That was a long time ago. Glory days when melta was actually anti armor and ap 2 negated all armor. Also when you needed 6 different rules sources to play one army 🤣
@fe4rlicia540 well if it was at shooting ork need if because of the low BS (so lot of roll and time to do dommage...) Know fight phase not as much as SM .... The only real new thing the detachement bring is the 40 shoots with reroll hitting on 4+
I don't think DGs entire range is usable as you don't see much but the same models in most lists these days. I think DG are only doing good rn because they haven't been touched as much as other armies have. Some examples of bad but cheap value units not being used much: blightlords, haulers, crawlers, hellbrutes, spawn
Marines and DG being good is nice for us as our weaponry is optimized to kill Marines. Guard is also easy for us to deal with. Necrons are a problem though.
I wish theyd show ultramarines seperate from the rest of the chapters. That way they can actually properly balance all of them instead of basing the entire factions win rate and power on Ultramarines
I wish they'd separate divergent chapters from codex space Marines and copy chaos space Marines and let them have their own version so jump pack units stop getting nerfed for ba's sins, or gladius and ironstorm stop getting nerfed for dark angels sins
The fact that death guard slipped the net from nerfs makes me so happy, it's my 18th early on in the new year and i was so worried I'd be playing with a trash army, now I know I won't
I’m super new to WH40K and I’m realllllly bummed about the Battle Sisters’ codex. It hit us honestly way too hard and now it’s gonna be difficult to play our army let alone win.
And it's kind of weird that them having their codex, already, actually hurts them more. Fate Dice have been a problem for some since 10e started, and it took a lot of nerfs since, but then they decided "Players don't like playing with/against this; it's too boring, and too good." (Opinion), so they'll change the Eldar faction mechanic to something else, and leave the watered down fate dice to the Ulthwe detachment. That works for Eldar because they'll be getting their book, to do that, but Sisters already have theirs, with detachments built around how that works, so when it basically takes every nerf Eldar did, but then also has to be expected to still carry the faction, that hurts, and it doesn't help that, until recently, the Space Marines have mostly sucked, despite being the iconic faction. Sisters are basically weaker Astartes, with less T, W, and heavy weapon diversity, and without any of the upticks the Space Marines just recently got, to shore them up. I'm not thinking Sisters will enter "raging dumpster fire" territory, but I feel like they already had their bright point of the edition, and are now being left behind for other stuff to shine.
@@venkelos6996 sisters units are usually as expensive (sometimes even more, like seraphim/retributors) than space marine counterparts despite the wild difference in tanking stats, strength and damage. MD was the mechanic that allowed sisters to stay remain competitive. With MD generation cut from 1/2 to 1/4 depending on how many units died, that "advantage" that allowed them to stay on the battlefield is virtually removed. So we're now with expensive, paper sisters who cant do damage on their own.
As a necron player, I am pretty pissed about Starshatter arsenal. It's stupidly OP and is going to cause a number of core units to get points nerfs that will negatively impact other detachments.
I really don't think starshatter is going to change things that much. It's good, but tactical tortoise did a wrap up of tournaments that used the new rules and necrons didn't make it to the finals of any of them.
Guard: was propped up by a single strong unit (again) that was just nerfed 6 feet underground, also had the strongest character nerfed into near uselessness, also had the most useful Battle Line nerfed into the ground, also had the best transport gutted and left to bleed out, making many decent lists (like my previous main stay) go up by 20% or more, leaving us with an index that is 90% bad 5% ok 5% good. Everyone on the Internet who doesn’t play Guard: I don’t know, they still seem pretty strong.
Forgot to mention the -1 unit to hyperphase for the necrons, which is imo one of the bigger and more unnecessary nerfs hitting the internal balance. 1 or maybe 2 detachments out of 6 being competitive does not represent well the overall strength of the faction, while starshatter will bring home a 55% winrate things like canoptek court and annihiliation will get a measly 40%, yet everyone will be complaining that necrons are too strong
Grey Knights traded mists and sigil (only good things left un-nerfed) for rerolling 1's to hit/all hits. On an army with a ton of lethal hit terminators. The power spike even outside Hallowed Ground is immense.
I would have put the ork in the biggest menace now since they now no longer fear to start second with the waagh activating during their command phase and their new detachment that is really strong.
I'm honestly most interested to see what people do with the grotsmas knights detachments both chaos and imperial i want to see what top players attempt to build from them
Haloscreed for Admech needs time to develop the best way to use it, for now it contains so much possibilities that everyone can have fun, yet some of the tournament player are already trying to make it competitive🤔
I think the game will speed up with all these changes. So many armies got more damage and fewer saves. Ive noticed a lot more mortals added to the game. FNP and speed will be meta.
hey Auspex, i'm wondering. in these statistics, is it pure win only or win compared to the amount of player playing the army? because if its only the first one then you could say automatically army's that get played a lot are most likely to be top army's.
Generally he goes by win percentage, which is inherently weighted to the number of games played with that army. He does sometimes also mention raw tournament wins, though, which aren't weighted for the player numbers.
It's still utterly baffling that GSC, who were a top-tier army, got 'nerfed' by making their army rule more predictable, which certainly doesn't feel like a nerf when you take down a key unit only to know that it's going to come back immediately. Meanwhile Sisters, who were already upper-mid at best, got their army rule almost completely destroyed. (And then got a Grotmas detachment clearly written either without any knowledge of that nerf, or by a sadist.) It seems there's a small but influential contingent either in GW's rules team or in the tournament scene who are virulently opposed to Miracle Dice being a thing.
I only play both Sisters and Eldar, and there are a lot of people who complain often about how miracle and fate dice suck the fun out of the dice throwing part of the game. I honestly see their point, it happens very often in my games where the Miracle/Fate dice take any anticipation out of whether something important of mine will die or something important of theirs will survive because I can control the outcome. I do agree with you though, this halfway solution of gutting how many you get is just bad and they need to either get rid of them completely and give us new rules or let them work properly.
Ultramarines getting most of the benefit from the change to "codex chapters" tracks with GWs general balancing decisions. Wish Feirros increased the OC of Dreadnoughts so Iron Hands would at least be thematic.
I agree. If you’re a competitive player codex compliant player you’re going to pick ultramarines. Get ready to see a lot ultra hands, ultra fists, ultra manders, ultra guard and ultra scars all with oddly colored gullimans. I appreciate GW trying to give lesser seen chapters some love, but plus 1 OC to terminators does not equal double oath of moment with plus 1 to wound. Forget starshatter, ultras will be the main army to beat.
Gee the necron hate is out in force today. 51% prior to being nerfed and in the 3 tournaments that ran the new rules last weekend necrons didnt make it to finals in any of them, including the one that allowed grotmas detachments.
Necrons about to absolutely blow the competition out of the water, shatterstar may be the best detachment in all 40k now along with necrons already rocking the best raw datasheets in the game
Im choosing to believe Games Workshop are trying to sell all there doomsday arks off before releasing a new model alongside new C'tan models. There's no reason to have Doomsday Arks be this good in comparison to the rest of the Heavy Weapons options, although LHDs arent terrible. (I dont care if its copium LET ME HAVE THIS) (Please)
Man Death Guard despite having win rates be pretty good, I honestly think they are in a pretty bad spot. So many characters do very little, inconsistency in the rules unit to unit, Mortarion being super weak for who he is, and the army rule genuinely sucking ass makes it difficult for me to say they are doing good.
There are actually theories in probability theory that prove your point. When the factions are fairly close, differences in performance are basically due to random effects of various kinds. When you try to "fix" a process with a high level of randomness already, you actually increase the variance of the process. They are making decisions on the basis of noise, believing (falsely) the noise to be informative. This has been known since the 1950's in the process improvement community. 40K win rates are complex, because players adapt their lists to the meta -- which probably has a dampening effect on variation -- so even less reason to balance what does not need to be balanced.
As a DG players i can say, morty is just a scary mirage. He looks scary but does very minor dmg. It's mainly his buffs and ability to have an opponent waste firepower and time trying to take him down.
![True Size of a Krieg Siege Army (Infantry) [999.M41] 3D Documentary](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/k9RNVqx_HQ4/mqdefault.jpg)
Have fun everyone with your new detachments! (A Sororitas sister giving you all prayers of faith as she embarks on a path of martyrdom).
Last time I was this early, bolters were AP5.
Now that would’ve made me consider taking some intercessors
That was a long time ago. Glory days when melta was actually anti armor and ap 2 negated all armor.
Also when you needed 6 different rules sources to play one army 🤣
@@danielmulcahy9607jeez 6!
You're due for a prostate exam.
@@frostypineapple it's not ap-5 lol
I'm very interested to see how new ork detachment does in competitive, less damage than warhorde for sure, but a huge Toolbox outside the waaagh
Yes I'm also curious but also not that concerned as it looks the most fun to play
I've played with a ork player using the new detachment. The amount of rolls, rerolls and damage is higher than my space marines ever wish to be
@fe4rlicia540 well if it was at shooting ork need if because of the low BS (so lot of roll and time to do dommage...)
Know fight phase not as much as SM ....
The only real new thing the detachement bring is the 40 shoots with reroll hitting on 4+
“Balance is ephemeral. The Hive Mind is eternal.”
- This message paid for by Gamers for the Consumption of Biomass
It’s so crazy seeing death guard having a winrate near the top after the beginning of 8th edition
I started DG before balance patch but before i get a collection they will go back into the shadows so maybe in 12th be good again 😂
I don't think DGs entire range is usable as you don't see much but the same models in most lists these days. I think DG are only doing good rn because they haven't been touched as much as other armies have. Some examples of bad but cheap value units not being used much: blightlords, haulers, crawlers, hellbrutes, spawn
*Nervous Tau laughter*
Agreed
Marines and DG being good is nice for us as our weaponry is optimized to kill Marines. Guard is also easy for us to deal with.
Necrons are a problem though.
I wish theyd show ultramarines seperate from the rest of the chapters. That way they can actually properly balance all of them instead of basing the entire factions win rate and power on Ultramarines
I wish they'd separate divergent chapters from codex space Marines and copy chaos space Marines and let them have their own version so jump pack units stop getting nerfed for ba's sins, or gladius and ironstorm stop getting nerfed for dark angels sins
ULTRABROS WE ARE SO BACK
Just destroyed thousand sons this morning, after getting defeated miserably about a month ago by the same list. Boy it felt good.
Yes sir 🫡
I tried guilliman in Ironstormn. won against admech it feels really strong
Rawbutt Girlyman is scary again!
nerfed sisters 50 percent win rate, didnt touch admech are they on crack
The fact that death guard slipped the net from nerfs makes me so happy, it's my 18th early on in the new year and i was so worried I'd be playing with a trash army, now I know I won't
I’m super new to WH40K and I’m realllllly bummed about the Battle Sisters’ codex. It hit us honestly way too hard and now it’s gonna be difficult to play our army let alone win.
And it's kind of weird that them having their codex, already, actually hurts them more. Fate Dice have been a problem for some since 10e started, and it took a lot of nerfs since, but then they decided "Players don't like playing with/against this; it's too boring, and too good." (Opinion), so they'll change the Eldar faction mechanic to something else, and leave the watered down fate dice to the Ulthwe detachment. That works for Eldar because they'll be getting their book, to do that, but Sisters already have theirs, with detachments built around how that works, so when it basically takes every nerf Eldar did, but then also has to be expected to still carry the faction, that hurts, and it doesn't help that, until recently, the Space Marines have mostly sucked, despite being the iconic faction. Sisters are basically weaker Astartes, with less T, W, and heavy weapon diversity, and without any of the upticks the Space Marines just recently got, to shore them up. I'm not thinking Sisters will enter "raging dumpster fire" territory, but I feel like they already had their bright point of the edition, and are now being left behind for other stuff to shine.
@@venkelos6996I approve of your stream of consciousness
@@venkelos6996 sisters units are usually as expensive (sometimes even more, like seraphim/retributors) than space marine counterparts despite the wild difference in tanking stats, strength and damage. MD was the mechanic that allowed sisters to stay remain competitive. With MD generation cut from 1/2 to 1/4 depending on how many units died, that "advantage" that allowed them to stay on the battlefield is virtually removed.
So we're now with expensive, paper sisters who cant do damage on their own.
You do realize how unbalanced they were. Now they are in line with the rest. If you can't win sounds more like a skill issue.
@scrye I agree miracle dice were just supposed to help with certain situations not just here eat these 6s
As a necron player, I am pretty pissed about Starshatter arsenal. It's stupidly OP and is going to cause a number of core units to get points nerfs that will negatively impact other detachments.
I'm excluding The Silent King and DA's from my Starshatter Arsenal, less impact when the nerf hits.
I really don't think starshatter is going to change things that much. It's good, but tactical tortoise did a wrap up of tournaments that used the new rules and necrons didn't make it to the finals of any of them.
Guard: was propped up by a single strong unit (again) that was just nerfed 6 feet underground, also had the strongest character nerfed into near uselessness, also had the most useful Battle Line nerfed into the ground, also had the best transport gutted and left to bleed out, making many decent lists (like my previous main stay) go up by 20% or more, leaving us with an index that is 90% bad 5% ok 5% good.
Everyone on the Internet who doesn’t play Guard: I don’t know, they still seem pretty strong.
Forgot to mention the -1 unit to hyperphase for the necrons, which is imo one of the bigger and more unnecessary nerfs hitting the internal balance. 1 or maybe 2 detachments out of 6 being competitive does not represent well the overall strength of the faction, while starshatter will bring home a 55% winrate things like canoptek court and annihiliation will get a measly 40%, yet everyone will be complaining that necrons are too strong
Hello everyone! I hope all is well, I hope everyone is ready for the holidays!
Grey Knights traded mists and sigil (only good things left un-nerfed) for rerolling 1's to hit/all hits. On an army with a ton of lethal hit terminators. The power spike even outside Hallowed Ground is immense.
Oo i needed that
Seeing Morty significantly more is awesome
Death guard back in hunt baby
Dont complain about DG. Our grotmas detech is trash, and we played the first year with a sub40% faction. Let us enjoy this for a moment pls.
On god 😭💯
I would have put the ork in the biggest menace now since they now no longer fear to start second with the waagh activating during their command phase and their new detachment that is really strong.
I'm just upset that the "fix" to deathguard rn is make them a horde army
Same, our infantry aren't spectacular besides the value of the deathshroud just because of their stats and durable ability
I'm honestly most interested to see what people do with the grotsmas knights detachments both chaos and imperial i want to see what top players attempt to build from them
My take would be that Necrons with Starshatter are the strongest amy in the game now, followed by Marines, DG and (Scions) Guard
In a fit of cruelty I'm playing assimilation swarm in a Pariah nexus crusade and its a lot of fun, if a bit cheap.
Haloscreed for Admech needs time to develop the best way to use it, for now it contains so much possibilities that everyone can have fun, yet some of the tournament player are already trying to make it competitive🤔
Grey Knights are super strong now. As uppy downy with damage (aka Hypercrypt) is a good recipe for success
i think custodes might have a shot to rise up a bit being that others took nerfs and they didnt get anything
I think the game will speed up with all these changes. So many armies got more damage and fewer saves. Ive noticed a lot more mortals added to the game. FNP and speed will be meta.
hey Auspex, i'm wondering. in these statistics, is it pure win only or win compared to the amount of player playing the army?
because if its only the first one then you could say automatically army's that get played a lot are most likely to be top army's.
Generally he goes by win percentage, which is inherently weighted to the number of games played with that army. He does sometimes also mention raw tournament wins, though, which aren't weighted for the player numbers.
Question for the terrain!Does it come painted?😅
It's still utterly baffling that GSC, who were a top-tier army, got 'nerfed' by making their army rule more predictable, which certainly doesn't feel like a nerf when you take down a key unit only to know that it's going to come back immediately. Meanwhile Sisters, who were already upper-mid at best, got their army rule almost completely destroyed. (And then got a Grotmas detachment clearly written either without any knowledge of that nerf, or by a sadist.)
It seems there's a small but influential contingent either in GW's rules team or in the tournament scene who are virulently opposed to Miracle Dice being a thing.
I only play both Sisters and Eldar, and there are a lot of people who complain often about how miracle and fate dice suck the fun out of the dice throwing part of the game. I honestly see their point, it happens very often in my games where the Miracle/Fate dice take any anticipation out of whether something important of mine will die or something important of theirs will survive because I can control the outcome.
I do agree with you though, this halfway solution of gutting how many you get is just bad and they need to either get rid of them completely and give us new rules or let them work properly.
Maybe make one for the opposite spectrum?
Ultramarines getting most of the benefit from the change to "codex chapters" tracks with GWs general balancing decisions. Wish Feirros increased the OC of Dreadnoughts so Iron Hands would at least be thematic.
I agree. If you’re a competitive player codex compliant player you’re going to pick ultramarines. Get ready to see a lot ultra hands, ultra fists, ultra manders, ultra guard and ultra scars all with oddly colored gullimans. I appreciate GW trying to give lesser seen chapters some love, but plus 1 OC to terminators does not equal double oath of moment with plus 1 to wound. Forget starshatter, ultras will be the main army to beat.
@@j.k.prufrock5605 at least the Feirros brick is really good into Marines now
tho of course the temptation to create a Servo-Primarch exists
I can confidently say it's not the Votann.
and definitely not Sisters of Battle either
Gee the necron hate is out in force today. 51% prior to being nerfed and in the 3 tournaments that ran the new rules last weekend necrons didnt make it to finals in any of them, including the one that allowed grotmas detachments.
Necrons about to absolutely blow the competition out of the water, shatterstar may be the best detachment in all 40k now along with necrons already rocking the best raw datasheets in the game
I’m never this lucky
Wonderful. More changes to keep us confused. 40K turning into a full time job.
Intercessors 👀
Still waiting for World Eaters update... :(
Maybe my Imperial fists with the 10 intercessors lead by a lieutenant with Architech of war enhancement plus the battle drill recall strategem :D
I feel you brother
Im choosing to believe Games Workshop are trying to sell all there doomsday arks off before releasing a new model alongside new C'tan models.
There's no reason to have Doomsday Arks be this good in comparison to the rest of the Heavy Weapons options, although LHDs arent terrible.
(I dont care if its copium LET ME HAVE THIS)
(Please)
As an Ultra player, I am very pleased lol
Yep
Me and my deathguard buddy have a primarch v primarch game planned soon
@scolack123 Hell yeah
I sure know sisters wont be in this LOL
Got to say 40K is getting some real bloat. Completely changing the army strats / rule with each detachment starts to get super confusing
Add a comment...😮
Man Death Guard despite having win rates be pretty good, I honestly think they are in a pretty bad spot. So many characters do very little, inconsistency in the rules unit to unit, Mortarion being super weak for who he is, and the army rule genuinely sucking ass makes it difficult for me to say they are doing good.
Fortunately, statistics don’t care how you feel 👍🏻
They have some cool stuff but alot of unusable models. By unusable I mean they are not that good despite being cheap.
I play 4e 40k
I only watch these videos for Nuhammer tears lol.
leagues of votann ... silence
13 seconds ago. Geez
No views yet? Disappointed
Can I get some upvotes for the emperor
Metachasers everywhere🤮
oh great, another "balancing" patch, that causes wild swings in power distribution
There are actually theories in probability theory that prove your point. When the factions are fairly close, differences in performance are basically due to random effects of various kinds. When you try to "fix" a process with a high level of randomness already, you actually increase the variance of the process. They are making decisions on the basis of noise, believing (falsely) the noise to be informative. This has been known since the 1950's in the process improvement community. 40K win rates are complex, because players adapt their lists to the meta -- which probably has a dampening effect on variation -- so even less reason to balance what does not need to be balanced.
Horrible sponsor.
Ultramarines just need to get -10% points cut for all characters
Lolno. They're already one of the best armies in game, just be better.
@jacket2848 I think you misspoke, I think you meant 25% points cut for all characters
@@NewChimeraCalgar with Victrix leading Eradicators is an unkillable death star that points and deletes, and you're wanting to make it CHEAPER!?
@SarajevoKyoto yes
@@NewChimera May I ask why?
World eaters are clearly the strongest.
They haven’t had a terrible Grotmas detachment yet
As an ultramarines player, I’m not touching gulliman while he’s still more expensive than Mortarion.
Why?
Then we can safely say you're just bad at the game. He's in every single competitive UM list.
What a moronic take. People like you are the reason ultramarines are buffed out of their eyeballs
Shows how little you know about the game right now. Gulli is far better than Morti right now
As a DG players i can say, morty is just a scary mirage. He looks scary but does very minor dmg. It's mainly his buffs and ability to have an opponent waste firepower and time trying to take him down.