Why Does Spec Ops the Line Work and Last of Us 2 Doesn't?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ก.ย. 2024
- So after a recent playthrough of Spec Ops the Line (an amazing video game that you guys should at the very least look into), I sat back and tried to think about why this game works and why Last of Us 2 ended up a hilarious disaster.
Then one thing led to another, and now the video is an hour long.
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Music used in this video:
Truth Revealed (Spec Ops OST)
Welcome to Hell (Spec Ops OST)
Nightmare (Spec Ops OST)
Plague Awaken Here (Pathologic 2 OST)
Submergio Viol (Sunless Sea OST)
Khan's Heart (Sunless Sea OST)
Hope is an Anchor (Sunless Sea OST)
You and Me (Last of Us OST)
Rust and Blood (Pathologic 2 OST)
You Aren't Welcome Here (Pathologic 2 OST)
Volcha'ya Yagoda (Pathologic 2 OST)
Benthic (Sunless Sea OST)
Boiny Main (Pathologic Classic OST)
Wolfstack Lights (Sunless Sea OST)
The Dreams Begin (Cultist Simulator OST)
Star Maddened Skies (Sunless Skies OST)
Warehouse Rubin (Pathologic Classic OST)
Burakh Home (Pathologic Classic OST)
Termitnik Aggression (Pathologic Classic OST)
Patricide (Pathologic Classic OST)
District Disease (Pathologic Classic OST)
Spec Ops has the better soundtrack of the two, too.
Buddy, I get what you said about Sec ops, but we the player didn't have a choice. Look at that spot and decision making moments like that in RPGs. And in the first two Fallouts. You , the player actually got to choose. And see the result. Don't use the mortar, you can't progress. And etc. It had it's intended effect.
Btw, you got yourself a new sub. So.....not to jerk myself off but Congradulationnnnnns!
Juuuuuuusst one more note: I like your sense of humor.
Chad
In Metal Gear Solid 3, killing soldiers gets thrown back in your face in the 3rd quarter of the game. A ghost boss would sends their spirits to kill you. They’ll even angrily rant at you as they get near.
I didn't know that when I played it, so I was stopped right in my tracks cuz I Couldn't beat the Sorrow. I died after walking for like 10 mins, every time. All I wanted to do was get on the Metal Gear train chronologicaly.
@@yellowcard8100 good to know
yellowcard8100 not at all, actually it’s advisable to play them in order, just like any other saga. Why?
Because the story is a complete brain f$&$ so in disorder you will be completely disoriented
Better character development and more impactful scenes like the last mgs4 boss fight with solid vs liquid ocelot.
Those are moments that are way more impactful when you’ve played the previous chronological games
@@jschuette2000 actually getting beaten by the ghosts isn't a game over, you can still exit the fight with the revival pill. You just don't get the special camouflage related to the sorrow
yeah I played all the games like that
Mulan didn’t even want to be a warrior. She did what she did because she wanted to save her old and crippled father
Wait, you mean she wasn't a Chi-gifted warrior prodigy who had to hide her innate superpowers for her whole life until she got lectured by a culturally incongruous witch? Fucking weird. 🤔
@@WolfHreda we don't talk about that monstrosity
It is so in the original Ballad of Mulan. She ended up being exemplary anyway.
@@WolfHreda genuinely hated it. I only watched because of Donnie(Ip Man) and Ron(Scorpion MK11)
@@WolfHreda I wen't to theaters for the Mulan movie. I liked it. The live action movie I'm not even going to bother seeing.
My favorite hostile loading screen quote has to be “If Lugo was still alive, he would likely suffer from PTSD. So, really, he’s the lucky one.”
Mine is "Do you even remember the reason you are here?"
You are still the good guy
I don’t even remember that one, that’s fucked up.
"The american military does not condone the killing of innocent civilians but this is not real, so why would you care?"
My favorite quote of the game
My favorite is “killing for yourself is murder killing for country is heroic and killing for entertainment is harmless
Last of Us 2: "what was that"
Spec Ops: *"Maybe i am a monster"*
Remove the *Maybe* and you are perfectly accurate.
Nah we all are
@@dean_l33 Deep down, yes.
@@riiddisbuk2496 The road to the hell is made of good intections
@@mateoreyes6921 It's actually, "The path to hell is paved with good intentions"
And it can be.
One of the best subtle details in Spec Ops is Walker throwing away his trigger discipline as things get worse. It’s literally just a finger in a different position, but it shows so much.
His voice lines change to reflect his descent too
Early game Walker:
"Cover me I'm reloading"
Late game Walker:
"EAT THIS SON OF A BITCH"
Yeah they did really well
@@CrnaStrela when reloading:
*"Ahhh this is slowing me down!!"*
Killing enemies
"Fucking traitor!!"
Oh, didn't know that, Spec Ops still find a way to surprise even after all these years.
At what point does that happen? I actually saw someone else mention this a while back and kept looking at it during another replay, but he always had it on the trigger, even in the very beginning as they were entering Dubai, without any hostiles in sight.
You could actually see how disconnected to reality Walker is in the last chapter. The fact that the building has aquariums, fountains, waterfalls, etc. is jarring knowing that THERE IS NO FRESHWATER LEFT IN DUBAI at that point.
What if someone poured salt into it before all of this happened 🤔
Only on my second playthrough for 100% did I notice all the "water" disappears after the revelation scene. The whole Walker-Konrad exchange left me too stunned to see it the first time around. Makes you wonder what hope there is for Walker -if- when he goes home, that if he doesn't face a tribunal and even if he gets the most advanced care (because he's a Delta operator), nothing could be salvaged. As said in the video, Walker going home is him inflicting the greatest punishment of all upon himself: condemning himself to a long life knowing what he's done.
@@connorpickens7523 not to mention other problems he has
Like he need a new job. I mean look at him!. Imagine being a commander and seeing one of your delta operator that you just sent for recon mission came back full of scars and a burning face, the dead eye, that catatonic movement, and he even cosplaying as Konrad. this guy has the "unfit for society" vibe all over him. His body is broken, his mind is broken. And i doubt he could take a job that require human interaction when he always look like a psycho. Not to mention his social problem.
If you just describe him to someone for his action alone then they would thought of him as a monster but really the guy is just a normal guy trying to do what he thinks is right.
Dubai isnt Hell. No the real hell is "home"
Dicky Satria
Exactly. Walker's future at home would either be jailed/executed as a patsy for the U. S. affairs in Dubai (if Riggs and the CIA were right), or he'd be deemed unfit to stand trial and he'd spend the rest of his life in a care home, reliving his mistakes in the desert over and over until he dies. Hell, that'd make a half-decent theory for why things are so surreal in the game: You're seeing it replayed through the mind of a broken man unable to do anything but regret and self-loathe.
Holy shit, I never realised that before
The worst part is that your original orders weren’t to look for survivors. Your original orders were to leave the city and radio for evac
It’s called ptsd logic
He wanted to be hero, but does he feel like hero now?
You can literally abort the mission by quitting. An unofficial secret ending.
Was it?
It's the whole moral dilemma of "neutrality vs. intervention."
On one hand we could follow orders to the letter and have that "bystander" mindset, turning our backs on the critical situation at hand... or take the initiative and do something right at that moment, and end up being blindsided by the rabbit hole we've gotten into (as we know it in the game).
I really love when the tips on the loading screen in Spec Ops turn into psychological and philosophical questions. "Do you feel like a hero yet?" and my favorite "The US army does not condone killing unarmed personnel. but these aren't real, so why should you care?"
I remember my husband telling me about those and how it’s one of his favorite games. I still don’t know if I can play it because I’d probably cry.
@@ElleDeas That's a great reason why you _should_ play it
I didn't like them because they felt way too much on the nose.
@@charlie1234500 that's top level storytelling
@@charlie1234500 maybe because they struck a nerve within you or challenged your biases
00:50 "I believe Video Games can be an art form that can tell stories...."
**shows minecraft nazi concentration camp**
Where's the link to that video? I wanna know the full context of that... scenario, let's say.
*ART*
@Lucas Gonzalez , I wanted to build a farm, but you built Auschwitz
@@Butter_Warrior99 don't you hate it when you want to build a farm but your homie made Auschwitz?
@@YataTheFifteenth , And confuse the German empire flag with the Nazis.
Tlou 2 gets so depressive at some point that they start droping super wholesome Joel flashbacks at you so you dont leave
@Ders snek in me boots the 2nd half is the best half because that's where the gameplay really amps up
Spec Ops also progressively got more depressive but the story was so good that we wanted to finish it just to see if we can end the game as heroes
@@jono_owa ye, when i walked into the tower at the end, and the 33rd soldier surrendered and told me that dubai is mine, I felt relief that i made through and one last confrontation with the big baddie who was behind all of it, and can go home... boy was I in for a surprise... at the end when the humvees arrive with the soldiers, it really made sense to me to open fire on them.
@@leonecartelreborn9628 your loss I suppose
@@leonecartelreborn9628 it's a loss...
Little detail in Spec Ops that stood out to me: After the opening on-rails sequence, when the player gains full control over Walker for the first time and goes through the cover/aiming tutorial, what is the first thing the player sees? A Stop sign.
The game is warning you before you even really start.
But narratively there is no way to stop unless you let the enemy kill you
@@dean_l33 Little did you know that the enemy in this game is actually you.
After the White Phospherus scene, you see another stop sign, bent and riddled with bullet holes.
You ignored the warning, and the warning came back to mock you.
@Ramon Borlongan You know what makes the starting phase even more unsettling? In the beginning chapters where there is billboards and ads with people on them. Next time you play. Stop and look at them. Notice how they're kinda weird?
One ad looks very close to Konrad and he's starring right at you as you approach. Another one has a man looking he had snapped and about to blow his brains out. I think theres another one featuring a woman staring at you with a "bullet hole" in her forehead.
Also, look at the children's drawings in one camp. One shows a woman getting dragged away by soldiers , another shows people burning alive, Helicopters shooting people down, Bloody guy with a gun, a kid with his face burnt off.
The loading screens get even weirder too. They go from being an overview of a chapter's environment to being someone's deranged recall of an event.
It's official, Spec Ops: The Line is cursed.
@Whywestillhere? Another note about the loading screens. They almost always depict some dark pit or abyss, sort of like the descent into madness.
Thinking back, the whole game is a descent. You’re always going deeper and deeper into Dubai, further into madness. Almost all your attempts at an ascent fail brutally
1) Walker climbs up to a door in a broken building, only to be sent crashing down into the deepest pit
2) The torture transmission, at the top of a flight of stairs, is a trap
3) The helicopter ride fails miserably and indirectly gets Lugo killed
4) The ascent into the final tower requires Adam’s sacrifice, only for walker to kill himself, embrace the madness of Dubai and go fully insane, die choking in the sand, or go home a broken man (also implied to be a hallucination)
*Do you feel like a hero yet?*
I'm pretty sure it's a law that a spec ops comment section must have someone quoting it so ill be that guy
Now we're good and legal.
"YOU LEFT ME TO DIE!!”
Ledies and gentlemen, welcome to Dubai.
Yes, I feel like a hero. Gun goes pew pew bad guys go ugh.
Doesn't matter what flag they wear.
@@Vexin980 oh shit
“the most evil people in the world often think they are doing it justice”
Just like Hitler 😔✊
"The path to hell is paved with good intentions."
@@zaer-ezart
And stalin and napoleon and mao and caesar and charlemagne
and muhammad and literally any leader with a bodycount ever.
@@feanorhighkingofthenoldor6614 Out of all them leaders only charlemagne is plausible and did best for his people. The others had evil intentions for there own greed and slaughtered and conquered there own people.
@@jackjft9654 Russians miss Stalin because he made our country powerful.
Spec Ops had 0 expectation and overdelivered
LoU2 had all the expectation and delivered on nothing.
Underpromise, overdeliver. The ultimate formula for a legendary game.
@@grod5998 Totally
@@k_kubes did sleeping dogs do that because dont get me wrong its fantastic but did that game do that or not
@@warcrimes2506 I don't know man, never played sleeping dogs
@@k_kubes its INCREDIBLE with its hand to hand combat, parkour and using cars
I like how he calls out the Mulan trope in this video with Lev, because i agree with the annoying trope of "women wanting to fight because they want to be like men". I also don't hate women being willing to fight alongside men, but when it's done in media poorly, it just comes off as stupid. Heck, Mulan in the original story didn't want to fight, she just left home to protect her aging father from being killed in combat. People seem to forget that and think it's just cool that a woman is fighting without remembering her reason for fighting.
Character motive is pretty irrelevant these days, hell character is irrelevant these days
@@ravenwhiteduck6460 yeah and in a linear storybased game where you're supposed to care about and empathize with characters, that's a pretty big problem.
@@JerryMcB3rryit's why I despise Hollyweird and it's Post Modernist Visions. They genuinely despise "Legacy" Writing and want to focus on meaningless bullshit that focuses on superficial features believing that is enough for the masses... But that isn't what a human being is, humans are very complex creatures with emotion and drive. We aren't purely black and white with simple good and evil, we're a mesh of greys and stripes as well. While darker aspects of the human condition exists, there are the brighter aspects as well. They do not exist in a vacuum alone, they blend together. Take The Line for example, they started with good intentions yet the characters descended into the darkest depths of the mind, body and soul. They feel more human than the rigid and faux interactions in TLOU2. Like damn, it felt like a pack of feral children were raised on Chinese Room theory and thrown into a set just to see what would happen, it's uncanny.
In the words of Faramir "I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend."
Far Cry 4 did the whole, "Stop the madness before it gets out of hand ending" when Pagan Min asks you to wait for him at the dinner table.
If you do, you get a secret ending where you complete your original mission of burying the ashes of your mother and Pagan Min essentially hands you over the country because it was always your birth right.
lol
Even though I like the atmosphere of Far Cry 3, I feel like Far Cry 4 is superior in story and mechanics.
Imagine becoming king of a nation in a day. Ajay is badass.
@@TheMaiztro no no. Far cry 3 was the best story.
@@EpslionBear vaas isn’t all far cry 3 had we still have Jason’s descent into madness losing himself to the jungle
Sarah's death was a lot darker and sadder then the entirety of The Last Of Us II.
If there is anything that good about tlou2 its the fact that it serves as a great comparison as to why the original tlou was so great.
@@randomserbianguy5677
Yeah pretty much.
Neil Cuntmann can't write a good story if his life depended on it.
@@OrochiJr97 maybe he can but only if being supervised like in the orginal tlou.
But yeah tlou2 was pretty bad its almost comical
@@randomserbianguy5677 Well i read somewhere in all of this Comment Thread that "TLOU2 was a Game that Neil Made based on every Ideas that had been Rejected" well now we sure that he had Some Mediocre Wattpad Romance Drama Action Dragging Shit kind of Ideas in his Head.
Good to know.
@@Azazantei lmao. Looks like it really does help having an editor or a supervisor that isn't afraid of calling out your bs
"TLOU2 is a story about right and wrong, told by people who thought they were always right."
Forgot where I saw it, but I think it sums it up pretty nicely.
Pretty sure it's the Japanese IGN reviewer who gave the game a poor score.
Pretty sure that quote was from Procrastitara's review, at least that's where I first heard it.
Ugh, gonna be painful watching TLOU2 getting goty at game awards, considering how corrupt game journalists are doubt any other game gonna make it.
yeah, sounds amazing and accurate to many real life scenarios, good game writing and premise tbh
@@crazyinsane500 Yes, because the Japanese from what I can see, luckily still understand the things TLOU2 is trying to preach about on a mature level. Revenge, cycles of violence, opressive environments, factionalism, family, bonds, character development etc.
I had a replay of the game, interestingly, at the start, there was a backstory Walker mentioned where in Kabul, Konrad saved his life, that's why Walker held Konrad in such high regards, that's why Walker didn't just walk away, he held Konrad in a view of a hero, which in turn, influenced him to want to become like Konrad, disobey orders and to become a hero to save lives. So if anyone is saying there should be an option for Walker to walk away, that point is kinda invalidated because its not part of Walker's character. He can't walk away because its Konrad, the man who saved his life and a hero to Walker.
And as you progress on, his motivation and thoughts keep on changing,
"Its a recon mission."
"Konrad would've done the same, its just the right thing to do."
"Konrad wouldn't have done this."
"Maybe the 33rd betrayed Konrad or maybe Konrad went rogue since there was infighting"
"Gould earned my trust by risking his life for me, just like Konrad once did"
"This isn't my fault."
"This is all a test by Konrad"
"This is all Konrad's fault"
I may have missed some here and there but you can clearly see how much Konrad influenced Walker's being there, how much Walker looks up to him, and then Walker's feelings of betrayal, pinning the blame on Konrad and then thinking his actions can be justified as long as he can find Konrad and exact his revenge on him for Konrad "betraying" him. And at the end, he was fully devastated when he finally learns the full truth. His character develops and slowly goes through an entire slow burn all the way till the end. He did eventually won Dubai but at a huge cost.
Ellie? She lost Joel, wanted revenge, can't be fully motivated into her revenge spree....if that's what its called. Had cold feet after her first kill, vomitted at her killing of a stupid pregnant lady and her cucky bf, and.....ABANDONS HER OWN FAMILY FOR AN ALREADY POINTLESS REVENGE NEAR THE END!!! I don't know what's wrong near the end but holy crap her character arc is a bloody disaster.
And then We have Abby.....she had a father, lost him, and also sets out on a pointless quest of revenge, endangering her new family for what? FOR WHAT BLOODY OLD MAN WHO PROBABLY ISN'T WORTH IT!!!
When you lay it out in that way, yeah, holy crap, THEIR CHARACTERS ARE A BLOODY MESS.
And someone may put a comparison between Konrad saving Walker and Abby/Ellie having their parental figures killed, yeah, good comparison but the devil is in the details as we know, Walker didn't really had much of a bigger story other than he was saved by Konrad while Abby/Ellie had a home, family and friends. If you're ever a writer and want to write something, remember, you yourself controls what the readers read, their information. If said character does something stupid and illogical based on the information given, that's a stupid character and they are all clowns. Basically, both Abby and Ellie are this, stupid characters that exist just to make stupid decisions, even after being told by their more logical side characters not to.
Also if someone says its more of a tragedy, no. You don't make a good tragedy out of stupid characters, that's a comedy. You make a tragedy based on unfortunate decisions or events.
thank you
¡Yes!
Games that are a tragedy are Hotline Miami 1 and 2
I definitely agree
Walker idolized Konrad, and Konrad idolized himself. Only reason why Konrad was in Dubai to begin with was to cope with his hero image being put into the shitter after losing Kabul.
What about afro samurai? But he still wanted to get revenge on justice even though he had friends, a lover and a master/ father figure. But i still think afro samurai is a masterpiece of a show dispite sounding like TLOU2
11:39 "Wait! She's pregnant"
Abby: "Good."
Seriously, why didn't they have her say "so was Mel"?!
Because Mel existed to die, not to matter.
cant believe you wrote dialogues that’s way better than the official ones
@@testerfox6998 that is not that high of a standard to surpass.
i think that’s what that “good” was trying to say
@@channeljohnnyYT Sure, that was the idea. So why didn't they go with it?
Last of Us 2: Humans bad feel bad
Warhammer 40k: yeah? And?
DAS WHY U PLAY ORKZ CUZ ORKZ IS BEST! WAAAGH!
HUMANITY SHOULD FEEL BAD FOR BEING THE MOST
GLORIOUS
RACE TO EIXTS! ANY OTHER WORDS ARE NOTHING MORE BUT XENO PROPAGANDA! FOR THE EMPEROR
@@agent5333 THAT SOUNDS SUSPICIOUSLY CLOSE TO HERESY
@@eggcelentrat4005
I think he is Digganob
@@Joawlisdoingfine
But... he's a Wulfen.
Phenomenal video, good to see Spec Ops the Line still getting the love it deserves all these years later.
That ending of spec ops the line is something it suck with me
Here here comrade. Love your choice of pfp.
@@soldatdaniels8738 Thx m8
@@USSAnimeNCC- stuck?
I haven’t played it but... well, I don’t think the designers even know what they’ve made. They wanted to make a game which deconstructs FPS but are also very hostile to the audience and player base.
TLOU 2: OMG you kill a dog you are the fk monster
The Line: You just kill 47 unarmed civilian? Do you feel like a hero yet?
You just killed 47 innocents? Cool. No game over. Live with it.
@@cpt.martinwalker6268bro made his whole personality on him please lock this man up😭😭😭
@@cpt.martinwalker6268It’s all Konrad’s fault really. He made you do it.
I love how The Last of Us Part II was being praised for the enemy AI reacting to their dead comrades, like it was ground breaking or something, when Far Cry 2 did it, you know, back in 2008 lol. Spec Ops The Line is great and I think it finally became a classic.
It wasn’t even all that amazing 😂 literally all they did was call out the same recycled names, like no aggression or anything tbh. At least not in my play through.
Console boys are far behind in knowledge about technology. I mean imagine getting excited for SSD's for PS5 while PC already had it for years.
And NO I'm not a PC master race advocate. I own PS4 and never bought tlou2.
hell even GTA 5 did this in 2013, I played it just today and did a gang hideout to hear them call out to each other when I killed them, I never understood why people praised that so much in TLOU2
@@peepuschrist5670 “mendozas been fucking hit”
It's nothing new
Fun fact : the farsi speakers say "We are not killers, we're american soldiers."
Ah fuck man...
I spent 7 years without that fact
No way, so all of this could've been avoided if Lugo translated better.
Fuck well shit happens
Idk why they were speaking Farsi tho, I mean that's the official language of Iran and Afghanistan not emirates
Now I feel bad for the bigot sandwiches guy
I mean he still went out of his way to make sandwiches.
@@mr.weirdness5970 Exactly. When I first played the game I had no idea what he did or what he said. Then I got the context and thought "Damn he could've just said a simple sorry but he went out of his way to make sandwiches for Ellie and even apologised multiple times. He really does feel bad and was just drunk"
But nope, "BiGoT sAnDwIcHeS"
If the game's story had any self-awareness, you would've felt that naturally from playing it, given the "everyone has their own lives and problems" spiel the game throws at you, but no. It's so heavy-handed and ardent that you have to step back from the whole thing to realize that you can't condemn a man for one drunken use of a slur after suffering God knows what in the apocalypse, especially so after he apologizes with _beef_ (apocalypse, btw) sandwiches.
Literally all Neil had to do was throw in one Ellie-Dina conversation where they realize they don't know what Seth's been through and no one would complain about the scene, and he couldn't even do that.
@@connorpickens7523 I guess it is better to hate them then to understand them.
...sadly
Ryan Abousamra
Not better. Easier. The path of the coward and the rampant ideologue.
That story about the bartender was better that the Last of Us 2's story
Ikr the narrator gave him justice as to why he's a "bigot" according to the irresponsible murdering teen
The biggot bartender fanfic is better than the actual story
In before all of the "bUt LaSt oF Us 2 wOn GaMe oF ThE YeAr" comments
did it? if so then theres has to be a mistake cuz Doom Eternal was nominated
@@chainz983 that doesnt deserve it either ghost of tsushima deserves it out of all the nominees
@@daniic5175 i wouldn't mind, if either doom or ghosts wins then thats all that matters
@@daniic5175 bruh how does doom not deserve it? it literally is the pinnacle of fps action games. Ghost of tsushima is just another open world game that will be considered outdated the moment cyberpunk drops
@@justinduck2953 uh, don't want to start a fight here but cyberpunk and GOT have totally different settings and their own thing.
The visuals for SOTL aren't the best, but did the creators nail Walker's expressions, or what? You can almost freeze-frame over the moment when his mind breaks.
You can actually pinpoint the second when his mind rips in half.
@@FriendlyDarkwraith I THOUGHT OF THAT EXACT SAME MEME LOL
That was right after they bombed the gate with White Phosphorus and they came to the pit with all the dead civilians. Right after that was when "Konrad" first started communicating with Walker through the broken radio.
Also, Nolan North as Martin Walker
And Nolan North voice acting is really on point
I'll never forget first hearing the line, "He turned us into fucking killers!" from Lugo in Spec Ops.
That scene and that line gave me chills, what a powerful scene.
Just before that when he says “This is all your fault”, he’s not pointing at Walker. He’s pointing at you.
@@ALJ9000
Control yourself now!
NOOOO!!! NOOOOOO!!!!!
Lugo is the best characther of spec ops the line
The Last of Us 1 - There are no heroes, just a few innocents. In The Last of Us 2 - There are no Heroes, and there are no innocents either, everyone is evil. Spec Ops The Line - PTSD.
“Why would it be up to Owen?”
MAYBE BECAUSE YOU’RE EIGHT MONTHS PREGNANT AND A COMPLETE LIABILITY!
Not only that, but also the ONLY DOCTOR. If you care for those people, you would make sure you are safe as they depend on you.....
No Doctor nor any medical profesional would be that irresponsible for his/her own health especially the health of others the writing in TLOU2 is the edgy equivalent of a Sat. Day morning cartoon without the irony.
Also if Owen is the father of the as of yet unborn child he has some say as to how it's to be taken care of, since going out put the child at risk as much as herself.
@@Daredhnu no u muss respeck wahmens MUH BODY MUH CHOICE
Apart from the liability, it's the typical "to-be father has no say in any matter regarding the baby" idiocy. Yes, he's not suffering childbirth, but it's still his cherished child for fuck's sake, you irresponsible loon.
“The US Military does not condone the killing of unarmed combatants. But none of this is real, so why should you care?”
That line was one of the hardest hitting ones.
Also a small detail but one that goes a long way I feel, is that as Spec Ops goes on, Walker and his team get more savage looking and their professionalism completely fades while the Damned 33rd do the opposite. The final major showdown has Walker and Adams swearing and utterly pissed at each other while they try to hold out while the 33rd are boarderline robotic with how precise they are and how almost level headed they speak.
One that got me was "how many americans have you killed today?"
@@TommyAck102 That question doesn't really work on someone who had just got done playing [Prototype] before trying out Spec Ops.
@@MachineMan-mj4gj i reckon it still does... if they were keeping count. Besides thats a totally different ball park of a game :)
@@MachineMan-mj4gj Still waiting for a sequel :(
i honestly never picked up on that. all the more reason to replay that masterpiece
Spec ops developed all its characters so subtly. Lugo went from questioning fighting american soldiers to saying "be thankful for the target practice". Even the reload dialogues. Walker goes from "cover me reloading " to "this is slowing me down" or grunting that he had to stop shooting. Even Adams starts doing the same near the end,the guy who vouched to save innocents in the start is the one who says to shoot them for what they did to Lugo
I always tries to project myself into that game ever since, wondering if I, with sufficient training the same as Delta Team, would keep justifying the atrocities I committed.
I would have back away, using pragmatic reasoning, that this shit is getting way too illegal and back the fuck up so I can go home and meet my dark skin anime waifu...why would Walker tries to keep pushing forward despite having no information on the ground is beyond me. Then I realize...
This asshole wanted to play heroes...thinking he can mimic the same thing Konrad did to him in Kabul all those years ago. He is basically Abby in all of its form and glory. Except the game dont try to force feed me "This guy is good bruv, he is an american who shoot non-american wow." This game damned him, demonized him, tell to his face "Yo bruv, this shit wrong? Can you like um..stop?"
And he doesnt go full 360 and say. "Yeah, bruv, killing bad."
No, what he says is "Bruv this cheeky american is bad yeah, I can smell their shiet twenty meters away and I know they are evil, see?"
Noticed he didnt say "I like killing blood for the blood god!" But instead tries to justifies his brutal action with heroic reasoning? This guy is delusional...and that is what him so captivating so watch.
Real life are scattered with people like this arsehole. Greater good? Yeah right, I will pretend I didnt see that death camp where you keep all the insurgent for peace and stability...
@@Iwanwahid1969 yeah, the characters in tlou2 dont seem human at all, there is absolutely no reason for ellie to not kill abby or the other named characters or feel bad about them after killing everyone else. No human acts like that, if you know that killing for revenge is bad, and you already regretted doing it, then why tf are you still doing it? Whereas with walker, the whole time he thought he was the good guy, even after burning civilians with white phosphorus. He denied his responsibility and continued his supposed "mission".
@@richenrd That ain't good character work, we're talking about whole ass subtle character development not a mere couple lines.
@@richenrdhe only character I've seen make a Drastic shift in Part 2 was Ellie herself, and ARGUABLY maybe abby. Ellie Almost ended up going down the same path as Walker, but was able to save herself last Minute.
Dina saying "Fuck this shit I'm out" isn't really character development, She's the same as she was, it's Ellie that changed.
Even the Executions going more brutal
Spec Ops The Line wanted to tell a story, The Last of Us Part II wanted to preach.
this comment should be pinned
Fact
Preach what?
@@lidaaletap2646 Preach overused tropes and storylines (including tokenism!)
No man
Last of us 2 was scared to tell while
Spec ops wasn't afraid to say what we know.
Its so weird hearing someone else say the exact same reasons why I hate TLOU2.
Nor is it not so much to hate it since in itself it is not bad the game
@@eduardosanchezvaldivia3629 eh ur talking about gameplay I guess but story just no
Idiots hate it
@Adam J. Harper yeah. So far I’m middle of the road with it (just started and the pacing is god awful, but gameplay is pretty great). I think ppl on both sides are trying to use that argument tho to justify themselves and it’s sad
yeah. i don't like it.
“It seems that reports of my “survival” have been greatly exaggerated.”-Colonel John Konrad.
Is that a Rise against reference in the game or just an incredible coincidence? "Rumors of my demise have been greatly exaggerated"?
Or maybe they made the song in reference to the game. Probably just a coincidence.
@@derpdadouch3654 Megamind
@Dan Turner Thank you for explaining that to me. Thanks for the context and have a great day, week, month, year, and life.
Flex's dead corpse
@Dan Turner interesting thank you :).
To this day, Captain Walker is Nolan North's best performance ever.
Deadpool: Am I a joke to you?
Nathan Drake: Am I a joke to you?
Richtofen: am I a joke to everyone, I even got watchmojo to apologize
Nolan North has a damn good performance all around with his characters.
Tag Der Toten's ending got me crying
I think it is a tie with nathan drake
I'm watching this now because apparently, TLOU2 is the "game of the century". I'm just here to beat the dead horse for the 50th time making sure it doesn't come back as a gay zombie.
Ok, but a gay zombie actually sounds interesting. Assuming it's done well, anyways.
A gay zombie horse 🤔
@@e5gar452 so a bronie?
Gay Zombie Horse?
I'd watch that.
@Makoto Yuki Sounds like Berserk.
If you look closer, at the end of the game of Spec Ops, where you go up to meet Conrad, that is the only time you ever ascend. Ever since the start of the game, its all downhill. You never go up.
Yooooo
Maybe like silent hill 2...you finally discovered the truth when you go up...
"Where. Is. Conrad?"
"Where he had always been - *upstairs"*
It is seriously a mind game, like how tf is there a city below after falling like a 100ft.
@@imp4ktth also the fact you go from a flat desert into a rooftop then back down without going up. Thats some good design right there.
Spec Ops II: story of a tragedy
LOU2: tragedy of a story
You can make a story where the main characters die and it can still be good. Just don’t do it because “old white man bad”
Perfect description
@@junkaccount2535 That’s not why they did it but ok
@@PetalsFourArmor that's why they did it but ok
@@PetalsFourArmor That's literally what they did, but okay.
Tl;dr: "Why does a rough gem work and a tongue-polished pile of crap doesn't?"
One was made with passion, the other was farted out and left to biased gaming sites to slather the lazy turd in sprinkles to make it sound like it's the best game ever made
I played the old spec ops games as a kid, they're about as cookie cutter an isometric shooter series as you could get. The Line is one of the most beautiful stories ever told in a video game.
I played them too, the PS1 versions. They were basically budget shovelware tbh. And I believe the reason this game has nothing in common with previous Spec Ops games (thank god) is because 2K said to Yager "you have total freedom, just do a military shooter with the name Spec Ops on it."
I didn't even know there were other games, I didn't even know there was a series.
It's actually anything but beautiful, but that's also what makes it so good
Damn I'd hate to see what ugly is to you.
How the HELL was that tangent about Seth's past, more interesting than half of the actual game??
Because the one who wrote it actually knew about human emotions
@@mustardjar3216 I wouldn't say Neil doesn't know how human emotions work.... Only that whatever went wrong in writing this game's story was the equivalent of watching a train crash in slow motion.
I think that he needs to have a co-writer that can balance him out and guide him in the right direction. Unfortunately Haley Gross wasn't that co-writer...
I was a test lead for LQA on Spec Ops: The Line. When I did the project launch briefing, I had only seen the first few minutes. I told my team, "this is gonna be your run of the mill military game with dudebros making dick jokes". Later, I remember staying in the office until late at night just to continue my playthrough. What a story! Oh, and when the year was over and Yahtzee named it his game of the year, I sent an e-mail to my liaison at 2K, asking if he'd seen this. He was like, "yeah, it's a good game!"
Pretty epic, if I say so myself.
Yahtzee from the Escapist channel? That's more for comedy then reviewing, but I guess it DOES proove this game being a masterpiece when even comedians who's shtick is being cynical all the time find it amazing
@@simple-commentator-not-rea7345 Yahtzee is actually a very influential critic and it’s very rare for him to praise a game instead of making fun of it.
@@arturzinurov4781 Yahtzee the person, I'm certain. I was more reffering to the persona he voices on Zero Punctuation. Or are you saying, and I'm really terrified of the notion, I've been watching that channel the wrong way for two years?
@@simple-commentator-not-rea7345 what do you mean? I just wanted to clarify that Yahtzee and his show are very influential. I had no intentions of saying that you are watching him wrong just wanted to shine the light on it. For example the meme of pc master race was actually originated from him.
Somebody else thought of this (if I could remember their name, I would give them credit), but it seems profound enough to share it here: _"The Last of Us, Part II_ wants to be as profound as _Spec Ops: The Line,_ but all it ends up being is the toxicly condescending talking sniper rifle from _Borderlands 2._ [gets headshot] 'Feel bad, you murderer!'"
People levied that same criticism at Spec Ops The Line, though.....
@@vidmuncher Here's the thing. With spec ops the line it's not really about "feel bad for killing these people" and more like "war isn't glorious, it's terrible, gritty, and horrifying".
The white phosphorus scene is typically debatable but honestly it does succeed what the last of us 2 fails at. Making the player and the character feel the exact same thing and it it still applies to Walker due to the fact it was HIS orders that did the deed.
My question about Last of Us 2 is: why does Ellie spare Abby? They do not communicate with each other in any positive way. Abby doesn't relate how devastating the loss of her father was to Ellie, nor explain "Hey small lesbian, I had to kill your father because he ruined my life. I am not a bad person, see all the good I do in the world? You're further ruining that, and I'm going to kill you to make it all stop."
Instead, it's Abby looking villainous, doing villainous things, having flashbacks that Ellie never discusses or takes part in the development of Abby's character. We as the player see these things, but the two main characters DO NOT. They don't have real reasons to empathize or sympathize with each other, leading to them sparing each other's lives. They don't make the good decisions because they're good people deep down. They do the good thing because the plot calls for it. If you kill Abby, you lose the game. You kill Ellie, you lose the game.
Spec Ops? Every ending is the wrong ending, and here's every single reason why Walker (and the player by extension) deserves what they get.
Revenege Bad
Someone did say that its basically the ultimate middle finger to Abby since not only to Ellie kill Abby's friends, she beat her down and was going to kill her but instead of showing something well deep or badass we got a crying Ellie cuz Joel.
@@Аянп-н5л Nah I have a breakdown cuz I finally forgive myself for missing my shot to patch things up and come to term and forgive my father
@@davso91 sounds forced as fuck
Spec ops: the Line was such a damn good game, the story was amazing, and the ending is harrowing and extremely well done.
I never really got why walker called for a rescue and proceeded to kill the soldiers that came to rescue him
@@dababy5445 I thought that was one of the endings you can choose? Or is that Canon?
@@skarin9871 The "canon" of the game's writers is everything after the helicopter crash is just walker's near death experience.
You can interprete it how you like though.
needs a remake or remaster for the PS4 tbh...
Pretty sweet that there's no real "good ending" to the game. It just ends. Sure you have the option to prove your badassness by not being an hero and taking out a squad with an auto shotgun, but there's really nothing good that comes from this story.
Fun fact: in spec ops, after the cutscene when walker picks up the radio, if you take a moment to look around, you'll find a list of kia soldiers (killed in action). If you give it a good look you'll see the names of adams and lugo on it, putting into doubt all of the events up to that moment.
I thought Adams survived
@@frank8917 No, Adams died in the final fight against the 33rd
Poor bastard
Lol you know I first thought you said Ikea soldiers
@@farkbett699 Actually no he survived. There was originally a DLC planned where you played as Adams and it showed you how he fought and escaped from Dubai. But due to poor sales it was cancelled. But still, in the canon, he survived
TLOU2 was the exact story I would write if I actually hated the fans of TLOU and wanted them to suffer. It felt like a spiteful desecration of something that Druckmann envied.
Sounds like what Rian Jonson pulled with The Last Jedi after people criticised Force Awakens for being nothing more than a face value retread
But Neil Wrote the first game too, which makes his choices even more baffling....
@@tomebasic2843 for some reason, I was under the impression they'd fired one of the original writers. Not sure why.
@@nicedayright4064 You are thinking of Amy Henning, but she never worked on TLOU, she wrote the Uncharted series. But don't worry, once Neil got to the top of the company and fired Amy Henning, he decided to ruin Uncharted too. But the first TLOU proves that Neil can actually write great stuff when his head is not stuck up his own damn ass and when story telling doesn't take a backseat to his politics, I just don't understand why he would do what he did, TLOU 2 plays out as if he hates the characters that made him sucessful...
@@tomebasic2843 that genetic compulsion to bite the hand that feeds surfacing I guess.
"Why Does Spec Ops the Line Work and Last of Us 2 Doesn't?"
because ones a game and the other is the last of us 2
Nah more like:
Because one’s actually emotional with souls put into it, while the other is just a half assed interactive movie game.
TLOU2 is more like a movie than a game, honestly Dragon’s Lair feels more like a game.
@Jack Ruffle People can absolutely hate the game, everyone has their own opinion, but NOBODY should send a voice actress death treats over voicing the main villain of the game. That’s just straight up disgusting and despicable behavior, and those people who did that are no better than Neil Drunkmann. Speaking of which, why Laura Bailey, when she barely had anything to do with the game other than voicing ma’am? You should attack Neil Drunkmann instead; he’s the one responsible for this game’s existence.
@@dylancross1039 yes
www.shacknews.com/article/119026/last-of-us-2-voice-actor-laura-bailey-shares-death-threats-on-twitter
Spec Ops had a point to make and was fairly clever in how it did it. Last of Us 2 was the equivalent of a preachy narcissist that thinks it knows something about the weight of revenge.
@@seenl6eight258 ooof, those are third degree burns, man!
“The greatest evil is one that doesn’t even understand that their own actions are evil”
Where’s that from?
Is this from stone ocean?
@@vovabars1234 bingo
@@vladimirlestrad3120 basicaly from same thing your pfp is lol
"5 or 6 Hundred more severed heads would have assured your Repose, Freedom and Happiness"
- Jean-Paul Marat
In response to Ellie losing her fingers and being unable to play guitar: Tony Iommi accidentally lost his fingertips and bones to the point they said he should forget about playing, BEFORE he joined Black Sabbath, but he refused to accept this and made his own finger prosthetics out of melted soap bottles. Step up and deal with it, if it means so much to you!
Same for Django Reinhardt. He played with only three fingers (and was awesome)
That's awesome! I didn't know that!
Damn thats faking metal.
@@rickmalinger5361 When you take plastic soap bottles, make a prosthetic hand and made it metal. Oh yeah!!!! METAL!!!!
Best European jazz musician Django Reinhardt had 3 fingers. He was nicknamed three fingered lightning.
The bit about the bartender made me feel more than the entirety of TLOU2.
My man needs his own game
@Only Death ...I still...still can’t believe part 1 is a 90 or above but part 2 is a straight up 0...probably having trouble because I can’t understand why they went through with this...like this had to go through so many proofreads...was this just how Neil wanted to go out?
In the end, the one who holds the sword decides who holds the pen.
Bartender?
@@Umbrella419 the bigot who made the delicious sandwiches
That moment when Lugo dies and you're prompted to fire on civillians in Spec-Ops is one of the most chilling scenes in a game. That discharge of blind rage and hatred over your own fuckup instills this visceral, sick feeling in my stomach that few other games make me feel to that degree. The "No Russian" mission in MW2 doesn't evoke that same feeling because the emotional context just isn't there.
It’s even worse because you can hear Adams telling you to give him the order.
He wants to do it, its plain to see but he wants to put the responsibility on Walker by following his lead.
He’s entirely transparent about wanting to open fire into the crowd, he wants to devolve into a murderous monster with the assent of his CO.
I just finished the game and I wanted to try and see if I could get the crowd to disperse by shooting rounds into the air instead.
Bit of a surprised Pikachu face when it actually worked.
@Zen_77 That's what i did, i didn't want to shoot civilians even tho the game strongly suggests that you have to. Nice little detail.
@@zen_7748, I remember one guy who played this reliving his experience, and he said that in the epilogue when Walker is confronted by the US soldiers, he figured that Walker just didn't have anything to live for anymore, and he fired into the air, realizing he could've done the same with the civilians.
I will appreciate the soundtrack to the game. The heavy guitar rifts and drums. I like to listen to it time to time.
I remember hearing some positive statements related to Spec Ops before I played it. I was lucky to play Spec Ops blind in 2013 and feeling horrified at the white phosphorus scene. I remember the cashier from the rental store talking to me like I did not know what I was about to experience. Fucker asked me "do you feel like a hero yet?" I smiled and we talked about the game for ten minutes.
Woah
I hadn't heard anything about it and bought it thinking it was going to be another shooter. What I got was....
That clerk is a legend
@@tfwthelsdkicksin6083
Tfw the LSD kicks in
The soundtrack is haunting in Spec Ops, in this video it even makes some of the scenes from Last Of Us 2 seem more powerful. In a way it represents the game itself where it uses instruments we all know like guitars and drums, then throws a curve ball by turning up the melancholy and bleak feel those instruments can achieve. The world needs more experiences like Spec Ops: The Line and less experiences like Last Of Us 2.
Guys, Sauce for the "Stacked Tomboy dark skinned" specifically 6 digits
204365
Thx
@Zangyaku Diluc Go to a website called Nhentai, put those numbers on the search bar and see the NSFW magic happen.
tanned big tiddy tomboys are something else let me tell ya
aaaaaaayyyyy
Man now I want a LoU 3 from the perspective of the Bartender going on a revenge spree to avenge his dead daughter. Except make it interesting and fun this time.
Actually, don’t make it, cause Neil Drunkmann is and will always be cancer.
just make it a doom clone but with shrooms.
TLOU 2 unironically pulled the "if i kill you i become worse then you" which should warrant immediate expulsion from the arts
Anything that pulls that after making you kill hundreds of goons deserves to be scrapped forever
Assasins creed 2 did this and the very next game ezio paid the consequences. Killing the murder that killed you family wont bring them back, but it would atleast stop them from killing more
Well, how else do you stop the revenge cycle?
**SPOILER**
The Fireflies took Ellie from Joel, then Joel killed the Fireflies plus Abby's father without thinking twice, Abby then went after him, then Ellie went after her, then she realized that revenge won't solve anything for real. TLOU2 is about forgiveness, not about revenge.
@@victuz Lol, no. If its about forgiveness, the game wouldn't been 50 hours shorter. If its ever about forgiveness, Ellie would never had pursued Abby even after all that. She would've just stayed cause that's what Joel really wants.
@Ramon Borlongan yeah man. If ezio killed rodrigo in 2 then monteriggioni wouldnt have been attack cuz cesare wouldve never known who killed his father. Naughty dogs could make a brotherhood type game for the last of us so ellie could get that ezio character development going
Nobody expected anything from Spec Ops, and we got a masterpiece
Everybody expected something great from The Last of Us 2, we barely got anything
well honestly it's the opposite of the last of us 2 it exposed war crimes
Well, people expect it to be a typical tactical mooter like every other game at that time, that's why the game doesn't sell a lot. People are still talking about it today because people who played it know how the game is defying everyone expectation.
Clearly false. People actually got mad at the ending because Abby lived. Meaning it did its job at entertaining the audience. Just go in and enjoy the story and there's literally nothing wrong with it. Comparing games is a good way to not enjoy it.
@@donjuan2671 Leaving people frustated isn't the same as making people entertained. Also that statement has the same energy as "Turn off your brain and consume that spoiled milk" all over.
Why we got barely anything from TLOU2? No, actually, we got more than enough...... We got BIG pile of SHIT.
Awesome video! One thing that annoyed me about Last of Us 2 is how it tried to force you to feel different things (sad when Ellie killed Mel even though she came at Ellie with a knife, playing with Abby’s dog, etc). But Spec Ops The Line doesn’t try to do that at all. Multiple times in the game civilians are caught in the crossfire of whatever firefight you’re in at the time, and if you gun them down the game doesn’t cut to a “Game Over” screen and judge you for what you did, it makes you live with it.
Walker (and by extension the player) are eventually torn into for what they’ve done but it’s not to make them feel guilty it’s just Walker getting torn into for how utterly delusional he was and how he wanted to be “a hero” and “needed someone to blame”.
@@thomasraines1396 The moral of the story: when you're ordered to pull out, it's for a reason.
@@theguybehindyou4762 thats what she said
Spec Ops: Gives you a choice at the end.
TLOU2: Just spare Ma’am cuz revenge bad trolololololo
Two choices, one leading to an extended ending that lets you have even more choice.
@NEEDbacon at least we can make our own results. the other is just a shitty ride that forced to turn around after we reached the destination.
@@pantyeater-kun5788
One is a story about what drama and tragic events war can bring in a emotional and heartfelt way, the other is just a half assed interactive movie. Honestly, Dragon’s Lair feels more like a game.
Damn. Loli seriously just came in here and made up a whole backstory for the bartender in TLOU2 that was infinity more compelling and engaging than the entire game he appears in.
And from what I know, Loli ain't a writer.
Man over here made a character who's the "LAWL ECKSDEAE BIGTO 2 GET PWN'D" trope be seen as... dimensional?
Idk
I Genuinely felt bad for that bartender I don’t care what anyone says. In a post apocalyptic world I’m sure nobody would have time to be hateful towards someone else’s sexual preference there had to be more than just “because I hate gay people” Neil missed a lot of good opportunities for characters
@@theequalizer694 The only real way to hate it is if you're worried about the population just DYING cuz nobody is reproducing, to which it fucking sucks but yeah, don't hate sexual preferences.
Dat bad.
@TheWolfinator3456 and thanks to ellie. she almost wipe half of the population in Seattle.
@@theequalizer694 Especially that whole "Evil Christian Cult" trope he did with the Seraphites. That is so fucking juvenile and lazy for a supposed "serious" narrative.
No substance or logic, just a convenient villain because the plot needed one and something to prop up the protagonists. Same thing with the bartender. Nothing but tryhard edge-lord nonsense. Garbage I'd expect from some obese coffee shop hipster that's about as socially adept and open minded as a brick wall.
TLOU1 : real people acting how its like in a post apocalyptic zombie world
TLOU2 : teen drama romance horror on a post apocalyptic zombie world
true.
full of gays and steroids.
The only romantic comedy set in a post apocalyptic zombie world I like is Warm Bodies (except that ending)
@Douglas Oliveira only worse
Ummm. Yeah ellie grew up😂. You expect her not to be in a teen phase
When was the last time you shot American soldiers so casually that by the end of the game it lost all its edge and shock value and just became a chore that must be done so it all just ended? THAT is what made the phosphorus bombing so easy the first time, not knowing that they're actually harboring the refugees and by this point you've already killed more than a dozen of them and just forget that they're soldiers just like and to see them as the "enemy". You never kill the "bad guys". You've just convinced yourself that they're the bad guys.
TLOU2 should not have been a direct sequel, full stop. The game ended on such a perfect note that had fans debating the ending for literal years. With an ending that powerful, why would you ever come back to visit it directly?
TLOU2 could have just as easily been a really solid vengeance story if instead it followed Abby entirely. She's after her father's killer, but we don't find out until near the end. And the kicker could have been that Joel had already died during all that time, making her quest pointless. Her friends could have been killed but at least it would weigh on the player a lot more, because it was Abby's choice to bring them along.
Joel, Ellie, Tommy, etc all did not need to be directly involved in this story whatsoever. Their arcs were complete. Ellie doesn't even feel like the same character until like 70% of the way in because we don't get the much needed time spent in between, until the game decides that they're important and gives it to us in a flashback.
her is another person who wrote a better script for tlou2 than paid writers .
Now this, this would have worked
Well would you look at that, a better idea than what LOU2 ended up as!
Honestly that sounds actually interesting. Sad that we'd never get to see Joel's death but it's still compelling, unlike the product we got.
That is so true. The Last of Us should have been an Anthology series in which it follows multiple characters where they in some way connect with one another.
Good idea, my original idea sucked, I was thinking TLOU2 would be a prequel where it is essentially what happened in the 20 years after the infection started.
I love how the takedown moves become more savage as the game goes on. At the start, he will give a gun butt to the face to knock someone out. Later in the game, you'll do the same move with the intent of caving in the victim's face.
At the beginning of the game: punches the downed enemy or hits him with the gun butt. Looks more like a KO.
In the middle: punches the enemy twice, with the second strike being more bloody and fatal. Now Walker will either smash the face with the gun butt, or shoot the enemy with the weapon he holds at the moment. Can also say something after the kill ("Fucking traitor" for example).
Near the end: screw the gun butts and punches. Gun executions become much more regular, and they're more brutal than before. For example, instead of struggling to point Desert Eagle right in the enemy's face before shooting him, Walker will instead shoot the knee first and then the head after. Can also jump at the downed enemy, grab his head and hit it against the ground, then snap his neck. Most of the time will say "Fuck you" after getting the deed done. Hell, even the enemies react differently now. When you start the execution, they'll say something like "Oh shit!" or "Oh god no!" before Walker dispatches them.
There are many, many details like this in the game, and it's gonna take a long comment to list them all, so I'll stop here (unless someone wants me to continue, lol).
@@velocilevoncontine on bro
@@velocilevon Those 32 likes are still waiting for you to continue.
@@velocilevonAnd he will also say things like "killed the fucker"
Never trust a hipster or a vegan.
Lol why vegans
@tubeyou haynes yes so?
@tubeyou haynes okay?
@@theunholycrusader517 what the hell?
@@falcononpc9845 ?
10:20 Oh, I don't know, HE'S THE FATHER OF YOUR UNBORN CHILD!
Double standarts. Imagine if was the dude in her shoes. He would be called an asshole, abscent father, bad husband and maybe even a rapist or sexist for supposely objectifying his girl by just using her for sex or something.
Yeah, that kind of attitude speaks about how inconsiderate the lady is. Any partner in a committed relationship would speak with their other half when it comes to something as important as their future baby. The fact that she brushes off her guy as a non factor shows that she believes her opinion in the safety of her kid is the only one that matters.
@@pedrocc2624 Yeah, its common fucking decency to take your partner’s feelings into consideration. Trampling all over them and acting like they don’t matter isn’t “progress” like the writer wants to think.
There's that, and the scene where Jesse entertains the possibility that Dina might abort his child, and is totally fine with it. Because abortions in the post-apocalypse would be just as common as they are in #CurrentYear. Children aren't a valuable resource or anything, especially not when humanity is the closest to extinction it's ever been since the fucking Stone Age.
He is a man and... [gasps] white! How dare he think he has any say regarding the baby, you fascist!
"So our main character is gay-"
"You're hired"
Netflix be like
Wasnt expecting a jojo reference
"Is Walker gay?"
"No"
"Then he's bad"
@@marksman3945 well, he is bad but not bc is straight
@@anibalmedina6761 That's the joke, Mr. Hello gordon
Look at how both games treated the protagonist and the antagonist of the story.
Spec Ops: the Line
Walker (protagonist): in order to pursue his (delusional) heroic quest, he ended up committing more atrocities while rationalizing the hell of it. In the end, he doomed everyone, especially himself who lives (or dies) as a shell of a man.
Conrad (antagonist): in order to pursue his (delusional) heroic quest, he ended up committing more atrocities while rationalizing the hell of it. In the end, he doomed everyone, especially himself who died as a shell of a man.
They want to teach us a message, and it remains consistent for every character.
Last of Us 2
Ellie (protagonist): in order to avenge her dead father, she went on a quest for revenge but it became too much for her to the point that she dragged her loved ones in danger and became an evil murderous psychopath who destroyed everyone around her, just to chicken out in the final battle. Causing her to lose everything while having her worst fear, being alone, come true because "revenge bad".
Abby (antagonist): in order to avenge her dead father, she went on a quest for revenge but it became too much for her to the point that she dragged her loved ones in danger and became an evil murderous psychopath who destroyed everyone around her. But unlike Ellie, she went the whole way. In the end, she might lost a lot of people but her body is still fine. No missing finger what so ever while her quest in protecting Lev was successful because for her, revenge isn't bad. "Revenge only bad if you don't try hard enough". (Also, it's funny that she never get infected what so ever after Ellie bit her and her biting Ellie's fingers off. That's not how immunity works.)
They want to preach us a message, but the message is so inconsistent because they prefer Abby over Ellie.
Walker's descent into madness is progressively dreadful, emphasizing his loss of innocence with smart visual storytelling that increases his sense of guilt until he has no-one to blame but himself. All told through gameplay to speak to the viewer!
Ellie may seem to be somewhat going down this path for a while, but then she gets defeated without any sense of loss despite Jessie also dying. She just goes back home as part of a happy family in a rediculously stretched cutscene, and then she randomly decides to go finish the job out of nowhere but gives up. Nothing that happened during this quest gave her any realisation of what she was doing and it was painfully predictable from the start.
What Walker goes through is what we call an "arc". What Ellie goes through is terribly paced storytelling with tons of filler.
Thing is, there is a very, very easy way to fix TLOU2's ending without changing the message.
Have Ellie kill Abby, then do a time skip. 2 years later, some random person with no name shows up on Ellie's doorstep and kills her. Roll credits.
Druckmann is just not brave enough for that, though.
feel like it would have been much more impactful if you were given a choice to go all the way with Killing Abby, similar to Walker's situation when you are confronted by Conrad. This can also have a bit of cause and effect of a few endings whether they are good or bad.
In short: Abby is Druckmann's wet dream.
The only reason Spec Ops: The Line failed was a lack of multiplayer community.
LACK.
OF.
MULTIPLAYER.
COMMUNITY.
This is why Call of Duty games need to fade away permanently
Exactly
You know COD was all about the single player back then
But now it focuses more on mulitplayer like it's their main thing or something
well spec ops the line wasnt supossed to have an mp to start, it's very poorly polished out with a ton of bugs, horible balance (boi the pistol is straight up the fucking death star with an sniper precison and a good rate of fire) with some perks that are unbalanced, faction perks that dont make any sense, also the mp was made by another developer, cuz the one that actually made the sp didnt want to make mp cuz it knew it wouldnt hold up
@@viktorreznov6577 hold up video games have bad polish out the gates no one said anything about that. Also, to say Spec Oopsy Doopsy: The Twizzler Line had bad gameplay yeah that goes without saying 3rd person cover shooters are notorious for that prime example is Mass Effect 2 & 3.
My main gripe is good storytelling in todays climate is like finding a niddle in a hay stack, it either goes ham on the graphics or alright gameplay. But a good story that follows the game play fluidly. Best of luck I can think of maybe five games in the last decade that come close to Spectacular Operations: The Not so perfect Line gives us a glimpse into the morale conundrum of war and its effects on the human psyche.
@@PuppetierMaster yeah, i also think the storytelling is fucking good, the mp wasnt their priority, they wanted to tell a damn good story
Bit late to the conversation here but this isnt the first time Neil Druckman has killed a series I liked.....
Jak and Daxter The Lost Frontier (the last and worst Jak game) was also written by Neil Druckman.... go figure.
Man,my brotherused to play a jak and daxter game on the ps2 when he still lived,i saw it,it looked fun.
I still play mgsv on ps3.
Uncharted 4 also had some pretty bad writing.
@@Ineedgames it felt bad,i think the best one is 2
Tenzin is a legend
@@Ineedgames 4 was good but I do agree, it felt a little weaker compared to 3 which was a masterpiece.
I also hated how they handled Nadine and it honestly felt like they just added her in the game just to have a "Strong independent woman" character.
Not surprising though, Neil Druckman himself ws involved with Uncharted 4.
@@reimov my problem with Nadine is more so that her boss fights were just tapping square till it went from cutscene to cutscene, there wasn't any skill, fun or creative it was just 'follow the script'
She's not the worst but she's ehh...... at least lost legacy tries to make up for it.
Spec ops is a game about horrible people doing horrible things and the game actively telling they are horrible.
TLOU2 is a game about horrible people doing horrible things and the game actively trying get you to sympathize with the horrible characters.
I guess when its a woman is okay, because obviously it would only be a problem if the genders were reversed
The problem there as well is that when Walker becomes a monster, its tragic. You know that he really only wanted to help people. But things had gone so chaotic that he wound up doing horrible things to not only the civilians in Dubai, but the 33d soldiers that before they started shooting him, he was wanting to help. He does bad things because he's losing his mind, but the game acknowledges that the actions Walker does are bad.
Abby does bad things and the game not only tries to make you sympathize with her, but is also being ignorant of Abbys own crimes that make her a monster while pointing the finger at Ellie for chasing after her.
Walker couldn't get any sort of revenge on Konrad at the end of the game because Konrad was just a voice in his head. Ellie doesn't because Neil Druckman couldn't allow her to murder his baby. Blatant favoritism.
Spec Ops warrants pity.
TLOU2 wants to warrant sympathy
@@mr.weirdness5970 well said
@@mr.weirdness5970that's why The Line is the superior here. It knows what it is and is content in it's identity. The characters while tragic were horrible people and wound up with terrible fates regardless of the ending.
TLOU2 Despises its own heritage and desperately tried to beg for sympathy where you couldn't give it. Unlikable characters that the game DEMANDS you care about.
Spec Ops The Line:
A brutal and tragic story of a man so desperate to be a hero he ends up becoming the opposite.
The last of us part 2:
bIgOt SaNdWiChEs
"sMaSh BrAnDi'S cOoTch"
These bigot sandwiches taste like the best chicken I've ever had.
Are there more?
"The only villain here is you, Walker. There's only you."
The fact that that line comes from what was once the most likeable character in the game (even if he is a hallucination at this point) is just a kick in the f*cking balls to hear.
40:45 - As Yahtzee so eloquently put it: "The banter between Ellie and her girlfriend sizzles like a flask of slightly tepid water, because they're too similar in personality, background and motivations to have good chemistry."
I don’t think walker himself is evil or loves killing people, heart of darkness is about how any person given the right circumstances can end up doing horrific things, I think walker more so just becomes so numb to killing that he doesn’t think about the lives he takes, he did terrible shit while in Dubai but the meaning behind all the shit he did had good intentions, he wanted to help the civilians out at first then his country next but due to him being misinformed about situations time and time again it always ends up coming back and hurting both him and his team
And guess what ? TLOU2 is telling the exact same story but people don’t understand nuances and see everything through the prism of Christian morality of Good VS Evil:
“hmmmm Neil Druckman said that Joel/Ellie are bad and Abby is good so it’s traaaaash because it’s Abby who is bad !And Walker is a psycho that deserves to die !”
@@lequidam8827 theoretically both LOU2 and spec ops the line has a similar message but it is the execution of the premises that differentiate the two. Spec ops is executed wonderfully as the tension and doubt in the players mind keeps rising the further u go to the point where it becomes hard to tell whats rigth and whats wrong meanwhile in lou2 we have ellie's inconsistency, pethetic excuses for charecters and development and in the we just ended up not caring anymore due to how terible and broken of a mess the plot and story is . This makes its deep message go out the fucking window.
@@ismailabed8451 The goal of The Last of Us part 1 was not to make you feel like Joel but to tell a story from start to finish, to question the actions of Joel during his final decision.
Part 2 has the same goal, questioning all the characters actions by making you play both of them.
First you are rooting, for Ellie because of what Abby did to her, sharing her anger just like you shared the pain of Joel in the first one.
And just like the first one, the character start to mess up at some point.
That’s where the interesting characters shift occurs, and you can start to care about the person you where absolutely sure to never like to finally understand that no one got a point in this story so they better end up leaving all this hate and start to live a better life.
The problem with critics of this game is that people wants to think that The Last Of Us is a player driven narrative, where the avatar shares the same emotions and would make the same choices as the player like in a RPG.
Unfortunately TLOU always was a character driven game where the player is only the driving force of a soap opera
@@lequidam8827 thats why they say TLOU2 would've worked better as a movie . Its themes and charecters just isn't fit for a video game
@@ismailabed8451 And it’s by knowing this that you can start to see the problems of Spec Ops The Line where the line between what the developers want you to feel about Walker and what the player would do is weird.
Is Walker the player ? Not really because he has a real full on personality and goals that absolutely differs with what the player would do
But is he a full on character then ? Well it’s blurry considering that the player impact on the story can really be important
Strangely the developers wants you to question the player actions with the quotes and all, instead of Walker’s
Unlike what the developers did in both TLOU
As much as I love Spec Ops The Line I think TLOU2 as a better consistency in its ludo-narrative synchronicity
The fact that TLOU2 got a bunch of awards at this Golden Joystick really make me doubt everything about the credibility of the gaming industry in general.
The fact it beat Ghosts of Tsushima just depressed me.
All award shows are political now
More woke more awards
@@stephen971ful you
@@prarambh1589 you
@@stephen971ful It also beat Hades and Doom: Eternal. This industry fucking sucks
Spec Ops was the best horrifying surprise I have ever had in gaming.
Me too
Same i got it on PS Plus for free on PS3 and was bored even tho i never thought i'd play it cuz' it looked generic shooter but i installed it and played it and had the best brain thumping experience of my life with that story. And people call Bioshock and TLoU stories masterpieces but this game is a masterpiece above those games imo.
@@RED_XLR spec ops the line is way better than tlou any day of the week
@@RED_XLR yeah but Bioshock is great too at least it has an unique story unlike Tlou 1. Tlou 2 had a great and unique story concept but failed to do it. Bioshock Infinite, Silent Hill 2, Soma, Hellblade, Spec Ops: The Line and Planescape Torment are mastered to do it.
@@doan4534 Yep i agree. But for a shooter with no fantasy elements like powers and stuff is the best story out there in that specific "realistic genre" the 2nd being Tlou i guess. But just my opinion.
"These are actors and you're watching a bad movie..."
I can see that.
"...or one of the later seasons of Walking Dead."
*I can see that.*
Walking Dead is nowhere near the shittiness of LOU2
@@banestntheknight At least I remember that Walking Dead has zombies in it...honestly up to this vid I forgot that the Fungus wiped everyone out and not some MAD MAX event.
@@jacknagel9387 you mean an nuclear war and a war for Ressources?
@@titanhunter6431 Yeah, the criticism on the story had so little to do with the zombies that I forgot there even was zombies. It's ironic too because from what I've seen one of the only good parts of the game was the chase with the rat king.
Honestly, Dragon’s Lair feels more game
Ellie: oopsie doopsie
Walker: *I didn’t mean to hurt anyone*
Dina: It's okay.
Konrad: No one ever does, Walker.
@@connorpickens7523 Ellie: **cries or whatever, I can't be assed to remember**
Konrad: Is this really what you want?
@@NEETKitten Ellie : **remembering Joel then let Abby live**
Konrad : If that's what you believe then shoot me!
@@achmedycreedo Ellie: *Cries and remembering of how stupid she was*
Konrad: "Are you sure? Maybe it's in mine."
Ellie: Bigot Sandwiches
Konrad: You’re no saviour, your talents lie elsewhere.
"Why would it be up to Owen?"
WHY, why would the father of your child get a say in how you take care of his child?
"Oh gee Mel, I don't think Owen would like you dangling his kid above the alligator enclosure"
"Why would it be up to Owen?"
See how incredibly stupid that is?
"Fuck him, he is just the sperm dispenser, It's not like he would be completely broken if I died, my relationship with him is clearly less important than helping my psychotic friend find a complete stranger in a zombie ridden world" I'll remind you all this was just for a "yaz queen" moment, well I lied, that and to prop the narrative that Ellie is somehow worse than Abby.
@@ldmt1995 Sums up how every single character felt in this sequel in what was supposed to be a game grounded in human relationships in a fictional apocalypse.
The line should have been “is ISAAC ok with it?” Since that man is responsible for managing people and resources. Mel is a CRITICAL personnel in that group. And then let’s see Mel pull the “why would it be up to Isaac?” bullshit. Is Owen the human resource manager of this gang?
@@Klutch29 Wait? Holy, it wasn't even up to Owen?!?!? I kinda missed that on my playthrough....well....I didn't really liked that part of the game already but holy shiet!
@@ldmt1995 My thoughts exactly when I heard that in my playthrough, the virtue signaling is real.
What we need;
Spec Ops: Konrad; The Lines We Cross
The Prequel
It'd probably play out like an RTS where your all your choices result in you committing increasingly desperate and monstrous acts in a futile effort to survive. The final level is swallowing your pistol and pulling the trigger, condemning the remaining soldiers and survivors to suffer through the events of the first game without your leadership. Though, in the end, that might be considered a mercy.
I don't think Spec Ops should have a prequel or sequel, because it would have to confirm or deny certain interpretations of the game. But if the game was remastered, with the extra content the devs wanted to originally include? I'd buy that in a heartbeat.
@@ayyylmao101 If there was a prequel, I like to imagine that you would play not as Konrad but as a 33rd soldier. At first, the situation is quite stable - the first missions are basically target practice and helping refugees. But the more time passes, the more the situation becomes delicate. Eventually, at one point, there is a riot that you must stop. You can either fire in the air or shoot the civvies. This is where you cross the line.
After that, you face the insurgents who become more and more organized as they are trained by the CIA and you have to perform the most questionable acts to maintain orders. Desperate, Konrad attempts the Evacuation. The objective is at first to help the EOD troops to carve a way through the ravaged highway until the sandstorm strikes and ruins everything. Second part of the mission is to rescue as many people as you can while everything crumbles around you.
The point of no return is reached when the Mutiny happens. You can choose the Damned of the Exiled. If you have sided with the Exiled, you are executed by Konrad with White Phosphorus, but not before reciting with his command team the Soldier's Creed.
If you have sided with the Damned, first you attempt to rescue the civvies at the Nest and then you are attacked by Delta at the Gate. Soon, you realize with horror that they have hijacked the mortar. At first you try to hold the line but it's no use. Your CO orders you to get the civvies to safety. As soon as you jump into the trench, one last round incinerates you. You are the soldier who asks Walker "Why ?".
A prequel or a sequel wouldn't work, the story of Spec Ops is meant to be interpreted and up to the player's imagination.
@@spirz4557 bruh that was fantastic, thank you for that mental image, holy shit
Remember when neil druckmann bragged about that TLO2 would be like the "Schindler's list" of video games but end up being like Tommy Wisseu's "The Room"
@Frank Castle aka unintentional comedy
More like Niel Drunk Man..
That is completely unfair
The Room is a comedic masterpiece, I can watch it and enjoy the "so bad it's good" feeling
TLO2 is just bad
@@TheTdw2000 It doesn't really work since at least The Room provided the comedy, TLOU2 has to have meme makers do it.
It's more of a snuff film like the guinea pig series rather than the room
Virgin Last of us 2 vs Chad Spec ops: The line
How can people regurgitate those "memes" thinking repetition makes a joke better.
@@theblackbaron4119 How can people regurgitate those ''memes'' thinking repetition makes a joke better
@@theblackbaron4119 How can people regurgitate those "memes" thinking repetition makes a joke better.
@@theblackbaron4119 How can people regurgitate those "memes" thinking repetition makes a joke better
@@theblackbaron4119 How can people regurgitate those “memes” thinking repetition makes a joke better.
I also completely forgot there were zombies in LOU2
I'm still surprised at no one noticing the Hotline Miami'e route that they wanted to approach (hell they even got a cameo to the game in a cutscene) but somehow fucked up everything that Miami did right.
Hotline Miami specifically let's you enjoy violence to show you that yes, in this world, you do enjoy hurting other people. No one asked you to play this game, no one asked you to get better scores, no one asked you to enjoy it, but you did anyway, they didn't force you to have a "I'm the bad guy moment" they let yourself arrive to that conclusion. There is a reason the true ending doesn't really reveals anything, in you own search for finding meaning for all this bloodshed you confirm that, in fact, there is no reason other than you want to hurt other people
but wasnt the point of the game to have a fun time killing people and slowly getting better and more creative with it ?
@@massy9437 I mean maybe I'm reading to much into it but if you already came with that mentality the game doesn't have to prove anything to you, you already know why you came here
@@lorenzo7402 oh that kinda sucks I just heard of it as crazy killing game that's mad fun with cool music
@@massy9437 hey that doesn't mean the game is worse off because of it
I love that the alternate ending to Hotline Miami, the one where you're supposed to get answers and clarity, just makes it all the more confusing and nonsensical. It's a fever dream, you're supposed to feel confused and disorientated.
Spec Opps was like asking for ham and cheese sandwich and getting a nice grilled ham and cheese sandwich good shit kinda messy in a good way
But the trash of us 2 is like originally getting a nice ham sandwich (lous) then going back to the same store asking for a ham and cheese sandwich and getting some preachy vegan sandwich and then getting told I'm a bad man for not wanting it
Nah TLOU2 is like getting a pile of tapeworm infested shit.
The short answer: SpecOps the line works because it taps into the human condition and shows what the stress of war can bring a man to when his mind and body are pushed past that line of shell shock.
The last of us 2 doesn’t because it was made to pander to a demographic that would never play the game.
hey! You imbecile! Those demographic you mentioned play those game too, hah! sounds like someone hasnt done their research...
.
.
.
.
they actually hated it too and that actually makes it worse, pandering can only get you so far.
Short answer for tlou2 honestly doesn't do it justice. There's just too many things that went wrong.
Hey look people who didn't play the game
@@firebender1174 played both, found SOtL to be more emotionally compelling than LOU2, plenty of the game’s story was awkward and made little to no sense on a survival level for some of the characters, let alone some of them being killed off in the dumbest ways possible.
Very different games though, one is a modern military shooter that is meant to be psychological and the other is a post-apocalyptic game with zombies set in the future
Watching Joel lose his daughter again in this video nearly made me tear up. I don’t get how you go from a 10/10 story with human feeling characters with relatable speech and conversations to this. “Hollywood Bullshit.”
Simple, the writer for TLoU outed the previous writer and basically shat all over the page while declaring himself a genius.
Spec ops the line had internal politics. Politics in game that occur due to setting and story progression. Tlou 2 has external politics. The ones not influenced by story. I hated tlou 2. I think your video sums it up best.
Spec Ops the Line has *heavy* external politics, it's possibly the most effective anti-war game we've ever seen and was trying to remind people that terrible things happen because the wars in the middle east became an accepted part of our lives when the game came out, like it still is. Back then though we could still reflect on a time before that -- I'd argue Spec Ops is actually even more important now to actually have some kind of memory of this stuff. Spec Ops says something with real relevance and thought though, while TLOU2 has the politics of your average twitter blue check virtue signaling for clout. Imagine these people thinking "revenge bad" is a good message instead of a trite one, especially when literally if people took their revenge further less bad things would've happened in TLOU2 lol.
@@BobsRevenge About war, true.
But I dont think it say much about the middle east in particular. Walker talked about his experience in Afghan, but it's to establish connection between him and Konrad, not really to say something about that war.
The situation of the game isnt even a war on terror, proxy war or a war between nation states. It's more of a post apocalypse. In the game, US already withdrew out of Dubai, it's Konrad who got in there for pure humanitarian reason. At best, the game criticised the power structure in Gulf countries or CIA's underhanded tactics.
They both have external and internal politics. I'd argue TLOU 2 has more internal politics (WLF vs Seraphites), and SOTL had more external politics (anti-US involvement in ME war).
@@BobsRevenge I would say the heavy difference is that the External Politics make sense in Spec Ops and blend with the internal politics and that actually makes it feel real and interesting whilst in TLOU2 they are not in sync and you can tell that it is not really what people would be thinking or saying in that world, it is done for the sake of pandering to a market that they were expecting to cover the sales they would loose due to the game being low quality with an uninteresting story and that is basically the way it feel to me.
When the internal themes of the story sync with the external messaging of the game I believe it makes you think and makes you question things, whilst when they are not in sync it feels preechy and annoying.
Tarl Raney still did Walt Williams a favor
Fun fact: The writer of last of us didn't write LoU 2 and didn't like the ways the story was going.
@@PhartingFeeting just search it up lul
@@jakeembers The person who write Legacy of Kain saga! Can't believe the have fired her.
@@AndreaAndy85 It wasn't firing per say, more like she was forced into quitting, cause she couldn't work with Neil and didn't want to put her name under the story of TLOU 2.....
@@cl1cka Bad story. Well, in a way or another she make the right choice... at last she had her name saved from the disaster!
I mean, 70% of the team left the project mid way. The writer is just one of many.
You know, coming back to this after realizing Druckmann protected a sexual predator at Naughty Dog offices, the part about Lev being scared because he wouldn't get the chance to be a soldier instead of the *immediate and real fear* of being molested kinda makes sense now.
Of course Lev wouldn't have a problem with being the child bride of one of the elders: Neil Druckmann has no qualms with that and he wrote this game based on his, personal, morality.
that's fucked!
Wait .....he defended a sexual predator?!?
@@MrAsh1100 Yup. Multiplayer lead designer Robert Cogburn got metoo'd during the development of Uncharted 4. Druckmann's response was to fire the person who complained about Cogburn to HR (IE, the victim tried to handle it in-house before publicly exposing them), and Sony reportedly had to pay out the ass to a tune of 20k to settle it out of court.
@@crazyinsane500 Well well well. Colour me surprised. Of cos, its just an accusation but still, he still tried to cover it up, whether true or not and that sums up some things
He did WHAT?!
(28:35) My favorite loading screen tip was:
"The US military does not condone the killing of unarmed combatants. But this isn't real, so why should you care?"
This hit me like a freight train to the guts.. The dissonance, and the total denial of reality to cope with said reality, is something people in real life do to survive traumatic experiences. This type of storytelling is only possible in the medium of video games. Yahtzee said it best in his Zero Punctuation review; we as an audience member take the place of the last fleeting speck of sanity in the protagonist's head, just looking in disbelieve of what horrible atrocities we must do in order to finish the mission. We as a player, just like Cpt. Walker, don't have a choice but to kill everyone in our path to finish the mission..
but the mission.. finally.. finished us...
The "super-bad ending" where Walker says "Welcome to Dubai" after killing the american soldiers coming to rescue him, sealed the deal for me. Dubai is whatever you need it to be. Be it an escape from yourself, a chance to be a hero, something unobtainable like the great white whale, or a reason to live. Beautiful.
Oh, the last of us? Never played it. Seems boring
@you're in mandom I've heard good things about it. The gameplay just seemed a bit lacklustre. But spec ops also seems like a generic shooter from afar, so maybe I will give it a chance!
@you're in mandom I don't own a PlayStation, though. So should I borrow my friends ps, or can I get the full experience from watching the cutscenes and important gameplay parts on jëwtübe? Cuz with spec ops the gameplay in integral to the story, even though it's generic as f
@you're in mandom aight. I'll do that!
Take the first one,burn the second
@Matheus Gomes yeah, everything is so black and white these days. I get why someone would say spec-ops sucks. It is gameplaywise pretty generic/derivative, and if you're not into bleak stories about the darkness of the human condition, spec-ops will surely leave you cold.
Not you - the general "you"
I think why theLastOfUs took so much flack is because it can be viewed as "pretentious" while all the "game critics" - meaning, bought and paid for games journalists - gave it glowing reviews for being sooooo unique and "cinematic" and "touching". And spec-ops got hardly any press. So it has a "cult classic" status among people willing to overlook its shortcomings.
And no, I didn't leave the 'two' out accidentially from the last paragraph. I, and many others like me, thought this about the first game too.. sorry guys. The thing you like is not for everyone. To me both theLastOfUs games look generic and boring and "try-hard"
But, then again, the same criticism can be said of spec-ops. Apples and oranges, I guess. Some people like pop music. I like black metal and experimental noise..
I guess in the end spec-ops is way more subtle, and asks a lot from it's audience in order to get the story, and it's more satisfying for those who "get" it. While the tlos is pretty heavy handed in it's story, and spells everything out to its audience.. both can be seen as pretentious
Almost ran out of quotation marks there D:
The last of us 2 is trash. Imagine if kratos spared Zeus.
Remember how Kratos regretted killing Zeus? The one person he was bent on killing more than anyone else? Unlike Ellie, there is a good reason why it works for Kratos.
Kratos killed his family because of the rage of Ares that consumed his entire being. After finding out what he did, he sought revenge by obtaining Pandora's box and killing Ares.
There were certain evils in the box that infected and changed the Gods, including Kratos. Kratos was consumed by rage, Zeus by fear, Aphrodite by lust, Hecules by envy, Athena by greed, and I forgot the others.
In GOW2 Kratos was consumed by rage not regretting anyone he's killed. Except Athena, because he wanted to kill Zeus. After that, the evils of rage overtook Kratos and had him destroy all of Olympus just like the rage of Ares compelled Kratos to murder so many people including his family.
Once he killed Zeus, the evils of rage left Kratos. Leaving a regretful *what have I done* expression JUST LIKE when he killed his wife and child.
That's a regret that works.
To sum up Ellie;
Ellie: I killed too many people working with Abby. No regrets.
Also Ellie: I almost killed Abby, there's so much pain.
Yeah, just pathetic.
@@riiddisbuk2496 Right, I agree.
@Pindé Yes.
@Pindé Seriously, what the fuck's wrong with you?
Dog shit doesn't deserve to be compared to TLOU2. That's offensive to dog shit.
@@mortemtyrannus8813 Oof u got me ,was gonna go ape shit
Having played Spec Ops: The Line recently, I wholeheartedly agree with this take.
It's not a happy-go-lucky affair by any stretch, but there was a lot that kept me going up until the end.
The Last of Us Part II, by contrast, felt like a pretentious melodrama on par with the low-tier soap opera nonsense to come out of the CW.
I think the arguments criticizing Spec Ops for "forcing" the player to do horrible things and then chastising them for it are a bit misguided, specifically the scenes in which Walker's (and by extension the player's) actions directly cause the deaths of civilians. It's all about how the game frames and presents the actions to the player, and how the information is revealed. We can see how this is handled in two scenes: the White Phosphorous (Willy Pete) strike and Lugo's hanging.
In the Willy Pete scene, the civvies are collateral damage. Walker (and the player) isn't aware that there are civilians on the field. In that moment, and on most people's first playthroughs, it's just them and the 33rd, and the player (and the game) recognizes that there is no feasible way to fight the 33rd head on, so they have to use the phosphorous in order to complete the mission (which is a key point that I'll come back to later). After the deed is done, the player sees the destruction they caused, but just like Walker says to one of the dying soldiers, they probably think that the 33rd brought this on themselves. It's only after the civilians are revealed that the player begins to see the consequences of their actions. They didn't know there were innocent people there. They didn't mean to hurt anyone. But they did. Sure, you can say the game "forced" you to do it, but again, we have to look at the context. The player and Walker share the same goal at this point in the game. Storm the gate, find Konrad. This is the only way forward to complete that objective, which is the only motivation that Walker has throughout the entire game. Complete the mission. He isn't about to walk away just because he has to use excessive force, much like the player isn't about to just stop playing the game because they have to do something they may not like (although, much like Walker abandoning his mission, this option is always available to the player). So he decides to give the order to use the Willy Pete. Lugo and Walker share some dialogue about this, where Lugo tries to say that there's always a choice, but Walker (and by extension the player) understands that there really isn't here. The only other option is to open fire on the 33rd, a fight which they most certainly cannot win. In fact, that was originally going to be an option the player could have chosen, but due to technical limitations of console hardware at the time they had to scrap it (PC master race and such). Under no circumstance would a squad of trained Delta Force operatives reveal their position and open fire on a force that vastly outnumbers and outguns them, so they take the only option they have that gives them the upper hand, which is the Willy Pete. And of course, we all know how that turned out. Now, if Walker had known of the presence of civilians prior to using the phosphorous, there's no way that he would have used it at this point in the game. He hasn't been broken yet. He would have either had to find some other (basically nonexistent) way forward, surrender to the 33rd, or just abandon the mission. Similarly, if the player had been told that there are civilians present and the game still made them bomb them, then we run into trouble. But the game doesn't do that. It plays its hand after you committed to the mission. And as for how the game mocks the player for this event, it isn't necessarily pointing at the actions that you did and saying "wow you suck," it's more so pointing out how quickly most players likely jumped on the idea of doing it without thinking of the consequences. The perspective of a greyscale screen with white dots for enemies and a crosshair for your target is a familiar one to most shooter players. By the time Spec Ops was released, it had been seen in a number of games. So, when the game does this, most players don't bat an eye. They take control of the mortar and fire away. That is what the game is ridiculing you for. Spec Ops makes you look at the damage you've caused. You finally have your eyes opened and can only imagine the landscape of destruction that you've caused in other games in which you rain down death from above but conveniently never have to experience.
This changes when the player is tasked with "dealing" with angry civilians after they kill Lugo. During this encounter, the player is fully aware that these are unarmed civilians. They know deep down that it wouldn't be the right thing for them to gun them down. But they just brutally murdered not only your squadmate, but your friend. You've come to know and appreciate both Lugo and Adams throughout the whole game, and seeing Lugo murdered in such a savage way can be enough to send you over the edge. However, even with all of this in mind, it's still up to the player to make the choice. Does your desire to avenge Lugo cause you to forgo your moral sensibilities for the sake of frontier justice, or do you keep your urges suppressed in a desperate attempt to hold on to any shred of morality? You can chose the either open fire on all of the civilians, or fire your weapon into the air to make the crowd disperse. This war crime is up to you to commit. If you go through with it, the game is well within its rights to turn around and point the finger at you. You did this. You killed those people. It was your choice.
This is the difference between Spec Ops and TLoU 2. Spec ops does a fantastic job at providing context and framing all of the atrocities in such a way that someone on their first playthrough likely would just follow along with them without thinking out it, which is essentially them making all of the choices of their own accord. They think it's the right thing to do at that point in the story, and it does indeed move you closer to completing your objective, but they only see the true severity of their actions once the dire consequences are revealed to them. In TLoU 2, it's quite clear to most players that the things Ellie does are bad things. The game goes out of its way to frame Ellie's actions in a negative light even before the player has to commit to them. So it creates this disconnect where the player is ripped out of the experience and they don't feel the effect the game is trying to elicit. The most obvious example of this happening is with Nora. When I made it to this part in the game, I felt that beating her over the head with a lead pipe was not the right thing to do before we even got there. Plus, it takes place inside a boring quicktime event. All you do is press square when the game tells you to, and you don't even see what is happening to Nora. It doesn't have the guts to fully commit to the violence in this scene, unlike Spec Ops which goes all the way. Plus, all of the horrible things you do in Spec Ops are done through the actual gameplay mechanics, not quicktime events, so it feels much more authentic when things happen. So when it showed Ellie being all sad after she beat Nora to death, I didn't feel any of that at all. One moment where TLoU 2 actually almost accomplishes proper framing is with Mel's death. Sure, it's in self-defense on Ellie's part, so it's not as brutal or inherently evil as Walker's actions, but the reveal that she was pregnant was a good one (at least it would have been if we hadn't already encountered a dumb pregnancy arc with DIna). But then the game proceeds to ruin it by showing that Mel doesn't care at all that she's pregnant and shows no regard for her or her unborn child's safety by choosing to go out to the frontlines because "Why would it be up to Owen?" Mel makes such a monumentally stupid decision that robs any shred of an effect of her pregnant reveal in Ellie's story. The game was going somewhere with good presentation and framing, then chose to throw it all away for really no reason at all. That's why Spec Ops works and why TLoU 2 doesn't.
Nah, Spec Ops works because it never was a waste of $60, didn’t have a shit story, is straight (not gay), and false advertising behind it. We didn’t expect much out of it aside from a lazy COD clone. But it wasn’t.
TLOU2, on the other hand, is torture to play through, with plot holes, trash gameplay and writing, as well as being extremely repetitive. It also feels WAY more like a movie than a game. Honestly, Dragon’s Lair feels more like a game.
I’m also straight, so...
Amazing.
you described it perfectly
im commenting so i can read this when i got some spare time
edit: i totally agree with the game not revealing the civillians first and clutches it with Lugo saying "He turned us into fucking monsters/killers". it's where 'reviewers' lost their shit and can't accept reality. so they blamed it on the game
@@imp4ktth yeah I do the same
What I like is how people react about TLOU2. And how it's basically non-canon.
that's how i see tlou2: as an alternate continuation, not canon continuation.
@Only Death Yeah Disney star wars is non-canon at least to all Fans of Star Wars