Straight to the point. That’s what I’m talking about. In less than a minute problem, troubleshoot, and solution. You are the man brotha. Awesome video.
Thanks for sharing. I have this same exact thermostat/ flame controller. Thermopile got to just under 650 mV, but took forever. I had no blinking light at all. No code provided for zero light flashes. Apparently if it takes too long to reach whatever the minimum voltage is, unit shuts down. I believe this to be true, no literature. So I get a new controller and also order a thermopile. Put in new controller first only because thermopile was still a day out. Exact same problem. Replacing controller requires a tank drain (IMO anyways). Got new thermopile, pilot and and igniter unit (3 in one unit) next day. Install new thermopile and instantly problem is fixed. Try thermopile replacement if your pilot works, you have no blinking light and if you can measure the voltage but it takes too long. Even if you can’t measure voltage I would try thermopile first so long as the pilot works. You will probably need a new compression fitting since the 3 in 1 unit came with none, the controller did so I lucked out there. Hope this helps somebody. Think all if this over and don’t try to bypass safety features, a lot of scary stupid vids out there. Cold showers = no fun!!
Where were you able to find part numbers? I cant find any parts locator online like you can for appliances. Everything refers me over to plumbers or washer n dryers
@@RAM-VIC Biker Vic, It’s been a while and I don’t recall exactly how I got the numbers. I bet I looked it up via the controller manual online or something. However I am attaching a pic of what I used. I installed the assembly (pile, igniter and all) and it fixed the issue. Later I bought just the thermopile and put it together with the older parts as a spare assembly unit. Make sure you have the same controller or you’ll need to do more research. Attached is some great info. I bought my parts from an online retailer that sounds a lot like Ramazon (lol). Sorry but I don’t recall exactly how I got there. A lot of good info on the retailer site via other folks questions and answers. Hope the attached pics help. Well… I guess I can’t attach. So here is what I have and used. Gas control unit is WV8840B1158. The thermopile is Reliance Water Heater CO 100112328 21" Thermopile Assembly. The entire ignitor, thermopile and all is Reliance Water Heater 9007876 Gas Thermopile Assembly. Dave
Excellent video! Complete, yet so concise! My thermopile showed no voltage at the controller due to a tripped thermal cutoff (wired in series with thermopile) interrupting the circuit. Pressed the tiny black button to reset, tested voltage again, all good! Re-lighted, blinks, all is well! Set temp, and the familiar big long belching sound as the main burner lights all around means hot shower tonight! Thanks!
First of all thank you. Your videos and detailed comments have been most helpful so far. My issue is the pilot lights but there is no status light. The longest I have waited is a little over two minutes. Should I wait longer? Back story: I found after I was away for 5 hours when I returned home I found I left the water running in my bathroom sink- not fully on but more than a trickle. Later that night I was washing my face and realized the water was cold and it must have ran out but checked on the tank anyway. There was no status light blinking as there should be so I just turned the knob to off and figured I would restart it. I did no check to see if the pilot was on when I just turned it to off... and thought it would be an easy start.. and I hadn't been able to get a status light since. I've read the comments of similar situations on your other videos. I took the thermopile out and cleaned it off and scrubbed with sand paper. The TCO button on mine is white and appears to be out but I press it and it doesn't budge. I did the voltage test and it passed maxing out at 730mV. I did not do the connect the two red wire test. My only thought now is that it's the gas valve control. Is this in line with my tank running a lot while I left the water on and finding it with no status light? Any suggestions or other troubleshoot ideas are appreciated. The only other issues I've had is it go out 3 months ago and had the 4 blink status which I was able to reset. I don't know the age of the unit as I bought my place two years ago and therefore most likely not under warranty. Again, Thank you!
HI Danek, Thank you for the detailed information. Just to rule out the TCO, I would connect the 2 red wires together and relight. The 730mV is excellent, so we can rule out the thermopile. I do believe you will end up being correct with it being a faulty gas control. Since you've witnessed a 4 blink code in the past, I would suspect the gas control. To answer the questions: *"The longest I have waited is a little over two minutes. Should I wait longer?"* 2 minutes is plenty and the thermopile would have reached max voltage. *"Is this in line with my tank running a lot while I left the water on and finding it with no status light?"* This will cause the tank to fire/run for long periods. This usually causes the TCO to trip or the gas controls temperature sensor to trip, causing the pilot flame to go out. I would bypass the TCO to rule that out. If that doesn't resolve the issue, I'd replace the gas control valve. Hopefully this gets you in the right direction. Let me know how it goes. Best of luck!
@@danektorrey9497 I'm glad you have hot water again and the video helped you out. Thank you so much for the very generous donation! Made my day! 😃. Take care!
Thank you for making this. Your video is the only one I've seen so far for this type of unit. Exactly like mine and I couldn't figure how to test the thermal. Thumbs up. Good vid and to the point!
Thank you! It was either my phone (Samsung Galaxy S8) or a Canon EOS Rebel SL2. I was using both at the time of filming this. I have since upgraded to the Panasonic GH5.
Holy shit a water heater with the gas line hard piped. Move this channel up your list folks. If I see flex lines on a water heater, water or gas, I keep it moving.actually did this test once and kept getting. Good reading.Even though when I took it apart the wires were burnt out and pretty much crumpled when I remove the assembly:.
This is awesome. Apparently I have a bad pilot valve. No clicking on pilot, but audible clicking on burner. I guess I'm gonna try and replace the valve assembly?
Pat, Thanks for the very informative and instructional videos! I installed my Whirlpool 40 gal 40k BTU gas water heater 10 yrs ago and it has worked without a problem until just last week. The water was cold so I relite the pilot and it worked for a couple days. It has the Honeywell valve with status light which shows working normally (1 light every 3 seconds). It went out again so I relite it and again it worked for a couple days. I cleaned the vents the first time but noticed the little button between the contacts on the temp switch is stuck hard and won’t depress at all. But since the water heater relites I guess it’s closed. My question is: I can afford a new water heater (thinking of an A. O. Smith from Lowe’s this time) because of this ones age, but if you think I should just replace the thermopile, I will. Your expert opinion would be appreciated! Thank you!
Thanks for the question and detailed information. Did you end up doing a voltage test on the thermopile to determine if it was weak? The TCO button will be "stuck hard" if it is functioning properly, so we can rule that out. With regards to the replacement, it would be your call. I tell my clients to budget for a replacement when the tank is 10 years old, and that most newer residential tanks last between 12-15 years. This is dependent on usage, quality of water heater, and quality of the water. Personally I would change the themopile if that's causing the fault. I have an unfinished basement and there's someone usually always home at my residence though. If your home will be vacant for weeks at a time, I'd lean more towards tank replacement. Then you wouldn't have to worry as much if it were to spring a leak.Hopefully this info helps you make your decision. Thanks!
Pros DIY No I haven’t checked the thermopile voltage yet because my old trusty bought from PX Sperry multimeter (I’m retired Military) doesn’t do millivolts. My friend has a Fluke that will, so I’ll borrow his this weekend and check both the TCO and the thermopile. I’ve heard above 350 is good but you stated 650+ would be the better numbers to determine replacement of the thermopile. I’ll get back with you after I check. As for the water quality - good here in my area of Durham NC, water heater - whirlpool N4OS61-403 seemed a better than average (at the time 2009), and lastly its in our garage plus I’m always home (we watch our granddaughters) so if it leaks very little harm done. Unfortunately I’ve never changed the Anode rod nor done the recommended flushing (lazy I guess argggg). 3 adults in the house shower every couple days so relatively low consumption. I gave you the model number of my old one: could you please direct me to a good and correct thermopile or pilot and thermopile kit? If I go with a new one, I’m considering the AO SMITH brand from Lowe’s and would appreciate your expert opinion: G9-S4040NVR, or G12-S4040NVR, or a 50 gal version (I like long hot showers) with a 9 yr but must be a short. Mine is currently on a 7” high wooden platform which I assume is NC requirement? In the new AI Smith, I wish the anodes were better and glass lined tank, but they are what they are. Anyway, THANK YOU VERY MUCH for any further guidance you can help me with!
@@MRrwmac The voltage test will be very useful and get you in the right direction. Most gas controls will run on as little as 350mV but they should read in the 600mV plus range. Your pilot assembly is part #6911143: amzn.to/2JjQhml Generic water heater thermopiles will work on your model: amzn.to/2D8QTs8 I always recommend a higher capacity tank, like the 50 US gallon. They tend to last longer because they aren't being overworked. The 30-40 gallon tanks are more likely to become depleted (run cold) from time to time. This depletion cycle is very hard on a tank, and can cause them to fail prematurely. A.O. Smith, and Bradford White are my trusted brands. I'm not sure if the 7" platform is a requirement in your jurisdiction. I would assume not, and that it was a personal preference. I would double check with a local contractor though. Let me know what you decide and if your get the voltage reading. Best of Luck!
I install and repair water heaters. If you're considering a new one only buy a Bradford White. Btw, AO smith makes whirlpool and a few others. They're exactly the same and they have a problem with burners tearing. Bradford White is the only way to go
Hey was just wondering what meter you are using in the video. The link you have up is for another meter. I'm having a hard time finding a meter that will go up to the 700 millivolt range.
I'm going to need to get a multimeter and do this test. I also noticed I've got quite the drip going when I removed my manifold cover. I'm guessing that's a pretty bad thing? lol
My temperature cutoff switch keeps tripping! But the controller is giving the error code for thermopile voltage low? Could a bad thermopile cause this?
Getting ready to work on AO Smith Gas Water Heater. GVR 50 300. The pilot lights and I hold down temp control for light blink or even past 2 minutes. I am assuming what I am seeing on Amazon is fine. It is saying it's an upgrade thermopile system for harness and igniter replacement. Not sure. I know I can do this easily with your video. Just need to know what part on Amazon I should order. Have no problem doing what you did in the video I watched on replacing the assembly. I don't have a way to test to see if it's just thermopile. So if you can tell me what link to order the right set up on Amazon. That would be helpful. If it doesn't work I can always return.
My pilot light lights rt up and all the control valve heat positions work good Do the status lights got bad ? Everything in my water heater works fine except there isn’t any flashes come on? Thank you in advance
I would say that the LED has gone bad or the circuit that controls it. I've seen that happen a few times before. If everything else is working, it can be ignored. Thanks for the question!
Plugged pilot tube? I have a reliance HW heater Honeywell gas control in a drip pan ... trying to be proactive and drain the tank apparently was a bad idea. I had to unscrew the nylon spickot - bib to get anything to come out. Finally it did. The pan has a drain so I let it drain ... BAD IDEA it seems. I didn't recognize it breathes from underneath. no spark whatsoever. .. I hope the water in the pan didn't short some circuit board out. If it is simply water and a little crud where it ought not be, I would be happy but ... Any ideas before replacing stuff?
What about Honeywell, changed controller, still getting pilot to turn on but not stay on and no blinking from status light.... did thermal pile test and no reading at all at 2000m DC, any ideas or advice would be appreciated!
Thanks Larry! My water heater trouble shooting video may be helpful as well: th-cam.com/video/_XYCVgsPu1U/w-d-xo.html Hope you get the problem resolved. Cheers!
My gas control valve looks exactly like your but I don't have the reset switch. My pilot lights easily sometimes on the first pop of the piezo. The voltage on the thermopile sometimes reaches as high as 780 mv but there's never any light on the status light, and when I release the pilot button, the fire immediately goes out. Incidentally, the glass vial cutoff switch is intact. What seems to be my problem?
Pat, 500mv. BUT I checked it a bit differently than you described in your video. Why you may ask: Because my thumb gets tired - haha. Just kidding. I’ll explain in a minute I left the temp control at hot but did the check when the burner had been off for 20 minutes. Only the pilot was lit. I pulled the two wire connector from the valve controller (as you did) and connected the red on the fluke to the red wire (which goes directly to the thermopile) and black (on the fluke) to the white wire (which is the other color on my WH) that comes from the thermal switch to the thermocouple. I did it that way to give me a more accurate reading of how much voltage the thermopile was producing in the normal constant on pilot condition. Would doing it that way give me a correct reading? If so, and if (as you said) the thermal switch is working correctly (closed), why is the pilot going out every 3-4 days? Thank you very much Pat.
I think I'm following. Were you testing the thermopile's voltage without having to hold down the control knob? This is called a closed circuit voltage test. The test in the video is an open circuit voltage test. They both will work but the closed circuit voltage test will read slightly lower as the gas controls circuitry will draw some voltage. 500mV would be acceptable for a closed circuit test. Since both the thermopile and thermal switch are passing their tests, I would think it would be a fault with the gas control valve. Commonly the temperature sensor in these valves can fail. They will usually fail at first under higher hot water consumption, and will happen more frequently over time. You can keep a log of when the tank fails and determine if it is happening under high hot water consumption. e.g. filling a bathtub, multiple showers back to back, loads of laundry. If you were a client of mine and the thermal switch and thermopile tests pass, I'd replace the gas control or install a new water heater, depending on age of tank and budget. Thanks for the update!
Pros DIY Well Pat, I think your HWH whisperer mode kicked in on this one because it seems from the testing you recommended (that’s why I hadn’t replied for two weeks) it does sometimes cut the HWH off after heavy use. Instead of replacing parts (I’ll save the $70 totals to rent the pickup from Lowe’s) I’ll get an AO SMITH from Lowe’s (budget is not a huge restriction and seems well spent for another 13+ years). Hope it’s ok to transport on its side?? I’m thinking Signature Select model (either 40 or 50 gal) depending on size. Those models come with either the 9 or 12 year warranty. Do you think the longer warranty is actually worth it (at least as an indicator or quality in the build)? BTW, I drained the tank today (first in its 13 year life, oops) since it shut off anyway. Even after shooting the cold in after empty to mix up sediment, I had very very little white scale purged outta all. Anyway, I very much would appreciate your thoughts now that you have a little more info.
@@MRrwmac Sounds like a solid decision. Residential tanks will be safe to transport on their side and won't void warranty. Just avoid large bumps and potholes. If you have to make a choice between getting the 12 year warranty and a larger capacity tank, I would always choose larger capacity. The larger capacity tanks (50 gallon+) tend to last longer. In my experience the difference in build quality between 9-12 year is negligible. You are just paying extra in the case it has to be repaired in those 3 additional years. It's important to note what the warranty covers too. Currently 6 year warranty tank includes 6 years tank and parts, 1 year labor. 9 year tank includes 9 years tank and parts, 2 years labor. 12 year warranty tank 12 years tank and parts, 3 years labor. In the end it would be your decision in what you believe the extra 3 years is worth. Personally I would never get the extended warranty, but I also get discounted parts and can repair it myself. Hope this helps in your decision. All the Best!
Hi Mike, The thermal or temperature cutoff switch is a device with is connected to the front of the burner door which trips (cuts off gas to the control valve) if the water heater exceeds safe operating temperature. Some of them are manually resettable. Please see this video: th-cam.com/video/_XYCVgsPu1U/w-d-xo.html at the 1:45 mark it helps explain the device. Thanks for the question! Take Care!
Hey bud I know this video is old but I would love some help. I tested the thermopile just now and after 550 it climbs super slow. Would you still consider that a good thermopile? Is so what else could be making me have yo reignite the pilot every couple weeks
I heard alot of problems on that electric Honeywell there is from turning it up to high. Flaw in the design. Guy said keep it low or high temp shutdown and dominoes from there. Cannot confirm this is true but I reset and fired up one three times in a month then no blink. Low or A are best setting from what I understand
Hi Brandon, You're absolutely correct. These water heaters work best at a lower setting. No higher than 140°F. I personally set installed water heaters to A. Some households that require more or less hot water, I'll set to between A and B for more use, and between low and A for less. If you have to set the water heater to B or higher for hot water, there's usually an issue with the water heater or the tank is undersized for the application. Thanks for the great point! Take Care!
Supposedly there is a way to get the thermostat to un-brick from the high temperature shutdown (ECO) fault. Commenters in the video have had success, can't confirm myself. Service manuals, of course, will tell you to replace the whole thermostat / gas valve assembly. th-cam.com/video/yo5e6WWFdOM/w-d-xo.html
Something I discovered on another video is that some of those Thermopile connections to the hot water tank actually have a flap you can open and test the voltage while it is still connected to the hot water tank! I checked mine and it has it. Same style as the one in your video.
𝗔𝗺𝗮𝘇𝗼𝗻 𝗔𝗳𝗳𝗶𝗹𝗶𝗮𝘁𝗲 𝗟𝗶𝗻𝗸𝘀 Thermopile 100112328: geni.us/9ho3eVo Thermopile Assembly 100112330: geni.us/n6FHWNE Multimeter: geni.us/6064h Disclosure: Pros DIY is an Amazon Associate. We earn a small commission from qualifying purchases through our affiliate links at no additional cost to you.
I try to start by pressing and holding in the black button and pressing starter button. As long as I hold in the black button the light keeps flashing. Let off and the the red light slowly goes out. I believe this video will solve the issue.
What temperature do you have the control valve set to? Does the main burner fire up? If you've changed the dip tube and control valve, the only issues I can think of are the control valve not set high enough or faulty. Less common is a cross connection somewhere, but that usually gives you warm water on the cold water supply lines.
Low voltage can be caused by a few things but a faulty thermopile is almost always the cause. A partially clogged pilot tube, damaged wiring, or thermopile incorrectly installed can also cause low voltage. This can be inspected by looking through the sight glass to inspect the pilot flame. It is most likely going to require a new thermopile though. 180mV is very low. This video may help with the replacement. th-cam.com/video/1VIvEqVbt14/w-d-xo.html Good luck on your repair and thanks for the question!
@@PROSDIY thanks so much for reply. I've got the new thermopile. I'm the trouble I'm having is that igniter sparks, bit flame doesn't catch. When I put a match, it catches fine (so I know gas is coming) but not with igniter. Any idea what I'm doing wrong?
Sounds like either the spark isn't strong enough or that it is jumping in an incorrect spot. Check the igniter wire for any breaks or worn insulation that can cause the spark to short circuit, or not reach the pilot assembly. Check where the spark jumps to the pilot assembly. It is very common for carbon to build up at this location. Use some fine sandpaper to shine up the area on the pilot assembly where the spark jumps to light the pilot. Shining up this area reduces the resistance for the spark to jump, resulting in a stronger, brighter spark. Good luck! Let me know how it goes. Thanks! Just another thought, when lighting make sure you click the iginter multiple times in short succession immediately after depressing the control knob. This will give you a best chance of it lighting.
@@PROSDIY thanks so much for reply. Currently the spark jumps to the thermopile. Is that where it should be jumping to? Or should it be jumping to the pilot? I've checked the igniter wire for continuity and it seems fine.
I think you found the problem. It's normally supposed to be jumping to the pilot hood. That's the angled metal piece on the end of the pilot. It directs the pilot flame into the thermopile. The pilot hood should be shiny metal to reduce the resistance for the spark to jump. It may need to be sanded with some fine grit sandpaper. The igniter may have been bent closer to the thermopile as well, which come cause this issue. Hope this helps
My multimeter starts to read the mv climbs up to about 200 then my screen just displays the number one with no other zeros on the screen does anyone know why
Hello and thanks for the video! When testing my thermopile, I get up to 650mVDC, then it goes OL. Does that mean it's bad? I did see the 4 blinking lights last week, but was able to re-ignite. Now, I'm not able to keep the pilot light lit, no status light. Whatcha think??
Hi Joel, 650mVDC is a great reading for the thermopile, so we can rule that out. If it is reading OL on the voltage test, this usually means that the range on the multimeter is set to low. OL indicts overloaded or out of range in the voltage mode. 4 blinks can indicate overheat failure. I would check to see if the thermal switch is tripped and try resetting and relight. If that all checks out, I'd replace the control valve. Please follow the steps in this video before replacing the control valve. th-cam.com/video/_XYCVgsPu1U/w-d-xo.html Thanks for the great question! Good Luck!
do anybody know if there is a method to test one of these honeywell gas valves on bench...can i feed 700mv to the thermopile wires and test?..the gas valve i have is untested unknown wirking condition.
THE PROBLEM with this (erudite) video is that a test with results WELL within parameters is Often invalid, and thermopile replacement results in an immediate repair. It's Big Time frustrating to go through a really intelligent and methodical troubleshooting procedure that yields Nothing, only to find that the st00pidest action is the one that does the job. This from an HVAC/appliance repair hack AND a multicertified professional with decades of experience.
Pieces of crap are this new water heaters. I’m a handyman and work in a big apartment complex. I had replaced probably about 90 water heaters and all are garbage. Ones in a while you get one that works okay for couple years but so many problems with this junk water heaters same with the AO smith all of them with this stupid fancy gas valve to many stupid sensors. The mechanical ones are the best old style
Were you able to get a voltage reading? and if so what was the reading? This will help me get a better understanding of what is going on with the water heater. The other thing is, are we dealing with a thermopile as seen in this video? or a thermocouple? Thanks for the question
I'd check the thermopile voltage to see if it falls into spec. From what you're saying I'd bet it's a faulty thermopile though. Hope this gets you in the right direction. Thanks!
Simple straight forward and no stupid 45 second music introduction for nothing.
5 stars man
Straight to the point. That’s what I’m talking about. In less than a minute problem, troubleshoot, and solution. You are the man brotha. Awesome video.
Thank you! Cheers!
This is very helpful. Straight forward. I sent it to my mom who doesnt understand English and she still was able to follow. Big thanks bro!
Thanks for sharing. I have this same exact thermostat/ flame controller. Thermopile got to just under 650 mV, but took forever. I had no blinking light at all. No code provided for zero light flashes. Apparently if it takes too long to reach whatever the minimum voltage is, unit shuts down. I believe this to be true, no literature. So I get a new controller and also order a thermopile. Put in new controller first only because thermopile was still a day out. Exact same problem. Replacing controller requires a tank drain (IMO anyways). Got new thermopile, pilot and and igniter unit (3 in one unit) next day. Install new thermopile and instantly problem is fixed. Try thermopile replacement if your pilot works, you have no blinking light and if you can measure the voltage but it takes too long. Even if you can’t measure voltage I would try thermopile first so long as the pilot works. You will probably need a new compression fitting since the 3 in 1 unit came with none, the controller did so I lucked out there. Hope this helps somebody. Think all if this over and don’t try to bypass safety features, a lot of scary stupid vids out there. Cold showers = no fun!!
Where were you able to find part numbers? I cant find any parts locator online like you can for appliances. Everything refers me over to plumbers or washer n dryers
@@RAM-VIC
Biker Vic,
It’s been a while and I don’t recall exactly how I got the numbers. I bet I looked it up via the controller manual online or something. However I am attaching a pic of what I used. I installed the assembly (pile, igniter and all) and it fixed the issue. Later I bought just the thermopile and put it together with the older parts as a spare assembly unit. Make sure you have the same controller or you’ll need to do more research. Attached is some great info. I bought my parts from an online retailer that sounds a lot like Ramazon (lol). Sorry but I don’t recall exactly how I got there. A lot of good info on the retailer site via other folks questions and answers. Hope the attached pics help. Well… I guess I can’t attach. So here is what I have and used. Gas control unit is WV8840B1158. The thermopile is Reliance Water Heater CO 100112328 21" Thermopile Assembly. The entire ignitor, thermopile and all is Reliance Water Heater 9007876 Gas Thermopile Assembly.
Dave
Thanks for the info mine only got to 625 before it maxed out so I ordered a new thermopile hopefully it will fix the problem
@@jimgoliver8598 It most likely will and good luck to you! I mean it is just the part that is expected to wear out.
Now. That's a good video. Short to the point and very well spoken and explained. Used it on site today and am glad u posted it!
Awesome job! It is hard to find intelligent people that can speak their mind that is easily comprehensive
Excellent video! Complete, yet so concise! My thermopile showed no voltage at the controller due to a tripped thermal cutoff (wired in series with thermopile) interrupting the circuit. Pressed the tiny black button to reset, tested voltage again, all good! Re-lighted, blinks, all is well! Set temp, and the familiar big long belching sound as the main burner lights all around means hot shower tonight! Thanks!
Awesome! Nice job on your diagnosis!
Another great video. I really like how concise, but detailed your videos are. Keep up the good work.
Thanks Joe!
straight and to the point. by far the best video I've seen...for now on i check you first subscribed without second thought
Thanks for the positive feedback and sub Ken! Take care!
You are the best man I am a hvac student and this helped me a lot I’m going to watch it again and again
Thank you! Good luck on your HVAC career. Cheers!
First of all thank you. Your videos and detailed comments have been most helpful so far.
My issue is the pilot lights but there is no status light. The longest I have waited is a little over two minutes. Should I wait longer?
Back story: I found after I was away for 5 hours when I returned home I found I left the water running in my bathroom sink- not fully on but more than a trickle. Later that night I was washing my face and realized the water was cold and it must have ran out but checked on the tank anyway. There was no status light blinking as there should be so I just turned the knob to off and figured I would restart it. I did no check to see if the pilot was on when I just turned it to off... and thought it would be an easy start.. and I hadn't been able to get a status light since. I've read the comments of similar situations on your other videos. I took the thermopile out and cleaned it off and scrubbed with sand paper. The TCO button on mine is white and appears to be out but I press it and it doesn't budge. I did the voltage test and it passed maxing out at 730mV. I did not do the connect the two red wire test. My only thought now is that it's the gas valve control. Is this in line with my tank running a lot while I left the water on and finding it with no status light? Any suggestions or other troubleshoot ideas are appreciated.
The only other issues I've had is it go out 3 months ago and had the 4 blink status which I was able to reset. I don't know the age of the unit as I bought my place two years ago and therefore most likely not under warranty.
Again, Thank you!
HI Danek, Thank you for the detailed information.
Just to rule out the TCO, I would connect the 2 red wires together and relight. The 730mV is excellent, so we can rule out the thermopile. I do believe you will end up being correct with it being a faulty gas control. Since you've witnessed a 4 blink code in the past, I would suspect the gas control.
To answer the questions:
*"The longest I have waited is a little over two minutes. Should I wait longer?"*
2 minutes is plenty and the thermopile would have reached max voltage.
*"Is this in line with my tank running a lot while I left the water on and finding it with no status light?"*
This will cause the tank to fire/run for long periods. This usually causes the TCO to trip or the gas controls temperature sensor to trip, causing the pilot flame to go out.
I would bypass the TCO to rule that out. If that doesn't resolve the issue, I'd replace the gas control valve. Hopefully this gets you in the right direction. Let me know how it goes. Best of luck!
@@PROSDIY Update: I was able to change the control switch and I have hot water again!!!.... Thanks to this video and having my dad on speed dial.
@@danektorrey9497 I'm glad you have hot water again and the video helped you out. Thank you so much for the very generous donation! Made my day! 😃. Take care!
Thanks for sharing your knowledge on testing Thermopile functionality as manifested in the voltage
Thank you for making this. Your video is the only one I've seen so far for this type of unit. Exactly like mine and I couldn't figure how to test the thermal. Thumbs up. Good vid and to the point!
Thank you Chris! Cheers!
Exactly what I was looking for. To the point, and answered the question I had: What’s the minimum MV required to keep the pilot light on.
Great video and very helpful! Thanks for taking the time to create the content!!
Very helpful, thank you. Mine was 650, so it's another problem with pilot light failure.
We're you only able to keep the pilot light going by holding down on the button?
GREAT STRAIGHT FORWARD VIDEO Ooops caps were locked. Great vid and accurate info.
Thanks for this video mine is reading around 500mv will search for a replacement
Excellent presentation. Very helpful. What kind of camera did you use.
Thank you! It was either my phone (Samsung Galaxy S8) or a Canon EOS Rebel SL2. I was using both at the time of filming this. I have since upgraded to the Panasonic GH5.
Nice video and clear view of everything.
Holy shit a water heater with the gas line hard piped. Move this channel up your list folks. If I see flex lines on a water heater, water or gas, I keep it moving.actually did this test once and kept getting. Good reading.Even though when I took it apart the wires were burnt out and pretty much crumpled when I remove the assembly:.
This is awesome. Apparently I have a bad pilot valve. No clicking on pilot, but audible clicking on burner. I guess I'm gonna try and replace the valve assembly?
Pat, Thanks for the very informative and instructional videos! I installed my Whirlpool 40 gal 40k BTU gas water heater 10 yrs ago and it has worked without a problem until just last week. The water was cold so I relite the pilot and it worked for a couple days. It has the Honeywell valve with status light which shows working normally (1 light every 3 seconds). It went out again so I relite it and again it worked for a couple days. I cleaned the vents the first time but noticed the little button between the contacts on the temp switch is stuck hard and won’t depress at all. But since the water heater relites I guess it’s closed.
My question is: I can afford a new water heater (thinking of an A. O. Smith from Lowe’s this time) because of this ones age, but if you think I should just replace the thermopile, I will.
Your expert opinion would be appreciated! Thank you!
Thanks for the question and detailed information. Did you end up doing a voltage test on the thermopile to determine if it was weak? The TCO button will be "stuck hard" if it is functioning properly, so we can rule that out.
With regards to the replacement, it would be your call. I tell my clients to budget for a replacement when the tank is 10 years old, and that most newer residential tanks last between 12-15 years. This is dependent on usage, quality of water heater, and quality of the water. Personally I would change the themopile if that's causing the fault. I have an unfinished basement and there's someone usually always home at my residence though. If your home will be vacant for weeks at a time, I'd lean more towards tank replacement. Then you wouldn't have to worry as much if it were to spring a leak.Hopefully this info helps you make your decision. Thanks!
Pros DIY No I haven’t checked the thermopile voltage yet because my old trusty bought from PX Sperry multimeter (I’m retired Military) doesn’t do millivolts. My friend has a Fluke that will, so I’ll borrow his this weekend and check both the TCO and the thermopile. I’ve heard above 350 is good but you stated 650+ would be the better numbers to determine replacement of the thermopile. I’ll get back with you after I check.
As for the water quality - good here in my area of Durham NC, water heater - whirlpool N4OS61-403 seemed a better than average (at the time 2009), and lastly its in our garage plus I’m always home (we watch our granddaughters) so if it leaks very little harm done.
Unfortunately I’ve never changed the Anode rod nor done the recommended flushing (lazy I guess argggg). 3 adults in the house shower every couple days so relatively low consumption. I gave you the model number of my old one: could you please direct me to a good and correct thermopile or pilot and thermopile kit?
If I go with a new one, I’m considering the AO SMITH brand from Lowe’s and would appreciate your expert opinion: G9-S4040NVR, or G12-S4040NVR, or a 50 gal version (I like long hot showers) with a 9 yr but must be a short. Mine is currently on a 7” high wooden platform which I assume is NC requirement?
In the new AI Smith, I wish the anodes were better and glass lined tank, but they are what they are. Anyway, THANK YOU VERY MUCH for any further guidance you can help me with!
@@MRrwmac The voltage test will be very useful and get you in the right direction. Most gas controls will run on as little as 350mV but they should read in the 600mV plus range.
Your pilot assembly is part #6911143: amzn.to/2JjQhml
Generic water heater thermopiles will work on your model: amzn.to/2D8QTs8
I always recommend a higher capacity tank, like the 50 US gallon. They tend to last longer because they aren't being overworked. The 30-40 gallon tanks are more likely to become depleted (run cold) from time to time. This depletion cycle is very hard on a tank, and can cause them to fail prematurely. A.O. Smith, and Bradford White are my trusted brands. I'm not sure if the 7" platform is a requirement in your jurisdiction. I would assume not, and that it was a personal preference. I would double check with a local contractor though. Let me know what you decide and if your get the voltage reading. Best of Luck!
I install and repair water heaters. If you're considering a new one only buy a Bradford White. Btw, AO smith makes whirlpool and a few others. They're exactly the same and they have a problem with burners tearing.
Bradford White is the only way to go
Yet another fantastic video. Thanks
Great video....detailed and right to the point...thanks
Hey was just wondering what meter you are using in the video. The link you have up is for another meter. I'm having a hard time finding a meter that will go up to the 700 millivolt range.
I'm going to need to get a multimeter and do this test. I also noticed I've got quite the drip going when I removed my manifold cover. I'm guessing that's a pretty bad thing? lol
Make sure that your multimeter has a microvolt range of at least 1000. Some don't--limited to 400mV or so which precludes application of this test.
My temperature cutoff switch keeps tripping! But the controller is giving the error code for thermopile voltage low? Could a bad thermopile cause this?
Getting ready to work on AO Smith Gas Water Heater. GVR 50 300. The pilot lights and I hold down temp control for light blink or even past 2 minutes.
I am assuming what I am seeing on Amazon is fine. It is saying it's an upgrade thermopile system for harness and igniter replacement. Not sure. I know I can do this easily with your video. Just need to know what part on Amazon I should order. Have no problem doing what you did in the video I watched on replacing the assembly. I don't have a way to test to see if it's just thermopile. So if you can tell me what link to order the right set up on Amazon. That would be helpful. If it doesn't work I can always return.
hi...if i want to test without thermopile connected can i wire a 1.5v battery to the red whitecwires to test or is that too many volts
My pilot light lights rt up and all the control valve heat positions work good
Do the status lights got bad ?
Everything in my water heater works fine except there isn’t any flashes come on?
Thank you in advance
I would say that the LED has gone bad or the circuit that controls it. I've seen that happen a few times before. If everything else is working, it can be ignored.
Thanks for the question!
Awesome video. Very informative.
Plugged pilot tube? I have a reliance HW heater Honeywell gas control in a drip pan ... trying to be proactive and drain the tank apparently was a bad idea. I had to unscrew the nylon spickot - bib to get anything to come out. Finally it did. The pan has a drain so I let it drain ... BAD IDEA it seems. I didn't recognize it breathes from underneath. no spark whatsoever. .. I hope the water in the pan didn't short some circuit board out. If it is simply water and a little crud where it ought not be, I would be happy but ...
Any ideas before replacing stuff?
Thank You for information and advice 😊
Thanks for the great explanation
What about Honeywell, changed controller, still getting pilot to turn on but not stay on and no blinking from status light.... did thermal pile test and no reading at all at 2000m DC, any ideas or advice would be appreciated!
Succinct and helpful. Now at least I know the thermopile isn't the source of my problem.
Thanks Larry! My water heater trouble shooting video may be helpful as well: th-cam.com/video/_XYCVgsPu1U/w-d-xo.html
Hope you get the problem resolved. Cheers!
My gas control valve looks exactly like your but I don't have the reset switch.
My pilot lights easily sometimes on the first pop of the piezo. The voltage on the thermopile sometimes reaches as high as 780 mv but there's never any light on the status light, and when I release the pilot button, the fire immediately goes out. Incidentally, the glass vial cutoff switch is intact.
What seems to be my problem?
Superior clear and short video! Hopefully more suppose on no hot water but thermopile is ok, in case
Pat, 500mv. BUT I checked it a bit differently than you described in your video. Why you may ask: Because my thumb gets tired - haha. Just kidding. I’ll explain in a minute
I left the temp control at hot but did the check when the burner had been off for 20 minutes. Only the pilot was lit. I pulled the two wire connector from the valve controller (as you did) and connected the red on the fluke to the red wire (which goes directly to the thermopile) and black (on the fluke) to the white wire (which is the other color on my WH) that comes from the thermal switch to the thermocouple. I did it that way to give me a more accurate reading of how much voltage the thermopile was producing in the normal constant on pilot condition. Would doing it that way give me a correct reading?
If so, and if (as you said) the thermal switch is working correctly (closed), why is the pilot going out every 3-4 days?
Thank you very much Pat.
I think I'm following. Were you testing the thermopile's voltage without having to hold down the control knob? This is called a closed circuit voltage test. The test in the video is an open circuit voltage test. They both will work but the closed circuit voltage test will read slightly lower as the gas controls circuitry will draw some voltage. 500mV would be acceptable for a closed circuit test. Since both the thermopile and thermal switch are passing their tests, I would think it would be a fault with the gas control valve. Commonly the temperature sensor in these valves can fail. They will usually fail at first under higher hot water consumption, and will happen more frequently over time. You can keep a log of when the tank fails and determine if it is happening under high hot water consumption. e.g. filling a bathtub, multiple showers back to back, loads of laundry. If you were a client of mine and the thermal switch and thermopile tests pass, I'd replace the gas control or install a new water heater, depending on age of tank and budget. Thanks for the update!
Pros DIY Well Pat, I think your HWH whisperer mode kicked in on this one because it seems from the testing you recommended (that’s why I hadn’t replied for two weeks) it does sometimes cut the HWH off after heavy use. Instead of replacing parts (I’ll save the $70 totals to rent the pickup from Lowe’s) I’ll get an AO SMITH from Lowe’s (budget is not a huge restriction and seems well spent for another 13+ years). Hope it’s ok to transport on its side??
I’m thinking Signature Select model (either 40 or 50 gal) depending on size. Those models come with either the 9 or 12 year warranty. Do you think the longer warranty is actually worth it (at least as an indicator or quality in the build)?
BTW, I drained the tank today (first in its 13 year life, oops) since it shut off anyway. Even after shooting the cold in after empty to mix up sediment, I had very very little white scale purged outta all.
Anyway, I very much would appreciate your thoughts now that you have a little more info.
@@MRrwmac Sounds like a solid decision. Residential tanks will be safe to transport on their side and won't void warranty. Just avoid large bumps and potholes. If you have to make a choice between getting the 12 year warranty and a larger capacity tank, I would always choose larger capacity. The larger capacity tanks (50 gallon+) tend to last longer. In my experience the difference in build quality between 9-12 year is negligible. You are just paying extra in the case it has to be repaired in those 3 additional years. It's important to note what the warranty covers too. Currently 6 year warranty tank includes 6 years tank and parts, 1 year labor. 9 year tank includes 9 years tank and parts, 2 years labor. 12 year warranty tank 12 years tank and parts, 3 years labor. In the end it would be your decision in what you believe the extra 3 years is worth. Personally I would never get the extended warranty, but I also get discounted parts and can repair it myself. Hope this helps in your decision. All the Best!
nice video. but whats the thermo switch & temperature cutoff switch?
Hi Mike, The thermal or temperature cutoff switch is a device with is connected to the front of the burner door which trips (cuts off gas to the control valve) if the water heater exceeds safe operating temperature. Some of them are manually resettable. Please see this video: th-cam.com/video/_XYCVgsPu1U/w-d-xo.html at the 1:45 mark it helps explain the device. Thanks for the question! Take Care!
Excellent video!
Thanks Loretta!
Could I do the test with the thermopile on the circuit?
Hey bud I know this video is old but I would love some help. I tested the thermopile just now and after 550 it climbs super slow. Would you still consider that a good thermopile? Is so what else could be making me have yo reignite the pilot every couple weeks
So, what if the pilot won't light? Can that still mean it's the thermopile? It doesn't look like I am getting spark at all.
Oh yeah... Nice ride by the way.
I heard alot of problems on that electric Honeywell there is from turning it up to high. Flaw in the design. Guy said keep it low or high temp shutdown and dominoes from there. Cannot confirm this is true but I reset and fired up one three times in a month then no blink. Low or A are best setting from what I understand
Hi Brandon, You're absolutely correct. These water heaters work best at a lower setting. No higher than 140°F. I personally set installed water heaters to A. Some households that require more or less hot water, I'll set to between A and B for more use, and between low and A for less. If you have to set the water heater to B or higher for hot water, there's usually an issue with the water heater or the tank is undersized for the application. Thanks for the great point! Take Care!
Supposedly there is a way to get the thermostat to un-brick from the high temperature shutdown (ECO) fault. Commenters in the video have had success, can't confirm myself. Service manuals, of course, will tell you to replace the whole thermostat / gas valve assembly. th-cam.com/video/yo5e6WWFdOM/w-d-xo.html
Something I discovered on another video is that some of those Thermopile connections to the hot water tank actually have a flap you can open and test the voltage while it is still connected to the hot water tank! I checked mine and it has it. Same style as the one in your video.
𝗔𝗺𝗮𝘇𝗼𝗻 𝗔𝗳𝗳𝗶𝗹𝗶𝗮𝘁𝗲 𝗟𝗶𝗻𝗸𝘀
Thermopile 100112328: geni.us/9ho3eVo
Thermopile Assembly 100112330: geni.us/n6FHWNE
Multimeter: geni.us/6064h
Disclosure: Pros DIY is an Amazon Associate. We earn a small commission from qualifying purchases through our affiliate links at no additional cost to you.
I replaced the thermopile with a brand new one and I get 2-6 millivolts before it instantly drops to zero, any suggestions?
I HAVE NO FLASHES FROM THE LED , THE LED IS ALWAYS OFF, IS THAT A THERMOPILE PROBLEM ?
I try to start by pressing and holding in the black button and pressing starter button. As long as I hold in the black button the light keeps flashing. Let off and the the red light slowly goes out. I believe this video will solve the issue.
Thanks Brotha
I appreciate you
Very very good
My gas water heater only gets warm and not hot, I have replaced the dip tube and thermostat control, please help
What temperature do you have the control valve set to? Does the main burner fire up? If you've changed the dip tube and control valve, the only issues I can think of are the control valve not set high enough or faulty. Less common is a cross connection somewhere, but that usually gives you warm water on the cold water supply lines.
Awesome job thank you so much
Hi. My voltage got only up to 180 millivolts, does that the thermocouple is bad?
Low voltage can be caused by a few things but a faulty thermopile is almost always the cause. A partially clogged pilot tube, damaged wiring, or thermopile incorrectly installed can also cause low voltage. This can be inspected by looking through the sight glass to inspect the pilot flame. It is most likely going to require a new thermopile though. 180mV is very low. This video may help with the replacement. th-cam.com/video/1VIvEqVbt14/w-d-xo.html
Good luck on your repair and thanks for the question!
@@PROSDIY thanks so much for reply. I've got the new thermopile. I'm the trouble I'm having is that igniter sparks, bit flame doesn't catch. When I put a match, it catches fine (so I know gas is coming) but not with igniter. Any idea what I'm doing wrong?
Sounds like either the spark isn't strong enough or that it is jumping in an incorrect spot.
Check the igniter wire for any breaks or worn insulation that can cause the spark to short circuit, or not reach the pilot assembly. Check where the spark jumps to the pilot assembly. It is very common for carbon to build up at this location. Use some fine sandpaper to shine up the area on the pilot assembly where the spark jumps to light the pilot. Shining up this area reduces the resistance for the spark to jump, resulting in a stronger, brighter spark.
Good luck! Let me know how it goes. Thanks!
Just another thought, when lighting make sure you click the iginter multiple times in short succession immediately after depressing the control knob. This will give you a best chance of it lighting.
@@PROSDIY thanks so much for reply. Currently the spark jumps to the thermopile. Is that where it should be jumping to? Or should it be jumping to the pilot?
I've checked the igniter wire for continuity and it seems fine.
I think you found the problem. It's normally supposed to be jumping to the pilot hood. That's the angled metal piece on the end of the pilot. It directs the pilot flame into the thermopile. The pilot hood should be shiny metal to reduce the resistance for the spark to jump. It may need to be sanded with some fine grit sandpaper. The igniter may have been bent closer to the thermopile as well, which come cause this issue. Hope this helps
My multimeter starts to read the mv climbs up to about 200 then my screen just displays the number one with no other zeros on the screen does anyone know why
Thanks
Hello and thanks for the video!
When testing my thermopile, I get up to 650mVDC, then it goes OL. Does that mean it's bad? I did see the 4 blinking lights last week, but was able to re-ignite. Now, I'm not able to keep the pilot light lit, no status light. Whatcha think??
Hi Joel, 650mVDC is a great reading for the thermopile, so we can rule that out. If it is reading OL on the voltage test, this usually means that the range on the multimeter is set to low. OL indicts overloaded or out of range in the voltage mode. 4 blinks can indicate overheat failure. I would check to see if the thermal switch is tripped and try resetting and relight. If that all checks out, I'd replace the control valve. Please follow the steps in this video before replacing the control valve. th-cam.com/video/_XYCVgsPu1U/w-d-xo.html
Thanks for the great question! Good Luck!
EXCELLENT
do anybody know if there is a method to test one of these honeywell gas valves on bench...can i feed 700mv to the thermopile wires and test?..the gas valve i have is untested unknown wirking condition.
Much onliged
Great troubleshooting thats not in the manual.
Mine read well over 900
THE PROBLEM with this (erudite) video is that a test with results WELL within parameters is Often invalid, and thermopile replacement results in an immediate repair.
It's Big Time frustrating to go through a really intelligent and methodical troubleshooting procedure that yields Nothing, only to find that the st00pidest action is the one that does the job. This from an HVAC/appliance repair hack AND a multicertified professional with decades of experience.
Thermocouplepile is single wire...how multimeter?
Machine a lavé
Nice motorcycle, what LGBTQ biker club do you belong to?
Pieces of crap are this new water heaters. I’m a handyman and work in a big apartment complex. I had replaced probably about 90 water heaters and all are garbage. Ones in a while you get one that works okay for couple years but so many problems with this junk water heaters same with the AO smith all of them with this stupid fancy gas valve to many stupid sensors. The mechanical ones are the best old style
Mine goes out once a week or so thermocoupler??
Were you able to get a voltage reading? and if so what was the reading? This will help me get a better understanding of what is going on with the water heater. The other thing is, are we dealing with a thermopile as seen in this video? or a thermocouple? Thanks for the question
Pros DIY looks like the same setup its a 3 year old whirlpool water heater
I'd check the thermopile voltage to see if it falls into spec. From what you're saying I'd bet it's a faulty thermopile though. Hope this gets you in the right direction. Thanks!
Thanks