A motorcoach driver can only drove so much by law. Ever wonder how much that is? Find out what the most a bus driver can drive before it becomes illegal
Every bus trip I've been on, the driver stayed at a different hotel to completely prevent the scenario you describe of passengers disturbing the rest period. Makes a lot of sense.
I audit logs constantly for my company, when drivers misuse personal conveyance (intentional or in-intentional), it is a really big deal. Fines will be issued. Groups will ask drivers all the time to use it to the group's benefit. When I started out driving, I had a band director that I dropped off at the hotel around midnight, I told him that I won't be back until 9:30am at the earliest. He flipped out and said we are leaving at 6am. I said "you go ahead and leave at 6am, but not with this bus". His school transportation director personally called me and apologized for his misbehavior.
That happened to me often when I drove. Example, school group to DC with 6 buses. Drove from the pickup near Buffalo to several points in DC. Our hotel was near Dulles Airport. She wanted to get more done that evening and I told her we were running close to our ten hours driving. Since they had reservations for the Newseum early the next morning, I said we either skip out now and head to the hotel, or you cancel the newseum. But it won’t work doing both. She got all pissed off but we headed to the hotel. By the time we drove there, unloaded then parked a quarter mile away, we each had maybe 10 driving minutes left. She then complained, in writing, to our company owner that we did what we did because I just wanted to be done early, we were all lazy, we aren’t accommodating to them, blah blah blah. Well lady, we did what we did cuz that’s the law and the elogs track everything. It would be no skin off her ass but a lot off of ours.
Thats one of my favorite comments to receive. "Oh my gosh, I wish I could do as little work as you do AND be over paid!" Thats probably why commercial driving has such low turn over ;-)
I loved it when non-tipping groups (kids, sports teams,…) would ask for something that would threaten legality like they were due white glove service. There’s a mom in Iowa somewhere who’s still probably pissed at me for not making a 50 minute round trip across suburban Indianapolis to retrieve their kid’s pillow left at the hotel 😂. I never had any late-night interruptions, fortunately, but I would set the boundaries as you mentioned. I got a lot of good advice on that from the experienced drivers I worked with when I was new.
As a truck driver, I absolutely hated the e-logs. They made me more tired because I no longer had control over when I was tired or alert, the government decided that for me. I don't know how the e-logs have hurt or helped the motorcoach industry. I would like to get your opinion on that issue.
I had a time when my bus was towed and the elog processed it as "drive time." It couldn't be changed. Rest wise nothing really changed... I'm in charter so we go when told to....
In Europe we have tachographs, these record the drivers activity. In the case of a vehicle being towed the driver's card is removed so the vehicle movement isn't attributed to the driver. The drivers tachograph card is credit card sized and stores information on the drivers activities for 28 days.
I've been driving a motorcoach for 15 years and I have not had any negative issue with the ELD and fatigue, compared to paper logs. Part of it is being fortunate to work for ethical carriers that paid me fairly and respected when I said I was tired. They also helped establish boundaries with the chartering groups before dispatching the trip. I found in my case ELDs gave me 1 to 2 hours more availability over the course for an 8 day period, and up to an hour more in a day. This is a result of the higher precision of time keeping, where paper logs we rounded to the nearest 15 minutes. In trucking, I don't believe that the ELD is the biggest problem. Trucking's issue is that to prevent the "endless day", your 14 hour duty clock runs until you take 10 consecutive hours off duty. As a motorcoach operator, if I go off duty, all clocks stop. I do not get 8 consecutive hours off to reset, then I have whatever balance left on my clocks to utilize until I take 8 consecutive hours off duty. In trucking that less than 10 hour break only saves time on your 60/70 hours, but you still need to be off the road 14 hours after starting your day. That inflexibility is the real HOS problem in trucking, not the ELD.
As a new Motor Coach Operating who recently completed my training, I appreciate your over overview as it helped me better understand!!!! Me personally, I hope I NEVER have to use a paper log!!!
I love the HoS rules in Canada. Both trucks and buses have 13hrs drive time, 14hrs On Duty time, with a 2 hour break(in minimum 30min breaks) the onduty time can be stretched over a 16 hour window. I start work at 5am, drive London to Toronto, back at 1130am. Off till 1345 to return for the second rounder finishing at 8pm in London. Im on the clock 5am til 9pm, only working 13.5max all on ELD.my current schedule has me 41hours in 3 days(5 trips) off for 36hrs for a reset. Then back out for 5 trips. I get 19 trips in two weeks(38 individual runs). I may be the most frequent operator in and out of Union Station Bus Terminal(aside from the GO transit operators).
I was told that the typical on duty time would be approximately 14 hours along with 10 hours of uninterrupted off-duty time. Then again, not all companies use that rule of thumb for their drivers, whether it be for motor coach operators, school buses, or straight truck (box truck) drivers. The 15/9 seems to be pushing the limits a little, but again, not all companies follow any set block of rules. As long as they can properly monitor a driver's hours and adhere to the FMCSA regulations, there should be no issues come Roadside Inspection time. What people don't realize is this; as a professional driver, we cannot drive longer than 8 hours WITHOUT taking the mandatory 30 minute rest break. Most times, people get upset when a bus driver takes their 30 minute break in the middle of a trip (look at the horror stories coming from Greyhound customers), and a lot of times, those 30 minute breaks are set within the route schedule. Thank you for taking the time to explain the laws to the general public, James. Be safe out on the roads, and enjoy the time behind the wheel. :)
Very good advice about HOS on a motor coach. I have been a semi truck driver for about 20 years, but I just got my passenger endorsement added to my class A and will be starting a new adventure driving coach and getting used to my new HOS. Great video and look forward to serving your next video.
This is a great informational video for those who charter buses for trips. A charter bus company would do well to show to all clients when they hire a bus. As a truck driver, I hated paper logs, when I got bus endorsements on my license and worked part time for a charter bus company. I had a second part time job. The safety manager with the bus company required me to submit a paper log weekly showing my other job. And due to the time of my commute from home to bus yard, I was once put up in a nearby motel to be in compliance with off duty hours.
As a former truck driver I hated paper logs also. I've gotten several log violations not because I was trying to cheat the system, rather because I simply hated doing them or any other paper work. When e-logs came along I embraced it heartily as it simplified my job.
@@williamjones4483 I agreed the elogs or ELD's are great. My only experience with the ELD came during my short stint as a charter bus driver. Once I learned how to log into it, it was great. I don't recall which system that company used, but one memorable trip comes to mind. A major requirement with that company was to refuel the bus at the end of a trip, prior to returning it to the yard. A nearby truck stop was my preferred fuel stop. I got to the truck stop with less than ten minutes left on my 10 hour driving time and the ELD was making nasty sounds and sending harsh messages. Once full of fuel it started again for the short trip to the yard. Which entailed stopping the bus at the gate, getting out punching in the gate code, getting back behind the wheel and trough the gate before it closed again without it it hitting the bus. Next chore get the thing parked. When I shut down, I had one minute left on my driving day. And the screen on the ELD was going crazy.
So I just wanted to thank you for your videos they have helped me out so much in learning how to drive a motorcoach. Now I am certified to drive. Can't wait to start a brand new journey in my Bus career.
James, I always thought that the hours of service for bus drivers were the same as truck drivers. I was a truck driver more recently than I was a motorcoach operator. When I retired from trucking, it was 14 hours on duty, 11 hours driving during that 14, followed by 10 hours uninterrupted off duty. Now I work part-time driving a city transit with NO FMCSR....thank you Lord! 😂
Any bus that requires a CDL the driver follows the same hours of service rules that truckers used to follow. That's 10 hours maximum driving with 8 hours off duty or sleeper berth or a combination. Since buses don't have sleepers it's easiest to put the driver up in a hotel for 8 hours off duty.
When I used to teach HoS to new hires, I always told them that logs and hours of service regulations are clear enough that they can be stated in a few short minutes and you will have decades of learning what they actually mean and allow. The trick is learning where in that grey area you are safe and comfortable to operate. I worked with some who were so strict in their adherence that they would never log off duty from the time they reported to work to the time they got in their car to go home, and others who were so flagrant as to joke about logging off duty at stop signs. There were many times that I ran my logbook to the absolute limit and utilizing the HoS differences between the US and Canada to my fullest advantage, but I always did what I gelt was safe and best for the customer and never once did I even get a second look from a DOT officer at an inspection.
Excellent video, as always, James. How many times have I heard: "A Trained Monkey Could Do Your Job". I doubt if those nitwits could pass their monkey training, leave alone their coach operator training! I never found coach driving to be anything but challenging, with a new surprise almost every day. That's why I loved the job. (Oh, and the MCI equipment, of course!). 👍
Another great video, James! Some definite nostalgia there with the logbooks. I remember my dad filling those out, but I only had a vague sense of what they were for. I had my own set of logs, along with other of his forms, and I would do my “reports” like he would, just drawing lines in my logbook! I imagine I was often “out of compliance!” 🤣 Of course as a techno geek, former electrical engineer adult, I think the electronics are fascinating and an obvious platform for logging time. But as I watched, I just imagined my dad gripping incessantly if he had to use “computers” to do his reports! 🤣 As I have commented before, I imagine he would be amazed - and maybe appalled - at how buses have changed! I look forward to your announcement!
My biggest challenge with the 70/8 rule was driving a new coach from ABC in Florida to Seattle and avoiding a reset. My Garmin produced a time efficient route that got me to Seattle in under 70 hrs and withing the speed limits.
Hey James! I've been watching your channel for a while! I gotta say that it's really different from being a Citybus driver like i am. Over here i just have to drive my schedule and go home. Ofcourse i have to check the bus for faults before leaving the garage to pick up the first passengers. It really increased my respect for Motorcoach Drivers like you. Here in Europe we have different rules and regulations for the Motorcoach (or as we refer to as Touringcar/Tourbus). For example we have to drive for 4.5 hours and after that we have to take a mandatory break of at least 45 minutes. I'm sorry if my English is a bit all over the place, it's not my first language so please don't be harsh. Anyways i wanted to tell you that i love the channel and that i really respect you and your company! Kind regards, Brandon Dammers (a fellow busnut).
Thank you so much for the kind words. I've been a city transit operator before. And certain ways I kind of miss it. My favorite thing about it was the rhythm. Once you get into a groove driving those streets it's like a good workout almost lol. Sorry if that sounds kind of strange haha.
@@MotorcoachWorld I see where you’re coming from! I drive articulated buses as well, now that sometimes can be a whole steering workout just for a tight corner😂. Thanks for replying!
I've seen other channels where drivers (primarily truck drivers) say "I don't like having to log my time, it keeps me from doing my job...which is driving." That doesn't sound like they're focused on safety.
Interesting. By the time the driver checkins into the hotel, showers, and eats. He or She will have about 5-6 hours of sleep. Doesn't seem very safe to me
Hi James. When I was driving CMV's the pre and post trip was only 15 minutes for each. What I could never understand is why the HOS back then was different for trucks and buses. 10 hours for coach and 11 hours for trucks. Years ago I had a steady run from DC to Atlantic City 3 days a week. When I got to AC and dropped of the passengers I had to go to a prescribed parking lot. There was a driver lounge and rooms to sleep in for a cost. My people got 6 hours play time and had to be ready to go when I got there. These runs made it tight as far as hours go. What would happen on the return run I would hit dispatch on the good old Nextel to let him know to send a relief bus to finish my trip. We had a pre designated location. After the tranfer my terminal was less than 10 minutes away. On an occasion or 2 they had no one to cover the trip and i had to continue on in to DC and then back to the terminal. Back then I knew nothing about PC and this was also pre ELD.
Found your channel recently. Really enjoying the content and learning a ton!!! I drove transit busses and MCI D-series Motorcoaches back in the late-1990's. Kept my CDL active all these years. Trying to get back into it. Just applied at two different companies near me in Ohio. I have a question about HOS... I have also applied for a couple Class-B trucking jobs, too. I know that freight drivers use an 11-hour drive clock within a 14 hour duty clock, rather than the passenger-carrying clocks of 10 & 15 hours. My question is regarding the 70-hour/8-day clock... For freight drivers, the 70 hour clock can be completely reset by the driver taking a "34-hour restart" (34 continuous hours off-duty). As I was studying this in the FMCSR's, I did not see in the regulation anywhere about a 34-hour break resetting the 70 hour clock for a bus/coach driver. Is the "34-hour" restart not a "thing" to get a fresh clock for bus/coach operators, like it is for truck drivers?
I once had a "debate" with a former supervisor who claimed that you could go "off duty not driving" during the day with a multi stop itinerary in an 8 hour period. My contention was that your status should really be "on duty not driving" since you could reasonably be expected to depart a given location early due to road or weather conditions, customers needing to use the lavoratory, answer a call from the tour guide, etc." Is there a right answer?
Early versions of Samsara put drivers into On Duty Not Driving when the E brake was applied. Drivers started using the E brake at red lights and in heavy traffic when stops were prolonged. Each time the E brake was pulled, drivers got a few more minutes of Driving time and didn't believe they could be faulted.
In New Zealand drivers can be on the road for 13 hours. This means a whole journey half way across the country from major cities can be achieved without breaking for a half day.
Played tourist in Paris, went to the Eiffel tower, tour operator told us that bus driver must leave at x time to allow for working/driving hours, 40 passengers, I was the only one on time. Tour company paid allot of taxi drivers to move people that night.
I’ve told groups that I need at least 9 hours from when I drop off but prefer 10 so that I stay rested and safe. They usually don’t argue cause they are riding with me and need me to be alert and focused. It cracks me up how many folks ask how I slept and if I got enough rest. But it helps that our office and dispatch staff make sure we have enough down time between runs
I’d done the same when I drove. You could fudge the paper logs a little here and there, but not the elogs. People thought that when THEY get off the bus, the 8 hours off started then. No no no…. I still have to park it, and that can be a shitshow at some hotels. Then do the post trips. Then clean the bus from all the kiddies and/or adults trash and their on board food snacks. Maybe mop it, etc. Close out the slog from on duty not driving to off duty. Then get my stuff together, lock up then head to my room. So MY 8 hours time off starts when I get into my room. And it ends when I leave my room to head out to the bus the next morning. Many times I had to tell groups 9 or 10 hours. They just don’t understand that rule. But legally, just to start the bus by logging on has to be a minimum of 8 hours. Even so, drivers may only get 6 hours of actual sleep. Glad I had to retire, don’t have to worry about that anymore.
I use the Samsara app. I’ve worked with companies where some drivers would work more than they’re allowed to, and for me I would never do that. I told the company I can only work so much hours because of regulations. I’ve also had a manger ask me to work 14.0 hrs driving when we are only allowed 13 and also to work when I was sick. It’s not worth the risk to myself for my license, and my passengers to have a tired driver. Great video as always, have a good day.
I can say UK & EU ARE very strict on this 9 hours driving except twice in a week when you can drive 10 hours per day. A daily rest of 11 hour must be taken in any 24 hour period, this can be reduced to 9 hours a maximum of 3 times between any 2 weekly rest periods. This means that the working day (spread over) can be up to 13 hours except when a reduced rest is taken. These reduced rests must be compensated by the end of the following day’ Maximum 90 hours driving in any 2 weeks’ period, with no more the 56 hours in a single week. (Weeks are fixed Monday to Sunday not a rolling period). The day start at the commencement of the duty so can overlap the working week. 45 minutes’ break after a maximum of 4.5 hours This can be taken as 15 then 30 minutes by the end of the 4.5 hours. Once the 45-minute break is taken you start a new driving period. If you have to travel to meet your vehicle this counts as other work, and must be registered on your tachograph. 2 crew working. The rules are the same except the working day can be up to 21 hours, the second driver must be on the vehicle within 1 hour of the start of the duty, if not both drivers must work a maximum of 15 hours, if they have not already used this twice in the current week. They must also finish the duty together. It would be possible if there is less than 10 hours driving a 21-hour duty for 2 drivers to be present but only one to drive. 9 hours rest must be taken after the duty. The rules do not specify home many times you can take a 9 hour rest as 2 drivers, but the rule of a maximum 56 hours in one week or 90 in a fortnight will limit it. Working Day The working day is 24 hours from when your duty starts. Grey Area This can come down to the individual interpretation of an inspector. You could unwittingly drive over your hours if you start a new day less than 24 after the day before’s start. Eg: If you did 8 hours driving in 9 hours then took 9 hours rest then started work again, do your 15 minutes of checks then start driving you could only drive for 2 hours because it is only 22:15 since the start of the previous day. This then could bring the question have you started your next day or is it when you get 24 hours. Split Rest If you have a 3-hour rest during the day, then 9 hours later this counts as a full rest period. 12 Day Rule This is an exception to the normal rules for drivers who are touring out of their own country. Drivers will be are able to delay their weekly rest period until the end of day 12, but this rule cannot be applied to domestic trips, this must be 1 tour not back to back tours. A regular 45-hour rest must be taken prior to the journey beginning. In addition, at least one regular and one reduced weekly rest period - totalling at least 69 hours - should be taken back-to-back on the journey’s completion The “12 day rule” applies from 1st January 2014 only to coaches that have been previously fitted out with a digital control appliance. From 1st January 2014 either two drivers have to man a coach for trips between 22.00 pm and 06.00 am or the driver’s rest break has to be taken after a period of three hours at the wheel. Period of availability; Select this when you not on a legally required to take a break and you are not driving or doing other work. Domestic rules UK These rules only apply if you stay within a 50km radius of your starting point. (Mostly used by local bus operations). 10 hours driving per day Maximum 5.5 hours before 30 minutes break must be taken. Anomaly If the working day is not longer than 8.5 hours you can drive for 7.5 hours by taking short breaks of 15 minutes totaling 45 minutes. Driver Hours simplified
Always wondered how tight or close to the 10 hour limit companies like Greyhound or Traileays would schedule their drivers. Like is the max 9h30m with a 30 minute margin for how close they'll get? Does anyone know the guidelines or policy?
Hello from Montreal, CA. I am doing some occasional long trips. For a trip Montreal-Denver, CO -2 drivers and non-stop almost, what driving do you recommend: 4 driving / 4 sleeping, or 8/8? Thank you.
It's interesting to see the variations between bus truck and even the railroads. Our local transit system was 8 hours off but what you did in those 8 hours is up to you and I'd see many a person with their butt dragging. When I was clerking during Summerfest you'd have people working the overtime at night taking the People Back do the park and ride Lots and the first thing you did as you started the shift was write down what time the people were due off and you kept an eye open for them and then check them off as they came in. We'd always get some people that would try to sneak in that had gone past their scheduled off time so now you had to reset their next day start time. One item that was frustrating was if I couldn't find a relief person and I had a person out there but was running low on time is I had to have that person pull the bus in. Frustrating but it kept people honest and you also wouldn't get a lecture from the dispatcher and the boss the next day. This past weekend was not a good one for the company as we had two of our buses hit hard play people blowing red lights one at almost 100 mph. Both Autos had fatalities and we do have injuries but thankfully nothing life-threatening. Do you have a countdown clock ready for both the Republican and Democratic conventions? It's moments like that I can say thank you for the pension check
There’s always one or two people at a work, church, or travel group that will after an announcement is delivered will say… What did he say? What do we have to do? What time did he say this will happen?
The pictures do not give a good view of that sign post that split the front third of the bus right down the middle. The post with the news link was removed.
I drive 22 wheeler trucks (Heavy Combination vehicles) here in Sydney Australia and let me tell you, most folks who come to my company last no more than 3 months. Some last, many do not. It is alot harder than most folks care to aknowledge.. As I always say: 'You do not need to be a rocket scientist' but you do need some redeeming features such as being able to stay alert and being spacialy adjusted to your surroundings. And the fatigue from driving is different to most other fatigue I have ever felt in other jobs. Anyways here I am on what is known as Advanced Fatigue Management. So I can do 11 full 13 hour shifts in a fortnight with one hour break in those 13 hours of work and rarely do it because I find 10 hours a shift is more than enough for the bills to be paid but it is handy to have none the less....
Driving long haul prison buses is taxing. Sleeper berth on a moving bus with prisoners making frequent stops causes a lot of sleep interruptions. There are 3-5 drivers on board typically so if you get drowsy you can swap out, but I've always wondered how it all fits in with the laws. company also doesn't pay for sleeper time for any trip over 24 hours. so you get beat up, exhausted, and they definitely try to make sure you're out 24+ hours.
Looking forward to the announcement, and wish NJT would adhere to these rules a bit more as they do get some things out of wack with hours and being on call/extra board. Also, was it me or was that fire panel above ya in that unit bugged. Flashing ready and then a fault. =P
The HOS is a bit different than I thought it was for motor coaches. I used to drive a transit bus and the company I worked for had us follow the HOS for combination vehicles for the most part, we did not work more than 60 in a 7. I transferred to another department and working in their live entertainment and yeah, they throw all the rules out the door. I do not drive every day, heck I may be lucky to drive once a week sometimes, but it is like the HOS doesn't exist.
As a truck driver, I found this interesting. Our numbers are different, but the rules are generally the same. 14 hours on duty, 11 hours driving, 10 hours off duty, plus a requirement for us to take a 30 minute break after a maximum of 8 hours driving. When the 30 minute rule first went into effect, it had to be logged off duty, but in 2020 that changed, and now it can be logged as anything other than driving. Additionally, we can get a reset on our 70 hour by logging 34 consecutive hours off duty. Do coach drivers have a 34 hour reset rule or something similar?
Hi James, the e-log interface looks a bit over complicated, not sure how aware you are of the digital tachograph we have in Europe, but our way seems alot easier to work with. The unit fitted to every commercial vehicle does most of the work for you. The data is also logged on the in -vehicle head unit and on the digital smart card every commercial driver needs to have. The data can be downloade from either by police, VOSA (the UK equivalent of DoT) and the employer. The driving hours regulations (as stated in previous comments) over here also seem a lot better for the drivers.
Actually I have goal myself, after my degree I want to try a CDL job in the United States of course. My dream trucking company is Gp Transco and my dream bus company is yours. I just hope to get a chance when that time comes
I've been a CDL-B holder since January, 2018. Even though my current employer requires the use of ELD's, me and most of my fellow drivers fall under the "150 air mile" short-haul exemption. My previous employer, at that time, was still governed under the "100 air mile" rule, so I got used to filing logs. Nonetheless, I've toyed with the idea of getting my passenger endorsement. If it weren't for the fact that I'm the sole caretaker of my elderly parents I'd be willing to work further from home than being home every night... sort of.
Another aspect of violating HOS is liability. A coach driver that is over an HOS limit and involved in a collision (there are no accidents in professional driving) now has 56 passengers that can file a lawsuit against the driver.
Nj transit it’s 10hrs a day, and 70hrs in a 7 day period. It’s called 8 day/70. Your scheduled work can pay 50hrs a week and work both your days off. When they see us getting close to 70 they will cut us around 67hrs and pay you the 3 hours. We can stay on duty for 15hrs but only drive 10hrs, however if your sitting on extraboard for 8hrs you can only work another 7hrs.
What about if you have a long charter, let say 16 hours, but you will not go over your driving hours ( most of the time just waiting). Can you go off duty if there will be a long period of time to save your onduty time?
You can as long as those hours waiting do not require the driver to be obligated to do anything for the company or passengers. So If I go walking about the city or take a uber to go explore the food scene.. I am off duty. But If my passengers ask me to stay with the bus so that they can come on and off the bus throughout the day... I am on duty. I am still stuck doing something for the company or passengers.
@@MotorcoachWorld yeah was gonna say some coach companies provide shuttle service, public transit, etc... however, if a driver normally does these services but then is asked to do a week charter, can it be possible to temporarily go to ten hour rule and when you come back go back to the 14 hours within 150mi of base
Additionally if I sometimes do charters that are few days or more deals but I sometimes do 150 air miles of base things (charters or point a to point b or otherwise)...
Back when we only had log books ADM trucking could care less how you ran your log. And they did not care about your 8 hours off. Got off on a Friday after maybe a 12 hour day and they gave me 8 hours before I needed to be back in and on the road for a trip. Called me at home about 3 hours into my 8 hours off and asked if I could go ahead and come in now and make the trip because the customer was out of product. It was like a 7 hour drive one way. I should have reset my clock but they would have fired me for it
Here in Australia, it can get ridiculously complicated. Not withstanding the fact we are still stuck in the dark ages using paper logs and not many companies have embraced the electronic logs, we have to not only contend with work, rest and driving hours to calculate but we also have to calculate our hours based on how many night hours we spend driving as we can only drive a set number of night hours in a week. I get the reason why - to do with safety and fatigue. But it just makes it even more convoluted when you also have different levels of compliance - standard fatigue management (STD), basic fatigue management (BFM) and advanced fatigue management (AFM). Each level has a different number of maximum hours you must adhere to. Confused? You are motivated alone! How I wish our industry here was as quick to embrace electronic logs or work diaries (whatever you want to call them) here in Australia!!!
Intermittent fire suppression fault in the coach you filmed in. Strange the fault doesn't stay active long enough for the panel to beep or flash the code number.....
@@MotorcoachWorldInteresting. On our J4500s, the green light is on solid no matter what; whether the bus is running, in accessory, or off completely. I never saw one do what yours did in the video, but I am by no means an expert. So this is normal from your experience?
Most of our J models do that when they are in accessory mode. Some stay lit... but all of them stay on when the coach is started and running. Not sure why there is a variation... Unless Im mistaking... I will have our techs look into this though just to be sure that its not an oversight.. You got me wondering now.... lol @@kenjosky
Well, that explains it. When we did band trips at my high school we left at 9 PM at night mind you this was after I went to school all day. I got up at 5 AM to make it to school by seven. We would get to where we were going Between 6 AM and 7 AM the next day. This means one thing those bus drivers were actually driving illegally at 7 AM. There’s 10 hours right there. We would usually go to Cracker Barrel for breakfast one time there’s a hard rock. Then after breakfast, we either had to get ready for our performance or we would go to an amusement pike. They were definitely over the drive time because from where Louisiana coaches is in New Orleans to Slidell is an hour drive. So most of the time they were driving 11 hours sometimes 12.
When we say "hours" we mean based on the time the vehicle is moving over usually five miles per hour until it stops over five minutes not actual time on a clock. When the vehicle is sitting with passengers on it that's called, "on duty not driving time" and it is different from actual "drive time." If no one is one the bus and not moving its called, "off duty." You can be on duty a total of 15 hours (five on duty and ten driving) or driving all ten hours before needing eight hours off. That's for buses, I don't know about trucks.
This is different from many European countries. Here, we have 56 hours per week, but in total a maximum of 90 hours of driving in two consecutive weeks.
Let’s be real. If you are doing your job to the T and doing an exterior wash and wiping everything down and taking out trash etc you are not actually getting 8 hours off. Probably more like 3.
How are you drivers e-logging down time on a work day? Example; drive group to the destination and park it, they don’t need the bus for 5 hours cuz they’re doing whatever. Are you logging off duty or on duty not driving? And then go on duty not driving for a few minutes before leaving to pick up and go to on duty driving.
This is where many drivers are told different things. I was told that “down time” during the working of a charter is off duty as long as I’m not obligated to be doing anything with the group and am free to walk around, get a meal, take a nap across some seats, anything like that. Then when it’s time to pick the group up, it’s on duty driving or ODND for loading or such. But some drivers are told during down time, you’re still being paid, so your ODND. I don’t agree with that, I feel they are wrong. If drivers did that, many trips would not be able to complete. So no obligation, off duty. 👍
Im so glad I never had the elogs or any tachographs. I had good ole fashioned log books. Yes, plural. Iykyk. But its how my first year driving I made over 80k in one year! We had one heck of a good contract, and kind of look back, and wonder, what if. I would be raking in 150k driving a bus, having fun, meeting models
My wife worked in the office of a trucking company when we got married. This is a few years before I started driving bus PT. She always told me about the two log book system the drivers did. Not that they agreed with or encouraged it. The two log books were one to turn in with paperwork, and the other to show to the officer when getting DOT’d. When I started driving bus, I understood what all that meant. I never did it though. Too much hassle. Not worth the risk.
What would happen if there is a major accident and then it hits you timed out on I80 in between hotels and are far from the final hotel and the group needs to be there
Who the hell knocks on a drivers door at 1am and asks to open up the bus or to be driven somewhere? You should never give out your room number and turn off the phone. In fact, you should stay on a completely different floor from your group.
Good advice Steve. Sometimes the group booked our hotel rooms so they Automatically know where my room is lol. It doesn't happen very often but it has happened enough to me and other drivers.
@@MotorcoachWorld You drive passengers for a livening, so you have to have a lot of patients and tolerance.. But everyone has their limits. Wake me up out of a sound sleep- the hotel better be on fire! Or someone's getting smacked!
Every bus trip I've been on, the driver stayed at a different hotel to completely prevent the scenario you describe of passengers disturbing the rest period. Makes a lot of sense.
That’s not practical but perhaps the only way to fend off rude and inconsiderate people.
as a long haul prison bus driver. who has to sleep on the road with prisoners on board and doesnt get paid for those hours. I freaking wish.
@@xNicholasWolf If you are sleeping on the bus with prisoners, you are still on duty!
I audit logs constantly for my company, when drivers misuse personal conveyance (intentional or in-intentional), it is a really big deal. Fines will be issued. Groups will ask drivers all the time to use it to the group's benefit. When I started out driving, I had a band director that I dropped off at the hotel around midnight, I told him that I won't be back until 9:30am at the earliest. He flipped out and said we are leaving at 6am. I said "you go ahead and leave at 6am, but not with this bus". His school transportation director personally called me and apologized for his misbehavior.
That happened to me often when I drove. Example, school group to DC with 6 buses. Drove from the pickup near Buffalo to several points in DC. Our hotel was near Dulles Airport. She wanted to get more done that evening and I told her we were running close to our ten hours driving. Since they had reservations for the Newseum early the next morning, I said we either skip out now and head to the hotel, or you cancel the newseum. But it won’t work doing both. She got all pissed off but we headed to the hotel. By the time we drove there, unloaded then parked a quarter mile away, we each had maybe 10 driving minutes left.
She then complained, in writing, to our company owner that we did what we did because I just wanted to be done early, we were all lazy, we aren’t accommodating to them, blah blah blah. Well lady, we did what we did cuz that’s the law and the elogs track everything. It would be no skin off her ass but a lot off of ours.
Thats one of my favorite comments to receive. "Oh my gosh, I wish I could do as little work as you do AND be over paid!" Thats probably why commercial driving has such low turn over ;-)
Very interesting to find out that if your break is interrupted, the 8hr starts over😮
I loved it when non-tipping groups (kids, sports teams,…) would ask for something that would threaten legality like they were due white glove service. There’s a mom in Iowa somewhere who’s still probably pissed at me for not making a 50 minute round trip across suburban Indianapolis to retrieve their kid’s pillow left at the hotel 😂. I never had any late-night interruptions, fortunately, but I would set the boundaries as you mentioned. I got a lot of good advice on that from the experienced drivers I worked with when I was new.
Lol lots of those entitled people around these days.
As a truck driver, I absolutely hated the e-logs. They made me more tired because I no longer had control over when I was tired or alert, the government decided that for me. I don't know how the e-logs have hurt or helped the motorcoach industry. I would like to get your opinion on that issue.
I had a time when my bus was towed and the elog processed it as "drive time." It couldn't be changed. Rest wise nothing really changed... I'm in charter so we go when told to....
@@DSHitee-logs were meant to keep drivers compliant. But we all know that compliance does not equal safety.
In Europe we have tachographs, these record the drivers activity. In the case of a vehicle being towed the driver's card is removed so the vehicle movement isn't attributed to the driver.
The drivers tachograph card is credit card sized and stores information on the drivers activities for 28 days.
I've been driving a motorcoach for 15 years and I have not had any negative issue with the ELD and fatigue, compared to paper logs.
Part of it is being fortunate to work for ethical carriers that paid me fairly and respected when I said I was tired. They also helped establish boundaries with the chartering groups before dispatching the trip.
I found in my case ELDs gave me 1 to 2 hours more availability over the course for an 8 day period, and up to an hour more in a day. This is a result of the higher precision of time keeping, where paper logs we rounded to the nearest 15 minutes.
In trucking, I don't believe that the ELD is the biggest problem. Trucking's issue is that to prevent the "endless day", your 14 hour duty clock runs until you take 10 consecutive hours off duty. As a motorcoach operator, if I go off duty, all clocks stop. I do not get 8 consecutive hours off to reset, then I have whatever balance left on my clocks to utilize until I take 8 consecutive hours off duty. In trucking that less than 10 hour break only saves time on your 60/70 hours, but you still need to be off the road 14 hours after starting your day.
That inflexibility is the real HOS problem in trucking, not the ELD.
I am glad I retired before ELogs came along.
I like how you talked about the FLD logs and emergency hours. I wouldn't mind seeing a video that got a little more in to that.
As a new Motor Coach Operating who recently completed my training, I appreciate your over overview as it helped me better understand!!!! Me personally, I hope I NEVER have to use a paper log!!!
I love the HoS rules in Canada. Both trucks and buses have 13hrs drive time, 14hrs On Duty time, with a 2 hour break(in minimum 30min breaks) the onduty time can be stretched over a 16 hour window. I start work at 5am, drive London to Toronto, back at 1130am. Off till 1345 to return for the second rounder finishing at 8pm in London. Im on the clock 5am til 9pm, only working 13.5max all on ELD.my current schedule has me 41hours in 3 days(5 trips) off for 36hrs for a reset. Then back out for 5 trips. I get 19 trips in two weeks(38 individual runs). I may be the most frequent operator in and out of Union Station Bus Terminal(aside from the GO transit operators).
All companies I work with in BC use the USA rules
@dcholin if a company in Canada has to enter the US. The driver needs to be in compliance., best was to do that is to stay on the US rules.
Lady I work with she gets audited every 2 years by us dot
She is getting one this year in a month
Great coverage of the HOS we work with as coach operators, I was surprised you didn’t cover the 150 air mile rule…where I do most of my trips.
I think that was a bad taste joke naturally it is critical to keep your eyes open LOL
Love your videos James!
I was told that the typical on duty time would be approximately 14 hours along with 10 hours of uninterrupted off-duty time. Then again, not all companies use that rule of thumb for their drivers, whether it be for motor coach operators, school buses, or straight truck (box truck) drivers. The 15/9 seems to be pushing the limits a little, but again, not all companies follow any set block of rules. As long as they can properly monitor a driver's hours and adhere to the FMCSA regulations, there should be no issues come Roadside Inspection time. What people don't realize is this; as a professional driver, we cannot drive longer than 8 hours WITHOUT taking the mandatory 30 minute rest break. Most times, people get upset when a bus driver takes their 30 minute break in the middle of a trip (look at the horror stories coming from Greyhound customers), and a lot of times, those 30 minute breaks are set within the route schedule. Thank you for taking the time to explain the laws to the general public, James. Be safe out on the roads, and enjoy the time behind the wheel. :)
Very good advice about HOS on a motor coach. I have been a semi truck driver for about 20 years, but I just got my passenger endorsement added to my class A and will be starting a new adventure driving coach and getting used to my new HOS. Great video and look forward to serving your next video.
Thank you for your kind words. Be safe out there. Congrats on your new career move! I hope you absolutely love it!
This is a great informational video for those who charter buses for trips. A charter bus company would do well to show to all clients when they hire a bus. As a truck driver, I hated paper logs, when I got bus endorsements on my license and worked part time for a charter bus company. I had a second part time job. The safety manager with the bus company required me to submit a paper log weekly showing my other job. And due to the time of my commute from home to bus yard, I was once put up in a nearby motel to be in compliance with off duty hours.
As a former truck driver I hated paper logs also. I've gotten several log violations not because I was trying to cheat the system, rather because I simply hated doing them or any other paper work. When e-logs came along I embraced it heartily as it simplified my job.
@@williamjones4483 I agreed the elogs or ELD's are great. My only experience with the ELD came during my short stint as a charter bus driver. Once I learned how to log into it, it was great. I don't recall which system that company used, but one memorable trip comes to mind. A major requirement with that company was to refuel the bus at the end of a trip, prior to returning it to the yard. A nearby truck stop was my preferred fuel stop. I got to the truck stop with less than ten minutes left on my 10 hour driving time and the ELD was making nasty sounds and sending harsh messages. Once full of fuel it started again for the short trip to the yard. Which entailed stopping the bus at the gate, getting out punching in the gate code, getting back behind the wheel and trough the gate before it closed again without it it hitting the bus. Next chore get the thing parked. When I shut down, I had one minute left on my driving day. And the screen on the ELD was going crazy.
Great to see a new vid from you. Always learning something new.
So I just wanted to thank you for your videos they have helped me out so much in learning how to drive a motorcoach. Now I am certified to drive. Can't wait to start a brand new journey in my Bus career.
Hey congrats Tammy! Thank you for the kind words. These kinds of comments really give me the drive to keep making TH-cam video!
James, passed a Peoria Charter bus on I-44 East in St. Robert, MO yesterday. Thought of you...
Motorcoach World is first. Nice vid! As an aspiring trucker or bus driver, can't wait to hear what you think about the ELD
Your videos are always exciting, specially this one, you make me want to get back to being a Motor coach operator, safe traveling
James,
I always thought that the hours of service for bus drivers were the same as truck drivers.
I was a truck driver more recently than I was a motorcoach operator.
When I retired from trucking, it was 14 hours on duty, 11 hours driving during that 14, followed by 10 hours uninterrupted off duty.
Now I work part-time driving a city transit with NO FMCSR....thank you Lord! 😂
Any bus that requires a CDL the driver follows the same hours of service rules that truckers used to follow. That's 10 hours maximum driving with 8 hours off duty or sleeper berth or a combination. Since buses don't have sleepers it's easiest to put the driver up in a hotel for 8 hours off duty.
When I used to teach HoS to new hires, I always told them that logs and hours of service regulations are clear enough that they can be stated in a few short minutes and you will have decades of learning what they actually mean and allow. The trick is learning where in that grey area you are safe and comfortable to operate. I worked with some who were so strict in their adherence that they would never log off duty from the time they reported to work to the time they got in their car to go home, and others who were so flagrant as to joke about logging off duty at stop signs. There were many times that I ran my logbook to the absolute limit and utilizing the HoS differences between the US and Canada to my fullest advantage, but I always did what I gelt was safe and best for the customer and never once did I even get a second look from a DOT officer at an inspection.
Congratulations James on your new roll
I thought your hours of service would've been the same has semi-trailer trucks. But it's a bit different.
Loved the bits and bytes of Captain Kirk and Captain Sulu in bed. :) Greetings from Switzerland. ^^
My favorite intro is back!! Hello James!
Excellent video! Thanks for educating people so clearly.
Thanks .... For the better explanation of hours it makes more sense now
Hi 👋 James Informative Video 📹 👍 Looking forward to your Update.. 🙏 🇺🇦
Excellent video, as always, James. How many times have I heard: "A Trained Monkey Could Do Your Job". I doubt if those nitwits could pass their monkey training, leave alone their coach operator training! I never found coach driving to be anything but challenging, with a new surprise almost every day. That's why I loved the job. (Oh, and the MCI equipment, of course!). 👍
Hey there James another great video 🤙
Another great video, James! Some definite nostalgia there with the logbooks. I remember my dad filling those out, but I only had a vague sense of what they were for. I had my own set of logs, along with other of his forms, and I would do my “reports” like he would, just drawing lines in my logbook! I imagine I was often “out of compliance!” 🤣 Of course as a techno geek, former electrical engineer adult, I think the electronics are fascinating and an obvious platform for logging time. But as I watched, I just imagined my dad gripping incessantly if he had to use “computers” to do his reports! 🤣 As I have commented before, I imagine he would be amazed - and maybe appalled - at how buses have changed! I look forward to your announcement!
Hi James, I will be looking forward to your news.......You are a professional..............Thanks for your channel.......Jeff, Rockford Illinois
Thank you Jeff! Much appreciate
Great video! Keep up the good work
My biggest challenge with the 70/8 rule was driving a new coach from ABC in Florida to Seattle and avoiding a reset. My Garmin produced a time efficient route that got me to Seattle in under 70 hrs and withing the speed limits.
James, good to see you! Nice video.
Les!!! I was just thinking about you the other day. Hey email me. JWang@peoriacharter.com
Hey James! I've been watching your channel for a while! I gotta say that it's really different from being a Citybus driver like i am. Over here i just have to drive my schedule and go home. Ofcourse i have to check the bus for faults before leaving the garage to pick up the first passengers. It really increased my respect for Motorcoach Drivers like you. Here in Europe we have different rules and regulations for the Motorcoach (or as we refer to as Touringcar/Tourbus). For example we have to drive for 4.5 hours and after that we have to take a mandatory break of at least 45 minutes. I'm sorry if my English is a bit all over the place, it's not my first language so please don't be harsh.
Anyways i wanted to tell you that i love the channel and that i really respect you and your company!
Kind regards,
Brandon Dammers (a fellow busnut).
Thank you so much for the kind words. I've been a city transit operator before. And certain ways I kind of miss it. My favorite thing about it was the rhythm. Once you get into a groove driving those streets it's like a good workout almost lol. Sorry if that sounds kind of strange haha.
@@MotorcoachWorld I see where you’re coming from! I drive articulated buses as well, now that sometimes can be a whole steering workout just for a tight corner😂. Thanks for replying!
Great video as always 💪
I've seen other channels where drivers (primarily truck drivers) say "I don't like having to log my time, it keeps me from doing my job...which is driving." That doesn't sound like they're focused on safety.
hi david i am a bus geek in kenya 🇰🇪,check my channel: )
Interesting. By the time the driver checkins into the hotel, showers, and eats. He or She will have about 5-6 hours of sleep. Doesn't seem very safe to me
Hi James. When I was driving CMV's the pre and post trip was only 15 minutes for each. What I could never understand is why the HOS back then was different for trucks and buses. 10 hours for coach and 11 hours for trucks.
Years ago I had a steady run from DC to Atlantic City 3 days a week. When I got to AC and dropped of the passengers I had to go to a prescribed parking lot. There was a driver lounge and rooms to sleep in for a cost. My people got 6 hours play time and had to be ready to go when I got there. These runs made it tight as far as hours go. What would happen on the return run I would hit dispatch on the good old Nextel to let him know to send a relief bus to finish my trip. We had a pre designated location. After the tranfer my terminal was less than 10 minutes away. On an occasion or 2 they had no one to cover the trip and i had to continue on in to DC and then back to the terminal. Back then I knew nothing about PC and this was also pre ELD.
Found your channel recently. Really enjoying the content and learning a ton!!! I drove transit busses and MCI D-series Motorcoaches back in the late-1990's. Kept my CDL active all these years. Trying to get back into it. Just applied at two different companies near me in Ohio. I have a question about HOS... I have also applied for a couple Class-B trucking jobs, too. I know that freight drivers use an 11-hour drive clock within a 14 hour duty clock, rather than the passenger-carrying clocks of 10 & 15 hours. My question is regarding the 70-hour/8-day clock... For freight drivers, the 70 hour clock can be completely reset by the driver taking a "34-hour restart" (34 continuous hours off-duty). As I was studying this in the FMCSR's, I did not see in the regulation anywhere about a 34-hour break resetting the 70 hour clock for a bus/coach driver. Is the "34-hour" restart not a "thing" to get a fresh clock for bus/coach operators, like it is for truck drivers?
I once had a "debate" with a former supervisor who claimed that you could go "off duty not driving" during the day with a multi stop itinerary in an 8 hour period.
My contention was that your status should really be "on duty not driving" since you could reasonably be expected to depart a given location early due to road or weather conditions, customers needing to use the lavoratory, answer a call from the tour guide, etc."
Is there a right answer?
Early versions of Samsara put drivers into On Duty Not Driving when the E brake was applied. Drivers started using the E brake at red lights and in heavy traffic when stops were prolonged. Each time the E brake was pulled, drivers got a few more minutes of Driving time and didn't believe they could be faulted.
In New Zealand drivers can be on the road for 13 hours. This means a whole journey half way across the country from major cities can be achieved without breaking for a half day.
Played tourist in Paris, went to the Eiffel tower, tour operator told us that bus driver must leave at x time to allow for working/driving hours, 40 passengers, I was the only one on time. Tour company paid allot of taxi drivers to move people that night.
I’ve told groups that I need at least 9 hours from when I drop off but prefer 10 so that I stay rested and safe. They usually don’t argue cause they are riding with me and need me to be alert and focused. It cracks me up how many folks ask how I slept and if I got enough rest. But it helps that our office and dispatch staff make sure we have enough down time between runs
I’d done the same when I drove. You could fudge the paper logs a little here and there, but not the elogs. People thought that when THEY get off the bus, the 8 hours off started then. No no no…. I still have to park it, and that can be a shitshow at some hotels. Then do the post trips. Then clean the bus from all the kiddies and/or adults trash and their on board food snacks. Maybe mop it, etc. Close out the slog from on duty not driving to off duty. Then get my stuff together, lock up then head to my room. So MY 8 hours time off starts when I get into my room. And it ends when I leave my room to head out to the bus the next morning. Many times I had to tell groups 9 or 10 hours. They just don’t understand that rule. But legally, just to start the bus by logging on has to be a minimum of 8 hours. Even so, drivers may only get 6 hours of actual sleep. Glad I had to retire, don’t have to worry about that anymore.
Here in Australia. We can drive for 12 hours or 14 hours if you do an on line fatigue course.
Looking forward to your big announcement!
I use the Samsara app. I’ve worked with companies where some drivers would work more than they’re allowed to, and for me I would never do that. I told the company I can only work so much hours because of regulations. I’ve also had a manger ask me to work 14.0 hrs driving when we are only allowed 13 and also to work when I was sick. It’s not worth the risk to myself for my license, and my passengers to have a tired driver. Great video as always, have a good day.
Can you make a video on what you see in the mirrors? Love to see how things look as a driver
Great idea for a topic! Yes I will!
I can say UK & EU ARE very strict on this
9 hours driving except twice in a week when you can drive 10 hours per day. A daily rest of 11 hour must be taken in any 24 hour period, this can be reduced to 9 hours a maximum of 3 times between any 2 weekly rest periods. This means that the working day (spread over) can be up to 13 hours except when a reduced rest is taken. These reduced rests must be compensated by the end of the following day’
Maximum 90 hours driving in any 2 weeks’ period, with no more the 56 hours in a single week. (Weeks are fixed Monday to Sunday not a rolling period). The day start at the commencement of the duty so can overlap the working week.
45 minutes’ break after a maximum of 4.5 hours
This can be taken as 15 then 30 minutes by the end of the 4.5 hours. Once the 45-minute break is taken you start a new driving period.
If you have to travel to meet your vehicle this counts as other work, and must be registered on your tachograph.
2 crew working.
The rules are the same except the working day can be up to 21 hours, the second driver must be on the vehicle within 1 hour of the start of the duty, if not both drivers must work a maximum of 15 hours, if they have not already used this twice in the current week. They must also finish the duty together. It would be possible if there is less than 10 hours driving a 21-hour duty for 2 drivers to be present but only one to drive. 9 hours rest must be taken after the duty. The rules do not specify home many times you can take a 9 hour rest as 2 drivers, but the rule of a maximum 56 hours in one week or 90 in a fortnight will limit it.
Working Day
The working day is 24 hours from when your duty starts. Grey Area This can come down to the individual interpretation of an inspector. You could unwittingly drive over your hours if you start a new day less than 24 after the day before’s start. Eg: If you did 8 hours driving in 9 hours then took 9 hours rest then started work again, do your 15 minutes of checks then start driving you could only drive for 2 hours because it is only 22:15 since the start of the previous day. This then could bring the question have you started your next day or is it when you get 24 hours.
Split Rest
If you have a 3-hour rest during the day, then 9 hours later this counts as a full rest period.
12 Day Rule
This is an exception to the normal rules for drivers who are touring out of their own country. Drivers will be are able to delay their weekly rest period until the end of day 12, but this rule cannot be applied to domestic trips, this must be 1 tour not back to back tours. A regular 45-hour rest must be taken prior to the journey beginning. In addition, at least one regular and one reduced weekly rest period - totalling at least 69 hours - should be taken back-to-back on the journey’s completion
The “12 day rule” applies from 1st January 2014 only to coaches that have been previously fitted out with a digital control appliance.
From 1st January 2014 either two drivers have to man a coach for trips between 22.00 pm and 06.00 am or the driver’s rest break has to be taken after a period of three hours at the wheel.
Period of availability; Select this when you not on a legally required to take a break and you are not driving or doing other work.
Domestic rules UK
These rules only apply if you stay within a 50km radius of your starting point. (Mostly used by local bus operations).
10 hours driving per day
Maximum 5.5 hours before 30 minutes break must be taken.
Anomaly If the working day is not longer than 8.5 hours you can drive for 7.5 hours by taking short breaks of 15 minutes totaling 45 minutes.
Driver Hours simplified
Best thing to happen in the Coaching Industry was the introduction of the Digital tachograph, started driving in 79 retired 2021.
Always wondered how tight or close to the 10 hour limit companies like Greyhound or Traileays would schedule their drivers. Like is the max 9h30m with a 30 minute margin for how close they'll get? Does anyone know the guidelines or policy?
Hello from Montreal, CA. I am doing some occasional long trips. For a trip Montreal-Denver, CO -2 drivers and non-stop almost, what driving do you recommend: 4 driving / 4 sleeping, or 8/8? Thank you.
It's interesting to see the variations between bus truck and even the railroads. Our local transit system was 8 hours off but what you did in those 8 hours is up to you and I'd see many a person with their butt dragging. When I was clerking during Summerfest you'd have people working the overtime at night taking the People Back do the park and ride Lots and the first thing you did as you started the shift was write down what time the people were due off and you kept an eye open for them and then check them off as they came in. We'd always get some people that would try to sneak in that had gone past their scheduled off time so now you had to reset their next day start time. One item that was frustrating was if I couldn't find a relief person and I had a person out there but was running low on time is I had to have that person pull the bus in. Frustrating but it kept people honest and you also wouldn't get a lecture from the dispatcher and the boss the next day. This past weekend was not a good one for the company as we had two of our buses hit hard play people blowing red lights one at almost 100 mph. Both Autos had fatalities and we do have injuries but thankfully nothing life-threatening. Do you have a countdown clock ready for both the Republican and Democratic conventions? It's moments like that I can say thank you for the pension check
La Cubana in Miami had a sleeper berth for the NYC line run they have. 2 drivers.
thanks james. caroline
There’s always one or two people at a work, church, or travel group that will after an announcement is delivered will say… What did he say? What do we have to do? What time did he say this will happen?
Yeah, when I give announcements I purposely repeat myself during certain lines.
Very well "explained" 👌
The pictures do not give a good view of that sign post that split the front third of the bus right down the middle.
The post with the news link was removed.
I drive 22 wheeler trucks (Heavy Combination vehicles) here in Sydney Australia and let me tell you, most folks who come to my company last no more than 3 months. Some last, many do not. It is alot harder than most folks care to aknowledge..
As I always say: 'You do not need to be a rocket scientist' but you do need some redeeming features such as being able to stay alert and being spacialy adjusted to your surroundings. And the fatigue from driving is different to most other fatigue I have ever felt in other jobs.
Anyways here I am on what is known as Advanced Fatigue Management. So I can do 11 full 13 hour shifts in a fortnight with one hour break in those 13 hours of work and rarely do it because I find 10 hours a shift is more than enough for the bills to be paid but it is handy to have none the less....
Hey, another Aussie here. You doing livestock transport?
@@matthewb9824 country runs for Post mate.
Driving long haul prison buses is taxing. Sleeper berth on a moving bus with prisoners making frequent stops causes a lot of sleep interruptions. There are 3-5 drivers on board typically so if you get drowsy you can swap out, but I've always wondered how it all fits in with the laws. company also doesn't pay for sleeper time for any trip over 24 hours. so you get beat up, exhausted, and they definitely try to make sure you're out 24+ hours.
Ouch. That sounds horrible. Thank you for sharing.
Looking forward to the announcement, and wish NJT would adhere to these rules a bit more as they do get some things out of wack with hours and being on call/extra board. Also, was it me or was that fire panel above ya in that unit bugged. Flashing ready and then a fault. =P
They’re gonna make him drive an electric school bus with no AC cross country thru the desert this summer.🤪
Interesting video i just subscribed
Thank you Phil. Welcome aboard!
The HOS is a bit different than I thought it was for motor coaches. I used to drive a transit bus and the company I worked for had us follow the HOS for combination vehicles for the most part, we did not work more than 60 in a 7. I transferred to another department and working in their live entertainment and yeah, they throw all the rules out the door. I do not drive every day, heck I may be lucky to drive once a week sometimes, but it is like the HOS doesn't exist.
As a truck driver, I found this interesting. Our numbers are different, but the rules are generally the same. 14 hours on duty, 11 hours driving, 10 hours off duty, plus a requirement for us to take a 30 minute break after a maximum of 8 hours driving. When the 30 minute rule first went into effect, it had to be logged off duty, but in 2020 that changed, and now it can be logged as anything other than driving. Additionally, we can get a reset on our 70 hour by logging 34 consecutive hours off duty. Do coach drivers have a 34 hour reset rule or something similar?
Hi James, the e-log interface looks a bit over complicated, not sure how aware you are of the digital tachograph we have in Europe, but our way seems alot easier to work with. The unit fitted to every commercial vehicle does most of the work for you. The data is also logged on the in -vehicle head unit and on the digital smart card every commercial driver needs to have.
The data can be downloade from either by police, VOSA (the UK equivalent of DoT) and the employer.
The driving hours regulations (as stated in previous comments) over here also seem a lot better for the drivers.
Actually I have goal myself, after my degree I want to try a CDL job in the United States of course. My dream trucking company is Gp Transco and my dream bus company is yours. I just hope to get a chance when that time comes
I've been a CDL-B holder since January, 2018. Even though my current employer requires the use of ELD's, me and most of my fellow drivers fall under the "150 air mile" short-haul exemption. My previous employer, at that time, was still governed under the "100 air mile" rule, so I got used to filing logs. Nonetheless, I've toyed with the idea of getting my passenger endorsement. If it weren't for the fact that I'm the sole caretaker of my elderly parents I'd be willing to work further from home than being home every night... sort of.
Another aspect of violating HOS is liability. A coach driver that is over an HOS limit and involved in a collision (there are no accidents in professional driving) now has 56 passengers that can file a lawsuit against the driver.
Nj transit it’s 10hrs a day, and 70hrs in a 7 day period. It’s called 8 day/70. Your scheduled work can pay 50hrs a week and work both your days off. When they see us getting close to 70 they will cut us around 67hrs and pay you the 3 hours. We can stay on duty for 15hrs but only drive 10hrs, however if your sitting on extraboard for 8hrs you can only work another 7hrs.
What about if you have a long charter, let say 16 hours, but you will not go over your driving hours ( most of the time just waiting). Can you go off duty if there will be a long period of time to save your onduty time?
You can as long as those hours waiting do not require the driver to be obligated to do anything for the company or passengers. So If I go walking about the city or take a uber to go explore the food scene.. I am off duty. But If my passengers ask me to stay with the bus so that they can come on and off the bus throughout the day... I am on duty. I am still stuck doing something for the company or passengers.
I need a clear presentation of the short haul exemption and how it does not extend the 10 hours of drive time.
Do these rules also apply to city public transit drivers?
Good question. No it does not. One thing I failed to mention in this video was if you operate within 150 mi of your home base you do not have to log
Does it mean, you can drive for 10 hours streight? Or are you required to have a rest for example for 30 mins after 4 hours etc.?
I think you add state law for breaks. like here in CA it is 5 hours then a half hr break. then another 5 hours, then you're done for 8 hours (federal)
Big announcement??? Your getting a promotion aren't you!
Lol 😂 you have some kind of telepathic abilities???
@@MotorcoachWorld nah. I just see how much you do there and how hard you work. You deserve a promotion!
So what, what if all you do is work within 150 air miles of the base? Isnt there a 14 hour rule
Yeah I think you don't even have to log if you operate within 150 miles of your base. Good point to bring up. I forgot to mention this.
@@MotorcoachWorld yeah was gonna say some coach companies provide shuttle service, public transit, etc... however, if a driver normally does these services but then is asked to do a week charter, can it be possible to temporarily go to ten hour rule and when you come back go back to the 14 hours within 150mi of base
Additionally if I sometimes do charters that are few days or more deals but I sometimes do 150 air miles of base things (charters or point a to point b or otherwise)...
That's the "regional radius." If you operate within a 150 mile radius of I believe your origin point, logging is not required
@@LegoWormNoah101 that's what I thought, because I knew there was a 14 hour/150 air mile radius rule
Back when we only had log books ADM trucking could care less how you ran your log. And they did not care about your 8 hours off. Got off on a Friday after maybe a 12 hour day and they gave me 8 hours before I needed to be back in and on the road for a trip. Called me at home about 3 hours into my 8 hours off and asked if I could go ahead and come in now and make the trip because the customer was out of product. It was like a 7 hour drive one way. I should have reset my clock but they would have fired me for it
Here in Australia, it can get ridiculously complicated. Not withstanding the fact we are still stuck in the dark ages using paper logs and not many companies have embraced the electronic logs, we have to not only contend with work, rest and driving hours to calculate but we also have to calculate our hours based on how many night hours we spend driving as we can only drive a set number of night hours in a week. I get the reason why - to do with safety and fatigue. But it just makes it even more convoluted when you also have different levels of compliance - standard fatigue management (STD), basic fatigue management (BFM) and advanced fatigue management (AFM). Each level has a different number of maximum hours you must adhere to. Confused? You are motivated alone! How I wish our industry here was as quick to embrace electronic logs or work diaries (whatever you want to call them) here in Australia!!!
Congratulations on your 9 letter word. 😎
What is CB the process to obtain CDL?
Congrats on the 'big news'! 😉
Amazing…..you can get hammered for just living what honestly happens in real life. This is the company’s fault, not our’s.
SOME companies will try to get you to "manipulate". Bottom line. It's your license and YOU need to protect it.
Actually, bus driving is a dream job.
It is just a pity that entitled holy popes without crown turn this dream job into a hellish nightmare!
On how much you can drive is depending on your state that you live in rule's
The way I’ve told people when I was driving truck was I have x hrs to do y hrs of driving
Lmao, tell the MTA about this. They don’t care.
Intermittent fire suppression fault in the coach you filmed in. Strange the fault doesn't stay active long enough for the panel to beep or flash the code number.....
The Coach wasn't started. It was on accessories mode.
@@MotorcoachWorldInteresting. On our J4500s, the green light is on solid no matter what; whether the bus is running, in accessory, or off completely. I never saw one do what yours did in the video, but I am by no means an expert. So this is normal from your experience?
Most of our J models do that when they are in accessory mode. Some stay lit... but all of them stay on when the coach is started and running. Not sure why there is a variation... Unless Im mistaking... I will have our techs look into this though just to be sure that its not an oversight.. You got me wondering now.... lol @@kenjosky
Well, that explains it. When we did band trips at my high school we left at 9 PM at night mind you this was after I went to school all day. I got up at 5 AM to make it to school by seven. We would get to where we were going Between 6 AM and 7 AM the next day. This means one thing those bus drivers were actually driving illegally at 7 AM. There’s 10 hours right there. We would usually go to Cracker Barrel for breakfast one time there’s a hard rock. Then after breakfast, we either had to get ready for our performance or we would go to an amusement pike. They were definitely over the drive time because from where Louisiana coaches is in New Orleans to Slidell is an hour drive. So most of the time they were driving 11 hours sometimes 12.
When we say "hours" we mean based on the time the vehicle is moving over usually five miles per hour until it stops over five minutes not actual time on a clock. When the vehicle is sitting with passengers on it that's called, "on duty not driving time" and it is different from actual "drive time." If no one is one the bus and not moving its called, "off duty." You can be on duty a total of 15 hours (five on duty and ten driving) or driving all ten hours before needing eight hours off. That's for buses, I don't know about trucks.
They still use the 10 8 rule for buses. I have a class A cdl
This is different from many European countries. Here, we have 56 hours per week, but in total a maximum of 90 hours of driving in two consecutive weeks.
12:19🇺🇸🇺🇸🥹🤣🤣 always wanted to see a driver do that.
Let’s be real. If you are doing your job to the T and doing an exterior wash and wiping everything down and taking out trash etc you are not actually getting 8 hours off. Probably more like 3.
Wow. 8 hours doesn’t seem like much.
How are you drivers e-logging down time on a work day? Example; drive group to the destination and park it, they don’t need the bus for 5 hours cuz they’re doing whatever. Are you logging off duty or on duty not driving? And then go on duty not driving for a few minutes before leaving to pick up and go to on duty driving.
If our drivers are not obligated to do anything for the company, they can show them selves as off duty.
This is where many drivers are told different things. I was told that “down time” during the working of a charter is off duty as long as I’m not obligated to be doing anything with the group and am free to walk around, get a meal, take a nap across some seats, anything like that. Then when it’s time to pick the group up, it’s on duty driving or ODND for loading or such. But some drivers are told during down time, you’re still being paid, so your ODND. I don’t agree with that, I feel they are wrong. If drivers did that, many trips would not be able to complete. So no obligation, off duty. 👍
Im so glad I never had the elogs or any tachographs. I had good ole fashioned log books.
Yes, plural. Iykyk. But its how my first year driving I made over 80k in one year! We had one heck of a good contract, and kind of look back, and wonder, what if. I would be raking in 150k driving a bus, having fun, meeting models
My wife worked in the office of a trucking company when we got married. This is a few years before I started driving bus PT. She always told me about the two log book system the drivers did. Not that they agreed with or encouraged it. The two log books were one to turn in with paperwork, and the other to show to the officer when getting DOT’d.
When I started driving bus, I understood what all that meant. I never did it though. Too much hassle. Not worth the risk.
✌🏾
What would happen if there is a major accident and then it hits you timed out on I80 in between hotels and are far from the final hotel and the group needs to be there
You should be able to use your emergency hours at that point.
Do truck drivers follow the same law as coach bus drivers?
Yes
yes but they have a 14 hour clock with 11 hours of driving and 10 hours off clock with a 30 minute break after 8 hours of driving
Who the hell knocks on a drivers door at 1am and asks to open up the bus or to be driven somewhere? You should never give out your room number and turn off the phone. In fact, you should stay on a completely different floor from your group.
Good advice Steve. Sometimes the group booked our hotel rooms so they Automatically know where my room is lol. It doesn't happen very often but it has happened enough to me and other drivers.
@@MotorcoachWorld You drive passengers for a livening, so you have to have a lot of patients and tolerance.. But everyone has their limits. Wake me up out of a sound sleep- the hotel better be on fire! Or someone's getting smacked!
Can only drove so much?