Range VLOG
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 มิ.ย. 2024
- Date: 14 November 2023
Range: West End Gun Club (Meyers Canyon, CA)
I jumped on the hype train and acquired the recently released Garmin Xero C1 Pro chronograph. It arrived and I hit the range the next day to run it side by side by side with the Labradar and Magnetospeed V3.
00:00 Opening Montage
00:55 Introduction - Garmin Xero C1 Pro
05:31 Garmin Xero C1 Pro Setup
07:10 Garmin Xero C1 Pro Firmware Update
07:29 Garmin Xero C1 Pro Testing - Centerfire
13:31 Another String
15:39 Garmin Xero C1 Pro Testing - Rimfire
24:14 Garmin Xero C1 Pro - Unknown Munitions Xero Rail
25:18 Garmin Xero C1 Pro Testing - Rimfire - Diving Board Mounted
29:30 Garmin Xero C1 Pro Initial Impressions and Closing Remarks
Music Title: Quattro
Music by Karl Casey @WhiteBatAudio
• Nostalgic Synthwave - ...
I realized at 14:59 I mistyped the Magnetospeed avg velocity. It says 2609 and should read 2709. Bad proofreading.
For those wondering about the arca plate I am using for the Garmin Xero C1 Pro, you can get one here - amzn.to/46nPPL2 (Amazon)
Thank you for the review. I was waiting for your review. I trust it more than most.
excellent review, thx, Finally a clean comparison. I myself have had a LabRadar for several years and I was considering whether the differential measurement would be at least as good with the garmin as with the LabRadar, now I see that it is or will be even better, thanks to the scale in tenths of fps.
thank you
Exact test I’ve been wanting to see. Have the v3 but no Labradar to test. Love my garmin though! Thanks brotha 🤙🏽
It is a great unit that's for sure. I have the Magneto Speed M3 w/ GrayOps mount, FX True Ballistics, FX Radar & Garmin. The Garmin for simplicity and compact ness it is awesome. The FX True Ballistics with giving the BC of your projectile is awesome and the graph it produces on the shots it a plus. With all that being said I will keep the Garmin in my range bag 100% of the time. The FX True Ballistics will go with me for all ammo testing and building a new profile for the kestrel due to BC figures. Keep the good videos going.
I really appreciate reviews comparing a new product with competing products when the reviewer spent his own money on the product. So much better to have someone knowledgeable giving the info when I don’t feel like they are just part of a companies marketing strategy.
I’m happy for the TH-camrs that got a free model but their reviews don’t carry much water with me. This review caries a whole bucketload though.
I agree 100%
Hi. New subscriber here. I used my C1 for the first time today.
When they were first released, I immediately placed an order. Sorry, backorder. None to be found anywhere I looked. Then a few days ago, while searching for new scopes on Amazon, I searched for one of these. To my GREAT surprise, they had 14. I instantly ordered one. Yes, I paid full price. Within minutes, they were all gone. I'm an old Navy Gunner's Mate with more firearms than the local gun store. ha ha
I also have an Oehler 35P chrono and this is the one commonly used by the shooting magazines when they test guns and ammo. I love the 35P since it gives you a paper trail for my reloads. I reload 40 different cartridges. But the 35P is a pain to set up, and I have a private range. 3 skyscreens, 2 tripods, cables, etc. This was SO simple, I'm still wondering "how did they do that?" Just awesome!
I think the FX is still the best option out. The Garmin takes all of the cons out of the LabRadar and makes it effortlessly easy to use. Great video as always.
The Garmin is awesome. How nice and simple is that in every way! On the waiting list for one now here in Canada thanks to your review👍👍
Yes, it is hands-down way easier to use than a Labradar. The one thing I will need to wait until a busy Saturday is how well it works with people on adjacent benches.
@@ocabj I used mine at indoor ranges and it picked up someones shots that were stationed next to me. Had to readjust the Garmin, I guess I didn't position it directly at my target maybe. But I've used it about three times and it's been pretty great
Great review. The Garmin definitely looks like the way to go. I have a love/hate relationship with the Labradar and am ready for a change. Btw, what is the weight, as it sits, on your 6.5 Creedmoor. That’s a great looking set up!
@@gpo1956 6 lb 3 oz without scope. 8 lb 6 oz with scope. www.ocabj.net/precision-rifle-project-series-defiance-machine-anti-lightweight-rifle-build/
Even if the Garmin is a tad off I would be more likely to use it. Mine should be here on Saturday. Thank for the review.
There's no "skew" from the Magnetospeed. I believe the Magnetospeed more than the others. The Magnetospeed is the only one showing an ACTUAL RAW MV number instead of a "calculated" MV number. The others are displaying a "calculated" MV based on where it first begun tracking the bullet. The algorithms used in those radar chronographs are a bit on the conservative side in their estimations. That's why they are always lower than the Magnetospeed.
Thank you, Jonathan for an awesome review. You’re at my home range as I live in Cucamonga. The magneto speed is going to be the fastest because it is actually amazing at the muzzle. Where is the lab radar and the Garmin are picking up bullets further out the muzzle. Still damn close For the girls I date. Thanks again.
Yes, a "Labradar killer". They are already on sale all over the place, both new and used. Serious hand loaders are dumping them to offset the cost of a Garmin.
My Labradar has been functional but has always had limitations when shooting 20 cal and even some 22 cal loads. Loads above 3900fps are common. The Garmin will track speeds up to 5000 fps. That solves a major problem with Labradar and is the reason I’ve switched.
I was waiting for your review on the Garmin before i purchase it. I have the magneto speed and been thinking of buying the wiser precision chrono mount but the garmin is more streamlined set up, less cumbersome. I'm sold.
That is another good observation. Even with a rifle mounted Magnetospeed, there are still adjustments that need to be made to make sure the bayonet is in the right position and doesn't get shot. Moving it from rifle to rifle can be a little tedious.
One of several vids I have watched,,own the magneto,and two screen chronos and just ordered the garmin. For shear ease of set up which is such a big plus the garmin is going to be my go to,,,,,waiting to see how the frankford unit performs……
Great review. Looks awesome. Is the device designed to withstand heavy recoil when mounted directly to centrefire rifles? Is this supported by Garmin and covered by warranty?
I honestly don't know. The manual doesn't say not to, but has a line item about avoiding extreme shock. How much shock is going to be transferred to the gun mounted Garmin is kind of hard to calculate considering the operator is taking most of the energy. I'm sure we'll find out in 6 months or so if people start having unit failures.
Thanks for making this! I believe the xero c1 is meant to be placed 5-15” behind the muzzle even when using a brake. Don’t know if it would make a difference though, seems to work from almost any position
I use the Area 419 Hellfire muzzle brake which directs the blast at an angle. Placing anything next to that muzzle brake and slightly back would be in the concussion radius. That's why I place the Labradar slighty forward of the muzzle with the brake because if I put it at the side and slightly back, the concussion of the brake will turn the Labradar on the chrono, and sometimes the shockwave is hard enough to cause the Labradar to reset.
To follow up, the biggest issue then would be that the shockwave from the brake would likely knock over the Garmin on the small tripod. If I run an arm mount on the rifle, then I wouldn't be as concerned about running the Garmin in the blast radius.
Try the Garmin 5" to side and 15" behind muzzle, as instruction state. and probably no muzzle blast hit the unit?
Nice vid and thanks for answering questions, does the garmin show down range velocity like the lab radar?
No.
Thanks for the comparison video. Has anyone found a way to add shots to a session so that you can do round robin style shooting during load development? I found the lack of that ability in the Magnetospeed surprising, and now the same with the Garmin. My 15 year old Chrony Pro allows this, and it is an obvious feature for anyone who knows anything about load development. so I don't understand why the Product Managers of the Garmin and Magneto overlooked it. (Not that all hand loaders want to shoot round robin, but it should be an option.)
I don’t know but my initial thought was there could be a disparity between the points/distances at which the different devices record the speed.
Or, as another commenter here mentioned, a different time triggering each device.
I want a Garmin though.
Thanks for the great review. The Garmin definitely looks like the way to go. I have a love/hate relationship with the Labradar and am ready to make a change. Btw, what is the weight,as it sits, on your 65 Creedmoor? It looks like a great hunting rig.
6 lb 3 oz without scope. 8 lb 6 oz with scope. www.ocabj.net/precision-rifle-project-series-defiance-machine-anti-lightweight-rifle-build/
magnetospeed is measering at the muzzle . the garmen reads around 10 foot out and the lab is probably about the same. so that explains the differance.
Garmin calculates the muzzle speed from multiple measurements downrange it seems, so it not a 20 feet distance that you have to add in your load dev app or ballistics solver
Your velocity difference between the labradar/garman vs the magnetospeed is the magnetospeed is picking up actual muzzle velocity vs doppler which picks up the bullet during its flight. Apples to oranges. Just a thought. 🤔
Based off my military weapons testing experience, the muzzle higher reading and other positions reading further out at lower looks to be the reason of skew?
Hey man, great video as always!
A little theory. Do you think the Garmin was slower because you had it in line/past the muzzle? From my experience with my C1 Pro , it likes to be behind the muzzle. I theorize the brake may screw with it. It seemed more inline with your magnettospeed when you ran it on the rimfire but then again you were super far back. I think (based off my experience) that if you run it 5-15 back and to the side you'll get results within a few FPS of the magnettospeed and inline with the lab radar.
Something to consider. I'll have to keep track of any skew between the units in future range sessions. Granted, hopefully I can test that sooner than later because I don't want to keep dragging out all three chronographs for much longer. Too much gear to pack and keep track of.
If you would set the Xero C1 near the bipod, the velocities would have been slightly higher. The back blast from the muzzle brake would miss the C1.
@@AP2020_Outdoors Unlikely. I've shot with the Garmin in all positions (including where people keep claiming that it *NEEDS* to be) and the offset from the LabRadar is still the same with centerfire (about -4 fps). I really think there's too much emphasis placed on placement.
Magneto speed is muzzle velocity and Garmin is 20 feet down range so it will be slightly slower.
If I were to mount the Garmin on a rifle, I would be sure to include a layer of foam or something to dampen high frequency vibrations. We do not know what subjecting a Garmin to the kind of shock waves that travel through a rifle upon firing has on it over time. It is not milspec rated!
I did not buy the LabRadar because of the price expecially considering all the finicky stuff, huge size, etc. But when I saw the Garmin, I couldn't wait very long before I pulled the trigger. It's like comparing a big rig to a sports sedan for driving around town. I target shoot in the wilderness a lot, and a Labradar size/weight thing is unuseable in those environments.
I have always found the same variance between the magnetospeed and the LabRadar. I figured that was the magnetospeed picking up the bullet closer to the barrel and a degradation of speed before rhe LabRadar picked it up.
That's what I was assuming as well. One could argue the Magnetospeed is more accurate given that it's right up against the muzzle.
Yeah assuming the Garmin trigger time is just a touch slower yet. I think given some time we will find maybe a slight adjustment in MV to true ballistic calculators will be worth it given the easy of use. I love the idea of mounting it on the diving board.
Great review. As it is sold, is it possible to download Garmin data for review?
That's the immediate negative right now. If you plug in the Garmin to a computer via USB, you can download the shot session files which are stored as .FIT which usually corresponds to Garmin fitness files. However, if you use the Garmin FIT SDK tools to translate those files to csv, it doesn't come out in a very readable matter. I was looking at the data and I think it's storing them in millimeters. So you would need to write a tool to convert the FIT files coming off the Xero C1 Pro to a format you want. I was reading the Garmin FIT SDK a little bit. I think it might be relatively easy to write something, however, I need to find out what field numbers (they're only identified by numbers) correspond to what information type they represent for the Xero C1 unit. I'm not entirely sure Garmin even updated their SDK because their CSV tool outputs the velocity data with field type of 'unknown'.
Appreciated you testing the major systems side by side. Did you find the Garmin to be consistent?
I haven't had any issues with the Garmin since I acquired it in October 2023. Every so often it will miss a rimfire shot, but that is usually if I shoot too quickly after the previous shot.
Great review Jonathan! Thoughts on the mounting arms from Area 419 and GrayOps?
I made my own they other day, but did place an order for the Area 419 (without clamp) after I saw how the ARMS 17 bevel is cut a side mount on one side and forward mount on the other. I want to see what I can do with that.
@ocabj awesome, looking forward to seeing how it works for you. I did the same, ordered the arm only and will use a spare BTC-Pro on it.
So many chronographs on the market and they all give different numbers. Someone is going to have to set up a controlled test with a known FPS and see which ones are actually correct and hold these companies to some sort of standard. Next time you strip the bolt on that Voodoo check to see if the spring on the firing pin is not binding 😃
Thanks for the video!
This does require a lot of testing with different sample sizes (more than one of each unit). However, if we consider 2701 (Garmin) vs 2709 (MS) vs 2705 (LabRadar) averages, it's only a 0.3% skew between the Garmin and MS and a 0.1% skew between the Garmin and LR. So this not much error from one another. Of course, we would need some confirmed way of recording the true speed (a control unit) to get percent error of each unit from true speed.
@@ocabj Right- One of those closed environment facilities ammo manufacturers own or rent would need to be used as a control. Would be interesting to see Hornady take a handful of Chronos into the back and let us know who wins on a podcast! Maybe if they jump on the Chrono bandwagon too they will do just that - if their product is the winner that is. hah
@@foonus406 I'm 99% sure Hornady has an industrial doppler radar they use for calculating BC, and it is likely from the company that made the Labradar (Infinition).
Subscribing simply because I am a WEGC member also.
25:18 - even though you had it mounted on top were you still using a "rifle" session and the side-alignment profile ? I just got my Xero C1 and I'm looking to see just how forgiving the alignment actually is. Like in pistol mode the alignment profile shows shooting 5-15" over the top vs rifle is 5-15" to the side.... but how much does that actually matter and does it impact reading accuracy/consistency? Probably not but... inquiring minds want to know. lol
Yes, rifle with the low speed profile. Someone else on youtube posted their own test of the Xero C1 and placement/location with rimfire. In the grand scheme of things, I don't think it really matters as long as it picks up the round. With rimfire in all types of placements I would use (tripod bench, arca arm, diving board), the Xero C1 is reading the same offset from the LabRadar and Magnetospeed, respectively.
There's a 0.1% error in these things so at rimfire speeds we're talking 1 FPS per 1000 FPS. I can't imagine placement would result in much variance and if there is, within 2 fps per 1000.
if you throw a couple more instruments in the mix I'm sure you would end up with a whole new batch of skewed data, enjoy the Garmin , its quick and easy
Lots of lab radars gonna be for sale on the web.
They are overpriced anyway😅
It’s funny how you retain the screen protector because “I’m an Asian”. I’m still running my 3 year old LabRadar with the OG screen protector on, and I’m an Asian, too. Lol. I’m not really trying to protect the screen or anything, just don’t feel bothered by it, so it’s been staying there for years.
I enjoyed your review; however, I don't think that you are accurately addressing the velocity differences between the 3 devices. I would suggest that since the Garmin and LabRadar are doppler devices are slower because of the device offset. Think Pythagorium theorem. If you accept that the MagnetoSpeed is on the same vertical and horizontal plains, the offset of both the vertical and horizontal plains for the doppler devices increases the time return, which would make the bullet velocity appear slightly slower. I would suspect that if you were to mount the Garmin at either 3 or 9 o'clock on a handguard picatinny rail, the velocity shown on the Garmin would be between the MagnetoSpeed and the LabRadar, especially if the LabRadar were placed adjacent to the Garmin.
"I would suspect that if you were to mount the Garmin at either 3 or 9 o'clock on a handguard picatinny rail, the velocity shown on the Garmin would be between the MagnetoSpeed and the LabRadar, especially if the LabRadar were placed adjacent to the Garmin."
The offset differences are the same regardless of where I position the Garmin, either table/ground using the mini-tripod, on handguard (homemade or Area419 mount), or on diving board. I have been using the Garmin side-by-side with the LabRadar and Magnetospeed several range sessions.
I am quite surprised how there has been a lot of nitpicking placement of the Garmin in this range vlog (this video isn't a review), especially given I am running a sample size of one on each unit.
www.ocabj.net/garmin-xero-c1-pro-chronograph-review/
Do you have to input a projectile weight or velocity range on the Garmin?
You don't have to input projectile weight. As far as velocity range, yes, that is selected when you start a new session. The way you have to select the velo range when starting a new session is a good method to make sure that a person is set up to collect data appropriately.
From my understanding you have to put in a bullet weight. Maybe why speed was slower. But again im no expert just watched other videos
@@seanr697 Bullet weight has no impact on the velocity reading. It is only an optional input if you want the kinetic energy data or power factor data calulated.
Kinetic energy is only in foot lbs, not in joules. You can’t mix metric and imperial settings unfortunately . I haven’t seen it calculate IPSC power factor either
It would seem to me that based off technology that Magnetospeed is the most accurate
Not technology used is the main factor in accuracy but perc of error , possible resolution, system clock and many other factors determine that.
Good video however, the garmin is not set up correctly. Other reviews show it being within 5 fps of the MS or Labradar.
Well, if I have it setup incorrectly, then I guess that means this contradicts the notion the Garmin is simple to setup.
@@ocabjbro it showed you on the screen how to position it in relation to the muzzle... You skipped right past that in your video. 😂😂😂
@@MrMcIntyre1220 Muzzle brake blast radius. The reading differences are still present if it is mounted on the arca rail.
But in all seriousness, you're nitpicking the data. There's a claim of .1% degree of accuracy on the radar units and .5% on the Magnetospeed. Assuming they drift .1% either way, it's going to result in differences as wide as what I'm seeing here. Note: At rimfire speeds, Labradar and Garmin are about dead on (1fps diff) from what I'm seeing regardless of the placement. As far as position, the main reason for 5-15 inches from barrel and 5-15 from muzzle is so it picks up the projectile.
Unknown Munitions is such a ripoff. $34 for the simple device, and $16 for shipping, and then tax.
literally has directions on setup on screen… doesn’t follow placement directions lol
Muzzle brake blast
Just some feedback. You can skip the first three minutes of talking.
I'll take that into consideration. Talking about what the range session is all about is sort of what I do.