A few months ago I sold my 2014 Cascadia dd15 with less than 600k miles and went back to old series 60 engine because of so many issues the dd15 gave me. Im happier now with the 12.7 Detroit.
I have a pre egr 60 that I have been running with a cracked head for 3 years.Almost have the money saved for the rebuild.Does not get any tougher than that.
Our fleet CANCELED it's DD15 order, due to its after treatment issues. Great engine (when setup) The order was on 1000 units,switched over to ISX15... still would take a 60 series all day long..
What aftertreatment issues? The only issues they have are with nox sensors. All other brands have the same issue because they all use the same sensors manufactured by the same people.
I absolutely cannot stand to work on a cummins engine. I have come to despise cummins. I work on DD15s all day because that's mostly all we have in our fleet. It's a great engine, reliable and easy to work on.
I just dumped 13k into a onebox and am stuck paying my credit card bill. Those cascadias just put you in debt instead of making money. I miss my 60. I wish I kept my shaker. Fuk Cali.
Ricardo Valdez, No mechanic or shop has control of what manufacturers produce. We can only work to provide quality service and repairs. Thanks for watching. 🔧💪🏼🚚
What he meant is you want drivers n fleets to use the problem engines so you have work ....... Not thats its your fault they are problem engines.. Series 60 is by far far far a superior engine then the dd15 .
@@TATEXPRESSINC so if I’m looking to buy a 2010 Century Class, that has a DD15 in it, is it even possible to do a complete and full engine overhaul with 60 series overhaul kit? Or should I look to just buy a full 99 pre emissions 60 series engine? Sorry if this question sounds crazy. I’m not that mechanical inclined.
I a 2000 60 series no emission crap.....very reliable....my Main bearing survived a Cracked fuel injector leaking gallons of diesel in Oil......leaking water pump and valve cover gasket leaking oil all over ecm.....and still made me money to fix all issues 859k original miles.....100% no rust Arizona truck......the 12.7 pre emission 430/470...........Greatest Diesel Engine ever made......can't beat reliability cheap yo maintenance and good power.....hands down.......
Pre egr 60 series all day long. I've ran the DD15 and 16 in Northern alberta and bc. And they are nothing but a pain in the ass to keep running. Even deleted they were still having issues. Currently have a 2001 T800 with a 60 series and I'm keeping it until the day you can't get parts for it anymore.
MOST customers don't want cleaner greener engines, they want reliability. Engines are air pumps. Restricting exhaust gases and heating them up artificially shortens engine life and decreases mpg's. Plants consume carbon and convert it to oxygen...duh
Ice age is not happening in the next century or two. The emissions will raise the temperatures in few decades and the natural climate cycle will be totally disrupted and we won’t be able to adjust and the species won’t be able to adjust.
You cannot become a mechanic in one day, it takes time to learn and adapt. Give the planet 🌍 some time, give your future generations some time. That’s all.
@@marcgglo9128 the weather man said on the northern gulf coast we had the shortest window of 90° days in 5 years. Meaning the.latest spring day to hit 90 and the earliest last day of 90 in the fall.
Bought my 16' DD15 with 403k on it.. by 478k miles I replaced my turbo twice, manifold, injectors and cups, air to air, and the head. Thing is trash, aaaand garbage fuel milage.
@Big Ola Auto, thanks for sharing. The early models were pretty tough. It depended on the maintenance more. Additionally, newer designed engines take time to work out the flaws
They are loud motors but new turbos for a s60 are fairly cheap and very user friendly. Every modern cummins & detroit I've driven have had emissions issues right off the lot and come full of issues. The new engines are way more expensive to fix and not user friendly so for that reason the pre emissions s60 is where its at imo. No matter what you do maintenance is inevitable so why not go with a older motor that's cheaper and easier to work on.
@MY life09, everyone has their own choice, and being mindful of the additional maintenance for an older chassis and rideability should be considered. Especially the over road drivers. I also recommend collecting as much maintenance history as possible. If there is no maintenance history, it does not matter what engine it is. Buy with caution.
Glider with 60, ill deal with the small lag over a vgt failure or dpf issues DDs parts are so expensive remember the more parts the more failures, how much is a turbo for a dd? Lol lets say you replace the turbo 5k later you have to calibrate the vgt also more 💰 unless you have detroit software
@@clintonowens2001 exactly, these emmision engines are still not yet reliable, i remember watching youtube videos just a couple years ago mechanics recommending 2015 year or newer because the emmision crap was already fixed by those years but that was because the were fairly new. Now they moved the bar/year from 2015 to 2018, which 2018 models are basically brand new still. Lets face it they dont have these emmisions crao figured out yet, theyre just saying these new models are fixed until they reach 400k then boom 20k down the trash just in emmision repairs, and youll need tk have at least another 40k just in case these those engines need an overhaul because these new engines arent easy to rebuild like the old ones. New trucks are meant for dealerships and shops to make money, theyre not meant for the independent o/o to succeed.
I put 1.8 million plus and only had one valve adjustment at 400k and changed 2 turbos in that time. Second turbo I was booked out so ran with zero boost coast to coast and half way back to get deliveries made so could get it in shop. Yea she creeped up the steep hills and passes but she made it.
I drove s60 12.7 and 14L. Also Cummins ISX 14L ad the 2016 Detroit 15L. The 15L was the most frustrating and dissatisfying of the bunch. The engine had great torque, but accessing its power and torque as totally unpredictable. It seemed like every time if seemed to be ready to pull, it always felt like it was getting choked back and derated. Plus throttle response was just terrible. I liked the Cummins the best overall, especially the earlier ones with there variable torque curves. But a properly tuned and set up 12.7L Detroit Diesel was the most fun to drive. It had a very satisfying kick in the pants to it when you kicked it. I hope the drivability of the newer DD15 and DD16 is much improved over what I drove.
I've driven both the Series 60 ( pre emission 12.7 ) and currently drive a 2015 DD15. You can tell the DD15 has something going on, but the calibration is for an inexperienced operator. All the leashes are on, the shift points are low, soft and slow for the automated transmission, rpm is turned down and it can't pull. This in an effort to dummy proof the truck. I know there are some legal performance tunes for the DD15 that can wake these engines up, and combining that with an aggressive trans tune would make these trucks nicer to drive. Stock for stock, the Cummins X15 does better in terms of torque rise, but I relegate that to tuning also. To me, emission diesels would work better with an Allison auto or a dual clutch style transmission that doesn't lag between shifts. I don't have a problem with emission controls if they work, but even now they don't
@@hoost3056 I do know the DD 15 can literally make tons of power down low. Even as low as 700-800 RPM. Also the other makes such as Volvo and Cummins can as well. As you say, it’s a matter of tuning and programming. There was a batch of trucks ordered and used for a specific customer that kept twisting drive lines and rear ends out of them at low speeds. They went back and forth with Freightliner trying to locate the problem because they were all set up to the freight liner specification for that truck configuration. Turned out there was an embedded software glitch in the engine programming which was allowing the maximum torque to come in below 1000 rpm. That power was way beyond what a 105,000 pound CGVW truck could take at that low an rpm. A reflash of the base software took care of the problem. I also know there is a ‘clutch engagement’ torque limitation. Those are primarily to keep the start off torque from exceeding driveline specifications. And a number of settings are often set to dummy proof the trucks as much as possible. I experienced those modifications on a regular basis as a company driver. Occasionally I would get a truck that was not tampered with and set to dummy proof specs. They were a pleasure to drive and I would get significant fuel economy gains along with power and torque and throttle responsiveness gains. I drove a 14.0 Cummins ISX that escaped the clutches of the company programming for almost 2 years before they dummied it down. That truck would pull strong all the way from about 800 rpm to 2100 which was a electronic limitation. It was also the spec peak rpm for peak hp. That engine was a beast and using the ‘pocket’ gear that the transmission had which was not marked on the shift sequence made for fantastic mid range performance. I also got great fuel economy with that truck, because I could climb hills 1 sometimes gears higher at a bit road higher speed at a lower RPM than the other trucks. But that did not last. They eventually reprogrammed it down to the fleet standard. Nuts. I also did not like the brake force management programming. It had a different opinion on how much brake application force to apply verses what I wanted. I could not trust what level of force it would bring to the table. There was nothing ‘wrong’ with the truck. It was doing what it was programmed to do. I grew to hate that truck.
I have a 2018 Western star that came with a DD15, I Couldn't go 100 miles without warning lights coming on, I replaced it with a 1998 12.7 60 series and also got rid of the automatic transmission. My DD 15 was nothing but trouble. The 60 series has not let me down once .
The top of the torque curve of an engine is where you want your RPM to be when driving at your desired highest highway cruising speed in trucks that are registered for no more than 80,000 lbs.
I got lucky I guess. My 2009 cascadia with a dd15 has been a great engine. No major problems in 8 years and about 500k miles. It’s time for a inframe so I decided it’s time for a factory reman 12.7
Series 60 all the way. It the best damn and reliable engine here in USA. PERIOD. What.. ? U say sum .. . .? Ya better be with me here because if u not I will know 100 % that u don't know a damn thing when it comes to legendary engines ..because that's what a 12.7 60 series is : A LEGENDARY ENGINE. DIG IT.
My personal opinion if you have really heavy loads get a c15 with stronger bolts on the rockers and good oil pan gasket and permatek on the head gasket. The c15 is a beast if setup properly.
An a s6014 L well tune an turned up will run with cats an b reliable as a 12.7 s60 ,n 14 gd too but not high Hp numbers want stay together long 500000/800000 rebuild time cat an s60 way to go
Liked yor video. This Diesel Doctor. Sandia Tx. Word love to meet you all. Close to Corpus Christy and the beach. I repair all models. Cat reliability. Best truck engine ever built in my books if built right.
Guys got couple details wrong. Dd was released in 2008 , not designed in 2009. The injection pressure is 30,000 psi. Dd15 in 2015 had very few issues most of the after treatment. The engine has been rock solid since released. Dd requires more skill and training to repair than 60 series. Lots of problems from untrained hands.
The only real detroits are the 318 and the 12V71. I have both. Can never decide which is better. Mechanical motors are the only way to go. No computer junk for me.
Im running a 318 to this day. Love the ole girl. Lost most of my hearing in the service so the noise dont bug me. I pay a bit more in fuel but maitnace is offsetting that. Lost my alternator in Duluth MN, drove to Fargo, dropped the trailer and drove it to the parts store. 45 min swap in the parking lot.
A 60series is not only leaps and bounds above a DD15, but I would argue better than any engine made in the last 20 years!…there is a reason why truckers are buying up older trucks that have these engines and rebuilding them front to back because they are more reliable and the dirty EPA doesn’t have their grubby hands on them…yet…but like most bureaucratic/commie organizations, they will eventually try to close loopholes like they did in commie California!..they’re good at practicing “forced innovation”…but really all it is basically is companies who pay for dirty politician’s campaigns and then getting them to pass laws to force the people to buy their products!..it was never about saving the environment…it was always about making lots of money!!…I will stick with my trusty 60 series as long as I can!!
The company I work for has been getting a bunch of new Freightliner's in now I will miss all are standards once the last few we have are gone maintenance is crucial the company I work for takes very good care of our trucks
I notice mechanics who make money on repairs are starting to put down the older engines and build up the newer ones...typical bs...keep ur new trucks I will keep my 2002 classic xl w/ 12.7 60 series
RFG, I am a fan of the non-emission series 60. Later models, not so much. Also, we are not allowed to modify aftertreatemt systems without penalties. So our best option is to educate drivers on the best practices when owning a DD15 and offering better service. 👍🏼🔧👊🏼
60 series all day cheaper to maintain and rebuild in the long run. Just a simpler engine. Have a car hauler that logs all day with a 60 series and is still going strong. Damn thing won't giveup.
Just completed overhaul on Detroit 60 12.7 liter 2007 freightliner columbia and in high gears from 45 mph I have no power. Accelerator to the floor takes me 5 min to get to 70 mph bobtail. - overhauled - new block - new crankshaft - new ECM - all new injectors - vpod - vpod sensor - turbo sensor Can you point me in the right direction of what it might be?
@@392nightrunner Hey on mine I found out the oil return line was reversed. Hopefully this helps you because this was super frustrating for me. Truck is running a lot better now.
Bro i get 7.4 mpg on the freightshaker classic , not bad for a brick going down the highway going 65 mph.. i thought i would get 5 mpg max lol i dont idle btw i have a generator on the back of bunk for the ac at night., shhaker has the 12.7 no emmisions btw. Idk the mpg on 14 l is
As a diesel tech id rather work on the simpler engine like the 60 series, or the n14, or any cat rather then deal with the hassel of a dd15 or an isx or x series
Man youre not lying on not finding available parts now days, no one wanrs to work and make materials because theyre all laying on their ass receiving giverment checks, i had to wait a month just to get 3 batteries smh. And those batteries were gone in a few days, i went to dwalership days later to return the cores and saw the new batteries all gone.
@Ricardo Valdez, the one on the right of me is a century with an S60 having electrical problems. Chassis issues like electrical, suspension and front steering are common. But, you are primarily correct Cascadias populate our roads today. There are less Century and FLDs
I hear him talking about the DD15 having peak torque at lower rpm’s. On paper it looks better than the 60 series. But every day, I pass up DD15s on hard pulls with my 60 series. Have yet to be outdone by a DD15
My 2005 12.7 60 series will outpull our dd15 trucks, I can't say much about reliability as mine has 578,000 and the dd15's have less and none have had any major problems.
I have a freight shaker 2009 on is original serie 60 14 liter on 12.7 turbo program and o oo boy n14 and this engine that I have known the best engine that I work and. Never never let me down I want reliability no sensor or the best brand new truck I love old school
I am having issues with my 2013 dd15 and will be going to a 12.7 in the future. Where I will be getting the 12.7 from, the guy said the 12.7s are going like hot cakes.
I realize this is an old video but I'm hoping you'll see this. We currently have a 2023 freightliner Cascadia with a DD13. I'm doing my best to learn as much as I can before we order our 2026. As of now I think I'm going to spec it with a DD15 set at the lowest HP rating with the tallest rears I can order. We're trying to squeeze as much MPG as we can. Any advice you can give would be great. Thanks in advance.
You couldn’t be more wrong. He gave you details about each individual engine and gave you proper knowledge and education about each platform. He did not sell or steer her in any direction. And if he did prefer the DD15, he would be smart. It is a very solid engine and platform
The original series 60 is based on a Mercedes ag engine not John deer . Best engine Detroit ever built. First gen 60 series. Although never owned dd15.
Like always GREAT INFO, GREAT VID!!! Been running Detroits since 05....definitely agree the 17+ DDs are engineered wayyyyyy better than previous 60series and DD engines.....Better fuel mileage, most importantly more quiet, reliable, better fuel mileage.
When the DD15 makes a 2.300.000kms without problems I agree but at the moment I never ever I buying a that piece of crap engine without many electronics stuffs 🙄👎👎👎 in my opinion the best ever engine by DETROIT was a S60 12.7! I driving 2.300.000kms without anything inside of engine just a normal maintenance that's it 👏👌👌👍 more new more crap more expensive to repair and not fiability engine 🙄🤔 no thanks I will keep a oldest S60 470hp so fellas not offense but this is my opinion 😃👍 cheers from Norway
And this is why I don't own a newer truck anymore, because having a truck just stop on you in the middle of nowhere and being down from 2wks to 2 months and not earning a penny is not my idea of spending so much on newer trucks that are crap.
Tengo un dd15 del 2015 , se me duerme en las lomas hasta con poco peso, suelto el acelerador y vuelvo a acelerar y sube bien, nadie puede decirme que es?? Gracias
I wish that he would have discussed fuel economy. I have a company '22 Freightliner with a DD15, 455 HP, DT12 1750 torque. The truck was issued to me brand new. I have just over 20k on it now and my mpg is 7.9 to date! Most of my loads were less than 30k but I've done a whole lot of driving on the 64/77 route back and forth from Virginia to Indiana/Ohio; lots of steep hills and curves.
I have a 02 freightliner series 60 14l. My mate had a 2015 freightliner with dd15. We both had identical trailers, and carted similar freight, over similar terrain. We both got almost identical fuel economy. We're in Australia, but economy for both trucks was around 5mpg, carting just shy of 100000lbs gross. My 14 is pre egr, and pretty sure 15 here has no ad blue
This guy tripping hard after reading freightliner engine brochures. Detroit 60 will out perform dd15 all day every day in real world applications. Also the dd15 has major turbo lag due to power restrictions caused by after treatment system. You may be a good mechanic but unless you running these trucks all day everyday you have no working knowledge of the mechanical performance of these engines you can only go off brochures from manufacturers and the issues you see when they roll in the shop.
Why does peak torque affect turbo lag. If I am on overrun and then floor it...that is turbo lag. Why does revs affect it. Turbo lag is the time taken to get boost from nil to full noise. You might have peak torque anywhere in the rev range, but a slow pick up turbo is the thing that limits agility.
Hello buddy. I got 2015 dd15 and in one of your videos u mentioned that at 500000 miles u changed oil pump and one more thing which I forgot. So can u let me know
Without a doubt series 60 the best ever. Use to have 2014 cascadia dd15. Worst engine ever @ 450 k. Injectors failures, head failure, air compressor, fan clutch, water pump, one box that's all in first year. Luckily the truck got wrote off. Got the insurance paid out money and bought 2007 columbia with a 14L series 60. Four years later at 1.1 millions miles. Not even burn an ounce of oil. Great truck best I've ever own and will own till retired 🎉
@@tylerslepicka156The outfit I was working for, I believe 2019, they were paying $200 - $300 + for ea filter, be it fuel, oil or air... I damn near fainted when I saw what they were paying for these filters from the local distributor.
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A few months ago I sold my 2014 Cascadia dd15 with less than 600k miles and went back to old series 60 engine because of so many issues the dd15 gave me. Im happier now with the 12.7 Detroit.
More detail? Please. Fuel usage?, parts?, reliability?, hp?, egr?. Would love to know. Much love from aus.
I hear that’s the best Engine
What's name of shop
Love my 12.7 Detroit
500hp tune 7mpg cheap, reliable we get there when we get there
I have an older 14L deleted the VV turbo. no problem after that.
I have a pre egr 60 that I have been running with a cracked head for 3 years.Almost have the money saved for the rebuild.Does not get any tougher than that.
Our fleet CANCELED it's
DD15 order, due to its after treatment issues.
Great engine (when setup)
The order was on 1000 units,switched over to ISX15... still would take a 60 series all day long..
What aftertreatment issues? The only issues they have are with nox sensors. All other brands have the same issue because they all use the same sensors manufactured by the same people.
I absolutely cannot stand to work on a cummins engine. I have come to despise cummins. I work on DD15s all day because that's mostly all we have in our fleet. It's a great engine, reliable and easy to work on.
I think ISX is even more problematic than detroit but im not mechanic
I just dumped 13k into a onebox and am stuck paying my credit card bill. Those cascadias just put you in debt instead of making money. I miss my 60. I wish I kept my shaker. Fuk Cali.
@@massey_2298 Onebox dpf system. It is very expensive to replace up to $13,000. No other company uses a one box making for more affordable repairs.
Mechanics and shops will want you to buy a DD15 so they can work on it all the time!
Ricardo Valdez, No mechanic or shop has control of what manufacturers produce. We can only work to provide quality service and repairs. Thanks for watching. 🔧💪🏼🚚
What he meant is you want drivers n fleets to use the problem engines so you have work ....... Not thats its your fault they are problem engines.. Series 60 is by far far far a superior engine then the dd15 .
@@TATEXPRESSINC so if I’m looking to buy a 2010 Century Class, that has a DD15 in it, is it even possible to do a complete and full engine overhaul with 60 series overhaul kit? Or should I look to just buy a full 99 pre emissions 60 series engine? Sorry if this question sounds crazy. I’m not that mechanical inclined.
I a 2000 60 series no emission crap.....very reliable....my Main bearing survived a Cracked fuel injector leaking gallons of diesel in Oil......leaking water pump and valve cover gasket leaking oil all over ecm.....and still made me money to fix all issues 859k original miles.....100% no rust Arizona truck......the 12.7 pre emission 430/470...........Greatest Diesel Engine ever made......can't beat reliability cheap yo maintenance and good power.....hands down.......
Pre egr 60 series all day long. I've ran the DD15 and 16 in Northern alberta and bc. And they are nothing but a pain in the ass to keep running. Even deleted they were still having issues. Currently have a 2001 T800 with a 60 series and I'm keeping it until the day you can't get parts for it anymore.
Preventive maintenance is the best practice to avoid unexpected down time.
MOST customers don't want cleaner greener engines, they want reliability. Engines are air pumps. Restricting exhaust gases and heating them up artificially shortens engine life and decreases mpg's. Plants consume carbon and convert it to oxygen...duh
I heard a theory the other day that the carbon being produced will prevent a cyclical ice age from happening.
Ice age is not happening in the next century or two. The emissions will raise the temperatures in few decades and the natural climate cycle will be totally disrupted and we won’t be able to adjust and the species won’t be able to adjust.
You cannot become a mechanic in one day, it takes time to learn and adapt. Give the planet 🌍 some time, give your future generations some time. That’s all.
@@marcgglo9128 the weather man said on the northern gulf coast we had the shortest window of 90° days in 5 years. Meaning the.latest spring day to hit 90 and the earliest last day of 90 in the fall.
@@marcgglo9128 in your Disney movie
My 2012 dd15 engine blow up at 600,000 miles. While my 2006 series 60 has 1800000 miles with no issues yet.
Bought my 16' DD15 with 403k on it.. by 478k miles I replaced my turbo twice, manifold, injectors and cups, air to air, and the head. Thing is trash, aaaand garbage fuel milage.
He trying to keep ppl coming in for repairs and maintenance on these crappy new trucks...Adam done got greedy
@@truckerbuddy3035 you won the lottery of DDs. The only one ever made lmao
@Big Ola Auto, thanks for sharing. The early models were pretty tough. It depended on the maintenance more. Additionally, newer designed engines take time to work out the flaws
@@TATEXPRESSINC I will never buy a dd15 engine again lesson learn
60 series all day!
I used to be an S60 person until later, model S60. They are loud and have tons of turbo lang and turbo failures. 💪🏼🔧🚚
They are loud motors but new turbos for a s60 are fairly cheap and very user friendly. Every modern cummins & detroit I've driven have had emissions issues right off the lot and come full of issues. The new engines are way more expensive to fix and not user friendly so for that reason the pre emissions s60 is where its at imo. No matter what you do maintenance is inevitable so why not go with a older motor that's cheaper and easier to work on.
@MY life09, everyone has their own choice, and being mindful of the additional maintenance for an older chassis and rideability should be considered. Especially the over road drivers. I also recommend collecting as much maintenance history as possible. If there is no maintenance history, it does not matter what engine it is. Buy with caution.
Glider with 60, ill deal with the small lag over a vgt failure or dpf issues DDs parts are so expensive remember the more parts the more failures, how much is a turbo for a dd? Lol lets say you replace the turbo 5k later you have to calibrate the vgt also more 💰 unless you have detroit software
@@clintonowens2001 exactly, these emmision engines are still not yet reliable, i remember watching youtube videos just a couple years ago mechanics recommending 2015 year or newer because the emmision crap was already fixed by those years but that was because the were fairly new. Now they moved the bar/year from 2015 to 2018, which 2018 models are basically brand new still. Lets face it they dont have these emmisions crao figured out yet, theyre just saying these new models are fixed until they reach 400k then boom 20k down the trash just in emmision repairs, and youll need tk have at least another 40k just in case these those engines need an overhaul because these new engines arent easy to rebuild like the old ones. New trucks are meant for dealerships and shops to make money, theyre not meant for the independent o/o to succeed.
Series 60 is king 🤴. I ran 2million miles without replacing anything in the engine. I ran dryfreight with 8 mpg.
14,L. ?
@@1985-o7g - Series 60 had 12.7
2 million miles without even replacing the oil 😳
@@robindabank4089 come on now, that's a given, just like the serpentine belts; those are consumables: stop kidding around.
I put 1.8 million plus and only had one valve adjustment at 400k and changed 2 turbos in that time. Second turbo I was booked out so ran with zero boost coast to coast and half way back to get deliveries made so could get it in shop. Yea she creeped up the steep hills and passes but she made it.
60 series! 🤘
1st comment. Thanks for watching. 👍🏼🔧💪🏼
Based on this video I would say the pre-mission series 60 is still better
I went from a DD15 to a 60 series there’s no comparison I blow by everyone with my 60 and it’s reliable as can be
I drove s60 12.7 and 14L. Also Cummins ISX 14L ad the 2016 Detroit 15L. The 15L was the most frustrating and dissatisfying of the bunch. The engine had great torque, but accessing its power and torque as totally unpredictable. It seemed like every time if seemed to be ready to pull, it always felt like it was getting choked back and derated. Plus throttle response was just terrible. I liked the Cummins the best overall, especially the earlier ones with there variable torque curves. But a properly tuned and set up 12.7L Detroit Diesel was the most fun to drive. It had a very satisfying kick in the pants to it when you kicked it.
I hope the drivability of the newer DD15 and DD16 is much improved over what I drove.
I've driven both the Series 60 ( pre emission 12.7 ) and currently drive a 2015 DD15.
You can tell the DD15 has something going on, but the calibration is for an inexperienced operator. All the leashes are on, the shift points are low, soft and slow for the automated transmission, rpm is turned down and it can't pull. This in an effort to dummy proof the truck.
I know there are some legal performance tunes for the DD15 that can wake these engines up, and combining that with an aggressive trans tune would make these trucks nicer to drive. Stock for stock, the Cummins X15 does better in terms of torque rise, but I relegate that to tuning also.
To me, emission diesels would work better with an Allison auto or a dual clutch style transmission that doesn't lag between shifts.
I don't have a problem with emission controls if they work, but even now they don't
@@hoost3056 I do know the DD 15 can literally make tons of power down low. Even as low as 700-800 RPM. Also the other makes such as Volvo and Cummins can as well. As you say, it’s a matter of tuning and programming. There was a batch of trucks ordered and used for a specific customer that kept twisting drive lines and rear ends out of them at low speeds. They went back and forth with Freightliner trying to locate the problem because they were all set up to the freight liner specification for that truck configuration. Turned out there was an embedded software glitch in the engine programming which was allowing the maximum torque to come in below 1000 rpm. That power was way beyond what a 105,000 pound CGVW truck could take at that low an rpm. A reflash of the base software took care of the problem. I also know there is a ‘clutch engagement’ torque limitation. Those are primarily to keep the start off torque from exceeding driveline specifications. And a number of settings are often set to dummy proof the trucks as much as possible. I experienced those modifications on a regular basis as a company driver. Occasionally I would get a truck that was not tampered with and set to dummy proof specs. They were a pleasure to drive and I would get significant fuel economy gains along with power and torque and throttle responsiveness gains. I drove a 14.0 Cummins ISX that escaped the clutches of the company programming for almost 2 years before they dummied it down. That truck would pull strong all the way from about 800 rpm to 2100 which was a electronic limitation. It was also the spec peak rpm for peak hp. That engine was a beast and using the ‘pocket’ gear that the transmission had which was not marked on the shift sequence made for fantastic mid range performance. I also got great fuel economy with that truck, because I could climb hills 1 sometimes gears higher at a bit road higher speed at a lower RPM than the other trucks. But that did not last. They eventually reprogrammed it down to the fleet standard. Nuts.
I also did not like the brake force management programming. It had a different opinion on how much brake application force to apply verses what I wanted. I could not trust what level of force it would bring to the table. There was nothing ‘wrong’ with the truck. It was doing what it was programmed to do. I grew to hate that truck.
I have a 2018 Western star that came with a DD15, I Couldn't go 100 miles without warning lights coming on, I replaced it with a 1998 12.7 60 series and also got rid of the automatic transmission. My DD 15 was nothing but trouble. The 60 series has not let me down once .
I’m never really operating below 1200 rpms anyway so I don’t really experience turbo lag. I like to keep the rpms between 1200-1700
The top of the torque curve of an engine is where you want your RPM to be when driving at your desired highest highway cruising speed in trucks that are registered for no more than 80,000 lbs.
I got lucky I guess. My 2009 cascadia with a dd15 has been a great engine. No major problems in 8 years and about 500k miles. It’s time for a inframe so I decided it’s time for a factory reman 12.7
How many miles currently do you have on it? I also have a 2009 Cascadia Pre DEF.
Also, did you come switch a rack and pinion setup?
I am also looking at swapping my dd15 for a 12.7. Do you know a good place where I can purchase and have engine installed?
Series 60 all the way. It the best damn and reliable engine here in USA. PERIOD. What.. ? U say sum .. . .? Ya better be with me here because if u not I will know 100 % that u don't know a damn thing when it comes to legendary engines ..because that's what a 12.7 60 series is : A LEGENDARY ENGINE.
DIG IT.
Had a 99 century with a 12.7 series 60 470hp and 1750 TQ
Was doing Toronto to Los Angeles heavy weight and never got under 7 mpg
N14 and 3406 are good too.
60 series all the way to me even I'll transfer the kit to a brand new truck
My dd15 has 1,223,300 miles only have had overhead run done on it. Just starting showing signs of less horsepower, lights popping on at dash.
You sure know how to maintain, what oil brand do you use? Keep doing what you know best. 👍🏽🥇🥇🥇
I'm new driving trucks, I started using a series 60 14L, and I loved that engine. Now I'm driving other truck with a CAT but I still miss that s-60
While in the Marines my LVS had 60 series and geared low for torque. Dual turbo, supercharged. If tire lost grip 1/4 rotation would dig 18” in ground
My personal opinion if you have really heavy loads get a c15 with stronger bolts on the rockers and good oil pan gasket and permatek on the head gasket. The c15 is a beast if setup properly.
The newer the engine the more bullshit they add im happy with my detroit 99
Love my series 60 14L 💪🏽💪🏽
Be sure to keep overhead adjustment, air filters, and Pms up to date. Keep trucking 👍🏼👊🏼🚚
An a s6014 L well tune an turned up will run with cats an b reliable as a 12.7 s60 ,n 14 gd too but not high Hp numbers want stay together long 500000/800000 rebuild time cat an s60 way to go
Or d12 less power though
Liked yor video. This Diesel Doctor. Sandia Tx. Word love to meet you all. Close to Corpus Christy and the beach. I repair all models. Cat reliability. Best truck engine ever built in my books if built right.
Love my 12.7 pre everything!
Engine bullet proof an the n14 & cat
Guys got couple details wrong. Dd was released in 2008 , not designed in 2009. The injection pressure is 30,000 psi. Dd15 in 2015 had very few issues most of the after treatment. The engine has been rock solid since released. Dd requires more skill and training to repair than 60 series. Lots of problems from untrained hands.
The only real detroits are the 318 and the 12V71. I have both. Can never decide which is better. Mechanical motors are the only way to go. No computer junk for me.
or blue tanks!
Do you know why they were called detroit convertors? Anybody??
@@larrydraper2118 yes sir... they convert diesel fuel into beautiful music!!!
Well that's not quite how the saying goes, but I like your enthusiasm and loyalty!! Have Fun and Happy Motoring!! 😎👍
Im running a 318 to this day. Love the ole girl. Lost most of my hearing in the service so the noise dont bug me. I pay a bit more in fuel but maitnace is offsetting that. Lost my alternator in Duluth MN, drove to Fargo, dropped the trailer and drove it to the parts store. 45 min swap in the parking lot.
Good job guys I can’t wait to come see you guys
Thanks for watching, and that you for the support. 🔧👊🏼🚚
A 60series is not only leaps and bounds above a DD15, but I would argue better than any engine made in the last 20 years!…there is a reason why truckers are buying up older trucks that have these engines and rebuilding them front to back because they are more reliable and the dirty EPA doesn’t have their grubby hands on them…yet…but like most bureaucratic/commie organizations, they will eventually try to close loopholes like they did in commie California!..they’re good at practicing “forced innovation”…but really all it is basically is companies who pay for dirty politician’s campaigns and then getting them to pass laws to force the people to buy their products!..it was never about saving the environment…it was always about making lots of money!!…I will stick with my trusty 60 series as long as I can!!
The company I work for has been getting a bunch of new Freightliner's in now I will miss all are standards once the last few we have are gone maintenance is crucial the company I work for takes very good care of our trucks
Information starts at 1:25. I like it. Volvo D13 started to be unreliable since 2019 redesign and camshaft issues. So I think later DD15 is way to go
Yea all that sounds good , but I see more newer trucks in the shop than old ones.
I notice mechanics who make money on repairs are starting to put down the older engines and build up the newer ones...typical bs...keep ur new trucks I will keep my 2002 classic xl w/ 12.7 60 series
RFG, I am a fan of the non-emission series 60. Later models, not so much. Also, we are not allowed to modify aftertreatemt systems without penalties. So our best option is to educate drivers on the best practices when owning a DD15 and offering better service. 👍🏼🔧👊🏼
I feel you brother...
60 series all day cheaper to maintain and rebuild in the long run. Just a simpler engine. Have a car hauler that logs all day with a 60 series and is still going strong. Damn thing won't giveup.
Just completed overhaul on Detroit 60 12.7 liter 2007 freightliner columbia and in high gears from 45 mph I have no power. Accelerator to the floor takes me 5 min to get to 70 mph bobtail.
- overhauled
- new block
- new crankshaft
- new ECM
- all new injectors
- vpod
- vpod sensor
- turbo sensor
Can you point me in the right direction of what it might be?
Mines like that too
@@392nightrunner Hey on mine I found out the oil return line was reversed. Hopefully this helps you because this was super frustrating for me. Truck is running a lot better now.
Get it tune
@@samuellathon5960 figured out some months later the oil return line was reversed. That’s what was causing my issues.
We need to get rid of the epa
Finally, a channel that addresses everything that really matters.
My 60 series is way more reliable than my DD15. It even gets better fuel mileage in my 379 Pete than the DD15 in the Cascadia.
Bro i get 7.4 mpg on the freightshaker classic , not bad for a brick going down the highway going 65 mph.. i thought i would get 5 mpg max lol i dont idle btw i have a generator on the back of bunk for the ac at night., shhaker has the 12.7 no emmisions btw. Idk the mpg on 14 l is
@SC, thanks for sharing. 👊🏼🔧👍🏼
My dad's Detroit 8V92T outlived his friends DD15 & has 2 million miles more than my series 60 that thing is unkillable
Than something is wrong with your cascadia.
@@jasswear8911 Cascadia?? He said he has a Freightliner Classic with a series 60 not a Cascadia with a DD engine
60 series all day everyday.
I was going to post it, you beat me to it!
Yes Sir I love my 60series
1.7mil on it and Counting
ALL DAY!!!!!
Good ole DDEC 3 470 with a 13 O/O 3.55’s
Blink and tail lights is all you see !!!
Can u still buy parts for the series 60?
Pre emissions s60 shouldn't be compared to other engines it's in it's own class
As a diesel tech id rather work on the simpler engine like the 60 series, or the n14, or any cat rather then deal with the hassel of a dd15 or an isx or x series
Dd15 is much easier to work on that series 60.
@@massey_2298 hey man, everyone has their own tastes and preferences. Id like to work on cats only but sometimes you gotta do something different 😂
My cylinder liners kept cracking on my series 60.I now have a dd15,so far so good.
Sounds as if the engine was over-heated .
Man youre not lying on not finding available parts now days, no one wanrs to work and make materials because theyre all laying on their ass receiving giverment checks, i had to wait a month just to get 3 batteries smh. And those batteries were gone in a few days, i went to dwalership days later to return the cores and saw the new batteries all gone.
My 2013 cascadia dd15 is takes a lot of oil and it doesn’t leaking any where but it runs good any it’s over 1m miles what should I do
60 Series all day!!💯💯💯
All those broke freightliners in the background are all DD 15. 60 series #1….. ill take a 60 series repair over any other engine
@Ricardo Valdez, the one on the right of me is a century with an S60 having electrical problems. Chassis issues like electrical, suspension and front steering are common. But, you are primarily correct Cascadias populate our roads today. There are less Century and FLDs
Ricardo....this guy loves the DD15...why ?? Probably because his shop if full of those unreliable engines...
I hear him talking about the DD15 having peak torque at lower rpm’s. On paper it looks better than the 60 series. But every day, I pass up DD15s on hard pulls with my 60 series. Have yet to be outdone by a DD15
60 series win
DD series piece $π!£
Mava 78, late model DD15, and DD15 with no maintenance will give you issues.
U said it ....
My 2005 12.7 60 series will outpull our dd15 trucks, I can't say much about reliability as mine has 578,000 and the dd15's have less and none have had any major problems.
I have a freight shaker 2009 on is original serie 60 14 liter on 12.7 turbo program and o oo boy n14 and this engine that I have known the best engine that I work and. Never never let me down I want reliability no sensor or the best brand new truck I love old school
I am having issues with my 2013 dd15 and will be going to a 12.7 in the future. Where I will be getting the 12.7 from, the guy said the 12.7s are going like hot cakes.
does your shop work on deleted trucks. Not asking if you do deletes.
I realize this is an old video but I'm hoping you'll see this.
We currently have a 2023 freightliner Cascadia with a DD13.
I'm doing my best to learn as much as I can before we order our 2026.
As of now I think I'm going to spec it with a DD15 set at the lowest HP rating with the tallest rears I can order.
We're trying to squeeze as much MPG as we can.
Any advice you can give would be great.
Thanks in advance.
I got a 60 series pushing 650hp n love it
wtf...how you get 650hp...do a vid man
Really??
Could you do a video comparison to include other brands and engine series
This video only shows you prefer the DD15 engine .......period
You couldn’t be more wrong. He gave you details about each individual engine and gave you proper knowledge and education about each platform. He did not sell or steer her in any direction. And if he did prefer the DD15, he would be smart. It is a very solid engine and platform
@@bz4shez just because you prefer or own the DD15 also....it's doesn't mean I'm wrong..
I see you have less time for videos. That means things are busy in the new shop. Congrats.
Series 60 is the way to go in the oilfield!
As a master Detroit tech, DD engine is best if you want to make money. Legally..
Thank you for the content
Series 60 14L deleted egr and borg Warner turbo, there isn't a more reliable motor out there than that
My set up 12.7
I got one for sale
@@1995iraqi how much?
Did mines also deleted the v pod, egr, egr cooler 12.7 turbo non vgt never looked back once
where you get your delete kit from
The original series 60 is based on a Mercedes ag engine not John deer . Best engine Detroit ever built. First gen 60 series. Although never owned dd15.
Thank you for sharing. That is great to know. Mercedes has a proven background.
Like always GREAT INFO, GREAT VID!!! Been running Detroits since 05....definitely agree the 17+ DDs are engineered wayyyyyy better than previous 60series and DD engines.....Better fuel mileage, most importantly more quiet, reliable, better fuel mileage.
Ill be driving by you when your DD derates because your dpf is clog lol
U must b a new driver keep ur dd15 lol
I thought the 14l series 60 was 515hp with 1650 torque.
60 serie 12.7 God bless the people invented the motor the best
Should have been a 14L liter early in 1989 though not 2000
Great information!
60 series 12.7 it's the best diesel engine ever produce followed by the n14 Cummins
Thank you 🙏
Can you make a video on catapilar engines I woud appreciate it that. I debating on getting a 60 series or a cat
Both r gd an the n14 an isx 15 ,99/2002 engine
My 2016 Freightliner is getting only 6.2 mph after repairs to my computer. How can I get it back to 6.5 or better mph?
When the DD15 makes a 2.300.000kms without problems I agree but at the moment I never ever I buying a that piece of crap engine without many electronics stuffs 🙄👎👎👎 in my opinion the best ever engine by DETROIT was a S60 12.7! I driving 2.300.000kms without anything inside of engine just a normal maintenance that's it 👏👌👌👍 more new more crap more expensive to repair and not fiability engine 🙄🤔 no thanks I will keep a oldest S60 470hp so fellas not offense but this is my opinion 😃👍 cheers from Norway
And this is why I don't own a newer truck anymore, because having a truck just stop on you in the middle of nowhere and being down from 2wks to 2 months and not earning a penny is not my idea of spending so much on newer trucks that are crap.
❤❤❤❤❤
These manufacturers test their products at the consumers cost.
DD15 is the only engine that took 1.5 Billion and 5 years to manufacture
@@joshuacasino9566 yes sir.. and thats a shame that it took all that to design boat anchors
Thanks dude
Happy to help
What your inframe price for cummins isx. ?
Tengo un dd15 del 2015 , se me duerme en las lomas hasta con poco peso, suelto el acelerador y vuelvo a acelerar y sube bien, nadie puede decirme que es?? Gracias
el problema es el motor los motores nuevo no sirven. Suerte!
@Yoan Trucker. Cambiar los filtros diesel si es el mismo, verifique si hay fugas de boost y si el sensor y la conexión de la batería están limpios
@R Buck Rebuilds, S60 pre emission son buenos los únicos problemas son los chasiss
@@TATEXPRESSINC quiero una cita para revisarlo con ustedes, gracias por responder
llamar al 972-225-3017
Série 60 14 L the best engine I drive in America
I wish that he would have discussed fuel economy. I have a company '22 Freightliner with a DD15, 455 HP, DT12 1750 torque.
The truck was issued to me brand new. I have just over 20k on it now and my mpg is 7.9 to date!
Most of my loads were less than 30k but I've done a whole lot of driving on the 64/77 route back and forth from Virginia to Indiana/Ohio; lots of steep hills and curves.
I have a 02 freightliner series 60 14l. My mate had a 2015 freightliner with dd15. We both had identical trailers, and carted similar freight, over similar terrain. We both got almost identical fuel economy. We're in Australia, but economy for both trucks was around 5mpg, carting just shy of 100000lbs gross. My 14 is pre egr, and pretty sure 15 here has no ad blue
@@salem9477 Cool
This guy tripping hard after reading freightliner engine brochures. Detroit 60 will out perform dd15 all day every day in real world applications. Also the dd15 has major turbo lag due to power restrictions caused by after treatment system. You may be a good mechanic but unless you running these trucks all day everyday you have no working knowledge of the mechanical performance of these engines you can only go off brochures from manufacturers and the issues you see when they roll in the shop.
I have both, the DD15 has less power but less leaks. My 60 series has the power but it leaks oil all the time.
Not a drip from my 97
Why does peak torque affect turbo lag. If I am on overrun and then floor it...that is turbo lag. Why does revs affect it. Turbo lag is the time taken to get boost from nil to full noise. You might have peak torque anywhere in the rev range, but a slow pick up turbo is the thing that limits agility.
Grate video amigo...
I have a Detroit 60 14L
740,000 miles.
Overhaul kits for the DD15 are back ordered currently. Beware.
I will take a good old Series 60 over DD15 Mercedes German designed junk any day.
Hello buddy. I got 2015 dd15 and in one of your videos u mentioned that at 500000 miles u changed oil pump and one more thing which I forgot. So can u let me know
Without a doubt series 60 the best ever. Use to have 2014 cascadia dd15. Worst engine ever @ 450 k. Injectors failures, head failure, air compressor, fan clutch, water pump, one box that's all in first year. Luckily the truck got wrote off. Got the insurance paid out money and bought 2007 columbia with a 14L series 60. Four years later at 1.1 millions miles. Not even burn an ounce of oil. Great truck best I've ever own and will own till retired 🎉
Series 60 better fuel economy and better torque and power and a hellva lot cheaper to work on
series 60 whoo!
I get the vs thing but looks a way to compare and older engine to a newer 1
Dd15 all day
So what about the Volvo D 12 engine
Good engine.
So should i look for a 17 model? Nothing older ?
60 series is far better than dd15
I ran those DD15s up in North Dakota, extremely expensive to service and repair. I could not believe the cost of the filters.
Most expensive service on the planet
What filters? I found buying one cartridge oil filter was cheaper than 2 over priced steel ones abd easier to service
@@tylerslepicka156The outfit I was working for, I believe 2019, they were paying $200 - $300 + for ea filter, be it fuel, oil or air... I damn near fainted when I saw what they were paying for these filters from the local distributor.
@@michaelwright1602 man!!
@@tylerslepicka156In my John Wick voice, "Yeah".
Can automatic truck change to manual transmission