An Easy Way To Raise Or Reduce Deer Numbers
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ต.ค. 2024
- Make sure to check out my series of advanced whitetail hunting and habitat books, at: www.whitetailh...
One way to raise or reduce deer numbers is by applying a little or a lot, of trigger control. However, I've experienced a much easier way to control the deer population on your land, and it works on a range of poor to perfect habitats, across the entire Country. It all begins or ends with a concept I refer to as a doe factory.
To read the details within the article, please check out: www.whitetailh...
Spent almost 10 minutes talking about how to increase deer number.....and spent 2 seconds on how to reduce deer number ??? Please !
When I was a young man, get the ladies to the party and the boys will come also. If you have limited hunting time and save your hunting days for the rut keep the ladies happy. So if your a meat hunter. Take a doe or two and hold out for the big boy how will come by
Always remember there is a tipping point. At some point of balance the more does that you have, the fewer the number of bucks you will find. Moderate doe numbers are great...excessive very bad. IF you want to hunt the oldest bucks in the neighborhood...
Every single video I learn something! Thank you!
That's great to hear Leland I appreciate you watching!
On our 40 acre hobby farm parcel in mid-north Minnesota we noticed a staggering difference in does/fawns to bucks with our first go at summer food plots (summer peas). We are literally surrounded by AG - corn to the north and south, beans to the east and west, and aside from the wondering bucks, our buck sightings dropped significantly as opposed to sticking with just fall plots. This answers how that happened (we still got a great buck off the property we hadn't seen on trail cam at all, mid-rut. But, with so many does, the rationale is obvious there) and what I need to look at to fix it. Don't get me wrong, it was great and funny to have a friggin deer farm of does and see them bounding across the drive, creek and into the adjacent ag fields, but, man, it killed our buck herd. Thanks for the very insightful video, as always. Really helps a newb getting into QDM figure out what tweaks here and there do what, and when we see what you talk about, it really hits home.
Very interesting, thanks for sharing!
You are very welcome Eric!
You dont have enough does on property.bucks will leave to find girls.
Sounds like you are running out of ways to tell hunters what they are doing wrong.
My opinion is this is an example of overthinking QDM.
RiverRat Pat this is just an easy concept that I have seen repeated across nearly a dozen states...hundreds of parcels. Important tool for landowners to learn, whether they need to raise or lower deer numbers. It's a solution for landowners, to help explain why they have done so much, but find diminishing returns. You have to keep in mind I get paid a lot of money to teach clients what is going on with their land, in particular after they have been frustrated after a few years of doing everything...but not getting the results that they need. This is an easy one to diagnose, and a pattern I see happening often on some of the most improved whitetail parcels out there. Just trying to help folks out, based on a lot of experience. Like I said...pretty easy concept that can offer a helpful solution to a majority of landowners. You can use the doe factory concept to raise populations in low population areas...and decrease populations in high population areas. Been writing about it for many years...
I hear you Jeff. And I have seen you post replies similar replies such as this. Half of the reply is somewhat of your resume. I tried to contact you personally but got no response. Most resumes have references. Of the 100’s of parcels all over the country you have helped, I wouldn’t mind the opportunity to talk to these past clients. I’m not here to jam you up over a couple videos I don’t agree with. I’d like to see or hear testimony from your clients over the past 30 years. I hunt 34 acres just southeast of Atlanta. I would like to challenge you to come
to my property and pick it apart. I have credentials too. I just don’t feel the need to list them. I watch your videos because I’ve learned a thing or two and tried some things that didn’t work also. Have a great morning Jeff.
Fellow Hunter,
pat
RiverRat Pat the problem with all of this is that everyone has an opinion, but very, very few can actually can offer any experience behind their opinion. Many of these things I have seen and helped clients with for many years...not 30 years, but since I began my business in 2005. I think it's important for folks to know the level of experience of the person they are discussing things with, online. The doe factory problem is one I have helped clients with that have had serious problems on their lands. It's a pretty black and white problem that is easily corrected.
As far as contacting me, unless it is to schedule a site visit, I really don't respond to online or over the email site analysis...just don't have the time. If you had a site visit contact, someone from my team would have contacted you quickly. Maybe check the spam email? It comes from an info@ email, and sometimes it gets stuck there. Atlanta area is a fly-in fee of $4950 + airfare, and then all my other visits are 5-7 parcels in 6-8 days out of the same hotel, typically in MI, WI, MN...most often serving IA, MN, WI, MI, OH, IL during my 5-7 parcel trips. I basically build around single areas with frequent clients to stay in 1 motel, and then most of the rest are the straight fly-in trip, and I travel to 2-3 parcels a year in that manner. I apologize if you didn't get a response. We get dozens a week asking about info for their own land and try to let them know out of fairness to clients and lack of time we can't respond to their actual question...I would need a full time staff just to handle all of the questions. Which is why I respond to discussions on social media, so it may help many people with the response, and not just some.
And that leads back to the doe factory discussion. It is a serious problem across the country, hitting folks that often work on their land the hardest. It cost landowners lots of expense and lots of time, as well as the results they are looking for. On small parcels you can't wait for it to be scientifically proven, or with many concepts you will be left behind. That's where experience matters, greatly.
Basically I feel my career is to visit clients for 9 months, hunt very seriously in multiple states for 3 months, create about 20 pieces of whitetail content per month all year long, along with a book or two every couple of years...based on that experience in the field.
Hunters can take or leave the advice, but it's important for them to know what level of experience the concepts are based on. In today's content driven world, there is a lot of opinions not based on anything, or loosely based on a single parcel or two within a single region. I have a strong passion for helping people find solid info that is based on a high level of experience. I think there is value in that and I hope that you do to. Doesn't mean we will always agree, but it's important to know where the opinions are coming from.
$4950 + airfare...!!....I think I just threw up in my mouth a little. In my opinion it sounds as if your clients have too much money and not enough time to put boots on their own property. In steps a consultant. I could be wrong.
Bottom line is the deer on my property/area are going to act different from the deer in all the cold states you listed with wide open country and crops. There is a lot of competition in the Piedmont area of Georgia. This competition along with small hunting parcels directly effects the deer behavior. My opinion is the information on social media is is far from textbook. The stages of rut I believe are constant, but I feel it ends there. Different strokes for folks. Thank you for your reply.
RiverRat Pat I work with folks of all walks of life. I would say the average parcel size is 100 acres, and roughly 1/2 each year, are 60 acres or less. Most are extremely serious deer hunters who simply want to create the best land, herd and hunt that they can. Tomorrow I fly to Mississippi for a client. My fly-ins are 3 days and I like the fly-ins because I travel to distant states. Deer react the same everywhere, just to varying degrees of balance. I visit a Virginia parcel in April. Landowners read my books, the concepts make sense with what they have seen, and they want me to apply those concepts to their land. While the concepts remain the same, the application of balance changes drastically from heavily wooded wilderness parcels to open ag, from North to South, from large deer herds to small, by neighboring pressure, cover or food, parcel size and landowner resources. It's one big giant puzzle and I come up with their design by the end if the visit. My daily fee averages $2700...and I turn away more clients than I can take. On a fly in fee I actually lose money per day based on visiting 3 separate parcels in 3 days...but I love working in distant states. A lot. I believe I have worked in right around 24-25 states and I love doing so, because you get to see, experience scout and confirm how deer react based on all of the complexities and concepts that I teach. You see the same exact patterns repeat themselves over and over again.
Like I said my clients are from all walks of life, many are passionate QDMA supporters who sometimes have over improved their parcels. A doe factory is a common problem with easy solutions...over 1/2 the lands I visit have doe factories. While different factors contribute to a doe factory (lack of food supported cover, lack of food source consistency, poor hunting practices, etc), Summer food sources are the most major culprit.
I appreciate the discussion! I am extremely blessed to be able to do what I do for a full time career. I started in 2005 at $500 per day...it has taken many years and a lot of hard work to get to this point. I love scouting whitetails for a living...and then writing about my observations and making videos about it all, as well. It's all based on the scientific biological base concepts of adequate buck age structure, improved sex ratios and populations maintained in balance with the habitat, and then a whole lot of experience added in.
I own 80 acres in IN. I've followed Jeff Sturgis, Jim Ward in Whitetail Academy, and also Jake Ehlinger. The things I've personally experienced on my farm are nearest to spot on with Jeff's videos. I've seen the different things he explains over the last 20 years, some positive, some negative. It took me over 15 years to be sold on some of these techniques but so far, they've proven to be true every time. My opinion, this video is very accurate.
Thanks a lot for the feedback Shawn! While the concepts hold true everywhere, the application of balance is determined by so many localized...even parcel specific...factors.
Some concepts folks don't like to hear or they are hard pills to swallow, but Lord willing I will keep teaching from my experiences as long as humanly possible! I really have a passion for helping hunters...
Your feedback means a lot to me and I really appreciate it...
@@whitetailhabitatsolutions9751 well I base my knowledge on whitetail on proof and facts. While, as you said, sometimes it can in fact be a hard pill to swallow, sometimes we simply have to open our minds to what we actually experience, regardless of old time beliefs of our dads or granddads. I'd really like to sit down and talk to you sometime if you ever get in my area. I hunt from KY to Coldwater Michigan. I manage some farms throughout and I recently started a business doing the same things you do. Most of my practices are based off your videos, simply because they've proven themselves. I work full time in a machine shop, and I started buying standing timber and veneer logs a few years ago. I'm starting to get out of that and more into the habitat end of things because that's what I'm passionate about, same as you. Lol. I just had a drone fly over my farm taking videos last Sunday. This cold weather has the all the neighborhood deer hanging out on my farm. 92 deer in my fields last Friday evening. Lol. A discussion with you over coffee or a beer or lunch sometime would be very much appreciated if you get in the area. May God bless you and have a good day. Stay warm, it's stupid cold here right now, I can only imagine how it is up north. Lol
Ya in Indiana we have GREAT deer but IDIOTS hunting them ! I pass on at least 3-5 140 inch deer EVERY year and if they even stick their noses across the fence they're dead ! Then the guys take pics from way behind so the deer looks bigger and post it to FB ....
Jeff. Quality video. You wrote a plan for me on my then 120 in Mellen Wi around 2007 I think. up to 140ac now. Planting for does has been my goal so I can increase the herd. It carries them into the fall but by first week of October my plots look like putting greens. Seem to have 6-8 Deer living there eating on maybe 2 ac of food plots. Don’t see bucks on summer cams. They show up in fall. I’m adding 6.5 ac of plots this year. Clear cuts in timber. Slowly implementing your plan.
Neil...been too long! O found over the years in the UP of MI that I did not need the Summer food. The does and fawns would be near, but weren't there to destroy my plots before the season started. They always came back and so did the bucks, but they came back to a much higher volume of food that allowed me to get a lot more impact out of my plot acreage for the hunting season. Hope the land is going strong right now!
Ok maybe I missed something. But why not just whack more does
It's better to have a balanced herd, and not have to wack as many if you don't have to. Every time you pull the trigger you are adding pressure to your land. Some landowners have so many does they can't keep up. Does take up space and keep mature bucks off of many small parcels.
Bottom line tho, it is very easy to raise or reduce numbers on a well managed parcel. Eliminating Summer food has many benefits to the entire herd and hunt, in most ag areas. In fact in many areas, for small parcel landowners.
I have found in most cases landowners have a much higher level of control than they realize...
for where I hunt there is about 1 buck for every 3 to 5 doe
Best this for a deer herd is limited human pressure food at the right times of the year by the way go hunting have fun being out there
Thanks Jerry and you get out there and enjoy too! Always love it...
Jeff, 120 acres northern wisconsin. Thick popple on nearly all 120. Only 2 acres of food plots broken out into about 6 kill plots. Right now, planted all Clover and have a SERIOUS doe factory issue. MATURE buck sightings decreasing every year.
My question: How can you eliminate summer food when you really need to be rotating crops? Over the last 5 years, we bounce between clover and brassicas, rotating every year. That said, you inevitably will have to have summer food? Am i thinking about this correclty or is there some other summer crop you can plant in conjuction with brassicas that won't draw every doe in the neighborhood?
Chadilac Nissen great question and a huge problem! On my land in the UP of MI I cut out all Summer crops the last few years, holding onto less than an acre of clover scattered on the edges of my 14 plots totalling 8 acres.
In the plots I manage now, I plant zero Summer food. A great remedy is to cut your brassica blend poundage in 1/2, and then replace that 3-4 pounds of mix with 7-8 pounds per acre of tillage radish. The tillage radish root systems leaves free nitrogen in the ground the following year after it rots in the Spring and improves soil quality. Just keep the weeds clean on the field. On the other portion of the field (I cut mine in 1/2), make sure to have a healthy dose of rye layered of early August plantings of peas and light oats...100#s+per acre of peas, 30-40#s oats per acre...and then allow the rye to grow the following year, tilling under prior to planting brassica (brassica follows rye, rye follows brassica). Or till the rye under at a manageable height for your equipment. That ways zero Summer food...but great soil builders coming in on both halves.
I'm a discouraged yooper, I guess I grew up kinda spoiled with the property I hunted in my youth. For the last 25 year's I've been hunting an 80 acre parcel and am fully aware of how small that is. The property to the south is CFR and was clear cut just prior to us buying the property, now it's grown and thinning and offer's very little food and sparce cover, no winter cover. Our property is mostly hard maple that we had select cut about 8 years ago, lot's of rasberry and other growth coming in. State land borders the north which in the past looked like a KOA, fortunately the army of trolls has subsided since the deer numbers are down from the high of the 90s. Have 4 plots across the south side the largest is about 5 or 6 acres. Plant them all in rye for Fall hunting and by November they're gone. Is it even possible to manage this property with all the surrounding pressure.
My question is what do you plant in your food plots to avoid all the weeds? Spring planting gives you a great opportunity to build soil and nutrients. And if you plant the right thing, you can avoid a ton of spraying to get your plot prepped.
This goes against planting rye, crimping and then doing no-till into the thatch which likely your least expensive way to control weeds and build the soil. I'd love some input on proper rotation to prep your soil for a July planting of brassicas, a late aug planting of oats, peas, and winter rye with some groundhog radish (Fall Forage). This is basically Paul Knox's approach.
Planting winter rye.........allowing it to go to seed in July....... leave it until late August.......then roll it.....or culti-pack it. The seed will grow back on its own.....year after year.
Ive done this for years.
It's real hard to manipulate a deer herd no matter what you do!
jason h I find that it isn't as hard as a lot of folks think! I hope the information shared hear helps folks think outside of the box, because most have so much more potential than they ever could imagine
Love your videos keep it up!
Thank you very much, I will do my best to do so...I have several more coming out over the next week so stayed tuned and I hope they help you out this year! I really appreciate the feedback...keeps me fired up to keep at it!
One amazing way reduce the deer herd is to have a neighbor that poaches them year round.
This is one of the only things I'm not 100% convinced on. Perhaps it's true though. It's just hard for me to fathom that does put enough stress on bucks to push them off. Bucks and does often want to bed in different spots for different reasons (does more visual and community oriented while bucks are a bit more geared towards wind based bedding for individualistic reasons). For that reason, there shouldn't be a lot of stress over bedding in the summer. I could picture does being protective of young in the summer. I just am on the fence as to if they run them off. It would be interesting to see more studies conducted as to why a buck might choose a certain summer ground (social reasons like solitude or connecting with a buddy bachelor, food, cover, etc).
Chip's Outdoor Channel the problem isn't during the Summer months. During the Summer deer bedding opportunity is spread far and wide. While does need the same cover for both Summer and Fall, bucks need drastically different cover from Summer to Fall. When a parcel has too many does during the Summer, those doe often stay and when they do, the amount of food taken into the Fall is limited and if those does stay, they take up space.
The problem is with scientific studies is that they are impossible to complete on a wide scale for small parcels. So what I do is scout client parcels across a wide range, observe and draw conclusions based on a wealth of experience. Although I can never say I am right 100% on anything...I can say that I most likely have more experience than anyone else in the country, making these observations. The doe factory concept is a very real problem around the country. It all boils back to what habitat needs bucks have vs does, during the Summer and Fall. It's not necessarily that does kick off the bucks...but more like as a buck ages he tolerates less and less social stress.
Like I said I can't say I am 100% right on this...but it is a concept I have observed repeatedly on hundreds of parcels in nearly 2 dozen states. I hope it helps tho, because it's a real important concept for folks to understand....
I didn't mean to imply that I'm trying to discredit you. I've read a lot of what you've written and agree with most or all of it. I just meant that I'm kind of on the fence about the idea. Perhaps doe factories are why I see bucks on camera during summer and they've been relocating outside of the rut the past couple years. You have far more knowledge on the matter for sure though so I'm trying to understand better and think through it based on experience and logic.
I've seen bucks push does out of beds and then bed down there, which indicates to me that they are more dominant than does. You clarified above that it's more of a social stress than a dominance factor though. I could see that being a possibility. My mind was having a hard time picturing it though, because it's typically does that shy away from bucks, young or old, when does and bucks are together from what I've seen. If they relocate because does are eating all the food, I'd say that's more about food than social stress perhaps (maybe that's nitpicking though).
If what you say is true, it would be strange for bucks to relocate after antlers harden in late August/early Sept. (at least where I'm located). If does stay in the same doe-factory spots and cover isn't much different at that time, why would the dominant bucks in bachelor groups sometimes relocate at that time? I don't think it's a cover/security issue at that point (at least not much until about mid-October). I could see the shift from areas with good summer food to good fall food being one reason. Does don't relocate, so there shouldn't be any more social stress causing bucks to shift summer to fall ranges. I love your content. I just feel like I might be missing something with this particular concept?
Chip's Outdoor Channel appreciate the follow up! Bucks relocate because they need a drastically different set of habitat types from Summer to Fall.
Around here in SW WI the hay gets it's last cutting in early Sept, beans are brown and hunters hit the woods. That means that their Summer food sources are gone, and the hardwood canopy they called home and needed during the antler growing season, is not enough cover. On top of that once the antlers turn hard, testosterone starts to rise and bucks begin to separate from their large bachelor groups.
The only...absolute only...time if the year a buck will dominate a doe is during the rut, and that is a very brief time if the year. Even then I've seen does kicking a young buck's butt during that time of the year too.
If a land is dominated by does they not only eat the resources early and often during the beginning of the hunting season, but they take over the land and cover. Bucks literally have no room left to bed during the daytime and in neighborhoods full if similar properties, buck ages structure can actually be reduced because even middle aged bucks have nowhere to hide and get away from the social stresses of the female portion of the herd.
By keeping does off a parcel in high numbers during the Summer, a landowner can expect a slow trickle of doe family groups into late September and early October, about the same time bucks are moving back to their Fall ranges. Does are still present of course, but you can experience a much more balanced herd. Also, that means more daylight pics of bucks because they are bedding closer on the land, AND because the parcel is more balanced and inviting to bucks...even during the rut.
Chip's Outdoor Channel I see this concept at work on over 50% of the lands I visit each year...roughly 30 parcels across the country. The nocturnal pics, the excessive doe numbers, the excessive doe family groups on large supplies of Summer food, the presence of mature bucks only during the rut...hunters not being able to hunt until the rut because the mature bucks don't show up until then. Very easy remedies, but extremely common.
Jeff, thanks for the reply. Around me, NWSG get cut in May. Usually we don't, but sometimes we'll cut again in August. Surrounding properties have fescue. We have no Ag nearby that I'm aware of. For those reasons, cover doesn't change much in September where I am.
It took me a while, but I thinking I'm getting what you're throwing down. I 100% agree that large #'s of does can put stress on food and therefore bucks. I personally haven't seen a lot of does pushing off bucks which was why I was hesitant about it. It's definitely something I'm going to consider and keep an eye on. If I see that, it will be a great indication that does need to be harvested.
Finding that right balance of removing does, in my case, and keeping low hunting pressure will certainly be difficult (I read your article about that as well). I'm a few days deep into applying some of your tactics for habitat improvement. I've started with edge feathering or providing field screening which will help with stand access as well as doe bedding and food. Not quite into the other improvements yet. It's going to be a long process, but I'm looking forward to this season and beyond to see how things progress. Hopefully, this will ease some of the stress on buck bedding. Thanks for your time and sharing your experiences!
Great video
jason h thank you very much Jason! I will do my best to keep them coming...