Full Frame Lenses on Crop Sensor Cameras Don't Work the Way You Think They Work
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 31 พ.ค. 2024
- Multiplying the focal length of a full frame lens by 1.5 will give you the field of view of that lens on a crop sensor (APSC) camera. However, it will give you the equivalent focal length and NOT the actual focal length.
Most importantly, the equivalent focal length doesn’t look exactly the same as the actual focal length. If you put a 14mm lens on a crop sensor camera (1.5 x 14mm = 21mm), the resulting image will look different than a 21mm lens on a full frame camera.
In addition to this, the background blur actually looks different when using the same aperture on a full frame camera and a crop sensor camera because we are dealing with an equivalent aperture.
Full frame lenses on Nikon are called FX. On a Canon full frame lenses are called EF and on a Sony they are called FE lenses.
Cropped sensor lenses (also known as APSC lenses) on a Nikon are DX. While on a Canon they are EF-S and on a Sony they are E lenses.
I am not an expert in lens construction and design. But you can see the results of my experiments and the differences in the sample images for yourself.
0:00 Full Frame vs Cropped
0:29 Different Look Same focal length
3:19 Does aperture change?
4:05 What is aperture?
5:06 Aperture on a crop sensor
6:37 Examples of aperture differences
10:10 Final thoughts
Photographic equipment that I often use:
Nikon D850: tinyurl.com/phototoolkitnikon...
Nikon D4S: tinyurl.com/phototoolkitnikonD4S
Nikon F6: tinyurl.com/phototoolkitnikonF6
Nikon 14-24mm F2.8: tinyurl.com/phototoolkitnikon...
Nikon 24-70mm F2.8: tinyurl.com/phototoolkitnikon...
Nikon 70-200mm F2.8: tinyurl.com/phototoolkitnikon...
Nikon 105mm F2.8 macro: tinyurl.com/phototoolkitnikon...
Nikon 300mm F4 PF: tinyurl.com/phototoolkitnikon...
Nikon 200-400 F4: tinyurl.com/phototoolkitnikon...
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No se puede multiplicar la longitud focal de la lente en 1.5 y eso es lo que se verá una lente en una cámara sensor de cultivos. La multiplicación no le da la longitud focal real. Y el borroso de fondo en realidad se ve diferente cuando se usa la misma abertura en una cámara de marco completa y una cámara de sensor de recorte. Echa un vistazo a la verdad sobre las lentes en las cámaras del sensor de cultivos.
您无法将镜头焦距乘以1.5，这就是镜头在裁剪传感器相机上的样子。乘法不会给你实际的焦距。当在全帧相机和裁剪传感器相机上使用相同的孔时，背景模糊实际上看起来不同。看看关于裁剪传感器摄像机上的镜头的真相。
Sie können die Linsenbrennweite nicht um 1,5 multiplizieren, und das ist, wie eine Linse auf einer Ernte-Sensorkamera ausgeht. Multiplizieren gibt Ihnen nicht die tatsächliche Brennweite. Und die Hintergrundunschärfe sieht tatsächlich anders aus, wenn Sie dieselbe Öffnung auf einer Full-Frame-Kamera und einer Crop-Sensorkamera verwenden. Schauen Sie sich die Wahrheit über Linsen an den Crop-Sensorkameras an.
Vous ne pouvez pas multiplier la longueur focale de la lentille par 1,5 et c'est ce qu'est une lentille ressemblera à une caméra de capteur de récolte. La multiplication ne vous donne pas la longueur focale. Et le flou d'arrière-plan a l'air différent lorsque vous utilisez la même ouverture sur une caméra pleine cadre et une caméra de capteur de culture. Découvrez la vérité sur les lentilles sur les caméras de capteur de culture.
Non è possibile moltiplicare la lunghezza focale dell'obiettivo entro 1,5 e questo è ciò che un obiettivo sarà simile a una fotocamera del sensore di coltura. Moltiplicando non ti dà la lunghezza focale reale. E la sfocatura dello sfondo sembra davvero diversa quando si utilizza la stessa apertura su una fotocamera full frame e una fotocamera del sensore di ritaglio. Controlla la verità sulle lenti sulle telecamere del sensore di coltura.
レンズの焦点距離を1.5倍増することはできません。そして、それはレンズがクロップセンサーカメラのように見えるものです。乗算はあなたに実際の焦点距離を与えません。そして、バックグラウンドブラーは、フルフレームカメラとクロップセンサーカメラで同じアパーチャを使用するときに実際には異なるように見えます。クロップセンサーカメラのレンズに関する真実をチェックしてください。
렌즈 초점 길이에 1.5를 곱할 수 없으므로 렌즈가 자르기 센서 카메라에서 렌즈처럼 보일 것입니다. 곱하기는 실제 초점 거리를 제공하지 않습니다. 그리고 배경 흐림 효과는 실제로 전체 프레임 카메라와 자르기 센서 카메라에서 동일한 조리개를 사용할 때 실제로 다릅니다. 자르기 센서 카메라의 렌즈에 대한 진실을 확인하십시오.
Δεν μπορείτε να πολλαπλασιάσετε το εστιακό μήκος του φακού κατά 1.5 και αυτό είναι που ένας φακός θα μοιάζει με κάμερα αισθητήρα καλλιέργειας. Ο πολλαπλασιασμός δεν σας δίνει το πραγματικό εστιακό μήκος. Και το φόντο του φόντου φαίνεται πραγματικά διαφορετικό όταν χρησιμοποιεί το ίδιο διάφραγμα σε μια κάμερα πλήρους πλαισίου και μια κάμερα αισθητήρα καλλιέργειας. Ελέγξτε την αλήθεια σχετικά με τους φακούς σε κάμερες αισθητήρων καλλιεργειών.
This is the clearest comparison and analysis of full frame sensor and APS-C I've seen. Thank you so much! Great examples and explanations! ❤👍
Thanks so much Camellia. I am so happy that it was really clear and helpful.
Definitely agreed. Thanks!
Ditto.
FINALLY!! I have been looking for an explanation like this for years! You are the only person who actually SHOWS this instead of just telling. Thank you!
I really appreciate your comment. I completely understand the value of seeing something! To be totally honest, I couldn't just accept something that I had been told and tell others the same thing. I had to try it out for myself for myself and actually see it. When I first compared the pictures, it made so much more sense and I could actually see the difference instead of trying to imagine it. Thanks again!
I have also been looking for an explanation with illustrations like this. So thank you very much.
@@thephotographytoolkit To meke the explaination even better it would have been nice to explain the physiks of light behind it as well. Intuitively one would imagen taht putting a full frame lens on a crop sesor camera would let much more light in even if the aperature is higher. But your video showed the exact opposite. I thing it has to do with the bigger sensor collecting all the light and the crop sensor only collecting a fraction of the light comng in but I dont understand all the details yet. I am still looking for a good answear to that. Anyway thanks for the video.
@@VR_Wizard I hope this explanation makes sense. When you put a lens on a camera, a circle of light is projected onto the camera's sensor. When that lens is a full frame lens, the circle of light will be large enough to cover all the edges of the 24mm x 36mm full frame sensor. There are parts of the circle that don't hit the sensor.
When you put that same full frame lens on a crop sensor camera, the same amount of light comes through that lens as it would if it were on a full frame camera. The amount of light coming through the lens doesn't change. The circle of light from that lens is the same size, it is just being projected onto a smaller cropped sensor (16mm x 24mm for a Nikon camera).
If you have a piece of paper and a flashlight you can create an example of what I am talking about. Stick a piece of paper (which represents your full frame sensor) to a wall and shine the flashlight (representing the light coming through your lens) onto the paper. Make sure the light covers all 4 corners of the paper. Don't move the flashlight. Now draw a smaller rectangle on your piece of paper that is about 2/3 the size of the paper. That represents the cropped sensor. The same amount of light is coming through the lens; it is just that less of that light is hitting the sensor.
The video at the bottom of this page may help illustrate what I am trying to say: www.nikonusa.com/en/learn-and-explore/a/products-and-innovation/the-dx-and-fx-formats.html
@@thephotographytoolkit Your explanation makes sense but I still dont understand why the apperature changes by simply using another sensor. You make a calculation in the video and the result shows it is a different f value and images show it too but the physics behind it are not clear to me. I dont know why that is what happens to the light rays to result in a differen bokeh effect.
Finally a video that illustrates that multiplying the focal length by the aps-c crop factor does not produce the same amount of perspective distortion when it's applied on full frame. In other words, 18mm on an aps-c might have the same angle of view as 24mm on full frame, but the two images will feature different flatness of perspective typical of their respective focal lengths
Thanks so much Martin.
How can it have different perspective distortion? Perspective distortion only depends on the position of the camera. It doesn’t depend on focal length or sensor size.
@@mynameisben123 You are correct that sensor size doesn't affect distortion. However, focal length does affect distortion. If I use a 14mm wide angle lens and a 50mm lens from exactly the same position, the distortion will be different. This is especially true when something is close to the camera. You can see the difference in this part of my video: th-cam.com/video/n-wR1FjWXSs/w-d-xo.html
No, the perspective is the same. The difference was because he chose a very wide angle lens and shot close when the optical center did not remain at the same location.
How could the prospective be different if the angle of view and distance are the same?
@@okaro6595 perspective distortion
2:04 Comparing the 14mm and the 21mm on the same FF sensor is NOT the same as comparing 14mm FF to the 21mm crop. The difference in perspective is not due to the actual focal length, but instead how far/close the camera is to the subject. Since you're comparing 14mm and 21mm on the same FF sensor, you have to move further away from the subject with the 21mm, thus the perspective change. On the other hand, if you have a 21mm crop lens you will have the same perspective as the 14mm FF because you would stay on the same spot.
Thanks for the comment. I am not totally sure I understand what you are trying to say.
But I just want to clarify a few things. First of all, the point of my video is that you can't just multiply the focal length of a full frame lens when you put it on a APSC camera and get the same image as you would on a full frame sensor. Many photographers I have talked to think that you will get the same image but you won't.
Secondly, the images of the 14mm FF lens on an APSC sensor camera is captured in from exactly the same place as the 21mm FF lens on a FF sensor at 2:04. I haven't moved at all in any of the comparison photos.
The whole point is to not move my camera further or closer away. That changes what I am trying to demonstrate.
Thanks
Ah okay, sorry I was not familiar with the Nikon's DX FX system, so I thought it was the 14mm a FF sensor. I think the reason the 14mm on ASPC looks a little bit different is because of the lens distortion. Have you tried corrected the image in post? Lenses have nothing to do with perspective warping, it's the distance from the camera that matters.
@@whitelion204 Thanks for the response. You mention lens distortion and correcting the image in post. But I am not sure how I would do that. The 14mm on an APSC sensor and the 21mm on the full frame sensor at 2:04 look very different even though they are captured from the exact same spot. The blur in the background is very different and the position of the plant and the building compared to the foreground subject are different. Is that something that could be corrected in post? That doesn't seem possible to me. Thanks
@@thephotographytoolkit I looked at the photo on the 14mm again, and I'm pretty sure there's a barrel distortion going on. You can go to the Lens Corrections section in LR (or Capture One) and correct in manually. If you're unable to do that, I suggest you do the comparison again but on longer focal length, such as 50mm or longer, since on the long end there will be much less lens distortion.
About the depth of field - you are correct. Since you're effectively using a shorter focal length on the APS-C, the DOF would be thicker and the bokeh would be less blurry. But other than that - there should be no difference.
@@whitelion204 Thanks for the reply and for sharing your thoughts Duy.
Wow great, I’ve been looking for this explanation regarding the aperture values and how they change having just bought an aps-c viltrox 27mm1.2 for my full-frame sony
I'm glad the video was helpful.
although your video is 100% correct, there is something I would want to add to your video, which a LOT of beginners get wrong talking about equivalent apertures and focal length.
The change in background blur is tied to 3 things : the focal length (the logner it is, the shallower the DOF is), the focusing distance (the closer it is, the shallower the DOF is), and the aperture (the wider it's opened, the shallower the DOF is). Calculating the equivalent aperture is basically the same thing as emulating what lens you WOULD need on a full frame camera to reproduce the exact same image, with the same depth of field and background blur.
For example, when going from 300mm to a 4500mm equivalent focal length using the same lens but smaller sensor, the equivalent aperture is smaller, because a "real" 450mm lens, due to its longer focal length (and wider aperture, that's tied to the focal length anyway) would have a shallower depth of field and a blurrier background than a 300mm lens opened at teh same aperture, therefore we need to close it to match.
BUT
A lot of people are taking this too literally. The quantity of light delivered by the lens is a matter of density of surface (amount of photons per unit of surface), meaning that this varies the exact same way on the whole image circle of the lens as you change the aperture. The pixels of an APS-C sensor will recieve the same amount of light as the pixels of a full frame sneos, only difference is that on the full frame camera there is more of them, on a larger area. What this blabber means is that it's not because you change the format of the sensor that you suddenly get less light. An F/4 lens will have the same exposure throughout the whole sensor, no matter if it's full frame or APS-C. The confusion people make with the equivalent aperture is that it reduces the amount of light you get, because instinctively "f/6 is less light than f/4". Except it DOESN'T have anything to do with exposure, it's all just a matter of depth of field and trying to match the redition of the image. Exposure has NOTHING to do with it, yet I still see people around the internet convinced that you get more light and a brighter exposure on a full frame camera.
You don't.
Thanks so much for your comment. I totally agree with everything you have said.
I understand that when someone hears an equivalent aperture of F6 they might think that there is less light than F4. The key is for these people to fully understand that equivalent doesn’t mean actual. And like you said, it doesn’t matter if it is APS-C or full frame - there is the same amount of light hitting the sensor. Thanks again for sharing.
False, changing formats does reduce the total amount of light. You get the same exposure (i.e. light/m^2), but the total signal obtained is different due to difference in photons captured.
The equivalent aperture not only denotes the expected DoF comparison, but also ISO performance across sensor formats. E.g. APSC = 1 stop less, MFT = 2 stops less. You can even look up Matteo Sulanto's video where the compared the noise performance across different formats. The following images will have the exact same amount of noise and about the same DoF.
Full frame at ISO 1600, f6
APSC at ISO 800, f4
MFT at ISO 400 f3.2
If things were so magical and the change in sensor format doesn't affect the image, we would be printing Nat Geo worthy Milky Way shots from an iPhone.
The formula for depth of field is:
D = s / (1 ± N × 0.03 / c × (1000 × s - f) / f²)
s: the distance (meters)
N: the aperture value
c: the crop factor
f: the focal length (mm)
Where 0.03 mm is the acceptable circle of confusion on full frame. The + gives the near limit and the minus the far limit (if negative or division by zero then it is infinity). The crop factor affects but it is not in the direction people think. With same focal length and distance the depth of field on smaller sensor is less as the image is magnified more. (Note the subject of course cannot be same. The subject is not relevant. Your cat is not in the formula)
What people do not get that there is a third component: equivalent ISO. For the simplicity lets assume the crop factor is 2 and the sensor is 3:2 (I know there are no such sensors but this is just an example):
50 mm f/4 ISO 200 is equivalent to 100 mm f/8 ISO 800. These would produce very close to identical results. Note on equivalent ISO one has to use the crop factor squared.
Your explaination is very details and clear. Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge Dave Caleb.
Thanks so much Paul!
Thanks for demonstrating the 200mm looking the same on a DX camera as it does when cropped in post from a FX camera. I've had that argument way too many times with people who claimed there was a difference.
Happy to help. You are absolutely right. Crop (DX) sensor is just a crop of a full frame sensor when both have the same lens.
I just saw this video and am happy to see someone on TH-cam get this right. Too many people think that a 100mm lens is the equivalent of a 160mm lens when you put it on an APS-C camera. Thanks for getting this correct.
Thanks Jim. Like you, I have come across too many people who misunderstand what happens when you use a full frame lens on an APSC camera and that is why I made the video. I am glad it was correct.
I really like how you took the time to put in alternating photos for comparison. I think that you were the only one who did this in all the FF / APSC and crop factor videos.
Thanks so much! I really enjoyed doing the comparison as it helped me to better understand the differences.
Just came across this video/channel Hit the sub button, as a professional photographer I think you have explained it well, I would add just 2 things when comparing different sensor sizes the Aperture effects Depth of Field, where Exposure remains the same F/4 is F/4 weather you are shooting on "Full Frame" or Large Format. but it is explained well (I'd just change the wording to Depth of Field)
The way I have tried to explain it is for example, a 56mm F/1.4 on a Crop camera, gives you the eqv. angle of view as an 85mm on a full frame camera but the depth of field of a 56mm F/1.4 on a full frame camera.
And a rule of thumb (not exact, but no calculator required) if you want the equivalent DOF of a full frame camera, you need to use a lens 1 stop faster on a crop sensor, 2 stops faster on M4/3, and 1 stop slower on Digital medium format (e.g. Fujifilm GFX)
Thanks so much for the comment and for subscribing Andrew! Also thank you for the recommendations for improvements.
This is an incredible video. You anticipated every question I had and everything comparison I wanted to see, thanks a ton.
Thanks so much Greg. I really appreciate your comment.
You’re a great teacher - finally I understand why my canon rebels look so zoomed.
Thanks so much for the kind comment. I am glad it was clear.
After 50 years as a photojournalist, I found your video very important and well done, Bravo David
Thanks so much Carmine! I really appreciate the comment!
Wow, superb explanation which never seen before. 👏🏻👏🏻 Great info, thanks a bunch ❤
Thanks so much for the very kind comment.
best explanation online! Thank you.
Thank you SO much! I really appreciate the positive feedback!
The best video I have found about this topic! I need this to really understand the focal length equivalence.
Thanks a lot!!!
I am so happy that it has helped you to understand focal length equivalence. You are very welcome. Thanks so much for the comment!
Thank you so much David for the awesome explanation of math behind the using lenses on crop sensor cameras! Very helpful and informative for me. God bless you and good luck!
Thank you so much for the comment Nate! I am really happy that all the work put into the video is helpful.
Only thing you really need to know these days is that a crop camera is really the best for macro, astro, and telephoto wildlife photography that doesn't have ultra low light needs. FF does do well in low light, but doesn't have crop factor. To me, crop factor is a benefit, a feature, that I use tremendously to my advantage. Modern cropped cameras do not suffer the same noise issues of days past, so the only limiting factors are really whether you want a bigger or smaller image circle. And yes, cropped cameras do bring changes to depth of field, but most lenses can be adjusted accordingly. I almost never shoot macro at F2.8 or wildlife at F4 anyways. The better DOF actually benefits you in wildlife shots and macro too.
Thanks for the comment. I totally agree with everything you are saying. I am definitely not saying that full frame cameras are better than APSC/crop sensor cameras. I own both and use both. I use my crop sensor cameras for wildlife and sports all the time. The whole point of the video isn't which sensor size it better. The point is that people often think that if they have a 60mm lens on an APSC/crop sensor camera, that it will look the same as a 90mm lens on a full frame camera and it won't. That is all. Thanks again for your contribution.
Excellent treatise on crop sensor lens characteristics. Thank you.
Thanks Berny
Spot on. However in real use terms the grammar of the shots being taken will be dictated by the camera. The photographer will be aiming to produce a particular feel in an image with the camera and lens in use. The need to do a mathematical equivalence conversion is not how we work in reality. Someone working between two formats is aware of what works in each format and how to create the image in each format. An APSC photographer will still choose their lenses for the effect that they produce and a 300mm full frame lens will produce the same field of view as a 300mm APSC lens if both are being used on the same APSC body. That photographer will be aware of what that looks like and it’s fine to use either lens. The photographer won’t be using it as a 450mm lens. I think the confusion comes from the idea that you have to know the equivalent, you don’t. Just use the lenses that work for the shot in the format you are in for the effect that you need.
Really well said Christopher. Totally agree with you. And that is why I own and use both full frame sensor cameras and APSC sensor cameras. Thanks for your insightful comment.
You did an excellent job explaining it, thank you! Indirectly, this also explains why we’re unlikely to see FF lenses any smaller than they are now unless we find a way to bend the laws of physics. If I had to make any suggestions for your future videos, I think it would be better if you put the photos side by side so viewers can better see the differences instead of just switching them. Anyway, keep up the good work.
Thanks Kashii. I appreciate the comment and recommendation.
Thank you so much for this!
Question; do I need to take these things into consideration if I opt for an ASPC lens?
In other words, is f2.8 on a crop lens still equivalent to 4.2 on a full frame?
Thanks for the question about APS-C lenses. You are correct - an f2.8 lens will have an equivalent aperture of f4.2 on a full frame camera.
2:20 there is more blur on the full frame lens as the aperture is bigger. The other differences are because some optical differences in the lens design like where the optical center of the lens is and are because the subject is so close. Generally there is a principle that cropping produces same results as increasing the focal length if issue like image quality and background blur are ignored.
Te f stands for focal length. It is written as for example f/2 because the aperture size is the focal length divided by two.
Thanks so much for your comment Okaro. I totally understand that when the lens is zoomed the elements move and the optical center of the lens changes. A number of people who I have spoken with believe that a lens (ex. 14mm) on an APSC sensor camera will give you the same look as the equivalent focal length (ex. 21mm) on a full frame camera. So I wanted to show the differences.
GREAT EXPLANATION!
Got it now, I was always assuming APSC cameras "zoomed in" so if you have a 35 it'll act like a 50.
When it only crops it, thereforeit is only "looking" like a 50 in terms of FOV or angle of view.
Thanks so much! You have got it exactly!
Thank you!!! I finally understand this! I’ve bought 2 FF lenses thinking I’d eventually upgrade to FF from crop sensor. But I really stuggle feeling satisfied with my current work because often I’m not achieving that buttery (1.4-2.8ish) background that I desire. I may just want to get a crop sensor lens after all to achieve it OR it’s just time to get a full frame body! Thank you, best explanation ever.
Thanks so much for your comment Selah. I am really glad that it helped you understand lenses with FF and APSC/crop sensors. The other great thing about a FF camera is when you are using the same lens, you need to be closer to your subject to get the same framing as when using the same lens on an APSC/crop sensor camera. The closer you are, the blurrier the background.
Thanks, convincing set-up & test - never saw anything about the crop/aperture-thing that clear.
Thanks so much. I am happy that it was clear and convincing.
Best explanation on crop vs full frame. Thank you!
Thanks so much.
Super informative, been contemplating better glass for now and then getting going full frame later. One question, is the focus point the in the same place on the Buddha? It seems that it shifted from the left eye to the right eye between FX and DX. Just wondering if that could have made a difference with focus breathing?
Regardless, great video. Thanks for putting this together!
Thanks for the comment TJ. When I did the comparison, I turned everything to manual including the focus so it shouldn't have changed at all. Where exactly in the video are you seeing the shift? Thanks!
Thank you so much for this video!! It helped me a lot! Been looking at forums and i couldn't understand by reading. Your explanation is awesome!!
Quick question, with the difference in aperture and bokeh effect, does it mean the amount of lights let in is much lesser as well while using a FF lense on a apsc camera?
I am glad that the video helped you Gary!
The amount of light is exactly the same as the size of the aperture is the same. The reason the bokeh effect is different when the cameras are in the same spot is because of the focal length is different. I hope that helps.
@@thephotographytoolkit THANK YOU SO MUCH! I LOVE YOUUUU
@@coachgaryang Happy to help Gary.
but how do you get zooms with a constant aperture? the vocal length changes but not the opening?
That is a really great question! When you zoom a lens with a constant aperture, the size of the aperture changes as you zoom. So when zooming a 70-200mm f2.8 lens starting at 70mm and zooming to 200mm you can see the aperture inside the lens getting bigger as you zoom.
Yeah; this subject was originally covered by Tony & Chelsea Northrup some years back. They too failed to make it clear that although the depth of field will not be the same, the exposure most certainly is: Viewers, the aperture is exactly what it says on the lens, so don’t go thinking you have to alter your exposure by any crop factor. The depth of field will be different simply because to achieve the same size image of the same subject, your camera to subject distance will be different, and therefore your focus distance will be different. This is not an issue, it’s just a difference. Remember, “full frame” is a misnomer, simply referring to a sensor size the same size as a 24x36mm shot from a “full frame” on 35mm film. That though, is really the equivalent of a crop from a medium format sensor, which is still not the real deal, because that is a crop from a larger “plate” film. And so on, etc. To sum up, I believe the easiest way to think of this would be to say that “in order to achieve a similar depth of field effect using a full frame lens on a crop sensor camera you would also need to multiply the aperture by the crop factor. NOT for exposure, just for depth of field comparison.” This makes things sound too complicated though, and I suggest just take the shot as you normally would, look at it, and adjust your aperture as necessary to achieve more or less depth of field”. My point is that this and the Northrup video is introducing a complexity where none exists.
Thanks for the comment. You are absolutely correct that the exposure doesn’t change when you use a crop sensor or full frame sensor. As you are aware, and as I mention in my video, a crop sensor is just a crop of a full frame. So, to me, it makes sense that the exposure doesn’t change. And that is maybe why I didn’t mention it - because I thought it was obvious. I guess I could have been more clear as to all the aspects of crop sensor vs full frame including exposure. To be completely honest, exposure isn’t the thing that people get confused about because they can see for themselves that it doesn’t change.
What photographers do often get confused about is the focal length of a full frame lens when it is put on a crop sensor camera. Many photographers think that a full frame 200mm F4 lens on a crop sensor camera IS a 300mm F4 lens. But if you put a 200mm F4 lens on a crop sensor camera and compare it to a 300mm F4 lens on a full frame camera (both in exactly the same spot) the images will be different. The 300mm F4 lens will have a blurrier background. You can see the difference in this part of the video: th-cam.com/video/n-wR1FjWXSs/w-d-xo.html
You said “The depth of field will be different simply because to achieve the same size image of the same subject, your camera to subject distance will be different, and therefore your focus distance will be different.”
However, in my examples, the camera has NOT moved. I have the SAME camera to subject distance. I have the SAME focus distance. What has changed in the focal length of the lens and the size of the sensor. So a 14mm lens on a crop sensor camera will have a different look than a 21mm lens on a full frame sensor camera even though they have equivalent focal lengths and are captured from exactly the same spot. You can see the differences at this part of the video: th-cam.com/video/n-wR1FjWXSs/w-d-xo.html
You also said “I believe the easiest way to think of this would be to say that ‘in order to achieve a similar depth of field effect using a full frame lens on a crop sensor camera you would also need to multiply the aperture by the crop factor.’” I did say this when explaining equivalent apertures here: th-cam.com/video/n-wR1FjWXSs/w-d-xo.html
At the end of the day, what I was trying to demonstrate in this video was that even though a crop sensor camera gives you a longer equivalent focal length (ex 200mm x 1.5 = 300mm), the image will not look the same as an equivalent full frame focal length lens (in this case 300mm) on a full frame camera captured from exactly the same spot. I wasn’t attempting to demonstrate anything to do with exposure simply because the exposure doesn’t change.
Thanks again for your comment.
Maybe they did not make it clear to you but they did to me. Just because you do not get something does not mean it is wrong. Yes the aperture does not change anywhere but neither does the focal length. The point in their videos were that you have to use the equivalence on all three: focal length, aperture and ISO if you use it.
Now in practice when I shoot my G9 X I do think the equivalent focal length but never the equivalent aperture but then I do not consider things like bokeh. It is not a tool for such use.
@@okaro6595 On the other hand, aperture is the main tool to control and adjust background blur, so not quite sure what you mean.
Great video! If I got a cent every time someone gets this wrong on youtube I'd be able to afford a Leica.
Thanks so much Terry. I enjoyed testing out the photos myself and seeing the results.
This answered the exact question I was asking. The new Sony ZV-E1 dropped and I have a 14mm 1.8. Wondered if I could use that 14mm instead of my Samyang 18mm or Sony 20mm, but this video helped illustrate that it's probably best to go with the longer lenses for vlogging. Thought maybe I could use the 14mm and zoom in as needed to avoid distortion, but this video illustrated to me that's certainly not the case as the distortion will still remain, you'll just see less of it in the crop.
I am really happy that the video answered your question!. Thanks so much for the comment.
The video was very informative and easy to understand. I appreciate the effort you put into making such a clear and concise explanation
Thanks so much Duc. I am glad that it is clear. I did enjoy capturing and comparing the images that really helped to illustrate the idea that I was trying to explain.
Whao, I've learnt a lot with this explanation and now many things make more sense. Thank you very much.
I am really happy that it was helpful. Thanks so much for the kind words.
That summ it well, correct me if i am wrong, we are only talking about aparture depth of field due to change in focal length of apsc and full frame does that affect landscape photography? I think i don't need shallow depth of field when i am shooting at f10 and beyond and i still get full frame image size on apsc wide angle lens
I think if you are using really small apertures you probably won't see much of a difference.
The best explanation on YT about how aps-c affects bokeh. Thank you.
Thank you so much for your kind words! I really appreciate it.
Wow, the best explanation of this topic I've seen yet.
Thanks so much Christian. Your comment made my day.
Great explanation, helped me a lot.
One question tho: As you mentioned FF F4 “looks” like F6 on APSC . Does it also mean decrease in lowlight capturing capacity on Cropped sensor?
Great question Shiva. The lowlight capacity is no different on a full frame sensor or a cropped sensor. The amount of light coming through the lens is the same.
It is just that the 'equivalent aperture' is different. That means F4 on FF will look like F6 on APSC.
@@thephotographytoolkit thanks a lot 🙏 😊
@@shivashrestha1061 Happy to help Shiva.
This has very interesting implications for medium and large format photography.
Thank you, I'm glad I watched your video!
Thanks so much for the comment. I totally agree. Most people talk about equivalence when it comes to full frame vs APSC but it gets really interesting with medium format. For example, I have Fujifilm GFX 50R and it has a 100mm F2 lens. You need to reduce the focal length and aperture to get the equivalence for a full frame camera. So that 110mm f2 lens has an equivalent focal length of 87mm and equivalent aperture of f1.7 when compared to full frame. You can see more here: shuttermuse.com/fujifilm-gfx-crop-factor-and-gf-lens-35mm-full-frame-equivalent-focal-lengths/
@@thephotographytoolkit Awesome article!
Yes you could think of 35mm as a crop of larger formats too. the same rules apply. My subject shot at a given focal length will objectively look the same size on every format. All I'm doing by changing the focal length is making the subject larger or smaller relative to the total size of the negative. Same thing with the DOF. If I just made the image circle of a 35mm camera lens larger and projected it onto a larger negative, then shrunk that down to the size of the 35mm negative, it would like like I was shooting larger aperture and from farther away.
It's all clear now, thank you again!
@@mackenlyparmelee5440 Happy to help! Thanks so much for your comment and for sharing.
As a beginner, this is very informative. Now, I will consider the aperture using the APS-C sensor.
I am glad it was useful. Thanks for sharing!
Whether you use FF or APS-C just get a zoom lens! With a zoom lens you can replicate a wide range of typical FF v APS-C fixed lens outcomes just by using the zoom and changing where you stand, regardless of whether you are using FF or APS-C. Regardless of effective / actual f/stop, lens focal length, etc, it's the outcome we want to get.
No-one has ever said to me, "Oh, you took that with a zoom lens." Never.
Oh I hear you saying. 1. Loss of IQ. Maybe. I've been using zooms since 35mm film days in the 1980s. They've improved a lot since then. 2. Zooms don't usually come in F1.4 so can't get good bokeh. In many cases, you can even with a F5.6 zoom lens. Step back and use a longer focal length. You can also fix some background issues in software. 3. Auto focusing issues. Maybe in rare low light. 4. Can't see enough in the viewfinder. Never a problem on my DSLR with mirror. Irrelevant on my mirrorless.
FF sensors v APS-C sensors? The gap is closing. As APS-C quality improves, the prices for each are getting closer to each other. So that choice may not be that relevant in the future. What will be relevant is that it costs less to make an APS-C only lens. Mirrorless has also reduced costs. Decades ago 35mm film brough us cheaper and better lenses versus the larger format 620/120 roll film.
I've backed both! RP (FF) + 24-240 and an R50 (APS-C) + 100-400. I have an 'effective' range of 24-636mm and an overlap from 160mm - 240mm. Beauty is 1. Both those are FF lenses so I can interchange. 2. I'm not fiddling around with changing lenses in hostile environments. Those two zooms are FF yet competitively priced against APS-C only lenses. IQ is quite good.
Thanks for the comment John. I think that some people think that I am trying to say that I don't like APSC or that full frame is better and that couldn't be further from the truth. I own and love APSC cameras.
I also think it is great that you had this internal dialogue about what I would say. And you assumed I would disparage zooms or think zooms are inferior. I love zoom lenses! I own a ton of them and use them every day. I agree that no one has ever said to me that I captured an image with a zoom lens.
I have talked with a number of people who say that their 70-200mm f2.8 lens full frame lens is a 105-300mm f2.8 lens. So I did a lot of research and tests and I am just sharing what I have found out in these tests and what I have learned. No harmful or malicious intentions towards any sensor size or zoom lens. I promise.
The point of my video is that you can't just multiply the focal length of a full frame lens when you put it on a APSC camera and you will get the same image as you would on a full frame sensor. A 14mm FF lens on a APSC camera will look different than a 21mm lens on a FF camera. That is all.
@@thephotographytoolkit
I made no assumptions at all. None.
My comment (six hours ago as I type) was for the broader audience.
My comment re FF was about the use of the name FF and not comparing the merits of different formats.
The debate of FF V APS-C was clear about 10 years ago. That's now changed. The lines are now very blurry. In many cases it's horses for courses. ie Pick the format and lens according to the subject matter you usually shoot and your budget.
Whilst a 14mm FF on an APS-C may not be the same identical image as 21mm (or 22.4mm for Canon) on FF, it is possible to make very close matching images by changing standing position, focal length and f/stop. Other videos have shown examples. A zoom lens simply makes this easier to do.
Others are debating on other web pages about whether to use FF lens on APS-C. Once again it is possible to get very close matches of images with both FF lenses and APS-C lenses on APS-C. Again zoom lenses make this easier to do.
The bottom line is simple. Have you got what you want? If not, instead of following the blind mantra about what equipment you need to buy, consider equivalents in what you have. Again much easier with zooms. No need for maths. Just look at the image. Is that what you want? If not, change something - where you are standing, focal length & f-stop. The effect of ISO and shutter speed can be considered separately. Extension rings are also another cheap variable.
You may not need a fast lens for good bokeh. Might be/seem easier. But what you have may be able to do something similar. Especially if you consider your background before taking the shot!
@@johnwinter6061 Thanks for the clarification John.
It was Great time to watch your explanations. Some photographers continue to say only Length (MM) exchanged in Crop sensor cams and F keep the same value. So now will argue with them (50mm F2,8 =. 75mm F4,2) Thank you.
Thanks so much Al.I'm glad it was helpful.
Great explanation! Thanks you!
Glad it was helpful Michel!
superb explanation! thank you!
You are more than welcome. I am glad it was helpful.
This is the best video ever made on TH-cam
Thanks so much for the wonderful comment! I'm happy that all the hard work I put into the video was worth it.
Very nice, I watch many videos about this subject, but your video is explain with pictures every informative and easy to understand!
Thanks so much for the comment! I really appreciate it and I am glad it was easy to understand. Nhân tiện, tôi đã sống ở Việt Nam được 6 năm. Bây giờ tôi sống ở Singapore.
Hey thankyou so much for the explanation 😊. i have a question. i bought the Sony Zv e10 apsc camera and tried a Sony 35mm f1.4 gmaster full frame lens on it and liked the look of it. so which apsc lens i should buy to get the near around same look ? will the 35mm apsc version give me the same shots or something else?? would appreciate your inputs on this. Thankyou !!
I don't know Sony lenses very well. But to get the same field of view as a full frame 35mm F1.4 you will need to get a lens with a focal length of around 23mm (35mm / 1.5). To get an equivalent aperture of F1.4 that APSC lens would need to have an aperture of F0.93 (F1.4 divided by 1.5).
No one makes a 23mm lens with an aperture of F0.93.
The closest is some APSC lenses that have a 23mm F1.4 lenses
There is a Sigma 23mm f/1.4 DC DN Contemporary Lens
www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1757614-REG/sigma_348965_23mm_f_1_4_dc_dn.html
Or a Tokina atx-m 23mm f/1.4 Lens
www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1669890-REG/tokina_atx_m_af23e_atx_m_23mm_f_1_4_lens.html
Or a TTArtisan 23mm f/1.4 Lens
www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1675248-REG/ttartisan_a35bs_e_23mm_f_1_4_aps_c_lens.html
And finally a Viltrox AF 23mm f/1.4 E
www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1577730-REG/viltrox_af_23_1_4_fe_e_mount_af_23mm_f_1_4_xf.html
I don't know any of these lenses but they will not give the look of a 35mm F1.4 lens based on the aperture difference alone.
@@thephotographytoolkit oh thankyou so much for your inputs 😇🙏🏻
@@sg7608 You're welcome!
35mmx1.5 or 35mm/1.5?@@thephotographytoolkit
@@mariorodolfo1112 You're right. I was mistaken. It is 35mm / 1.5
I have a question as I'm still a lil confused. I'm planning to get a 35mm lens for my Fuji Xt3 (apsc) for videos as I like the "natural" look of the 35mm focal length. Would a 23mm lens gives the same look (distortion, feel, etc.) as the 35mm, or just the field of view as explained in this video?
Great question. A 23mm lens on a apsc sensor would give you the same field of view as a 35 mm lens on a full frame camera but not the same look (distortion, aperture blur, etc)
@@thephotographytoolkit thank you :)
@@akmalramlan Happy to help.
You like the natural look of the 35 mm lens? On what sensor? If you mean on full frame then 23 mm would give the same on APS-C.
yeap, you're right. It was quite annoying when big channels say it's not a different, it's different.
Thanks so much for your comment and support.
Really well explained! I found your video because recently I was hyped for trying some of my lenses on a crop sensor but then I realised that, as you said, the images you get are exactly that - cropped - and not results of extended lens capabilities. The way I explained it to myself is that you cannot extend the physical characteristics (the optics/optical limits) of a lens simply by changing to a cropped (that is, a limited) sensor camera. There are physical limits to a lens and a (limited/cropped) sensor cannot change the properties of a lens, therefore it only made sense that what you get on your memory card is just a fragment of the same image taken with a full sensor.
However, taking advantage of the equivalent focal length does spare me from having to buy a TS 24mm, at least for the time being :D (still need to test this, though - and I pray it's not going to be completely useless :D )
P.S. Great info about the aperture, and the "equivalent" focal length.
Thanks so much Diana. I like the way you explained it. You are right, the properties of the lens don't change. What are your plans for the TS 24mm? I have 19mm PC Nikon lens but I haven't tried it on a crop sensor camera.
@@thephotographytoolkit hey, you’re welcome, David!
What I’m trying to achieve with a 17 mm TS lens (1.6 crop factor takes it to 27mm, so slightly above 24mm which is the next in line for Canon TS lenses, afaik) on a crop sensor is to get rid of the wide field of view you get with a 17mm, and by shifting the lens to be able to focus on certain parts of an interior or a building (either in a single shot, or even by stitching a few shots without getting the full width of the lens that you get with a full frame camera, if that makes sense). I like to shoot architecture and interiors, hence my idea for this experiment.
@@dianacotovan8642 Ahhhh, I see. That does make sense. The 17mm TS is a beautiful lens. The 1.6 crop factor for Canon is great for telephotos but more painful on the wide angle lenses. I would be interested to see how the stitching works out for you. Good luck with your shots!
@@thephotographytoolkit Let's see how it goes. Thank you! 😅
Great contribution. If there is one thing I don’t understand it is a DOF calculator. It asks for the focal length, the F stop, the distance to the subject, and the sensor size. It gives the DOF in inches or cm. If I put a lens on a FF body and take a shot, and then repeat with. a CF, the result is as shown in your clip. The image is identical, the CF is just a crop of the FF. yet, the DOF calculator will tell you the DOF is different. What is going on there?
Thanks for the question Gerhard. Honestly, I haven't ever used a DOF calculator. When I looked one up, the first one that google gave me was photopills (www.photopills.com/calculators/dof).
My first question is when I select a focal length for a APSC sensor camera and then select a focal length, is that focal length for a full frame (FX) or is it a APSC lens (DX)?
Great video man! I have a question: Are APS-C specific lenses (for example, kit lenses) designed with this in mind and not need to "crop" the image or they behave the same as the lenses designed for full frame?? I mean, if the lens itself is designed to cover 100% of the APS-C space, it would be still considered a "crop" of the optical image produces by the lens?
Thanks so much! To be totally honest, I am not sure if the what the lens manufacturers have in mind when designing the lenses. I am guessing that they are trying to replicated the field of view and the actual characteristics may vary.
A 50mm f1.4 lens from one manufacturer (like Nikon) will look slightly different than a 50mm f1.4 from another manufacturer (like Sigma) even when put on the same camera. The only thing that should be the same is that they have the same field of view. And even that differs because manufacturers will round numbers. For example, the Nikon 50mm f1.4 lens has a field of view of 46 degrees and the Sigma 50mm f1.4 has a field of view of 46.8 degrees.
I did do some tests where I used an apsc lens on a full frame camera in full frame mode to see the vignetting and then overlaid images capture on a full frame lens and scaled them down. The vignetted image captured on the apsc sensor at 18mm had the characteristics of a scaled down 27mm full frame photo. But the full frame 27mm photo had a blurrier background even though it was captured at the same aperture as the 18mm apsc image. These results are consistent with what I shared in the video. So it does apply when working backwards with crop lenses. Does that make sense?
Makes sense, thanks!
@@arboldechorizos Happy to help!
Finally a clear explanation with demonstration.
Thanks so much! I really appreciate it.
It can be demonstrated that two lenses with the same focal length used on the same format don't always have the same distortion characteristics, so can I claim when someone else's 24mm lens doesn't match mine that theirs "doesn't have the characteristics of a 24mm lens"?
This is the same sort of reasoning that led people to believe medium format is somehow less distorted than full frame or aps-c because the lenses have to be longer focal lengths for any given AoV/FoV
It's simply not true.
(Btw, the center of perspective of a lens is the entrance pupil. Keeping the camera in the same position when you change lenses will not keep your perspective consistent between lenses.)
I believe that's the no parallax point, or some call it the nodal point.
I totally understand that different lenses with the same focal length can have difference characteristics. I have actually been experimenting with that exact idea with three 50mm F1.4 lenses that I have (Nikon D, Nikon G, and Carl Zeiss). With those lenses it was more about differences in the bokeh as there were no distortion differences.
Very usefull! But you don't have the same problem woth apsc lens to? With the crop factor
Thanks for your comment. It is difficult to compare an apsc lens because if you use it with a full frame sensor the image won't cover the entire frame. Does that make sense?
So insightful. Thank you. Kindly help with the title of the soundtrack at 10:19 and where I can get it. I will really appreciate that.
Thanks so much. The soundtrack is 'Find Your Way Beat' by Nana Kwabena. If you click on your icon in the top right corner of your screen and select TH-cam Studio, then on the left hand side select Audio Library, you can then search for Find Your Way Beat or Nana Kwabena. You can download the song and use it and don't have to attribute but you can see that I did attribute at the end of my video. You can also check out Nana Kwabena's TH-cam channel: th-cam.com/channels/R8WNU7NJOQYJMfQgBAUSqg.html
@@thephotographytoolkit thank you!
Best explanation I've seen yet - I finally get it!
Thanks so much Cindy! I worked a lot on it to try to make it understandable with examples. I am glad it helps.
Great video with very good examples! However, I would like to add to it by talking about pixel density. I agree that the image projected by the lens is the same and that the image received by the APS-C sensor is a crop of the image received by a FX sensor, but if you were to use a D500 with a 20.9MP APS-C sensor and a D750 with a 24.3MP FX sensor and crop to get the same size image as the APS-C, the image produced by de D500 APS-C sensor would have a lot higher resolution. If you divid the MP count of each sensor by it's area, you get a pixel density of 0.0544 MP/mm2 for the 20.9MP APS-C sensor and a pixel density of 0.0281 MP/mm2 for the 24.3MP FX sensor. If you multiply the pixel density of the FX sensor by the area of the APS-C sensor you get a 10.8 MP image, which is, in my opinion, quite a big deal in certain situation. You have the chance to own a D850, a FX camera with a 45.4 MP sensor (which would still as a smaller pixel density than the D500 sensor but barely noticeable), so the difference is a lot less apparent, but most people who want to try a FX camera for the first time probably won't have access to such a camera. I understand that the point of the video wasn't really about that, but I find that most video discussing the two format often don't talk about that aspect or explains it very poorly. Again, thank you for the time you took making this video!
Thanks so much for your insight into pixel density Antoine! That is a really good point that if you have a FX sensor it may have a lower pixel density than an APS-C sized sensor even if they have similar number of megapixels. The big idea I wanted to make was that the you can't just multiply the lens focal length by 1.5 when you use that lens on an APS-C sized sensor. The image will not look the same as the equivalent focal length of an FX sensor. Maybe a pixel density video is one that I could make in the future. Thanks again for your comment!
This might be a dumb question but if you have a lens designed for crop sensor cameras, do you still need to apply the crop factor to figure out the aperture of the lens or is that accurate since the lens doesn’t cover a full frame sensor?
Yes. crop factor still there. just because an aps-c lens designed for crop sensor doesn't makes the images look like full frame.
That is not a dumb question at all!
The first thing to know is that it is a bit difficult to compare different lenses because they will have different characteristics. But I did compare an APSC 35mm F1.8 lens with a FF 50mm F1.8 lens. The APSC 35mm lens at F1.8 has almost the exact field of view as the FF 50mm F1.8 lens (35mm x 1.5 = 52.5mm) but I had to stop the 50mm lens down to F3.2 to get the equivalent look of blur in the background of the 35mm lens at F1.8. It should be closer to F2.8 (1.8 x 1.5 = F2.7). Perhaps the discrepancy is due to the difference in design of the two lenses.
I hope that is helpful.
I only count the equivalent fov. For example, the 200mm f4 lens on a crop sensor camera has the equivalent fov of 300mm and the depth of field of 200mm at f4. No reason to convert the aperture as it is exactly 200mm at f4.
I understand that a 200mm lens has an equivalent fov of a 300mm lens but I think it is confusing to say that it has an equivalent depth of field of a 200mm lens at f4. It is true but not easy to visualize. The picture from an APSC camera with a 200mm f4 lens will look like a 300mm lens set to f6 on a full frame camera. Thanks for the comment.
Thanks, very good and informative video
Thanks so much.
This is the best explanation On this topic. Thanks a million ❤
Thanks so much Martins! Glad it was helpful!
Great video. The big point I think creates confusion is when you say that an FF F4 lens on a crop sensor produces an equivalent F6 aperture, because this is related to the equivalent depth of field, not the amount of light that the crop sensor is getting. The FF lenses have larger glasses to cover the FF sensor and, consequently, in a crop sensor, they end up transmitting more light. This is clear in your photos, which have not gotten darker with the crop sensor. Quite the contrary, if you observe at 9:08 time, the background of the image with crop sensor is clearer than the background of the image with FF sensor, precisely because the sensor is getting more light than if it were with an APS lens. This ends up being an interesting property of using FF lenses on crop sensors.
At the end of the video (10:29), it becomes even clearer by adjusting the equivalent depth of field on the FF sensor, when the crop sensor image is brighter... that is, the crop sensor reaches the same depth of field, however, with a more illuminated image. That's why people consider that the aperture does not change, because they consider the amount of light, not the depth of field as a parameter. If on the same crop sensor we use an FF 70mm F4 lens and a APS 70mm F4 lens, the first will have a more brightness image, because it allows more light, however, with a higher depth of field.
Thanks so much for the comment and for the explanation. You're right that when I say that the equivalent aperture of a FF lens on a crop sensor camera is related to depth of field and not the amount of light.
The problem is that you did not take into consideration the equivalent ISO. The equivalent ISO is higher as the equivalent aperture would need higher ISO.
Wow sir ,
Very nice sir, you have explained very well. Thank you
Thanks so much for the kind comment. I am glad that you liked the video.
this is something that i consider for a long time,so by what you said,if i buy a crop sensor lens(for example a wide angle one at 190 degrees) and use it on a crop sensor camera it will still give me the 190 degrees fov looks?and the 1.5-1.6 crop factor only happen if you use a full frame lens on a crop sensor camera?
If you buy a wide angle crop sensor lens for a crop sensor camera it will have the equivalent field of view as the equivalent lens on a full frame camera. That means the crop camera and the full frame camera will capture the same angle of view. However, the images will not look exactly the same. This part of my video shows how images are different: th-cam.com/video/n-wR1FjWXSs/w-d-xo.htmlsi=ilGlIzUfH7WTVKkC&t=396
I hope that helps.
@@thephotographytoolkit okay i got it,but will the focal length got multiply by 1.5 since its a crop sensor? so no matter which lens you used on it the focal length will be multiply by 1.5-1.6? or only because people using a full frame lens on a crop sensor?
@@dazess1608 You are correct that no matter which lens you put on your camera with a crop sensor, you multiply the focal length by 1.5 (for Nikon, Sony, Fujifilm & Pentax) or 1.6 (for Canon). This will give you the equivalent focal length. So a APSC 18-55mm kit lens on a crop sensor camera has an equivalent focal length of 27-82.5mm which is close to the 28-80mm kit lens that was supplied with a full frame camera. If you put the 28-80mm full frame lens on your APSC camera it will have an equivalent focal length of 42-120mm. No matter which lens you put on your APSC sized camera you multiply by 1.5.
such a great explanation, thank you for your video
Thanks so much! I am glad it was clear.
f stands for _focal lenth_ not _fraction_ for reasons you actually explained: Aperture = Focal length / f-number = f/f_number
Thanks for the clarification!
What about low light photography? Does the crop factor effects the amount of light getting in? in fact, should I multiple T-stop to crop factor too?
Crop factor will not affect the amount of light getting into the camera. The aperture (the size of the opening in the lens) is what affects the amount of light that reaches the camera's sensor.
@@thephotographytoolkit that's tight, but using full frame lenses, I guess, a lot of this light is waisted. Then maybe less light reaches the smaller sensor
@@MMrostamiani I don't know if I would say that light is wasted. The APSC / cropped sensor just captures the light light that hits it. There generally isn't any change in exposure unless the centre part of the image is extremely bright or extremely dark when compared to the edges of the frame (and if you are using matrix/evaluative/multi metering which looks at the entire scene)
Oh thanks, maybe I misunderstood, I mean waisted because using a full frame lens part of light is reaching around the sensor which absolutely there is nothing to capture it. Compared to full frame sensors that uses all the light
@@MMrostamiani Thanks for the clarification. You're right that the light that doesn't hit the sensor will not be captured. Back to your original question - this will not affect your exposure or make any difference in low light photography.
what about crop lens vs full frame lens, like viltrox 56mm f1.4 E mount vs sony FE 85 f1.8 mount, do we need x1.5 crop lens?
Thanks for your question. Which camera are you using? An APS-C sensor camera? If you are, your Viltrox will have an equivalent focal length of 84mm (56mm x 1.5) and an equivalent aperture of F2.1 (F1.4 x 1.5). Your FE 85mm F1.8 will have an equivalent focal length of 127.5mm (85mm x 1.5) and an equivalent aperture of F2.7 (F1.8 x 1.5).
The equivalences are for comparing sensor sizes. If you just use APS-C then it does not matter which type of lens you use.I
t is completely up to you whether you use any equivalences. You can happily shoot with your system without making any comparisons to full frame. Those who shot medium format in the film era never thought what they would be in 35 mm equivalences.
Beautify explained and demonstrated.
Thanks so much Silas!
I have a cannon 70d and it's a crop sensor and when I put the 1.4 sigma art on 50mm on it, I can't get close enough to my subject, because then they are to close to the frame. I'm trying to shoot video on a green screen. What size lens would you suggest for the setup I have? Much appreciated :)
I just need to clarify. What do you mean when you say that you can't get close enough to your subject because they are too close to the frame? Do you mean the edge of the frame of the photo? Do you mean they are too close to the edge of the green screen? Thanks
To close to the edge and the height of the green screen. Make sense?@@thephotographytoolkit
hi, you said f4 is actually a fraction, 1/4, what is 1 in this case? thank you.
The f is for fraction. It is just 1 over the number. So f4 is 1 over 4 (1/4), f8 is 1 over 8 (1/8) and f22 is 1 over 22 (1/22)
So much confusion, thanks for the explanation.
Glad it was helpful!
Outstanding. Thanks.
Thanks so much Steve!
Good explanation but does this only apply to full frame lenses used on apsc? So a 35mm/f2 lens made for crop sensor camera you also get those specs? Thanks
Thanks for the question. I have done some tests.
I used a 35mm f1.8 APSC lens on an APSC sensor camera. It gives me the equivalent field of view of a 52.5mm lens on a full frame camera. So I compared it to a 50mm f1.8 lens on a full frame camera.
When I put the 35mm APSC lens and camera images side by side with the full frame 50mm lens and camera, the 50mm lens set to f1.8 had a blurrier background when compared to the 35mm lens that was set to f1.8. To get a similar amount of blurry background, I had to change the 50mm full frame lens on the full frame camera to an aperture of f3.2. Theoretically the APSC 35mm lens should be similar look to the 50mm lens set to f2.7. The differences in my results might be because of slightly different equivalent focal lengths and/or the different lens designs.
@@thephotographytoolkit thank you for testing and the fast answer!!
@@the.realaquaman5749 Happy to help!
@@thephotographytoolkit
And in relation to the light that reaches the sensor, is it the same in both? Or does the aps-c sensor receive less light? For example: If in this example you gave, both had automatic ISO, would it give the same ISO result, or would aps-c have a higher ISO to compensate for the light?
@@michelecintramika8482 The same amount of light is coming through the lens and hitting the sensor because the lens has the same size opening for both APSC sensor and FF sensor. There is no compensation needed.
Very important question. What about when it os done backwards utilizing crop lenses that have full frame coverage.
Example: Utilizing a sigma 18-35mm f1.8 on a full frame sony in full frame mode.
Is the lens still the same as as a full frame versión if it were to exist?
NOTE: Yes utilizing apsc lenses on a full frame camera in full frame mode does produce vignetting and some softoness on the edges.
But it does not affect my work flow because I do videos and export in cinema scope which will automatically eliminate the borders / vignetting.
@@streetlegends Great question Michael. Thanks for the clarification of your workflow. That makes sense. I just did some tests using an apsc lens on a full frame camera in full frame mode to see the vignetting and then overlaid images capture on a full frame lens and scaled them down. The vignetted image captured on the apsc sensor at 18mm had the characteristics of a scaled down 27mm full frame photo. But the full frame 27mm photo had a blurrier background even though it was captured at the same aperture as the 18mm apsc image. These results are consistent with what I shared in the video. So it does apply when working backwards with crop lenses. Thanks for your question and I hope that helps.
Thank you. Amazing stuff. thank you for responding.
@@streetlegends Thanks so much. Happy to help out.
@@thephotographytoolkit I still have some doubts. Im currently testing the sigma 30mm f1.4 apsc VS the sony 28mm f2.0 FullFrame
Both lenses are being tested in lowlight conditions and in full frame mode on a sony a7IV body.
It seems that the sigma lets in more light. and the background blur/ are similar but bokeh balls are shaped differently.
It looks like the sigma lets in more light and the extra 2mm has a slightly better background compression.
Is there any possibility for you to do a backwards compatibility test for us video makes.
apsc on full frame body in full frame mode.
What if, I wanted to get 50 mm F1.4 DoF result on Full-Frame, should I set on my MFT camera, 100 mm F2.8 to get similiar result?
I think 75mm f2.1 for same result on full frame
I want to make sure I understand the question. You want the look of a 50mm F1.4 DoF on Full frame. You are using a MFT camera. Is that correct?
If you are using a MFT camera and with a 2X crop factor, you would need a 25mm lens with an aperture of F0.7 to get the equivalent DoF and field of view as a 50mm F1.4 lens on FF camera. I don't think there is a mft lens like that.
But also remember that different lenses will have different looks so they will look different.
Excellent explanation
Thanks so much!
Yeah - small mess-up. F stands for focal length - not fraction - but you were close... Aperture is f/4 - in other words the focal length divided by 4. 100mm f/4 = 25mm. 200mm f/8 is also 25mm... - Same aperture, different f/ number. As a proportion of 2 measurements, it has no units.
Thanks for the information Christopher. I appreciate it.
So full frame camera having more lens options, is better for milky background than a crop body?
Essentially yes. But also no.
Let's start with how a full frame camera will NOT give you blurrier backgrounds.
The first thing is that a crop sensor camera will just give you a crop of the full frame sensor image. So if you have the two cameras from the same spot with the same lens, the background blur of the crop sensor will be exactly the same as the full frame camera. The field of view will not be the same so the framing will look different. This is because a crop sensor camera is just a crop of the full frame image.
Now let's look at how a full frame camera WILL give you blurrier backgrounds.
You will get blurrier backgrounds when capturing similarly framed images. Let's look at this example: let's say that you captured a head portrait with a full frame camera with an 85mm F1.4 lens. Now you want to capture the same framing with the crop sensor camera. To do that, you will need to move backwards. Because you are moving further away from your subject, this will lessen the amount of background blur.
There are a number of factors that affect the amount of blur in the background including the distance from the subject, the lens focal length, the aperture of the lens and the construction of the elements in the lens.
So if I want background blur, I start by getting as close as I can to my subject and that is easier with a full frame camera.
Characteristics of the lens? What does that mean? Flare, imperfections etc. yeas. Note when you shoot so close you may get strange results as the optical center does not remain at exactly the same position. Also those could be explained by barrel distortion.
You should do it again with normal shooting distances.
Thanks for the comment Okaro. Yes - characteristics of the lens means that different lenses can look different - even lenses of the same focal length. If I had done this test and used two different lenses, I would have gotten lots of comments that I can't compare two different lenses because there are differences between those lenses and they affect the results. Does that make sense?
When I am close the look of the statue will look different than when I am further away. I made sure that the camera was secure so that nothing would move so that everything would be as fair as possible. The fact is that when I am close to my subject with a 14mm focal length on a full frame camera I will get a certain look and I will get a different look with a 21mm lens on an APSC camera from the same spot.
You mention that I should try it again with normal shooting distances. What do you mean by normal? Not close to my subject? In another part of the video I use a telephoto lens and there are still differences: th-cam.com/video/n-wR1FjWXSs/w-d-xo.htmlsi=t2rQ5sGbMqZmFots&t=500
I didn't just use a wide angle lens, I used a telephoto lens and there were also differences. Thanks again for your comments.
What is a normal shooting distance?
@@antonroland Great question. There is no such thing.
Very well done, but the point of Aperture is confusing, what about a Zoom lens, say 70-200 f2.8, is the Aperture different when its 70mm vs 200mm?
it is known the larger the FL, the shallower thr DoF, but light is the same.
Thanks - that is a really great question! With a zoom lens like a 70-200mm F2.8, the size of the opening of the aperture actually gets larger as you zoom from 70mm to 200mm. It is easy to see in an older 70-200mm which has an aperture ring because you can just set the aperture to F2.8 and zoom the lens from 70mm to 200mm and you will see the size of the aperture opening increase as you zoom to longer focal lengths. It is also possible to do this with a newer lens without an aperture ring by putting it on the camera and setting the aperture to F2.8 and then taking it off the camera without turning off the camera first. If you don't turn off the camera, the aperture will stay at F2.8 when the lens comes off the camera and you will be able to see when you look through the lens and zoom that the aperture opening actually increases. I might be able to make a video to show this if that is helpful.
The lens has constant aperture so it gathers same amount of light fully open at any focal length. When you zoom in it gathers light from a narrower angle so it would get less light but for that reason the size of the aperture (not the aperture value) is larger at 200 mm. It is 200 mm / 2.8 = 71 mm when at 70 mm it is 70 mm / 2.8 = 25 mm. At 20 mm you of course get more blur.
Note even on variable aperture zoom the aperture is larger at the tele end like typical 18-55 mm f/3.5-5.6 kit lens. At 18 mm it is 5 mm and at 55 mm 10 mm.
Very nice, thanks
You're very welcome.
Did the same test with a sony 7r4 camera and a 20-70 lens. First I shot in cropped mode at 20mm and then in full frame mode at 30mm. No difference in terms of perspective. There is a difference only in resolution and detail. Plus the lens profile in lightroom doesn't work very well in cropped mode so there is a little cushioniness. If you don't move the camera, nothing will change.
I see what's going on. You changed the focus point and at such a close distance the perspective around you changes a lot. In addition, when you change the focal length when shooting such close objects, the internal distortions of the lens become very visible, they also make a difference in your 14 and 21 mm. Try also shooting some interior with the focus point in the same place and without moving the camera.
As far as bokeh is concerned, everything is correct. When we shoot at 21mm the focus point relative to the sensor becomes closer and at the same aperture we get a more blurred background. I'm writing with a translator so it may not be very clear)
@@dmitrypovyshev6756 Camera was focused at the very beginning and then lens was switched to manual focus so the focus point didn't change at all.
Thanks for your comment Dmitry. That is super cool that you did your own test too. I definitely didn't move the camera and there was a difference because I am using a different focal length. Different focal lengths will give different looking images. All I am saying is that you can't just multiply the focal length of a full frame lens when you put it on a APSC camera and you will get the same image as you would on a full frame sensor. A 14mm FF lens on a APSC camera will look different than a 21mm lens on a FF camera. That is because they are different focal lengths. If you put that 21mm lens on the APSC camera you will get the same look as the FF camera with a 21mm lens when you crop the FF image.
@@dmitrypovyshev6756 Totally agree with you when it comes to bokeh. The translator you are using is doing a good job. I appreciate the comments! Thanks
so, if the aperture of 2.8 is equivalent to 4.2... I have to change my ISO or shutter speed to compensate... right? because of the lack of light... or just the blur change?
Thanks for the question Gabriel. The actual size of the opening is exactly the same. No compensation is needed. The same amount of light is coming through the same size opening.You don't need to change the ISO or shutter speed at all. The EQUIVALENT aperture is 4.2 which means that the amount of blur in the background will look like you captured the image at F4.2. I hope that helps.
@@thephotographytoolkit interesting, I thought there was less light entering in the camera because of the sensor size and some type of calculation based on the full frame size or something but apparently it's doesn't matter
Maybe would be a great idea buy a 70-200 2.8 for using in my sony a6400. Despite the amount, of blur I would have a f2.8, 300mm excellent to photograph sports in low light, and plus, using this lens in my future full frame camera.
@@GabrielHsBr Sorry for the confusion. The actual opening in the lens doesn't change so the same amount of light is coming into the camera and hitting the sensor. That light is just hitting different sized sensors.
@@GabrielHsBr A 70-200 F2.8 is an excellent choice! I use it with both my apsc (crop) sensor cameras and my full frame cameras. Just remember that you wouldn't have a 300mm f2.8. What you have is a crop of a full frame sensor. For example, my full frame Z9 has 45 megapixels and if I capture an image and crop it to the size of an apsc sensor I lose about half the megapixels so I would have about a 22.5 megapixel image. This is similar to the number of megapixels in in your a6400. The key thing is that a 300mm f2.8 on a full frame will look different than the 200mm f2.8 lens on a crop sensor camera. I hope that makes sense.
i learned things today. thanks! :D
Thanks so much for your comment Jon!
Great video!
Thanks so much!
Bro I have some questions
1. Bro does A full frame lens on a crop sensor does better than crop lens on crop sensor.
2. Is aperture opening (same f) of full frame lens bigger than crop lens?
1. Different lenses will look different regardless if they are full frame or crop sensor so it can be difficult to compare. However, I have put a DX (crop) 35mm F1.8 lens on a crop sensor camera (equivalent focal length of 52.5mm) and compared that with an FX (full frame) 50mm F1.8 lens on a full frame camera. The cameras were in the same place, focused on exactly the same spot and were set to F1.8. The 50mm lens on a FX camera had more background blur than the 35mm lens on a crop sensor camera.
2. I did my best to measure the aperture opening of my DX crop 35mm F1.8 lens when set to F1.8 and it looks to be the same size as the opening of my FX full frame 35mm F1.4 lens (when the lens is set to F1.8).
1) Depends on lens quality. A common myth is that full frame lenses on crop sensors will be good because the crop sensor uses the "best part" of the lens. However this is not true.
Image sharpness is measured in line pairs per mm, or line widths per picture height when comparing different formats. Where is the mm part? We take the physical dimensions of a sensor. E.g. Full frame = 24mm height or 36mm width. APS-C = 18mm height, 24mm width.
A modern lens renders usually between 60-90 lp/mm.
Let's say you have a lens that renders 60 lp/mm. Putting it on a full frame gives 60 * 24 = 1440. Putting it on a crop sensor gives 60 * 18 = 1080. So we can see the same lens will perform worse on a crop sensor. So why did we lose detail or sharpness suddenly? This is due to the fact we have to enlarge them to the same size for comparison. Like back in the old days with film enlargers. If you blow up a 18mm height piece of paper up to a 32" monitor, vs a piece of paper that was larger to begin with, which would have more clarity and detail? It would be the one that was larger to begin with.
So you actually need far sharper lenses on crop sensor cameras to have the same level of sharpness as a full frame camera. This can be seen in the size and cost of premium crop sensor cameras. It takes much higher quality glass and coatings because you are kinda "zooming" into every little defect with crop sensors.
E.g.
Micro four thirds
Olympus 17mm f/1.2 PRO = 35mm f/2.4 equivalent. Costs almost double or triple the average full frame 35mm f1.8 lens.
2) Focal length and aperture does not change. Those are physical parameters. The equivalent FOV, DOF and noise performance can be calculated with crop factors, but the actual real focal length and aperture does not change, ever.
1) It all depends on the lens. Some newer full frame lenses may be very sharp even on APS-C but some older, especially film era ones can be disappointing. Also the focal lenghts may not be less ideal. For example Canon has full frame 17-40 mm f/4. It would be better to use 17-55 mm f/2.8 on APS-C.
2) It does not matter which type lens you use on APS-C. Apertures and focal lenghts are the same. They are properties of the lens, not the sensor.
I really don't get why the bokwh changes? isn't the aps-c sensor just the ff cropped? so if I take the photo with a ff, and crop the image as the aps-c, why I don't get the same background blur?
Sorry for the confusion. You are totally correct that an APSC camera is just a crop of a FF camera. The bokeh is different when you use different focal lengths even though you are capturing an image from the same spot. So in this part of the video, th-cam.com/video/n-wR1FjWXSs/w-d-xo.htmlsi=qNOAwrEpRWDXswck&t=100, the bokeh is different because I am comparing different focal lengths. I have a 14mm lens on an APSC camera and a 21mm lens on a FF camera. I do this because a 14mm lens on an APSC camera has the equivalent field of view as a 21mm lens on a FF camera. And people have been confused and think that if you use a 14mm lens on an APSC camera you will have the same image as a 21mm lens on a FF camera. But I wanted to show that the look is different. The look is different because there are different focal lengths. Does that make sense?
@@thephotographytoolkit yes👌 thank you very much.
@@nuwanda923 Happy to clarify!
El mejor video que he visto!
¡Muchas gracias!
Cell phone sensors are tiny, the crop factor on the s23 ultra's 3x lens is something around 8,73. When I take a picture, in the EXIF data it shows as 7.90mm, but in some tech specs it is presented as 69mm, so I assume they factor in the crop factor of the small sensors for that. The s23u's 3x lens really it appears to have a 69mm field of view, but somehow it doesn't have the same distortions as a 7.9mm lens. Can someone explain to me how this happens?
Thanks for the question. A lens focal length is measured in mm from the nodal point (sometimes also call point of convergence) of the lens to the camera's sensor. Here is a diagram about nodal points: 2.img-dpreview.com/files/p/E~forums/63133717/0f78c10bc37244f682d18c5b88fa1ec2
So the distance from the nodal point of your s23's lens to the sensor is 7.9mm. The tech specs that say you have a 69mm lens are trying to give you a number with something that you can understand and reference so they use full frame digital cameras. In your case the phone's lens has an equivalent field of view of 69mm on a full frame 35mm (24mm x 36mm) sensor. It doesn't have the same distortions as a 7.9mm lens because your cell phone lens is tiny compared to a 35mm lens.
When we compare a full frame sensor to a crop or APSC sensor, they have the same distance from the nodal point of the lens to the each camera's sensor. That makes them easier to compare. If you were able to attach your phone's camera to a full frame camera it wouldn't act like a full frame 7.9mm lens. I hope that helps.
@@thephotographytoolkit thank you so much this really helped me understand better. btw, I bought a t5i, and I like the depth perspective of the 50mm lens, as it seems to me the way I see things (not in field of view, but in perspective), is there anything I can do to maintain perspective from a 50mm, but without having the field of view so closed? even more so on a cropped sensor
well explained
Thanks so much!
If I put my Sigma 150-600 Contemporary lens on my FF Canon 24MP camera then switch bodies to my old APS-C 24MP camera, I get a "closer" image with the same amount of megapixels. At 3:10 you said that if you crop the FF image to look like the crop sensor image, the results are identical. Not true. You now have less than 6000x4000 pixels in the FF image that you cropped in a program. Meaning less resolution. Meanwhile, the crop sensor image is still 6000x4000 pixels. 😉
Fair comment Joe. If both the cameras are the same number of megapixels, then your APSC size image will get a "closer" image with the same amount of MP. And that is the advantage of the APSC format and why I have APSC cameras as well as full frame cameras.
The main point of my video is that you can't just multiply the focal length of a full frame lens when you put it on a APSC camera and you will get the same image as you would on a full frame sensor. A 14mm FF lens on a APSC camera will look different than a 21mm lens on a FF camera.
Another thing to note is that my FF cameras are 45MP and Nikon doesn't make 45MP APSC cameras.
Thanks again for your comment.
I had a question, does this mean f2.8 in FF is brighter than f2.8 in apsc?
Thanks for the question Byron. No - the same amount of light coming through the same size aperture opening means they are the same brightness and exposure.
I see, because i do keep wondering why does low light with fullframe just feels like less noise and much better than apsc. With this info i think its just leave me with sensor size that really do matters! Hahaha thx for the reply🥂
@@byronjosafatmartinelli7373 It all can be confusing because there are different sizes of pixels for different cameras and the number of megapixels aren't always comparable (like a 48 megapixel iphone sensor isn't better than a 45.7 megapixel Nikon D850 sensor).
@@byronjosafatmartinelli7373 The overall amount of light gathered is greater on full frame, but the intensity over any given part of the frame is the same. So the amount of light gathered by an aps-c sized crop of the full frame sensor is equal to the amount of light gathered by an aps-c sensor.
The noise on an aps-c sensor is just blown up along with the image relative to the full frame sensor.
I'm actually shocked that this has to be explained in this detail. I never confused equivalent FOV with the actual focal length. I think this confusion only arises when you learn the effect of focal length rather than what focal length actually is. Learning a little bit about optics goes a long way. Now I'm wondering if people don't actually know the causal mechanisms of photography now. Like do people understand why chromatic abberation is more pronounced when the lens is wide open?
There are so many levels of understanding and there is no shame in knowing or not something. We are all at different stages in our learning journey when it comes to photography. I love learning and I love sharing. I would love to learn from you about why chromatic aberration is more pronounced when the lens is wide open. Thanks for the comment.
I really regret buying a Canon R7, such an amazing camera, but the APSC sensor gets me frustrated
I totally understand. I enjoy my APSC sensors for what they are and I mostly use them for wildlife and sports.
Isn't it common sense that, even if you apply crop factor to a given focal length, you're still working with the original focal length, just "zoomed" in? MFT users know that even if our 25mm lens gives an effective fov of 50mm, optically you're working with a wide angle 25mm. That's one way you can achieve different levels of compassion with effective fovs. Also while you have, say, f/4 instead of f/2 in terms of depth of field, you're still getting f/2 worth of light on the sensor, crop doesn't apply to that. There's also other aspects that control depth of field just like exposure is a combination of elements.
The only misconceptions are from people mindlessly part of the "full frame or nothing" club that spend most of their time talking about cameras rather than shooting them.
Thanks for the comment. I agree with you that it is common sense that when one applies a crop factor to a given focal length, it is just 'zoomed' in. However, what many people do have misconceptions about is that a the look of the image captured on a APSC size sensor will be the same as a longer focal length lens on a full frame sensor. For example, a 14mm lens on an APSC sensor camera will have a different look than a 21mm lens on a full frame sensor camera even though they have equivalent focal lengths and are captured from exactly the same spot. th-cam.com/video/n-wR1FjWXSs/w-d-xo.html
And that is what I was demonstrating - the exact difference of the look when comparing different (but equivalent) focal lengths when used on different sensor sizes.
I honestly just love cameras and although I don’t own a MFT camera, I have used one. I currently own and use cameras with APSC sensors, full frame sensors and medium format sensors. So can you tell me more about your “full frame or nothing” comment?
No, 25 mm is not wide angle on MFT. It is the normal. I think you meant compression and not compassion. Lets say simply: you are totally wrong. You have invented some new laws of optics where there is some compression dependent on the sensor size. This nonsense is common on medium format shooters and if has been totally debunked.
You get f/2 worth of light which allow you to have lower ISO but as the sensor is smaller you have to have lower ISO for the same noise level. Smaller sensor offers no free lunch. Full frame can always simulate smaller sensor by stopping down and raising the ISO. Same cannot necessarily be done with smaller sensor as there might not be large enough aperture or low enough ISO. The claim that full frame users do not shoot their cameras was a cheap shot.
Is it true that you can just step back and get the same results as the FF?
Stepping back with an APSC camera will give you a different result than a full frame camera because you will be capturing the photo from a different perspective.