I think its a really good number and works really well.... right now. I just hope AL is balanced like the original set so there continues to be surprise decks and a no defined meta :)
Absolutely, that is the hope that the depth of card design continues to be developed in a way that there is a lot to explore. I really do think that if there are a couple of new Avatars and if they are distinct enough, it will give a lot new opportunities for gameplay. Another thing the team could do was alternate between a really big set (300 cards plus) and then a set around 250-ish cards and plus a mini set, so a miniset every other year, which also allow artists for the minisets to have some more time to work on the project. Thank you so much for checking out the video!
It would be better to do one set per year at 300+ cards. 350 is the sweet spot for optimal size of a ccg set. 350-400 for a core set, once every 3-5 years, and 300-350 for a yearly expansion set. 250 is a little bit small for a yearly set. Also, keep in mind, If Sorcery ever releases a set that contains fewer than 150 cards, the result could be devastating. And VOID forbid they release a 100-card set. That would destroy the market. Look at the set sizes of ABU, Legends, Ice Age, and the big Magic sets from the old days. Balance and power creep is another conversation.
We completely agree, even though we don't think every expansion needs to be 300+ cards. Maybe an alteration between 250, 300, 350 and 400 could be a solution. We also completely agree that under 250 cards would be a disaster for Sorcery, since there is only one yearly release. The sets needs to be big enough to keep both players and collectors engaged for a full year. That being said it is also worth noting that the size of a set itself isn't everything, it also depends on the cards, so we would prefer a heavily playtested set with 250+ cards, where all the cards are relevant, to a 350+ set, where for instance 50-70 of the cards are utter fillers. So far Sorcery has found the sweet spot when it comes to balance and power (ok, sorry, Water), and we think that the grid offers many possibilities that makes power creep a little less problematic for Sorcery than other games.
I'm not really worried about Arthurian Legends size in terms of total Card Pool. I think the ~250 number is fine (if a little smaller than I would like) and it will keep ordinary/exceptional/elite secondary market prices WAY down because I think folks are ordering as much/more than they did of Beta, and there will be a lot of "bulk" listed. I'm a little more worried about there not being any form of Precon for the set. I think the Beta Precons are fine, but I think there will be a disconnect for new folks looking to get into the game. If we get multiple Avatars (which I think we will) I'll happily try to brew some "precons" from among AL cards with comparable power level to the Betas, but it's not the same as a true entry-level product on the shelves of your LGS.
We are also a little sad that there won't be A.L. precons. It is a great entry product that new players can pick up, but it is also interesting for more established players that you get a site package and some stable cards to build from when designing your own constructed deck.
I think it's good they didn't make the set too big. For myself I only jumped in a few months ago. I'm not done yet with beta. Unfortunately I completely missed alpha. I'm not sure I can complete beta before the release of AL. So... A smaller set, for me, is perfect!
Welcome aboard :) We also think it is wise to have a bit of a smaller set when it comes to both collecting and gameplay. For collectors it is great that it won't be just as hard to collect a full set as alpha/beta, for players it is great to get new cards, but not get completely flooded and having to get to know a lot of new cards.
250 to 300 is perfect. If 300 is achievable with the same quality as alpha / beta then I'd prefer the higher number. But since all art is hand painted and Erik had a few years to collect the pieces for Alpha I'd say 250 is fine. Quality over quantity. And with mini sets like the dragon set we can get that number a little bit higher.
Completely agree. We also think the sweet spot is around those numbers, with the possibility to shake it up a little and have for instance a 250 card set, a 300 card set and a 350 card set within 3 years (should average 300 cards per set). But 250 could also be great, depending on the mini set(s).
Thank you for checking out the video. Right now my best guess would be that they will have to reprint the Beta precons, or something like it to get enough sites out there for new players, or we might get some basic sites in AL. This was also a problem originally with Magic and we also spoke about this on the channel during the Kickstarter days, and this was one of the reasons having the precons was such a good solution for new players. Singles are readily available and the basic sites are very cheap to come by second hand, but I fully realise for a new player that might not be a great option and adds more friction to get started with a new game, so I am hoping we might see a reprint of the Beta precons with an AL booster instead of a Beta one.
The number has been hovering around 10-15 for awhile, but I get the feeling that the set size has changed since the date was pushed. For now, the best insight can be had in Ed Beard Jr. Patreon, but the most we know is the that the set focuses on the Dragonlord and he has painted and revealed some paintings on livestream over at Collector Arthouse, but there isn't a lot of information on there right now. The minute there is anything new, we will definitely update with a new video. 😉
If they released 2 sets a year I would say 250 cards per set is good but 1 set a year I think you need at least 300 cards minimum. That said if they release a supplemental product in between it won't be so bad.
Thanks for checking out the video! I think 250+ cards is good deal on top of the huge Alpha/Beta set, and it still remains to be seen how much more than 250 cards we are getting exactly. There will be the Dragonlord miniset, which some people are saying have grown in size, and that should release between AL and the next full set. 😉
I'm very excited for the new set but also concerned about how they plan to get new players engaged without having to invest heavily into beta and alpha. I hope they make more starter decks and convince more stores to carry their product as well.
Yeah, we have some of the same concerns. We know that there won't be any precons in A.L., but it is very possible that they just reprint the beta precons. We are also interested in lands in A.L. Will we see new ordinary lands, and if not, will lands from beta be in the packs? If not, how are new players going to be able to play Sorcery at all? But, knowing Sorcery, we are sure they have already got this covered and will inform us in due time.
It’s enough cards for a set the problem is the gap between sets and the poor stock levels. Many people didn’t get Beta and I have no game stores near me that stocked the game thus it is collection only for me. They really need to boost supply on the next set if they intend for the release to last a year.
I don’t know where you are located but EU stores will be getting a Beta reprint in August/September, and the US will get a limited restock in the fall as well. I think one of the ways they are trying to fix the distribution and accessibility of Arthurian Legends in printing in waves to make the product available for longer. Are you playing on TTS or on the gaming Discord set up to find local players in your area?
@@jayson_deen Absolutely, and those 250+ cards will also have a bigger impact if the play testing makes more of them interesting and playable. For many modern TCGs sets might be bigger, but so incredibly many of the cards in up en bulk. The way you deck build in Sorcery and the rarity limit also helps with using more of the Ordinaries and Exceptionals. 😉
I am so excited to see what cards we get with AL! I am also wondering with things they might throw in, like types, that might be bridging towards later sets! 🤩
250 cards for an "expansion" is ok. I actually think we will be getting more Sorcery releases than just one a year. It's looking like 2 plus mini sets.. I think this card count will be fine for the first expansion. Then we got the Dragon Lord set coming out which will have more than expected..
Thanks for joining in the conversation! As far as I know they have said the production is going faster now and a lot of things are more easy in terms of the team having established a routine. However, I don’t think the team has said that they will make more sets per year, but who knows, it might happen because the capability to make cards has increased. 😉 I would be really interested in hearing where you have heard about a 2 plus a mini and that the Dragonlord set will have more cards?
I just can't wait for more cards that allow for more thematic decks over time. I know there are some fun theme decks already, but I think that'll only become cooler as time goes on.
Now you are speaking my kinds of cardboard, that is a great point! 😉 I am also looking forward to being able to play more typal decks, wolves and to a lesser degree spirits and mortals are probably the only viable typal decks right now, and I hope that we get more cards for theme/typal decks as we get new sets. Thanks for checking out the video and leaving a comment, we appreciate it a lot!
Not sure if they noted or not if AL is an expansion makes sense to be smaller that way. Core sets are always larger. A year apart is. Along time for small pools so it depends on the next couple set sizes. Unfortunately for me the way they handled beta really turned me off.
Indeed, expansion sets are always smaller, and 250+ cards is still within the range of a bigger set. I also think we might see a larger set next year, and that they might alternate between a bigger and smaller set. I also think the Beta was a bumpy road and not all of it was slowed in the best way, but I am still enjoying the game a lot. 😉 Might we be lucky enough that you will check back in with Arthurian Legends? ❤️
@@CardboardGuideto be honest I’m not sure. The only way as a customer to show my discontent with a company and how they handle business is to NOT give them any business. The game itself is fun and nice overall. But I don’t have enormous amounts of time to play so that is a push back. But again, the absolutely horrid distribution of the cards amongst the boxes and cases really left a sour taste in my mouth. Then they essentially printed as much as needed and seems to be plentiful. Which also to me doesn’t sit well. The “collectability” I don’t think will be where I want it to be and there are way too many variables amongst beta alone with 3 visually different versions. I understand they are a new company but that doesn’t (for me anyway) mean unlimited grace or forgiveness. I’m not sure I’ll continue with this game going forward. As of late I’ve been hiding in the shadows only checking in on things periodically. I will let it be organic. If they can draw me back in then it will say something. If they can’t then it just wasn’t meant to be. 😊
I think you have some really good points here and I also hope to see that the colours and cutting have been dialed in before Arthurian Legends, and hopefully stay more consistent also between the different waves. I hope we get to keep you in the game and I have enjoyed our conversations a lot, so hopefully there will be more and it would be interesting to keep getting your take on Sorcery. 😉
@@uknow1311 I think this is spot on. More card doesn’t necessarily mean more playable cards, so I would rather have more well tested cards that are playable, than a ton of bulk from a bigger card pool.
I think that there will be new avatars to explore gameplay in new ways, but for the sets size, I would expect something closer to between 4-6 Avatars, but who knows, it will be very interesting to see how many and what the new avatars focus on. Thanks for checking out the video. 😉
250 cards is too small for 1 year a set. From what I have observed in many LGS the community in sorcery has been dwindling down ever since the "summer" sorcery debacle. They need to inject more cards so that newer players will be more attracted to pick up the game. They should establish a bigger presence first in the LGS before doing any other things like those conventions. LGS will still be the bread and butter of any non-digital card games going forward.
Thank you for watching and leaving a comment. The Sorcery team said that they never aimed to be the primary TCG, that they have become so is another things, so I think the idea is that you can’t take breaks and come back. On the other hand, I think it is will be potentially dangerous if people completely disengage with the game, because there will always be the risk that people don’t come back. I would also love seeing them having a bigger presence at more LGS’, but I do think that is something they are actively working to improve.
I think 250-300 is perfectly fine. Also not so much played Avatars right now could get a boost with new cards or cards with different tresholds (maybe Elementalist)...or at this point Mono Water Decks are difficult to consist.with a few good cards Mono Water could get a thing. Yeah looking forward to AL 😎😎✌️
Absolutely, it would be interesting to see some of the less used Avatars get some more play with new cards. I also think if any of the elements need a little boost in order to see more play it would be water. Very excited for Arthurian Legends, the cards, the gameplay, and of course the Curios.
And also in that case we should think about how good they made it with using rarities in a Deck.If it is made like in Mtg the Strong Meta Decks wouldn't change THAT much but how they did it 1-2 really good cards could change a whole Deck in my opinion 🤷♂️🤷♂️😊😊
@CardArtChris Absolutely! Overall I think the game design lends itself well, and probably by design, to long term exploration, while staying interesting.
I think Arthurian legends is well sized, 250 sounds small but that's a lot of cards... It's a good first expansion size. I really like the idea of mini sets. Being able to inject needed game pieces as and when they become needed or wanted can help to diversify the meta even further, while also preventing any necessary errata or bans (not that that has been an issue at all). But this extends to the community too, supporting unsupported minion types or strategies that the fans end up liking more than EC probably expected (frogs for instance). It wouldnt need to be scheduled or too frequent, but 15 artists, 15 artworks, 15 cards, and hey presto new exciting gameplay and hopefully competitively viable decks. With 3 or 4 of these across the year, the annual wait for set release would be far less painful. Just wanted to praise the mini set for a moment 🙏 carry on...
Thank you leaving such an interesting comment and checking out our video. 😉 I think it is a good size considering most players are still exploring the full depth of Alpha/Beta, and that Arthurian Legends will be layering on top on this set. I really like the concept of minisets as well, both letting a specific artist shine and really work on a theme or subject that they are known for or just really want to explore, creatively seems interesting and could really give a breath of fresh air between the full set releases. ❤️ I don't know that we would see 3 or 4 mini sets per year, but even one between larger set releases would really add a lot, and I think your idea of maybe expanding on beloved archetype or specific creatures would be a great idea to work from. I think we might want to do an entire video on mini sets, just based on this comment and thinking through all the different possibilities.
@@CardboardGuide definitely a topic I think players aren't talking about enough! Everyone's focused on main set releases and seemingly overlooking other announced products. We know about the dragon mini set, and that's a popular archetype that does not have enough support to be viable by itself yet. We don't know what else they may be cooking up, and they may even be waiting to see what (if any) missing ingredients show themselves after the first two set releases before committing to other mini set themes. Just spit balling some thoughts!
Really interesting, and we will be making a video on the possibilities of minisets and what the pros/cons would be, we hope you will want to check out the video and continue the conversations there!
This is half of Wizard's Assassins Creed set, and most consumers hate it. I know Sorcery is different, but with one set a year, this, at least to me, seems like a big fail.
Thank you for checking out the video. Assassin's Creed is 100 cards (including 20 reprint, so only 80 new cards), Arthurian Legends is 250+ card, so I think you might have misunderstood something?
I think that is actually a good point that we didn't touch on in the video, just I don't want to see, too much, power creep, I also really don't want to see a lot of new mechanics in every set. ;) Thank you for checking out the video!
I'd have to agree, about 275 to 300 and a mini set of 75 to 100 for 350 or 400 new cards per year. I think that the mini set released half way in between the main sets would scratch my itch. I can't wait for Arthurian Legends no matter the size 🎉😂
Great video! I think that both Alpha and Beta have plenty of cards. 5th Edition for MtG had 449 cards and that set felt overwhelming. I think that AL will have plenty of cards to add to the current card pool and it also leaves lots of room hopefully to see how beta will interact with AL. Love the videos, keep the Sorcery content coming.
Thank you, we appreciate the kind words and you taking the time to check out the video! We completely agree, and I think the will be a lot of new game space to explore with Arthurian Legends! We have a lot of video lined up about Sorcery, as we are super excited about the game and especially AL!
6:40 Was just about to comment this. Early days of MTG, card counts in the expansion sets were barely enough to think of the product as an expansion. Only balanced by the fact that card packs back then didnt carry the default 15 cards most modern sets are known for today. 250+ cards is more than enough for the first auxiliary set to a game that already had a alpha product release that was over 100+ cards larger than MTGs original debut set. Itll be fine. What i am more concerned about is Erik and team making enough product so that there arent shortages or enough boxes to sustain the player base until next sets release. A year is a LONG time and youre already beginning to see the effects it has on the Beta release of the game. People cant get product and some are even beginning to lose interest. Gotta keep the new cards coming! Personally, I cant wait!
@@yumyumeatemup Thanks for taking the time to comment. 🙌🏻 I also think there is a difference in the fact that most modern TCG sets have so many cards that invariably end up in bulk. With more careful testing and the rarity systems impact on gameplay, hopefully more cards are viable for play, which actually makes the set feel better. Right now all the European stores have the option to preorder Beta wave 2, so hopefully we see more product here in EU around August/September. I also think that they will have been working on better distribution of the product and getting into more stores. 🙏🏻 I am beyond excited and looking forward to seeing the product at SPIEL! 🔥🤩
I think this number will work as long as beta or another core release is available for purchase to supplement AL. Another option would be to create starter decks for the other avatars (price them a little more based on rarity) which would provide more introductory access to core set cards to use with AL.
Interesting, I personally hope that they will reprint the Beta precons, but ideally I would have loved new ones for AL, and change the single booster to AL. I think there will be loads of Beta available (mostly singles, but also boxes) in the beginning with Arthurian Legends, and it will be playable as a standalone as well, so hopefully players will be able to build with Beta as well.
I feel "King of the realm" will be in almost every deck with how many mortals are being released. Also: Assorted Animals and Highland falconer is we see many beasts show up
That is interesting, I am curious to know what decks or strategies they will have to counter mortals that might balance it out. Assorted Animals will probably see some more play, like we said in the video, it will interesting to see what cards will shine when AL hits. 🙌🏻 Thanks for checking out the video. ❤️
Same for us! I think the set is big enough to provide a lot of extra cards and game space to be explored! I am so excited to see the full set and for now I look forward to the next spoilers from the set!
Thanks for checking out the video. So expansions/theme sets around 300-ish cards seem good, how about base/core sets, how often would you like to see those and what size would you expect them to be?
I think 250 is a fair amount of cards. You made a great point about the meta and strategies being very pliable if a new avatar is introduced too. With 250 cards though, I wonder how many packs will be in booster boxes? If there is the same amount as in beta, might people end up buying less because it will be easier to cycle through and collect most of the cards? If it is less than beta, I hope the price reflects this as well.
Thanks for checking out the video! I also think 250+ cards will be a good size, also on top of the Meta, if this set has been carefully engineered and playtested we will probably get more use out of the 250+ cards than from an average release with 350 cards, because of the way rarity and deck building works in Sorcery. I think the set could support 36 packs with 15 cards in each, especially if there is a basic site in each pack to increase the site base for new players, but I wouldn't be opposed to the idea being suggested of 24 packs with 15 cards. With regard to people buying less boxes, the Sorcery team could also decide to turn some knobs on the rarity of foils or specifically Unique foils, the Curios will have some people cracking more, and if the chase knights end up being a set of several knights, I know a lot of people will want to complete the entire set of chase knights, and some will want to pull every card themselves, so I am not too worried about people buying less. I would expect that the price will be adjust, some at least, if the booster boxes end up having fewer pack/pack having fewer cards. 😉
I think people have a lot of different takes on the perfect set size, but specifically for Sorcery and this first expansion set, I think 250+ cards will work really well. In term of collecting I imagine there will be plenty to collect, perhaps more people will also get into collecting a foil set since the set is smaller than Alpha/Beta. The chase knights and Curios will also have people coming back for more I believe. 😉
Same! I might be slightly obsessed with the Curios, I just find them absolutely delightful! If I had more resources, I would definitely buy AP’s as I love the personal touch and the unique little piece of art, but alas we are but teachers. 😄
THANK YOU! i have been concerned about the size of the set since we got the news that it would be smaller. I personally think 200-249 is too small, 250 is bare minimum, and 251-299 is really good, 300 is perfect, 301+ is icing on the cake, imo, I'm obviously not leaving the game even if it is sub 200 cards, just really sad. Sadly at the time of this recording I will openly be able to get 1 box but i'm really hoping to save up for 3, 4 would be amazing.
Thank you for taking the time to watch and leave a comment, we appreciate it! 😉 I think as long as the depth of game is still being worked out for Alpha/Beta adding a new sets, perhaps with new avatars, we should have a lot of things to explore for the coming year. 😉 I hope you can get a box and explore this new set, or might get to an event and enjoy the set in draft or sealed! Hopefully we will be able to do giveaway with AL when we get to 3K subscribers. 🤞🏻
I think its a really good number and works really well.... right now. I just hope AL is balanced like the original set so there continues to be surprise decks and a no defined meta :)
Absolutely, that is the hope that the depth of card design continues to be developed in a way that there is a lot to explore. I really do think that if there are a couple of new Avatars and if they are distinct enough, it will give a lot new opportunities for gameplay.
Another thing the team could do was alternate between a really big set (300 cards plus) and then a set around 250-ish cards and plus a mini set, so a miniset every other year, which also allow artists for the minisets to have some more time to work on the project.
Thank you so much for checking out the video!
It would be better to do one set per year at 300+ cards. 350 is the sweet spot for optimal size of a ccg set. 350-400 for a core set, once every 3-5 years, and 300-350 for a yearly expansion set. 250 is a little bit small for a yearly set. Also, keep in mind, If Sorcery ever releases a set that contains fewer than 150 cards, the result could be devastating. And VOID forbid they release a 100-card set. That would destroy the market. Look at the set sizes of ABU, Legends, Ice Age, and the big Magic sets from the old days. Balance and power creep is another conversation.
We completely agree, even though we don't think every expansion needs to be 300+ cards. Maybe an alteration between 250, 300, 350 and 400 could be a solution. We also completely agree that under 250 cards would be a disaster for Sorcery, since there is only one yearly release. The sets needs to be big enough to keep both players and collectors engaged for a full year. That being said it is also worth noting that the size of a set itself isn't everything, it also depends on the cards, so we would prefer a heavily playtested set with 250+ cards, where all the cards are relevant, to a 350+ set, where for instance 50-70 of the cards are utter fillers.
So far Sorcery has found the sweet spot when it comes to balance and power (ok, sorry, Water), and we think that the grid offers many possibilities that makes power creep a little less problematic for Sorcery than other games.
I'm not really worried about Arthurian Legends size in terms of total Card Pool. I think the ~250 number is fine (if a little smaller than I would like) and it will keep ordinary/exceptional/elite secondary market prices WAY down because I think folks are ordering as much/more than they did of Beta, and there will be a lot of "bulk" listed.
I'm a little more worried about there not being any form of Precon for the set. I think the Beta Precons are fine, but I think there will be a disconnect for new folks looking to get into the game. If we get multiple Avatars (which I think we will) I'll happily try to brew some "precons" from among AL cards with comparable power level to the Betas, but it's not the same as a true entry-level product on the shelves of your LGS.
We are also a little sad that there won't be A.L. precons. It is a great entry product that new players can pick up, but it is also interesting for more established players that you get a site package and some stable cards to build from when designing your own constructed deck.
I think it's good they didn't make the set too big. For myself I only jumped in a few months ago. I'm not done yet with beta. Unfortunately I completely missed alpha. I'm not sure I can complete beta before the release of AL. So... A smaller set, for me, is perfect!
Welcome aboard :) We also think it is wise to have a bit of a smaller set when it comes to both collecting and gameplay. For collectors it is great that it won't be just as hard to collect a full set as alpha/beta, for players it is great to get new cards, but not get completely flooded and having to get to know a lot of new cards.
250 to 300 is perfect. If 300 is achievable with the same quality as alpha / beta then I'd prefer the higher number. But since all art is hand painted and Erik had a few years to collect the pieces for Alpha I'd say 250 is fine. Quality over quantity.
And with mini sets like the dragon set we can get that number a little bit higher.
Completely agree. We also think the sweet spot is around those numbers, with the possibility to shake it up a little and have for instance a 250 card set, a 300 card set and a 350 card set within 3 years (should average 300 cards per set). But 250 could also be great, depending on the mini set(s).
250 is fine. My concern is the basic land situation. Without precons, how will new players be able to put decks together?
Thank you for checking out the video.
Right now my best guess would be that they will have to reprint the Beta precons, or something like it to get enough sites out there for new players, or we might get some basic sites in AL. This was also a problem originally with Magic and we also spoke about this on the channel during the Kickstarter days, and this was one of the reasons having the precons was such a good solution for new players.
Singles are readily available and the basic sites are very cheap to come by second hand, but I fully realise for a new player that might not be a great option and adds more friction to get started with a new game, so I am hoping we might see a reprint of the Beta precons with an AL booster instead of a Beta one.
15 in the dragon set I thought it was 10? Do you guys have a in depth vid about this barely known about mini-set?
The number has been hovering around 10-15 for awhile, but I get the feeling that the set size has changed since the date was pushed. For now, the best insight can be had in Ed Beard Jr. Patreon, but the most we know is the that the set focuses on the Dragonlord and he has painted and revealed some paintings on livestream over at Collector Arthouse, but there isn't a lot of information on there right now.
The minute there is anything new, we will definitely update with a new video. 😉
If they released 2 sets a year I would say 250 cards per set is good but 1 set a year I think you need at least 300 cards minimum. That said if they release a supplemental product in between it won't be so bad.
Thanks for checking out the video!
I think 250+ cards is good deal on top of the huge Alpha/Beta set, and it still remains to be seen how much more than 250 cards we are getting exactly.
There will be the Dragonlord miniset, which some people are saying have grown in size, and that should release between AL and the next full set. 😉
I'm very excited for the new set but also concerned about how they plan to get new players engaged without having to invest heavily into beta and alpha. I hope they make more starter decks and convince more stores to carry their product as well.
Yeah, we have some of the same concerns. We know that there won't be any precons in A.L., but it is very possible that they just reprint the beta precons. We are also interested in lands in A.L. Will we see new ordinary lands, and if not, will lands from beta be in the packs? If not, how are new players going to be able to play Sorcery at all? But, knowing Sorcery, we are sure they have already got this covered and will inform us in due time.
It’s enough cards for a set the problem is the gap between sets and the poor stock levels. Many people didn’t get Beta and I have no game stores near me that stocked the game thus it is collection only for me. They really need to boost supply on the next set if they intend for the release to last a year.
I don’t know where you are located but EU stores will be getting a Beta reprint in August/September, and the US will get a limited restock in the fall as well.
I think one of the ways they are trying to fix the distribution and accessibility of Arthurian Legends in printing in waves to make the product available for longer.
Are you playing on TTS or on the gaming Discord set up to find local players in your area?
Plus.. how many cards will the mini dragon set add (15?)
So far that is what we have heard, but certain changes to the time frame had to change, so I don’t know if that is still the current plan. 😉
250+ Cards are fine because: Quality over Quantity
@@jayson_deen Absolutely, and those 250+ cards will also have a bigger impact if the play testing makes more of them interesting and playable.
For many modern TCGs sets might be bigger, but so incredibly many of the cards in up en bulk.
The way you deck build in Sorcery and the rarity limit also helps with using more of the Ordinaries and Exceptionals. 😉
AL giving us a 650+ card pool is going to be so much fun for deck building!
I am so excited to see what cards we get with AL! I am also wondering with things they might throw in, like types, that might be bridging towards later sets! 🤩
250 cards for an "expansion" is ok. I actually think we will be getting more Sorcery releases than just one a year. It's looking like 2 plus mini sets.. I think this card count will be fine for the first expansion. Then we got the Dragon Lord set coming out which will have more than expected..
Thanks for joining in the conversation!
As far as I know they have said the production is going faster now and a lot of things are more easy in terms of the team having established a routine.
However, I don’t think the team has said that they will make more sets per year, but who knows, it might happen because the capability to make cards has increased. 😉
I would be really interested in hearing where you have heard about a 2 plus a mini and that the Dragonlord set will have more cards?
@@CardboardGuide it's a secret.. 😉
@solargod03 No problem. 😉
I just can't wait for more cards that allow for more thematic decks over time.
I know there are some fun theme decks already, but I think that'll only become cooler as time goes on.
Now you are speaking my kinds of cardboard, that is a great point! 😉 I am also looking forward to being able to play more typal decks, wolves and to a lesser degree spirits and mortals are probably the only viable typal decks right now, and I hope that we get more cards for theme/typal decks as we get new sets. Thanks for checking out the video and leaving a comment, we appreciate it a lot!
I think AL is just right!
😄 Happy to hear it! Thanks for checking out the video!
Not sure if they noted or not if AL is an expansion makes sense to be smaller that way. Core sets are always larger. A year apart is. Along time for small pools so it depends on the next couple set sizes.
Unfortunately for me the way they handled beta really turned me off.
Indeed, expansion sets are always smaller, and 250+ cards is still within the range of a bigger set.
I also think we might see a larger set next year, and that they might alternate between a bigger and smaller set.
I also think the Beta was a bumpy road and not all of it was slowed in the best way, but I am still enjoying the game a lot. 😉
Might we be lucky enough that you will check back in with Arthurian Legends? ❤️
@@CardboardGuideto be honest I’m not sure. The only way as a customer to show my discontent with a company and how they handle business is to NOT give them any business. The game itself is fun and nice overall. But I don’t have enormous amounts of time to play so that is a push back. But again, the absolutely horrid distribution of the cards amongst the boxes and cases really left a sour taste in my mouth. Then they essentially printed as much as needed and seems to be plentiful. Which also to me doesn’t sit well. The “collectability” I don’t think will be where I want it to be and there are way too many variables amongst beta alone with 3 visually different versions.
I understand they are a new company but that doesn’t (for me anyway) mean unlimited grace or forgiveness.
I’m not sure I’ll continue with this game going forward. As of late I’ve been hiding in the shadows only checking in on things periodically. I will let it be organic. If they can draw me back in then it will say something. If they can’t then it just wasn’t meant to be.
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I think you have some really good points here and I also hope to see that the colours and cutting have been dialed in before Arthurian Legends, and hopefully stay more consistent also between the different waves. I hope we get to keep you in the game and I have enjoyed our conversations a lot, so hopefully there will be more and it would be interesting to keep getting your take on Sorcery. 😉
nice video !
Thank you for checking it out! We are super excited for the upcoming spoilers and going to SPIEL to see the Sorcery team and Arthurian Legends.
Better a 250 wf a nice theme, mechanics ect, than 300 wf repeating feature a rushed art pieces
@@uknow1311 I think this is spot on. More card doesn’t necessarily mean more playable cards, so I would rather have more well tested cards that are playable, than a ton of bulk from a bigger card pool.
@@CardboardGuide of course , the fact this game is played on a grid brings already lots of variety.
If people want cardboard they can go to mtg😂
The grid definitely adds a lot of variations in terms of gameplay and a whole other level of strategy.
If there are at least 8 avatars then its fine.
I think that there will be new avatars to explore gameplay in new ways, but for the sets size, I would expect something closer to between 4-6 Avatars, but who knows, it will be very interesting to see how many and what the new avatars focus on. Thanks for checking out the video. 😉
250 cards is too small for 1 year a set. From what I have observed in many LGS the community in sorcery has been dwindling down ever since the "summer" sorcery debacle. They need to inject more cards so that newer players will be more attracted to pick up the game. They should establish a bigger presence first in the LGS before doing any other things like those conventions. LGS will still be the bread and butter of any non-digital card games going forward.
Thank you for watching and leaving a comment.
The Sorcery team said that they never aimed to be the primary TCG, that they have become so is another things, so I think the idea is that you can’t take breaks and come back.
On the other hand, I think it is will be potentially dangerous if people completely disengage with the game, because there will always be the risk that people don’t come back.
I would also love seeing them having a bigger presence at more LGS’, but I do think that is something they are actively working to improve.
I think 250-300 is perfectly fine.
Also not so much played Avatars right now could get a boost with new cards or cards with different tresholds (maybe Elementalist)...or at this point Mono Water Decks are difficult to consist.with a few good cards Mono Water could get a thing.
Yeah looking forward to AL 😎😎✌️
Absolutely, it would be interesting to see some of the less used Avatars get some more play with new cards.
I also think if any of the elements need a little boost in order to see more play it would be water.
Very excited for Arthurian Legends, the cards, the gameplay, and of course the Curios.
@@CardboardGuide 😎✌️ yes!!
And also in that case we should think about how good they made it with using rarities in a Deck.If it is made like in Mtg the Strong Meta Decks wouldn't change THAT much but how they did it 1-2 really good cards could change a whole Deck in my opinion 🤷♂️🤷♂️😊😊
@CardArtChris Absolutely! Overall I think the game design lends itself well, and probably by design, to long term exploration, while staying interesting.
@@CardboardGuide 100% agree 🤠👍
It will be sifficiently big for now in conjunction with the card pool from beta. Future sets might need to be slightly bigger, at least some of them 😊
I think Arthurian legends is well sized, 250 sounds small but that's a lot of cards... It's a good first expansion size.
I really like the idea of mini sets. Being able to inject needed game pieces as and when they become needed or wanted can help to diversify the meta even further, while also preventing any necessary errata or bans (not that that has been an issue at all).
But this extends to the community too, supporting unsupported minion types or strategies that the fans end up liking more than EC probably expected (frogs for instance). It wouldnt need to be scheduled or too frequent, but 15 artists, 15 artworks, 15 cards, and hey presto new exciting gameplay and hopefully competitively viable decks. With 3 or 4 of these across the year, the annual wait for set release would be far less painful.
Just wanted to praise the mini set for a moment 🙏 carry on...
Thank you leaving such an interesting comment and checking out our video. 😉
I think it is a good size considering most players are still exploring the full depth of Alpha/Beta, and that Arthurian Legends will be layering on top on this set. I really like the concept of minisets as well, both letting a specific artist shine and really work on a theme or subject that they are known for or just really want to explore, creatively seems interesting and could really give a breath of fresh air between the full set releases. ❤️
I don't know that we would see 3 or 4 mini sets per year, but even one between larger set releases would really add a lot, and I think your idea of maybe expanding on beloved archetype or specific creatures would be a great idea to work from. I think we might want to do an entire video on mini sets, just based on this comment and thinking through all the different possibilities.
@@CardboardGuide definitely a topic I think players aren't talking about enough! Everyone's focused on main set releases and seemingly overlooking other announced products.
We know about the dragon mini set, and that's a popular archetype that does not have enough support to be viable by itself yet. We don't know what else they may be cooking up, and they may even be waiting to see what (if any) missing ingredients show themselves after the first two set releases before committing to other mini set themes.
Just spit balling some thoughts!
Really interesting, and we will be making a video on the possibilities of minisets and what the pros/cons would be, we hope you will want to check out the video and continue the conversations there!
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Thanks for the support! ❤️🙌🏻
This is half of Wizard's Assassins Creed set, and most consumers hate it. I know Sorcery is different, but with one set a year, this, at least to me, seems like a big fail.
Thank you for checking out the video.
Assassin's Creed is 100 cards (including 20 reprint, so only 80 new cards), Arthurian Legends is 250+ card, so I think you might have misunderstood something?
@CardboardGuide 250 unique cards? Or 250, and that includes alternate art as well?
@@MrRayRockstar Unique cards, Sorcery doesn’t do variants/frame. Just foil and non-foil. 😉
@CardboardGuide ok. Then, I guess the Sorcery community should be ok.
@MrRayRockstar I think it will work out nicely with the set size and the flavor of the sets looks absolutely amazing! 🤩
For me it depends on the previous set and the cards in it. But i prefer one set a year with around 300 cards and not too many mechanics.😉
I think that is actually a good point that we didn't touch on in the video, just I don't want to see, too much, power creep, I also really don't want to see a lot of new mechanics in every set. ;) Thank you for checking out the video!
I'd have to agree, about 275 to 300 and a mini set of 75 to 100 for 350 or 400 new cards per year. I think that the mini set released half way in between the main sets would scratch my itch. I can't wait for Arthurian Legends no matter the size 🎉😂
Also think we have to keep in mind that as we continue, even smaller card pools can add a lot of new combinations.
Indeed, especially with different strategies and new venues to explore or new synergies with old cards. 😉
Great video! I think that both Alpha and Beta have plenty of cards. 5th Edition for MtG had 449 cards and that set felt overwhelming. I think that AL will have plenty of cards to add to the current card pool and it also leaves lots of room hopefully to see how beta will interact with AL. Love the videos, keep the Sorcery content coming.
Thank you, we appreciate the kind words and you taking the time to check out the video! We completely agree, and I think the will be a lot of new game space to explore with Arthurian Legends! We have a lot of video lined up about Sorcery, as we are super excited about the game and especially AL!
6:40 Was just about to comment this. Early days of MTG, card counts in the expansion sets were barely enough to think of the product as an expansion. Only balanced by the fact that card packs back then didnt carry the default 15 cards most modern sets are known for today. 250+ cards is more than enough for the first auxiliary set to a game that already had a alpha product release that was over 100+ cards larger than MTGs original debut set. Itll be fine. What i am more concerned about is Erik and team making enough product so that there arent shortages or enough boxes to sustain the player base until next sets release. A year is a LONG time and youre already beginning to see the effects it has on the Beta release of the game. People cant get product and some are even beginning to lose interest. Gotta keep the new cards coming! Personally, I cant wait!
@@yumyumeatemup Thanks for taking the time to comment. 🙌🏻
I also think there is a difference in the fact that most modern TCG sets have so many cards that invariably end up in bulk.
With more careful testing and the rarity systems impact on gameplay, hopefully more cards are viable for play, which actually makes the set feel better.
Right now all the European stores have the option to preorder Beta wave 2, so hopefully we see more product here in EU around August/September.
I also think that they will have been working on better distribution of the product and getting into more stores. 🙏🏻
I am beyond excited and looking forward to seeing the product at SPIEL! 🔥🤩
I think this number will work as long as beta or another core release is available for purchase to supplement AL. Another option would be to create starter decks for the other avatars (price them a little more based on rarity) which would provide more introductory access to core set cards to use with AL.
Interesting, I personally hope that they will reprint the Beta precons, but ideally I would have loved new ones for AL, and change the single booster to AL.
I think there will be loads of Beta available (mostly singles, but also boxes) in the beginning with Arthurian Legends, and it will be playable as a standalone as well, so hopefully players will be able to build with Beta as well.
I feel "King of the realm" will be in almost every deck with how many mortals are being released. Also: Assorted Animals and Highland falconer is we see many beasts show up
That is interesting, I am curious to know what decks or strategies they will have to counter mortals that might balance it out.
Assorted Animals will probably see some more play, like we said in the video, it will interesting to see what cards will shine when AL hits. 🙌🏻
Thanks for checking out the video. ❤️
I dont have a full Beta-Set. So now I have to chase even more…wonderful 😍
@@Dexstar9 Let us know if we can help. 😉 If you are on Discord, send me a DM.
Seems perfect to me. Can't wait to see what secrets AL has in store for us!
Same for us! I think the set is big enough to provide a lot of extra cards and game space to be explored!
I am so excited to see the full set and for now I look forward to the next spoilers from the set!
theme sets around 300 cards seems fine
Thanks for checking out the video. So expansions/theme sets around 300-ish cards seem good, how about base/core sets, how often would you like to see those and what size would you expect them to be?
I love this channel, thanks !
Thanks, we appreciate the super kind feedback! 🙌🏻❤️
I think 250 is a fair amount of cards. You made a great point about the meta and strategies being very pliable if a new avatar is introduced too. With 250 cards though, I wonder how many packs will be in booster boxes? If there is the same amount as in beta, might people end up buying less because it will be easier to cycle through and collect most of the cards? If it is less than beta, I hope the price reflects this as well.
I made this comment too early haha. You addressed this point as soon as I finished the comment
Thanks for checking out the video!
I also think 250+ cards will be a good size, also on top of the Meta, if this set has been carefully engineered and playtested we will probably get more use out of the 250+ cards than from an average release with 350 cards, because of the way rarity and deck building works in Sorcery. I think the set could support 36 packs with 15 cards in each, especially if there is a basic site in each pack to increase the site base for new players, but I wouldn't be opposed to the idea being suggested of 24 packs with 15 cards.
With regard to people buying less boxes, the Sorcery team could also decide to turn some knobs on the rarity of foils or specifically Unique foils, the Curios will have some people cracking more, and if the chase knights end up being a set of several knights, I know a lot of people will want to complete the entire set of chase knights, and some will want to pull every card themselves, so I am not too worried about people buying less.
I would expect that the price will be adjust, some at least, if the booster boxes end up having fewer pack/pack having fewer cards. 😉
@@CardboardGuide Great points! I cannot wait until October 4th. Right before my birthday so hopefully I might get a box :)
@ragecody Exciting times indeed! Fingers crossed for an AL birthday box! 🎊🥳
I don't know enough about playing, so here I am paying close attention.
I think people have a lot of different takes on the perfect set size, but specifically for Sorcery and this first expansion set, I think 250+ cards will work really well.
In term of collecting I imagine there will be plenty to collect, perhaps more people will also get into collecting a foil set since the set is smaller than Alpha/Beta.
The chase knights and Curios will also have people coming back for more I believe. 😉
@@CardboardGuide the artist proofs and curios are literally my favorite cards, and that's saying a lot since I love so many of them.
Same! I might be slightly obsessed with the Curios, I just find them absolutely delightful!
If I had more resources, I would definitely buy AP’s as I love the personal touch and the unique little piece of art, but alas we are but teachers. 😄
THANK YOU! i have been concerned about the size of the set since we got the news that it would be smaller. I personally think 200-249 is too small, 250 is bare minimum, and 251-299 is really good, 300 is perfect, 301+ is icing on the cake, imo, I'm obviously not leaving the game even if it is sub 200 cards, just really sad. Sadly at the time of this recording I will openly be able to get 1 box but i'm really hoping to save up for 3, 4 would be amazing.
Thank you for taking the time to watch and leave a comment, we appreciate it! 😉
I think as long as the depth of game is still being worked out for Alpha/Beta adding a new sets, perhaps with new avatars, we should have a lot of things to explore for the coming year. 😉
I hope you can get a box and explore this new set, or might get to an event and enjoy the set in draft or sealed!
Hopefully we will be able to do giveaway with AL when we get to 3K subscribers. 🤞🏻