For those who still don't get b buffer after releasing d/b, this happens because you do d/b right at the diagonal. This KBD technique *is not* exactly 'riding the gate'. Instead try to aim the d/b at the space between b and d/b. This might help you to make sure the b input is going to be buffered the time when you release the d/b. I hope this trick will helps you.
This. There's nothing free about the input; that's your hand motion releasing the lever vertically slightly before releasing it laterally to neutral, thus releasing the down switch before releasing the back switch thus giving you the "free" "extra" back, which is neither free nor extra. That is 100% done manually, even if it naturally happens with your hand motion. Longer lever hinge switches can also aid in getting that back input without necessarily consciously trying to.
I have played Tekken for at least 15 years not knowing how to move properly, and watched countless tutorials with little success, like I've known and practised the inputs for so long and could never crack the puzzle on pad or stick. I watch one guide from you, and I kid you not, within 5 GODDAMN MINUTES I can Korean backdash on 1P side on stick, you really made me understand the importance of different grips styles. I dunno how you explain things so well, I also had a lot of trouble understanding frame data and why it was important, and your video on the subject made me understand how to apply it instantly. My point is, your tutorials are the best tutorials
Update: I can do it like 60% of the time on 2P side now using the "kneading the dough" method and do it kinda fast 80% of the time on 1P side now, my arm is dead, and I have achieved more in the past hour than I have in the last 6 months of playing Tekken xD
I'm a pad player but this video was very useful. I was doing the back after the down-back manually, I didn't realize it was buffered. Now I can do it waaaaaay more comfortably and faster
Dude, I've been practicing this for months. I watched this video and all of a sudden I'm doing it seamlessly. Idk what you said but it just made it click. Good job man, I'm really happy about this
I’m a pad player and love my mishimas. And I never realised how important the neutral was. Because my backdash was just A backward wavedash haha but the neutral made it so much more cleaner and easier. Thanks mate
Best tutorial I seen. I used to play Tekken 4 when i was a kid. Never knew what a kbd was lol. This is one thing that sets tekken above 2D fighting games. The game really allows you to have your own style. To express your self much like in martial arts.
man, u are a legend. hopped into training mode and can already do them pretty well thanks to the input buffer explanation. i always thought ppl go back to back after downback and that input felt awful to do. with some practice it will be a good part of my arsenal
Wow this is the probably the best and only tutorial out there that can explain it as good as you do bro good on you for making this video it helps beginners and everybody else in general 🙏🏾 Edit: Plus, the soundtrack towards the end of this video is White Field from Street Fighter EX2 Plus which is one of the games I used to play when I was very young and could remember playing from the back of my head but luckily found out the game again after so many years from another youtube video !! 😭 I thought that there was something very funny about the ending soundtrack as if I heard it from somewhere it sounded so nostalgic and then just had to look up a childhood game of mine I used to play when I young as and you so happened to have one of the soundtracks from one of my underrated but golden childhood games I used to play on ps1 !! You’ve already become my favourite go-to person for tekken bro much props !! Thanks for the unintended nostalgia it makes me wanna cry lol 😭
Dude you are the best tekken tutorialist out there. This game is really complicated for a beginner like me, but your stuff is the rare exception when i actually feel like i understood something. Great job!
Switched to stick a week or so ago. Figured out the backdash on one player side, but was clueless for two player side. Thank you for breaking this down so clearly.
FYI, down back does not inherently buffer, save, or give you a free back input; that is you simply releasing the down switch before releasing the back switch of the lever with your hand motion. If you were to release the lever so that both switches deactivated at the same time/frame, you would get no extra back input and a subsequent back input after neutral would not give you a backdash. There's nothing free about the "free" back input; that is your hand motion manually causing it by releasing the lever upwards before releasing it laterally to the neutral input. The switches with longer hinge levers also help with getting that "free" back input. Tested and confirmed in practice mode with input readouts.
Tl;Dr there's no such thing as a free lun-- erm, input. Rather than thinking of the motion as a perfect right triangle, I think of it as a right triangle in which the hypotenuse goes upwards before flattening out and reaching the "corner" of the triangle in the center of the stick at neutral
After watching this, I can totally understand why people see my hitbox as a cheat box, but I must advise that typing out a KBD is not as easy as it sounds, it's actually a whole different world and I feel that learning how to KBD on traditional sticks is one of those things that everyone should learn regardless of what peripheral they use to play Tekken. This was great and it really helped me to understand how to KBD on a traditional stick, much love for making this!
Thank you bro this is about the best guide I've seen for the Korean backdash all the rest of them they try to do a super God damn fast and don't show you step by step
Been playing Tekken for 25 years, I’m a Mishima main (kazuya), Play in tournaments and am gold ranks online, I’m a pad player who just got a stick today because I feel like pad holds me back too much from pro level play specifically with Mishima characters, and this really helped. Great tutorial.
Thank you very much, Cutcc. Been trying for quite some time and in the last few days, after seeing this video and using your method, I've been having some really good results. 💪💪 Thank you again.
Hey man...Just like to say thank you and that I really appreciate this tut. It's so clear-cut and easy to understand. I've subbed to you because I believe people like you can become the sole reason for making Tekken more accessible to the masses. Great work man! Many compliments!
I hope you are doing well, Cutcc. I'm still working on this and I got to admit, it's not easy. But that's why you work hard and practice, right? I hope you could join us more in Season 3 and teach about it. You make an awesome way of instructing videos and Tekken.
I've been manually inputting b,b, db, and repeating that and wondering about the inconsistency issue of my KBDs. This actually helps a crapton. Thank you.
Regarding the ‘extra’ b input on the way back to neutral, when learning KBD on pad I found that the first b input would be buffered by simply releasing db (I couldn’t even NOT get b to be buffered if I tried) When I learnt to KBD on stick I found that releasing db wouldn’t buffer in b and it’d just return to the neutral state so I had to incorporate a slight bias towards back when releasing db so that the stick would ‘pass through’ back on its way back to neutral. You or other tutorials I’ve seen on TH-cam don’t seem to have this problem and your stocks seem to behave more like my pad does. Does the type of lever you use matter then? (I use a hori Hayabusa lever)
It definitely could matter to an extent. Everyone's hands are different, and that could impact the way they handle different levers. On Amazon it says that the Qanba Eightarc Fusion (The Stick I was using in the video) has a Sanwa JLF lever. I'm not too knowledgable on how different levers feel but perhaps this bit of info could be useful to you. With regards to you not getting a buffered b when you release Db, perhaps try changing the way you release Db. I don't think you need to go so far as to incorporate a slight bias towards back, but like....when you release Db (assuming you're using your index finger and middle finger to hold Db in place), make a slight slight counter clockwise sweeping motion with your fingers, and that should put you in a comfortable neutral position to tap back with your thumb. If you change up Timing + Orientation, something should click.
I also have the issue where if I'm trying to do it too quick i don't get the "extra" b input (sometimes am able to mess it up 5 times in a row without "extra" b). I just try to think of letting go with my thumb (or whatever's holding the stick to the side) slightly after letting go with my pointer finger (which is holding the stick down) or whathaveyou. Using a Sanwa JLF.
you are right, i recently made my own arcade stick with sanwa parts and the sanwa jlf spring doesn't seem to give me back input, i'll have to slightly pull the lever to the B to get the Extra Back Input!
I'm going to agree with cutcc on this, this raises a very interesting point. I also, for the sake of why I'm leaving this comment, want to add another question for those who aren't seeing a "buffered" neutral after the crouch cancel. How many of you guys are using octagonal gates instead of square gates? (Cause for Tekken, preference or not, I would advise against using these.)
found your video today, dude thank you so much, im starting to learn tekken and everyone is saying how important this is to learn, you made it really easy to grasp, im doing already 3 in a row =D
If you actually listen to the mechanical switches when you're doing the KBD input, you will hear the back input. Try holding d/b from the u/f portion of your stick with two fingers pushing it to d/b, and then release it. It will just show d/b on the command history. You can test this with any other grip that isn't your normal one. It will just go to d/b and back to neutral. If the stick does not hit the back switch there will be no back input. Now if you use your regular grip, you naturally grip the stick with your fingers wrapped around it so you are "pulling" the stick from netural to d/b. With this grip, when you want to "release" the stick to get it back to neutral, your natural hand motion is to just let go of the stick. Your fingers will move in an upward motion to release it, and that causes the "slide/guide" and hits the back input that everyone thinks is "free". It isn't a free back input, it's just a product of how you hold your stick and how it's released.
Apologies cutcc. I didn't know that was gonna happen. There's always that one loudmouth in the proverbial classroom that wants to get something started. Sorry about that. Thanks for the vid. Good stuff; would like to see more vids like this. (Side step cancelling stuff would be awesome; specifically for stick. Hopefully no one will come in the comments arguing about inputs on the next one. Funny how they're not arguing with you despite you and I agreeing on the exact same input method...)
as a right side player who has to wear wrist braces, i find it much easier to use the palm right below my ring finger. Hopefully this helps any other hand injured guys or gals out there
Hey I struggled with this for a few days(switched from Japanese stick to korean) and I finally got the motion down on 1p side, I didn’t picture it as a right triangle, that actually made it harder for me, since korean doesn’t have a restrictor gate my thumb pushes back and the I use my middle and ring finger to roll it down to where I get a crouch, then I let go and repeat that process, back and roll down
Update, I ended up dropping tekken and getting back into it with the release of 4.0, before learning how to play on p2 side. This video really helped solve my problem by just watching your hand positioning, I was trying to kbd with my palm and it was extremely tiring and innacurate
I have a stick to specifically learn tekken on to get the true tekken arcade style experience. I notice a lot of players I play against at tournaments they use them and say once I get past the initial struggle of learning the arcade stick then it’s a lot easier. It seems like it would be if I put the time into it. Which I am, I’m done being scared of relearning on arcade stick.
4:50 This is incorrect and this is the only thing about the KBD that's complicated and KDB guides in general because you think you are purely letting go to neutral but in reality you are not doing that. If you let go to neutral after the initial ⬅️ ⬅️↙️ and if we do how you tell us to do it, our inputs would look like this right: ⬅️ ⬅️↙️ ⬅️↙️ ⬅️↙️ And earlier you said "if i don't let go of the neutral in the first place, that extra back that we talked about earlier will always be locked away" But letting go to neutral will not magically input a ⬅️ direction. So what's really happening is that you have learned through muscle memory to keep pressure towards the left direction with your thumb until the down direction has disengaged and you are not explaining it because it's in your muscle memory. And it's not even easy to consistently let go to exactly neutral after ↙️ so that is why the 100% accurate explanation gets hidden so easily in KBD guides. So the 100% accurate explanation for KBD is: ⬅️ ⬅️↙️and not let go to neutral from there but keep the left switch preased and move the stick up until the down direction is deactivated and then go to neutral and press back and down back. That is why your command history gives you the correct KBD: ⬅️ ⬅️↙️⬅️ ⬅️↙️⬅️ ⬅️↙️⬅️ even though you are saying you let the stick go to neutral. (Sorry for the many edits and i'm not trying to sound negative and i know this is a 3 year old video but i wanted to demystify the KBD) 5:42 If you watch this at 0.25 speed you can clearly see you are keeping the ⬅️ direction pressed until the ⬇️is released because it moves up first and then when it's near center level it goes to neutral.
So clear, so concise. What a fantastic video. Great delivery of information, too. The perfect approach to a tutorial video. (just a tiny comment. careful about hitting "p" words like "push" and "pinch" into the mic, that can sound really jarring, it seemed like you didn't have a pop filter, those can help lessen the severity on those words :D )
Never knew there was a neutral in the notation. Going to try something similar with pad. Hopefully now I wont get smacked with mid launchers anymore when backing up.
Love the connection of the technique to the wine grip, adds a lot of logic to the hand position. Do you switch grips between backdashes and attack inputs? For example kbd into a df2 generic whiff punish
Let's see kbd into a Df+2...My grip does not change at all in that situation--thats the beauty of the way I hold the stick, it works for literally every action and situation that arises in Tekken ( or at least 95% of them)
cutcc cutcc thanks for the thoughtful reply! I think it’ll just take some adjustment on my part. My accuracy is wack and I get lots of cardinals unless I use my fingertips to guide to the corner. Thanks for the content!
Thank you for the Backdash tutorial you could do a tutorial of atlante Costa totally sideways or else forward hook forward hook I wait for your answer because you are a genius
Super useful! Had the fun of once I got the timing down on 1p side (still not fast, is day 1 of trying to do so XD) I was able to more consistently do the 2p side then the 1p side, which was weird ( not at a decent speed, but the slowed down mechanics of it were easier to hit for me *shrugs*)
lol legit took no more than 30 minutes to consistently backdash on 1p side using this. Watch on .25x speed at around 6:00, that's where I learned the rhythm well.
So would this tl:dr be correct? 1.) A backdash is performed with bb, and can be cancelled with a sidestep (in this case, it's the down button) 2.) pressing db serves two functions (a) cancelling the first backdash with the down portion of the input (b) buffering the b portion for the next backdash 3.) Letting go of the stick (in most cases) will make the stick input the first back because of the way our fingers naturally hold the stick 4.) Repeat the cycle. So if i took out the neutral inputs for the sake of simplicity , it will be bb (first backdash), db -> let go of stick, -> b,db -> let go of stick etc.?
Yes b~db -> let go of stick, -> b~db -> let go of stick etc. sounds about right. As for the other points you mentioned: 1.) You can cancel a backdash with U, D, Db, (Df maybe?), F, FF, U~U(hold), and D~D(hold). So basically you can cancel it into many things. But it's only Db that has the special property of letting you loop backdashes. 2.) That's actually a really cool way to think about it, perhaps that's why the extra back is buffered. 3.) That does make sense but for now I will disagree hehe. I still believe that there's some sort of computer program phenomena going on in the game where holding Db buffers an extra B, and if you input an additional command within a specific window of time, it will be combined with that extra B. Like I think if we had a computer go from Db to neutral perfectly without passing through B, we'll still get an extra B appear--that's my theory.
You're right, everyone is putting out KBD Guides lately lol. It's just that I promised that I would make one over 10 months ago, and after seeing Anakin's backdash tutorial recently, I was like, "Oh man, I need to stop procrastinating and start learning KBD myself" =).
cutcc thank you very much for this, KBD is a very hard thing to learn and you and those who age doing guides like this is really really appreciated please keep it up !
I was able to backdash on a noob level maybe after a week of practicing, 2p is a bit harder but once you get movement figured out everything else falls in place
Recently I bought my first arcade stick specifically to play tekken. Nothing too fancy obviously I just got a cheap one to try the feeling of it. Needless to say, I was pretty mad when I found out that I lost all my movement skills on pad although I could easily do harder stuff like electrics lol
How do you do a koreelan back dash with a silent sanwa? Would you happen to know? Because it's different. You get the extra back input when you slide the lever to back and before you release it to neutral.
I've been playing Tekken for almost 3 years now, and the whole time I've been using pad. I want to be able to use this kind of method, but I haven't seen any pad tutorials. Are there any tips and tricks I need to know for that?
You press BB for the first back, Holding the B and then press down to get a downback command, Then you release the downback to get a neutral, and press again Back once to get another backdash, Holding the back you press down and so on, repeating this process. Its the same exact thing you watched here, except on pad you wanna buffer the downback input to be optimal and precise. It's in my opinion actually easier on pad cause you only need a single motion with one finger
@@Giraffinator It's about timing, you can't press back again too fast or too slow, once you hit a couple times you just kinda remember it and you can do it multiple times. Try pressing back as soon as the stick goes back to neutral, it has to be pretty quick.
I’m looking into getting a Korean stick. And one where I can easily put inside a Qanba pearl with out needed to be modded or cut into, in order to instal it. Is there any you could recommend if you know of any?
With 2p i've got the motion down, its just when I start to do it fast I'll miss either miss a neutral input or just about miss the d/b switch. it doesn't matter how slow I practice the moment I speed up I'll get these issues
For some reason even letting my stick return to neutral from db won’t provide an extra back upon release. If anyone knows why it would be extremely appreciated, I’m playing on a Panthera btw.
That's because it isn't the db that provides the extra back, it just so happens that when we let go of downback the stick (usually) 'slides' past back on its way to neutral. That's where you get the extra back from. Try to make your stick pass through back when you let go from downback.
This made sense until I actually tried it I went into practice mode after watching this and tried, but I dont get the extra back after the downback. It is either a down or it goes straight to nuetral. To get the extra back I have to do a wierd movement like tracing an upside down L back and forth. Is that what you are supposed to do?
Got my first ever stick yesterday after over 20 years playing tekken on a pad, i just cant do some movement inputs on the controller. I feel like a totally new player again trying to get used to the stick tho lol. I'm holding it like you kind of but the ball sits inbetween my little finger and ring finger. Is that a poor grip? It feels comfortable but awkward on moving backwards.
Is it really holding d/b that saves for extra b? When I tried it, I didn't work. It's the qcb that you do, that goes to backdash. It's even visible on your command history. That confused me until I realized that it's qcf, not just d/b to * to b.
It's not, it's the release of d/b that hits the back on it's way up to neutral. You basically have to use your hand position to "encourage" the stick back to neutral while slightly grazing the back input
@@franca1567 Can't remember what was said in the video but the input isn't buffered as you realized. It just comes down to releasing db into neutral in a way that registers a back by gently sliding on the angle of your hand position, rather than letting go raw from db into neutral
Maybe the video said it wrong, but the buffer in reality means that your release from db to neutral (when slightly tilted to obtain it) buffers a back input, so you only need to hit back once again to get a backdash. That's what is usually meant by buffering in this case. I can understand the confusion tho
Hi cutcc and thanks for this great video. 👍 However I've got a problem that I'd like to tell you. Although I manage to get more and more consistant KBDs I can't obtain the famous inputs command line "b,db,b b,db,b b,db,b b,db,b ...." on my command list. Indeed I've always got "db,b b db,b b db,b b db,b b ....". As you can see there's always a space before the "db" and after the following "b" related to a neutral position. Actually it seems that I need to get an isolated "b" in order to succeed my KBDs. If I don't respect this neutral position twice at these precise moments, nothing happens. If I respect the "b,db,b" command nothing happens too. I've to specify that I play on PS4 and that I possess a Nacon Daija arcade stick. Moreover I use a more resistant ressort (1kg/2lbs) than the original one. Would you know why I can't enter this particular command inputs list ? Unless it's not so important since I manage to succeed my KBDs better and better. 🤔 Anyway I wish I were clear enough. 😅 Friendly.
hey cutcc, great vid but when you say you can let the stick go to neutral from the down back position, you are forgetting about the back input before the neutral state. because of the spring mechanism of the joystick and the position of our hands/fingers, alot of the times that back input happens naturally when letting the stick go, however there are times when the back input does not happen when letting the stick go and in that case, it will not result in a kbd. essentially, the idea of a back input stored within a down back input is false. at 4:40 it happens. you went from d/b directly to neutral, and then back, and as a result the back dash did not come out. many people forget about this in their kbd tutorial. just letting you know.
Hmmm that does make sense in a way. But I can't help thinking that if the spring mechanism gives us a back input before the neutral state, then Db (Let the Stick Go)B, n B should also result in a backdash, but it doesn't (at 4:30, Db~b~Db~b or B~db~B~db results in nothing)--which gives more validity to Db, n (Input Buffer Release)B, B as the one that results in the backdash. So I think that the "extra back" still comes out after the neutral, but only conditionally (If you input an extra command and you input it within the right window of time). I believe that at 4:40 when the backdash did not come out that was just because I didn't go into neutral enough and allow for the input buffer window to take place--in essence I did it too fast and did Db~B. Even when I was recording and 4:40 happen in my head I was like, "Oops, bad timing..."
cutcc I am not sure if there is any input buffering at all when doing a kbd. I think it is truly just raw input. This input is the raw input I use when I kbd: 1. back, neutral, back, neutral, (that represents the very first back dash) 2. down back, slide up directly to back (this slide up to back part is the part that usually happens on it's own when "letting the stick go"), neutral, back, neutral. Repeating step 2 results in multiple kbd.
Thanks again for being so responsive! One thing I’m getting stuck on while cleaning up my form is maintain clean 2P dash blocks. When I was using a hybrid grip with fingertips, I got fast responsiveness with comfort but imprecision. Using my hand bones on the palm to backdash is so much cleaner, but I struggle in the deadzone between my thumb dashing forward and palm moving to block. Do you have any experience wihh th this? Just a matter of practice?
Hmm I'm not quite sure what you mean by thumb dashing forward and palm moving to block, could you elaborate on that? I occasionally use my thumb to sidestep cancel but I don't really experience any deadzones, not that I can remember.
P1 side is a slow learner but im able to do it. cant even get a backdash from crouch on P2 though and i been trying for over an hour .... really frustrating. i understand the mechanics of how it works but unable to do it .
If anyone can answer me I'd appreciate it . my input history is " b,dnb,b b " there's an extra b input I get every time . What triggers it , is the b after the neutral . The result seems fine and it looks like im getting the backdash cancel . Now obviously , I'm gonna need some time before I can loop the backdash cancel together , so I can't quite judge whether the extra b input is going to affect the end result or not I hope someone can help me with this
So I have an issue. Maybe someone can help. When I let go of db, nothing happens. It has only inputted db and not db b. When you do it the system recognises an extra b after you let go. I’m using the Razer Panthera Evo stick.
Yeah this is one of the things that messed me up when I was learning for the first time, I'm not sure why there are a lot of tutorials that suggest that releasing the stick from d/b to neutral will result in a free back input, it is not free you need to release the stick to neutral via back by guiding the stick ever so slightly, releasing too sharply will just get you this input: b, d/b, n instead of the desired b, d/b, b, n.
This was a great video tutorial! My 1 player side is perfect but I still cant do 2p side on stick after months of practice. On pad I can do both sides perfect. Should I just stick with pad?
![Analyzing Your Strengths & Weaknesses in Tekken [Fundamentals]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/I6_LAMfapdY/mqdefault.jpg)
![Analyzing Your Strengths & Weaknesses in Tekken [Fundamentals]](/img/tr.png)
For those who still don't get b buffer after releasing d/b, this happens because you do d/b right at the diagonal. This KBD technique *is not* exactly 'riding the gate'. Instead try to aim the d/b at the space between b and d/b. This might help you to make sure the b input is going to be buffered the time when you release the d/b. I hope this trick will helps you.
Wow thank you!
This. There's nothing free about the input; that's your hand motion releasing the lever vertically slightly before releasing it laterally to neutral, thus releasing the down switch before releasing the back switch thus giving you the "free" "extra" back, which is neither free nor extra. That is 100% done manually, even if it naturally happens with your hand motion.
Longer lever hinge switches can also aid in getting that back input without necessarily consciously trying to.
i fucking love you, i can kbd thanks to you, nobody explained it like this. THANK YOU.
Holy wow... thanks
This comment is the missing link.now i can do kbd.thank u thank u
I have played Tekken for at least 15 years not knowing how to move properly, and watched countless tutorials with little success, like I've known and practised the inputs for so long and could never crack the puzzle on pad or stick. I watch one guide from you, and I kid you not, within 5 GODDAMN MINUTES I can Korean backdash on 1P side on stick, you really made me understand the importance of different grips styles. I dunno how you explain things so well, I also had a lot of trouble understanding frame data and why it was important, and your video on the subject made me understand how to apply it instantly. My point is, your tutorials are the best tutorials
Update: I can do it like 60% of the time on 2P side now using the "kneading the dough" method and do it kinda fast 80% of the time on 1P side now, my arm is dead, and I have achieved more in the past hour than I have in the last 6 months of playing Tekken xD
.
ExaltedPenguin you wasted your 15 years lol
@@bludika he had fun tho so he didnt
wow i try this now for an hour and dont get 2 in a row, why is there no normal movement in this game >.
Legit the best tutorial I’ve seen.
Seconded.
I'm a pad player but this video was very useful. I was doing the back after the down-back manually, I didn't realize it was buffered. Now I can do it waaaaaay more comfortably and faster
Best Korean backdash tutorial I’ve come across yet
I've watch like 7 of these tutorials. First time I actually under stood.
Dude, I've been practicing this for months. I watched this video and all of a sudden I'm doing it seamlessly. Idk what you said but it just made it click. Good job man, I'm really happy about this
I’m a pad player and love my mishimas. And I never realised how important the neutral was. Because my backdash was just A backward wavedash haha but the neutral made it so much more cleaner and easier. Thanks mate
supremely under-appreciated channel, good shit as always my man
Best tutorial I seen. I used to play Tekken 4 when i was a kid. Never knew what a kbd was lol. This is one thing that sets tekken above 2D fighting games. The game really allows you to have your own style. To express your self much like in martial arts.
Thx for this, I've been struggling on 2p side.
man, u are a legend. hopped into training mode and can already do them pretty well thanks to the input buffer explanation. i always thought ppl go back to back after downback and that input felt awful to do. with some practice it will be a good part of my arsenal
Wow this is the probably the best and only tutorial out there that can explain it as good as you do bro good on you for making this video it helps beginners and everybody else in general 🙏🏾
Edit:
Plus, the soundtrack towards the end of this video is White Field from Street Fighter EX2 Plus which is one of the games I used to play when I was very young and could remember playing from the back of my head but luckily found out the game again after so many years from another youtube video !! 😭 I thought that there was something very funny about the ending soundtrack as if I heard it from somewhere it sounded so nostalgic and then just had to look up a childhood game of mine I used to play when I young as and you so happened to have one of the soundtracks from one of my underrated but golden childhood games I used to play on ps1 !! You’ve already become my favourite go-to person for tekken bro much props !! Thanks for the unintended nostalgia it makes me wanna cry lol 😭
Dude you are the best tekken tutorialist out there. This game is really complicated for a beginner like me, but your stuff is the rare exception when i actually feel like i understood something. Great job!
Switched to stick a week or so ago. Figured out the backdash on one player side, but was clueless for two player side. Thank you for breaking this down so clearly.
FYI, down back does not inherently buffer, save, or give you a free back input; that is you simply releasing the down switch before releasing the back switch of the lever with your hand motion. If you were to release the lever so that both switches deactivated at the same time/frame, you would get no extra back input and a subsequent back input after neutral would not give you a backdash.
There's nothing free about the "free" back input; that is your hand motion manually causing it by releasing the lever upwards before releasing it laterally to the neutral input. The switches with longer hinge levers also help with getting that "free" back input.
Tested and confirmed in practice mode with input readouts.
Tl;Dr there's no such thing as a free lun-- erm, input.
Rather than thinking of the motion as a perfect right triangle, I think of it as a right triangle in which the hypotenuse goes upwards before flattening out and reaching the "corner" of the triangle in the center of the stick at neutral
After watching this, I can totally understand why people see my hitbox as a cheat box, but I must advise that typing out a KBD is not as easy as it sounds, it's actually a whole different world and I feel that learning how to KBD on traditional sticks is one of those things that everyone should learn regardless of what peripheral they use to play Tekken. This was great and it really helped me to understand how to KBD on a traditional stick, much love for making this!
Thank you bro this is about the best guide I've seen for the Korean backdash all the rest of them they try to do a super God damn fast and don't show you step by step
Late but I NEVER in all my years understood how to do this until now. Thanks for the help great video mate
Just pick up tekken a week ago and i love it ... Thank you for this video ! Helped me ALOT !
You have the perfect voice for ASMR
This is actually the best backdash explanation I have seen.
Cutcc you're a legend, quality videos as always.
Been playing Tekken for 25 years, I’m a Mishima main (kazuya), Play in tournaments and am gold ranks online, I’m a pad player who just got a stick today because I feel like pad holds me back too much from pro level play specifically with Mishima characters, and this really helped. Great tutorial.
This dude earned that thumbs up. Absolutely stellar tutorial.
Thank you very much, Cutcc. Been trying for quite some time and in the last few days, after seeing this video and using your method, I've been having some really good results. 💪💪 Thank you again.
5:45 Thanks for putting the inputs in the video, even though you explained in the video.
Hey man...Just like to say thank you and that I really appreciate this tut. It's so clear-cut and easy to understand. I've subbed to you because I believe people like you can become the sole reason for making Tekken more accessible to the masses. Great work man! Many compliments!
Thx man! Your words inspire me to continue working hard at creating good educational content =).
I hope you are doing well, Cutcc. I'm still working on this and I got to admit, it's not easy. But that's why you work hard and practice, right? I hope you could join us more in Season 3 and teach about it. You make an awesome way of instructing videos and Tekken.
Nice guide, very helpful for Ball Top playing (with Bat Top backdashing is naturally easier)...
You're one of the few people that still have an Eightarc :)
I've been manually inputting b,b, db, and repeating that and wondering about the inconsistency issue of my KBDs. This actually helps a crapton. Thank you.
This is very nice, I always thought the "rapid backstep", as I called it, was a quarter circle. Just d/b is great!
This was the KBD tutorial that actually helped, thanks a lot. Gained a subscriber.
Regarding the ‘extra’ b input on the way back to neutral, when learning KBD on pad I found that the first b input would be buffered by simply releasing db (I couldn’t even NOT get b to be buffered if I tried) When I learnt to KBD on stick I found that releasing db wouldn’t buffer in b and it’d just return to the neutral state so I had to incorporate a slight bias towards back when releasing db so that the stick would ‘pass through’ back on its way back to neutral. You or other tutorials I’ve seen on TH-cam don’t seem to have this problem and your stocks seem to behave more like my pad does. Does the type of lever you use matter then? (I use a hori Hayabusa lever)
It definitely could matter to an extent. Everyone's hands are different, and that could impact the way they handle different levers. On Amazon it says that the Qanba Eightarc Fusion (The Stick I was using in the video) has a Sanwa JLF lever. I'm not too knowledgable on how different levers feel but perhaps this bit of info could be useful to you. With regards to you not getting a buffered b when you release Db, perhaps try changing the way you release Db. I don't think you need to go so far as to incorporate a slight bias towards back, but like....when you release Db (assuming you're using your index finger and middle finger to hold Db in place), make a slight slight counter clockwise sweeping motion with your fingers, and that should put you in a comfortable neutral position to tap back with your thumb. If you change up Timing + Orientation, something should click.
I also have the issue where if I'm trying to do it too quick i don't get the "extra" b input (sometimes am able to mess it up 5 times in a row without "extra" b). I just try to think of letting go with my thumb (or whatever's holding the stick to the side) slightly after letting go with my pointer finger (which is holding the stick down) or whathaveyou. Using a Sanwa JLF.
you are right, i recently made my own arcade stick with sanwa parts and the sanwa jlf spring doesn't seem to give me back input, i'll have to slightly pull the lever to the B to get the Extra Back Input!
I'm going to agree with cutcc on this, this raises a very interesting point. I also, for the sake of why I'm leaving this comment, want to add another question for those who aren't seeing a "buffered" neutral after the crouch cancel. How many of you guys are using octagonal gates instead of square gates? (Cause for Tekken, preference or not, I would advise against using these.)
TheWarriorPoet I'm using octagonal gate, whats your point? Can you please elaborate?
Bruh that was literally the only tutorial that helped. Thanks!
Now that's what I call clean inputs - nice!
found your video today, dude thank you so much, im starting to learn tekken and everyone is saying how important this is to learn, you made it really easy to grasp, im doing already 3 in a row =D
If you actually listen to the mechanical switches when you're doing the KBD input, you will hear the back input.
Try holding d/b from the u/f portion of your stick with two fingers pushing it to d/b, and then release it. It will just show d/b on the command history. You can test this with any other grip that isn't your normal one. It will just go to d/b and back to neutral. If the stick does not hit the back switch there will be no back input.
Now if you use your regular grip, you naturally grip the stick with your fingers wrapped around it so you are "pulling" the stick from netural to d/b. With this grip, when you want to "release" the stick to get it back to neutral, your natural hand motion is to just let go of the stick. Your fingers will move in an upward motion to release it, and that causes the "slide/guide" and hits the back input that everyone thinks is "free". It isn't a free back input, it's just a product of how you hold your stick and how it's released.
Apologies cutcc. I didn't know that was gonna happen. There's always that one loudmouth in the proverbial classroom that wants to get something started. Sorry about that. Thanks for the vid. Good stuff; would like to see more vids like this. (Side step cancelling stuff would be awesome; specifically for stick. Hopefully no one will come in the comments arguing about inputs on the next one. Funny how they're not arguing with you despite you and I agreeing on the exact same input method...)
as a right side player who has to wear wrist braces, i find it much easier to use the palm right below my ring finger. Hopefully this helps any other hand injured guys or gals out there
Thanks man i was struggling with backdash. It really helped.
Best tutorial I've found. Thx man
This is the best tutorial for kbd that I've come across, thanks!
Great tutorial! I feel like a lot of resources need to be translated from Korean to English! There are so many tutorials for this in Korean!
Hey I struggled with this for a few days(switched from Japanese stick to korean) and I finally got the motion down on 1p side, I didn’t picture it as a right triangle, that actually made it harder for me, since korean doesn’t have a restrictor gate my thumb pushes back and the I use my middle and ring finger to roll it down to where I get a crouch, then I let go and repeat that process, back and roll down
Update, I ended up dropping tekken and getting back into it with the release of 4.0, before learning how to play on p2 side. This video really helped solve my problem by just watching your hand positioning, I was trying to kbd with my palm and it was extremely tiring and innacurate
I have a stick to specifically learn tekken on to get the true tekken arcade style experience. I notice a lot of players I play against at tournaments they use them and say once I get past the initial struggle of learning the arcade stick then it’s a lot easier. It seems like it would be if I put the time into it. Which I am, I’m done being scared of relearning on arcade stick.
4:50 This is incorrect and this is the only thing about the KBD that's complicated and KDB guides in general because you think you are purely letting go to neutral but in reality you are not doing that.
If you let go to neutral after the initial ⬅️ ⬅️↙️ and if we do how you tell us to do it, our inputs would look like this right:
⬅️ ⬅️↙️ ⬅️↙️ ⬅️↙️
And earlier you said "if i don't let go of the neutral in the first place, that extra back that we talked about earlier will always be locked away"
But letting go to neutral will not magically input a ⬅️ direction.
So what's really happening is that you have learned through muscle memory to keep pressure towards the left direction with your thumb until the down direction has disengaged and you are not explaining it because it's in your muscle memory.
And it's not even easy to consistently let go to exactly neutral after ↙️ so that is why the 100% accurate explanation gets hidden so easily in KBD guides.
So the 100% accurate explanation for KBD is:
⬅️ ⬅️↙️and not let go to neutral from there but keep the left switch preased and move the stick up until the down direction is deactivated and then go to neutral and press back and down back.
That is why your command history gives you the correct KBD: ⬅️ ⬅️↙️⬅️ ⬅️↙️⬅️ ⬅️↙️⬅️
even though you are saying you let the stick go to neutral.
(Sorry for the many edits and i'm not trying to sound negative and i know this is a 3 year old video but i wanted to demystify the KBD)
5:42 If you watch this at 0.25 speed you can clearly see you are keeping the ⬅️ direction pressed until the ⬇️is released because it moves up first and then when it's near center level it goes to neutral.
Very good breakdown.
Love the Song from Tekken 5 DR it's so good
Hi, one of the best tutorial, thank you, I really improved my Korean backdash !
So clear, so concise. What a fantastic video. Great delivery of information, too. The perfect approach to a tutorial video. (just a tiny comment. careful about hitting "p" words like "push" and "pinch" into the mic, that can sound really jarring, it seemed like you didn't have a pop filter, those can help lessen the severity on those words :D )
best kbd tutorial on youtube
Never knew there was a neutral in the notation. Going to try something similar with pad. Hopefully now I wont get smacked with mid launchers anymore when backing up.
Love the connection of the technique to the wine grip, adds a lot of logic to the hand position. Do you switch grips between backdashes and attack inputs? For example kbd into a df2 generic whiff punish
Let's see kbd into a Df+2...My grip does not change at all in that situation--thats the beauty of the way I hold the stick, it works for literally every action and situation that arises in Tekken ( or at least 95% of them)
cutcc cutcc thanks for the thoughtful reply! I think it’ll just take some adjustment on my part. My accuracy is wack and I get lots of cardinals unless I use my fingertips to guide to the corner. Thanks for the content!
Thank you for the Backdash tutorial you could do a tutorial of atlante Costa totally sideways or else forward hook forward hook I wait for your answer because you are a genius
Hours and hours of practice. I gave up. I decided to come back a couple months later. Still just can’t do it
Super useful! Had the fun of once I got the timing down on 1p side (still not fast, is day 1 of trying to do so XD) I was able to more consistently do the 2p side then the 1p side, which was weird ( not at a decent speed, but the slowed down mechanics of it were easier to hit for me *shrugs*)
Thank you for this, I figured out exactly what I was doing wrong with this video! Much appreciated!
Best backdash video ever!
Thanks for great tutorial as well as great music!
Thanks far the guide your video is always awesome
Wow I think this is it! Thank you ! Need to practice more
This helped me and im a pad player great job cutcc :)
lol legit took no more than 30 minutes to consistently backdash on 1p side using this. Watch on .25x speed at around 6:00, that's where I learned the rhythm well.
hey man just found your channel today, big respect for the time you put into trying to help the community +sub
So would this tl:dr be correct?
1.) A backdash is performed with bb, and can be cancelled with a sidestep (in this case, it's the down button)
2.) pressing db serves two functions (a) cancelling the first backdash with the down portion of the input (b) buffering the b portion for the next backdash
3.) Letting go of the stick (in most cases) will make the stick input the first back because of the way our fingers naturally hold the stick
4.) Repeat the cycle.
So if i took out the neutral inputs for the sake of simplicity , it will be bb (first backdash), db -> let go of stick, -> b,db -> let go of stick etc.?
Yes b~db -> let go of stick, -> b~db -> let go of stick etc. sounds about right. As for the other points you mentioned:
1.) You can cancel a backdash with U, D, Db, (Df maybe?), F, FF, U~U(hold), and D~D(hold). So basically you can cancel it into many things. But it's only Db that has the special property of letting you loop backdashes.
2.) That's actually a really cool way to think about it, perhaps that's why the extra back is buffered.
3.) That does make sense but for now I will disagree hehe. I still believe that there's some sort of computer program phenomena going on in the game where holding Db buffers an extra B, and if you input an additional command within a specific window of time, it will be combined with that extra B. Like I think if we had a computer go from Db to neutral perfectly without passing through B, we'll still get an extra B appear--that's my theory.
ok thank you!!
It's me or everyone is doing a KBD Guide ?
Anyway thank you for this even If i'm a Pad player i understood the point !
You're right, everyone is putting out KBD Guides lately lol. It's just that I promised that I would make one over 10 months ago, and after seeing Anakin's backdash tutorial recently, I was like, "Oh man, I need to stop procrastinating and start learning KBD myself" =).
cutcc thank you very much for this, KBD is a very hard thing to learn and you and those who age doing guides like this is really really appreciated please keep it up !
I'm still struggling with it but at least I have understood what I should do :) great video!
I was able to backdash on a noob level maybe after a week of practicing, 2p is a bit harder but once you get movement figured out everything else falls in place
We need a EWGF hand guide now. I can't wrap my head around how to get the just frame input, my execution is so inconsistent.
I'm good on 2p I suck at it on 1p unless I do the QCB method
I'm still learning
Thank you
Recently I bought my first arcade stick specifically to play tekken. Nothing too fancy obviously I just got a cheap one to try the feeling of it. Needless to say, I was pretty mad when I found out that I lost all my movement skills on pad although I could easily do harder stuff like electrics lol
How do you do a koreelan back dash with a silent sanwa? Would you happen to know? Because it's different. You get the extra back input when you slide the lever to back and before you release it to neutral.
I've been playing Tekken for almost 3 years now, and the whole time I've been using pad. I want to be able to use this kind of method, but I haven't seen any pad tutorials. Are there any tips and tricks I need to know for that?
You press BB for the first back,
Holding the B and then press down to get a downback command,
Then you release the downback to get a neutral, and press again Back once to get another backdash,
Holding the back you press down and so on, repeating this process.
Its the same exact thing you watched here, except on pad you wanna buffer the downback input to be optimal and precise.
It's in my opinion actually easier on pad cause you only need a single motion with one finger
love your videos man
This technique helps for all fighting games
i'm still confused I let my stick go back to neutral but i'm not getting my second back input for some reason
I can't get mine to do it consistently
@@Giraffinator It's about timing, you can't press back again too fast or too slow, once you hit a couple times you just kinda remember it and you can do it multiple times. Try pressing back as soon as the stick goes back to neutral, it has to be pretty quick.
@@ramireini the input display literally shows d/b, N not d/b, b, N
Not sure how pressing back after neutral is gonna help with that
@@Giraffinator Starting from standing: b, b, d/b, n, b, d/b, n, b and you continue that. Notice how it's just "d/b, n, b" repeating.
I’m looking into getting a Korean stick. And one where I can easily put inside a Qanba pearl with out needed to be modded or cut into, in order to instal it. Is there any you could recommend if you know of any?
With 2p i've got the motion down, its just when I start to do it fast I'll miss either miss a neutral input or just about miss the d/b switch. it doesn't matter how slow I practice the moment I speed up I'll get these issues
For some reason even letting my stick return to neutral from db won’t provide an extra back upon release. If anyone knows why it would be extremely appreciated, I’m playing on a Panthera btw.
That's because it isn't the db that provides the extra back, it just so happens that when we let go of downback the stick (usually) 'slides' past back on its way to neutral. That's where you get the extra back from. Try to make your stick pass through back when you let go from downback.
Keanu Linkers it seems like most people get the b input off their db pretty effortlessly with little bias towards a b input, pretty strange.
I can properly KBD on the left side but, I have tried right side for weeks and cant do it what, I doing wrong
If I let go of back, I get a down usually. I have to be really finnicky with the stick to get a back input.
This made sense until I actually tried it I went into practice mode after watching this and tried, but I dont get the extra back after the downback. It is either a down or it goes straight to nuetral. To get the extra back I have to do a wierd movement like tracing an upside down L back and forth. Is that what you are supposed to do?
Still don't get it 1 thing. 🤔
How i suppose to do it without visible crouch.
In this video on fastest I can't see Bryan crouching 😳
Got my first ever stick yesterday after over 20 years playing tekken on a pad, i just cant do some movement inputs on the controller. I feel like a totally new player again trying to get used to the stick tho lol. I'm holding it like you kind of but the ball sits inbetween my little finger and ring finger. Is that a poor grip? It feels comfortable but awkward on moving backwards.
You'll be happy to know that I e if the most legendary fighting game players of all time holds the stick like that. It's called "The Daigo Grip"
Is it really holding d/b that saves for extra b?
When I tried it, I didn't work. It's the qcb that you do, that goes to backdash. It's even visible on your command history.
That confused me until I realized that it's qcf, not just d/b to * to b.
It's not, it's the release of d/b that hits the back on it's way up to neutral. You basically have to use your hand position to "encourage" the stick back to neutral while slightly grazing the back input
@@tranceaddict11 it's still not [d/b, ☆] that gives b. But in video it says like it is. Which is not true.
@@franca1567 Can't remember what was said in the video but the input isn't buffered as you realized. It just comes down to releasing db into neutral in a way that registers a back by gently sliding on the angle of your hand position, rather than letting go raw from db into neutral
Maybe the video said it wrong, but the buffer in reality means that your release from db to neutral (when slightly tilted to obtain it) buffers a back input, so you only need to hit back once again to get a backdash. That's what is usually meant by buffering in this case. I can understand the confusion tho
Great stuff man!
trying to do it and all my character does is ducking after backdash or steps to the sown side
Hi cutcc and thanks for this great video. 👍 However I've got a problem that I'd like to tell you.
Although I manage to get more and more consistant KBDs I can't obtain the famous inputs command line "b,db,b b,db,b b,db,b b,db,b ...." on my command list. Indeed I've always got "db,b b db,b b db,b b db,b b ....".
As you can see there's always a space before the "db" and after the following "b" related to a neutral position. Actually it seems that I need to get an isolated "b" in order to succeed my KBDs. If I don't respect this neutral position twice at these precise moments, nothing happens. If I respect the "b,db,b" command nothing happens too.
I've to specify that I play on PS4 and that I possess a Nacon Daija arcade stick. Moreover I use a more resistant ressort (1kg/2lbs) than the original one.
Would you know why I can't enter this particular command inputs list ? Unless it's not so important since I manage to succeed my KBDs better and better. 🤔
Anyway I wish I were clear enough. 😅
Friendly.
hey cutcc, great vid but when you say you can let the stick go to neutral from the down back position, you are forgetting about the back input before the neutral state. because of the spring mechanism of the joystick and the position of our hands/fingers, alot of the times that back input happens naturally when letting the stick go, however there are times when the back input does not happen when letting the stick go and in that case, it will not result in a kbd. essentially, the idea of a back input stored within a down back input is false. at 4:40 it happens. you went from d/b directly to neutral, and then back, and as a result the back dash did not come out. many people forget about this in their kbd tutorial. just letting you know.
Benjamin Lee what stick you use?
Hmmm that does make sense in a way. But I can't help thinking that if the spring mechanism gives us a back input before the neutral state, then Db (Let the Stick Go)B, n B should also result in a backdash, but it doesn't (at 4:30, Db~b~Db~b or B~db~B~db results in nothing)--which gives more validity to Db, n (Input Buffer Release)B, B as the one that results in the backdash. So I think that the "extra back" still comes out after the neutral, but only conditionally (If you input an extra command and you input it within the right window of time). I believe that at 4:40 when the backdash did not come out that was just because I didn't go into neutral enough and allow for the input buffer window to take place--in essence I did it too fast and did Db~B. Even when I was recording and 4:40 happen in my head I was like, "Oops, bad timing..."
But you could be right and the "B' due to the spring mechanism creates a new input buffer phase. I will look into this further.
Gundogdogdog Hori RAP 4
cutcc I am not sure if there is any input buffering at all when doing a kbd. I think it is truly just raw input. This input is the raw input I use when I kbd:
1. back, neutral, back, neutral, (that represents the very first back dash)
2. down back, slide up directly to back (this slide up to back part is the part that usually happens on it's own when "letting the stick go"), neutral, back, neutral.
Repeating step 2 results in multiple kbd.
I have a Problem with my Stick when i Release my Fingers i get b,db,b....
This is kind of strange but hear me out. This the the same method I learned to smoothly repeat ewgf, but in reverse. Huh, crazy....
Wow, good work, Ill try to practice this when my arcade stick will come to me, btw what sticks you use?
Qanba Eightarc Fusion
Thanks again for being so responsive! One thing I’m getting stuck on while cleaning up my form is maintain clean 2P dash blocks. When I was using a hybrid grip with fingertips, I got fast responsiveness with comfort but imprecision. Using my hand bones on the palm to backdash is so much cleaner, but I struggle in the deadzone between my thumb dashing forward and palm moving to block. Do you have any experience wihh th this? Just a matter of practice?
Hmm I'm not quite sure what you mean by thumb dashing forward and palm moving to block, could you elaborate on that? I occasionally use my thumb to sidestep cancel but I don't really experience any deadzones, not that I can remember.
I'm just gonna use mix box or hitbox thankyou lol
P1 side is a slow learner but im able to do it. cant even get a backdash from crouch on P2 though and i been trying for over an hour .... really frustrating. i understand the mechanics of how it works but unable to do it .
I can’t use my top finger for some reason so doing KBD is really hard for me . I use middle ring and my pinky
If anyone can answer me I'd appreciate it . my input history is " b,dnb,b b " there's an extra b input I get every time . What triggers it , is the b after the neutral . The result seems fine and it looks like im getting the backdash cancel . Now obviously , I'm gonna need some time before I can loop the backdash cancel together , so I can't quite judge whether the extra b input is going to affect the end result or not
I hope someone can help me with this
So I have an issue. Maybe someone can help.
When I let go of db, nothing happens. It has only inputted db and not db b. When you do it the system recognises an extra b after you let go. I’m using the Razer Panthera Evo stick.
Yeah this is one of the things that messed me up when I was learning for the first time, I'm not sure why there are a lot of tutorials that suggest that releasing the stick from d/b to neutral will result in a free back input, it is not free you need to release the stick to neutral via back by guiding the stick ever so slightly, releasing too sharply will just get you this input: b, d/b, n instead of the desired b, d/b, b, n.
This was a great video tutorial! My 1 player side is perfect but I still cant do 2p side on stick after months of practice. On pad I can do both sides perfect. Should I just stick with pad?