Don't buy an ex-charter sailboat! Episode 204 - Lady K Sailing
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 พ.ย. 2022
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This week we look at buying a charter sailboat!
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I purchased a 5 year old charter cat from a leading charter company this year. I think you overstated the quality of the maintenance and repairs- these boats need to be turned around on a schedule with an overloaded maintenance staff, and repairs are done by talented people but in the quickest manner. Often they don’t have the parts they need at the charter base, so they borrow parts from other boats make one ready for a scheduled charter. They order the parts to backfill the “borrowed” part but life happens and there are always boats missing parts. The phase out boats are backlogged due to labor shortages, and might expediently become parts boats until the actual phase out is started. Then you must to hope the surveyor notices (or you notice) that a trim piece , screw cover or pot retainer is missing so it can be replaced during phase out. Also, phase out rarely if ever happen on schedule. The particular base my boat came from was backlogged 6-9 months and HQ kept sending more boats for phase out from other bases that were even more backlogged. The charter base staff are overwhelmed and trying to please everyone (buyers, charterers, owners, management). It’s a high pressure situation and I feel badly for them. They live in paradise but work very hard under a lot of stress.
If you need a boat delivered on a schedule don’t even think about it!
Also, theses boats are equipped with everything they normally supply for charters (pots, dishes, silverware, bedding, towels coffee maker etc. However they are not equipped for extended cruising and they’re sold without a dinghy. There are some videos on TH-cam about what it takes to convert an ex charter boat to a good cruising boat. E.G. Dinghy, Solar, lithium batteries, new canvas and running rigging, water maker, AIS, radar etc. (also spares and tools). Many of the Caribbean islands have good resources for this, and Saint Martin is one to consider because the parts are much cheaper than elsewhere in the islands. You can also ship parts, materials and your tools from the states without duty if declared as “parts for a yacht in transit “. Google that phrase for more info
If the boat was already registered as a US flagged boat it’s easier to transfer it to a US registration. Otherwise you should hire a documentation agent and an import agent. You can do either of these without an agent but if you mess up it adds stress and months of delay.
(Edited for grammar and clarity) Read more in my comment below
Great information for those going this route. So many potentially unknown or hidden expenses and so many delays that also equal expenses in this process.
Great "rubber meets the road" insights... THANK YOU !
to add to my post above - the dates the broker puts in the contract are BEFORE delays. They tell you as the commitment dates approach that they need to extend it. They delayed mine 3 times and we revised contract each time. The 4th time I was already on the island and had shipped $14k worth of personal gear and parts to the base (which had no room to store it). After that they delayed me 3 more times by a week each time, while I racked up Airbnb charges. It would have been very costly to walk from the deal at that point and I wanted the boat more than I wanted to be without one, so I worked with them but it sucked. They finally moved us aboard another boat at no charge for the last week before we were ready. We closed and moved aboard, but it took another week to resolve other issues we found (e.g. refrigerator issue and a door not working properly). To their credit they did try to please us, but it didn’t compensate for incidental costs stemming from the delays.
Would I buy out of charter again? Not if I have other choices. While you can get a good deal on a boat that has "good bones" there are other drawbacks such as those noted in the video, and the buying experience sucks. Furthermore, you can't believe the charter company's claims about when the boat will be available, and it's a more expensive buying process.
@@1sailfast WOW... Based on what you are saying they sound terrible whoever they are ? IMO Sounds as thought they "have done this dance" with others most likely ⁉ Easy MANIPULATING people who have not walked down this "dark alley" before.... Thank you for getting the word out ! FREAKING SCUMBAGS if done intentionally - IMO it is hard for me to believe they dont know what they are doing creating expenses and costs and stress for buyers ⁉ The poor average buyer has no idea what a "nightmare" they are likely walking into.
thanks so much for sharing your experiences!
I have been involved with the charter business in the US and BVI for 20 years. First hurricane damaged boats are still being sold off. The bad ones were totaled out by the insurance companies. This is usually disclosed. I have a former Mooring 43 ft boat for 7 years. When purchased it had 3100 hrs on the yanmar engine. Today 7000 hrs. Maintenance is key. Spend the money and see the boat before buying it. Line up two or three boats to see. Recommend looking at the BVI and St Martin charter bases.
Nice! We picked up our Jeanneau SO 49i from a Turkish Charter company known for their up keep, actually that's why they are 1# in turkey, they even varnish interior companion way stairs if it needs it. We got it a year ago, gave it a compound and polish, replaced standing rigging for insurance ($8K) new batteries ($2K), new cutlass bearing, bottom paint, replaced one of the refrigerator compressors, replaced the water drinking filters, engine oil, engine coolant flush, transmission fluid, adjusted alignment on the motor to shaft coupling, replaced running rigging, purchased an outboard, and picked up a down wind cruising chute! We picked it up on sight after flying in for survey and now chartering it ourselves during the summer, and exploring the Med in the off season. oh yeah forgot to mention, better ground tackle is a must!! more Chain and at least a Rocna is required!! If you get a survey out of the water, you should be good, there were minor cosmetic dings here and there on the deck gelcoat that we patched up quick, also there was interior dings here and there so you can expect the same but they are relatively easy to fix. I think the hard part for most folks in the US & Canada would be the distance, then shipping it or hiring a captain to bring it home. My last recommendation is if you do plan on doing that make sure you get any work requiring any labor done outside of the US and Canada as labor rates a a fraction of US for anything "Marine" related... for example to replace all cockpit teak here in Turkey was quoted at $4200 Euro, in the PNW USA, it would be around $25,000 USD!
have your surveyor check the hull closely, check for signs of a grounding, look for stress cracks around the keel bolts etc. Last note is that these Charted boats do not usually come with AIS or Radar, so keep that in mind for extra $$ you may need to spend. ;)
What's the charter company name?
Yeah what's the name of the company...!
It would be very interesting because of my plan to buy a boat in this region)) Can you please share?
Name of the charter company please?
I had a great experience buying a phase out from the Moorings almost 10 years ago...25k sea miles later, no regrets.
Timely video. I'm going with some friends, in the not-too-distant-future, to charter a Beneteau from Moorings in the BVI, and part of the point of that is to check out the boats, and see if I'd be willing to buy one, when Moorings offers 'em. And, yes, my plan would involve buying a boat and *staying* in paradise with the new-to-me boat, so inspection and delivery are, you know, part of the plan; I'm what's being delivered to paradise, rather than hauling the boat back to the regular world.
Check out my other comments about this video
Hi Tim, fascinating topic ... I have nothing against charter sailing ships but, having sailed for over twenty years with charter sailboats, I know what most of those crews need. Many berths (to lower the cost per capita ...), little attention to the use of the boat (you pay the insurance ...), and coastal cruises (Caribbean, Virgin Islands, Bahamas, Greece, Croatia, ...). Now, those who are about to buy their own boat to sail for a long time and/or live aboard for many months each year, do not have any of the requirements listed above. Therefore the problem with most charter boats is not the quality of the boat (... even if many are almost thought of as "disposable" ...) or the maintenance but, it is simply that they are not suitable for private use as a couple, sometimes with children or friends. That's it, from my point of view. Thanks for your exciting videos
Great video.Currently the owner of my second Sunsail boat. Both Beneteau. Cruised the first for six years after i owned it while it was in the sunsail fleet, BVI. When they finish charter they are not pretty dock Queens. Sunsail speck out the boats from the factory with what they feel will be the most robust options So rarely do you see things like in mast furling. If you plan on using the boat as a pretty dock queen look elsewhere. However if you plan on cruising there are great platforms to add your personal touches. My Buddy with whom i cruised the islands with for six years bought a 2006 Beneteau which was a dock queen. He had 56 hours on his engine i had 5000 when it finished its charter life. I had significantly less engine trouble. PS Rent a sister boat to what you plan on purchasing. Money well spent.
Good reply. I think you are spot on about engine hours. I'd rather have too many than too few...as long as they have followed the maintenance. I chartered a Bene 41 in the San Juan's that I would buy in a heartbeat, but it was "Owner ownded" and chartered when he wasn't using it.
My friend bought a hobie 16. Former rental. We took it out in good wind and broke it in half. Broke under the mast.
A mile off Key West Smathers Beach. Rescued by Cuban wood fishing boat w/o a ladder or platform in 5 ft seas. Actual Cubans couldn't land so they dropped up about 200yrds from White street pier.
The Hobie was obviously broken before we got it.
We were about to make the tack that would have challenged it. But collapsed before we could turn.
Rental boats. Watch out.
In my experience - they have been technically in very good condition. A motor boat I looked at had 5000 hours on it, but usually those engines would normally require a heavy overhaul after 2000. But it had constantly been maintained and repaired, so it was probably good for a much longer time.
Same with pretty much every other mechanic installation on the boat.
The issue is that the hull and interior was very worn. The hull was intact, but boy that thing had a lot of scratches and impacts.
So generally I would trust that the boat would work, but it was almost a full restoration to get it looking like a boat I would want to call my own.
Another good video-- but I would disagree with the charter mantainance point. I chartered 15 times with the BVI Moorings/Sunsail/Footloose and mostly they only maintained on an emergency basis. They only took care of issues when they had to and if they were even informed by the guests leaving. Virtually every boat had things wrong with it that annoyed us. I felt that the boats aged very rapidly compared to the U.S. Also it will likely be important for the new owner to find a reputable smaller local charter company to maintain the boat or a marina to dock the boat when you are gone. There will be a lot to work out when you take ownership. Still, it can be a good avenue.
Good info in an enjoyable format as usual Tim. Looking forward to catching up on my backlog of your work over the winter months.
Excellent commentary on buying an ex charter yacht, as a skipper of hired charter yachts in the Mediterranean for over 20 years if did toil with the idea of buying my own charter yacht and doing my charters with my own yacht, but never eventuated, as my formula was running smoothly, based in New Zealand most of my clients were from NZ and Australia, my package included airfares, hotels, yacht charter incl most food and expenses during a 21 day charter usually from Athens to Rhodes visiting 14/15 Greek Islands, so my 40 years of skippering yachts was what my clients trusted me with when they booked on one of my trips. The other key factor was encouraging groups of friends up to 4 couples on 50+ foot charter yachts, each with own cabin and en-suite,this worked really well for many years, so the idea of buying my own yacht in the Mediterranean was not really an option. Thankyou for the opportunity to explain my experience. Kind Regards Alan Inglis
You make some good points. The charter business has been such a driver of boat sales, that I think some manufacturers now specifically designing boats with the charter market in mind. If they can save $20k and make the vessel a little less heavy duty, that's going to be ok for the charter company because their boats only need to last 5 years and will never see blue water conditions (in the rental period). I have heard this as a possible reason why the Lagoon catamarans had insufficient bulkheads. Those bulkheads were likely fine for coastal sailing in gentle conditions, but were quickly overwhelmed when sailing in heavier weather offshore.
Also, charter boats are designed for short term living, like a hotel. Typically they have less storage and more cabins than a live a board boat will. If you're going to be living in it for months or years at a time, you might want to address that.
One channel here on YT bought their last boat from a charter company. He discussed it on a video on their channel. He didn't feel the process was a good process and stated he would not do that again. Perhaps his experience was not the normal.
Well, the charter cats from Leopard are delivered on their own hulls, as in sailed from SA to wherever, across the ocean.... So there's that... Mine's done quite well on the open ocean as well... BVI to Florida, to Virginia...
@@edwardnigma2216 Robertson and Caine have done well with making their boats seaworthy. The Lagoons have not.
Thank you for making these videos. Very informative and you seem knowledgeable.
Great information! Looking around for our forever boat. You're giving us a lot to think about, really appreciate all you share, thank you so much
Hello mister, youbare 100% right. In addition, I would like to say that, buying a sailboat is not an investment, is just a leisure asset. Thank you and happy sailing😎
If I had to do it again, I'd probably pay a little extra and avoid the moorings experience... Bought a used cat from em a little over a year ago... Made an offer in July 2021, was accepted, boat was supposed to be ready to go by Jul 12th so I could head south for the remainder of the hurricane season. Long story short, the boat wasn't ready until December for (insert lame excuse here) on account of the "phase out" stuff. I ended up going to the Moorings in the BVI for two weeks because I was tired of the excuses and pissed that they kept putting off the repairs. That said, I got a Leopard 48, for $370K and have had to put roughly another 75K in to it so far to fix all the stuff that their guys didn't get right during the phase-out..
The boat is currently hauled out in Virginia for some repairs to the portlights (Converting em from the ones that are on a 12 week backorder to standard lewmars) and a crack in one of the keels and a window (Happened during the haulout?). I'm not terribly happy with the whole ownership experience so far, as it's basically been in a repair shop since I've bought it for one reason or another... Kinda sucks, but at the end of the day, it'll be a hell of a boat for under $500K.. If I can deal with the long, drawn out, annoying as shit process for getting the boat in decent shape.
Well thought out presentation. Thanks. I have been a sailing instructor for a fairly large sailing school and yacht charter/sales outfit. I think that you have presented some solid advice. I think that purchasing a charter boat makes best sense if you can start cruising on location. Saves a lot of money and time. And you’re off! I can confirm what you stated. Yes, the boats will have accelerated cosmetic wear. But our boats were well maintained. And yes, down time is very bad for business. And your own survey is very important. If you can’t use it right away, not so good cost wise. One of the biggest advantages is that…………you are already at the best cruising grounds that so many spend lots of time and money to get to.
LOVE the new digs...
Im down in NZ & have bought 3 ex charter boats over the years & You are spot on with the owner leased ones 5 - 7 years old .. All ways in great nick , maybe & up grade in Plotter/Radar , Full engine service , later down the track better sails But over all no problems for a 50% discount .
Awesome content as always
lovin the shelves idea!
Great episode Tim!
👍🏼 another great episode 👍🏼
Interesting points here. Great video!
Thanks again!
most informative, thank you.
Everything looks and sounds perfectly fine
I'm in process of buying one of the charter boats listed in the Moorings. The largest issue so far has been the amount of time it takes for the vessel to go through the 'phase-out' period. The boat was otherwise in generally good condition as you alluded to.
Thanks for this subject.
Great video man
Thanks for the video! this was quite informative. I have always understood that buying any second hand boat largely depends on how much time and money that you are willing to spend on getting the boat seaworthy and safe. This of course is hugely dependant on a surveyor who is able to identify all the hidden issues that will bite you in the ass in the short term.
I love all your videos you’ve done. Great information.Just getting interesting in sailing and still a few years out to buying a cruiser. Dreaming to leave Manitoba winters behind for warmer waters to scuba dive in. 👌🏼👍🏻👍🏻
Thanks Tim I really appreciate your knowledge and speaking voice and am in the market at the moment and will take your advice on board (excuse the pun ). Best from Australia, regards, Tony
Another great video.
Great video 😊
Tim, let me congratulate you on the new Lady K studio.
I've been a fan of your podcasts for a while, but while watching earlier shows I sometimes thought, damn, is Tim doing this from a jail cell?
There's a Beneteau that's in the charter fleet near me that cosmetically looks like its been to hell and back. Sailed hard and put away wet. buyer beware!
My main thing that was not covered her is the question "what do you want to do with the boat" Charter boats are built to a specific format that means they have lots of luxury accommodation below and large spaces on deck which is great if you are island hopping some tropical paradise. On the other hand they are usually restricted to a specific small inshore sailing ground so don't need or have any equipment for passage making. Often the design and build quality is not suitable or may be unsafe for even a moderate offshore or ocean passage. So If you want to basically 'do charters' but on your own boat they may be ideal. On the other hand if you may have plans to visit the Bahamas, go up the east coast or through the canal you may find you have a boat which, at best, needs a ton of money spending on it and likely CANNOT be adapted for passage making.
Super information
Thanks for watching!
You would have to believe that there will be a lot more hours on the motor as well. That being said, great idea for this video. Well done my friend.🤓
Yes, excellent point that should have been brought up in the video. The beginner sailors and the lazy sailors will motor most of the time. If the weather is not ideal for sailing, too much wind or not enough wind, they will motor. I would guess after 5 years chartering, the motors life is down to 25% remaining (or less if not properly maintained with oil and oil filter changes along with fuel filter changes ahead of schedule). Many of these engines (with vacation captains) have gone through multiple over-heating cycles. The engine may look clean and pretty and new but it could be dying inside. You better have some big bucks set aside for that new engine cost PLUS install at Island prices with Island lead times. All the travel expenses and buying expenses and risky inspection expenses PLUS the new motor costs in the near future can start to eat away at the "good deal" of a charter boat. Thanks Captain K for a great video.
@@timhardman4764 IMO lots of hours on a new diesel is better than fewer hours on an old diesel.
Engines like to be run regularly. The oil in an engine that sits gets moisture in it and turns acidic.
Thank you, all good points. I will add engine. High hours, good maintenance and probably no skippers desire to extend its lifetime as much as possible.
One more thing you didn't mention, on the Bavaria 41 boat from 2018, it might only be used maximum 3 years, 2 years not used at covid restriction in 2020 / 2021 so then this is a good deal, 3 years used for a good price
Great presentation as usual. Croatia has lots of charter boats for sale. It seems like they keep them for 8 or so years before selling. The prices are very cheap. I would like to hear your opinion about this.
The old ones are more expensive than seems reasonable because they were built to last a lifetime.
Where the new ones are engineered to last a precise amount of time.
I’m ok with charter boat and it might be what I will buy. I did charter boats several time and they are not properly maintain. The smaller the base, the less maintenance boats receive. Proper surveys is mandatory.
As a postscript, I would point out that my comment is based on experience of large U.S. owned charter companies, I don't want to bash every charter company out there. In the U.S. it's always profit first, and no concern to the future ! Cheers.
U Dà Man! Cleveland loves ya!
Audio is fine
Perfect timing
I just did a hatch today with the dow795. How long did you wait before pulling off the tape after applying the silicone pls? Thanks
This is food for thought. Agree, a survey is always necessary. I'd be worried about previous hard groundings on a charter boat. If you want a Beneteau-type momohull, this is probably a good idea. Dollar for dollars, a new boat (like a car) is never a good investment.
Yeah you forgot to say something about the engine hours sometimes they’re quite a bit lower and some boats I thought about that but getting it back to Northern California might cost a small fortune but could be a hell of an adventure…
Having bought an ex charter boat myself I can say from my experience that while they may service the yachts promptly they bodge anything they have to! But otherwise good info. John & Sandra SV Knot So Bad
Tim,
I'd like your honest opinion on wooden boats. I know glass last forever but the look of some wooden classics is breath taking. But, is it worth the risk?
Zeke
I’m going to Grenada for sailing week end of January. There for 10 days. Will be looking for a 10-20 year old 40 ft
Hey Tim - I am deep is sailboat day dream land but a long way from actually pulling the trigger. 😊 I am inclined to consider your opinion “expert” so am wondering why, in this video about buying a charter boat, you made no mention of engine hours. Am I giving this aspect too much weight?
Always enjoy your videos and thanks for putting them out there. Tim from Long Island, NY 👍😊
Great video. Would you happen to have any names of charter companies that sell their boats?
To many berths are often the skip reason. Charters that works, but for single or couple. Not need 5 berths.
Just like the comment below I'm moving to Rio Dulce, Guatemala next June (after my youngest graduates high school). I'm planning to hang out, enjoy a few beverages and wait for the deal of a lifetime.
Your channel is invaluable, Tim. Thank you so much. I'll be participating much more in all your media when I have that time on my hands. Many moons ago I was working in the Caribbean and married a cute Vietnamese New Yorker . We worked on a boat together. Great fun but I wasn't signing the cheques.
I looked at seven cruising boats for sale in Rio Dulce, last year. Found that they had all been listed for at least two years, deteriorating all that time and hadn't had a major refit in over a decade. Passed on all of them. You are looking for a needle in a haystack when looking for a boat worth buying.
@@stephenburnage7687 Yes, I've run into exactly the same problem. Except the ones I've looked at have been on the hard for closer to FIVE years. As I say, I wont be in any hurry. Boats don't seem to fly off the shelf in Guatemala. Lol
@@bharris968 And its not just a question of money. Anyone of these boats are going to require a minimum effort of two years, to get them into cruising condition.
@@stephenburnage7687
Yeah, no. I was down there earlier this year and met a ton of world sailors and loads of Guatemaltecos working in Nana and Ram (I'm bilingual). I've kept in touch with lots of them and am just planning on making Rio my home base. I've heard about boats for sale from the Bahamas to Panama. Once I get there I'll have time to fly anywhere. I'm not limiting myself to anything.
@@bharris968 Good luck with the search. I like Rio Dulce as a base. We are still on the Pacific coast (visited there by driving over from Bahia del Sol, El Salvador) but plan on being there by this time next year. Have to do the canal first.
I need one of those "Not The Commodore" shirts for my brother. He's in his second consecutive year as Commodore of our yacht club and I want to get one as a gift to present to him at the change of watch ceremony. Where can I get one?
Great information!! I am currently in the Islands boat shopping as we speak for either an older cruiser or an ex charter. I found a fully kitted 2008 sun odyssey 42 DS that I am interested in! Also if you want a leak on a very cheap island packet 38 if you are handy let me know!
Ahoy! Where's that island packet?
@@jeffhidalgo8457 Puerto rico, guy wants it gone fast fast but it needs a loadddd of work... I want something ready to move aboard so it was not for me. I bet it could be had for under 40k or maybe less... was listed at 55
@@jacobmajors3021,
Thanks, I'm looking for less of project boat.
Cheers Jeff
I would proceed with great cautuion.
This is a vessle for hire, and for light duty use only. Yes, you can get a new(ish) boat for far less money, but the reality is you're going to spend what you initially saved for all tne "deferrred' mainenence to bring the vessle up to a point where you can use it without half the systems being inoperable. The maininence by the charter companies is always "just enough" to get the boat out for the next charter. It's always a short term view. You could call it "Band Aid" maininence, just enough to keep the renters from shouting that this, or that doesn't work. Mooring and the like have no incentive to perform proper, long lasting work; why should they when the vessle will be someone elses problem in five years?
There's an old saying in aviation, which applies to boats also; you can spend more money up front, and have little to do to the vessle, or spend less up front, and then spend the balance shortly after. Either way you're going to come out at the same point. Do you want to spend months and months fixing and replacing things? Maybe your time is endless; for me, my time is better spent in hours I'm paid for, and I'd rather be cruising than working smelly fibreglass, rotten witing, or my arms wrapped arounf a greasy engine.
I realise everyone's situtaion is different, but it's important to understand these boats are cheap for a reson, one way on another you're going to pay for that discount, time, money, or probably plenty of both! The other factor is the buying process. With a charter company it's very much
"their way, or the highway" The process is arduous to say the least, time delays are of little concequence, and thay have a habit od
of "borrowing" parts off a phased out boat to keep another one in charter. Those parts don't always get replaced before the sale date, and it can turn into an argument, always resulting in delay, or a void sale contract; then you have to start again, more time.
I'm not saying never do it, but if a price is too good to be true, there's going ti be a reason. Value your time, the extra stress, and the exra complexity of getting that boat to where you want it.
I suppose you could say "there's no free lunch". Just go into it with your eyes open. It's no different to buying a very high mileage rental car. It may be only a few yeras old, but those are hard years.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Captain Stroppy (at large)
Can you do a video on buying a boat to put into charter?
I just see a Beneteau Forban mk2 at 6.900€ the bad parte it's that they sell it on Spain peninsula and I live on Canary Islands (My country, Spain it's so much funny I need to pay importation tax for move the ship from Spain to Spain, peninsula to Islands) the total will be around 9.200€ (only taxes, professional skipper or container transport don't included and port price either). It will be a good buy?
Obviously, there's a bit of risk & effort involved, but they sure are pretty boats. It would be nice to hear from folks who've purchased used charter boats, to get their perspectives & advice.
Check out "The O'kelleys" on youtube. They bought a cat that was a charter boat about 4 years ago and refitted it. They do a good job of telling you the pros and cons.
I ❤️ ⛵️
@ladyksailing
Love the background but why is there not a Canadian flag too?
With covid , this would be the time to buy a charter boat , the last couple of years there was a lot less use.
Good point....maybe. I don't have any statistics on this, do you? It's possible it could be just the opposite but you are probably correct.
hey, the discord link is invalid. Could you post a new one here or update the description so I can join :)
You didn’t mention engine hours. How many hours should we expect to find? Charter guests are always in a hurry and they need to run the engine for power. Averaging 1 hour per day would get us to 1500 hours in 4 years. At 2-3 hours a day we get to 3000-4500 hours.
Could you do a video on double hull voyaging canoes?
If it flys ,floats or fucks lease it through an LLC
My daughter has a problem with asthma. So here is my question. Do rental companies have a non smoking policy on their boats? Using an ionizer is not an option for various reasons
Take a cat or a dog home and stop bleaching your house clean. Asthma will go away after a while.
Tim, the discord link is expired. Can you update it with one of those permanent ones?
I think a charter fleet would be better maintained then a private vessel
Dude you just triggered my “Alexa” and woke the house up 🤦♂️lmao
You didn’t mention a very important thing in my opinion which is use of the engine at low rpm and no load to charge batteries = high engine hours. that’s all bad for the diesel Engine So you have a fairly new hull with an engine that’s probably has at least 3000 hours.
Title: Don't buy....
Conclusion: *Do buy*
I think that rather than spend money and stress on maintaining a boat, I will instead fly to a different part of the world each time, cruise around in a new ish boat, and hand back the keys to go home. For my needs, this is better than ever owning anything.
This channel is more for people who want to cruise long term
I see how charter boats are operated. Don't buy a charter boat. Ever. They destroy them
How do banks feel about financing these?
Can I get an ex charter like 34fr for under 100k??
I am curious. At the start of the video, you state charter companies aren't invested in a boat they are only going to have for 5 years, and so do not take care of it like an owner/operator will. That's a downside to charter boats. Then for the rest of the video you are stating that they have full time staff employed to perform all the maintenance and keep them running tip top as they don't sit neglected at a dock like many non charter boats.
So which is it. Are they MORE or LESS maintained than a boat of the same age that was non-charter and owned by the average owner.
I want to fight you against memory foam, they are not good, not enough ventilation IMHO
Get that VinWiki shirt out of the dryer and put it on for the next video, my friend!👍
This is not accurate bought a 38 Beneteau charter 1991. The boat is outstanding. Overbought stainless steel rod rigging amazing. Just have a good survey.
Dude, lol, never recommend chopping up a memory foam mattress. My wife works for a mattress manufacturer and they are made with hazardous materials...obviously they are perfectly...that is until you start chopping them up lol. Every mattress has to pass extensive safety guidelines to be sold legally, when you cut one up you release fiberglass everytime you lay on it those particles puff up into the air you breathe. Super dangerous.
Absolutely never, ever, cut a mattress up...just like you'd never ever visit chernobyl without radiation equipment...just because you can't see it doesn't mean it's not dangerous!
Also, love your videos lol!
@*Uncle Joe* sorry fella it just doesn't work like that. There are lots of different foams that are constructed with different materials and once the fibers have been disturbed that's it...done...the mattress is not safe. Every time ypu sit on it you disturb the fibers and breathe them in. For real, there are crazy laws (but not so crazy) that my wife's company has to adhear to for each mattress they produce.
@*Uncle Joe* ah no problem! It is often all too easy when reading a comment online to take a defensive stance... and I'm glad you didn't read mine that way! I am just living with my wife who is heavily involved with, quite frankly, an enormous mattress manufacturer here in the USA so things like this stick out to me lol. We are all doing far more dangerous things in our lives for sure lol!
I will never sleep on a non-memory foam bed again
Yeah but agree 100% as long you sail high latitudes, otherwise you will COOK ?
@@dickenscider7328 next years TEMPUR-breeze will provide 12 degrees of cooling. They are expensive but last a very long time. Our current mattress is 12 years old and doing great (does not have breeze). I am a big guy and normally high quality mattress start to sink/flatten on me after about eight years.
Tony & Susan here, we think Elon knows what he is doing. HaHa The proof is in the performance. And yes we are looking but never would have considered a ex-charter until now.
For my needs I don't ever see a charter boat being an option. I am sure there are plenty of people who this option is a perfect choice though.
If one of y'all wanna buy me a charter boat I'd be just fine with that
As a former yacht broker who's chartered in the BVI's and St Thomas/St Barts frequently, I believe you've overlooked several key disadvantages to buying a charter boat. Our rule of thumb was at least 2:1, to as high as 3:1 in terms of degradation of charter boats vs. their privately owned counterparts kept in the the North East. So a 5 yr old boat would virtually never be worth as much as a similarly maintained boat up north, but rather priced much more like a 10 yr old boat or older. The level of sun damage to every component on a boat in the tropics is significant. The level of penetration of very warm water into hulls is also a major concern and even today under water line moisture tests tell the tale. The warmer the water the greater the threat of osmosis, and the 12 months a year usage down south only makes this even worse. Finally, it's not uncommon for charter boats in the Caribbean to be fitted with a shorter rig than boats sent to private owners in the north especially. The prevailing wind is much higher in the Caribbean vs. say Long Island Sound, Mass Bay, Bay of Maine, Chesapeake Bay, San Diego, Seattle, Oregon, and even most of the Great Lakes. This equates to having an inappropriate level of sailing performance trying to sail a chopped down charter boat rig in the predominately light air regions named above. This is not something that can be fixed short of entirely blowing up the purchase budget. Even if you don't consider yourself a "racer" or even care about "performance" this can be very, very frustrating and will almost certainly be an issue at re-sale time. Every year boats get quicker, more agile, better handling, far more so than automobiles for example. The mantra that "A fast voyage is a safe voyage" is well over 150 yrs old and very true even with shorter weather wind reporting. Buyers want newer boats due in part to their greater pace, and a former charter boat in a typical light air sailing region stuck permanently with a short rig is going to be an issue with most buyers. Too many local boats with regionally appropriate rigs are out there.
Was surprised Tim didn't bring this aspect up, but I would say the two biggest issues with buying a charter boat are not the cosmetic wear and tear and the location, but the cosmetic wear and tear and the hours on the engine. As good as marine diesels are, a charter boat's diesel is going to have 4-5 times the hours on it as compared to a regular cruiser of the same age While marine diesels can easily go 5000 hours or more before an overhaul, you are so much closer to that threshold when you buy a charter boat. Plus, the quality of diesel fuel found in the tropics is generally crap, so you have that additional wear and tear on the engine due to burning low quality fuel.
Great points ❗
Just so you Know Lady K Sailing Your discord Link has Expired
Sorry. It expires every few days. Should be able to find me on discord but drop me a line if you can't
I have a question and I hope for an answer?..
I am a qualified Shipwright and a Marine Engineer. Could I find work while cruising to top up funds?
Hey. The tricky part is working in other countries. You would need some kind of visa to be able to do that. But yes, it is an in demand profession anywhere the boats gather.
@@LadyKSailing Thank you..
The charter companies taking care of their vessels on the cheapest way, fastest repair time possible and as long as needed.
They want make money and the people who rent the boat are mostly rent once, than they are gone. As soon as the vessels is not profitable due outstanding overhaul and repairs, the boat gets sold. Most pictures shown on the ads actually not showing the actual vessels. Most just out of a magazine. As soon as you inspect the vessel, the truth about a misused and careless renters will shine.
Also it should be mentioned, that some people exchange/return the vessel not at the same location.
Therfore a intensive inspection below the deck and water line cannot be done properly if new guests already waiting.
Also remember where you like to go.
In Europe those vessels are not insurable and most will be double tax't.
You may get away with a British Island flag on a British insurance BUT due the Brexit ( The British no longer in the European Union) the authorities will make it very difficult to roam freely.
SCHENGEN doesn't change this fact.
Never ever a rental... NEVER.
For me,
only a privately owned and very well taken care vessel with proper documentation is the way to go.
Myself and several people I know personally got very badly burned with misused charter boats who looked immaculate and had a "good" report turned in to a nightmare at the first passage.
Be aware!!
Your "affordable" dream boat can very quickly turn in to financial nightmare.
Safe travels and all fair winds...
Thanks for the reaity check !
Thank you for that real world information. Good to know.
Your comment about "boats who looked immaculate and had a "good" report turned in to a nightmare at the first passage." can also be true about privately offered boats. Surveys don't uncover things that are hidden or latent. There are unscrupulous sellers who are private who don't disclose latent defects or prior damage.
@@1sailfast Yes, fully agree, there are always privately-offered dirt-balls out there too. BUT this post was about the far more likely challenges with buying intensely used charter boats. Based on some of the comments it is FAR worse than even the video captured or suggested .
Beware Hurricane damaged boats.
Totally abused mast and rig.and motor.
I feel i need a gun just to be in the comments section 😮😅
I would add that there are very good reasons why a charter company offloads boats when they are 5 or 6 seasons old - huge impending maintenance costs.
Also, I see in Greece, a larger charter company will buy a whole fleet of their chosen model at a large discount, make their own after-market mods and additions but put them up for sale from brand-new, i.e. for sale at a good profit sometimes even before delivery.
I bought an older ex-charter boat a few years a go and I can safely say that about the only thing on it from original was the hull and even that had had multiple repairs. They make so much money from rentals that the only important thing is keep the boat going to the point of 'more trouble than it is worth'. Do you really want to buy a boat from a company that knows a boat intimately and decides it is not worth maintaining even at their stratospheric weekly charter rates?
Really, that is the counter-argument. If you want 20-30 years of relatively trouble free life out of a boat, buy new and customise to exactly how you want it to be from the factory. It will come with a warranty and unblemished service history. By buying new, you are exchanging a 30-50% discount for an extra 10-15 years relatively maintenance-free life.
Especially if you going to retire and live aboard, the long-term economics of buying new make so much more sense than buying ex-charter and a bigger boat than you actually need. Running costs seem to be proportional to age multiplied by the cube of the length! That extra few feet you can afford by buying used will cost you very dearly in the long run.
@*Uncle Joe* Yes, the depreciating asset is another factor. However, a boat privately owned not just from new but a new model when it was bought is likely to maintain its cash value, approximately, if well-maintained. If the same model, thereabouts is still available new, then inflation makes the new price go up and the second hand price look cheaper with time. Besides, if it is the only boat you ever intend owning (until death), then it doesn't really matter :-) - just make sure you get the right boat first time!