When you talked about Clint killing Echo's father I realized his story is very similar to the Punisher's. Therefore I think it's ok for this to happen, because it sets up some even more brutal characters. The MCU is changing, and for the better
I think there's been alot of brutality in the MCU. Maybe just not on screen? Bc lots of characters have dealt with death and consequences of "collateral damage"
Very well said. 👏 true the punisher is relentless . And a discussion about killers.... give me a break. Life is not living in a bubble. There are killers RL and it should reflect Art in story telling. Watered down is what the problem is... so let's do this!
I'm actually glad they are getting a little gritty/dark in the MCU. That's exactly what MCU needs. I hope with Daredevil/Kingpin coming in the future, they continue changing and evolving the tone of the MCU.
@@mattchu_chow9087 considering Disney+ has the Beatles docuseries that has multiple f-bombs, maybe Moon Knight will be R rated. That trailer definitely makes it look more violent than most MCU projects
I think that scene in fatws where walker kills the terrorist in cold blood with cap's shield really makes a statement about where the mcu is willing to go
One thing I love about this episode is the music. I’ve been a fan of Christophe Beck since Buffy the Vampire Slayer and I love that he incorporated both Yelena and Natasha’s themes from the Black Widow film into this episode. It really does a good job of showing how heartbroken Yelena is over Nat’s death and whenever Nat get’s brought up with Clint, the Vormir music starts playing. We heard it last week when we saw the parallel with Kate hanging from the building and having it return when Clint is speaking to Nat at the memorial was really powerful.
Seems strange to me to think of Clint and Natasha as "the killers" on the Avengers. Steve killed plenty of men in the war. Stark sold weapons of mass destruction. Thor has fought in wars for over 1,000 years and killed plenty of trolls, elves, monsters, and others. Look at how he "solved" that first fight in Thor 2... And The Hulk? Clearly he hasn't been worried about knocking all those soldiers out while he was on the run. They all have a murderous past, it's all about redemption and what they do going forward.
Honestly I find Clint being Ronan and killing echo’s father makes for such an interesting story. Clint isn’t a hero and doesn’t want to be one. We can see that in the beginning of the series. He just wants to be alone with his family and is not seeking the “hero” moniker. He tries to convince people like Nat and Wanda that they are not just the red in their ledger but more than that because he himself can’t see past the red in his own ledger. He thinks of himself as just a weapon and wants others to be more, be better than himself. Clint sees the best in others but not in himself and because of that he is living in guilt that Nat (an example of someone being better) is gone and he is still there. Nat was his proof that people can be more than their past and that is gone now. Nat’s sacrifice was her way of challenging Clint to the same thing he has done with everyone else and this series is his arc to finally find redemption and see that just like everyone he tries to save he too can be saved and become more than his past actions.
I loved and almost choked at the scene where Clint went to the memorial site, took off his hearing aid to shut the world off and just talk to Natasha. Man I wish they fleshed out Clint's and Natasha's relationship a bit more in the movies.
The opening scene was brilliant and the way they handled the "snap" was so well done. I thought the scene between Kate and Yelena was incredible though. Strong writing, fantastic acting and incredibly intense. It reminded me of the car scene between Peter and Tooms in Spider-Man: Homecoming. The character work they've done on Kate, Clint and Yelena is amazing. Strong episode and the best so fair. The fight between "Ronin" and Maya was awesome too.
Not condoning Clint's actions during his time as Ronin, but the way it's being discussed feels as though there is no redemption for a man with "red in his ledger". Even after Black Widow and the reminder of the things she's done in her past, we still see the hero in Natasha and how she was able to redeem herself throughout her time in the MCU, especially after Endgame. I just find it so sad that although Clint has continued to be heroic throughout the MCU, and was clearly prepared to make that same sacrifice Natasha made, him surviving means that his willingness to do his part to save the world is completely overlooked and now he is vilified for his actions as Ronin.
@@Tiredashell23435 But he very clearly stated that he wanted to die in Vormir because of what he’s done. He wanted to take accountability, he wanted to trade his life for the stone because he knew that he deserved to die for what he did. But Natasha, being his friend, decided to give him a second chance at life. She sacrificed herself 1) to clear her ledger and 2) so that Clint could start over, not as Ronin, but as a father and a husband. And that’s exactly what he did until Kate showed up. Clint shouldn’t be judged any more or less than Natasha or Yelena. Especially by Yelena, who is a contract killer herself. So when she expresses the fact that he’s not a good person, it seems hypocritical coming from her. Yes it was her sister she wants to avenge, but it doesn’t make it any less of a job. Val specifically said “your next assignment” in that post credit scene for a reason. This isn’t her first contract killing and unless Clint turns her in next weeks episode, it wouldn’t be her last.
@@Tiredashell23435 he wasn't killing innocent people, he was killing criminals. Criminals taking advantage of the snap. Should he have done it, no, but it's not like he was killing innocent people.
@@JoybuzzerX exactly and I’m pretty sure black widow showed that Natasha was killing innocent people. Or at least okay with the collateral damage of an assassination. I think all of this is silly, majority of them have killed people. It just might not be directly on screen, it gives them a deeper story, and makes them more interesting to explore. Clint clearly has implied that he was killing people for shield before the Avengers… so what makes that okay, to him taking it into his own hands post an apocalyptic event??? He was still killing bad people, doesn’t make it right but it doesn’t make it any worse then what he was doing for shield.
The reveal of VINCENT D’ONOFRIO’S KINGPIN at the end, while too small a glimpse, made my heart race! I knew it was coming, but the fact it’s reality is just so damn cool! SO EXCITED!
D'onofrio's Kingpin is for me one of the greatest cinematic villians of all time. That they show Clint going a bit darker in this episode gives me hope they will embrace enough of those elements so his character can at least partially continue as it should. Maybe this also hints to why rumors of Berenthal's Punisher is rumored to return even thought he's said he wouldn't do a version that didn't deal with violent nature of the character.
@@HiddenSeven Daredevil is up there with Breaking Bad for me as one of the best shows of all time, and that’s in a large part due to Vincent’s Kingpin - he is phenomenal in the role and steals every scene he’s in - although those are only my (and a lot of others) thoughts so you definitely should watch Daredevil yourself and hopefully feel the same. He’s the best marvel villain, and honestly one of the best villains in the TV/movies for me personally.
I don't think he wanted to kill people again after the blip, he was reverting to pre-Natasha Clint doing the only thing he really knew how to do which was wetwork for SHIELD
also, every bit we have seen ronin was in a fight on life or dead so far, he didnt murder people unarmed or something like that. im sure if the evil guys would havethrown their weapon away and surrendered he would have arrested them.
I disagree with Grace on the Clint killing as Ronin thing. It makes him immensely more interesting as a character to have a dark alter-ego he can slip into and do the things his goody two shoes side does not. Characters that are unpredictable and live in shades of grey are much more interesting and complex in character development than characters that just do the right thing all the time. It makes them…guess what….HUMAN. I find it weird that she loves this in Yelana but has issues with it for Clint. (I think I will just leave with that thought…)
She keeps saying that the MCU is the universe with no consequences? There have been consequences since the beginning of phase 3. Also the heroes of the MCU have been killing since Iron Man!🤷🏾♂️
Difference is Yelana is not a hero, nor does she try to be. Hawkeye doesn't know what he wants to be. I don't think it makes him a more interesting character, just a more confusing character. This whole grim dark thing automatically making something interesting is an odd obsession and a bit of a misconception.
@@thestranger3588 When did any of the Avengers refer to themselves as heroes? Hawkeye is a SHIELD assassin who happens to save the world sometimes. When you actually look at the original roster you have an assassin, spy, fugitive, deity, soldier and an arms dealer. Not a very heroic group.🤷🏾♂️
I don't know about you Grace but Clint having a dark time and getting so much red on his ledger and dealing with the consequences just makes the MCU more interesting and different which is just SO REFRESHING to me.
This episode reminded me of why I love Marvel: everything is connected. - Yelena being snapped: Infinity War - Black Widows are no more: Black Widow - Natasha’s death: Endgame - Avengers Memorial : Avengers 2012 - New Statue of Liberty: Spider Man No Way Home - and FREAKING KINGPIN
I think Clint wore the Ronin costume simply to put to rest, finally, the question of who Ronin actually was. Echo clearly wasn't buying his BS story that Ronin was dead, and so she might have still thought there was a possibility that Kate was Ronin, and the best way for Clint to clear Kate's name, once and for all, was to come clean that he, in fact, has always been Ronin.
We don’t know yet that Clint killed her father. He said “I was there that night.” “Someone wanted your father dead.” But he didn’t say “I killed him.” She attacked him before he could finish telling her what he wanted to say, then he fled.
Ronin in the MCU executed organized crime figures during the 5 years, and, as it turns out, that includes ECHO's father. But ECHO's father was set up. Clearly, Clint is trying to earn the life that Natasha gifted him, knowing how he had spent his time during the blip.
5:34 REWATCH THE EPISODE. Clint didn't kill Echo's father. Not sure how so many people missed it but he specifically says he was there because he was tipped off but that the boss wanted her father killed. They made it abundantly clear that it was Kazi who Echo saw, not Clint. Maya even further hints at this when she questions the fact that Kazi wasn't at the meeting.
It seems like they were eluding to Kazi being the informant. He knew Ronin would attack that night because he informed him, so he didn’t go to the meeting. It wasn’t clear enough either way.
I actually thought that the show eluded to Clint not killing Echo’s father. He was there but I suspect Kazi was the one who actually killed him. This is why Echo questioned him about not being at the meeting that night
That is clearly not what they meant. Hawkeye legit admits it. Kazi was the "informant" which is why he wasn't there so that he too will not get killed. Echo is mad because Kazi is also responsible for the death of her father.
To be honest, I’m not surprised by the ‘lack’ of Clint in this show, I was personally going into this thinking of it more as a show to introduce Kate Bishop, and let her be Hawkeye, so I was expecting Clint to step aside, I feel like people may have got a bit confused with the shows intention, which is honestly very understandable as it is called ‘Hawkeye’ but yeah
Tbh, she hasn't actually done anything to warrant her taking on the mantle of Hawkeye. She'll need another season or appear in a movie because she hasn't done anything.
Florence Pugh and Hailee Steinfeld are so perfectly cast that it's insane. They both are RDJ as Iron Man level. As much as I would love to see Yelena on the Thunderbolts... I wouldn't mind if she was on a NEW Avengers team with Kate. I feel like Yelena, John and Zemo would have some great banter but the Girl's Night scene was so good. I hope we get more Kate and Yelena interactions after this show.
Yelena feels like a legit Black Widow more so than Natasha ever felt Natasha seemed all talked up mythology and history while Yelena feels like what she says she is
True and while I am excited for Yelena, I always felt Natasha, Clint and even Bucky who was a supporting character , were short changed in the MCU to make other character arcs better. They all had much better stories than were told on film that would have worked in the narrative better than what we got. Time for next generation now.
ive never been able to buy scarlet johanson as a tough hardened assassin. Yelena on the other hand does have a good stone cold look thats convincing. atleast to me.
THIS EPISODE WAS SO GOOD I RISKED SEEING SPOILERS FOR SPIDER-MAN TO WATCH YOUR BREAKDOWN! Tbh Hawkeye is a name for Clint and Kate, like I entered this show expecting a balanced story for the two of them and I feel like I’m getting that so I’m stoked either way
Clint Barton the SHIELD assassin and to a leser extent Hawkeye the Avenger were weapons aimed at targets by other people. Ronin was a guy who had made the choice for himself to go kill some dudes and picked his own targets. Clint/Hawkeye were weapons. Ronin was a murderer.
She’s amazing! Easily my favorite new character in the MCU. And that last scene! Gave me the squeals!!! I actually feel there is equal time spent on both Clint and Kate. Not sure what all the fuss is bc we are slowly learning more and more about his family and his relationship w Laura. Hope that a certain someone shows up next week in more than a blurry cell phone photo.
I find this to be one of my favorite MCU shows. I like that we’re exploring, and possibly closing, Clint’s story and transitioning to the next phase of the MCU with Kate Bishop, Yelena, and Echo. The great thing about the MCU is they make you care about the characters, even the villains, so I find it interesting Grace has a difficult time processing Clint’s past. Clint tried redeeming himself after the Ronin stuff, by wanting to sacrifice himself in Endgame, but it worked out the way it worked out and Clint will need to spend his life making amends.
Though I grew to love Johansson’s Natasha, I agree with Grace that Yelena is the Black Widow I’ve always wanted. The accent, the humor, the glamour, russian fatalism and deadliness of the character are more in line with what I like about Black Widow in comics. I also think that Countessa De La Fontaine knows that Eleanor and Kingpin are criminals - local crime lords are are useful pawns in her much bigger global game. Maya is going to end up with the Ronin suit isn’t she?
Clint is the last person who would ever call himself a hero. He knows what he's done isn't the heroic thing, he never pretended otherwise. And Maya's father was no saint. Did he deserve to die? Who knows? We don't know if maybe he killed too. Just because we love Maya as a character, and I think she's great, doesn't mean that her father was a good man. And as for Yelena, she has no clue what happened to Natasha. Maybe she should talk to Clint and get his side before she trash-talks him. And again, he does not call himself a hero.
I would argue that nobody “deserves to die” and to whatever extent that they do deserve to die or be otherwise punished for their actions, that is not something that a random vigilante should decide.
Honestly, I feel that Clint and Kate share the series pretty well. I don't feel like one has more of a story than the other, and they both drive the story forward.
I feel like watching Pugh be "Yelena" is somewhere on par with watching RDJ be "Tony". She embodies this character and makes it so much more than that. With Tony's passing I have personally been worried about pure dialogue scenes and character moments in the MCU, but if Yelena takes a lead position within the 'next Avengers', I think we'll be ok. I agree that she feels "dangerous" even when she's just "relaxing", which I love! My only issue was her saying that she'd never been to NY! Being part of a notorious INTERNATIONAL assassin agency, that felt a little weird. But if she says it, I believe it. So excited to see what they do with this Black Widow!
Gotta say, I had a bigger reaction at seeing Kingpin this week, than Yelena last week. So good to see Vincent D'Onofrio back, now get him in the Spider-Verse.
I think that Hawkeye’s message is about family. And regardless of where you land on the moral spectrum (hero/bad guy) you’ll do whatever is needed to protect or in this case avenge those you love and hold dear the most. I like the murkiness of the show and it feels like the MCU is actually getting its hands dirty instead of always dictating and drawing such clear lines of good and evil.
The blip just seems terrifying when you know it returns the person to the exact same place. What if you blipped back in a building that no longer existed?
Like in the post credit scene where Maria Hill and Fury get blipped? Remember that helicopter that slammed into the building, presumably because the pilot got blipped...did the pilot then reappear in mid-air? So he would then fall to his death.
Yelena character is so great because even though you know this is a Disney Show and they won’t just kill Kate Bishop soon as she walks in her apartment you feel like Yelena could have. You can feel how Dangerous she is. Even during WandaVision I never felt like Wanda would kill someone on a moment’s notice
It’s so impressive that Florence Pugh has been in one film and two episodes and already has become one of the best MCU characters and one of my faves. She oozes charisma
Someone’s gotta help bank roll whatever Val is up to, so Eleanor would fit that. I think Sharon Carter is in on it, too. You know she’s got $tack$ from her Broker persona.
It’s cool to see the blip continue to be used in these newer characters’ stories and origins. Really makes you feel it’s connected. And wow is Florence Pugh AMAZING in this role.
“That’s not the take that everyone had…” you’re projecting again Grace. That was EXACTLY the message I received in Endgame. Sure Clint had a family and that influenced Natasha’s decision a bit. But I walked away with the strong sense that she sacrificed herself BECAUSE of the red in her ledger.
i mean she also said "this is what i've wait for the past 5 years, this moment", she wanted to bring everyone back and was willing to do whatever it takes for that to happen
Yeah Grace I don't know how you missed it. Natasha getting the red out her ledger was her whole deal in Endgame. Why she was still manning Avengers during the blip. I never once felt she was saving Clint cause he had a family. They were both fighting so hard to make the ultimate sacrifice because they both wanted to atone for their past
I'm surprised by the idea that the MCU doesnt deal with death or consequences? Civil War was basically based around this concept. The Avengers dealing with the fallout of all the people killed in the past movies. Theres Black Panther, with its opening having killed someone. Their son coming back later for revenge. Bucky's journey in his tv show. (Subsequently John Walker and what he did as Captain America) Shang Chi also struggled with killing after his father sent him. To be honest, what Hawkeye says about being a weapon and pointed at something is very prevelent. (Shang Chi included)and what I love about that parallell to Echo is that Yelena is literally doing the same. Her anger at her sisters loss is being used as a weapon for someone else against Clint. Lastly, I think it was quite clear that the battle between Natasha and Clint for the soul stone was over the "blood in the ledger" debate. Clint distraught over what he had done, which Natasha understood having always been trying to clean the blood in her ledger. But Clint actually had a reason to stay and atone, (for his family, and more so than Nat did.) Anyway I just didnt agree with alot of what Grace said about this episode.
Eleanor really reminds of Mother Gothel: the dark red outfits, the scheming, and manipulating her daughter’s trust in her and in others so she looks like the good guy.
I really like that Clint has a lot of female influence because as you said some guys are like that and I’m one of them. I love that phase 4 has introduced more female characters and more female characters are getting spotlight
I'm glad that Hawkeye explored this dark side of Clint. I mean realistically our MCU favorites have all killed people so to have it explored more in depth is fascinating. Not sure why you have such a problem with it. I loved the Yelena dusting scene. It took me a few seconds to realize what had happened, but it was so neat to see it from the point of view of a character. I also liked the girls night out scene. I agree that it was acted very well by both actors. I was worried about the MCU losing so many great characters, but these two have been great additions and I'm looking forward to seeing their adventures going forward.
So happy to finally have Wilson “YOU EMBARRASSED ME IN FRONT OF VANESSA” Fisk in the MCU (properly)!! Vincent D’Onofrio was too good in the role to just leave behind.
I love this episode! Florence Pugh and Hailee Steinfield are incredible! And Wilson Fisk portrayed again by Vincent D’Onofrio! OMG! I wonder what that means for the Netflix series? Does it make them canon? Or is Marvel going to proceed and explain it away as one of the many multiverses? Anything’s possible!
Pretty sure this Kingpin will end up being a variant who is similar but not identical to the Netflix one. That way they can adapt the character into the MCU without having to strictly follow the Netflix canon.
I’m still holding on to the belief that Nat is making a comeback someday myself. I’m appreciating her death way more here than her solo outing. Needless to say, I enjoyed that for what it was too. Yelena stole the show in Black Widow and she’s doing it here as well. I think Nat’s arc was very safe but well done. With Yelena, we’re fleshing out what it really means to be a Black Widow assassin and I am for it. This show serves as Nat’s eulogy and it’s excellent writing for an emotional return later on!
That's the thing here. Clint specifically said to Kate that he's NOT a role model or a hero. He knows he messed up and he's owning it by revealing his real face to Echo during that episode. But he also wants her to understand that there's someone else in that story who wanted her father dead. So now the choice is on Echo, is vengeance the only way, or not ? I think this show is doing a real good job with those characters. And yeah it's a bummer that we don't have more Clint in this show but oh well at least we got to see him fight one last time during episode 3 and we'll maybe see him fight during next episode.
I think the point he made this episode is that his pain was used to turn him into a monster, and he’s trying to stop that from happening to Echo (and probably Kate and Yelena eventually).
We saw Clint killing yakuza in Endgame and was said to have taken out a cartel in Mexico. During the blip he was going after organized crime. Killing isn’t new to the MCU. Stark sold weapons. Bucky was a killer. Steve killed in war and for SHIELD (he literally tried to decapitate Batroc on the boat). Nat has killed. We can’t now judge Clint just because we see the relatives of one of his victims.
Thor does have a last name Grace it is "Odinson" its been said multiple times in the MCU. Lokis last name is "Laufeyson" they are going by old naming conventions and Loki is the son of Laufey. Loki said his last name himself in his show.
I always got the feeling that Natasha felt guilty for what she was done in the past. Yes she loved Clint and his family but she also felt like she has to atone for her sins.
Why are just now realizing that Clint has killed many people? Not just as ronin, he did so as “Hawkeye” before he became an avenger. The red in both Natasha and Clint’s ledger has always been a reference to them killing people
This happens a lot, we as viewers only care about these things once it affects characters we like. In Game of Thrones, people were willing to see Tywin Lannister as a hardened but reasonable man all through Seasons 1 and 2 until he told Tyrion to go f*** himself in Season 3. We didn't care about any of his other bad actions up till then UNTIL he was mean to Tyrion.
Maybe the Hawkeye series is a testing ground for more grounded, grittier, teeny bit darker street level stories in the future. With DD and Fisk back, and with Moon Knight, they wanna see how far they can take things if/when characters like Punisher and Wolvie come
I'm really hoping they'll eventually do the "these claws are for dismembering and gutting, bub" type Wolverine. That's what drew me to him as a character in the early X-men comics. You had this team of heroes, and then you had Wolverine, a dangerous and unpredictable killer. Made for some great tension.
"Clint and Nat might have missed their window." No, Grace. The writers and Disney have chosen to include a lot of women and relatively little Clint. That's not missing a window. It's a very conscious decision. This show could have been *all* Clint. It could have been Clint alone in an office building on Christmas night, a la Die Hard, fighting faceless goons and only talking to supporting characters over the phone, and people would have liked it if it were good. I'm not even contesting the decision to make the show female-centric right now ... I'm just saying it's not an accident or a twist of fate. lol
The music that played when Clint visited the memorial was so beautiful, it was the same theme when Natasha (and Gamora) died and it always gets me choked up. Sidenote: I'm so happy you mentioned the fact that some guys just prefer to be around woman in general. Some of my best friends, and many other platonic relationships, are with woman. I just feel more comfortable and at ease with them. It is something that is barely explored in media because it always has to be a romantic relationship first. I think one of the best platonic relationships is Tina Fey & Alec Baldwin in 30 Rock way back.
What?! Grace, when Clint confronted Echo, I did not get the message that he confessed to killing get father. The opposite. I got the message that Kingpin had her father killed.
So did I. I was so confused by Grace’s comment (and other comments on this video). I guess we’ll have to wait until the next episode for confirmation, but it definitely sounded like Clint was eluding that he didn’t kill Echo’s father.
Yelena was so good in this show!! I could've watched her all day in the show. They didn't need any action with how much spark she brought. Loved her!! The conversation eith her and Kate was so good!!!
Perfect timing yet again! Literally just closed out my browser. For a penultimate episode, I’m kind of let down a little bit. I did love the Yelena scenes, though. I also loved how they portrayed the time jump at the beginning. Florence is just amazing all-around.
Yes same as soon as I finished this was uploaded. 6 episodes only dang. I really liked Yelena in this and Kate usually sells me on the show but this time the blip visuals did, well done!
I was raised with 5 sisters and have always found myself drawn to having more female friends (platonic) than male friends. I’ve never heard anyone articulate that out loud and truly am grateful for your insights!
I love Yelena, and I’m so happy for Florence Pugh, she’s such an amazing actress, and woman in general, I’ve loved her since Fighting With My Family, I highly recommend it if you haven’t yet seen it, but I’m so glad she’s getting the popularity and recognition she’s always deserved
Clint was in rage, he was used by others to kill. Maya was in rage, she is used by others to try to kill (don't know if she actually killed anyone) Yelena was in rage (I think she was because she thinks Clint is responsible for her sister's death), she is also being used to kill others. I see a theme there. And, that's what Clint was trying to explain Maya. And if Maya forgives him, if she sees the bigger picture, then it will be a great lesson of compassion. Recently, I watched the Daredevil series for the first time. The priest character always tries to emphasize the idea of how when you kill, that bleeds into your family and friends. A human is not just a human, but a whole world. And true greatness comes only when you are pushed to the extreme corner, broken, vengeful, and yet come out of there with a moral upper hand. That is a true awakening. If that happens to Echo in such an early stage. She will be one hell of a Superhero.
Clint Barton losing his entire family and becoming judge, jury, and executioner is basically what happens to the Punisher. Outside of wanting to find out who killed his family (because it’s obvious it’s Thanos), they’re paths are very similar. Ronin is more or less “Sword Punisher” as far as we’ve seen in this show.
😎 True neither Ronin or the Punisher are actually heroes. Frank will 'punish' (read: kill) any criminal. He doesn't care whether the criminal is guilty of a white collar crime, jaywalking, littering, murder or rape. And Ronin doesn't care if the career criminal is a money launderer or a drug trafficker, all he wants is not feel the loss of his family which he achieves by going after organised crime.
I never realized how much he did work with women. He was amazing with Natasha in avengers and even when Wanda joined the avengers he’s relationship with her was strong as well.
WHAT IF: Laura was as the Ronin working for Kingpin. And Clint put on the Ronin suit to settle loose ends from his wife past during the blip. The watch holds the piece of evidence that the Ronin was in fact Laura ALL ALONG.
One thing I’m concerned about with the MCU as it goes on is that it’s size may be getting to big to keep consistency. Just like with comics, with so many different writers and creative teams, it’s hard to keep character development and personalities consistent. I’m seeing some of that happen with certain characters and stories in phase 4.
The Winter soldier was the time to focus on Hawkeye and Natasha....but they quickly moved on to Civil War and Black Panther that was the window and the opportunity was definitely missed. Hawkeye is great especially after following Captain America. I don't have no complaints except that the series might be a little too short. 🤷🏾♂️
This was a pretty low key episode but has some big reveals that mean a lot. I liked Clint muting the world so he could talk to Nat and he realizes that he’s living a life in exchange for her’s.
Clint says "We are the same...we are weapons and we can be manipulated." The only reason he would say that is if he wasn't the one who killed Echo's father. Echo coming after Clint because he's Ronin isn't manipulation - it's revenge. So saying she was manipulated doesn't make any sense unless he didn't do it and she was tricked into thinking he did. So, no. I still don't think it was Clint.
Ronin was manipulated by kingpin to kill some henchmen kingpin wanted dead. He wasn’t innocent, but he would not have done it without kingpin. Echo was manipulated by kingpin to think ronin committed the murders in his own. This meant she hates ronin but trusts kingpin, even though it was kingpin who arranged the murder.
Thanks for the video. I find it odd that you are not willing to not let Clint off the hook on killing all those people yet Yelena also has a lot of red on her Ledger and blindly went after Clint without hearing him out of the event's that happen in Endgame. So saying that you side with Echo is also ridiculous considering that she went into the family business to work for the Kingpin and probably had to kill a few people in her pursuit of revenge. Grace get your moral priorities straight. Speaking of morals, I'm waiting for Fiege to start paging Frank Castle on his take on killing people who deserve to die.😉
"How do you reconcile characters who kill and continue to kill in a jokey world like the MCU?" - Uh... have we been watching the same MCU Grace? Heroes killing have been a thing since... the first Iron Man movie when Tony Stark first used his new armor to take out the 10 Ring terrorist organization. As we've seen heroes kill villains or those associated with them in so many of the movies and shows. Even Ant Man killed (or at least seemingly killed) Yellowjacket at the end of his movie. Like granted none of the heroes are conciously just usually going off killing for the sake of it but quite honestly I find it more interesting and realistic that Clint actually DID kill Maya's father because he actual was a criminal then someone else doing it and really, this show is about shades of grey (sans Kingpin it seems like all the other "baddies" on this show are motivated by either a solid reason for wanting to take a life or wanting to protect someone to do their deeds) so I'm fine with our heroes having it. I mean Natasha has gone on about all the red in her ledger so it makes sense Clint would have some in his as well.
The consequence part didn’t make sense to me either. The blip was the consequence of the avengers disbanding. Clint became ronin as a consequence of the blip. Echo is trying to kill him as a consequence of what he did as ronin. The whole dang cinematic universe is based on consequences.
@@MsDiving1 The Avengers disbanded because of the consequence on being on opposing sides of the Sokovia accords. The Sokovia accords were a consequence of Ultron decimating an entire city to try and destroy the world. Ultron was the consequence of Tony Stark believing he had to make something to save the entire world from an otherwise unstoppoable fate. Tony Stark believed that as a consequences of Scarlet Witch manipulating him to do so. Scarlet Witch manipulated him- Like seriously we could keep going back and back and back as yeah consequences were there since the original Iron Man for someone's actions. So it's ALWAYS been a part of the equation quite honestly. I think the only difference is this is played much more at street level without as many big jokes and... maybe Grace is trying to ignore those other actions because Tony Stark did them and you know she loves Tony Stark so much but why Tony worked so much as a character was because of his flaws and mistakes which he made quite a number out of. So did Clint but that doesn't mean his are a lot worse just because he doesn't have super special ultra advance gear and a more dashing boisterous personality.
17:13 - Thor has always had Odinson as his last name. It's been in the comics and ancient Norse mythology. Thor, son of Odin. It's like Coulson. Thor referred to him as the son of Coul in Avengers, cuz that's what it means in Thor's culture. Interestingly, Grace's last name "Randolph" is actually from the Nordic culture too and it means shield of the wolf. So if Thor Odinson met Grace Randolph he would immediately assume she was a shield maiden: part of the defensive line for a well armed castle which used a wolf in its family crest. As for Clint's name at the bottom of the list, that goes back to Kate's talk about branding, but also Clint's preference to "Not Be Seen" (obscure Monty Python reference there).
Grace Ironman killed bad people in his first movie. Hawkeye is an Assassin by trade. Black Widow is an Assassin by trade. So what are you talking about? Captain America is a soldier. He killed many people even in the first Avengers movie.
Grace..you owe me a glass of milk that was inconveniently shot out my nose at the quip, "I've never heard someone vocally twirl their mustache before, but he does it!"...LOLz! 🥛😂🤣🎯
Wait. Aren't they implying heavily that Echo's "number 2" was the one that dressed up as Ronin amd took out her dad? The whole scene where she questioned him about why he wasnt there that day??
Clint was always an assassin "Always" he was sent to kill BW he was sent to kill Thor, that was his job. You don't hire a Markman's to wound people. The MCU is full of assassins, and Killers Melinda May, Ironman, Cap, Falcon, Thor, Punisher, hell everyone on Agents of Shield kills, Fury, Hill, heck who does not kill? It's interesting that they are setting up the Black Widow and Hawkeye as best friends again.
Yelena was straight up terrifying in that 'girls night' scene with Kate Bishop, great portrayal of casual menace, and great review of superhero violence. just having Kingpin ina still frame was a cop out though
I’m actually glad the mcu made it so that Clint was the one to kill her father. Now it doesn’t cheapen the theme of Clint dealing with his past demons and his past self. It makes it more believable what Clint is going through and the impact Natasha had on him. Also the fact he feels like he’s just a weapon that could be manipulated by anyone, even his own anger/rage is rlly believable when us as the audience have actual moments to reference, like him killing Echos father and her coming back to get revenge, that’s a prime example of his past actions coming back to haunt him
Great observation about Clint gravitating to women! And HILARIOUS coining of the term “½ Murderer” 😂. Also I feel Tony’s death was handled and explored further in Spider-Man Far from Home. That was the MCUs opportunity to delve deeper on his passing. And like you said the Hawkeye series is now their chance for Black Widow’s death. So it works nicely! Great video Grace 👍🏾 ⚡️
This was probably the best Marvel Disney Plus episode I've seen. Grounded, interesting, sets up Clint and his wife as anti-hero's, introduces some serious solid characters, and if it doesn't end w/Clint back at home for Christmas introducing Kate to his family I'll be disappointed.
Oh my God! It just hit me. Natasha sacrificed herself to bring her sister back! The feels!!! Now that leap on Vormire has a whole new meaning for Clint, Natasha and Yelena
Lol. Wow! Light bulb moment for you🤔 Its literally been mentioned by multiple reaction channels and emphasized in The Black Widow movie. Welcome to the party😎
This episode confirmed the most important thing. Yelena and Kate are on their way to become besties
I'm here for it.
Well Nat and Clint were besties, so from one archer and widow duo to another.
Right👀
I smell 🏳️🌈
I had a feeling they would
I think Val is like the talent manager. Someone wants an assassin, they call Val, and she sends the killer.
Was thinking the same thing.
Exactly! That's her role.
This episode answered so many questions we had. And Yelenas fashion choices are truly iconic
Literally I have no choice but to Stan
Loved her outfit during the “girls night” scene in Kate’s apartment
@@kysermosley3087
😁No offense to Yelena but I rather Stan Lee.
Cauz he made Marvel comix happen.
When you talked about Clint killing Echo's father I realized his story is very similar to the Punisher's. Therefore I think it's ok for this to happen, because it sets up some even more brutal characters. The MCU is changing, and for the better
I think there's been alot of brutality in the MCU. Maybe just not on screen? Bc lots of characters have dealt with death and consequences of "collateral damage"
i think tony starks missile he was trying to sell in iron man one was more burtal but yeah, its a lot more personal now :o
I think it’s justifiable i mean Maya’s father probably killed lots of people working for Kingpin so why should he live.
@@lucaleone4331 Civil war was all about collateral damage
Very well said. 👏 true the punisher is relentless . And a discussion about killers.... give me a break. Life is not living in a bubble. There are killers RL and it should reflect Art in story telling. Watered down is what the problem is... so let's do this!
I'm actually glad they are getting a little gritty/dark in the MCU. That's exactly what MCU needs. I hope with Daredevil/Kingpin coming in the future, they continue changing and evolving the tone of the MCU.
Don’t forget Moon Knight! Judging off the first look of the show it falls right in line with the darker/grittier side of Marvel
@@mattchu_chow9087 considering Disney+ has the Beatles docuseries that has multiple f-bombs, maybe Moon Knight will be R rated. That trailer definitely makes it look more violent than most MCU projects
We started the MCU with Tony killing, blowing up and burning terrorists alive. MCU has always had it's dark moments.
I think that scene in fatws where walker kills the terrorist in cold blood with cap's shield really makes a statement about where the mcu is willing to go
They have been dark since winter soldier. They just choose to still have a 3rd act spectacle and signature comedy with it. They can do both.
One thing I love about this episode is the music. I’ve been a fan of Christophe Beck since Buffy the Vampire Slayer and I love that he incorporated both Yelena and Natasha’s themes from the Black Widow film into this episode. It really does a good job of showing how heartbroken Yelena is over Nat’s death and whenever Nat get’s brought up with Clint, the Vormir music starts playing. We heard it last week when we saw the parallel with Kate hanging from the building and having it return when Clint is speaking to Nat at the memorial was really powerful.
He did great with wandavision, that sokovia soundtrack is amazing
So happy they kept Lorne Balfe's Yelena theme. My favourite piece of MCU music!
Seems strange to me to think of Clint and Natasha as "the killers" on the Avengers. Steve killed plenty of men in the war. Stark sold weapons of mass destruction. Thor has fought in wars for over 1,000 years and killed plenty of trolls, elves, monsters, and others. Look at how he "solved" that first fight in Thor 2... And The Hulk? Clearly he hasn't been worried about knocking all those soldiers out while he was on the run. They all have a murderous past, it's all about redemption and what they do going forward.
the only really marvel heroes that have a no kill policy is spidey, strange and daredevil
everyone else dont really care about killing their enemies
@@mk6rfc1 Does that mean that dc has more no kill heroes than marvel?
@@metallicnole4514 yes
@@mk6rfc1 yet Doctor Strange killed a sorcerer in his first movie.
@@xman48205 yes and he was annoyed at the other sorcerers that he had to do that
Honestly I find Clint being Ronan and killing echo’s father makes for such an interesting story. Clint isn’t a hero and doesn’t want to be one. We can see that in the beginning of the series. He just wants to be alone with his family and is not seeking the “hero” moniker.
He tries to convince people like Nat and Wanda that they are not just the red in their ledger but more than that because he himself can’t see past the red in his own ledger. He thinks of himself as just a weapon and wants others to be more, be better than himself. Clint sees the best in others but not in himself and because of that he is living in guilt that Nat (an example of someone being better) is gone and he is still there. Nat was his proof that people can be more than their past and that is gone now. Nat’s sacrifice was her way of challenging Clint to the same thing he has done with everyone else and this series is his arc to finally find redemption and see that just like everyone he tries to save he too can be saved and become more than his past actions.
Exactly! Very well put.
I loved and almost choked at the scene where Clint went to the memorial site, took off his hearing aid to shut the world off and just talk to Natasha. Man I wish they fleshed out Clint's and Natasha's relationship a bit more in the movies.
The opening scene was brilliant and the way they handled the "snap" was so well done. I thought the scene between Kate and Yelena was incredible though. Strong writing, fantastic acting and incredibly intense. It reminded me of the car scene between Peter and Tooms in Spider-Man: Homecoming. The character work they've done on Kate, Clint and Yelena is amazing. Strong episode and the best so fair. The fight between "Ronin" and Maya was awesome too.
Not condoning Clint's actions during his time as Ronin, but the way it's being discussed feels as though there is no redemption for a man with "red in his ledger". Even after Black Widow and the reminder of the things she's done in her past, we still see the hero in Natasha and how she was able to redeem herself throughout her time in the MCU, especially after Endgame. I just find it so sad that although Clint has continued to be heroic throughout the MCU, and was clearly prepared to make that same sacrifice Natasha made, him surviving means that his willingness to do his part to save the world is completely overlooked and now he is vilified for his actions as Ronin.
He takes no responsibility tho. At least widow had the balls to kill and KNOW it was her doing. She never said “i was brainwashed sorry “ like what…
@@Tiredashell23435 But he very clearly stated that he wanted to die in Vormir because of what he’s done. He wanted to take accountability, he wanted to trade his life for the stone because he knew that he deserved to die for what he did. But Natasha, being his friend, decided to give him a second chance at life. She sacrificed herself 1) to clear her ledger and 2) so that Clint could start over, not as Ronin, but as a father and a husband. And that’s exactly what he did until Kate showed up. Clint shouldn’t be judged any more or less than Natasha or Yelena. Especially by Yelena, who is a contract killer herself. So when she expresses the fact that he’s not a good person, it seems hypocritical coming from her. Yes it was her sister she wants to avenge, but it doesn’t make it any less of a job. Val specifically said “your next assignment” in that post credit scene for a reason. This isn’t her first contract killing and unless Clint turns her in next weeks episode, it wouldn’t be her last.
@@Tiredashell23435 he wasn't killing innocent people, he was killing criminals.
Criminals taking advantage of the snap.
Should he have done it, no, but it's not like he was killing innocent people.
Cuz he's a man. Part of grace's agenda.
@@JoybuzzerX exactly and I’m pretty sure black widow showed that Natasha was killing innocent people. Or at least okay with the collateral damage of an assassination.
I think all of this is silly, majority of them have killed people. It just might not be directly on screen, it gives them a deeper story, and makes them more interesting to explore. Clint clearly has implied that he was killing people for shield before the Avengers… so what makes that okay, to him taking it into his own hands post an apocalyptic event??? He was still killing bad people, doesn’t make it right but it doesn’t make it any worse then what he was doing for shield.
The reveal of VINCENT D’ONOFRIO’S KINGPIN at the end, while too small a glimpse, made my heart race! I knew it was coming, but the fact it’s reality is just so damn cool! SO EXCITED!
His face looked different but I saw his name in the credits
D'onofrio's Kingpin is for me one of the greatest cinematic villians of all time. That they show Clint going a bit darker in this episode gives me hope they will embrace enough of those elements so his character can at least partially continue as it should.
Maybe this also hints to why rumors of Berenthal's Punisher is rumored to return even thought he's said he wouldn't do a version that didn't deal with violent nature of the character.
@@HiddenSeven you need to watch Daredevil. It’s amazing.
@@HiddenSeven Daredevil is up there with Breaking Bad for me as one of the best shows of all time, and that’s in a large part due to Vincent’s Kingpin - he is phenomenal in the role and steals every scene he’s in - although those are only my (and a lot of others) thoughts so you definitely should watch Daredevil yourself and hopefully feel the same. He’s the best marvel villain, and honestly one of the best villains in the TV/movies for me personally.
I actually had not heard that at all. I got so excited when she showed that picture!
I don't think he wanted to kill people again after the blip, he was reverting to pre-Natasha Clint doing the only thing he really knew how to do which was wetwork for SHIELD
also, every bit we have seen ronin was in a fight on life or dead so far, he didnt murder people unarmed or something like that. im sure if the evil guys would havethrown their weapon away and surrendered he would have arrested them.
I disagree with Grace on the Clint killing as Ronin thing. It makes him immensely more interesting as a character to have a dark alter-ego he can slip into and do the things his goody two shoes side does not. Characters that are unpredictable and live in shades of grey are much more interesting and complex in character development than characters that just do the right thing all the time. It makes them…guess what….HUMAN.
I find it weird that she loves this in Yelana but has issues with it for Clint.
(I think I will just leave with that thought…)
She keeps saying that the MCU is the universe with no consequences? There have been consequences since the beginning of phase 3. Also the heroes of the MCU have been killing since Iron Man!🤷🏾♂️
yeah loving yelena when shes killed people but judging clint when hes done it, is odd
Yeah the hypocrisy and double standards were really apparent in this video
Difference is Yelana is not a hero, nor does she try to be. Hawkeye doesn't know what he wants to be. I don't think it makes him a more interesting character, just a more confusing character. This whole grim dark thing automatically making something interesting is an odd obsession and a bit of a misconception.
@@thestranger3588 When did any of the Avengers refer to themselves as heroes? Hawkeye is a SHIELD assassin who happens to save the world sometimes. When you actually look at the original roster you have an assassin, spy, fugitive, deity, soldier and an arms dealer. Not a very heroic group.🤷🏾♂️
I don't know about you Grace but Clint having a dark time and getting so much red on his ledger and dealing with the consequences just makes the MCU more interesting and different which is just SO REFRESHING to me.
This episode reminded me of why I love Marvel: everything is connected.
- Yelena being snapped: Infinity War
- Black Widows are no more: Black Widow
- Natasha’s death: Endgame
- Avengers Memorial : Avengers 2012
- New Statue of Liberty: Spider Man No Way Home
- and FREAKING KINGPIN
I think Clint wore the Ronin costume simply to put to rest, finally, the question of who Ronin actually was. Echo clearly wasn't buying his BS story that Ronin was dead, and so she might have still thought there was a possibility that Kate was Ronin, and the best way for Clint to clear Kate's name, once and for all, was to come clean that he, in fact, has always been Ronin.
I don't think Grace watches the episodes very closely. Her harping on Clint has more to do with his gender than the story.
We don’t know yet that Clint killed her father. He said “I was there that night.” “Someone wanted your father dead.” But he didn’t say “I killed him.” She attacked him before he could finish telling her what he wanted to say, then he fled.
Kevin feige keeps it simple
@@dannyo5364 It’s possible he killed him. I’m just saying Grace is jumping the gun saying we KNOW from today’s episode that he did.
@@dannyo5364 this! If Clint didn’t kill him he would have just said it flat out
THIS IS THE POWER OF A GREAT CASTING, Florence Pugh is just pure talent
And Nepotism let's not forget that. Love Florence Pugh
Ronin in the MCU executed organized crime figures during the 5 years, and, as it turns out, that includes ECHO's father. But ECHO's father was set up. Clearly, Clint is trying to earn the life that Natasha gifted him, knowing how he had spent his time during the blip.
Set up or turned on? At her dojo scene he’s wearing a tracksuit and Maya says Kazi was his number 2, so it seems he was active in organized crime.
5:34 REWATCH THE EPISODE. Clint didn't kill Echo's father. Not sure how so many people missed it but he specifically says he was there because he was tipped off but that the boss wanted her father killed. They made it abundantly clear that it was Kazi who Echo saw, not Clint. Maya even further hints at this when she questions the fact that Kazi wasn't at the meeting.
It seems like they were eluding to Kazi being the informant. He knew Ronin would attack that night because he informed him, so he didn’t go to the meeting. It wasn’t clear enough either way.
there was a shot in the episode of clint killing him tho
Kazi can't be the one that killed Echo's father and all those men. He got completly washed by Kate Bishop when they fought.
I actually thought that the show eluded to Clint not killing Echo’s father. He was there but I suspect Kazi was the one who actually killed him. This is why Echo questioned him about not being at the meeting that night
He wasn’t at the meeting because he’s was the informant who knew the attack was coming
@@eernol5210 That's what I got out of that too
This is what I thought too so now I’m confused
@@eernol5210 this clearly
That is clearly not what they meant. Hawkeye legit admits it. Kazi was the "informant" which is why he wasn't there so that he too will not get killed. Echo is mad because Kazi is also responsible for the death of her father.
To be honest, Thor's actual lastname in comics is Odinson. Just like Loki's is Laufeyson. It's not something just for the plaque
And Sylvie’s last name is Laufeydottir. It’s how naming conventions work, or used to work, in some places 🤷♀️
To be honest, I’m not surprised by the ‘lack’ of Clint in this show, I was personally going into this thinking of it more as a show to introduce Kate Bishop, and let her be Hawkeye, so I was expecting Clint to step aside, I feel like people may have got a bit confused with the shows intention, which is honestly very understandable as it is called ‘Hawkeye’ but yeah
There is no lack of Clint. He has been great
Tbh, she hasn't actually done anything to warrant her taking on the mantle of Hawkeye.
She'll need another season or appear in a movie because she hasn't done anything.
@@natsohigh5552 she just need more practice and experience from Clint.
@@randompeople465 lol true. She still is a bit inconsistent with the coin trick that Clint taught her which is nice.
I honestly felt like it had more of Clint then Kate
Florence Pugh and Hailee Steinfeld are so perfectly cast that it's insane. They both are RDJ as Iron Man level. As much as I would love to see Yelena on the Thunderbolts... I wouldn't mind if she was on a NEW Avengers team with Kate. I feel like Yelena, John and Zemo would have some great banter but the Girl's Night scene was so good. I hope we get more Kate and Yelena interactions after this show.
Alaqua Cox is also an example of great casting. I now have confidence that the Echo show will be excellent.
Yelena feels like a legit Black Widow more so than Natasha ever felt
Natasha seemed all talked up mythology and history while Yelena feels like what she says she is
I liked Yelana more in this show. She felt more dangerous.
True and while I am excited for Yelena, I always felt Natasha, Clint and even Bucky who was a supporting character , were short changed in the MCU to make other character arcs better. They all had much better stories than were told on film that would have worked in the narrative better than what we got. Time for next generation now.
ive never been able to buy scarlet johanson as a tough hardened assassin. Yelena on the other hand does have a good stone cold look thats convincing. atleast to me.
THIS EPISODE WAS SO GOOD I RISKED SEEING SPOILERS FOR SPIDER-MAN TO WATCH YOUR BREAKDOWN! Tbh Hawkeye is a name for Clint and Kate, like I entered this show expecting a balanced story for the two of them and I feel like I’m getting that so I’m stoked either way
what was good about episode? kingpin's 1 second cameo on a phone?
What the hell was good about this episode. What is the story for this show
He was a mindless weapon actually. His rage from losing his family did it to him, that's what he warns Echo about.
Clint Barton the SHIELD assassin and to a leser extent Hawkeye the Avenger were weapons aimed at targets by other people.
Ronin was a guy who had made the choice for himself to go kill some dudes and picked his own targets.
Clint/Hawkeye were weapons. Ronin was a murderer.
@@Carabas72 Both were weapons. One was a sniper rifle, the other a machine gun.
I find it so touching that after Yelena understood the blip, her first thought was to get to Nat and tell her she's okay. 🥺
She’s amazing! Easily my favorite new character in the MCU. And that last scene! Gave me the squeals!!! I actually feel there is equal time spent on both Clint and Kate. Not sure what all the fuss is bc we are slowly learning more and more about his family and his relationship w Laura. Hope that a certain someone shows up next week in more than a blurry cell phone photo.
I find this to be one of my favorite MCU shows. I like that we’re exploring, and possibly closing, Clint’s story and transitioning to the next phase of the MCU with Kate Bishop, Yelena, and Echo. The great thing about the MCU is they make you care about the characters, even the villains, so I find it interesting Grace has a difficult time processing Clint’s past. Clint tried redeeming himself after the Ronin stuff, by wanting to sacrifice himself in Endgame, but it worked out the way it worked out and Clint will need to spend his life making amends.
Though I grew to love Johansson’s Natasha, I agree with Grace that Yelena is the Black Widow I’ve always wanted. The accent, the humor, the glamour, russian fatalism and deadliness of the character are more in line with what I like about Black Widow in comics. I also think that Countessa De La Fontaine knows that Eleanor and Kingpin are criminals - local crime lords are are useful pawns in her much bigger global game. Maya is going to end up with the Ronin suit isn’t she?
Clint is the last person who would ever call himself a hero. He knows what he's done isn't the heroic thing, he never pretended otherwise. And Maya's father was no saint. Did he deserve to die? Who knows? We don't know if maybe he killed too. Just because we love Maya as a character, and I think she's great, doesn't mean that her father was a good man. And as for Yelena, she has no clue what happened to Natasha. Maybe she should talk to Clint and get his side before she trash-talks him. And again, he does not call himself a hero.
I would argue that nobody “deserves to die” and to whatever extent that they do deserve to die or be otherwise punished for their actions, that is not something that a random vigilante should decide.
@@leakylou2315 That’s ur opinion lol. Most people clearly don’t care
@@rl8259 Idk if you’ve ever heard of Black Lives Matter lol but clearly a lot of people do care.
@@leakylou2315 you’re confused now dude. He was talking about a tv show based on a comic book and you just equated it to real life events.
@@leakylou2315 That’s got nothing to do with this
Honestly, I feel that Clint and Kate share the series pretty well. I don't feel like one has more of a story than the other, and they both drive the story forward.
I feel like watching Pugh be "Yelena" is somewhere on par with watching RDJ be "Tony". She embodies this character and makes it so much more than that. With Tony's passing I have personally been worried about pure dialogue scenes and character moments in the MCU, but if Yelena takes a lead position within the 'next Avengers', I think we'll be ok. I agree that she feels "dangerous" even when she's just "relaxing", which I love! My only issue was her saying that she'd never been to NY! Being part of a notorious INTERNATIONAL assassin agency, that felt a little weird. But if she says it, I believe it. So excited to see what they do with this Black Widow!
Gotta say, I had a bigger reaction at seeing Kingpin this week, than Yelena last week. So good to see Vincent D'Onofrio back, now get him in the Spider-Verse.
I think that Hawkeye’s message is about family. And regardless of where you land on the moral spectrum (hero/bad guy) you’ll do whatever is needed to protect or in this case avenge those you love and hold dear the most. I like the murkiness of the show and it feels like the MCU is actually getting its hands dirty instead of always dictating and drawing such clear lines of good and evil.
The blip just seems terrifying when you know it returns the person to the exact same place. What if you blipped back in a building that no longer existed?
Like in the post credit scene where Maria Hill and Fury get blipped? Remember that helicopter that slammed into the building, presumably because the pilot got blipped...did the pilot then reappear in mid-air? So he would then fall to his death.
Hulk actually brought back everyone safely
Yelena character is so great because even though you know this is a Disney Show and they won’t just kill Kate Bishop soon as she walks in her apartment you feel like Yelena could have. You can feel how Dangerous she is. Even during WandaVision I never felt like Wanda would kill someone on a moment’s notice
It’s so impressive that Florence Pugh has been in one film and two episodes and already has become one of the best MCU characters and one of my faves. She oozes charisma
Val and Eleanor the evil duo we didn’t know we needed
Someone’s gotta help bank roll whatever Val is up to, so Eleanor would fit that. I think Sharon Carter is in on it, too. You know she’s got $tack$ from her Broker persona.
It’s cool to see the blip continue to be used in these newer characters’ stories and origins. Really makes you feel it’s connected. And wow is Florence Pugh AMAZING in this role.
“That’s not the take that everyone had…” you’re projecting again Grace. That was EXACTLY the message I received in Endgame. Sure Clint had a family and that influenced Natasha’s decision a bit. But I walked away with the strong sense that she sacrificed herself BECAUSE of the red in her ledger.
i mean she also said "this is what i've wait for the past 5 years, this moment", she wanted to bring everyone back and was willing to do whatever it takes for that to happen
Yeah Grace I don't know how you missed it. Natasha getting the red out her ledger was her whole deal in Endgame. Why she was still manning Avengers during the blip. I never once felt she was saving Clint cause he had a family. They were both fighting so hard to make the ultimate sacrifice because they both wanted to atone for their past
I'm surprised by the idea that the MCU doesnt deal with death or consequences?
Civil War was basically based around this concept. The Avengers dealing with the fallout of all the people killed in the past movies.
Theres Black Panther, with its opening having killed someone. Their son coming back later for revenge.
Bucky's journey in his tv show. (Subsequently John Walker and what he did as Captain America)
Shang Chi also struggled with killing after his father sent him.
To be honest, what Hawkeye says about being a weapon and pointed at something is very prevelent. (Shang Chi included)and what I love about that parallell to Echo is that Yelena is literally doing the same. Her anger at her sisters loss is being used as a weapon for someone else against Clint.
Lastly, I think it was quite clear that the battle between Natasha and Clint for the soul stone was over the "blood in the ledger" debate. Clint distraught over what he had done, which Natasha understood having always been trying to clean the blood in her ledger. But Clint actually had a reason to stay and atone, (for his family, and more so than Nat did.)
Anyway I just didnt agree with alot of what Grace said about this episode.
Florence Pughj is a star in this role. She really killed it. She deserves the spotlight
Eleanor really reminds of Mother Gothel: the dark red outfits, the scheming, and manipulating her daughter’s trust in her and in others so she looks like the good guy.
I really like that Clint has a lot of female influence because as you said some guys are like that and I’m one of them. I love that phase 4 has introduced more female characters and more female characters are getting spotlight
I'm glad that Hawkeye explored this dark side of Clint. I mean realistically our MCU favorites have all killed people so to have it explored more in depth is fascinating. Not sure why you have such a problem with it. I loved the Yelena dusting scene. It took me a few seconds to realize what had happened, but it was so neat to see it from the point of view of a character. I also liked the girls night out scene. I agree that it was acted very well by both actors. I was worried about the MCU losing so many great characters, but these two have been great additions and I'm looking forward to seeing their adventures going forward.
So happy to finally have Wilson “YOU EMBARRASSED ME IN FRONT OF VANESSA” Fisk in the MCU (properly)!! Vincent D’Onofrio was too good in the role to just leave behind.
wasnt he defeated and in jail at the end of daredevil?
could have escaped during the blip if matt got snapped
@@mk6rfc1 Definitely.
I love this episode! Florence Pugh and Hailee Steinfield are incredible!
And Wilson Fisk portrayed again by Vincent D’Onofrio! OMG! I wonder what that means for the Netflix series? Does it make them canon? Or is Marvel going to proceed and explain it away as one of the many multiverses? Anything’s possible!
Pretty sure this Kingpin will end up being a variant who is similar but not identical to the Netflix one. That way they can adapt the character into the MCU without having to strictly follow the Netflix canon.
Pretty sure they mention the battle of NYC in like the first episode of Daredevil. Still doesn’t rule out multiverse though.
Yelana is very quickly becoming my second favourite mcu character
The way they showed the snap from Yelena's perspective was so trippy and cool
I’m still holding on to the belief that Nat is making a comeback someday myself. I’m appreciating her death way more here than her solo outing. Needless to say, I enjoyed that for what it was too. Yelena stole the show in Black Widow and she’s doing it here as well. I think Nat’s arc was very safe but well done. With Yelena, we’re fleshing out what it really means to be a Black Widow assassin and I am for it. This show serves as Nat’s eulogy and it’s excellent writing for an emotional return later on!
That's the thing here. Clint specifically said to Kate that he's NOT a role model or a hero. He knows he messed up and he's owning it by revealing his real face to Echo during that episode. But he also wants her to understand that there's someone else in that story who wanted her father dead.
So now the choice is on Echo, is vengeance the only way, or not ? I think this show is doing a real good job with those characters. And yeah it's a bummer that we don't have more Clint in this show but oh well at least we got to see him fight one last time during episode 3 and we'll maybe see him fight during next episode.
I think the point he made this episode is that his pain was used to turn him into a monster, and he’s trying to stop that from happening to Echo (and probably Kate and Yelena eventually).
We saw Clint killing yakuza in Endgame and was said to have taken out a cartel in Mexico. During the blip he was going after organized crime. Killing isn’t new to the MCU. Stark sold weapons. Bucky was a killer. Steve killed in war and for SHIELD (he literally tried to decapitate Batroc on the boat). Nat has killed. We can’t now judge Clint just because we see the relatives of one of his victims.
Clint being tipped off to kill Echo's father is the EXACT same situation Yelena finds herself in with being assigned to kill Clint.
Thor does have a last name Grace it is "Odinson" its been said multiple times in the MCU. Lokis last name is "Laufeyson" they are going by old naming conventions and Loki is the son of Laufey. Loki said his last name himself in his show.
I always got the feeling that Natasha felt guilty for what she was done in the past.
Yes she loved Clint and his family but she also felt like she has to atone for her sins.
Why are just now realizing that Clint has killed many people? Not just as ronin, he did so as “Hawkeye” before he became an avenger. The red in both Natasha and Clint’s ledger has always been a reference to them killing people
This happens a lot, we as viewers only care about these things once it affects characters we like.
In Game of Thrones, people were willing to see Tywin Lannister as a hardened but reasonable man all through Seasons 1 and 2 until he told Tyrion to go f*** himself in Season 3. We didn't care about any of his other bad actions up till then UNTIL he was mean to Tyrion.
Maybe the Hawkeye series is a testing ground for more grounded, grittier, teeny bit darker street level stories in the future. With DD and Fisk back, and with Moon Knight, they wanna see how far they can take things if/when characters like Punisher and Wolvie come
I'm really hoping they'll eventually do the "these claws are for dismembering and gutting, bub" type Wolverine. That's what drew me to him as a character in the early X-men comics. You had this team of heroes, and then you had Wolverine, a dangerous and unpredictable killer. Made for some great tension.
"Clint and Nat might have missed their window." No, Grace. The writers and Disney have chosen to include a lot of women and relatively little Clint. That's not missing a window. It's a very conscious decision. This show could have been *all* Clint. It could have been Clint alone in an office building on Christmas night, a la Die Hard, fighting faceless goons and only talking to supporting characters over the phone, and people would have liked it if it were good. I'm not even contesting the decision to make the show female-centric right now ... I'm just saying it's not an accident or a twist of fate. lol
I feel king pin is gonna private jet hawkeye back to his family for christmas. What a swell guy
haha! :)
The music that played when Clint visited the memorial was so beautiful, it was the same theme when Natasha (and Gamora) died and it always gets me choked up.
Sidenote: I'm so happy you mentioned the fact that some guys just prefer to be around woman in general. Some of my best friends, and many other platonic relationships, are with woman. I just feel more comfortable and at ease with them. It is something that is barely explored in media because it always has to be a romantic relationship first. I think one of the best platonic relationships is Tina Fey & Alec Baldwin in 30 Rock way back.
What?! Grace, when Clint confronted Echo, I did not get the message that he confessed to killing get father. The opposite. I got the message that Kingpin had her father killed.
So did I. I was so confused by Grace’s comment (and other comments on this video). I guess we’ll have to wait until the next episode for confirmation, but it definitely sounded like Clint was eluding that he didn’t kill Echo’s father.
Yelena was so good in this show!! I could've watched her all day in the show. They didn't need any action with how much spark she brought. Loved her!! The conversation eith her and Kate was so good!!!
Perfect timing yet again! Literally just closed out my browser. For a penultimate episode, I’m kind of let down a little bit. I did love the Yelena scenes, though. I also loved how they portrayed the time jump at the beginning. Florence is just amazing all-around.
Yes same as soon as I finished this was uploaded. 6 episodes only dang. I really liked Yelena in this and Kate usually sells me on the show but this time the blip visuals did, well done!
I was raised with 5 sisters and have always found myself drawn to having more female friends (platonic) than male friends. I’ve never heard anyone articulate that out loud and truly am grateful for your insights!
I love Yelena, and I’m so happy for Florence Pugh, she’s such an amazing actress, and woman in general, I’ve loved her since Fighting With My Family, I highly recommend it if you haven’t yet seen it, but I’m so glad she’s getting the popularity and recognition she’s always deserved
That was a great movie. I thought Pugh was miscast in Little Women but she is perfect as Yelena. So I guess I like Pugh as kickass women.
@@sadie513 I loved her in both "Fighting..." and Little Women, although not everyone liked her portrayal of Amy.
Clint was in rage, he was used by others to kill.
Maya was in rage, she is used by others to try to kill (don't know if she actually killed anyone)
Yelena was in rage (I think she was because she thinks Clint is responsible for her sister's death), she is also being used to kill others.
I see a theme there. And, that's what Clint was trying to explain Maya.
And if Maya forgives him, if she sees the bigger picture, then it will be a great lesson of compassion. Recently, I watched the Daredevil series for the first time. The priest character always tries to emphasize the idea of how when you kill, that bleeds into your family and friends. A human is not just a human, but a whole world. And true greatness comes only when you are pushed to the extreme corner, broken, vengeful, and yet come out of there with a moral upper hand. That is a true awakening. If that happens to Echo in such an early stage. She will be one hell of a Superhero.
Thank you! I thought I was the only one who read it like this.
How was it confirmed that Laura is Mockingbird? It looks very likely that she's an agent, but I missed the confirmation.
Clint Barton losing his entire family and becoming judge, jury, and executioner is basically what happens to the Punisher. Outside of wanting to find out who killed his family (because it’s obvious it’s Thanos), they’re paths are very similar. Ronin is more or less “Sword Punisher” as far as we’ve seen in this show.
😎 True neither Ronin or the Punisher are actually heroes.
Frank will 'punish' (read: kill) any criminal. He doesn't care whether the criminal is guilty of a white collar crime, jaywalking, littering, murder or rape.
And Ronin doesn't care if the career criminal is a money launderer or a drug trafficker, all he wants is not feel the loss of his family which he achieves by going after organised crime.
Grace is a perfect example of willing ignorance of the real world. Sometimes people die
very anglo-saxon
@@NickTarik What culture are you saying hasn't killed, made war, or was lacking in corruption?
I never realized how much he did work with women. He was amazing with Natasha in avengers and even when Wanda joined the avengers he’s relationship with her was strong as well.
WHAT IF: Laura was as the Ronin working for Kingpin. And Clint put on the Ronin suit to settle loose ends from his wife past during the blip. The watch holds the piece of evidence that the Ronin was in fact Laura ALL ALONG.
One thing I’m concerned about with the MCU as it goes on is that it’s size may be getting to big to keep consistency. Just like with comics, with so many different writers and creative teams, it’s hard to keep character development and personalities consistent. I’m seeing some of that happen with certain characters and stories in phase 4.
That is my concern too more so than the Character's Identities,even though I am still a purist in that regard
The Winter soldier was the time to focus on Hawkeye and Natasha....but they quickly moved on to Civil War and Black Panther that was the window and the opportunity was definitely missed. Hawkeye is great especially after following Captain America. I don't have no complaints except that the series might be a little too short. 🤷🏾♂️
This was a pretty low key episode but has some big reveals that mean a lot. I liked Clint muting the world so he could talk to Nat and he realizes that he’s living a life in exchange for her’s.
They cared about Tony’s death, especially in Far From Home their was artwork with him all over the world from New York to Europe
She’s just salty Cap is the first name on the plaque with all the Avenger’s name’s.
The watch alongs are so fun! Kinda sad its gonna be over for a while next week but soo excited to see how it ends!
Clint says "We are the same...we are weapons and we can be manipulated." The only reason he would say that is if he wasn't the one who killed Echo's father. Echo coming after Clint because he's Ronin isn't manipulation - it's revenge. So saying she was manipulated doesn't make any sense unless he didn't do it and she was tricked into thinking he did. So, no. I still don't think it was Clint.
I don't follow the logic but I think that's exactly how it will turn out.
Ronin was manipulated by kingpin to kill some henchmen kingpin wanted dead. He wasn’t innocent, but he would not have done it without kingpin.
Echo was manipulated by kingpin to think ronin committed the murders in his own. This meant she hates ronin but trusts kingpin, even though it was kingpin who arranged the murder.
Can murderers get away with killing and call them self heroes? CIA : hold my beer.
Thanks for the video. I find it odd that you are not willing to not let Clint off the hook on killing all those people yet Yelena also has a lot of red on her Ledger and blindly went after Clint without hearing him out of the event's that happen in Endgame. So saying that you side with Echo is also ridiculous considering that she went into the family business to work for the Kingpin and probably had to kill a few people in her pursuit of revenge. Grace get your moral priorities straight. Speaking of morals, I'm waiting for Fiege to start paging Frank Castle on his take on killing people who deserve to die.😉
The vocally twirl there mustache joke was very funny
"How do you reconcile characters who kill and continue to kill in a jokey world like the MCU?" - Uh... have we been watching the same MCU Grace? Heroes killing have been a thing since... the first Iron Man movie when Tony Stark first used his new armor to take out the 10 Ring terrorist organization. As we've seen heroes kill villains or those associated with them in so many of the movies and shows. Even Ant Man killed (or at least seemingly killed) Yellowjacket at the end of his movie. Like granted none of the heroes are conciously just usually going off killing for the sake of it but quite honestly I find it more interesting and realistic that Clint actually DID kill Maya's father because he actual was a criminal then someone else doing it and really, this show is about shades of grey (sans Kingpin it seems like all the other "baddies" on this show are motivated by either a solid reason for wanting to take a life or wanting to protect someone to do their deeds) so I'm fine with our heroes having it. I mean Natasha has gone on about all the red in her ledger so it makes sense Clint would have some in his as well.
The consequence part didn’t make sense to me either.
The blip was the consequence of the avengers disbanding.
Clint became ronin as a consequence of the blip.
Echo is trying to kill him as a consequence of what he did as ronin.
The whole dang cinematic universe is based on consequences.
@@MsDiving1 The Avengers disbanded because of the consequence on being on opposing sides of the Sokovia accords.
The Sokovia accords were a consequence of Ultron decimating an entire city to try and destroy the world.
Ultron was the consequence of Tony Stark believing he had to make something to save the entire world from an otherwise unstoppoable fate.
Tony Stark believed that as a consequences of Scarlet Witch manipulating him to do so.
Scarlet Witch manipulated him-
Like seriously we could keep going back and back and back as yeah consequences were there since the original Iron Man for someone's actions. So it's ALWAYS been a part of the equation quite honestly. I think the only difference is this is played much more at street level without as many big jokes and... maybe Grace is trying to ignore those other actions because Tony Stark did them and you know she loves Tony Stark so much but why Tony worked so much as a character was because of his flaws and mistakes which he made quite a number out of. So did Clint but that doesn't mean his are a lot worse just because he doesn't have super special ultra advance gear and a more dashing boisterous personality.
17:13 - Thor has always had Odinson as his last name. It's been in the comics and ancient Norse mythology. Thor, son of Odin. It's like Coulson. Thor referred to him as the son of Coul in Avengers, cuz that's what it means in Thor's culture. Interestingly, Grace's last name "Randolph" is actually from the Nordic culture too and it means shield of the wolf. So if Thor Odinson met Grace Randolph he would immediately assume she was a shield maiden: part of the defensive line for a well armed castle which used a wolf in its family crest. As for Clint's name at the bottom of the list, that goes back to Kate's talk about branding, but also Clint's preference to "Not Be Seen" (obscure Monty Python reference there).
Grace Ironman killed bad people in his first movie.
Hawkeye is an Assassin by trade.
Black Widow is an Assassin by trade.
So what are you talking about?
Captain America is a soldier.
He killed many people even in the first Avengers movie.
This
Grace..you owe me a glass of milk that was inconveniently shot out my nose at the quip, "I've never heard someone vocally twirl their mustache before, but he does it!"...LOLz! 🥛😂🤣🎯
Wait. Aren't they implying heavily that Echo's "number 2" was the one that dressed up as Ronin amd took out her dad? The whole scene where she questioned him about why he wasnt there that day??
Exactly. Was looking to see if someone mentioned this.
No, i think the implication was her N2 was the informant, who gave the name and location of the meeting to Clint
I took it as kingpin didn’t want him dead so just didn’t invite him to the meeting.
That Mac and Cheese scene was the highlight of the episode. I just kept rewinding.
Clint was always an assassin "Always" he was sent to kill BW he was sent to kill Thor, that was his job. You don't hire a Markman's to wound people. The MCU is full of assassins, and Killers Melinda May, Ironman, Cap, Falcon, Thor, Punisher, hell everyone on Agents of Shield kills, Fury, Hill, heck who does not kill? It's interesting that they are setting up the Black Widow and Hawkeye as best friends again.
Yelena was straight up terrifying in that 'girls night' scene with Kate Bishop, great portrayal of casual menace, and great review of superhero violence.
just having Kingpin ina still frame was a cop out though
Yelena was my favorite thing in this episode 🤍
I’m actually glad the mcu made it so that Clint was the one to kill her father. Now it doesn’t cheapen the theme of Clint dealing with his past demons and his past self. It makes it more believable what Clint is going through and the impact Natasha had on him. Also the fact he feels like he’s just a weapon that could be manipulated by anyone, even his own anger/rage is rlly believable when us as the audience have actual moments to reference, like him killing Echos father and her coming back to get revenge, that’s a prime example of his past actions coming back to haunt him
Great observation about Clint gravitating to women! And HILARIOUS coining of the term “½ Murderer” 😂. Also I feel Tony’s death was handled and explored further in Spider-Man Far from Home. That was the MCUs opportunity to delve deeper on his passing. And like you said the Hawkeye series is now their chance for Black Widow’s death. So it works nicely! Great video Grace 👍🏾 ⚡️
armor wars will deal with tony's legacy too
This was probably the best Marvel Disney Plus episode I've seen. Grounded, interesting, sets up Clint and his wife as anti-hero's, introduces some serious solid characters, and if it doesn't end w/Clint back at home for Christmas introducing Kate to his family I'll be disappointed.
Oh my God! It just hit me. Natasha sacrificed herself to bring her sister back! The feels!!! Now that leap on Vormire has a whole new meaning for Clint, Natasha and Yelena
Lol. Wow! Light bulb moment for you🤔 Its literally been mentioned by multiple reaction channels and emphasized in The Black Widow movie. Welcome to the party😎
Yeah, it justifies even moreso why Natasha was so sad and weepy in Endgame, too. She'd lost her sister who she'd recently reconnected with.
We all love Yelena. A very nice addition.
17:42 this is why I love Grace’s videos so much! It’s so true that Tony would be saying that! 😂
Police kill, uncheck here in America, why not fictional heroes in the MCU? lol... Is that too much? smh! I don't think most people really care, Grace!
school shooting in the next Spider-Man so we know it's real...