Harbinger knocked over 2 seconds off the course record. So all who doubt the horses performance was real, are kidding themselves. Harbinger was a monster!
@Samlangford As good a performance as it undoubtedly was, and the clock confirmed that, there's a strong suspicion that it was some kind of fluke, just like when Roberto beat Brigadier Gerard, he had never done anything like it before, plus the fact that Workforce ran way below his best, probably getting into a early skirmish with the runner up Cape Blanco cutting each other's throats.
Saw Harbinger at Chester as a 3 year old, thought he was a nailed on Derby winner but injury stopped him that year. Was at Ascot and couldn't believe could get 5/1...needless to say had a very good day afterwards.
Bar Frankel's Queen Anne you'll never see a group1 won easier. He gave noticeably larger 3 year old Derby winners (who went on to win more group1s) 12lb! This is how top races should be run-fast. Now a top stallion at a luxury farm. Well done to all connections and the superb surgery that saved him. I had the pleasure of meeting him recuperating (with the groom) a real gentleman of a horse. Hope to see his progeny over here soon-love Bing.
to win a group 1 by 10 lengths in a course record is special. OR at 140 is fair enough. On this day, one of the best performances I've seen since Dancing Brave.
An amazing performance. Hard to think of an easier, smoother victory in a such a tough race. As a 4yr old this fella was the business. I don't think anyone in HQ would say this lad would have beat the peerless Frankel over 10f or even 12f. He did though thrash 2 strapping Derby winners whilst giving them 12lb. Sir Michael Stoutes best horse incl Shergar and Singspiel.
I believe that no horse that ever lived would have beaten Harbinger this day beat a triple ARC 2nd by 15. beat a derby and Arc winner by 17. breaking the course record.
Harbinger’s sons are still fighting in Japan. There were some grade 1 race winner,but none of them became sire. Now the most hopeful successor is,his name is Phantom thief. The winner of Kyodotsusin-hai(g3) which is the step race of Japanese classic series. And got third in Satsuki-syo(1st crown),in spite of falling horseshoes during race. Maybe he win the Japanese Derby and become sire. His brood is very interesting,deep crossing. I hope his win.
The best performance over one and a half miles on turf in the history of thoroughbred racing, Mind you, Persimmon's win over St Frusquin in the 1896 Derby was pretty good.
Nothing better than a fabulous horse, cruising into the lead and then just galloping away and winning by a street. The good thing was that Workforce went on to win Arc so the form held up.
Great to watch again. Clear to see that Workforce didn't run to it's best form not that I think it would have changed the outcome. Workforce is a good few pounds better than cape blanco though.
"Harbinger wins the king george!" I love the way he says this, like a song, i regually hear that quote in my head. Great stuff, Harbinger V Frankel? Frankel for me
Don't talk nonsense, Frankel beat nothing in average times that's why he looked spectacular, the likes of Harbinger, Montjeu, Sea The Stars are the true greats of the modern era.
i remember the day i watched it this race, very stylish win shame they had to retire harbinger i was hoping to see more and now they have retired frankel another great horse i loved to watch
Like most comments here thats one of the very best middle distance performances I have ever seen vs quality opposition, I was on Workforce that day and that monster flew by him like he was jet propelled, I was completely gobsmacked watching it and it was a massive disappointment he couldn’t race on. Just WOW a run from the gods.
I have just seen this and remembered we took about 100-1 for him to win The Derby just after Xmas.He apparently was more than a little bit special even then,shame he was a tad fragile!!
He made very, very good horses look like absolute rubbish. Cape Blanco annihilated Rip Van Winkle and Twice Over at Leopardstown and wiped the floor with the best in America in 2011. Workforce won the Arc and probably should have won the King George in the following year. This was the best mile and a half performance on turf I have ever seen (and I have been around for a while)
I stand by view that on that day, on that course, over that distance, no horse ever foaled would have beaten Harbinger. Secretariat would have given him a race, but no more than that.
+tigerboy1966 agree I know it's all opinions. We went and I remember checking the big screen to see it was the same race! An athlete ready and at the peak of his powers. Allowed time to mature.
We will never truly know the quality of Harbinger as he was prematurely retired. This race was fantastic though, great to see such a run. He set the course record this day. Nothing better than a wonderful thoroughbred galloping for fun and stretching his field. Also good he was owned by Highclere and not the mob from Eire or the super rich prince.
I think this horse could of been the greatest. Certainly a breath taking performance. Look at Oliver s face. I can't imagine the devastation in all close to the horse.
Agreed. I also don't see why after just one race, he was giving the same rating on timeform as STS. They are both superb horses, but if we gage at the results of the two.. it doesn't really add up.
@MrNativeDancer Cape Blanco was the benchmark that the handicapper used alloting 119.The handicapper(and this is the bone of contention)considered the 11 length winning margin worth 16lbs.However Timeform thought it was worth 23lb's which to me is very unrealistic and slightly offensive to say on ONE performance he's superior to STS,Dancing Brave and Mill Reef.Time will tell but I seriously doubt he will win in such a manner again away from Ascot,when the other horses did it everywhere.
@GBeret83 I'm not nit-picking but he wasn't "Toting 12 lbs. more than Cape Blanco or Workforce in the race..." This is a Standard Weight-for-Age race. It effectively brings horses of different ages, at each month of the year, to an "equivalent weight" over each distance - it's just as if they were really carrying exactly the same weight, although they may be chronologically different ages. In SWFA, it's misleading to say one horse carried more than another.
It was a very good performance, but my only criticism is that Workforce clearly didn't perform any were near his best, it's a shame we never saw Harbinger after this very good performance though.
This was a superb performance but in my opinion a falsely run race because of a small field: Worforce needs a hot pace to settle in behind and he was tracking the leader the whole way round- he had nothing left at the end! Cape Blanco will gallop from start to finish so it suited him no problem. Harbinger was one of two horses in the race who have turn of foot (along with Youmzain) and he just quickened clear. We needed to see him in the Arc to truly judge him.
Also after this race Cape Blanco (who didn't stay) was rated 115, He was later put upto 119. Winning by 11L is rated 16lbs (1L = 1.5lbs over 12 furlongs) So even if you decide to rate Harbinger on the 119 rating that gives him a rating of 135, Remember against a horse that doesn't stay. There is no doubt it's a good performance but quite where they get his rating (140) from i've no idea.
@SoulSurvivor79 i agree.Who cares about other years and horses and all that jazz,this was 2010,it doesnt matter what it beat,it WAS the best horse in 2010 and would of won the ARC.
I've been following the horses for 30 years and that's the best performance I've seen. The official rating was too low. It would only make sense if you assume that Cape Blanco, Youmzain and Workforce ALL ran 10lb below their best.
Also he was owned by Highclere TB Racing - not the Arab or Irish Mafia. It makes a change for a syndicate of owners to win a race of this statue. Yes, they are by ordinary people's standards all rich and still contributing a lot of money but it is far more affordable than the crazy amounts invested out by billionaires Godolphin or Ballydoyle. As for not winning the Arc, point taken about the ground but it is an academic argument - he did not run. So a hypothesis built on his love of fast ground at Ascot, cannot be proven. It's true that Longchamp in October can be the graveyard of many good horses, best example was Nijinsky, but he was not himself that day and had gone off the boil. Also Workforce went on to win the Arc.
@MrNativeDancer P.S there is an interesting point regards King George winners failing in the Arc.Nijinsky,Troy,Nashwan,Generous,Daylami,Montjeu,Doyen,Duke Of Marmalade and Conduit are the ones I can think of off the top of my head and there's probably more.Only Dancing Brave,Dylan Thomas and Lammtarra have gone on to win in recent memory.Harbinger has it to do BUT I honestly hope he does.
doesnt matter if it was a truly run race. any horse that can win a group 1 by 11l and beat the best around aswell is a very good horse. Maybe if there was a big field and strong pace then it could have been closer but this was one hell of a performance and one hell of a horse
They have removed the race from You Tube and also on BBC rerun edited the film. People ought to be made to see what can happen to a horse, don't sanitize it.Harbinger was an amazing racehorse and it was wonderful to see such a win. Workforce clearly does not like Ascot at all. He threw away the race yesterday. As Willie Carson said if he had run straight he would have won. As for Rewilding -terrible bad luck but shit happens every day, things that you cannot legislate or anticipate.
So sad he never ran in the Arc. He never ran again. So we will never really know just how good he was. But let's enjoy that wonderful victory. A great sight to see such a horse galloping away from his field.
Rosalind Mercer , Absolutely agreed this was a big time special performance by Harbinger, but in my opinion, even if he had stayed healthy he would've never won that Arc De Triomphe in 2010 that Workforce won on ground rated very soft to being almost yielding that day at Longchamp. The key to Harbinger was his having good/good to firm ground like he had in the King George, and he was also without question an Ascot course specialist. Look at the replay of his win in the G2 Hardwicke Stakes right before he won the King George and it was nearly like watching a carbon copy replay of this race. This race just had much better horses in the field than the Hardwicke Stakes did. I think Harbinger was very talented on the kind of ground he liked racing over, but I've always said I don't believe he would've ever beaten Cape Blanco, Workforce, Youmzain, & Daryakana in the manner he did in the King George at Ascot on any other racetrack, IMO.
Even though Ryan Moore chose the mount on Workforce over Harbinger in this race, he had some idea about how dangerous Harbinger would be to the field. Moore had ridden Harbinger a month earlier in the G2 Hardwicke Stakes during the royal meeting, and if you compare the replays of both races it really is almost like watching a carbon copy of each other the way Harbinger blasted the Hardwicke field in just about the same manor. That being said, I'm still in the camp that believes Harbinger was an Ascot course specialist and likely wouldn't have reproduced another G1 effort like this away from Ascot. Had he gotten to race on, I personally don't believe he would've been right there battling out the Arc finish with Workforce & Nakayama Festa at Longchamp, IMO.
a lot of comments on here disregarding this performance, all that can be said was workforce won a derby and an arc, we were robbed not seeing this lad take his chance in the arc... which you must imagine he would of won fairly comfortably and the arguements about his rating would not be an issue.. just enjoy the fact it was a great performance..course record too
Difficult to put any other G1 performance above it. Just breath-taking. Such a shame we couldn't see more. A son of Dansili, by Danehill. Can't mistake mane and chocolate coat Danehill combo.
@somersetfan1 The 12lbs is weight for age, Horses are not fully matured until they reach the age of 4, So in championship races a 4yo carries more weight than a 3yo, Later in the year as a 3yo matures the weight difference gets reduced, (7lbs by the Arc') Harbinger (4yo) didn't do anything what every other 4yo has to do. Also lets not forget when harbinger was a 3yo exactly 12 months earlier he was only rated 96. Thats how much a horse can mature between 3-4.
Here's another race, what looked good and fast finishing, wasn't backed up by the clock. Harbinger ran the last 3f in around 37secs That's an average speed of around 36mph. Also he didn't knock off over 2secs of the previous TR. It was just 0.83secs. Previous was Petoski 2.27.61. Harbinger 2.26.78. BTW Frankel ran the last 3f Judd cruising on the bridle, easing up 60yds from post in 34.6secs = Average speed of 39.1mph
Protaget1: I was watching the race before reading your comment and thinking this Is a clear case where they clearly went much to fast to early, and those near the front paid the price, taking nothing away from Harbinger though, who won like a very good horse.
No way is this a legit race. Workforce was still neck and neck with the pacemaker 1 out + Cape Blanco was off the bridle 3 out and he's not been passed by anything.
Harbinger has just received a rating through the BHA of 135 for this performance using Cape Blanco(119)as the benchmark.This performance is out of the complete top drawer BUT is he within 1lb of STS?On this performance I would say probably.As I said though 'on this performance'.Let's see the variables of the future.Different track(STS ran at 7 seven different courses).Distance(STS 1m,1m 2f,1m4f).Going(STS won on soft as a 2yo,good and good to firm)Left handed,right handed,uphill downhill....
What on earth was I on about.W Hern trained Troy,meant E.Dunlop and his mare Ouija Board.He was quite critical of the longchamp hierarchy after she was 3rd in '04.
i saw him run in a maiden think he got beat that day but i never seen a horse go so well and get beat , then he went to chester and slaughtered the field
@bigttim1 The other horses you mention showed their ability on numerous occasions and Harbinger was a one hit wonder. BUT, sometimes you have to believe the evidence of your own eyes and the clock. On this day Harbinger would have given all of them a race and maybe a beating, but maybe only on this day. Though personally I like to think The Brave would have taken care of him when they were both at their best.
....potentially Harbinger there doesn't appear to be a STS around.He's now been put away till the race by Channon and 25/1 e/w is a cracking bet.All the same hope whatever you fancy runs to your expectations.
I think Harbinger was a fast ground horse and Workforce's arc was soft ground, but you can see why he was sold to Japan where most of their races are on fast ground
@grincher2006 Couldnt agree more.Unbelievable that people on here assume that every horse in the race ran below par.Erm i dont think so. Lets just revel in this brilliant horse.And one of the TRUE great performances of Thoroughbred horse racing.
Harbinger c.3a.(Dansili-Penang Pearl),demuestra solo con esta carrera ser un autentico "crack". Gana en verdadero "canter",sin que tenga Olivier Peslier,mas que acompañar su asombroso galope. Lastima que se lesionase poco despues. Creo que hubiera ganado L´Arc,en un autentico paseo. Gana por 11 cuerpos a Cape Blanco,Youmzain,Darkayana y ...Workforce,entra a ¡17cuerpos!. Es una demostracion increible de clase y superioridad y desde luego pocas veces se ha visto nada igual.
If Sea the stars hadn't have been retired and had run in this race, it would have been interesting to see what would have happened here. I personally think Sea The Stars still would have won.
I don't think so. Not on that day. Obviously STS would have beaten him as 3 year olds, but I think STS was better over 10f. Harbinger seemed to be a fast ground 12f monster. Enable at 3, Harbinger would've had to given her a stone. Still think he would've done it on that day. Novellist is the one I can't figure out. He beat Harbinger's time. I'd like to see the clock-watchers explain that one. Maybe there was a tailwind?!? Edit to add - betting.betfair.com/horse-racing/timeform-debate/simon-rowlands/sectional-debrief-betfair-king-george-ascot-280713-43.html
@MrNativeDancer Agreed.He did have a high knee action and the ground must have been very quich to run a time like that.Still a very sad loss to racing but as ever going to stud,pass that ability on
His performance on the day was unbelievable....they can'y all have ran wel below form. Timeform has bottled it. After an initial rating of 143 (before Cape Blancos Irish Chanpion win and Workforce's Arc win) he wa reassessed at 140. By the way, Dancing Brave and Sea The Stars were more versatile but in the day........?????
Very very impressive he beat the Derby winner although the derby wasn't the strongest Workforce did break the course record he also beat the Irish derby winner (Cape Blanco) and Youmzain who has been 2nd in the arc 3 years running but i wont take evens on harbinger for the Arc
@bigttim1 what do you mean not a vintage crop? stuffed workforce the arc winner, cape blanco countless places in major races, youmzain same story. These weren't bad horses
....Regards the Derby and the form,it is all about performance.For arguments sake At First Sight is a G2,G3 animal.Isn't it still an amazing effort to give such a horse a 10-12 length start with 3.5 furlongs to go and beat him by 8? At Ascot he only beat Confront(the pacemaker) by 2L.Dear God,Stoute wouldn't have even ran him if he thought that was his capabilities.Simple fact is that he knows a lot more than us and so does R.Moore in choosing him over Harbinger.I sincerely hope we see him....
Superb performance, but I'm rather suspicious about the form on show. There were bad vibes about Workforce that day, so can't believe he ran his race, Youmzain was a perennial loser (albeit a very good one, you wouldnt want to hang your hat on him performing to his ability either), and Cape Blanco was no superstar. Not saying Harbinger wasn't a great horse, but just doubt he was as good as he looked here. I wondered whether the owners retired the horse because its stud value could only go down after this day.
@MrNativeDancer It is weird that the distance between the two are similar.Herewegoagain thinks WF did give his running which is up to him.People who don't though are M.Stoute,R.Moore and the BHB handicapper(his name eludes me).WF,at Ascot,LOOKED really laboured and uptight,unable to settle and generally all over the place.To me that's not the horse who won the Derby eventhough I don't think he'd have beaten Harbinger anyway.All the same I don't think Harbinger would have beaten WF at Epsom...
Es emocionante ver esta carrera en la que Herbinger bate por mas de 10 cuerpos y me atreveria a decir que sin ser exigido.¡Tanta es la superioridad! a caballos como Workforce y Cape Blanco),"Derby winers".Sin contar a Youmzain. Luego se lesiono tontamente en un entrenamiento y nunca se sabra su verdadero techo. Solo por esto.¡¡¡Mejor caballo del mundo de 2.010.!!! Compararlo con Ribot,Brigadier Gerard,Mill Reef,o cualquier otro no tiene sentido. Por solo esta carrera ya esta en la historia.
...again even if that means putting him away for the season and coming back as a 4yo,something Stoute excels with.His physique alone is that of a horse who needs time,hence only running once as a 2yo.Abdullah is firstly a racing fan and a breeder second,so I think we will see him again.Regards.
@MrNativeDancer Greetings.I have a little gut feeling that Harbinger won't win the Arc also.Stoute has an appaling record in the race considering the amount of top middle distance horses he's trained.No winners when he's had Sharastani,Shadari,Kris Kin,Pilsudski(ran a good race),Opera House,Singspiel,Daliapour(I think),North Light,Conduit and one other I think in Pure Grain.There's probably more.Not a good record.At this moment in time it is extremely difficult to favour anything when I'd....
.....brilliant display and I hope he does do it again in the near future but isn't it reasonable to assume(Stoute and Moore are certain)that Workforce didn't run his race?Harbinger in my opinion has a little to do yet to be in STS vicinity and NO horse has,or will ever,be accurately judged on 1 impressive win.All the same he seems to be getting better with every 4yo race and why can't that continue.Be watching with real eagerness his subsequent races.
@4743stephenf the only rubbish here is your comment. He ran the fastest EVER King George and won by panels! What he beat is completely irrelevant. It's like saying Secretariat "didn't beat much" in the Belmont.
Giving them all weight was one of the reasons this was so impressive. One of the most progressive horses from 3 to 4 I have ever seen. Just such a shame we never had him have chance to confirm all of the form. Workforce was not himself though, he did not gallop on. Nontheless, Harbingers cruising speed was amazing.
Shame sea the stars didnt run in this. They say sea the stars was never pushed for everything. He would of had to run one of the best races in history to beat harbinger in this. Could he of done it?
One of the best performances ever. Phenomenal.
No horse would of Beat him that day none
A few Greats would, but still a spectacular Performance Tho
@@kevinmunday6263 Name one!
これを見るとビンジャーのサイアーラインを残したい。ブラピもペルシアンナイトも乗馬になってしまったから、ニシノデイジー、アライバル、リューベック辺りに頑張ってもらいたい。
This performance by Harbinger is among the top 20 ever seen on Turf.
Another King George classic. Remember this one, it will take your breath away.
Shame we didn't get to see him again. Absolutely amazing performance, true class.
Harbinger knocked over 2 seconds off the course record. So all who doubt the horses performance was real, are kidding themselves. Harbinger was a monster!
the horses Racing is so very good
@Samlangford
As good a performance as it undoubtedly was, and the clock confirmed that, there's a strong suspicion that it was some kind of fluke, just like when Roberto beat Brigadier Gerard, he had never done anything like it before, plus the fact that Workforce ran way below his best, probably getting into a early skirmish with the runner up Cape Blanco cutting each other's throats.
This is the best performance i have ever seen
Quite a shame that we never got the chance to see Harbinger back up this great performance.
love the shot when he goes 4 lengths in front...old school racing classic filming shot that was....what a horse
Saw Harbinger at Chester as a 3 year old, thought he was a nailed on Derby winner but injury stopped him that year.
Was at Ascot and couldn't believe could get 5/1...needless to say had a very good day afterwards.
One of the most stunning King George performances I have ever seen I was privaliged to be there and back him and so sad he never raced again
Lucky you!
Bar Frankel's Queen Anne you'll never see a group1 won easier. He gave noticeably larger 3 year old Derby winners (who went on to win more group1s) 12lb! This is how top races should be run-fast. Now a top stallion at a luxury farm. Well done to all connections and the superb surgery that saved him. I had the pleasure of meeting him recuperating (with the groom) a real gentleman of a horse. Hope to see his progeny over here soon-love Bing.
+Dave Wood So good to hear that. Good horses are precious .
Frankel beat nothing though
to win a group 1 by 10 lengths in a course record is special. OR at 140 is fair enough. On this day, one of the best performances I've seen since Dancing Brave.
An amazing performance. Hard to think of an easier, smoother victory in a such a tough race. As a 4yr old this fella was the business. I don't think anyone in HQ would say this lad would have beat the peerless Frankel over 10f or even 12f. He did though thrash 2 strapping Derby winners whilst giving them 12lb. Sir Michael Stoutes best horse incl Shergar and Singspiel.
He would of beat frankel that day for sure
I believe that no horse that ever lived would have beaten Harbinger this day beat a triple ARC 2nd by 15. beat a derby and Arc winner by 17. breaking the course record.
Harbinger’s sons are still fighting in Japan. There were some grade 1 race winner,but none of them became sire. Now the most hopeful successor is,his name is Phantom thief. The winner of Kyodotsusin-hai(g3) which is the step race of Japanese classic series. And got third in Satsuki-syo(1st crown),in spite of falling horseshoes during race. Maybe he win the Japanese Derby and become sire. His brood is very interesting,deep crossing. I hope his win.
The best performance over one and a half miles on turf in the history of thoroughbred racing, Mind you, Persimmon's win over St Frusquin in the 1896 Derby was pretty good.
Nothing better than a fabulous horse, cruising into the lead and then just galloping away and winning by a street. The good thing was that Workforce went on to win Arc so the form held up.
Great to watch again. Clear to see that Workforce didn't run to it's best form not that I think it would have changed the outcome. Workforce is a good few pounds better than cape blanco though.
"Harbinger wins the king george!" I love the way he says this, like a song, i regually hear that quote in my head. Great stuff, Harbinger V Frankel? Frankel for me
Don't talk nonsense, Frankel beat nothing in average times that's why he looked spectacular, the likes of Harbinger, Montjeu, Sea The Stars are the true greats of the modern era.
i remember the day i watched it this race, very stylish win shame they had to retire harbinger i was hoping to see more and now they have retired frankel another great horse i loved to watch
Like most comments here thats one of the very best middle distance performances I have ever seen vs quality opposition, I was on Workforce that day and that monster flew by him like he was jet propelled, I was completely gobsmacked watching it and it was a massive disappointment he couldn’t race on. Just WOW a run from the gods.
I have just seen this and remembered we took about 100-1 for him to win The Derby just after Xmas.He apparently was more than a little bit special even then,shame he was a tad fragile!!
Sadly he never lined up in the Arc. Awesome performance.
Just like Teenoso, never seen again after his finest performance.
stunning! my heart was beating so hard when he skipped to the lead - what a horse!
He made very, very good horses look like absolute rubbish. Cape Blanco annihilated Rip Van Winkle and Twice Over at Leopardstown and wiped the floor with the best in America in 2011. Workforce won the Arc and probably should have won the King George in the following year. This was the best mile and a half performance on turf I have ever seen (and I have been around for a while)
I stand by view that on that day, on that course, over that distance, no horse ever foaled would have beaten Harbinger. Secretariat would have given him a race, but no more than that.
+tigerboy1966 agree I know it's all opinions. We went and I remember checking the big screen to see it was the same race! An athlete ready and at the peak of his powers. Allowed time to mature.
We will never truly know the quality of Harbinger as he was prematurely retired. This race was fantastic though, great to see such a run. He set the course record this day. Nothing better than a wonderful thoroughbred galloping for fun and stretching his field. Also good he was owned by Highclere and not the mob from Eire or the super rich prince.
I think this horse could of been the greatest. Certainly a breath taking performance. Look at Oliver s face. I can't imagine the devastation in all close to the horse.
this was awesome!!!....
Agreed. I also don't see why after just one race, he was giving the same rating on timeform as STS. They are both superb horses, but if we gage at the results of the two.. it doesn't really add up.
Jim McGrath had definitely been on the sauce here, called the wrong horse multiple times!
Poetry in motion watching Harbinger in this race.
Only hope he will race again after his injury
@MrNativeDancer Cape Blanco was the benchmark that the handicapper used alloting 119.The handicapper(and this is the bone of contention)considered the 11 length winning margin worth 16lbs.However Timeform thought it was worth 23lb's which to me is very unrealistic and slightly offensive to say on ONE performance he's superior to STS,Dancing Brave and Mill Reef.Time will tell but I seriously doubt he will win in such a manner again away from Ascot,when the other horses did it everywhere.
Fantastic
would have won the arc by a mile what a horse
@GBeret83
I'm not nit-picking but he wasn't "Toting 12 lbs. more than Cape Blanco or Workforce in the race..." This is a Standard Weight-for-Age race.
It effectively brings horses of different ages, at each month of the year, to an "equivalent weight" over each distance - it's just as if they were really carrying exactly the same weight, although they may be chronologically different ages.
In SWFA, it's misleading to say one horse carried more than another.
without doubt THE most impressive you will ever witness. NO no hopers in this field , all top class horses.
It was a very good performance, but my only criticism is that Workforce clearly didn't perform any were near his best, it's a shame we never saw Harbinger after this very good performance though.
This was a superb performance but in my opinion a falsely run race because of a small field:
Worforce needs a hot pace to settle in behind and he was tracking the leader the whole way round- he had nothing left at the end! Cape Blanco will gallop from start to finish so it suited him no problem.
Harbinger was one of two horses in the race who have turn of foot (along with Youmzain) and he just quickened clear.
We needed to see him in the Arc to truly judge him.
Also after this race Cape Blanco (who didn't stay) was rated 115, He was later put upto 119. Winning by 11L is rated 16lbs (1L = 1.5lbs over 12 furlongs) So even if you decide to rate Harbinger on the 119 rating that gives him a rating of 135, Remember against a horse that doesn't stay. There is no doubt it's a good performance but quite where they get his rating (140) from i've no idea.
@SoulSurvivor79 i agree.Who cares about other years and horses and all that jazz,this was 2010,it doesnt matter what it beat,it WAS the best horse in 2010 and would of won the ARC.
I've been following the horses for 30 years and that's the best performance I've seen. The official rating was too low. It would only make sense if you assume that Cape Blanco, Youmzain and Workforce ALL ran 10lb below their best.
If Harbinger overcomes the usual traffic problems in the Arc, and he re-produces anything approaching this performance, he will be very hard to beat.
Also he was owned by Highclere TB Racing - not the Arab or Irish Mafia. It makes a change for a syndicate of owners to win a race of this statue. Yes, they are by ordinary people's standards all rich and still contributing a lot of money but it is far more affordable than the crazy amounts invested out by billionaires Godolphin or Ballydoyle. As for not winning the Arc, point taken about the ground but it is an academic argument - he did not run. So a hypothesis built on his love of fast ground at Ascot, cannot be proven. It's true that Longchamp in October can be the graveyard of many good horses, best example was Nijinsky, but he was not himself that day and had gone off the boil. Also Workforce went on to win the Arc.
@MrNativeDancer P.S there is an interesting point regards King George winners failing in the Arc.Nijinsky,Troy,Nashwan,Generous,Daylami,Montjeu,Doyen,Duke Of Marmalade and Conduit are the ones I can think of off the top of my head and there's probably more.Only Dancing Brave,Dylan Thomas and Lammtarra have gone on to win in recent memory.Harbinger has it to do BUT I honestly hope he does.
A penny for Ryan Moore's thoughts at the time
doesnt matter if it was a truly run race. any horse that can win a group 1 by 11l and beat the best around aswell is a very good horse. Maybe if there was a big field and strong pace then it could have been closer but this was one hell of a performance and one hell of a horse
They have removed the race from You Tube and also on BBC rerun edited the film. People ought to be made to see what can happen to a horse, don't sanitize it.Harbinger was an amazing racehorse and it was wonderful to see such a win. Workforce clearly does not like Ascot at all. He threw away the race yesterday. As Willie Carson said if he had run straight he would have won. As for Rewilding -terrible bad luck but shit happens every day, things that you cannot legislate or anticipate.
So sad he never ran in the Arc. He never ran again. So we will never really know just how good he was. But let's enjoy that wonderful victory. A great sight to see such a horse galloping away from his field.
Rosalind Mercer , Absolutely agreed this was a big time special performance by Harbinger, but in my opinion, even if he had stayed healthy he would've never won that Arc De Triomphe in 2010 that Workforce won on ground rated very soft to being almost yielding that day at Longchamp. The key to Harbinger was his having good/good to firm ground like he had in the King George, and he was also without question an Ascot course specialist. Look at the replay of his win in the G2 Hardwicke Stakes right before he won the King George and it was nearly like watching a carbon copy replay of this race. This race just had much better horses in the field than the Hardwicke Stakes did. I think Harbinger was very talented on the kind of ground he liked racing over, but I've always said I don't believe he would've ever beaten Cape Blanco, Workforce, Youmzain, & Daryakana in the manner he did in the King George at Ascot on any other racetrack, IMO.
+GBeret83 Very interesting but pure hypothesis.
The defence for Cape Blanco is for me he really is a 10f horse, he would be found out by better stamina horses over 12f.
Even though Ryan Moore chose the mount on Workforce over Harbinger in this race, he had some idea about how dangerous Harbinger would be to the field. Moore had ridden Harbinger a month earlier in the G2 Hardwicke Stakes during the royal meeting, and if you compare the replays of both races it really is almost like watching a carbon copy of each other the way Harbinger blasted the Hardwicke field in just about the same manor. That being said, I'm still in the camp that believes Harbinger was an Ascot course specialist and likely wouldn't have reproduced another G1 effort like this away from Ascot. Had he gotten to race on, I personally don't believe he would've been right there battling out the Arc finish with Workforce & Nakayama Festa at Longchamp, IMO.
We'll be waiting a long time to see demolition job like this again in the King George. Remarkable...
a lot of comments on here disregarding this performance, all that can be said was workforce won a derby and an arc, we were robbed not seeing this lad take his chance in the arc... which you must imagine he would of won fairly comfortably and the arguements about his rating would not be an issue..
just enjoy the fact it was a great performance..course record too
先週富士ステークス勝ったナミュールにここからリスグラシューみたいな戦績たどってほしい
Difficult to put any other G1 performance above it. Just breath-taking. Such a shame we couldn't see more. A son of Dansili, by Danehill. Can't mistake mane and chocolate coat Danehill combo.
@somersetfan1 The 12lbs is weight for age, Horses are not fully matured until they reach the age of 4, So in championship races a 4yo carries more weight than a 3yo, Later in the year as a 3yo matures the weight difference gets reduced, (7lbs by the Arc')
Harbinger (4yo) didn't do anything what every other 4yo has to do. Also lets not forget when harbinger was a 3yo exactly 12 months earlier he was only rated 96. Thats how much a horse can mature between 3-4.
It's like he's aiming at a triple Oxer.
wish he had got to the Arc :(
Brilliant performance and he did beat some good horses on the day but........more questions than answers I think ?
awesome performance.....must be a sure thing for thr Arc providing the ground isn't too soft
Did a fair impression of seabird there ☺☺
Here's another race, what looked good and fast finishing, wasn't backed up by the clock. Harbinger ran the last 3f in around 37secs That's an average speed of around 36mph. Also he didn't knock off over 2secs of the previous TR. It was just 0.83secs. Previous was Petoski 2.27.61. Harbinger 2.26.78. BTW Frankel ran the last 3f Judd cruising on the bridle, easing up 60yds from post in 34.6secs = Average speed of 39.1mph
Protaget1:
I was watching the race before reading your comment and thinking this Is a clear case where they clearly went much to fast to early, and those near the front paid the price, taking nothing away from Harbinger though, who won like a very good horse.
No way is this a legit race. Workforce was still neck and neck with the pacemaker 1 out + Cape Blanco was off the bridle 3 out and he's not been passed by anything.
Certainly was on the clock. Not his fault the others couldn't live with him. He ran a very similar race in the Hardwick, check that out for comparison
That was a Devastating performance
Harbinger has just received a rating through the BHA of 135 for this performance using Cape Blanco(119)as the benchmark.This performance is out of the complete top drawer BUT is he within 1lb of STS?On this performance I would say probably.As I said though 'on this performance'.Let's see the variables of the future.Different track(STS ran at 7 seven different courses).Distance(STS 1m,1m 2f,1m4f).Going(STS won on soft as a 2yo,good and good to firm)Left handed,right handed,uphill downhill....
What on earth was I on about.W Hern trained Troy,meant E.Dunlop and his mare Ouija Board.He was quite critical of the longchamp hierarchy after she was 3rd in '04.
i saw him run in a maiden think he got beat that day but i never seen a horse go so well and get beat , then he went to chester and slaughtered the field
Harbinger suffered a severe injury on the gallops and is out for season. May not run again.
@bigttim1 The other horses you mention showed their ability on numerous occasions and Harbinger was a one hit wonder. BUT, sometimes you have to believe the evidence of your own eyes and the clock. On this day Harbinger would have given all of them a race and maybe a beating, but maybe only on this day. Though personally I like to think The Brave would have taken care of him when they were both at their best.
....potentially Harbinger there doesn't appear to be a STS around.He's now been put away till the race by Channon and 25/1 e/w is a cracking bet.All the same hope whatever you fancy runs to your expectations.
It would have been interesting to see what would have happened in the Arc against Workforce, but alas
I think Harbinger was a fast ground horse and Workforce's arc was soft ground, but you can see why he was sold to Japan where most of their races are on fast ground
@grincher2006 Couldnt agree more.Unbelievable that people on here assume that every horse in the race ran below par.Erm i dont think so.
Lets just revel in this brilliant horse.And one of the TRUE great performances of Thoroughbred horse racing.
WOW!
So sad BBC lost horse racing.In fact pretty much all sport.
Harbinger c.3a.(Dansili-Penang Pearl),demuestra solo con esta carrera ser un autentico "crack".
Gana en verdadero "canter",sin que tenga Olivier Peslier,mas que acompañar su asombroso galope.
Lastima que se lesionase poco despues.
Creo que hubiera ganado L´Arc,en un autentico paseo.
Gana por 11 cuerpos a Cape Blanco,Youmzain,Darkayana y ...Workforce,entra a ¡17cuerpos!.
Es una demostracion increible de clase y superioridad y desde luego pocas veces se ha visto nada igual.
If Sea the stars hadn't have been retired and had run in this race, it would have been interesting to see what would have happened here. I personally think Sea The Stars still would have won.
I don't think so. Not on that day. Obviously STS would have beaten him as 3 year olds, but I think STS was better over 10f. Harbinger seemed to be a fast ground 12f monster. Enable at 3, Harbinger would've had to given her a stone. Still think he would've done it on that day. Novellist is the one I can't figure out. He beat Harbinger's time. I'd like to see the clock-watchers explain that one. Maybe there was a tailwind?!? Edit to add - betting.betfair.com/horse-racing/timeform-debate/simon-rowlands/sectional-debrief-betfair-king-george-ascot-280713-43.html
@MrNativeDancer Agreed.He did have a high knee action and the ground must have been very quich to run a time like that.Still a very sad loss to racing but as ever going to stud,pass that ability on
Wow!!
His performance on the day was unbelievable....they can'y all have ran wel below form. Timeform has bottled it. After an initial rating of 143 (before Cape Blancos Irish Chanpion win and Workforce's Arc win) he wa reassessed at 140. By the way, Dancing Brave and Sea The Stars were more versatile but in the day........?????
This race has lost it's lustre in recent years. Harbinger was impressive but I don't think he had much to beat.
fuckin' perfection!
wow! That was a great race!
Harbinger destroyed this field. No competition at all.
Very very impressive he beat the Derby winner although the derby wasn't the strongest Workforce did break the course record he also beat the Irish derby winner (Cape Blanco) and Youmzain who has been 2nd in the arc 3 years running but i wont take evens on harbinger for the Arc
@bigttim1 what do you mean not a vintage crop? stuffed workforce the arc winner, cape blanco countless places in major races, youmzain same story. These weren't bad horses
....Regards the Derby and the form,it is all about performance.For arguments sake At First Sight is a G2,G3 animal.Isn't it still an amazing effort to give such a horse a 10-12 length start with 3.5 furlongs to go and beat him by 8? At Ascot he only beat Confront(the pacemaker) by 2L.Dear God,Stoute wouldn't have even ran him if he thought that was his capabilities.Simple fact is that he knows a lot more than us and so does R.Moore in choosing him over Harbinger.I sincerely hope we see him....
Superb performance, but I'm rather suspicious about the form on show. There were bad vibes about Workforce that day, so can't believe he ran his race, Youmzain was a perennial loser (albeit a very good one, you wouldnt want to hang your hat on him performing to his ability either), and Cape Blanco was no superstar. Not saying Harbinger wasn't a great horse, but just doubt he was as good as he looked here. I wondered whether the owners retired the horse because its stud value could only go down after this day.
really great horse...
ASSUMING CONTROL OF THIS HORSE.
@MrNativeDancer It is weird that the distance between the two are similar.Herewegoagain thinks WF did give his running which is up to him.People who don't though are M.Stoute,R.Moore and the BHB handicapper(his name eludes me).WF,at Ascot,LOOKED really laboured and uptight,unable to settle and generally all over the place.To me that's not the horse who won the Derby eventhough I don't think he'd have beaten Harbinger anyway.All the same I don't think Harbinger would have beaten WF at Epsom...
@Spursrule1969 harbinger was also carrying 12 lbs more. Or doesn't that count...
Es emocionante ver esta carrera en la que Herbinger bate por mas de 10 cuerpos y me atreveria a decir que sin ser exigido.¡Tanta es la superioridad! a caballos como Workforce y Cape Blanco),"Derby winers".Sin contar a Youmzain.
Luego se lesiono tontamente en un entrenamiento y nunca se sabra su verdadero techo.
Solo por esto.¡¡¡Mejor caballo del mundo de 2.010.!!!
Compararlo con Ribot,Brigadier Gerard,Mill Reef,o cualquier otro no tiene sentido.
Por solo esta carrera ya esta en la historia.
...again even if that means putting him away for the season and coming back as a 4yo,something Stoute excels with.His physique alone is that of a horse who needs time,hence only running once as a 2yo.Abdullah is firstly a racing fan and a breeder second,so I think we will see him again.Regards.
@MrNativeDancer Greetings.I have a little gut feeling that Harbinger won't win the Arc also.Stoute has an appaling record in the race considering the amount of top middle distance horses he's trained.No winners when he's had Sharastani,Shadari,Kris Kin,Pilsudski(ran a good race),Opera House,Singspiel,Daliapour(I think),North Light,Conduit and one other I think in Pure Grain.There's probably more.Not a good record.At this moment in time it is extremely difficult to favour anything when I'd....
Multiple derby winners in behind , a mile behind
workforce in a perfect po one word HARBIGER
.....brilliant display and I hope he does do it again in the near future but isn't it reasonable to assume(Stoute and Moore are certain)that Workforce didn't run his race?Harbinger in my opinion has a little to do yet to be in STS vicinity and NO horse has,or will ever,be accurately judged on 1 impressive win.All the same he seems to be getting better with every 4yo race and why can't that continue.Be watching with real eagerness his subsequent races.
The likes of Harbinger and Montjeu were true greats, Frankel beat nothing in average times in his 'spectacular performances'
Some pace from the start,
Dunno we should question the opposition, Cape Blanco destroyed the Irish Champion and Workforce won the Arc next time out.
@4743stephenf the only rubbish here is your comment. He ran the fastest EVER King George and won by panels! What he beat is completely irrelevant. It's like saying Secretariat "didn't beat much" in the Belmont.
Giving them all weight was one of the reasons this was so impressive. One of the most progressive horses from 3 to 4 I have ever seen.
Just such a shame we never had him have chance to confirm all of the form.
Workforce was not himself though, he did not gallop on. Nontheless, Harbingers cruising speed was amazing.
Shame sea the stars didnt run in this. They say sea the stars was never pushed for everything. He would of had to run one of the best races in history to beat harbinger in this. Could he of done it?
matthew whitehead Nope.
Sea the Stars would have beaten Harbinger half a length without breaking sweat
Nothing would have beaten him that day