@@dzperformance7360 and 50 pounds lighter thats big at race track you unbolt inner fender wells on that Camaro Thats almost 200 pounds that Camaro will kick ass Big HP Dont mean squat Torq makes GForce any good racer will shift while he has tork lin last gear you stand on but its faster to shift up if you have gear I have 97 6 speed stock lt1 3130 no gas and driver 3440 350 horse 420 torq 11 second Quarter mile Camaros Hook like no other I beat 600 horse cars all day and twice on friday most let off peddle or keep it pegged Half clutch to clear linkage and lift 1 inch and hit it almost doubles the tork and gforce I hit 690 ft pounds of tork with 3-4 shift with gutted cats and stock exaust manifolds that are ported out Stock 2 1/2 inch 2 into 1 muffler 2 outlets its factory Hooker Superformance system. TB is 807 cfm lol just took on new cobra with crank what a gutless piece sound like indy car but cant get to high rpm before i am in other state lol SBCs Forever
People don't forget that. It depends where the torque is though, all the torque in the world does you no good if you're beaten by a Honda because you can't hook it on the street
Great video! Great combination. 👍 Forget the critics. You do you. Your channel is awesome and it's about discovering things that work well for different applications. It's not for everyone. There are other channels out there to stroke people's egos. Too many magazine heros back in the 90s and early 2000s that made everyone think making 400 HP with a 350 and Vortec heads was child's play. It's not. A dyno cell is not the real world. The correction numbers you showed prove that! Thank you for showing those! Keep on keepin' on, man! You're doing great! 👍
I thought this test / comparison was very interesting. I really like walking through different components/combos to understand what the fruits of your labor would be for each option.
Cool test. Those heads flow well all the way to .600” lift. The cam definitely held the motor back. I had these heads CnC ported by Straub technologies to 200 cc’s. With an off the shelf xtreme energy comp cam I made 525 with my 406. I had mine ported before the 200 cc ere available.
Sweet thanks for the vid. Interesting results. I watched Eric's flow test video also and it looks like your pocket port work did more to the engine then the flow test showed. 229cfm vs 249cfm on the heads only resulted in about 10hp. BTW I just finished a very similar build but using the similar size Voodoo cam but ground on a wider LSA for a supercharger. Dart pro 1 aluminum heads fully ported. It's good to see I'll probably make more then my original estimate of 415HP without the supercharger.
Thank you fee sharin, have had few 400s and very similar builds ,loved em ...currently have got one with vortec hds and am surprised for a stock head and a later yr version with stock company valves was impressed
Thanks for doing this. I think your 3 hours per head of porting work made the 186 much better than stock. The test would have more significant I think if they were bone stock.
You're right I discount my head porting abilities because I never took official training, and yes my experience tells me the 186's would have been killed if they were bone stock
The real question is how much room for improvement do the TrickFlow heads have? What would 3 hours of work in each of those heads net you? Widening and raising the short turns and opening up the pushrod pinch? 3 hours in aluminum could be some major changes!! I know they are CNC chamber and "bowl blend" but the valvejob usually leaves a pretty good "Step" above and below the seats. That alone is a major killer.
The Cam shaft peaked the 186 double hump out at5800 rpm but TrickFlow deserved more Cam which would've peaked at about 6500 would've equate to between 450 to 500 hp going with a bigger Cam.
Great video and enjoyed the knowledge. The 186 heads maybe hard to find, but what about the 492 heads? Aren't they the same as the 186, and I see them around. Same head but GM's off the shelf model from the same years. I have a set on a 1970 LT 1 now. Thanks
I like the Trick Flows but, my personal opinion is that the 175CC runner is a little restrictive for a 400/406. Especially when you get up in the 5500 RPM range. I think that a cheapo AFR Enforcer 195CC head would make 15 to 20 HP more with the same combo and money spent. However, these Trick Flows would work like magic on a smaller cubic inch engine. My two cents worth...
But in defense on testing these 175cc heads on a big smallblock,, I knew I was going to use this small flat.Tap . cam and it wasn't going to produce a lot of horsepower but really good tq.
I would love to know how the 2 sets of head would do with a better cam. I am really contemplating. Getting my self a set of these trick flows.. Awesome video, thank you.
Thanks. For the insightful comments,, I'm beting with a bigger Cam the spread between the two sets of heads would get wider,, The trick flows would do better and the factory heads would fall off.
I'm going back to the shop today and going to do another video on a different 406 sbc I got that i'm fond of, just because we've had such good conversations about this one
Great heads bud, not sure for boost, I have a set of 200 cfm 292 heads intake and valve covers, 292 heads came on 69 4 speed stingray, heads have 40k miles on them, they totaled everything they were in
@@ChrisMcCutcheon-wj2pp The 292 "turbo" castings were never on a production vehicle, ever. Nor do they hold a candle to even the cheapest offshore sold, except perhaps anything marketed by Slowmaster.
@@dzperformance7360 good power out of that cam. You could put a 236/242 at 108 lca. And sure it would make more but that's probably what your are after. Yours makes some good low-end torque. Great for a heavy street car or truck.
Nick - You do a great job on these videos. I really enjoy. Question…I was talking with a performance engine builder this week about GM 400 blocks. He has had trouble with them, both 511 and 509 castings to the point where he will no longer use them for customer builds. This hasn’t been the case for me or anyone else that I know that has ran them. What’s your opinion? I’m talking using them for solid roller builds up to 600 or so hp. I haven’t heard of anyone else having trouble with one around here, even using a moderate amount of nitrous. Your thoughts would be appreciated.
I've always had great luck with 509cast# small blocks almost all of my 400ci builds have been in the 509 casting number but I've always been worned by the older guys and machine shop to keep them under 600 horse I've never had one over 550 hp.so I have no experience above that performance but I know they holdi in their great at 550 horse
Every race part I have is for sale, 408 sbc with performer heads, 292 angle plug heads, 375 turbo Trans now a 400, 823 ls3 heads, Kinsler fuel injection plus pump gas or alcohol
The trick flow heads with 175 cc intake ports probably made more than a set of overrated Vortec heads. That’s a small port, not much bigger than stock. Still a good street engine. If you want more rpm’s, get a 350. You could spin the 400, but stock rotating parts in 350’s will go past 6500 all day long. Upgrade the 400 with better rods and you can have rpm’s.
Amen to the vortec being overrated,, I'm not gonna argue.They're good heads, but so many people believe they're just the fix .Everything/ best horsepower on a small block possible..
One thing not taken into account- aluminum heads require a point more compression to make the same power and require the same octane. Both are good heads though.
The 400’s claim to fame was 400 ft pounds of torque with a 2 barrel carb in 1970. The hp was 245-265 gross hp. That’s not really impressive. For comparison the 1970 Camaro Corvetter LT-1 350 made 360-370 gross hp. In 1974 the Z28 350 9:1 engine made 245 hp net, so still around 330hp gross. So for the 400 with some stock small valve heads to make 330 hp gross, pretty decent. But it had a 770 carb and better intake and probably headers on the dyno. And the aluminum heads probably flow more than that small cam is allowing, that’s why you are only seeing 430hp. The double heads made 422 hp. Pretty decent since they are just cleaned up heads with minor port work.
The cam is way wrong, you can run a stock crank stock bottom end to 6k rpm no problem. This engine can make 515 hp 530 torque with nothing more than a cam swap
3 3/4 stroke not 4 3/4, even with the stock bottom end that engine should make close to 500 . Those heads don't flow enough for a big engine, if you would have went with 200cc heads even world sportsman's 8t would be much stronger.
Yeah, I wasn't going to record the whole thing over again.There's a correction in the Video description, Most of the world know what I was talking about.
@dzperformance7360 I could be off, but I wouldn't expect it to make 500 horse with a 224° at .050 cam in 406, especially with those heads. I don't think you could with any head and that duration really.
Everyone knows what you're talking about with the heads not having enough CSA to feed those cubes. Everyone. You don't have top secret knowledge over everyone. That's not what this test was about though, it was about whether the old ones make as much power as the new copies.
Back in 1985 I used same 268 comp w/performer & 600cfm . At 16yrs old in a 64 Chevy 2 was really quick !! Cool build
That a perfect street motor. People forget torque is the winner on the street in a daily hot rod.
Yes, I believe that's correct. You can put this engine in a car with a 3.08 gear and it would be great. /A lot of fun to drive
@@dzperformance7360 and 50 pounds lighter
thats big at race track you unbolt inner fender wells on that Camaro
Thats almost 200 pounds that Camaro will kick ass
Big HP Dont mean squat Torq makes GForce
any good racer will shift while he has tork lin last gear you stand on but its faster to shift up if you have gear
I have 97 6 speed stock lt1 3130 no gas and driver 3440
350 horse 420 torq 11 second Quarter mile
Camaros Hook like no other I beat 600 horse cars all day and twice on friday
most let off peddle or keep it pegged
Half clutch to clear linkage and lift 1 inch and hit it
almost doubles the tork and gforce I hit 690 ft pounds of tork
with 3-4 shift with gutted cats and stock exaust manifolds
that are ported out Stock 2 1/2 inch 2 into 1 muffler 2 outlets
its factory Hooker Superformance system.
TB is 807 cfm
lol just took on new cobra with crank what a gutless piece
sound like indy car but cant get to high rpm before i am in other state lol
SBCs Forever
People don't forget that. It depends where the torque is though, all the torque in the world does you no good if you're beaten by a Honda because you can't hook it on the street
@@alonzahanks1182 do you need help typing your comments? Message if you do and we will figure you out some help
Great video! Great combination. 👍 Forget the critics. You do you. Your channel is awesome and it's about discovering things that work well for different applications. It's not for everyone. There are other channels out there to stroke people's egos. Too many magazine heros back in the 90s and early 2000s that made everyone think making 400 HP with a 350 and Vortec heads was child's play. It's not. A dyno cell is not the real world. The correction numbers you showed prove that! Thank you for showing those! Keep on keepin' on, man! You're doing great! 👍
You made my day with that comment!!!.Thank you so much
I thought this test / comparison was very interesting. I really like walking through different components/combos to understand what the fruits of your labor would be for each option.
Thanks for your positive comment
Good information
Makes me want to rebuild the '70 L46 engine that's been in storage for the last 30 years
Cool test. Those heads flow well all the way to .600” lift. The cam definitely held the motor back. I had these heads CnC ported by Straub technologies to 200 cc’s. With an off the shelf xtreme energy comp cam I made 525 with my 406. I had mine ported before the 200 cc ere available.
Hydraulic flat tappet or roller? Curious which size cam? Thanks
Solid roller xtreme energy 242/248 part number 12-771-8
Sweet thanks for the vid. Interesting results. I watched Eric's flow test video also and it looks like your pocket port work did more to the engine then the flow test showed. 229cfm vs 249cfm on the heads only resulted in about 10hp. BTW I just finished a very similar build but using the similar size Voodoo cam but ground on a wider LSA for a supercharger. Dart pro 1 aluminum heads fully ported. It's good to see I'll probably make more then my original estimate of 415HP without the supercharger.
Great results. Keep testing. I want to buy a motor from you someday. 😎😎😎😎⚡⚡⚡⚡👌👌👌👌👌👌👍👍👍👍
I wish I could build all my friends Chevy' hp out there
I really appreciate you taking the time to show us all the info!! 3 hrs on a gasket match and a general cleanup?! Wow your a ninja..lol
I just found your channel. I love it. Thanks for all the hard work.
Thank you fee sharin, have had few 400s and very similar builds ,loved em ...currently have got one with vortec hds and am surprised for a stock head and a later yr version with stock company valves was impressed
I’d really like to see the newer Trick Flow 200cc double humps on a 406.
Message trick flow and tell thim to loan me a set and I'll do it
You would? Why?
Thanks for doing this. I think your 3 hours per head of porting work made the 186 much better than stock. The test would have more significant I think if they were bone stock.
You're right I discount my head porting abilities because I never took official training, and yes my experience tells me the 186's would have been killed if they were bone stock
The real question is how much room for improvement do the TrickFlow heads have?
What would 3 hours of work in each of those heads net you? Widening and raising the short turns and opening up the pushrod pinch? 3 hours in aluminum could be some major changes!!
I know they are CNC chamber and "bowl blend" but the valvejob usually leaves a pretty good "Step" above and below the seats. That alone is a major killer.
The Cam shaft peaked the 186 double hump out at5800 rpm but TrickFlow deserved more Cam which would've peaked at about 6500 would've equate to between 450 to 500 hp going with a bigger Cam.
Every one thinks they have a 500 HP sb and they don't. This wasn't built has a race engine, these numbers aren't bad.
Great video and enjoyed the knowledge. The 186 heads maybe hard to find, but what about the 492 heads? Aren't they the same as the 186, and I see them around. Same head but GM's off the shelf model from the same years. I have a set on a 1970 LT 1 now. Thanks
Not sure
492 and 186 are basically the same heads. The chamber style is exactly the same. If the ports are different it would only be a few cfm
I like the Trick Flows but, my personal opinion is that the 175CC runner is a little restrictive for a 400/406. Especially when you get up in the 5500 RPM range. I think that a cheapo AFR Enforcer 195CC head would make 15 to 20 HP more with the same combo and money spent. However, these Trick Flows would work like magic on a smaller cubic inch engine. My two cents worth...
I believe you are correct
But in defense on testing these 175cc heads on a big smallblock,, I knew I was going to use this small flat.Tap
. cam and it wasn't going to produce a lot of horsepower but really good tq.
Wow that's quite the correction.😯😎👍
I would love to know how the 2 sets of head would do with a better cam. I am really contemplating. Getting my self a set of these trick flows.. Awesome video, thank you.
Thanks.
For the insightful comments,, I'm beting with a bigger Cam the spread between the two sets of heads would get wider,, The trick flows would do better and the factory heads would fall off.
Another great vid! I’m so curious, just like in your bbc vids, how much better the torque could be with a proper sized header for the application!
I'm going back to the shop today and going to do another video on a different 406 sbc I got that i'm fond of, just because we've had such good conversations about this one
@@dzperformance7360 We’ll be waiting impatiently! Good work bud!
Very cool 🤙 I'm building a 406 now for a turbo tpi setup which will eventually get the 462 sbc
Great heads bud, not sure for boost, I have a set of 200 cfm 292 heads intake and valve covers, 292 heads came on 69 4 speed stingray, heads have 40k miles on them, they totaled everything they were in
@@ChrisMcCutcheon-wj2pp The 292 "turbo" castings were never on a production vehicle, ever. Nor do they hold a candle to even the cheapest offshore sold, except perhaps anything marketed by Slowmaster.
@@yarrdayarrdayarrda 292 heads off a 69 375 hp 327, stingrays, solid lift were 200 cfm
That's exactly what I expected out of the test.
You and me are the only ones that expected that!! Everyone else read the magazine that says +70 horsepower
@@dzperformance7360 We both have seen more than most people I think about cylinder heads and small block Chevys.
@@dzperformance7360 The only magazine articles that have real testing is from DV. He has done alot of work and testing especially on the 186 castings.
@@dzperformance7360 good power out of that cam. You could put a 236/242 at 108 lca. And sure it would make more but that's probably what your are after. Yours makes some good low-end torque. Great for a heavy street car or truck.
It's actually just what I had in stock.When I put it together,, is the way it happened
I would love to see what it would do with a slightly more aggressive cam.
The aftermarket heads would probably take off and shine with a bigger cam
Well it's for sale, you can own it and do just that
Nick - You do a great job on these videos. I really enjoy. Question…I was talking with a performance engine builder this week about GM 400 blocks. He has had trouble with them, both 511 and 509 castings to the point where he will no longer use them for customer builds. This hasn’t been the case for me or anyone else that I know that has ran them. What’s your opinion? I’m talking using them for solid roller builds up to 600 or so hp. I haven’t heard of anyone else having trouble with one around here, even using a moderate amount of nitrous. Your thoughts would be appreciated.
I've always had great luck with 509cast# small blocks almost all of my 400ci builds have been in the 509 casting number but I've always been worned by the older guys and machine shop to keep them under 600 horse I've never had one over 550 hp.so I have no experience above that performance but I know they holdi in their great at 550 horse
@@dzperformance7360 Thanks Nick! Appreciate it
Good work 👍
The modern heart shaped combustion chamber in the Trick Flows do not work well with dished pistons.
Never even thought about that ,,thanks for sharing that information
You say modern heart shape but the trick flow camel humps are a design very similar to the 1960s 461 style chamber?
@@MikeSmith-px7ec not close
Small cam here folks, almost dinky. Custom Mike Jones cam surely would've woke it up. But decent power for that small of an off the shelf camshaft.
Every race part I have is for sale, 408 sbc with performer heads, 292 angle plug heads, 375 turbo Trans now a 400, 823 ls3 heads, Kinsler fuel injection plus pump gas or alcohol
Amen brother I would sell any of my motors right now
I think the test is very realistic
@@Dan-d7n thanks for your input, thanks for watching
how can anyone be mad with what parts you put on your moter its yours dude
I appreciate the support !! but I'd had to delete a few comments on that test, because they felt like I wasted there two minutes watching my vide.
Did you drill steam holes? How important do you think they are?
Yeah I did drill steam holes I think they're important
Did you mention what intake your running? I missed it.
Edelbrock ESP
Great test
Thank you!
Hey nick what was the compression of that stock bottom and how far down in the hole was the piston?
He goes through that, including mentioning the cc volume of the stock pistons. Just listen
@lollipop84858 not one thing was said about the compression the ccs was the heads and combustion chamber volume nothing said about compression ratio
About 9.5 to 1
Pistons on this block , even after surfacing the block,, is about. 022 in the hole
The trick flow heads with 175 cc intake ports probably made more than a set of overrated Vortec heads.
That’s a small port, not much bigger than stock.
Still a good street engine.
If you want more rpm’s, get a 350. You could spin the 400, but stock rotating parts in 350’s will go past 6500 all day long.
Upgrade the 400 with better rods and you can have rpm’s.
Amen to the vortec being overrated,, I'm not gonna argue.They're good heads, but so many people believe they're just the fix .Everything/ best horsepower on a small block possible..
What are you doing for steam holes on these heads?
Well heck I've got a set of 186,461& 462 heads just sitting😮
Sounds like you got some good parts laying around
One thing not taken into account- aluminum heads require a point more compression to make the same power and require the same octane. Both are good heads though.
Didn't know that
@@dzperformance7360 You didn't know that because it's not true
Yeah that's what I was thinking
@@dzperformance7360 Engine Masters proved that on a specific episode. I highly recommend it. Great educational video. 👍
How much for tha 400 with new hds on it (trick flow)
I'd sell it for $5,500. But that hydraulic flat tappet is just temporary I wouldn't plan on keeping it in the motor for long
@@dzperformance7360 how can I contact you ?
Can I send you a email to get information, address etc ?
Ñeeds 210 or 220 heads for sure...
Yes it probably put out better power, I'm just testing what I got on the Shelf
The 400’s claim to fame was 400 ft pounds of torque with a 2 barrel carb in 1970. The hp was 245-265 gross hp. That’s not really impressive.
For comparison the 1970 Camaro Corvetter LT-1 350 made 360-370 gross hp.
In 1974 the Z28 350 9:1 engine made 245 hp net, so still around 330hp gross.
So for the 400 with some stock small valve heads to make 330 hp gross, pretty decent. But it had a 770 carb and better intake and probably headers on the dyno.
And the aluminum heads probably flow more than that small cam is allowing, that’s why you are only seeing 430hp.
The double heads made 422 hp. Pretty decent since they are just cleaned up heads with minor port work.
It's a 3.75 stroke not a 4.75 stroke
Where are you from?
Central Missouri
The cam is way wrong, you can run a stock crank stock bottom end to 6k rpm no problem. This engine can make 515 hp 530 torque with nothing more than a cam swap
The cam was just what I had on the shelf,
Yes your statements true, I'm just testing what I got in stock.Most of the time I don't want to go buy parts
They werent stock 186 heads either.
No they weren't stock
Nobody said they were stock
3 3/4 stroke not 4 3/4, even with the stock bottom end that engine should make close to 500 . Those heads don't flow enough for a big engine, if you would have went with 200cc heads even world sportsman's 8t would be much stronger.
Yeah, I wasn't going to record the whole thing over again.There's a correction in the Video description, Most of the world know what I was talking about.
And the five hundred horsepower you're exactly right for a hydraulic roller cam, This is a flat tappet hydraulic.
@dzperformance7360 I could be off, but I wouldn't expect it to make 500 horse with a 224° at .050 cam in 406, especially with those heads. I don't think you could with any head and that duration really.
Nearly every engine can make more power with bigger heads than this. 🙄
Everyone knows what you're talking about with the heads not having enough CSA to feed those cubes. Everyone. You don't have top secret knowledge over everyone. That's not what this test was about though, it was about whether the old ones make as much power as the new copies.
186 double humps arent hard to find. At all.
I've been having trouble finding them,, I'd pay three hundred dollars for a nice core set,
If you
Got some and you're in the Midwest.Contact me
I'm from around the Quad cities area, I had some luck finding them. #186, 041, 461, 461x, 462 and 1 set 292 angle plug.