You Sir, are the Bob Ross of electronics. I have a basic understanding of this stuff, and watch your videos and become hypnotized! Not to mention learn a thing or two now and again. Great videos man.
Sounds like quite an interesting project you've got going here. I think you'd enjoy measuring the generation efficiency of this little turbine, all you need is a flow meter and a home built manometer (literally a piece of transparent hose)
(If no-one has said that yet) Maybe the circuit is also used in some rechargeable "crank-up" LED flashlights that are also chargeable via 5V. That would maybe explain the LiPo charger IC
There must be a reason why most hydro generators are based at the bottom of a dam rather than the top. I'd bet you'll generate more electricity with the device at the bottom of a long pipe, with a short outfall. As a side note Edinburgh is planning to install turbines on it's fresh water wipes. Water comes from high up in the borders and is gravity fed in to the city.
The water level in the retained pool may experience seasonal drops. Putting the turbines at the bottom increases the likelihood you'll have sufficient water pressure to turn the turbines.
Old farmer here, well dad was and I grew up on one, we used to use funnels for filling the tractors and other gas driven equipment, perhaps a good old funnel hooked to your turbine.
Waterwheel, 6 feet diameter, geared from shaft to alternator. Runs 'Backwards' as the water enters below 9pm on the wheel. Works a treat for anything greater than 2 foot fall. For gears I just used cogs and chain from a pushbike.
There are powered faucets/flush valves that use these kinds of devices to keep themselves charged so you don't need batteries of a power supply. Makes a lot of sense in that application.
as the pipe gets longer you will have more head loss (more drop of pressure), you have to calculate your head loss and see whether or not the head loss causes excessive drop in pressure. you can also choose your pipes as big as possible with smoother finish inside the pipe to reduce the head loss.
Legislation where I live specifically forbids the installation of energy harvesting systems on a properties municipal water supply. Pretty steep fines too. And also forbids using the telephone lines power for anything other than a phone, tiny as that power supply is.
That's probably to stop people connecting their incoming water supply to a turbine and basically just flushing thousands of gallons of water down the drain. The telephone line can provide a modest amount of power, but that puts extra load on the exchange. No problem if just a few people were doing it, but if there were commercial nightlights that plugged into the phone socket then it could potentially overload the supplies in the exchanges if they were used en-masse. If you connected a small turbine in line with your incoming supply that only ran when you actually used water it would not be an issue. Your water consumption wouldn't change. If anything it might go down a bit due to the reduction in pressure caused by the turbine.
CLIVE!!! Oh no, you did not say that. Water is sold by volume not pressure. If it were sold by pressure you could flow water into your house via a 6' pipe and the pressure would be next to nothing.
No usage would change little. When you need a gallon of water you need a gallon of water. For most applications a specific volume of water is specified. A tub full, A washing machine full, a bucket full, etc. Only timed usage would result in less water. So if you had a water meter shut-off to water the lawn, One that used water flow to power it, usage would not change. If you have an electric timer to turn the water on and off, then the usage would drop. The difference would be time. The reason for the "no turbine" rule is it takes power to run a turbine. So the water-source would have to add the power needed to turn the turbine to what ever is required to simply pump the water to the house. More power means more costs, less profits. Then we get into the economy of scale thing.
You have probably already learned this from posts below that I'm too lazy to read or from practical experience at your brother's place, but here goes; It is pressure, not velocity that turns the turbine. put the turbine as low as possible and the inlet as high as possible. the pressure on the turbine will be equal to the mass of the water in the vertical drop times the area of the turbine inlet. reduce the pressure by the turbulence in the hose. Big straight pipe = low turbulence. skinny twisted hose = high turbulence.
Alberto Knox Not quite. What you want is maximum mass flow rate. Mass flow rate is determined by the density, cross sectional area, and velocity of the fluid. However, high pressure is very important to getting high velocity, as the two are related. But it is the velocity that will ultimately get you a higher power output from a turbine.
Yes. You would use a wide pipe for most of the way, then put a nozzle at the bottom, right before the turbine, to achieve the high velocity. The high speed water will have a large kinetic energy, which will make the turbine blades spin VERY fast (the faster the blades spin, the higher the power output, that's what we want here)
Power is the product of force and displacement, just like in electricity where volts (pressure/force) and amps (displacement/velocity) are multiplied to yield Watts (power). reducing the size of the tube increases velocity at the cost of pressure. It doesn't increase the amount of power a system holds. A properly sized turbine and generator will extract the power from the flow you have. The amount of power will be dependant on the rate of flow (often called "Q") and and the height of the column of water above the pump (called "Head" in this application). A slow turning turbine can generate a lot of power if geared correctly.
In this specific case, it takes little force to get the turbine spinning, so you really do want to jack up the speed a fair bit if possible. The way that the turbine generates electricity is by changing the magnetic field that the coils are in. Getting the blades to spin faster (and therefore oscillating the magnetic field with great frequency) will make the voltage output higher. The resistance in the coil is a constant, so you would also get a higher amperage, and therefore higher power output. In this case, the limit on the speed of the blades is the speed of the water, and this limit is reached with a significant force caused by the water. The force need to get such a tiny turbine spinning is small enough that you could give up most of the water pressure for speed, and still get the blades spinning as fast as the water is moving. A bigger turbine would take more force to get spinning, but at the same time will give a higher voltage output for a given rate of rotation. If you had a bigger turbine, then you would want to maintain a higher pressure so that it will reach the speed of the water. Because we are talking about a type of electric generator, the rotation rate of the motor shaft is was directly affects the power output. The force only matters insofar that it is needed to get a high rotation rate.
I've seen illuminated shower heads sold recently at Lidl (I think) that used the water flow to power its LEDs. My brother lives near a fairly steep river and has been thinking about doing something on a larger scale, probably a kilowatt. As mentioned, there's not a lot out there on hydro-generation and I'm sure there are many others that live next to fast flowing rivers. For example, eBay is flooded with solar panels, wind turbines and grid tie inverters, but very little on hydro-generators, at least not larger 1kW+ kits where you can simply attach a large pipe to and from.
I think the higher power hydro generators require a modest amount of structure to hold back against the resistance of the water. That may limit their appeal to ebay type purchasers.
Having a long pipe after the turbine is fine, you are essentially turning a pelton turbine into a Francis type turbine. The problem is you need to limit the length of pipe after the turbine as too much length pulls too high a vacuum at the turbine blades and you begin to get cavitation which decreases efficiency and causes damage to the turbine blades.
Take a bunch of those and add a blade from a drone. During the summer when it hot in your home use a square box fan for the air flow. The efficiency may not be that great depending how much AC power the fan drains
i have no background or experience in this sorta thing but i wager the best thing to do re: waterfall would be to put a pipe with a filtered inlet (enough to prevent sticks and whatnot from getting in) at the highest point you can in the riverbed and then run it to the lowest point you can down the river and put the turbine there with a union so you can remove it to clear the pipe if you need to (or replace the turbine i guess). i don't think putting it directly in the waterfall would create a consistent enough pressure, but with the length and diameter of the pipe you can manage the maximum flow and also have the pipe act as a flow regulator so if the output of the river fluctuates the slack can be taken up in the pipe
Hi, one application for this type of unit is I believe in a domestic combi boiler, so that when any hot water demand is initiated, the incoming flow of cold water from the main operates the turbine as a generator to send a signal to the control PCB and initiate the ignition sequence. Such a unit failed in our boiler resulting in no DHW for two weeks whilst a replacement was sourced! Excellent videos, many thanks for all your hard input. Is there any chance of doing one on those socket outlet testers?
If there was a battery connected, I wonder if the circuit would keep it charged until the turbine stopped then use the battery to keep the 5v output going? That would make sense if the circuit was used with a wind-driven turbine which might be more gusty than a water-driven one.
There's another video here on TH-cam somewhere where the guy has a small waterfall on his property and is using the 12V version of this to light up the pond at the bottom, he has goldfish in it and the led lights attract the bugs to the fish! He said that his one lasted a year running non stop! It might not be much energy but I think that it's paid itself over the year.. maybe if he opened it at the 6 month mark and cleaned it out, it might have run longer on that dirty water.. that 5V one isn't that good... The unregulated ones apparently go up to 80V, just needs an MPPT Charge Controller to make the most out of it!
Flow. Water pressure is not the driving metric. When the tap is closed there is full pressure but no generation. If you open the tap a small amount the pressure will be high but still not much power due to flow restrictions. I assume you mean with unrestricted full pipe diameter flow rates? What are the flow rates required to achieve these outputs?
Bruce Clark I just got 6 of these and I know its only 220mah, yet 80v, what would you suggest to increase the amps even if you had to compromise volts, I was thinking about a circuit inverter, or a transformer with a secondary winding?
What you really want is to maximize flow rate. And although it is true that the flow rate into a pipe will equal the flow rate out, the pressure will be different at each end if there is a change in height between the two ends. The higher pressure will be at the lower end. If you then put a nozzle at the high pressure end (ie the one down stream from the waterfall) the water will reach a VERY high velocity and therefore high flow rate.
OK Clive, if you don't mind a rambling reply. I looked online for these and some advertise 5V or 12V and others just say 5,12,80V with no selection option. The ones with the multiple voltage say 10W at 80V and about 2.6W at 12V. For your waterfall you might be able to put a standard computer fan in a sewer pipe. There is a man who drives a hoverboard motor from a computer fan blade. The generator is at the top and driven by water flowing down the pipe by syphoning. I think if you rectified and waterproofed the computer fan it could drive some fairy lights. How long it lasts would be fun to find out. If you have a go I'd love to see if it works. Mark.
Clive why not consider a ram pump (look it up) to pump a small amount of water through a turbine. OK it would pulse but a man of your talents could sort that mate! Brilliant videos BTW!
GateKommand Given that the operation of the ram pump is really just tiny bursts of water, it might actually be an idea to do away with the water pumping ability and use the inertia of the water to instead thrust a spring loaded magnet through a coil to block the water flow on each cycle. But the bursts of water through a small turbine mounted next to the weighted valve would probably work too.
The nice thing about a hydraulic ram pump (besides its simplicity) is that it can pump water uphill quite a ways from a small head of pressure --- but it does that by throwing away 90% of the water flow through it. I think it would be best to mount the turbine for the best pressure and flow and run the power through a good gauge of wire to where you need it.
Instead of a long hose after the turbine you could put a long hose upstream. This is also done with hydraulic ram pumps (do a search here on YT). Putting this in your water mains would mean the pumps of the water company must work harder.
I've been into ram pumps for a long time. They do require the mass of water causing the percussive hammer effect for their operation, so I suppose it makes sense to have them at the bottom of a straight run of pipe. The issue with the river at my brothers house is that where it passes the incline isn't great except for the small waterfall that is the point ythat is most accesible and where the power would be nicest to have.
To expand on your idea. if you were to give the top of the hose a larger diameter to the bottom, the volume of water, and the speed it was flowing would surly increase to speed of its flow at the end of the hose. Or would it? Time to experiment!!! The extra weight of water must make a difference though.
so its pretty much a 3 phase brushless dc motor being used as a generator through a tri bridge of diodes. surprised it wasnt a standard brushed dc motor like the others though.
yes you need to build a venturi system you start with a diameter say 4 inches 100 mm then reduce the size of pipe in steps eg reduce the 100mm to an 80mm bore then to say 40mm each reduction increases the speed of the water as it goes down slope
Interesting that you are thinking about river power sources. Theres not a lot on the internet about the feasibility of this when you dont have a lot of head to work with. My property has a very fast flowing river running next to it, in spate it is quite fightening the amount of energy it contains. There is the remains of a sluice type affair where in the past they were taking power off a drop of about 1 or 2 feet via a small wall and outlet into a deep pool.. Looks like they were running some machinery in the shed, direct from a long driveshaft up on to the bank. Im not sure how kindly the environment agency will view me reconstructing this affair in the riverbed, its an SSSI zone. So have been trying to find alternative methods involving floating type turbines, some jerry built things are here on youtube . And some rather expensive solutions too from what I recall.
I was looking at some archimedes screw type turbines on TH-cam recently. Very low drop and quite low speed geared up to drive the generator. Is the area of the original sluice visible to the public? Sometimes it's easier to apologise later than it is to ask permission in the first place. I like the idea of low power generation just to run some decorative lighting.
bigclivedotcom Its not directly visible,its a steep riverbank, but is near the road running through our village . I wonder whether applying for permission is necessary or not, we own the land including the riverbank and the riverbed (half way across anyway) and there has been workings there in the past. Maybe using greenie type arguments might be enough to let it go.
omgffsification Well you can guarantee that if you ask for permission to do anything then a veritable legion of officials will turn up in hi-vis jackets and suits, then demand formal architectural drawings for even the simplest thing. Personally I'd just go ahead and experiment to your hearts content without asking permission to do so.
bigclivedotcom Yes. You are probably correct. Like night follows day. We have been through a whole series of hoops just getting the shed rebuilt on the riverbank. The environment agency wanted otter ladders!! They obviously thought we were digging foundations into the river or something and the otters would get stuck! God knows what they would think about an archimedes screw.
omgffsification I wonder if it's a repurposed device. Like a boating towable battery charger or even a boat troller (mini electric outboard engine). The river at my brothers house is ferocious after a storm, so anything that could ride out of the way of boulders seems a good idea.
You may consider on the outlet of the water to increase the diameter of the hose from small to large. Would create a natural vacuum creating the desired effect. Also, have I have a much better water turbine design I'd love to kick around with someone.
So did you ever get this to fruition? I would have used a ram pump with a pressure tank to act as a capacitor for smoothing out the pulses. Used the exhaust from the pump as a "fountain".
Why would you rectify 3 phase output from a generator? It's not like if you used these things you might need a bit of a boost in voltage to get it up a hill.
Based on another video of a water driven LED shower head that I saw on this channel I have ordered one of these units with the idea of attaching it to a kite for night time LED illumination sans batteries.
Would it be possible to power a water pub for a water fountain with one of these. Thinking about it, if you kick start the turbine for the pump , when the pump supports a constant flow of water thought the turbine, would it be able to substance it’s self???
I had a shower head that lit up with a turbine in it. It was similar but on a smaller scale. It didn't do a good job of keeping the water away from the electronics.
this is a response to look inside a micro water turbine. I have the identical unit accepted claims to put out 12 volts. I've been studying Micro Hydro for many years and traveling several countries observing them. this is Pico Hydro. personal I would set up a garden hose penstock. catch the water as high as you can and run the hose as far as you can. putting the turbine at the end of the hose or somewhere in the middle. effectively a penny stock and tail race. interesting fact in Quebec Canada where I live. is it legal to make any amount of electricity off of falling water even off the eaves trough of my house I also have the ...higher current and voltage micro turbine... that you took apart I'll be highly interested in watching you set up the two units on the smoke waterfall. your videos are fantastic thank you very much for all of them
cant tell if you are asking or telling that it is legal to generate power from moving water. You say it is a fact in Quebec Canada (as if there is some other quebec) and then you ask is it legal. so what is your point? also you say to make the hose as long as possible and then put the generator at the end but then say in the middle. i think you haven't got a damn clue about what you are talking about. i dont believe you have travelled to other countries to study micro hydro. Why would you bother to go to another country to see someones plastic chinese ebay generator on a hose?
It may well be the case that you could use a long hose with a generator at any point along it. The rate of flow should be constant along the whole length, but you'd be getting the benefit of the whole potential difference.. Also there are several other Quebecs (just googled it).
GODINN LIVES it is illegal to make any amount of electricity off of falling water in Quebec Canada.. this is PECO electricity from falling water. not micro. and I don't care if you don't believe me that I traveled around the world looking for micro not PECO electric generation
a device that can turn verbal hot air into electrical power......can we send them to parliament? would solve the energy crisis and give us lots left over for electric cars
clive,. can you test this device in action :) I just want to know if this device really generates plausible output voltage at certain water pressure (flow) ex. in household pipeline., we need it or our thesis., ;) BTY thanks for making this kind of vids. Your vids help a lot of students..
Did you ever find a solution to light some leds at your brothers waterfall of a couple feet drop. I am trying to do the same near a stream in India. I'd be most interested in any solution you found to hydro generate some usable watts to light some leds . Tx. Bob C
It needs a high flow. There's an interesting turbine design that uses a large spiral screw in a sleeve to generate power with a low drop. th-cam.com/video/p9-nzuMrVyY/w-d-xo.html
Hi clive i found this little gadget and had few ideas on how i could use it in everyday life it would require charging a lithium rechargeable battery to to use it when water is not flowing could it be done and how hard would the circuitry be if any ! Im an electrician (electronics not so much) any ideas ? It will be powering LED lighting strip , get your thinking cap on :)
"The listing states 10W but the 78L05 will not supply 2A! I'd guess this unit will be rated more conservatively around the 1W area or less. I haven't tested it though." it shouldn't supply 2A ...but 0.83A because well mathematics 12 volt x 0.83A = 10Watt. Still some of them say 150mA (hope it can do at least 0.1A which is 1.2Watt) - I've ordered one different design ..similar but it was a logo and some specs on the sticker ("Sea" ..logo)
what about a pipe made of 20 with those attached one to another? it should work. giving more amps (in parallel) would it work in theory= ? how much energy you can get with 1 meter of turbines connected? pure curiosity :P
I have no background in electricity or electrical components, was just curious to know if it would be possible to use a turbine like this to power a small pump thus creating an infinite loop ?
Sadly physics. but there is a few locations that are using hydro water storage to store solar and wind energy during the day To pump water and then run in reverse during the night. granted there is an energy loss.
maybe more electricity could be generated from sunlight by using a solar panel and a transistor to turn a electro magnet on and off. when the transistor is on the electro magnet attracts a permanent magnet and when it turns off... gravity 🤷♂️
"grand total" the final amount after everything is added up; the sum of other totals. "add together the individual totals to arrive at your grand total"
+James Pian NO. This is a three phase AC motor, therefore it will not spin without a controller. It only makes power, it will not spin if power is applied.
Anyone willing to help id appreciate it. I have the 80v model as opposed to the 12v one my question is if i take out the moduke and replace it with the tp4650 or a 3/5v usb boost would it be more efficient. I regret not having gotten the 12v. Problem is ilmy water pressure isnt enough.
I can't answer your tp4650 or a 3/5v question directly, but unfortunately nothing you do with the electronics can make up for low water pressure. You say the problem you have is low water pressure and I think you are probably right. Nothing you do electrically can compensate for your lack of water. The problem you are up against is the low of conservation of energy. The number of watts of electricity that comes out of the generator can't be greater than the number of watts of mechanical energy that comes in via the flowing water. You are probably familiar with calculating watts of electricity by multiplying volts times amps (P = I x V). The power available from the water can be calculated in a similar way by multiplying the pressure times the volume of water flow (times a constant when needed to account for the particular units being used). This site will calculate the theoretical (maximum) amount of energy available from water given the flow rate and "head" (see below): www.engineeringtoolbox.com/hydropower-d_1359.html This site has smiled down equation with a fudge factor in it to account for efficiency losses in the turbine: www.homepower.com/articles/microhydro-power/design-installation/back-page-basics-hydro-power-calculations There are a few things to note though: 1) Instead of pressure, "head" is more commonly used in hydropower calculations. Head is basically how far your water has to fall in an open system. For example, how high the water is behind your dam. Since the density of water and gravity are fairly constant around the world, "head" can be converted to pressure (or visa-versa). One meter of head is about 10 kPa. Two feet of head is about 1 psi. 2) For the turbine you have there will be a fixed relation between the pressure and the flow rate. This is a bit like an electrical resistor that has a fixed relationship (V = I x R) between voltage and current -- if you know one, then the other is already determined. Thus, with the turbine you have, you can't "make up for" low pressure with more flow. You would need a different turbine to get more flow at the same pressure.
physics unfortunately would rule out your idea pretty quickly given that there's not enough mass of water in your toilet tank reservoir to actually generate significant amount of power, it doesn't matter how many of the generator you hook up if there's not enough energy stored in the form of the mass of water with potential energy in them... we can't generate energy out of nothing after all, we can only convert them.
I just got 6 of these and I know its only 220mah, yet 80v, what would you suggest to increase the amps even if you had to compromise volts, I was thinking about a circuit inverter, or a transformer with a secondary winding?
It's made of that cheap Chinese plastic and most likely loaded with BPA everything plastic here in the US is marked BPA FREE. Bisphenol A, or BPA, is a chemical compound used to make polycarbonate plastics, epoxy resins, and other materials. Virtually everyone in the U.S. comes across BPA every day. Among other things, BPA is used to make: shatterproof polycarbonate hard plastic bottles and containers. Makes you sick and feminizes boys and hyper feminizes girls. Can cause Cancer.
Line suction yes it is a thing, I was just watching another video of a guy building a turbine a few months back. I wonder if I can find the link, i did! th-cam.com/video/g-Wt2tTbOyc/w-d-xo.html Low Head Turbine Testing, explanation starts shortly after 11:00 in, It means that you can put the turbine almost anywhere in the system as the outflow will create suction bla bla bla.
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You Sir, are the Bob Ross of electronics. I have a basic understanding of this stuff, and watch your videos and become hypnotized! Not to mention learn a thing or two now and again. Great videos man.
Sounds like quite an interesting project you've got going here. I think you'd enjoy measuring the generation efficiency of this little turbine, all you need is a flow meter and a home built manometer (literally a piece of transparent hose)
(If no-one has said that yet) Maybe the circuit is also used in some rechargeable "crank-up" LED flashlights that are also chargeable via 5V. That would maybe explain the LiPo charger IC
There must be a reason why most hydro generators are based at the bottom of a dam rather than the top. I'd bet you'll generate more electricity with the device at the bottom of a long pipe, with a short outfall.
As a side note Edinburgh is planning to install turbines on it's fresh water wipes. Water comes from high up in the borders and is gravity fed in to the city.
The water level in the retained pool may experience seasonal drops. Putting the turbines at the bottom increases the likelihood you'll have sufficient water pressure to turn the turbines.
Old farmer here, well dad was and I grew up on one, we used to use funnels for filling the tractors and other gas driven equipment, perhaps a good old funnel hooked to your turbine.
you are correct about the hose. the reason turbines are at the base is to do with the pull pressure causing the water to boil.
glad you suggested how the turbine might be used.
Waterwheel, 6 feet diameter, geared from shaft to alternator. Runs 'Backwards' as the water enters below 9pm on the wheel. Works a treat for anything greater than 2 foot fall. For gears I just used cogs and chain from a pushbike.
There are powered faucets/flush valves that use these kinds of devices to keep themselves charged so you don't need batteries of a power supply. Makes a lot of sense in that application.
as the pipe gets longer you will have more head loss (more drop of pressure), you have to calculate your head loss and see whether or not the head loss causes excessive drop in pressure.
you can also choose your pipes as big as possible with smoother finish inside the pipe to reduce the head loss.
Did you ever follow up on the waterfall idea?
my guess is no
I think the two glass diodes are zener diodes to protect the voltage regulator and the charge controller IC from overvoltage.
Legislation where I live specifically forbids the installation of energy harvesting systems on a properties municipal water supply. Pretty steep fines too. And also forbids using the telephone lines power for anything other than a phone, tiny as that power supply is.
That's probably to stop people connecting their incoming water supply to a turbine and basically just flushing thousands of gallons of water down the drain. The telephone line can provide a modest amount of power, but that puts extra load on the exchange. No problem if just a few people were doing it, but if there were commercial nightlights that plugged into the phone socket then it could potentially overload the supplies in the exchanges if they were used en-masse. If you connected a small turbine in line with your incoming supply that only ran when you actually used water it would not be an issue. Your water consumption wouldn't change. If anything it might go down a bit due to the reduction in pressure caused by the turbine.
CLIVE!!! Oh no, you did not say that. Water is sold by volume not pressure. If it were sold by pressure you could flow water into your house via a 6' pipe and the pressure would be next to nothing.
+Zee-L Usay but less pressure means fewer gallons per minute which means less water usage
No usage would change little. When you need a gallon of water you need a gallon of water. For most applications a specific volume of water is specified. A tub full, A washing machine full, a bucket full, etc. Only timed usage would result in less water. So if you had a water meter shut-off to water the lawn, One that used water flow to power it, usage would not change. If you have an electric timer to turn the water on and off, then the usage would drop. The difference would be time.
The reason for the "no turbine" rule is it takes power to run a turbine. So the water-source would have to add the power needed to turn the turbine to what ever is required to simply pump the water to the house. More power means more costs, less profits. Then we get into the economy of scale thing.
You have probably already learned this from posts below that I'm too lazy to read or from practical experience at your brother's place, but here goes; It is pressure, not velocity that turns the turbine. put the turbine as low as possible and the inlet as high as possible. the pressure on the turbine will be equal to the mass of the water in the vertical drop times the area of the turbine inlet. reduce the pressure by the turbulence in the hose. Big straight pipe = low turbulence. skinny twisted hose = high turbulence.
Alberto Knox Not quite. What you want is maximum mass flow rate. Mass flow rate is determined by the density, cross sectional area, and velocity of the fluid. However, high pressure is very important to getting high velocity, as the two are related. But it is the velocity that will ultimately get you a higher power output from a turbine.
Tronique
However do you not want the flow in the pipe to have a lower average velocity to reduce losses?
Yes. You would use a wide pipe for most of the way, then put a nozzle at the bottom, right before the turbine, to achieve the high velocity. The high speed water will have a large kinetic energy, which will make the turbine blades spin VERY fast (the faster the blades spin, the higher the power output, that's what we want here)
Power is the product of force and displacement, just like in electricity where volts (pressure/force) and amps (displacement/velocity) are multiplied to yield Watts (power). reducing the size of the tube increases velocity at the cost of pressure. It doesn't increase the amount of power a system holds. A properly sized turbine and generator will extract the power from the flow you have. The amount of power will be dependant on the rate of flow (often called "Q") and and the height of the column of water above the pump (called "Head" in this application). A slow turning turbine can generate a lot of power if geared correctly.
In this specific case, it takes little force to get the turbine spinning, so you really do want to jack up the speed a fair bit if possible. The way that the turbine generates electricity is by changing the magnetic field that the coils are in. Getting the blades to spin faster (and therefore oscillating the magnetic field with great frequency) will make the voltage output higher. The resistance in the coil is a constant, so you would also get a higher amperage, and therefore higher power output. In this case, the limit on the speed of the blades is the speed of the water, and this limit is reached with a significant force caused by the water. The force need to get such a tiny turbine spinning is small enough that you could give up most of the water pressure for speed, and still get the blades spinning as fast as the water is moving. A bigger turbine would take more force to get spinning, but at the same time will give a higher voltage output for a given rate of rotation. If you had a bigger turbine, then you would want to maintain a higher pressure so that it will reach the speed of the water. Because we are talking about a type of electric generator, the rotation rate of the motor shaft is was directly affects the power output. The force only matters insofar that it is needed to get a high rotation rate.
I've seen illuminated shower heads sold recently at Lidl (I think) that used the water flow to power its LEDs.
My brother lives near a fairly steep river and has been thinking about doing something on a larger scale, probably a kilowatt. As mentioned, there's not a lot out there on hydro-generation and I'm sure there are many others that live next to fast flowing rivers. For example, eBay is flooded with solar panels, wind turbines and grid tie inverters, but very little on hydro-generators, at least not larger 1kW+ kits where you can simply attach a large pipe to and from.
I think the higher power hydro generators require a modest amount of structure to hold back against the resistance of the water. That may limit their appeal to ebay type purchasers.
The flow of water would be slightly reduced by the resistance of the turbine, but it can be compensated for with a funnel/channel arrangement.
Having a long pipe after the turbine is fine, you are essentially turning a pelton turbine into a Francis type turbine. The problem is you need to limit the length of pipe after the turbine as too much length pulls too high a vacuum at the turbine blades and you begin to get cavitation which decreases efficiency and causes damage to the turbine blades.
So, connected to LEDs it would be a "lighten up Francis"?
Take a bunch of those and add a blade from a drone. During the summer when it hot in your home use a square box fan for the air flow. The efficiency may not be that great depending how much AC power the fan drains
i have no background or experience in this sorta thing but i wager the best thing to do re: waterfall would be to put a pipe with a filtered inlet (enough to prevent sticks and whatnot from getting in) at the highest point you can in the riverbed and then run it to the lowest point you can down the river and put the turbine there with a union so you can remove it to clear the pipe if you need to (or replace the turbine i guess). i don't think putting it directly in the waterfall would create a consistent enough pressure, but with the length and diameter of the pipe you can manage the maximum flow and also have the pipe act as a flow regulator so if the output of the river fluctuates the slack can be taken up in the pipe
Hi, one application for this type of unit is I believe in a domestic combi boiler, so that when any hot water demand is initiated, the incoming flow of cold water from the main operates the turbine as a generator to send a signal to the control PCB and initiate the ignition sequence.
Such a unit failed in our boiler resulting in no DHW for two weeks whilst a replacement was sourced! Excellent videos, many thanks for all your hard input. Is there any chance of doing one on those socket outlet testers?
I have a feeling the board started life as a bicycle generator/light controller using the battery to give light when stationery.
If there was a battery connected, I wonder if the circuit would keep it charged until the turbine stopped then use the battery to keep the 5v output going? That would make sense if the circuit was used with a wind-driven turbine which might be more gusty than a water-driven one.
There's another video here on TH-cam somewhere where the guy has a small waterfall on his property and is using the 12V version of this to light up the pond at the bottom, he has goldfish in it and the led lights attract the bugs to the fish! He said that his one lasted a year running non stop! It might not be much energy but I think that it's paid itself over the year.. maybe if he opened it at the 6 month mark and cleaned it out, it might have run longer on that dirty water.. that 5V one isn't that good... The unregulated ones apparently go up to 80V, just needs an MPPT Charge Controller to make the most out of it!
Makes .22 amps at 12 volts with 10 PSI water input, unregulated makes 1 to 80 Volts depending on water pressure
Flow. Water pressure is not the driving metric. When the tap is closed there is full pressure but no generation. If you open the tap a small amount the pressure will be high but still not much power due to flow restrictions. I assume you mean with unrestricted full pipe diameter flow rates? What are the flow rates required to achieve these outputs?
Bruce Clark I just got 6 of these and I know its only 220mah, yet 80v, what would you suggest to increase the amps even if you had to compromise volts, I was thinking about a circuit inverter, or a transformer with a secondary winding?
Build a Ram Pump if you have 1' of head
What you really want is to maximize flow rate. And although it is true that the flow rate into a pipe will equal the flow rate out, the pressure will be different at each end if there is a change in height between the two ends. The higher pressure will be at the lower end. If you then put a nozzle at the high pressure end (ie the one down stream from the waterfall) the water will reach a VERY high velocity and therefore high flow rate.
OK Clive, if you don't mind a rambling reply. I looked online for these and some advertise 5V or 12V and others just say 5,12,80V with no selection option. The ones with the multiple voltage say 10W at 80V and about 2.6W at 12V. For your waterfall you might be able to put a standard computer fan in a sewer pipe. There is a man who drives a hoverboard motor from a computer fan blade. The generator is at the top and driven by water flowing down the pipe by syphoning. I think if you rectified and waterproofed the computer fan it could drive some fairy lights. How long it lasts would be fun to find out. If you have a go I'd love to see if it works. Mark.
Clive why not consider a ram pump (look it up) to pump a small amount of water through a turbine. OK it would pulse but a man of your talents could sort that mate! Brilliant videos BTW!
GateKommand Given that the operation of the ram pump is really just tiny bursts of water, it might actually be an idea to do away with the water pumping ability and use the inertia of the water to instead thrust a spring loaded magnet through a coil to block the water flow on each cycle. But the bursts of water through a small turbine mounted next to the weighted valve would probably work too.
In that case sir I look forward to watching the video you make of doing it ;)
+bigclivedotcom use water ram to lift water up into a holding tank to turbine. turbine & tank overflow back into source above ram,
What is brilliant?
The nice thing about a hydraulic ram pump (besides its simplicity) is that it can pump water uphill quite a ways from a small head of pressure --- but it does that by throwing away 90% of the water flow through it. I think it would be best to mount the turbine for the best pressure and flow and run the power through a good gauge of wire to where you need it.
Wow the rotor of that motor looks almost exactly like one I took out of the read head of a vcr.
Instead of a long hose after the turbine you could put a long hose upstream. This is also done with hydraulic ram pumps (do a search here on YT). Putting this in your water mains would mean the pumps of the water company must work harder.
I've been into ram pumps for a long time. They do require the mass of water causing the percussive hammer effect for their operation, so I suppose it makes sense to have them at the bottom of a straight run of pipe. The issue with the river at my brothers house is that where it passes the incline isn't great except for the small waterfall that is the point ythat is most accesible and where the power would be nicest to have.
To expand on your idea. if you were to give the top of the hose a larger diameter to the bottom, the volume of water, and the speed it was flowing would surly increase to speed of its flow at the end of the hose. Or would it? Time to experiment!!!
The extra weight of water must make a difference though.
so its pretty much a 3 phase brushless dc motor being used as a generator through a tri bridge of diodes. surprised it wasnt a standard brushed dc motor like the others though.
yes you need to build a venturi system you start with a diameter say 4 inches 100 mm then reduce the size of pipe in steps eg reduce the 100mm to an 80mm bore then to say 40mm each reduction increases the speed of the water as it goes down slope
Interesting that you are thinking about river power sources.
Theres not a lot on the internet about the feasibility of this when you dont have a lot of head to work with.
My property has a very fast flowing river running next to it, in spate it is quite fightening the amount of energy it contains.
There is the remains of a sluice type affair where in the past they were taking power off a drop of about 1 or 2 feet via a small wall and outlet into a deep pool..
Looks like they were running some machinery in the shed, direct from a long driveshaft up on to the bank.
Im not sure how kindly the environment agency will view me reconstructing this affair in the riverbed, its an SSSI zone.
So have been trying to find alternative methods involving floating type turbines, some jerry built things are here on youtube .
And some rather expensive solutions too from what I recall.
I was looking at some archimedes screw type turbines on TH-cam recently. Very low drop and quite low speed geared up to drive the generator. Is the area of the original sluice visible to the public? Sometimes it's easier to apologise later than it is to ask permission in the first place. I like the idea of low power generation just to run some decorative lighting.
bigclivedotcom
Its not directly visible,its a steep riverbank, but is near the road running through our village .
I wonder whether applying for permission is necessary or not, we own the land including the riverbank and the riverbed (half way across anyway) and there has been workings there in the past.
Maybe using greenie type arguments might be enough to let it go.
omgffsification Well you can guarantee that if you ask for permission to do anything then a veritable legion of officials will turn up in hi-vis jackets and suits, then demand formal architectural drawings for even the simplest thing. Personally I'd just go ahead and experiment to your hearts content without asking permission to do so.
bigclivedotcom
Yes.
You are probably correct.
Like night follows day.
We have been through a whole series of hoops just getting the shed rebuilt on the riverbank.
The environment agency wanted otter ladders!!
They obviously thought we were digging foundations into the river or something and the otters would get stuck!
God knows what they would think about an archimedes screw.
omgffsification I wonder if it's a repurposed device. Like a boating towable battery charger or even a boat troller (mini electric outboard engine). The river at my brothers house is ferocious after a storm, so anything that could ride out of the way of boulders seems a good idea.
I've got a larger version that fits onto a Pond Fountain... The wire come off to power Pond LED's... Now wondering if mine has the same type of PCB.
You may consider on the outlet of the water to increase the diameter of the hose from small to large. Would create a natural vacuum creating the desired effect. Also, have I have a much better water turbine design I'd love to kick around with someone.
a little dam in the river would look really awesome I think.. you should do that!
What if you put several of these turbines in series? I mean at the "water input/output" connections, so you get multiple 5V outputs..
Each one will reduce the flow rate.
So did you ever get this to fruition? I would have used a ram pump with a pressure tank to act as a capacitor for smoothing out the pulses. Used the exhaust from the pump as a "fountain".
Why would you rectify 3 phase output from a generator?
It's not like if you used these things you might need a bit of a boost in voltage to get it up a hill.
I would say it is 3 phase as most generators are3 phase rectifie to single by a digital rectifier
Based on another video of a water driven LED shower head that I saw on this channel I have ordered one of these units with the idea of attaching it to a kite for night time LED illumination sans batteries.
that idea would def work no dout Clive
ha ha yes, a waterfall powered by water. BRILLIANT
just having fun with you clive, no malice intended
Would it be possible to power a water pub for a water fountain with one of these. Thinking about it, if you kick start the turbine for the pump , when the pump supports a constant flow of water thought the turbine, would it be able to substance it’s self???
thats an ausome idea clive a genorater verry cool.
I wonder if this is what they use in those fancy taps that have LEDs in them that are powered by the running water.??
I had a shower head that lit up with a turbine in it. It was similar but on a smaller scale. It didn't do a good job of keeping the water away from the electronics.
Could you give us a link for the larger one that you described as "beefy," IIRC.
this is a response to look inside a micro water turbine.
I have the identical unit accepted claims to put out 12 volts.
I've been studying Micro Hydro for many years and traveling several countries observing them.
this is Pico Hydro.
personal I would set up a garden hose penstock.
catch the water as high as you can and run the hose as far as you can.
putting the turbine at the end of the hose or somewhere in the middle.
effectively a penny stock and tail race.
interesting fact in Quebec Canada where I live. is it legal to make any amount of electricity off of falling water
even off the eaves trough of my house
I also have the ...higher current and voltage micro turbine... that you took apart
I'll be highly interested in watching you set up the two units on the smoke waterfall.
your videos are fantastic thank you very much for all of them
cant tell if you are asking or telling that it is legal to generate power from moving water. You say it is a fact in Quebec Canada (as if there is some other quebec) and then you ask is it legal. so what is your point?
also you say to make the hose as long as possible and then put the generator at the end but then say in the middle. i think you haven't got a damn clue about what you are talking about. i dont believe you have travelled to other countries to study micro hydro. Why would you bother to go to another country to see someones plastic chinese ebay generator on a hose?
It may well be the case that you could use a long hose with a generator at any point along it. The rate of flow should be constant along the whole length, but you'd be getting the benefit of the whole potential difference..
Also there are several other Quebecs (just googled it).
GODINN LIVES
it is illegal to make any amount of electricity off of falling water in Quebec Canada..
this is PECO electricity from falling water.
not micro.
and I don't care if you don't believe me that I traveled around the world
looking for micro not PECO electric generation
a device that can turn verbal hot air into electrical power......can we send them to parliament? would solve the energy crisis and give us lots left over for electric cars
But electric cars are shit
You need to run it through a reduction gearbox.
clive,. can you test this device in action :)
I just want to know if this device really generates plausible output voltage at certain water pressure (flow) ex. in household pipeline., we need it or our thesis., ;)
BTY thanks for making this kind of vids. Your vids help a lot of students..
Did you ever find a solution to light some leds at your brothers waterfall of a couple feet drop. I am trying to do the same near a stream in India. I'd be most interested in any solution you found to hydro generate some usable watts to light some leds . Tx. Bob C
It needs a high flow. There's an interesting turbine design that uses a large spiral screw in a sleeve to generate power with a low drop. th-cam.com/video/p9-nzuMrVyY/w-d-xo.html
Hi clive i found this little gadget and had few ideas on how i could use it in everyday life it would require charging a lithium rechargeable battery to to use it when water is not flowing could it be done and how hard would the circuitry be if any ! Im an electrician (electronics not so much) any ideas ? It will be powering LED lighting strip , get your thinking cap on :)
"The listing states 10W but the 78L05 will not supply 2A! I'd guess this unit will be rated more conservatively around the 1W area or less. I haven't tested it though." it shouldn't supply 2A ...but 0.83A because well mathematics 12 volt x 0.83A = 10Watt. Still some of them say 150mA (hope it can do at least 0.1A which is 1.2Watt) - I've ordered one different design ..similar but it was a logo and some specs on the sticker ("Sea" ..logo)
what about a pipe made of 20 with those attached one to another? it should work. giving more amps (in parallel)
would it work in theory= ? how much energy you can get with 1 meter of turbines connected?
pure curiosity :P
led's will light at about 3 volts in some cases
I like this appears very simple which as you know Clive is me to a T ! So my thought is: the power created, what real life use is it?
It might be useful for powering water monitoring equipment or other items where there is frequent flowing water, but no power.
@@bigclivedotcom yeah I see cheers Clive
could the charging circuit be for a solar charged version for use in a garden pond setup maybe?
Approx how many watts will this actually deliver using about 80psi water pressure to light some LEDs?? Tx. Bob C
Hi, do you think there is a way to make this a generator and a flow meter? 2 devices in one? If the water is moving a turbine..
Any follow up Clive?
Better to use old alternators as they do in many underdeveloped countries now they've seen the lights so to speak.
I have a few ideas about this unit and concepts that u may be able to aid me with, any help may be very much appreciated.
put a funnel under the waterfall and onto the input of the pump,
Where could I get the microscope that you used in the video?
eBay. I get my illuminated microscope and magnifiers from there.
I have no background in electricity or electrical components, was just curious to know if it would be possible to use a turbine like this to power a small pump thus creating an infinite loop ?
Alas, the physics don't work like that. The turbine would not generate enough power to drive the pump fast enough.
that's what I though...
Sadly physics. but there is a few locations that are using hydro water storage to store solar and wind energy during the day To pump water and then run in reverse during the night. granted there is an energy loss.
When I posted my comment TH-cam glitched out and when it finally loaded it had 4 duplicates, I reloaded and only 2 remained. Too many people at home?
maybe more electricity could be generated from sunlight by using a solar panel and a transistor to turn a electro magnet on and off. when the transistor is on the electro magnet attracts a permanent magnet and when it turns off... gravity 🤷♂️
Extending the drop past the turbine would cause cavitation.
can i plug it into a circuit board and bring a led to glow?
No need for a Water Fall if you use thermal convection.
who else thought he said it cost a grand at the start😂
"grand total"
the final amount after everything is added up; the sum of other totals.
"add together the individual totals to arrive at your grand total"
@@everest3334 he didn't hear the "total" lol
does this work in reverse as in give DC power does it pump?
+James Campbell
yes
+James Pian NO. This is a three phase AC motor, therefore it will not spin without a controller.
It only makes power, it will not spin if power is applied.
+Kenji Fox
You're right. My bust.
How to oder this trubine genereter
3000h=120 Days?
can i get it's schematic?
Hmm I guess I could easily combine several of these somehow
Anyone willing to help id appreciate it. I have the 80v model as opposed to the 12v one my question is if i take out the moduke and replace it with the tp4650 or a 3/5v usb boost would it be more efficient. I regret not having gotten the 12v. Problem is ilmy water pressure isnt enough.
I can't answer your tp4650 or a 3/5v question directly, but unfortunately nothing you do with the electronics can make up for low water pressure. You say the problem you have is low water pressure and I think you are probably right. Nothing you do electrically can compensate for your lack of water.
The problem you are up against is the low of conservation of energy. The number of watts of electricity that comes out of the generator can't be greater than the number of watts of mechanical energy that comes in via the flowing water.
You are probably familiar with calculating watts of electricity by multiplying volts times amps (P = I x V). The power available from the water can be calculated in a similar way by multiplying the pressure times the volume of water flow (times a constant when needed to account for the particular units being used).
This site will calculate the theoretical (maximum) amount of energy available from water given the flow rate and "head" (see below):
www.engineeringtoolbox.com/hydropower-d_1359.html
This site has smiled down equation with a fudge factor in it to account for efficiency losses in the turbine:
www.homepower.com/articles/microhydro-power/design-installation/back-page-basics-hydro-power-calculations
There are a few things to note though:
1) Instead of pressure, "head" is more commonly used in hydropower calculations. Head is basically how far your water has to fall in an open system. For example, how high the water is behind your dam. Since the density of water and gravity are fairly constant around the world, "head" can be converted to pressure (or visa-versa). One meter of head is about 10 kPa. Two feet of head is about 1 psi.
2) For the turbine you have there will be a fixed relation between the pressure and the flow rate. This is a bit like an electrical resistor that has a fixed relationship (V = I x R) between voltage and current -- if you know one, then the other is already determined. Thus, with the turbine you have, you can't "make up for" low pressure with more flow. You would need a different turbine to get more flow at the same pressure.
Why do you call yourself "Big" Clive?
what about buying thousand of these so every time you flush your toilet you gnenerate megawats of electricity? lol.
Wouldn't be that much because of the limited circumference unfortunatly
physics unfortunately would rule out your idea pretty quickly given that there's not enough mass of water in your toilet tank reservoir to actually generate significant amount of power, it doesn't matter how many of the generator you hook up if there's not enough energy stored in the form of the mass of water with potential energy in them... we can't generate energy out of nothing after all, we can only convert them.
Iono Sama let's make a fusion reactor.
I just got 6 of these and I know its only 220mah, yet 80v, what would you suggest to increase the amps even if you had to compromise volts, I was thinking about a circuit inverter, or a transformer with a secondary winding?
1:57 : oops. That was so funny
It's made of that cheap Chinese plastic and most likely loaded with BPA everything plastic here in the US is marked BPA FREE. Bisphenol A, or BPA, is a chemical compound used to make polycarbonate plastics, epoxy resins, and other materials. Virtually everyone in the U.S. comes across BPA every day. Among other things, BPA is used to make:
shatterproof polycarbonate hard plastic bottles and containers. Makes you sick and feminizes boys and hyper feminizes girls. Can cause Cancer.
Line suction yes it is a thing, I was just watching another video of a guy building a turbine a few months back. I wonder if I can find the link, i did! th-cam.com/video/g-Wt2tTbOyc/w-d-xo.html Low Head Turbine Testing, explanation starts shortly after 11:00 in, It means that you can put the turbine almost anywhere in the system as the outflow will create suction bla bla bla.
Off the flight
looks like a battery charger
Dont call me Shurely
YEAH ITS TO CHARGE A 5V BATTERIE THERE IS A 12V DC GENERATOR
OK Lets open it.............
I just LOVE the Chinese translations to English.