expressive.
Yes! What a great topic!!! ❤
This is amazing and SO necessary!
Thankyou for bringing up Jennifer Hudson. I feel that she hasn't had as much pop success because of the bias people have towards her vocal tone and styling.
Omg I’m glad we’re let talking about this. I can’t stand when an ear that says someone can’t sing just because in reality they just don’t fancy their tone. A darker tone WITH range has always been it.
I love your videos! I would love if you put the names of the singers and speakers on screen more often, so we can learn, and to give credit and prominence to the artists. Right at the beginning: who is that singing when narrator quotes Langston Hughes praising the “simple” style?
So happy you mentioned Lorraine Ellison. One of the first 45's I had as kid in the early 70s was Stay With Me Baby, but I would always play the flip side, I Got My Baby Back.
I'll take spiritual and emotional expression in a singer any day and twice on Sundays. I wanna feel! Move me!!
I wonder if R&B female singers barely sing because it's easier for non-Back people to match? It's harder to replicate Whitney Houston's soul and technique versus Rihannas' technique. I'm just thinking out loud.
Thank you for the insightful video. I love your videos because i always learn something from them not only about the voice but music altogether.
These are my thoughts: inasmuch as each style of singing has its own technical delivery in terms of vocals, a singer should be able to do all.
There's a thin line between shouting and belting. Belting is controlled whereas shouting isn't. Belting is healthy whereas shouting isn't.
I think if a singer trains properly each register it wont be a problem. The first time i heard Jennifer Holliday sing i didnt like it because it sounded too abrasive, its not because she shouts but because she, in my own opinion, uses too much distortion. I think the 3 best singers who had mastered a balanced sound (regardless of genre), for me, are Whitney Houston, Mariah Carey and Lisa Fischer. These singers really knew how to use all registers PROPERLY without being abrasive. I believe these voices could easily fit into any other genre. Including GOSPEL!
At the end of it all I dont care what genre you're singing, as long as you sound good to anyone and everyone. It must sound good even to someone who doesn't know anything about music or singing. I believe that's how a singer should be.
I don't need to understand Jennifer Holliday's technique to comprehend her voice as "good". I dont know if I'm making sense.
Regardless of style, just sound good and use healthy technique that's all.
Don't scream or shout or overuse distortion lest you damage your voice.
I would love all vocal types and sounds to be appreciated
My family has known Ms. Dorothy Norwood and her family for many years‼️ Dorothy is very often imitated, but she has never been duplicated💝
How important was tone in the career and reception of Phyllis Hyman? I wonder.
I don't even have time to watch in full right now but I literally yelled out "YAASSSSSS, FINALLY" when I saw this pop up! It's something I had to get over.
There's an antiblackness/misogynoir to it too. Notice how esteemed voices like Janis Joplin's and especially Adele's can be... even some white or whiteR women that actually scream rather than sing.
Janis Joplin really just be SCREAMING. I can’t take it. 😭
@@bmwjourdandunngoddess6024she did have the capacity to actually sing, but people saw as a rock singer and not soul singer