The Curse of Smol Bean Syndrome

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 มิ.ย. 2024
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    0:00 Smol Bean Syndrome
    3:02 Playing shady
    4:36 Transparent deck examples
    7:18 Fight the Table Ideology
    12:20 Roll Credits
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ความคิดเห็น • 488

  • @turtlelovingfilms
    @turtlelovingfilms 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1292

    I know he’s saying words, but all I’m hearing is “this is how bottoms play, and this is how tops play”

    • @VultureXV
      @VultureXV 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +22

      More like Low T vs High T

    • @zimbobway3137
      @zimbobway3137 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +30

      Oh so this is like a gay thing? Pass

    • @scipio6142
      @scipio6142 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +141

      not necessarily, topping and bottoming can be for everyone :D

    • @iidoyila
      @iidoyila 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      yeah, girls are bottoms if they take it and they are tops if they femdom

    • @Sigma_Femcel
      @Sigma_Femcel 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +49

      How do I play like a switch? 😂

  • @Leonidous
    @Leonidous 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +913

    My friend used to play a deck of 99 basic lands with Kenrith as the commander and an Obosh companion. The plan was basically to make deals and group hug your opponents to stay alive until it was a 1v1 then put a bunch of counter and Kenrith and go for a commander damage with with Obosh there to help push damage. That deck picked up wins more often than it probably should have just by being completely transparent with what it was doing.

    • @ich3730
      @ich3730 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +109

      Thats genius, it puts the social aspect of EDH on display and how absurd it can be as a "competitive" game. Even tho he build his deck like dogshit and openly admits that to his opponents, he can essentially gaslight his way to victory just by whining and being annoying at the table. I used to do something similar with ashling the prilgrim or ragavan, build 99 basic lands.dec and then complain every time someone attacks me that im "just the lands meme guy".

    • @bryceduyvewaardt8136
      @bryceduyvewaardt8136 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +11

      That’s a diabolical idea for a deck and I adore it!

    • @zeroisnine
      @zeroisnine 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

      100% your deck design and politics need to be consistent.

    • @xXRickTrolledXx
      @xXRickTrolledXx 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +20

      a real "you wouldn't punch a guy with glasses" moment

    • @schwarzertee7586
      @schwarzertee7586 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@ich3730 yes it is genius but mostly because a lot of edh players are fucking retarded. just turn your creatures sideways and if there's free damage to be dealt deal it. that really helps against such decks.
      also also: if such deck was in my meta all my decks would run cards like darksteel mutation and alike. and I'd just wait until it's a 1v1 and just cuck their commander. maybe remove it first if it already got counters on it.

  • @Krensharpaw
    @Krensharpaw 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +520

    The funny thing is, most of the time I have ever done the "I'm a smol bean" is when there is clearly a bigger threat on the table and someone decides to target me.
    Even I will be like "hey, I get that said card can become a problem... but there is a 15/15 with infect on the field and he can give it unblockable... so wtf are you coming at me so hard right now?!".

    • @salubrioussnail
      @salubrioussnail  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +226

      Yup, whenever I’m asking somebody not to attack me it’s usually because I want somebody else’s life total to go down, not because I’m trying to preserve my own.

    • @adamrobinson6951
      @adamrobinson6951 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +59

      The number of games I've seen where the player removing my stuff or wiping the board loses on the next turn to the threat I was trying to warn them about is too high. Yes, I have 40 power on board but that's just about lethal on him and I need to kill him on my turn or he's winning the game.

    • @Krensharpaw
      @Krensharpaw 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +39

      @@adamrobinson6951 same with me.
      I have said many times "guys, he's about to win... I'm trying to stop him. So why have you all aimed your stuff at me? I can't win yet... we should work together if you want to have a chance to even win".
      And then we all lose and they all have the shocked pickachu face on and are like "we didn't know...".

    • @xaropevic7918
      @xaropevic7918 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

      @@adamrobinson6951 that reminded me about one of the two or three games that the maelstrom wanderer won alone (not on a team and that guy play it a lot) was when a guy casted blasphemous act to destroy my ancient forgotten (he was at 12 toughness) and other things, so we wasn't able to focus on him quick enough (which happens most of the time when he plays that commander)

    • @TheLimedew
      @TheLimedew 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +8

      Lmao the funny thing i had recently was where the guy running the 15/15 infect was trying to small bean himself.

  • @mattbell888
    @mattbell888 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +243

    There's a guy in my playgroup who is generally the threat with explosive combos but he adopts a "you die first" anti-threat argument. Which works surprisingly well.

    • @Grombrindal
      @Grombrindal 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +14

      "Playgroup" just sounds soft, like you guys are going to go get manicures after you're done losing to combo boy

    • @DarkinBladeGaming
      @DarkinBladeGaming 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +88

      Ah the old "I have Aetherflux and 60 life, try anything and I'll nuke you in response" setup

    • @jonasharp3
      @jonasharp3 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +130

      @@Grombrindalso you’re triggered over a common phrase, and expect us to believe that you aren’t the soft one?

    • @andrewmccoy2547
      @andrewmccoy2547 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +40

      @@jonasharp3lol and he’s cosplaying as a character from warhammer on his public profile 😅

    • @jimshotfirst4887
      @jimshotfirst4887 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +52

      @@Grombrindal if you’re so worried about seeming “soft” that you’re too scared to use a word, then you’ve already failed

  • @eriks_trip
    @eriks_trip 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +81

    "Fight the Table" is such a great way of viewing the format. A few years ago I had this Yeva, Nature's Herald deck I was never really happy when playing, and I couldn't figure out why. It scratched all my itches -- it played aggressively, it used an unusual commander to frequently surprising effect (slamming Green Dragon or Spore Frog during combat, etc.) and it did all the ramping, drawing, and attacking I needed it to do to win. On reflection and seeing this video, it seems clear to me now that it was all about how it played to my opponents. They were vastly overestimating the deck's power because flash SEEMS like a scary keyword to have on creatures, and to them my empty or lackluster board state could always become their worst nightmares, instead of the reality which was the deck did a little ramping, played some creatures, and attacked. In essence, my deck was lying to my opponents about how scary it really was. I rebuilt it as Toski and it's been all the better for it.

    • @garak55
      @garak55 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      If your opponents think a monogreen deck has some kind of hidden plan to win out of nowhere that doesn't include putting big dudes in play and turning sideways, you need better opponents.

  • @wheresdad2894
    @wheresdad2894 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +62

    My friend group use to unintentionally deploy the smol bean strategy but we’ve made a decision last year that if it’s like turn 5 and a person hasn’t played a creature yet, then sure swing at them, atleast then it’ll incentivise them to fix their decks. Theres this stigma that you shouldn’t take someone out early because then they can’t play for the rest of the game, but by being ruthless and killing whenever you can, it’s resulted in us being able to actually play more than 1 game

    • @jerryb216
      @jerryb216 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      I have only played commander once and my deck was just random jank I had put together from drafts over the years.
      My friend told me I would stand no chance against his deck which he had been building for a few years and had roughly 1.5k worth of cards.
      I went through with playing and while I only managed to play like 4 cards before he fucking slaughtered me, I had a lot of fun

  • @Ramschat
    @Ramschat 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +159

    My Child of Alara reanimator deck is all about 'fight the table'. I realised a decade ago that it was more fun to win while openly telling people that I was trying to crush them all. No politics, no combo out of nowhere, but pure synergy and value.

    • @nickhannah7234
      @nickhannah7234 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      List?

    • @Akario3
      @Akario3 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      the archenemy, nice

    • @adoo765
      @adoo765 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Yeah me too, specially because i have a lot of scary commanders like Zacama, Tiamat, Korvold, wich put a target in my back as soon as the game starts and usually when the table kills me im 1 turn away from a win

  • @aclevermtgpunthatsactually5010
    @aclevermtgpunthatsactually5010 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +64

    This channel has put into words issues I've had with my decks, deckbuilding, and across different playgroups, in a perspective I never saw but that feels logical and makes sense. Thank you for your work!

  • @Vok250
    @Vok250 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

    3 v 1 when one person has a big scary deck is actually my favorite pod dynamic.

  • @VultureXV
    @VultureXV 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +99

    My response to being attacked is always, "You mean _I'm_ thd biggest threat here? Sweet!".

    • @zombieslayer2016
      @zombieslayer2016 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      That's not always the case in my experience sometimes the person getting attacked is it's only being attacked because they're open and attacking them will allow the deck to do things like combat damage/attack triggers or life gain

    • @VultureXV
      @VultureXV 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@zombieslayer2016
      oh that's just playing the game and trying to bump value.
      I'm more or less talking about "shooting to kill" as if trying to bump someone out.

    • @solbradguy7628
      @solbradguy7628 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      Yeah my experience is that a lot of times though people just want to hit *somebody* to get some kind of value for themselves. My Rakdos, Lord of Riots deck needs to deal damage to someone just to be able to play the commander. My friend's Gishath deck needs to hit somebody to cheat out dinosaurs. The same friend's Isshin deck needs to attack to get value off its double triggers. Interactions like these are really common in my pod, someone is looking to attack and it doesn't really matter who it is. So they're going to hit whoever is open.
      A really common question at our table is "Who's got blockers?" or "Who's got flying?". For that reason I started running a lot of flying deathtouch creatures like Baleful Strix and Stinkweed Imp. So not only can I say "I have a flying blocker" but "You will lose something if you attack me."

    • @wazzledog1007
      @wazzledog1007 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      I do love respect damage.

    • @oktalley99
      @oktalley99 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      being taken out early is a testament to what you can achieve, never believe anything else

  • @FPzero
    @FPzero 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +34

    My friend uses smol bean syndrome all the time which is hilarious in its own way because we all know his strongest deck is an Earthcraft/Squirrel Nest/Parallel Lives/Goblin Bombardment combo and the deck's whole purpose is to stall out until he assembles the pieces or dies trying. No wonder we all hit him for damage before his shields go up!
    I really appreciate the videos you've made, they make me rethink a number of my own deck-building decisions, and I'm probably going to adjust a couple of them as a result. I definitely need better focus in my decks.

  • @W0lfguard1997
    @W0lfguard1997 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +31

    The Smol Bean and transparent gameplan hit the nail on the head for me.
    My decks are always exclusively built around one aspect of the commander. So an anikthea deck with 35 lands and 64 other enchantments. Preferably big ones and ways to get extra token copies.
    The plan couldn't be more obvious, as the other player can always see which enchantments go to my graveyard before I resummon them. Then I tend to pull the Smol bean card - because I just got my last 6 enchantments I played blown up immediately so I don't get hit by every creature my opponents have available.
    And then the removal runs out, I play her for the 7th time and suddenly I have 6 copies of "Song of the worldsoul" and lethal damage on board.
    I'm always playing with the same friend group and they apparently aren't that tired of my shit that they would kill me before I do my crazy turns. Even though I'm probably sitting around a 50% winrate on our table.

  • @grip7777
    @grip7777 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +49

    Nice video, my playgroup are kind of wierd in that we encourage each other to attack since noone is particularly aggressive as a person, we also acknowledge the archenemy title when it is given to us, even when it usually means last place. I only play commander with friends and it's a lot easier to be as open as possible.

  • @pascalsimioli6777
    @pascalsimioli6777 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +14

    Me asking for mercy because I'm 1 turn away from locking the board into eternal war with my slow af Kardur Doomscourge starter deck:

  • @Veto2090
    @Veto2090 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

    AKA "Play green"

  • @danielharrison2383
    @danielharrison2383 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +25

    I have been in several pods where I am looked at poorly for playing the game. They cry foul when I attack or when I aggressively try to control a known powerful deck.

    • @nicks4802
      @nicks4802 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      Its problem when you only pull out your control deck because you heard that another deck is at the table.
      Thats called meta gaming,
      And you’re targeting another player specifically to ruin their chances if you do that, which is uncool.
      Don’t be “that guy”

    • @misterfox6094
      @misterfox6094 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      No, it's a problem when a known deck goes unchecked.
      If I pull out a deck specifically because I know what commander someone is playing...it's warranted

    • @danielharrison2383
      @danielharrison2383 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      @@nicks4802 oh no, you misunderstood. I don't meta game. we only reveal our commanders once we have already picked what we are playing. Most of my decks run a healthy amount of interaction because most of the people i play with use infinite combos.

  • @agentkhaine2204
    @agentkhaine2204 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +10

    All my casual decks deliberately can’t do the sudden synergistic/infinite wins out of nowhere. Instead I have opponents trying to figure out what I could possibly be hiding because removing their cards and deploying beaters each turn makes them paranoid.
    TL;DR great video!

    • @PokeMultiverse
      @PokeMultiverse 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      and then after many turns, theyre going crazy trying to figure out your strategy and you point out theyre at 12 life from all the nickel and dimes over the game. "What? you can win over time?"

  • @treycuret
    @treycuret 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +13

    I've been to about 20 different LGSs over the past year and let me tell you that these logical, analytical people you're playing with are not the norm.
    I've spent more time explaining to the other aggro deck that we can't be wasting resources on each other while the other two ramp decks do nothing than I'd like to admit.

  • @brycematthew3115
    @brycematthew3115 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +13

    I don't think this really matches my experience of the format. My favorite comparison point was when I had made 2 decks, Atraxa infect, and a Raff, Weatherlight Stalwart deck based on twiddling lands. Of the two, Raff is just the better deck. Better strategy, better commander, and also.. people think its worse.
    Atraxa shows exactly what she's doing, and tries to work directly toward a win condition. There's very little hidden there. Every game was a huge slog where people wanted to stop me at all costs.
    The raff deck? Spellslinging token payoffs + weird white land ramp and lands that tap for more than 1 + twiddle effects. Very weird and techy, way better than the atraxa deck, was almost never the focus of the table. Which mostly meant free wins because nobody tried to stop anything I did.
    And I know the obvious thing here is "people hate infect", but I think this comparison is just as true for any of my decks that were trying to hit people with creatures, vs. ones that aren't. I definitely think that keeping your threat from being visible makes it easier to play the game.

    • @aR0ttenBANANA
      @aR0ttenBANANA 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      The average casual player is absolutely ass at threat assessment

    • @Flaoto
      @Flaoto 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      Same for me. The argument that when people dont get what or why you are playing spells they get scared and thus attack you has never happened to me. When people dont get it they will just ignore it but if you have obvious strong board state that will make you the target

  • @xalls2389
    @xalls2389 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +15

    I think another important element of deck consistency is cardpool? As weird as that may sound, it's actually a fairly narrow slice of mechanics that are benefited most by Magic's immense cardpool, and trying to build around mill is inherently more likely to be consistent than a "splice onto arcane" deck. Proliferation of one-size-fits-all mechanics like Morophon can mitigate these on some simpler levels, but especially when exploring novel mechanical spaces like Mutate, Splice, Power/Toughness Inversion, Moving Counters, and double especially when exploring those mechanics in a limited color identity in a singleton format, that's often either nowhere near enough, or just simply eclipses the intent of the original mechanic. I've built hundreds of decks in my time playing magic, and left hundreds more on the cutting room floor, and a problem I often run into is 'does this archetype even exist yet?' - sometimes only finding 10 or 15 cards that actually support my main synergy.
    When the team at WotC is exploring design space, this problem compounds upon itself, as overlooked and underutilized mechanics have a tendency to remain so, while popular mechanics will see "a new twist" or simply power-crept versions, new lords for particular subtypes, and, well, a lot of the stuff mentioned in the Cycling video on this channel. This is further exacerbated by the shift away from the block structure, which has resulted in a lot of one-off mechanics that never get the time or support to shine, and are then promptly abandoned in favor of bringing back the same rotating cast of a dozen near-evergreen archetypes. Holes are dug deeper and deeper, in some cases, new mechanics are even stapled onto existing archetypes rather than being given their own room to thrive, creating a design space less akin to a developed landscape and more akin to a series of cavernous pits, all labeled and reinforced courtesy of EDHrec.

    • @LibertyMonk
      @LibertyMonk 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      You don't have to have 30+ playable cards in an archetype to make a deck that seems consistent, but you'll probably have to add a sub-theme or two to fill it out, unless you're willing to go a little heavy on cards selection or removal/interaction. 10-15 playable cards or so is already a quarter of your non-Lands, you can expect to see a couple every game.
      Just don't fill your blank spots with Sanguine Bond or Exquisite Blood, just because you've got a vampire/lifelink sub-theme and have a copy of each from opening random prize packs. It's such an easy trap to fall into. I slotted them right into my garbage-tier Anowon deck.

  • @Maethendias
    @Maethendias 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +8

    hillarious how much of this video applies to teamfortress 2 "friendlies"

  • @zachk7305
    @zachk7305 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    When I watched your EDH red video I did not realize that this was the beginning of regular videos talking about the difficult, less obvious, and/or controversial topics in my favorite format. I will gladly get on the patreon train for more MS Paint EDH soap box content 👌

  • @arclight3213
    @arclight3213 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    I really like your magic philosophy. This has heavily inspired me to rework a few decks i have that "basically do nothing until they pop off"

  • @CsquidyC
    @CsquidyC 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +30

    I only Smol Bean when:
    1) My opponent is choosing who wins or loses the game (so I gotta convincing him to let me win so I can stomp him later)
    2) My opponent is casting removal on my shit when someone else is popping off way crazier. Like I'm trying to deal with this guy's shit over here and you're gonna do that to me? >:(

  • @spaal6115
    @spaal6115 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Arixmathese is a commander that has stuck with me and probably been the most consistent fun I've had with the format, and I'd say transparency and fighting the table are both why. What it says in the tin is what you get. Major ramp, big sea creatures, and a handful of blue shenanigans like bounce and card draw. It has tools needed to deal with the situation should I suddenly find myself as the target, and can generally be read by everyone at the table based on the boardstate.
    What a well worded, informative video.

  • @fadianwickstrom5970
    @fadianwickstrom5970 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +15

    Excellent video on commander theory and praxis. 100% agree that this is a great way to play agains newer player but would also like to say that it's a lot of fun to get to figure out what your opponents are doing once you get a couple of years under your belt

    • @nonsuperimposable
      @nonsuperimposable 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      yeah id rather not be completely transparent about everything im doing, otherwise whats the point in even having hidden information?

    • @ekuude
      @ekuude 5 หลายเดือนก่อน

      ​@@nonsuperimposableletting newer players know about obscure instant win combos is not the same as being completely transparent! I feel like you misinterpreted the video. You dont need to pull a fast one on people who didnt even know what to play against. How is that fun? You don't telegraph every play, you still can bluff/lie/politic without being obtuse about how your deck plans to win in an average game. I was once a newer player and KNOWING that my opponent has half of their combo on board and figuring out what i can do to win around it or stop them is fun. Random wins out of nowhere are not fun, as a player who has been on both ends of that interaction. You can still play however you'd like, no one is stopping you.

  • @Desenko86
    @Desenko86 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Your channel is fantastic, keep it up.

  • @infamousXsniper055
    @infamousXsniper055 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    This explains how I like to play commander very well. Good job with the video.
    I realized awhile ago that a big part of what makes turn-based games fun, is being presented with a problem and then being given a chance to figure out a solution to it. A deck which combos off out of nowhere, at a table which isn't ready with interaction to deal with it, violates that. The other players had no chance, they just suddenly lost. This is why I've been making decks which have to build up some kind of obvious board state to win or which give the other players at least one turn before winning. Even having a game ending combo being playing out infinite creatures without haste is a much better win con, since it at least gives your opponents each a turn to try and find a board wipe or other way to stop your attack. I for one really enjoy those final turns where I know how my opponent is going to win next turn and am desperately trying to figure out and assemble my deck's answer to it.
    I also like building consistent and transparent decks which have to build towards a win, since it means I can play to win and have fun without completely crushing my opponents and actually give them a fun experience. I enjoy understanding the threat my opponent's decks present and trying to combat them, so I want to give others the same experience.

  • @myrical4147
    @myrical4147 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    This is some great advice for deckbuilding ideology! I Always make sure to ask what everybody is playing, what their decks are trying to accomplish, and general power level when sitting down at a table. Helps avoid blowout games where you are playing something goofy and your opponent is trying to combo off asap IMO.

  • @jsoholt11
    @jsoholt11 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Your channel has made my EDH decks way better. Ive been able to filter out a lot of cards for "boring cards" and be way more consistent.

  • @etiketi
    @etiketi 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

    I recently got into Magic after 3 years of interest, and I've been enjoying going through your videos and learning some good tip for deck-building and how to play the game. I originally was more interested in Standard, but commander has caught me in its allure and I've had some fun with it. I made my first homebrew recently using Kambal, Profiteering Mayor that's very clear in what it wants to do. I call it the "Silly Straw" deck because it sticks a silly straw into your vein on turn 3 and asks you how long until you remove that straw and it becomes the Serious Straw. It's a massive token-gen and drain style deck. It's been a blast to play and see how some people are getting progressively more worried that they've been drained for 20 life before they have done anything significant with their commander and I'm sitting pretty at 54 life tanking a 12/12 hydra.

  • @wazzledog1007
    @wazzledog1007 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    I'm going to preface this with I wholeheartedly agree with the fight the table ideology, and for the most part have already been doing your suggestions in playing transparently. But you've just made me realize how much I favor decks which are opaque about when they are in pole position. A few of my decks have more moving pieces across multiple zones for most players to keep track of, some of them are just avoiding dying until it hits critical mass for ultra late game control without ever building a scary board, or suddenly go from second place incremental synergy pieces to very far in the lead.

    • @xaropevic7918
      @xaropevic7918 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Do you have suggestions for "avoid dying until you get to ultra late game control" without even building a board?

    • @wazzledog1007
      @wazzledog1007 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@xaropevic7918 Sort of. Though I realize that I consider very few nonland permanents to be boardless, and that might not be how others would classify it. But the core is draw go control with a short interaction window combo finish. (I loop turns when I hit 13 mana.) The biggest difference between 60 card and commander is that it needs mass bounce, tap down, or fog once or twice every game. How many cards slots that is entirely depends on the card velocity.
      These are my priorities for playing this sort of a deck:
      -As long as you're alive you're still in it
      -Land drops are the priority
      -Don't counter more than nessasary
      -Wait as long as possible to attempt the combo
      The deck is redundant, but I find navigating the puzzle of commander games to be unique and exciting every time.

    • @xaropevic7918
      @xaropevic7918 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@wazzledog1007 Thank you

  • @uiuiuiseraph
    @uiuiuiseraph 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Golgari is such a great battlecruiser color combination.
    I play Tevesh szat with Kodama of the East Tree. I love it! Just big beefy guys.

  • @dickencider104
    @dickencider104 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    You remind me of this guy I use to know at my old friendly game store. He gave me a rough example just like this video when I started my commander journey. Can only hope he's the judge he was aspiring to be

  • @farty555
    @farty555 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Great info. I've always kinda built transparent decks without even thinking about it. And I usually tell whoever I'm playing with that

  • @melind82
    @melind82 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Just came across your videos and I'm really impressed. I was playing for a lot of years before I started deliberately removing combos and staples like sol rings from most my decks. it really does lead to overall better games.
    One thing that might make a good video that I haven't seen people talk about is people with too many decks. I've seen people run into lots of problems: 1. they don't really understand how their own decks work or how their cards interact. 2. they don't have good opportunity to playtest and tune their decks. 3. the rest of the table can't keep track what their decks do and relative power levels

  • @lynchn09
    @lynchn09 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    I have never had somebody explain this theory/ gameplay style back to me before: Enjoy your GD sub. Well done.
    An upside that you touched upon: I play a lot of pickup games at my FLGS and that includes a lot of new players and a lot of fellow regulars. Playing like this is just, straight up, pro-social and encourages fruitful tabletalk. It's the same kind of gameplay mechanism that open politicing encourages and builds a reputation for honesty and good advice. It's fucking lovely social output sometimes.

  • @TiborLumia
    @TiborLumia 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I've recently come back to commander and magic in general after 3-4 years (I played at university with my friends but now we can only meet once a year or so, so I had an old deck for special occasions, but nothing more). I've recently found a new group which is pretty chill in my town and I've made very clear every new deck I'm going to build will make the matches fast, because a big problem I had with commander in the past is described in this videos. Lots of times when friends just whined about how they were getting hit with nothing on the table (and sometimes they became very angry/annoying), but then suddenly played an emrakul or something similar and ended up winning. This videos sums up those matches very well.

  • @neku9445
    @neku9445 5 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Great video, I'm glad I found your channel!

  • @kidscottii3957
    @kidscottii3957 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    THANK YOU FOR TALKING ABOUT THIS

  • @jesszendrex2151
    @jesszendrex2151 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    I think I generally use fight the table ideology nowadays. Years ago I tried to angle shoot and act weak to sneak in a win, but I find it much more satisfying to just announce "Unless someone stops me, I probably win next turn." I feel it's necessary to be open with how well I'm doing, or can do shortly, since I tend to play higher power level decks than the rest of the table

  • @nico-3663
    @nico-3663 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Really put into words what makes a fun multiplayer commander game! Knowing what’s going on and having a back and forth struggle as it develops

  • @ELFudgeOreos
    @ELFudgeOreos 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    I love the inclusion of the Great Aurora in your one combo example

  • @itheruler2157
    @itheruler2157 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I Play Magic since 16 years and watch yt videos for mtg the same amount of time and I really like the depth of your videos and the slow paced way you talk.

  • @laeclorentzen6111
    @laeclorentzen6111 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    My opponents after I search my library for 24 basic lands: "should we be worried?"

  • @rileypowell5354
    @rileypowell5354 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +10

    Embrace the 3 C's. Colors, Cards, Creatures. Do their deck's colors suggest you need to put pressure on them? Do they have enough cards in their hand or a good card advantage engine? How many creatures can they block with and would you benefit from trading with some of those blockers?

  • @somebodyWhoExistsIGuess
    @somebodyWhoExistsIGuess 5 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I agree that this is great advice. I also believe there is a lot of joy to be had in playing decks that feel completely different to play each game: my ideal deck to play is one that rotates between being a midrange, control, and or combo deck depending on my draws and my opponents.

    • @FasFas160
      @FasFas160 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      What deck would that be if i may ask? :)

  • @civaltea3360
    @civaltea3360 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Krenko mob boss deck is my favorite example of a visible treat, even more so if the whole deck is built around him

  • @johndoe9343
    @johndoe9343 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Thanks for the advice. I've noticed I've been getting frustrated playing jank, even while acknowledging it's jank, because I frequently enjoy ridiculous synergies that basically ask for no interaction from the opponent. But I realize now I might as well try some more down to earth strategies for a change, so that I can feel like I'm not just getting disruption after disruption to my game plans with few ways to comeback.

  • @chromaticcaos
    @chromaticcaos 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    You gotta drop the lists for the decks you talk about!

  • @TheLeftistOwl
    @TheLeftistOwl 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Henzie is such an easy deck to run it you wanna use this to your advantage. "hey, my board is empty except Henzie. I'm not doing much right now" *blitzes an Ancient Copper Dragon*

  • @bananajoe9951
    @bananajoe9951 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    So how do I play with a table that I get bullied at? I tried the advice here and they still bully me. Even when I play underpowered decks, even when I play group hug, I still get bullied. I've had conversations about this and the usual response is, "You're thinking too deeply about this" or "We don't go after you alone, we just prioritize threats as they hit the table"

  • @ERBanmech
    @ERBanmech 20 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Good to know I do very well in making my decks transparent. Almost all my decks are synergy focused with the commander and aren’t “bursty” as you called it. Maybe not battle cruiser style decks as your Glisa deck is but still cards in hand, untapped lands, and creatures in play are a great indicator of how well the deck is doing. I think it’s due to how I heavily play into synergy so if my commander’s in play, they’re the threat.
    My best example is my Darien, king of Kjeldor deck and my Karn, Legacy reforged deck.
    Darien is “I take damage, make tokens, and gain that life back” so most pieces will follow that suit, pump those tokens, or protect my stuff.
    Karn is even more straightforward, I get tons of mana and play big artifacts, the more artifacts in play the better the deck is doing.
    My Oloro, ageless acetic deck though wins at “fight the table” it is minor stax, control, and voting, designed to be a slow burn nightmare. It excels at making everyone at the table want to kill you and that is fun since you can also give back to them in a group hug style if they play your game, no silly combos, just good cards.

  • @benpeterson4673
    @benpeterson4673 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I love "fight the table" ideology. Sometimes I win and it's a great story, or I lose and it's a great story.

  • @SwedeRacerDC
    @SwedeRacerDC 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Great points! I played some very frustrating games recently with random people because they either played deceptively, or didn't know how to talk about their deck. One guy seemed to have 5-6 decks that were most likely all very optimized, because he said pick a number 1-6. The thing I said I really didn't want to see was board wipes all the time. He eliminated his Child of Alara deck, but still, the table was very mismatched. I tried not to outplay the precon player in the pod, but this new guy was clearly trying to hyper optimize every deck.

  • @yummines
    @yummines 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    While I get why being transparent with what your game plan is can make it less frustrating for the rest at the table, I feel like a lot of commanders themselves are pretty transparent on what they do.
    For example Brudiclad (which is one of my pet decks tbh) pretty clearly is about copying tokens and swinging for lethal in a turn. Izzet does not have a lot of mass token generating effects so a lot of it is down to creating clones and generic tokens like treasure or food. So when I play Decent into Avernus or Brass's Bounty it should be pretty obvious what I'm trying to do. Even if I don't have a lot of creatures on the board, by seeing all the setup it should be pretty easy to guess that unless you deal with the setup pieces you will have a threat on your hands. So I don't get too salty when I get swung into or targeted even though I don't have a ton of creatures on the board.

    • @PhoenicopterusR
      @PhoenicopterusR 5 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Just doing a thing isn't a threat though, and identifying the potential threats changes based on how much an opponent knows about existing cards.

  • @cursinsquirl
    @cursinsquirl 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    This video makes me want to build more decks around Sarevok, Deathbringer. Not only do more background decks need to exist because they're just cool but underplayed, but Sarevok is usually not trying to trick you about what's happening. It works as a pseudo-Voltron deck where buffing your commander is a big deal, but also incentivizes a little mini-game that different decks play differently. My first Sarevok deck was with Clan Crafter, so i could sacrifice artifacts for card draw and commander buffs while using blue spells to protect my commander.

  • @PaperySloth
    @PaperySloth 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Dude legit added DLC to his video lmao

  • @quickaswink
    @quickaswink 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Im gonna need that Glissa decklist. My decks have always been kind of gimmicky and so have the decks in my playgroup. I'd love to see a transparent decklist and learn from it!

    • @salubrioussnail
      @salubrioussnail  6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      archidekt.com/decks/5035210/glissacruiser

  • @qumphie
    @qumphie 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I'm convinced this channel purely exists for him to talk about his Glissa deck

  • @AnArmyOfFish
    @AnArmyOfFish 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I totally agree with you about building and playing with transparency, playing towards your goal every turn isn't something suspicious to your opponents, and while they take it seriously you aren't likely to make anyone angry if you aren't an immediate threat
    I have a very pertinent funny story of an old commander buddy
    We had a dedicated group at that point and would regularly have 4 or 5 player games of commander, and this guy wanted in, but he had no idea how.
    So, my friend looked through his cards, and helped him built himself a deck. Dragonlord Ojutai. We used to call it the "completely nonthreatening rise of ojutai", it would take games outta nowhere just by playing fair magic - stick ojutai, save up counterspells, strap him with enchantments, profit?
    But it wasn't flashy enough for him, so he saves up and buys a budget infinite combo commander list - Mikaeus, the Unhallowed. Just Mikaeus and combo pieces - nothing else. Totally arbitrary and abstruse - and every time his commander hit the table, he would be surprised when we'd group up to keep him in check. The conversation in the game is just too scary, like "Oh, so Mikaeus is out so if we let this turn go around and he has *X* and *Y* or on a rare chance just *Z* alone he could kill all of us like *THAT* "
    Instead of refining his ojutai deck he stubbornly played the mikaeus deck every time, to the point where he started to just play Destiny when he got knocked out first....

  • @randymotter51
    @randymotter51 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    I experience this between my Animar and Hinata decks where despite Animar being objectively an stronger deck he tends to get left alone more because when he isn't doing well they are more certain of it, whereas Hinata keeps all of her war crimes in your hand. They never know when that Comet Storm is coming, but watching Animar's counters go up is a more visible and easier to understand threat. One is a straightforward beater and the other is a spooky magical goat.

  • @reaxetion6413
    @reaxetion6413 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

    This is a good concept. My trouble is with my Kadena Morph Combo deck. I do my best to be transparent without just revealing my hand and saying what my face down cards do, but naturally, being a resilient deck that has lots of interaction and hidden information, people aren’t the hugest fan of the deck. I am transparent with my combo pieces and how strong my synergy cards are, but people still tend to underestimate her until they get locked out of the game.

  • @andrelee7081
    @andrelee7081 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    My play style is often the complete opposite: "Come at me bro" with a full grip and open mana. Ironically, this actually works better than downplaying my board state since most players don't want the smoke.

  • @johnreese5739
    @johnreese5739 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +14

    Definitely no video uploaded before this one, and this definitely wouldn't have been my comment on that video
    Most of my decks fall under the very fair and straightforward category, with a sort of escalating and obvious threat on the board. I generally turn into the main villain of the table, which is good because my deck is also probably the best constructed in terms of power and ability to win the game. Being the villain is actually quite the fun experience, since, even if you don't win, you still significantly impact the game every time. I do have a deck I'm working on for Slimefoot, the Stowaway that sort of breaks my rule but not really. It's a sort of hyper land-ramp deck using untapping abilities and auras that let lands tap for extra mana to just make a shit load of saproling tokens. Basically I want to reach 160 mana sunk into the ability as fast as possible, which will generally not be that fast. I think it's a lot more fun to play a deck like that.

  • @haidynwendlandt2479
    @haidynwendlandt2479 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I’m a volunteer at a local high school and one of the kids there has a “mono-Green Morophon deck” where the deck only has basic forests for lands….and it’s actually Sliver combo

  • @vincentcircharo8259
    @vincentcircharo8259 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    smol bean syndrome is my pet peeve, its like people forget that this is a game where you summon monsters to bonk eachother, im gonna bonk you, dont take it personally, this is just a bonking game

    • @KabobHope
      @KabobHope 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      It's just a bonk away. Just a bonk away. Bonk away. Bonk away. Yay-a-a-a.

  • @martyrer8860
    @martyrer8860 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Your vids are amazing insight into what makes for fun & engaging gameplay.
    Would you consider making deck analyses/fixings applying your recommendations.
    I have a Marchesa the Black Rose deck around stealing+keeping and cheating into play stuff but it feels either oppressive or too vulnerable in stronger pods.

  • @paradoxicalwaffle9874
    @paradoxicalwaffle9874 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I like this, it's just talking about deck construction and playsyles in a generally intelligent way. I feel like I'm usually the bad gal at my EDH table because my decks are consistent, and even though I tell people straight up what I'm doing they don't always have the game pieces to stop me. I like building my decks this way, where they're focused and clear, and I think this is good advice as to how my friends can understand what I'm doing

  • @schizosamurai8840
    @schizosamurai8840 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Bold of you to assume my rishkars expertise on turn 7 wont always draw 4 lands, 2 ramps and a mana rock, no matter the deck

  • @MagnustheMage
    @MagnustheMage 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    My usual response to someone with good attacks/potential to kill me is just "I will not beg for mercy." It rarely works but I like to think it's a little more dignified.

  • @viviblue7277
    @viviblue7277 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    My transparent decks perform so much better than they have any right to. My Balan deck where I just slap down another piece of equipment each turn and basically say “just you wait until I get to 6 mana” basically gets ignored until turn 6 because everyone knows the deck does basically nothing until it gets to 6 mana.
    My Kellan, removal deck tends to generate remarkably little hate for removing things (although it definitely still generates some) because everyone knows I’m running 40 pieces of targeted removal and half a dozen board wipes.
    Yet my Magar of the Magic strings deck with its confusing weak janky reanimator gameplan usually gets rushed down because no one knows that I was a whole turns away from actually doing anything.

  • @Derpingmuffin
    @Derpingmuffin 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    this is a man who deserves more subs! Too bad I can only give him one :/

  • @cat-astrophe8697
    @cat-astrophe8697 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I am recently playing this Gyruda deck with a lot of Clones to copy Gyruda - Gyruda usually doesnt change much about the board state, usually just puts a bunch of cards in my graveyard and I end up with some clone card that copied Gyruda... But people are always frightened of it! They just see this Creature's ETB going off again and again and they do not know what is coming - so they are scared even though it's extremely likely to just do nothing. I might try your recommendations of explaining what the card is doing in my deck in the future to see if that helps :P

  • @iambensummers
    @iambensummers 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    This is a good description of my play style (SBS). But instead of politicking to try to dissuade attacks, I just board wipe. One of my most threatening decks is my O-Kagachi Dragons deck. I'll make consistent land drops, ramp, then board wipe once everyone has deployed most of their cards in hand. I could try to tell everyone that "I'm not doing anything," but I find it more fun to say "Yeah, fair, I'll take 20" and then exile all their creatures so I don't take any more.
    I think the important part is not being sneaky. If you're really honest about what you might do, and how close you are to it, people will likely forget about how you swung for 90 last game. Playing politics is fun, and so is popping off, but you can play SBS-style and still be fair and casual if you help others out with their threat assessment.

  • @wert1234576
    @wert1234576 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Yeah, i have found that you need to play with people who actually politics instead of just hassling one player every game

  • @rupsrubs3459
    @rupsrubs3459 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Me watching a video about mtg theories
    Also me knowing damm well Im going to be screaming ''dont kill me I can do something funny next turn'' when im at 1 hitpoint

  • @ouch127
    @ouch127 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    One of my decks is very inconsistent, and crumbles at the slightest removal spell. However it can easily shart out 80 something damage when things work out. When I am durdling and drawing, I always encourage players to attack me, reminding them that if I get too much breathing room they can die in a turn. I am not a coward, I knew when I built my deck it was inconsistent, I understand that when you gamble you can't always when.

  • @ethanweld4205
    @ethanweld4205 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I did take it as deck building advice, thank you

  • @GothMoth__
    @GothMoth__ 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I have a Glunch deck without a win condition that focuses on helping everyone at the table but me. Naturally I’m the first to die.

  • @21526
    @21526 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Great video! It really hits on a point that I have felt for a long time. EDH is a more social format but that that social aspect has its limits. Its really frustrating playing against someone who protests at every piece of interaction or attack, who thinks they can politic their way out of any situation. there should be an understood baseline that EDH is a game and the objective of the game is to win, so don't get upset when people try to win. That doesnt mean deliberately stomping on noobs but being open and honest goes a long way to create a fun game space.

  • @iwaswithyourmum
    @iwaswithyourmum 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

    This feels like a hugbox, not for me personally.

  • @walkermcmullin8665
    @walkermcmullin8665 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I have a deck that USED to be just a g/b deck with the joke being it only has ONE swamp to work with and somehow win, but it was designed for 100-card singleton 1v1, not EDH, so I took the Sapling of Colfenor I had in it and made it my commander, and all of a sudden people were getting upset that they couldn’t tell what my deck’s end goal was as they were losing to it, just because it was meant to have many wincons that could show up at any time. Needless to say, it made for an interesting table any time I brought it out.

  • @user-ry3nv1we9n
    @user-ry3nv1we9n 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I had a Nekusar deck that worked like this. I olayed so many enchantments and creatures stack on top of what Nekusar does tyat I didn't need wheels. I openly used cards that even traded card draw for my benefit. It leveraged Nekusar's own reputation as a card to just BE THE VILLAIN. I also ran a surprising amount of lifegain to compensate the aggro I knew it would deal with. Man I miss my Nekusat deck....

  • @thedrawingquill2059
    @thedrawingquill2059 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    my main deck is a blue artifact deck. I use a lot of counters and fodder to survive the early rounds, before doing massive bursts of damage. I have tezzeret's gatebreaker as well, and no one I play with has any board wipes and the few artifact destruction spells are usually used to try and destroy my mana ramp or my staff of the mind magus so they can try and kill me before I am in a position to sacrifice tezzeret's gatebreaker. my favorite way to play is to wat too attack until I have enough on my board to take people out in one swing. I'm sure I could end games faster if I didn't do this, but it results in this small bean effect most of the time where everyone is focused on each other because the most I'm doing to harm anyone is bouncing their creature back if they target me while everyone else is slapping them down. At a certain point though, my deck snowballs and by the time people realize that I have quietly filled my battlefield to the brim and am very obviously about to play my biggest wincon, it's pretty much too late. I'm never deceptive about it either, everyone knows how my deck works and it's hard to ignore the guy who has chewed through half of his deck in 6 turns, but because I don't attack I'm almost always the smallest threat until it's too late.

  • @user-xj7bv5lk4u
    @user-xj7bv5lk4u 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    good video keep it up man

  • @HinduGangsta
    @HinduGangsta 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    this channel is like mtg noah but with actual advice

  • @machinronii
    @machinronii 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I have a friend who is "I will sit here and see how you kill each other, but if you attack me prepare to feel my wrath"

  • @AshZesty
    @AshZesty 4 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Great video as always!
    I’m really bad at building commander decks, and it takes me a long time to refine a list of 300 cards I want down to the 100 cards that work well together; so I especially struggle with picking too many cards for something that I want to happen and could lead to inconsistent gameplay.
    I think looking at your Glissa deck list would really help me get better at deck building, plus it seems like a fun play experience for my taste.
    Would you mind sharing your deck list?

  • @heroofsparta
    @heroofsparta 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I run a Kyler, Sigardian emissary deck with my local pod, i think you hit the nail with the idea of transparent magic, when folks ask me "what does your deck do ?" I hand kyler to them and say "here read it, I think you can connect the dots of what 60% of this deck is about", is it running a lot of annoying humans ? dranith magistred, thalia's, etc ? yes, does the deck has any combos ? no, synergy ? yes, but like that sponge bob episode, kill kyler and the fake muscle of the humans deflate quite a lot.

  • @tikano6844
    @tikano6844 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I feel like there can be such a thing as being too transparent with your game plan. In my mind if people know your strategy and plan to remove it early before it becomes a big threat to them. Then you’re stuck to the big explosive power except you don’t have all that power as it was spent on the earlier turns and got removed. This is probably me over thinking it but it could be intresting

  • @MayoIsMyInstrument
    @MayoIsMyInstrument 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I love being considered the archenemy, and playing through vicious hate pieces. It makes me proud of my deck.

  • @TheSandurz20
    @TheSandurz20 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Have you considered though, that I'm just a little guy?

  • @erisdiscordia5429
    @erisdiscordia5429 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

    "Aww come on, I'm not doing well this game!"
    "Well... let me help you on to your next game.."

  • @hobojoe285
    @hobojoe285 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I play a very burst and flash mono blue commander with azami. I rarely get upset when someone focuses me down even if there is bigger threats that will end the game. Always stating to my opponents "Well I can always pop off or stop you with one of my many counterspells, so I am always a valid target."

  • @somejerk5662
    @somejerk5662 5 หลายเดือนก่อน

    TFW you can't ever smol bean because your group knows you have a crippling addiction to infinite combos

  • @Tha3l
    @Tha3l 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Loving your insights. Do you have any thoughts on how to build a transparent Spellslinger? It's one of my favourite archetypes to play, but it feels impossible to build one that doesn't end up storming off when it performs. I just wanna draw cards and have some fun triggers..

    • @leviangel97
      @leviangel97 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      I guess... focus on cantrips without rituals? You'll get triggers, but you can't appropriately storm off

  • @kezthepieman13
    @kezthepieman13 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I always respond with "I wasn't gonna attack you, but now that you complained I will."

  • @Tracker947
    @Tracker947 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    In my playgroup, the weakest link usually gets targeted first

  • @Grimmlocked
    @Grimmlocked 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

    that glissa deck si the epitome of "say it with your chest"