@@donrutter6765 i had 3000 stall and roller rockers. Problem is cam was too big. Cam went to 6800. Heads were worked to 6000. Edelbrock performer manifold only went to 5500. After 5500 it fell off. You need the whole package not just a big lumpy cam. As i found out...
Great video! For cam buck, there's a little trick that deeply geared Jeep drivers use: Take your right foot while on the gas and rotate it slightly to the right, allowing it to contact the transmission tunnel. Use the tunnel as a brace to keep your foot from moving up and down... also better than slipping the clutch. :)
Open a shop in NC!!!!!! This was a really good video. Most auto youtubers out there you learn nothing. Whenever I watch a CSP video, I always come away with learning something. This is my favorite Car Channel by far.
Yeah just 5 grand or so every time it goes bad not to mention different when you run it and go to cut it off too quick and having oil bake in and onto the turbine blades
Actually there are three compression ratios, static, effective, and dynamic. Static is the ratio of BDC to TDC, effective is when the intake valve closes to TDC, and dynamic is when the engine is running and you get a ram effect from the velocity of the intake charge and has to do with volumetric efficiency. from Dema Elgin's "High Performance Engine Theory"
I have a custom CSP cam in my LS1 C5. Love the way it idles and drivability is spot on with Andrew’s tune. You can hear it in several of my videos. There’s a lot of truth in this video. No need to sacrifice drivability for power. 👍
Great video. I wish more people would watch this video. I went through this big cam stuff back in the day. For my C5 I threw a little 228/230 .585/.585 112 lsa and it made more power than my buddy's big cam in his C5. I learned the hard way 15 years ago. My C5 made shy of 400whp and 388wtq in the end and it still chops nicely.
ANDREW!!! what size cam would you recommend for a 2001 c5 z51 my car has all the 2002 upgrades with the ls6 intake ect.. cold air, headers, xpipe, corsa extreme.. 342 rear end.... i want the max cam i can get with only changing the springs, rods, harmon bal, maybe timing chain.... i have seen some cams done with only springs and rods... but these were kinda small barely a bump better than stock!! thank you ahead of time!!!
So, what's your expert opinion for a boat engine? 5.7l vortec, Edelbrock 1409 600CFM, don't know what intake yet, L31 heads, I want to limit revs to 5500RPM, develop high torque throughout and hoping to reach 350 to 400HP. I was thinking of upgrading the cam to a hydraulic roller 224/230 intake exhaust duration with 112 degree separation. Is that something that can be done, waste of money?
Glad you cleared those up for so many. You also cleared up how many car seats fit across the 2nd row in the Atlas. I have the same two boosters for my two little ones and a forward facing car seat for my youngest. They all fit! Getting a traverse with the full second row.
I GOT A 1990 K5 BLAZER 5.7 WITH ECU GOT ENGINE REBUILD GOT THE BLOCK BORED 30 OVER AND DID A FEW UP GRADES IM USING EX262H CAM IN IT WHAT WOULD BE A GOOD COVERTER TO USE I TOOK THE STOCK ONE OUT..AND GOT 2000 TO 2400 STALL .. IS THAT GOOD WITH THAT CAM
I bought a 1998 C5 in 2017 w a bone stock motor. The previous owner added long tube headers and a cold air intake. It was dyno'd at 318 HP wheel to ground (i.e. 395 to crank). Stock it's about 276 HP wheel to ground (345 at the crank). While that's the most I'll get without changing the cam, it just goes to show that you can squeeze a bit more performance out without having to swap out the cam. But if at some point I decide to change the cam, I would not overcam it either.
What do you reccomend for this combination? original GEN I SBC cast crank. I was thinking a comp hydraulic roller XR252HR , XR258HR, or XR264HR. Its a daily driver automatic trans. Here is the proposed engine specs. 9.325" tall deck Dart block, 4.155" bore, 350 mains, 3.53" offset cast 350 crank, 6.25" rods, 1.310" piston, dart iron eagle heads 175cc. ported bowls, various mods, Edelbrock performer EPS intake. large vacuum supply electric vacuum booster to a sniper EFI, switching to trick flow super 23 175cc heads. 60cc chambers. /67cc exhaust 175cc intake runners. Uses a 0.040" felpro gasket for quench area on zero piston to deck. might use a brodiX hp1 4 hole intake based on a big tq 350 dyno with trickflow heads. this is a 383 with roughly a 350's stroke and over bore of a 400. wondering what the power shall be. Shall cc the piston and heads to desired CC for cam used. This is a torque priority daily driver fuel efficiency hot rod engine for a 2nd gen F body camaro with matched to cam converter and matched gears and transmission full manual automatic with O.D. TH200-4R with PATC modded ratios and components. The tires at all 4 corners are P255-60 r15's. the wheels are 15X9.5's 4." bs with spacers on rear for even track width with fender flares at all 4 corners . Engine mounting is set back, 4 corner independent suspension. Manual double rack and pinion. Mechanized assist manual dual master disc brake system. This particular engine may benefit from a still small but larger XR276HR or XR282HR , and its middle ground XR288HR options at part throttle even. may try a couple. Want all opinions from everyone. Shall not be offended anything said.
"But my buddy's girlfriend's brother runs a 255/272 @ .050" and runs 9's @ 152". Surprised you didn't get some troll saying you're wrong. I've tried for years, with varying degrees of success, trying to convince people to not over cam their cars. Glad you did this video and hopefully people will listen to you. Who cares how the car sounds if it runs like crap. Nice, keep up the good work.
@@pistoreroloco That won't do anything but make it more likely for fuel to fall out of suspension. You want some turbulence on the walls to create a boundary layer. The reason 243 heads don't gain anything from intake lifter over .600 is due to the valve diameter of the intake valve.
A lower gear ratio rear end (Example 4.10 vs 3.23) will get your rpms up sooner in 1st gear thus helping eliminate bucking at low speeds. Since you have a 6 speed and almost never get to top speed, you can cruise comfortably also.
Jason Bisenius, He is telling you that a cam that is too big will lower your nominal compression ratio in the engine. Your rear gear is not in the engine and cannot fix that.
i got a 02 Z06 with a vindicator with 215 TFS heads and fast 92/92 throttle/intake. car made 483 on dyno jet goes 1/4 11.50 / 11.60 consistent. that cam is more of a 383/402 ls stroker but with the right combo and TUNE it can be done. 👍👍
Good peak numbers. I honestly expected the numbers to be higher horsepower on mine but the mid range and low end to suffer. Just remember peak horsepower is only at 1 RPM, out of probably 7000 or so on your motor
Complete Street Performance yea ur right...I’m not focused on dyno numbers just was surprised on the numbers, but of course i installed 3.90 gears so it wouldn’t be a dog on the low end.
I worked at a major racing shop (engine builder) here in Alabama back in the dawn of 5.0 stuff (88-96) and one of the biggest mistakes folks made with mustangs was over-canning them my boss was more than happy to fix them up, he was a hardcore racer and would grind hydraulics with similar spec sheets to the solid rollers lol didn't work very well. Most those were 302s obviously. I ran true street in nmra and ffw. Was fortunate to set some records, and seemed that I always had A. success with these "smaller" cams. I enjoy the channel immensely you guys hub great info and treat people AWESOME keep up the good work- wish I lived closer def would be a customer. Already..... I have a Coyote with twins (hellion) in a clean fox and 18F150 w/kenne bell (nightmare build but hella 4wd launch) Starting channel soon wife has ZL1 (19) will def Need parts .
Such a good video, really liked how you didn't try to make everything sound all fluffy and perfect. Showing the bucking was awesome, thanks for posting!
The smaller cam sounds exactly like the AMC 360 I just built. It had a similar issue, the cam in it was too big and they were running a stock valve train. It was eating lifters due to a much larger base circle with stock push rods and non adjustable rockers which ended up wiping out a rod bearing from oil pressure loss.
I have a 66 289 block with 302 heads, edelbrock carb and assault intake manifold. Duel tube air intake and hooked headers. In a weight reduced 71 torino. What do you recommend for cam and lifters?
I have a 09 Silverado 6.2 l9h ordered a TSP VVT2 cam 220/232 .600 113 lsa 3200 stall. Is this a good match? My first cammed vehicle I have a good shop to tune the vvt. Can I daily this?
It's so important to size the cam for what your heads will flow. Exuast, compression ratio. Diff gears, manifold runner lengths. What a difference Andrew. Sounds awesome now 😊🔥🔥💯👍🤜🤛😎🤙
Yeah, you dont know how may stock 302 and 350 engines I have worked on with 750 and 850 DP and many of them auto trans which is even worse. Strip car is different. My little nitrous 306 ran the quickest ET with a 950 on it. But I run a 650 on the street which is plenty big for small cubes.
I'm a retired ASE Master Technician and was trained at the Atlanta GM Training Center. I've been working on cars all my life, well, since I was 16. I'm 60 now. One thing you didn't mention was lift. I get it about duration causing all those driveability problems and losing total power. But calling a cam with greater duration a "bigger" cam is maybe not quite accurate. It may have weighed more because there was more metal in it: more total lobe volume. But if the lift on it wasn't higher, it wasn't actually bigger in my book. I'm not criticizing, just playing a semantics game that is valid. BTW, I think you named the video correctly. Something you might not understand is why so many guys were willing to use a cam with off-idle instability like a 242 duration cam. It was because in the old days we had to work with flat lifters. Back then the manufacturers didn't give us roller lifters. And because the width of the lifter limited the rate of rise on the cam lobe, you could get a lot more total lift out of a cam that had a longer duration. Basically we gained a lot of power even at the same RPM because we could get more lift if the duration was longer. And because we were also using carburetors we could play around with the jets and tune out a lot of the driveability issues. Lifter width also gave Chrysler an advantage because they all had wider lifters. You could get more lift at a given duration with a Chrysler, but sacrificed RPM with the heavier lifter. GM engines had the narrowest (and lightest) of the V8 lifters, and the "242" cams became the most popular with those mouse motor lovers. Today with roller lifters a cam grinder can get as much lift out of a 220 degree cam as he can out of a 242 cam. One more thing you didn't mention was how much advance timing was dialed into the cams. If that 242 had too much advance and the "smaller" cam was dialed in correctly that would explain why your new cam made more power. My guess is that 242 cam was designed to be used with a single plane or even a tunnel ram manifold and was supposed to idle at 2000 rpm and have a 4000 stall torque convertor driving a 2-speed Powerglide and a redline at 8000 rpm. Strictly drag racing, not meant for the street, which would explain why it had so much advance. With some tweaks to that cams timing, I think it would have had a competitive torque curve and make more total horsepower on the top end. Looking at the torque curve it had approaching 7000, my guess is that cam was dialed in to make a lot more HP at 8000 rpm. But we won't know, will we?
Very well said Ladamyre. Few people seem to understand camshafts and valve timing. A bigger cam has the potential to make much more power at high RPM than a small (shorter duration) camshaft does. However, in order for that to actually happen, the rest of the induction and exhaust systems also have to be capable of working at high RPM. In this case, the engine was over cammed because the bigger cam made peak power at a higher RPM than the rest of the engine did. Under camming is also a possibility, although it is much more rare in street engines because they're mostly designed to run at lower RPMS to begin with. The best example of an undercammed stock engine was the Boss 429. People think that the Boss 429 Mustang must be fast as hell with THAT engine crammed into a Mustang, but they were actually dogs because the relatively small camshaft that was factory installed was pretty much done by the time the heads were actually flowing well. Those massive intake ports didn't have enough port velocity for good flow characteristics below 5,000 RPM. Put headers and a big cam in those and they would REALLY wake up. The Chrysler 440 is a much better street engine than the Hemi for the same reason. The Hemi was VERY well suited for racing (as we all know) but usually ran like shit at low RPM's while the 440 was good off idle but was pretty much done by 6 grand or so. Chevy made two completely different heads for their big block for the same reason as well. Their oval port heads are great street heads while the square port heads are good race heads. Chevy actually makes a third REALLY small port head (AKA peanut port heads) for their heavy truck engines to maximize low end torque since that's where they really need to make good power. Those heads are junk above 4,500 RPM but pull like hell from idle to 4,000. The bottom line is if you are going to install a long duration camshaft to make power up at high RPM, you need to rework (or replace) the cylinder heads, intake, and exhaust system to ensure that they are all capable of flowing the amount of air the engine is capable of flowing at the RPM range the cam is designed to work in. If the cam is designed to work at 4,000 to 8,000 RPM, the rest of the engine had better be capable of flowing the CFM's the engine is going to need at 8,000 RPM or you'll lose low and mid range without gaining at the top end because the engine isn't able to breathe adequately up there. At that point you also have to consider if the engine components can actually live up there. Chances are the stock rods, pistons, and entire stock valvetrain isn't going to live for very long up there. Valvetrain weight becomes an issue because of the spring pressures needed to prevent valve float, especially with pushrod engines because the valvetrain is a lot heavier than an overhead cam. The best bet is to do a little research to find out what RPM range the stock parts you plan on keeping work well in and buy a cam that maximizes power output within that range. Some engines can handle more cam than others.
@@craigcampbell8560 Right on Craig. It's a total package few "mechanics" understand. Today with dual OHC engines common, variable valve timing and even solenoid operated computer controlled valves operating dual intake and exhaust valves on dual ports, the sky's the limit. Some guy in Sweden I think (I'm not going to look it up now) is making million dollar cars for the Billionaire Boys Club members and he's doing all of that and more. Finally redesigning and making use of the capabilities of the misunderstood torque convertor, he's doing the things I think most of the engineers could have done years ago but were discouraged from doing because of the unholy alliance the automobile industry has with Big Oil who don't want fuel efficient cars to become commonplace. I get a laugh though because Big Oil, who has promoted racing to get the short-term benefit of gas guzzling street hot-rods, didn't realize that eventually performance seeking would result in highly efficient engines. That 100 mpg car is just on the horizon.
I have a vrx-5 cam .601/.605 and i think it's a 113°. Pulls hard to 6,800. I stuck a ported fast 92 on and I have ported 243's waiting to on. Lq4 block at the shop and 76/75 turbo waiting to go on 🙃🙃
Would have been interesting to see the actual specs of. Both such as lift, duration, overlap and lobe separation, since each one can change driving characteristics.
What would you charge to put a cam in a 2012 GMC Sierra? I dont care about sound I just want all bottom end torque for gas mileage off the line for city driving
I know I undercammed my 383 but I more than made up for it with amazing heads (AFR’s). I chose it this way because ole Smokey said to build with the best heads you can and a tame camshaft vs stock heads with a monster cam. This video shows why that’s so true. 13” of vacuum and torque as soon as you touch the gas is hard to not appreciate. The cam specs are just 225*@.050” and .560” lift, single pattern on 110LSA. Makes a great driver with wide power and up to 6k. I also have room to grow if I get tired of this power level in a 3200lbs car.
Cory Holbrook. Then you didn't under cam your car. You did a nice job with the build. You had it figured out from the beginning. Stop selling yourself short. You are a better car guy then many I have met.
I build Harley engines for a living and I run into this all the time, I am always straightening out engines that some "bigger is better" shop has all screwed up, about 50% of the time I wind up telling the owners that they need to get another set of heads because some hack gouged too much material out of the ports to get some huge flow number that's completely out of wack for what they're trying to do.
What would be the appropriate size cam for an 6.0 with4l60e trans in a 83 cutlass?? Itll be driven regularly around town maybe kick a couple on the weekends but really not tryna go crazy just something dependable that go get it if i need it to
I'm at .600 with 108 LSA, 305 adv duration Chet Herbert custom grind. But my compression is 11.5:1. Big cams bleed off compression, so you have to boost up the compression again with pistons. Best article on this is "Compression comprehension" by David Vizard.
I had a question , I know you guys deal with LS/LT platform primarily , do you recommend a stage 1 comp cam on a 2019 mustang GT 10r80 for track use and all around drivability? thanks
I'm running a asa cam in my ls3 headed 370" lq9 , I love it but my wife constantly bitches about the smell, do you have any suggestions as to what cam would be more nose friendly and still make the power or close to what I'm getting now.....or should I just add some high flow cats.....even though it's a smog free nova
Good video bro. I agree. Any camshaft with a 240 intake duration is way too big for an ls1. Although if the heads were milled and were ported I bet the larger cam would make more power and torque but still not drive that well. A 240 intake duration cam works well in engines 400 cid+. I have an LS2 408 stroker engine with 12:8.1 compression and CNC LS3 heads I'm fitting a 242/257 113 LSA cam in it. What do you think?
You need a nice RV grind. Go with a .445 lift 195/198 duration 120 LSA. She will purr like a kitten. Your engine will make so much vacuum, you're gonna want to convert to vacuum powered wiper blades. Be sure to back that cam up with a nice 2:53 gear out back so you can make the BIG mpgs! Of course, if anyone asks you what cam you are running... the only correct answer is "secret custom grind".
@@codyisarat I'm staying NA. It's not really suitable for boost. Too much overlap. I have a 236/244 making 505rwhp in my engine now but power drops off too quick after 6000rpm. The cam is too small. What LSA is your camshaft?
Sure did. It was in a previous video when we found the broken valve spring. This is my car, so I actually spent more time than usual getting it dialed in on the big camshaft.
The vindicator camshaft is a 240/244 112 LSA. Vengence racing have crappy cam specs anyway. Not enough split. Still waiting to hear back from in regards to my stroker andrew. Cheers
It really depends on the entire setup. My 408 runs a 235/247 on a 115 LSA with a 6 speed and aside from the idle (and fuel economy) it drives like the stock ls1 did. No issues in a parking lot or low speed cruising in 6th gear. And all that with a single plane intake manifold and SD tune.
I was going to go with the stage 4 cam for my 5th gen camaro ss but now I’m even more confused. What’s the best cam to get for a 6.2 daily driven Camaro SS?
I wanted daily driveability on my corvette c5 with small stall so I'm doing Tsp 224/228 with 600 lift 112lsa cam with prc ported 2.5 heads should make good power and still be great drive
What spec cam would you suggest for my 19 camaro ss? its an A10 if that changes anything. What I want is a nice choppy idle but also dont want a terrible daily drive since im at low speeds a lot in the city. edit: The only mods I have is an axle back borla, no performance mods. i'm also planning on doing headers with the cam
but did u run cnc'd heads........ did you port and flow the heads.......... r u running hydrolic rollers and better valve springs........ u may have restricted ur output gains of the larger cam. Just putting the smaller cam back in u are matching the og 243 heads Do this vid again but try mixing the heads and Intake. Upgrade the throttle body to a 103mm... and twin tip sparks..... try hi rise intakes and Fast lsx or lsa intakes........... efi vrs twin 750 cfm carbs
227 234 111+2 tsp does awesome dd for me. I find its still a bit much for normal traffic even with a killer tune. Sometimes i wish i went smaller cam better heads. I still love the rush when wot even with 241's. 352hp 328tq mustang dyno.
I have a 5.3 w/flat top and 243 heads. I was offered this cam BTR 32430112. This will be a driver, and wanted a great sound. I will be using a sheet metal intake
Yes, that makes sense. Duration has the most effect for a street car where you still need low end unless you want to feel like your “rowing” the car with the shifter. Lots of lift helps at all rpm’s.
Does it buck with an automatic trans and I have the chevy SS and want to go bigger cam, I know you get allot of power from just a cam in the LS3 Plus the sound gives me a hard on. lol
Can't count the "small" cams out. I had an 02 Camaro 6 speed with a Howard's ASA cam. 226 236 at .050 duration, .525 lift. Made 404 hp, 385 torque to the wheels. Only other mods was LT headers and CAI. Very little bucking mainly in 6th gear low speed. Sounded amazing and power everywhere. And that was a 200k mile engine!
Hey Andrew any good ideas I can do to my 6 banger Camaro 14 besides bolt ons I already have a cold air intake throttle control, throttle spacer and x pipe with straight pipe but I would like to see some big performance im wondering if a tune would show me that any advice?
"It's not about Stage 1, 2 or 3 it's about Stage You, customized power for a custom individual"
"Stages are Bullshit!" Thank your sir. That earned you a sub!
Love the fact that you do real world comparisons! People love to go big and flashy and that’s not always the best option.
This is a good video and good example for guys like me. The hot rod community needs more guys who share info freely like you do.
Hello i have a very big cam I think the duration is 2.50 and the problem is that my spark plugs keep burning do I need better heads
My builder did the same for me I wanted the biggest cam and he talked me out of it.. Still have the chop but great power and drivability👌
From my understanding a good tuner can all but eliminate any surge you have
Yeah but the right cam always makes more power
@@s.v.gadder1443 absolutely
I really enjoy your videos and I’m sure a lot of us “regular folks” can relate to things you do and how you test different combos and parts👍
I had a crane commander solid cam (3400 to 6800) in my 302 windsor. Milder hydraulic setups used to beat me more often than i would have liked.
Thats because big cams need more compression, more stall converter, and more rear gear. Its a package deal not just a camshaft.
@@donrutter6765 i had 3000 stall and roller rockers. Problem is cam was too big. Cam went to 6800. Heads were worked to 6000. Edelbrock performer manifold only went to 5500. After 5500 it fell off. You need the whole package not just a big lumpy cam. As i found out...
@@Stm-ij8wi such low rpms
@@ellisjackson3355 a 7000 rpm v8 streetcar is pretty high revs
Performer intake is good to 6500
Nice video bruh
look who we have here a jdm boi
Mikeyyyyy
What are the other specs for the 225-235 cam you put it?
Lift? (Intake & Exhaust)
LSA ?
Great video! For cam buck, there's a little trick that deeply geared Jeep drivers use: Take your right foot while on the gas and rotate it slightly to the right, allowing it to contact the transmission tunnel. Use the tunnel as a brace to keep your foot from moving up and down... also better than slipping the clutch. :)
Open a shop in NC!!!!!! This was a really good video. Most auto youtubers out there you learn nothing. Whenever I watch a CSP video, I always come away with learning something. This is my favorite Car Channel by far.
This is whats lovely about turbo cars. It's still very tame and streetable but capable of making 1200 horse when needed.
Yeah just 5 grand or so every time it goes bad not to mention different when you run it and go to cut it off too quick and having oil bake in and onto the turbine blades
If your rebuilding that often you should probably just stop building lol
Actually there are three compression ratios, static, effective, and dynamic. Static is the ratio of BDC to TDC, effective is when the intake valve closes to TDC, and dynamic is when the engine is running and you get a ram effect from the velocity of the intake charge and has to do with volumetric efficiency. from Dema Elgin's "High Performance Engine Theory"
I have a custom CSP cam in my LS1 C5. Love the way it idles and drivability is spot on with Andrew’s tune. You can hear it in several of my videos. There’s a lot of truth in this video. No need to sacrifice drivability for power. 👍
Just checked out your channel! Awesome. Subscribed. Keep up the good work.
Many thanks for the kind and motivating comment! 👍 Lots more on the way.
Great video. I wish more people would watch this video. I went through this big cam stuff back in the day. For my C5 I threw a little 228/230 .585/.585 112 lsa and it made more power than my buddy's big cam in his C5. I learned the hard way 15 years ago. My C5 made shy of 400whp and 388wtq in the end and it still chops nicely.
I have that same camshaft in my Chevelle
Ss2?
@@shifthappens8475 mine is a ss2
@@shifthappens8475 idle vids on my page
My stage 3 comp cam, I just coast and put it in neutral at low speeds than 1st to keep me coasting than back to neutral.
So what was the lift and LSA for the new cam?
We used to put in big cams and then use roads lifters A very good combination good performance and good drivability
Rhodes lifters are awesome!
ANDREW!!! what size cam would you recommend for a 2001 c5 z51 my car has all the 2002 upgrades with the ls6 intake ect.. cold air, headers, xpipe, corsa extreme.. 342 rear end.... i want the max cam i can get with only changing the springs, rods, harmon bal, maybe timing chain.... i have seen some cams done with only springs and rods... but these were kinda small barely a bump better than stock!! thank you ahead of time!!!
So, what's your expert opinion for a boat engine? 5.7l vortec, Edelbrock 1409 600CFM, don't know what intake yet, L31 heads,
I want to limit revs to 5500RPM, develop high torque throughout and hoping to reach 350 to 400HP.
I was thinking of upgrading the cam to a hydraulic roller 224/230 intake exhaust duration with 112 degree separation.
Is that something that can be done, waste of money?
Awesome video! Always a huge supporter of Complete Street Performance! Go Andrew!!!
Glad you cleared those up for so many. You also cleared up how many car seats fit across the 2nd row in the Atlas. I have the same two boosters for my two little ones and a forward facing car seat for my youngest. They all fit! Getting a traverse with the full second row.
I GOT A 1990 K5 BLAZER 5.7 WITH ECU GOT ENGINE REBUILD GOT THE BLOCK BORED 30 OVER AND DID A FEW UP GRADES IM USING EX262H CAM IN IT WHAT WOULD BE A GOOD COVERTER TO USE I TOOK THE STOCK ONE OUT..AND GOT 2000 TO 2400 STALL .. IS THAT GOOD WITH THAT CAM
I’ve watched a bunch of your videos now..... I think your a good guy with excellent content!
I bought a 1998 C5 in 2017 w a bone stock motor. The previous owner added long tube headers and a cold air intake. It was dyno'd at 318 HP wheel to ground (i.e. 395 to crank). Stock it's about 276 HP wheel to ground (345 at the crank). While that's the most I'll get without changing the cam, it just goes to show that you can squeeze a bit more performance out without having to swap out the cam. But if at some point I decide to change the cam, I would not overcam it either.
Your lips knocked my phone outta my hand
Goddamn 😂
💀💀💀
"Inflate to 35 psi"
🤣🤣
What do you reccomend for this combination? original GEN I SBC cast crank. I was thinking a comp hydraulic roller XR252HR , XR258HR, or XR264HR. Its a daily driver automatic trans. Here is the proposed engine specs. 9.325" tall deck Dart block, 4.155" bore, 350 mains, 3.53" offset cast 350 crank, 6.25" rods, 1.310" piston, dart iron eagle heads 175cc. ported bowls, various mods, Edelbrock performer EPS intake. large vacuum supply electric vacuum booster to a sniper EFI, switching to trick flow super 23 175cc heads. 60cc chambers. /67cc exhaust 175cc intake runners. Uses a 0.040" felpro gasket for quench area on zero piston to deck. might use a brodiX hp1 4 hole intake based on a big tq 350 dyno with trickflow heads. this is a 383 with roughly a 350's stroke and over bore of a 400. wondering what the power shall be. Shall cc the piston and heads to desired CC for cam used. This is a torque priority daily driver fuel efficiency hot rod engine for a 2nd gen F body camaro with matched to cam converter and matched gears and transmission full manual automatic with O.D. TH200-4R with PATC modded ratios and components. The tires at all 4 corners are P255-60 r15's. the wheels are 15X9.5's 4." bs with spacers on rear for even track width with fender flares at all 4 corners . Engine mounting is set back, 4 corner independent suspension. Manual double rack and pinion. Mechanized assist manual dual master disc brake system. This particular engine may benefit from a still small but larger XR276HR or XR282HR , and its middle ground XR288HR options at part throttle even. may try a couple. Want all opinions from everyone. Shall not be offended anything said.
"But my buddy's girlfriend's brother runs a 255/272 @ .050" and runs 9's @ 152". Surprised you didn't get some troll saying you're wrong. I've tried for years, with varying degrees of success, trying to convince people to not over cam their cars. Glad you did this video and hopefully people will listen to you. Who cares how the car sounds if it runs like crap. Nice, keep up the good work.
Stock 243 heads dont flow anymore over .600 lift. Match your cam to the heads capabilities.
unless your polish and bore
@@pistoreroloco polishing doesn't do anything
@@ryanaxberg9263 it creates bless to 9ne turbulence when done right. Flows smoother and faster.
@@pistoreroloco YOU ARE THE VILLAGE IDIOT!
@@pistoreroloco That won't do anything but make it more likely for fuel to fall out of suspension. You want some turbulence on the walls to create a boundary layer. The reason 243 heads don't gain anything from intake lifter over .600 is due to the valve diameter of the intake valve.
A lower gear ratio rear end (Example 4.10 vs 3.23) will get your rpms up sooner in 1st gear thus helping eliminate bucking at low speeds. Since you have a 6 speed and almost never get to top speed, you can cruise comfortably also.
Jason Bisenius, He is telling you that a cam that is too big will lower your nominal compression ratio in the engine. Your rear gear is not in the engine and cannot fix that.
Never mentioned lift, centerline or tune. 10 degrees in duration isn’t a whole lot.
I heard him say 112 on the "monster" cam shaft. 10 degrees isn't a lot from 204-214 but it is north of 230 degrees.
Yep I would be interested in the centerline number I am betting 108 on the small cam.
San Man Agreed
Complete Street Performance I for one appreciate you coming here with the numbers Sir 👍🏻 Whats the Adv duration, I am guessing close to 300
@@completestreetperformance thats some high ramp rate
What do you guys think of this camshaft in my LS 408 ci engine?
244/252 114lsa +4?
i got a 02 Z06 with a vindicator with 215 TFS heads and fast 92/92 throttle/intake. car made 483 on dyno jet goes 1/4 11.50 / 11.60 consistent.
that cam is more of a 383/402 ls stroker but with the right combo and TUNE it can be done. 👍👍
Good peak numbers. I honestly expected the numbers to be higher horsepower on mine but the mid range and low end to suffer. Just remember peak horsepower is only at 1 RPM, out of probably 7000 or so on your motor
Complete Street Performance yea ur right...I’m not focused on dyno numbers just was surprised on the numbers, but of course i installed 3.90 gears so it wouldn’t be a dog on the low end.
I worked at a major racing shop (engine builder) here in Alabama back in the dawn of 5.0 stuff (88-96) and one of the biggest mistakes folks made with mustangs was over-canning them my boss was more than happy to fix them up, he was a hardcore racer and would grind hydraulics with similar spec sheets to the solid rollers lol didn't work very well. Most those were 302s obviously. I ran true street in nmra and ffw. Was fortunate to set some records, and seemed that I always had
A. success with these "smaller" cams. I enjoy the channel immensely you guys hub great info and treat people AWESOME keep up the good work- wish I lived closer def would be a customer. Already..... I have a Coyote with twins (hellion) in a clean fox and 18F150 w/kenne bell (nightmare build but hella 4wd launch) Starting channel soon wife has ZL1 (19) will def Need parts .
*give great info, sorry..
*give great info, sorry..
What was a common cam spec back then?
Such a good video, really liked how you didn't try to make everything sound all fluffy and perfect. Showing the bucking was awesome, thanks for posting!
The smaller cam sounds exactly like the AMC 360 I just built. It had a similar issue, the cam in it was too big and they were running a stock valve train. It was eating lifters due to a much larger base circle with stock push rods and non adjustable rockers which ended up wiping out a rod bearing from oil pressure loss.
Would you use the same 225/235 "small" cam on a LS2 with ported 243 heads and fast intake?
You’re a great presenter man this was a dope video 🔥
I have a 66 289 block with 302 heads, edelbrock carb and assault intake manifold. Duel tube air intake and hooked headers. In a weight reduced 71 torino. What do you recommend for cam and lifters?
The car must have felt much more lively on the street with that flatter torque curve
I have a 09 Silverado 6.2 l9h ordered a TSP VVT2 cam 220/232 .600 113 lsa 3200 stall. Is this a good match? My first cammed vehicle I have a good shop to tune the vvt. Can I daily this?
Would love to see how ported heads improve the power and torque curve
It's so important to size the cam for what your heads will flow. Exuast, compression ratio. Diff gears, manifold runner lengths. What a difference Andrew. Sounds awesome now 😊🔥🔥💯👍🤜🤛😎🤙
'Over Camming' - Classic mistake for decades.
Over carbing a car too. The worst thing you can do IMO.
Oh yeh. Everybody would just throw a big 4 bbl carb. On the intake and expect big horsepower. Only they would get bog city.
Yeah, you dont know how may stock 302 and 350 engines I have worked on with 750 and 850 DP and many of them auto trans which is even worse. Strip car is different. My little nitrous 306 ran the quickest ET with a 950 on it. But I run a 650 on the street which is plenty big for small cubes.
What’s the custom cam specs ? And sounds like
Ya got some lifter noise.
Over-camming? More like under-sizing. No such thing as too much cam, just not enough engine.
I'm a retired ASE Master Technician and was trained at the Atlanta GM Training Center. I've been working on cars all my life, well, since I was 16. I'm 60 now.
One thing you didn't mention was lift. I get it about duration causing all those driveability problems and losing total power. But calling a cam with greater duration a "bigger" cam is maybe not quite accurate. It may have weighed more because there was more metal in it: more total lobe volume. But if the lift on it wasn't higher, it wasn't actually bigger in my book. I'm not criticizing, just playing a semantics game that is valid. BTW, I think you named the video correctly.
Something you might not understand is why so many guys were willing to use a cam with off-idle instability like a 242 duration cam. It was because in the old days we had to work with flat lifters. Back then the manufacturers didn't give us roller lifters. And because the width of the lifter limited the rate of rise on the cam lobe, you could get a lot more total lift out of a cam that had a longer duration. Basically we gained a lot of power even at the same RPM because we could get more lift if the duration was longer. And because we were also using carburetors we could play around with the jets and tune out a lot of the driveability issues. Lifter width also gave Chrysler an advantage because they all had wider lifters. You could get more lift at a given duration with a Chrysler, but sacrificed RPM with the heavier lifter. GM engines had the narrowest (and lightest) of the V8 lifters, and the "242" cams became the most popular with those mouse motor lovers. Today with roller lifters a cam grinder can get as much lift out of a 220 degree cam as he can out of a 242 cam.
One more thing you didn't mention was how much advance timing was dialed into the cams. If that 242 had too much advance and the "smaller" cam was dialed in correctly that would explain why your new cam made more power. My guess is that 242 cam was designed to be used with a single plane or even a tunnel ram manifold and was supposed to idle at 2000 rpm and have a 4000 stall torque convertor driving a 2-speed Powerglide and a redline at 8000 rpm. Strictly drag racing, not meant for the street, which would explain why it had so much advance. With some tweaks to that cams timing, I think it would have had a competitive torque curve and make more total horsepower on the top end. Looking at the torque curve it had approaching 7000, my guess is that cam was dialed in to make a lot more HP at 8000 rpm.
But we won't know, will we?
Very well said Ladamyre. Few people seem to understand camshafts and valve timing. A bigger cam has the potential to make much more power at high RPM than a small (shorter duration) camshaft does. However, in order for that to actually happen, the rest of the induction and exhaust systems also have to be capable of working at high RPM. In this case, the engine was over cammed because the bigger cam made peak power at a higher RPM than the rest of the engine did.
Under camming is also a possibility, although it is much more rare in street engines because they're mostly designed to run at lower RPMS to begin with. The best example of an undercammed stock engine was the Boss 429. People think that the Boss 429 Mustang must be fast as hell with THAT engine crammed into a Mustang, but they were actually dogs because the relatively small camshaft that was factory installed was pretty much done by the time the heads were actually flowing well. Those massive intake ports didn't have enough port velocity for good flow characteristics below 5,000 RPM. Put headers and a big cam in those and they would REALLY wake up. The Chrysler 440 is a much better street engine than the Hemi for the same reason. The Hemi was VERY well suited for racing (as we all know) but usually ran like shit at low RPM's while the 440 was good off idle but was pretty much done by 6 grand or so. Chevy made two completely different heads for their big block for the same reason as well. Their oval port heads are great street heads while the square port heads are good race heads. Chevy actually makes a third REALLY small port head (AKA peanut port heads) for their heavy truck engines to maximize low end torque since that's where they really need to make good power. Those heads are junk above 4,500 RPM but pull like hell from idle to 4,000.
The bottom line is if you are going to install a long duration camshaft to make power up at high RPM, you need to rework (or replace) the cylinder heads, intake, and exhaust system to ensure that they are all capable of flowing the amount of air the engine is capable of flowing at the RPM range the cam is designed to work in. If the cam is designed to work at 4,000 to 8,000 RPM, the rest of the engine had better be capable of flowing the CFM's the engine is going to need at 8,000 RPM or you'll lose low and mid range without gaining at the top end because the engine isn't able to breathe adequately up there. At that point you also have to consider if the engine components can actually live up there. Chances are the stock rods, pistons, and entire stock valvetrain isn't going to live for very long up there. Valvetrain weight becomes an issue because of the spring pressures needed to prevent valve float, especially with pushrod engines because the valvetrain is a lot heavier than an overhead cam. The best bet is to do a little research to find out what RPM range the stock parts you plan on keeping work well in and buy a cam that maximizes power output within that range. Some engines can handle more cam than others.
@@craigcampbell8560 Right on Craig. It's a total package few "mechanics" understand. Today with dual OHC engines common, variable valve timing and even solenoid operated computer controlled valves operating dual intake and exhaust valves on dual ports, the sky's the limit.
Some guy in Sweden I think (I'm not going to look it up now) is making million dollar cars for the Billionaire Boys Club members and he's doing all of that and more. Finally redesigning and making use of the capabilities of the misunderstood torque convertor, he's doing the things I think most of the engineers could have done years ago but were discouraged from doing because of the unholy alliance the automobile industry has with Big Oil who don't want fuel efficient cars to become commonplace.
I get a laugh though because Big Oil, who has promoted racing to get the short-term benefit of gas guzzling street hot-rods, didn't realize that eventually performance seeking would result in highly efficient engines. That 100 mpg car is just on the horizon.
Who did the tuning on the old cam? You cant say a bigger cam isnt better if it wasn't tuned right from the start.
Great video and adorable, candid content at the end got an instant like!
Where can i DM you to see which cam would be best for me?
Great video great info great editing and great examples. People never believe me when I say these things
I have a vrx-5 cam .601/.605 and i think it's a 113°. Pulls hard to 6,800. I stuck a ported fast 92 on and I have ported 243's waiting to on. Lq4 block at the shop and 76/75 turbo waiting to go on 🙃🙃
What would you put in a 5.4L 3V F150 to get more power
Absolutely correct about the "stage" thing! It is absolute B.S.!
Would have been interesting to see the actual specs of. Both such as lift, duration, overlap and lobe separation, since each one can change driving characteristics.
What would you charge to put a cam in a 2012 GMC Sierra? I dont care about sound I just want all bottom end torque for gas mileage off the line for city driving
The cam needs to match the head flow also like you s as I'd the dcr falls off hard with big duration
And the lower end has to have the rpm capabilities to support the rpms at which the head flow is optimized
And the torque converter if running an Automatic
Need to match the heads, converter and gear. Not many people realise this. It all matters.
So what would be the best method to picking out a stage 1 cam for a daily driver it seems to be so many different specs for a stage 1 cam for an LS2
@@completestreetperformance thanks !!! I will call you soon probably 3 weeks hopefully picking up a 05 goat thanks for the reply
Hey Andrew since so many people wanna buy that blue plastic that covers the cars, you should put it on the website and they can order it.
I know I undercammed my 383 but I more than made up for it with amazing heads (AFR’s). I chose it this way because ole Smokey said to build with the best heads you can and a tame camshaft vs stock heads with a monster cam. This video shows why that’s so true. 13” of vacuum and torque as soon as you touch the gas is hard to not appreciate. The cam specs are just 225*@.050” and .560” lift, single pattern on 110LSA. Makes a great driver with wide power and up to 6k. I also have room to grow if I get tired of this power level in a 3200lbs car.
Cory Holbrook. Then you didn't under cam your car. You did a nice job with the build. You had it figured out from the beginning. Stop selling yourself short. You are a better car guy then many I have met.
I build Harley engines for a living and I run into this all the time, I am always straightening out engines that some "bigger is better" shop has all screwed up, about 50% of the time I wind up telling the owners that they need to get another set of heads because some hack gouged too much material out of the ports to get some huge flow number that's completely out of wack for what they're trying to do.
And that's without a tune right?
the vindicator would be great for 400+ cu in ported heads drag car
What would be the appropriate size cam for an 6.0 with4l60e trans in a 83 cutlass?? Itll be driven regularly around town maybe kick a couple on the weekends but really not tryna go crazy just something dependable that go get it if i need it to
83 Cutlass call Texas speed they can custom make a cam for your car!
My buddy has that big cam you have in his 02 camaro ss made 418hp what thermostat are you using 160 ?
I need a good cam for daily driving and occasionally going road course racing
Going with the 268 instead of the 274 in my 357 sbc
Where are you guys located? What would be best for a 392 hemi? 6.4l Charger.
My solid roller in my sb1 is 250 to 252 with 651 lift on a 110 lobe separation. I'm in debating to go hydraulic for a while now but hasn't as of yet
I'm at .600 with 108 LSA, 305 adv duration Chet Herbert custom grind. But my compression is 11.5:1. Big cams bleed off compression, so you have to boost up the compression again with pistons. Best article on this is "Compression comprehension" by David Vizard.
What is the name of the blue protectant wrap? Need dis
Yes do heads ported 243 or 799's with 2.02 intake valves.
So did you ever check the cranking compression before and after the cam swap?
I had a question , I know you guys deal with LS/LT platform primarily , do you recommend a stage 1 comp cam on a 2019 mustang GT 10r80 for track use and all around drivability? thanks
I'm running a asa cam in my ls3 headed 370" lq9 , I love it but my wife constantly bitches about the smell, do you have any suggestions as to what cam would be more nose friendly and still make the power or close to what I'm getting now.....or should I just add some high flow cats.....even though it's a smog free nova
Good video bro.
I agree.
Any camshaft with a 240 intake duration is way too big for an ls1.
Although if the heads were milled and were ported I bet the larger cam would make more power and torque but still not drive that well.
A 240 intake duration cam works well in engines 400 cid+.
I have an LS2 408 stroker engine with 12:8.1 compression and CNC LS3 heads
I'm fitting a 242/257 113 LSA cam in it.
What do you think?
You need a nice RV grind. Go with a .445 lift 195/198 duration 120 LSA. She will purr like a kitten. Your engine will make so much vacuum, you're gonna want to convert to vacuum powered wiper blades. Be sure to back that cam up with a nice 2:53 gear out back so you can make the BIG mpgs! Of course, if anyone asks you what cam you are running... the only correct answer is "secret custom grind".
@@fwh79FOXR6 idiot...
Thats a big cam bro. Are you staying na or boost/nitrous? I have a ls3 with a 227/239 and made 500rwhp and its considered a "blower cam"
@@codyisarat I'm staying NA. It's not really suitable for boost.
Too much overlap.
I have a 236/244 making 505rwhp in my engine now but power drops off too quick after 6000rpm.
The cam is too small.
What LSA is your camshaft?
Stock valve spring retainers on those dual springs?! Am I seeing that right?! No else catch that?!
Did you guys try and tune the bigger cam setup or just put it on the dyno and see what it would do?
Sure did. It was in a previous video when we found the broken valve spring. This is my car, so I actually spent more time than usual getting it dialed in on the big camshaft.
@@andrewzurick4933 interesting. Always wanted to see a test like this. Good to see good information being spread. 👍
Whats your take on a 6.2 lt1 engine? For a similar performance gain as the small cam in your z06?
@completestreetperformance
The vindicator camshaft is a 240/244 112 LSA.
Vengence racing have crappy cam specs anyway.
Not enough split.
Still waiting to hear back from in regards to my stroker andrew.
Cheers
What are the specs on the smaller cam? Knowing just the large cam specs doesn't help a lot.
@@completestreetperformance Fair enough :)
It really depends on the entire setup. My 408 runs a 235/247 on a 115 LSA with a 6 speed and aside from the idle (and fuel economy) it drives like the stock ls1 did. No issues in a parking lot or low speed cruising in 6th gear. And all that with a single plane intake manifold and SD tune.
I was going to go with the stage 4 cam for my 5th gen camaro ss but now I’m even more confused. What’s the best cam to get for a 6.2 daily driven Camaro SS?
None since your daily driving it you’re gonna have to maintain the valve springs or train can’t remember every 10k miles
I wanted daily driveability on my corvette c5 with small stall so I'm doing Tsp 224/228 with 600 lift 112lsa cam with prc ported 2.5 heads should make good power and still be great drive
Good cam
Good cam
That is not a small cam for daily driving!
Where did you get the blue protective for the car thanks ?
Wish you were in Central Florida Andrew, you would be my "go to" guy for sure.
So what are the specs of this cam?
I have 3200 miles on my Zo6 - would you mod it, or leave it stock?
What spec cam would you suggest for my 19 camaro ss? its an A10 if that changes anything. What I want is a nice choppy idle but also dont want a terrible daily drive since im at low speeds a lot in the city.
edit: The only mods I have is an axle back borla, no performance mods. i'm also planning on doing headers with the cam
but did u run cnc'd heads........ did you port and flow the heads.......... r u running hydrolic rollers and better valve springs........ u may have restricted ur output gains of the larger cam.
Just putting the smaller cam back in u are matching the og 243 heads
Do this vid again but try mixing the heads and Intake. Upgrade the throttle body to a 103mm... and twin tip sparks..... try hi rise intakes and Fast lsx or lsa intakes........... efi vrs twin 750 cfm carbs
227 234 111+2 tsp does awesome dd for me. I find its still a bit much for normal traffic even with a killer tune. Sometimes i wish i went smaller cam better heads. I still love the rush when wot even with 241's. 352hp 328tq mustang dyno.
Learn how to use the clutch I had no problem and never went through a clutch
I have a 5.3 w/flat top and 243 heads. I was offered this cam BTR 32430112. This will be a driver, and wanted a great sound. I will be using a sheet metal intake
Yes, that makes sense. Duration has the most effect for a street car where you still need low end unless you want to feel like your “rowing” the car with the shifter. Lots of lift helps at all rpm’s.
Subscribed because of this video. Very informative and that garage I know is squared away. Keep up the good content.
That should say the right cam VS the wrong cam
Does it buck with an automatic trans and I have the chevy SS and want to go bigger cam, I know you get allot of power from just a cam in the LS3 Plus the sound gives me a hard on. lol
Very good,a lot of recap but you made your point and it should make cam buyers think.
Can't count the "small" cams out. I had an 02 Camaro 6 speed with a Howard's ASA cam. 226 236 at .050 duration, .525 lift. Made 404 hp, 385 torque to the wheels. Only other mods was LT headers and CAI. Very little bucking mainly in 6th gear low speed. Sounded amazing and power everywhere. And that was a 200k mile engine!
Is this with stock cats?
Hey Andrew any good ideas I can do to my 6 banger Camaro 14 besides bolt ons I already have a cold air intake throttle control, throttle spacer and x pipe with straight pipe but I would like to see some big performance im wondering if a tune would show me that any advice?
@@completestreetperformance lol I love to much my V6 I cannot let it go but thank you.
@@barrientoskevin750 a tune will net you like 10 rwhp. If you want to make power on ur 6 banger, supercharger or small turbo on low boost.
@@codyisarat thank you ill look into a turbo I never knew that was possible I only seen procharger online
Ever heard of nitrous oxide? Google it.
You are so young and own a shop? What an underachiever I must be LOL great video and I can't help but notice you guys use motul