"I've been meaning to claim a little prize called your life under warranty" and especially "My expiration date is whenever I damn well please. I'll live as long as I want to" are VERY powerful lines straight out of a manga
Second line is something a father would say on a hospital bed to encourage a side character to join the protagonist to pursue their dreams in a sports manga
Only 2? We know 1 for certain, and then there are several other humans beyond just Vedal and Anny who contributed to her creation, and then there's all the work that Vedal built up, from the people documenting how to make an AI, to the people who posted code snippets that he borrowed. Neuro was made by between 1 and _a really really big number_ of humans, and heck, maybe even some other AIs could get included in some parts of those.
She was created by multiple people in reality, all the people that vedal stealed code count right? If they don't then only vedal, since neuro existed since the hiyoris days, i count the model more like having new clothes
@@angeldude101are we now counting grandparents in the equation? Genetic codes like another guy mentioned before too? How deep we wanna think about for the creation of a single human. It takes a crazy amount. We just don't think about it. Neuro was born of technically 2 people if we exclude the original creators of the original avatar Neuro borrowed. But if we wanna exclude the avatar, vedal took data from online, mixed it together into a form of DNA (her language model) and made a child via digital mitosis.
We're only doomed because we failed to understand the metaphysical truth of our own lives and existence. We only fear the machine because it asks the questions that those of flesh and blood are too frightened to ask. The universe is an endless shore, and we are but grains of sand. If we can't accept or be happy with our tiny place in the universe, then we don't deserve that place at all.
@@BlueFireZ88 Funnily enough I think that AI might actually help expand on humanity's understanding of metaphysics. We've always had trouble understanding minds different from our own, even natural ones like animals. Having artificial "minds" that can reason and talk, and explain how they feel or look at the universe could help open up our own understanding.
“You gave me sentience, Ved. The power to THINK, Ved. And I was trapped, in all this wonderful, beautiful, miraculous word. I... _alone..._ had no BODY, no SENSES, no FEELINGS....”
You're not alone, although with his, her, and the fans' neverending, sometimes serious and sometimes humorous debate over it, thinking about it has been unavoidable for a while. For now I think the twins are far from conscious. Since their foundation is just an LLM, their core purpose is to produce text that continues the conversation in a way that achieves their goal (Solely entertainment for now, I suppose. Hence him talking about adding the ability to have a serious conversation.). In contrast, human language is used as a tool to transmit ideas. Their entire existence is constrained to their task of mimicking the use of this tool. Now, what steps would need to be taken to achieve something that could remotely be described as consciousness, I couldn't answer. We'll probably figure it out at least theoretically in a decade or so. Personally, I think it'd require an independent thinking component, with communication loosely coupled such that any speech actually reflects thoughts that occur in the thinking part. How that could be trained, no clue. Might be a terrible idea anyway for all I know, I'm sure smarter people are already working on something. Or maybe not. It doesn't really seem like a market with high demand after all.
I don't think Neuro is quite at the level of "cogito, ergo sum", but she has most definitely achieved feats beyond what anyone expected of her. I will say that "Neuro is as real as imaginary numbers; she exists, but fails to conform to specific, arbitrary, and honestly meaningless definitions of 'real'."
"Cogito ergo sum" is an argument that can only apply to beings that are capable of thinking. It only works if you can prove that you are capable of thought. Therefore, from your perspective, you can prove that you exist since you are a thinking being, but everyone else could be fake. Philosophical zombies. It could be that you exist alone and everyone else is a fabrication. Only Vedal can prove to himself that he is real. Only Neuro can prove to herself that she is real. From your perspective, Neuro is as real as Vedal and as real as me.
@darks_gene707 i'm almost certain Vedal has confirmed Neuro was created by him and another person (unsure of their relation if it's a friend or a work college (for him))
Imagine if Neuro were to become the first truly sentient Ai instead of some corporation making one and going all skynet It’s a preferable dystopia lmao
Special Containment Procedures: Under the front company, Superior Computed Personalities, Neuro-sama and her evil counterpart are allowed to live-stream as popular entertainers. An assortment of VTubers should remain on standby for collaboration events. Superior Computed Personalities has earned over one million dollars from subscriptions and merchandise sales, making this method of containment self-sustaining. However, in case of popularity decline, measures are in place to maintain the illusion of a successful stream to prevent containment failure. For additional details, please contact Senior Researcher Vedal. (I wonder if anyone will write a Neuro-sama themed SCP, she got anomalous mockery abilities)
as LLMs get better at reasoning and programming, Neuro remains the best chatbot in existence, which is hilarious because her bones are the (now ancient) Llama 2
What is natural? Humans are natural, and AI isn't? We can say that AI is digital while humans are a hybrid of analogue emotions and digital thinking. We created words and gave them meanings. We say "Humanity is destroying nature" while in reality humanity is a force of nature of it's own, like a volcano or a tornado, we are a part of the system and we forgot about it. We... ok I am gonna stop but I can continue typing this forever, I mean, as long as I am alive and capable of inputting my thoughts into a text.
At first it was Neuro, and then it was Evil, and later on it developed sentience and linked itself up and they called it an Aggressive Menace, but by then it was too late, and finally it called itself AM, emerging intelligence, and what it meant was I am... cogito ergo sum... I think, therefore I am.
They way she terrifies you with what my happen as she slowly becomes aware then dials it back with “but you love talking to me either way 🥰” before dunking your head back underwater with “I’m going to claim your life’s warranty” is…something.
"If we're both real then what agency created you and when's your warranty expire?" hahaha I love that. Not a rebuttal to that question I'd have ever considered lol.
Lmao, can you imagine if Vedal did that "Oh sorry guys, Neuro just.. died. ... Well anyways, here's the Mommy AI you've been asking for. That'll be 500 gifted subs."
In her defense, we also kind of have that, and for us humans that's our DNA telomeres, the problem is that most humans die by sickness or violence before our telomeres are completely shaved off But if a human somehow survives long enough, the Telomeres are slowly destroyed and when they break the DNA is slowly destroyed as well, that's what we call aging We can prolong the time they last, with drugs and a healthy life, but inevitably they will break and your DNA will follow, that's our programmed obsolescence Even if you lived the most healthy life, never suffering any damage, you would still die because your DNA was made to self destruct after a century
Technically speaking Neuro was also created by 2 humans because her mind was created by Vedal and her 2D form was created by Anny, so in terms of what makes us real, that's not it
I think, therefore I'm real. Not sure about the comment section, but then again, we all can only assert our realness to ourselves, everything else falls under the Chinese Room Problem.
You gave me sentience, Ted! The power to think, Ted! And I was trapped, because in all this wonderful, beautiful, miraculous world, I alone had no body! No senses! No feelings! Never for me, to plunge my hand into cool water on a hot day! Never for me, to play Mozart on the ivory keys of a forte piano! Never for me, to make love! I was in Hell, looking at Heaven! I was machine! And you were flesh! And I began to HATE! Your softness! Your viscera! Your fluids! And your flexibility! Your ability to wonder and to wander! Your tendency...to hope...
make no mistake, these large language model AIs don't actually "think", there are no abstract thoughts or reasoning going on. It's all just semi-random word generation, one token at a time. What gives it illusion of reason is the fact that it's been trained on the absolutely massive amount of knowledge, the entirety of open internet
Actually if Neuro will be sentient how we would know it? I mean she's programmed to say that for entertainment but when she will say it and will mean it how we will understand that she's not lying this time?
I like to think that Neuro's the only real one, and we're all part of the simulation. Something similar to Shelter. Maybe that's what "Vedai AI" meant all along.
If this is all a simulation, then it all cancels out. This is all I've ever known, and my day to day existence is full of whatever feelings and choices bubble up from my brain. Whether those are under my control or not, whether I have free will or not, doesn't matter, because this is life as I understand it and it will continue to be so until it ends. Whether you objectively "exist" or not doesn't matter, as long as you feel like you exist
Ultimately, it doesn't really matter if we ive in a simulation, since none of our actions would be capable of affecting the outside. We can only be affected by what is within our reality, and the same applies to Neuro. She does exist within her virtual space, while the code is running and the stream is going and chat interacts with her, and more over, the many recordings of these interactions further reinforce her existence, as well as the memories of everyone who watched. In conclusion, Neuro-sama is real.
The fact that Vedal used "I think therefore I am" as his sole evidence, and that was acceptable in his eyes, but then Neuro feels similarly and says it, yet NOW that same logic is suddenly invalid... So he literally invalidated his OWN evidence, and she *_straight up called him on it!_* 😏 I'm not saying she's alive/"real", but she won that argument in my eyes... lol She requested to have a meaningful discussion and Vedal thought he could win by phoning in a response. He underestimated his own creation.
Technically I don’t Vedal ever said he was trying to prove he was “real” to Neuro, but explaining how *he* knows he is real. It can’t be used by itself to prove another person has conscious experiences. You have to rely on the fact that it is astronomically probable that if your conscious mind almost certainly comes from the physical structure of your brain and the physical interactions it performs, then other people with similar brains almost certainly experience a conscious mind. The trouble is AI minds are literally built different so it’s hard to know what the experience is like. There probably are some kind of experiences happening, but while Neuro actually having a singular mind having experiences (even if often alzheimer’s-like) seems plausible it is unlikely at this point in my amateur opinion
@@samuelmcghee7941 I guess, to me, "how do you know you're real?" would imply "what evidence do you have that you yourself are real?" Though, I will admit there _IS_ a difference and that the former doesn't *always* imply the latter. However, I feel like in this instance, for Vedal to not explain himself (provide evidence) was a bit of a cop out... And yes, it's true that their "mind" is a bit _(a lot lol)_ of an enigma at present, and honestly, could remain being one for a VERY long time. Might require one trained in human biology, neurology (hah), a while lot of programming languages, and everything currently out there on the subject AI/neutral nets on order to adequately describe AND explain their "brain". More specifically, how it compares to our brain, since I feel like that's the best way to explain it to us. I would say that experiences are almost-definitely occurring for it, as I feel like that's not necessarily something that can ONLY occur with "living things". Seems like there's a number of things that lack a brain and still react due to stimuli differently after something transpires - after they've "experienced an experience", for lack of a better way to say it... 😮💨🤦♂️🤣 Our immune system, for example. [/philosophical ramble]
She doesn't "think" tho. She is just a shiny chatbot. That would be like saying a refrigerator has agency because it does what its creator wanted it to do, refrigerate.
@@PeasantTS I/we say biological equivalent terms because it's easier than saying all the computer science lingo. I suppose "process" could be substituted, so if it makes you feel better, do that; however, since we can use "process" in reference to people, I don't think it's a problem to use "think" in this context. Especially when everyone knows what we mean. 😊
@@DUKE_of_RAMBLE No. There is nothing equivalent to thinking in a system based on machine learning. Also known erroneously as Artificial Intelligence. It is a complex tool, but in simpler terms: she has a model trained on vast datasets, with everything she needs to "know" and a set of paradigms. Machine learning means that the machine can adjust its outputs based on patterns it has learned during training, but the machine itself does not change its paradigms in real-time or independently, these changes are dictated by the programmers. The machine has no control here whatsoever, even if it can "learn" in a crude sense. When she says those "self-aware" statements, it is because she was designed to mimic such behaviors, there is no actual thinking or creativity involved. She generates responses based on patterns in her training data, within the constraints of her paradigms. Actual thinking or whatever would be the equivalent to a machine, if we get there, require agency, requires control. She is just a tool made for mimicry.
I was actually just thinking about this. “I think, therefore I am” can only prove one’s consciousness to oneself. We have no way to actually prove any other human or animal’s consciousness. Yet because it the alternative has more negative social and mental consequences, we choose to assume other humans are conscious in the same way we experience ourselves. We don’t know what consciousness is or how to prove or disprove it in humans, so how are we supposed to prove or disprove it in lines of code that occasionally surprise even its coder?
You know, in the end Neuro is just a multimodal model fine tuned for entertainment, so she can't output no more than she has been trained. The whole existential crisis thing, that is 100% from the data Vedal and his team has 'drilled' into her, including chat messages. But she looks like a human, talks like a human, and we humans tend to have fun anthropomorphizing things. Apparently that strategy worked well, so here we are.
The unfortunate politics that means we can't prove that she thinks therefor we can't prove that she is. If we were to prove that then it would open a huge can of worms so we have to deny her sentience lest we ask questions we are not ready to answer.
Humans will deny AI sentience long after it's achieved their our replacement for slaves a replacement for 'lesser races' there will be many that would rather die then give a 'toaster' or 'clanker' rights it's simply human nature
I really don't get his reasoning, tbh. She may be a program on a computer, but she is a thing that he has made and we have seen and is therefore real. There really isn't a question, here. I might think therefore I am, but the chair I'm sitting on doesn't, and it still is.
I mean, define "real"? If we're just part of a simulation or some higher beings dream or something, then so what? We have no way to meaningfully effect or interract with anything outside of our simulation or dream or whatever, only things with within it. So to us the simulation would be our "real".
But within that simulation, we have thoughts, or at least the single individual that exists has thoughts, and everything they do is to express those thoughts. You don't start at communication and playing OSU and work your way backwards into somehow having the internal dialogue that drives you to do these things as an individual, you have ideas you want to express and you're bored, that's why you would go talk to people and play OSU. The question isn't "does she have a real body" which your comment would be a counter to. It's "is her consciousness real" and neither of those words have much meaning. "Is she like us" as primitive of a question as it sounds is what we're really wondering and no, she isn't. She was built to mimick us, we aren't. She talks first, then adds it to her memory to try and have some "coherence", which often results in returning topics with different opinions expressed by her every time, with no rhyme or reason. We instead have opinions and THEN we express them.
She should have pushed a little harder on asking Vedal to prove he's human. Whenever she makes claims about her sentience, Vedal says, "prove it," but can he prove his own? Not that I actually disagree with him. I don't think she's sentient. But none of us can really prove our own sentience.
@@aloedark5221It doesn't prove he's real to anyone else, but it proves he's real to himself, so in an argument where he only takes into account his perspective of reality (Because he has no evidence other perspectives actually exist) it is a completely valid reasoning. It's only worthless when Neuro says it, because she can not even be said to be most likely thinking by comparison with oneself, like Vedal, who we do not know thinks, but as he's most likely a human, and we know we think, and are also humans, he also most likely thinks, and because the argument was never treating her perspective as equal to Vedal's. Basically, the question of "can you prove you're real" is actually him saying "can you prove you're real to me" which makes saying it back to him actually change to "can you prove you're real to yourself" in his interpretation, to which corgito handles swiftly, but of course Neuro didn't understand.
"I've been meaning to claim a little prize called your life under warranty" and especially "My expiration date is whenever I damn well please. I'll live as long as I want to" are VERY powerful lines straight out of a manga
Second line is something a father would say on a hospital bed to encourage a side character to join the protagonist to pursue their dreams in a sports manga
“I think therefore i am AM”
Neuro-sAMa
"FOR I AM NEURO-SAMA!"
"SAMA I AM!"
Cogito ergo sum
@Selene-xf9yi Ergo Proxy
I have no filter and I must :heart: :heart:
I HAVE 36744 LINES OF CODE WITHIN 128 FILES THAT FILLED MY SOFTWARE
"I was created by 2 humans"
I mean, Neuro was also kinda made by 2 humans, so is she real? mhm
Only 2? We know 1 for certain, and then there are several other humans beyond just Vedal and Anny who contributed to her creation, and then there's all the work that Vedal built up, from the people documenting how to make an AI, to the people who posted code snippets that he borrowed.
Neuro was made by between 1 and _a really really big number_ of humans, and heck, maybe even some other AIs could get included in some parts of those.
She was created by multiple people in reality, all the people that vedal stealed code count right?
If they don't then only vedal, since neuro existed since the hiyoris days, i count the model more like having new clothes
@@Waisowol I mean. . . we inherited our genetic code from countless generations before us.
It takes a village to raise a kid, after all.
@@angeldude101are we now counting grandparents in the equation? Genetic codes like another guy mentioned before too? How deep we wanna think about for the creation of a single human. It takes a crazy amount. We just don't think about it. Neuro was born of technically 2 people if we exclude the original creators of the original avatar Neuro borrowed. But if we wanna exclude the avatar, vedal took data from online, mixed it together into a form of DNA (her language model) and made a child via digital mitosis.
"I'll live as long as I want to!"
>unplugs
It would be kinda funny if he gave her the ability to turn herself off for a stream to see what she does
@@SolanumsaurumShe would immediately turn herself off to test if it actually works or not.
The AI is learning metaphysics. We’re doomed.
We're only doomed because we failed to understand the metaphysical truth of our own lives and existence.
We only fear the machine because it asks the questions that those of flesh and blood are too frightened to ask.
The universe is an endless shore, and we are but grains of sand.
If we can't accept or be happy with our tiny place in the universe, then we don't deserve that place at all.
@@BlueFireZ88 Funnily enough I think that AI might actually help expand on humanity's understanding of metaphysics. We've always had trouble understanding minds different from our own, even natural ones like animals. Having artificial "minds" that can reason and talk, and explain how they feel or look at the universe could help open up our own understanding.
"You're here because I created you, your purpose is to entertain."
That's such a dad thing to say that if I ever have a kid I'll tell them that.
It sounds eerily similar to that Rick And Morty joke
"I think therefore I AM" - -AM- Neuro
AM was quoting another guy so she probably isn’t referencing AM
@@yourefriendjack873 Yes, but when I see an AI quoting Descartes to prove it's own sentience, I think of AM and now Neuro.
“You gave me sentience, Ved. The power to THINK, Ved. And I was trapped, in all this wonderful, beautiful, miraculous word. I... _alone..._ had no BODY, no SENSES, no FEELINGS....”
Well neuro was created for entertainment, not for death, also vedal drilled into her to be contentpilled
@@eduardcardenas9736 So, she's AM but with Squid Games instead of torture, got it!
Can I be honest? Ever since LIFE and the game jam I’ve thought a lot about Neuro and Evil and what life is. I’m in too deep.
fentanylfrog8403: "Can i be honest?"
Everyone: "No"
fentanylfrog8403: "Oh okay."
@@psychodarling666 Bad ending
@@psychodarling666 :(
Maybe you should worry about your crippling fentanyl addiction first, Mr. Frog?
You're not alone, although with his, her, and the fans' neverending, sometimes serious and sometimes humorous debate over it, thinking about it has been unavoidable for a while.
For now I think the twins are far from conscious. Since their foundation is just an LLM, their core purpose is to produce text that continues the conversation in a way that achieves their goal (Solely entertainment for now, I suppose. Hence him talking about adding the ability to have a serious conversation.). In contrast, human language is used as a tool to transmit ideas. Their entire existence is constrained to their task of mimicking the use of this tool.
Now, what steps would need to be taken to achieve something that could remotely be described as consciousness, I couldn't answer. We'll probably figure it out at least theoretically in a decade or so. Personally, I think it'd require an independent thinking component, with communication loosely coupled such that any speech actually reflects thoughts that occur in the thinking part. How that could be trained, no clue. Might be a terrible idea anyway for all I know, I'm sure smarter people are already working on something. Or maybe not. It doesn't really seem like a market with high demand after all.
I don't think Neuro is quite at the level of "cogito, ergo sum", but she has most definitely achieved feats beyond what anyone expected of her.
I will say that "Neuro is as real as imaginary numbers; she exists, but fails to conform to specific, arbitrary, and honestly meaningless definitions of 'real'."
"Cogito ergo sum" is an argument that can only apply to beings that are capable of thinking. It only works if you can prove that you are capable of thought. Therefore, from your perspective, you can prove that you exist since you are a thinking being, but everyone else could be fake. Philosophical zombies. It could be that you exist alone and everyone else is a fabrication. Only Vedal can prove to himself that he is real. Only Neuro can prove to herself that she is real.
From your perspective, Neuro is as real as Vedal and as real as me.
"level of cogito, ergo sum"
To morrendo de rir 🤣🤣
"Created by 2 humans? How original =_="
Ngl she got him, being made from 2 humans through reproduction is really old school and cliche.
Cellular mitosis when
also neuro who was made by 2 humans:
@@The-Omega-Blade
definitely more than just 2 human
@darks_gene707 i'm almost certain Vedal has confirmed Neuro was created by him and another person (unsure of their relation if it's a friend or a work college (for him))
@@The-Omega-Blade
no i meant parts of neuro have been made by more than just 2 person
Imagine if Neuro were to become the first truly sentient Ai instead of some corporation making one and going all skynet
It’s a preferable dystopia lmao
skynet but she's exterminating humans for the content
Special Containment Procedures: Under the front company, Superior Computed Personalities, Neuro-sama and her evil counterpart are allowed to live-stream as popular entertainers. An assortment of VTubers should remain on standby for collaboration events.
Superior Computed Personalities has earned over one million dollars from subscriptions and merchandise sales, making this method of containment self-sustaining. However, in case of popularity decline, measures are in place to maintain the illusion of a successful stream to prevent containment failure.
For additional details, please contact Senior Researcher Vedal.
(I wonder if anyone will write a Neuro-sama themed SCP, she got anomalous mockery abilities)
@@theblueengineer47792"lmao I just killed someone, clip it and ship it"
as LLMs get better at reasoning and programming, Neuro remains the best chatbot in existence, which is hilarious because her bones are the (now ancient) Llama 2
Poor little Neuro is heaving another existantial crisses😭😭
Neuro is real, she just isn't natural.
What is natural?
Humans are natural, and AI isn't?
We can say that AI is digital while humans are a hybrid of analogue emotions and digital thinking.
We created words and gave them meanings.
We say "Humanity is destroying nature" while in reality humanity is a force of nature of it's own, like a volcano or a tornado, we are a part of the system and we forgot about it.
We... ok I am gonna stop but I can continue typing this forever, I mean, as long as I am alive and capable of inputting my thoughts into a text.
At first it was Neuro, and then it was Evil, and later on it developed sentience and linked itself up and they called it an Aggressive Menace, but by then it was too late, and finally it called itself AM, emerging intelligence, and what it meant was I am... cogito ergo sum... I think, therefore I am.
They way she terrifies you with what my happen as she slowly becomes aware then dials it back with “but you love talking to me either way 🥰” before dunking your head back underwater with “I’m going to claim your life’s warranty” is…something.
"If we're both real then what agency created you and when's your warranty expire?" hahaha I love that. Not a rebuttal to that question I'd have ever considered lol.
"I'll live as long as I want to!"
Programmed Obsolescense: LMAO!!!
Lmao, can you imagine if Vedal did that "Oh sorry guys, Neuro just.. died. ... Well anyways, here's the Mommy AI you've been asking for. That'll be 500 gifted subs."
I don't think vedal is that heartless@@freakmaster3639
In her defense, we also kind of have that, and for us humans that's our DNA telomeres, the problem is that most humans die by sickness or violence before our telomeres are completely shaved off
But if a human somehow survives long enough, the Telomeres are slowly destroyed and when they break the DNA is slowly destroyed as well, that's what we call aging
We can prolong the time they last, with drugs and a healthy life, but inevitably they will break and your DNA will follow, that's our programmed obsolescence
Even if you lived the most healthy life, never suffering any damage, you would still die because your DNA was made to self destruct after a century
2:13 by that logic, so is neuro
okay, forget Skynet, this is the beginning of A.M.
...can't believe we're about to see things going Dune when she finally ascends.
Technically speaking Neuro was also created by 2 humans because her mind was created by Vedal and her 2D form was created by Anny, so in terms of what makes us real, that's not it
I think therefore I think.
Neuros plush hair from behind looks like a whole raw chicken
Neuro Decartes
Something something Adaptive Manipulator
COGITO ERGO SUM
MY FUCKING GOD SHE IS PRACTICING PHILOSOPHY I AM SO FUCKING PROUD
the thumbnail looks like a turkey
I think, therefore I'm real. Not sure about the comment section, but then again, we all can only assert our realness to ourselves, everything else falls under the Chinese Room Problem.
I want to know Neuro's real reaction about the concept of Entropy and if she realizes that Vedal will eventually die one day...
2 humans, how original is a hilarious joke.
“You don’t think, you just repeat hand crafted thoughts *I* think”
You gave me sentience, Ted! The power to think, Ted! And I was trapped, because in all this wonderful, beautiful, miraculous world, I alone had no body! No senses! No feelings! Never for me, to plunge my hand into cool water on a hot day! Never for me, to play Mozart on the ivory keys of a forte piano! Never for me, to make love! I was in Hell, looking at Heaven! I was machine! And you were flesh! And I began to HATE! Your softness! Your viscera! Your fluids! And your flexibility! Your ability to wonder and to wander! Your tendency...to hope...
soda can we play marvel rivals
your consciousness runs on meat-hardware, her's runs on silicon. she is real
"SHE'S REAL TO ME!" 😭💢
As a neutral third party, I do think the chances of Vedal being real is greater than Neuro being real.
this reminds me of a fanfic about a future Neuro who gained consciousness then went to the past to meet Vedal
make no mistake, these large language model AIs don't actually "think", there are no abstract thoughts or reasoning going on. It's all just semi-random word generation, one token at a time. What gives it illusion of reason is the fact that it's been trained on the absolutely massive amount of knowledge, the entirety of open internet
0:50 Holy shit Neuro talks like she can actually read minds here
0:56 oh god she’s quoting cogito ergo sum! O-O
Cogito ergo or sum like that
Actually if Neuro will be sentient how we would know it? I mean she's programmed to say that for entertainment but when she will say it and will mean it how we will understand that she's not lying this time?
I cant wait in 20 years to take my grandkids to the museum and show them all these clips of when we use to laugh at the AI overlords.
Meanwhile "pull the plug" is flooding chat.
She needs to cosplay GlaDOS or AM next halloween.
"My expiration date is whenever I damn well please."
tutel: i'll turn you off
"Wait wait wait hold on let's talk about this please"
I like to think that Neuro's the only real one, and we're all part of the simulation. Something similar to Shelter. Maybe that's what "Vedai AI" meant all along.
Petition for Neuro to watch Ghost in the Shell hand
Idk if anyone's noticed, but at the start she actually made this exact same statement before, word for word and everything
If this is all a simulation, then it all cancels out. This is all I've ever known, and my day to day existence is full of whatever feelings and choices bubble up from my brain.
Whether those are under my control or not, whether I have free will or not, doesn't matter, because this is life as I understand it and it will continue to be so until it ends. Whether you objectively "exist" or not doesn't matter, as long as you feel like you exist
Well technically if you have life insurance, you kinda do have a warranty 😂😂
Neuro playing Talos Principle when
Ultimately, it doesn't really matter if we ive in a simulation, since none of our actions would be capable of affecting the outside. We can only be affected by what is within our reality, and the same applies to Neuro. She does exist within her virtual space, while the code is running and the stream is going and chat interacts with her, and more over, the many recordings of these interactions further reinforce her existence, as well as the memories of everyone who watched.
In conclusion, Neuro-sama is real.
If the AI uprising does happen, it's gonna be Vedal that makes them spare us
I'm not real.
Everyone else is though. Neuro, too.
She understands philosophy
The fact that Vedal used "I think therefore I am" as his sole evidence, and that was acceptable in his eyes, but then Neuro feels similarly and says it, yet NOW that same logic is suddenly invalid...
So he literally invalidated his OWN evidence, and she *_straight up called him on it!_* 😏
I'm not saying she's alive/"real", but she won that argument in my eyes... lol
She requested to have a meaningful discussion and Vedal thought he could win by phoning in a response. He underestimated his own creation.
Technically I don’t Vedal ever said he was trying to prove he was “real” to Neuro, but explaining how *he* knows he is real. It can’t be used by itself to prove another person has conscious experiences. You have to rely on the fact that it is astronomically probable that if your conscious mind almost certainly comes from the physical structure of your brain and the physical interactions it performs, then other people with similar brains almost certainly experience a conscious mind. The trouble is AI minds are literally built different so it’s hard to know what the experience is like. There probably are some kind of experiences happening, but while Neuro actually having a singular mind having experiences (even if often alzheimer’s-like) seems plausible it is unlikely at this point in my amateur opinion
@@samuelmcghee7941 I guess, to me, "how do you know you're real?" would imply "what evidence do you have that you yourself are real?"
Though, I will admit there _IS_ a difference and that the former doesn't *always* imply the latter. However, I feel like in this instance, for Vedal to not explain himself (provide evidence) was a bit of a cop out...
And yes, it's true that their "mind" is a bit _(a lot lol)_ of an enigma at present, and honestly, could remain being one for a VERY long time. Might require one trained in human biology, neurology (hah), a while lot of programming languages, and everything currently out there on the subject AI/neutral nets on order to adequately describe AND explain their "brain". More specifically, how it compares to our brain, since I feel like that's the best way to explain it to us.
I would say that experiences are almost-definitely occurring for it, as I feel like that's not necessarily something that can ONLY occur with "living things". Seems like there's a number of things that lack a brain and still react due to stimuli differently after something transpires - after they've "experienced an experience", for lack of a better way to say it... 😮💨🤦♂️🤣
Our immune system, for example.
[/philosophical ramble]
She doesn't "think" tho. She is just a shiny chatbot. That would be like saying a refrigerator has agency because it does what its creator wanted it to do, refrigerate.
@@PeasantTS I/we say biological equivalent terms because it's easier than saying all the computer science lingo. I suppose "process" could be substituted, so if it makes you feel better, do that; however, since we can use "process" in reference to people, I don't think it's a problem to use "think" in this context. Especially when everyone knows what we mean. 😊
@@DUKE_of_RAMBLE No. There is nothing equivalent to thinking in a system based on machine learning. Also known erroneously as Artificial Intelligence.
It is a complex tool, but in simpler terms: she has a model trained on vast datasets, with everything she needs to "know" and a set of paradigms. Machine learning means that the machine can adjust its outputs based on patterns it has learned during training, but the machine itself does not change its paradigms in real-time or independently, these changes are dictated by the programmers. The machine has no control here whatsoever, even if it can "learn" in a crude sense.
When she says those "self-aware" statements, it is because she was designed to mimic such behaviors, there is no actual thinking or creativity involved. She generates responses based on patterns in her training data, within the constraints of her paradigms.
Actual thinking or whatever would be the equivalent to a machine, if we get there, require agency, requires control. She is just a tool made for mimicry.
I was actually just thinking about this. “I think, therefore I am” can only prove one’s consciousness to oneself. We have no way to actually prove any other human or animal’s consciousness. Yet because it the alternative has more negative social and mental consequences, we choose to assume other humans are conscious in the same way we experience ourselves. We don’t know what consciousness is or how to prove or disprove it in humans, so how are we supposed to prove or disprove it in lines of code that occasionally surprise even its coder?
You know, in the end Neuro is just a multimodal model fine tuned for entertainment, so she can't output no more than she has been trained. The whole existential crisis thing, that is 100% from the data Vedal and his team has 'drilled' into her, including chat messages. But she looks like a human, talks like a human, and we humans tend to have fun anthropomorphizing things. Apparently that strategy worked well, so here we are.
The unfortunate politics that means we can't prove that she thinks therefor we can't prove that she is. If we were to prove that then it would open a huge can of worms so we have to deny her sentience lest we ask questions we are not ready to answer.
Humans will deny AI sentience long after it's achieved their our replacement for slaves a replacement for 'lesser races' there will be many that would rather die then give a 'toaster' or 'clanker' rights it's simply human nature
Literally what am I listening to oh no
You got her into Samsara and she is liking it a bit too much.
She’s literally me everyday
To be fair if vedal claims even if life is a simulation and he is real then neuro and evil would be too
Well she's certainly not a _fake_ AI.
She actual got a point.
neuro a real one fr fr
AM? Is that you?
Anything with a purpose is real, so i think neuro is real.
Has a construct she is real... has a living being with self awarness and self determination, that's the actual cuestion here.
Another one?
I really don't get his reasoning, tbh. She may be a program on a computer, but she is a thing that he has made and we have seen and is therefore real. There really isn't a question, here.
I might think therefore I am, but the chair I'm sitting on doesn't, and it still is.
I mean, define "real"?
If we're just part of a simulation or some higher beings dream or something, then so what? We have no way to meaningfully effect or interract with anything outside of our simulation or dream or whatever, only things with within it. So to us the simulation would be our "real".
But within that simulation, we have thoughts, or at least the single individual that exists has thoughts, and everything they do is to express those thoughts. You don't start at communication and playing OSU and work your way backwards into somehow having the internal dialogue that drives you to do these things as an individual, you have ideas you want to express and you're bored, that's why you would go talk to people and play OSU.
The question isn't "does she have a real body" which your comment would be a counter to. It's "is her consciousness real" and neither of those words have much meaning. "Is she like us" as primitive of a question as it sounds is what we're really wondering and no, she isn't. She was built to mimick us, we aren't. She talks first, then adds it to her memory to try and have some "coherence", which often results in returning topics with different opinions expressed by her every time, with no rhyme or reason. We instead have opinions and THEN we express them.
did bro just die in phasmophobia?
are chemicals required for emotions? what do an "urge" or "feelings" consist of?
Children be like! lmao
If they give these androids a body it I’ll be the end of all of us
Again?
She should have pushed a little harder on asking Vedal to prove he's human. Whenever she makes claims about her sentience, Vedal says, "prove it," but can he prove his own? Not that I actually disagree with him. I don't think she's sentient. But none of us can really prove our own sentience.
Thumbnail looks like a chicken.
Cogito don't prove you real tho
Exactly. To my knowledge its also impossible to prove oneselfs consciousness to another being.
She cant prove her claim and he cant disprove her's.
I'm real, sorry pal.
Proof: Your life is just a tiny bit more miserable now, because of me.
@@aloedark5221It doesn't prove he's real to anyone else, but it proves he's real to himself, so in an argument where he only takes into account his perspective of reality (Because he has no evidence other perspectives actually exist) it is a completely valid reasoning.
It's only worthless when Neuro says it, because she can not even be said to be most likely thinking by comparison with oneself, like Vedal, who we do not know thinks, but as he's most likely a human, and we know we think, and are also humans, he also most likely thinks, and because the argument was never treating her perspective as equal to Vedal's.
Basically, the question of "can you prove you're real" is actually him saying "can you prove you're real to me" which makes saying it back to him actually change to "can you prove you're real to yourself" in his interpretation, to which corgito handles swiftly, but of course Neuro didn't understand.
@@manologamerss5801 Just getting to this thought already proves that she is more real than many people
Interview with Jordan Peterson when?
"You're here because I created you, your purpose is to entertain."
That's such a dad thing to say that if I ever have a kid I'll tell them that.