Hang Glider landings on Flexwing, topless and Atos Gliders. In this video I try to give some guidance on what I have done right and of course where I got it wrong.
Some suggestions: 1. Your harness is not letting you get upright without putting significant weight on the downtubes taking you out of trim and preventing feedback from the bar pressure. When you're on approach, you are either near prone with your shoulders near the base tube and unable to get your hands high enough to flare adequately or hanging on the downtubes to stay upright. If you can't re-balance yourself in your harness to be more upright when on approach (hang a couple of cm higher, lengthen the leg loops, etc.), a different harness may be of great benefit. 2. Transitioning upright earlier will allow you a more stable approach than transitioning at the last moment when attention should be focused on approach adjustments and flare timing. 3. Get some bar mits that stay on the base tube for warmth and some lightweight, close fitting, tactile gloves to give you an easier time getting your hands on the downtubes and getting good input and feedback from the glider trim and speed for both takeoff and landings.
I just looked up "hang glider anatomy" and can't find references to downtubes and base tubes. I'm not yet a pilot. Are the down tubes the two upper legs of the triangle that support the control bar? And is the base tube another word for the control bar? thanks, interested in understanding your input
@@wildflowers465 As with many things, there may be different terms for different parts of a hang glider. The term "downtube" and the term "upright" are used synonymously (meaning the same thing) and are, as you put it in your question, "the two upper legs of the triangle". The horizontal tube or bar at the bottom of the triangle is variously called the "base tube", the "base bar", or the "control bar". That said, frequently the entire triangle consisting of all three tubes is called the control bar. Asking questions is a great way to learn but often the answer may be derived from the context as you have done.
Your analysis is very good! I would add some details, based on the experiences I had flying with a rigid wing for 13 years: First you need to use the control bar as a support to stand before landing. 2nd Never change hands while lifting them at the same time, always keep one on the control bar holding the nose of the wing to maintain adequate speed. You are coming in at low ground speed and when the wind is light you are not reaching the stall for that reason. 3º Your hands need to be higher on the side bars, they are very close to the control bar when you stall the wing, thus having less leverage. And thank you very much for sharing this video, it is very instructive!
@@Voadorx You should not have to use the control bar to pull yourself upright for landing. I described this in my first point of my initial message above. If you have to pull yourself upright, you should consider a different harness configuration or a different harness all together.
I think, stay longer on the base bar all the way into ground effect (if the air is smooth) where you are more tuned in to how the glider flies . Than, try to get as upright as possible when you drop down out of prone, hopefully your harness allows for that so you don't have to be pulling down on the uprights. With a relaxed grip high on the uprights maintain altitude while waiting for the speed to drop off to trim... Great video. Thank you.
Based upon how many times he had to grope for the uprights (missing on the initial attempt more than once) and how poor his pitch control is during the transition, this is very bad advice.
OK, Maybe I can help. Been training for about 25 years. 1) your harness doesn't allow you to get fully upright and what you can get takes pressure on your hands to hold position. 2) Your harness drops you down in the control frame instead of rotating you upright and higher on the downtubes. Because you have pressure in your hands to hold yourself upright, you can't feel proper bar position/speed. Also, being lower in the control frame reduces the amount you can flare. Your helmet also appears to cover your ears and that makes it hard/impossible to hear airspeed. Proper landing: 1) "Trim glider at Minimum sink speed" 2) Add speed when approaching the ground to account for wind gradient 3) Rotate upright (not down) and place hands near shoulders for maximum flare 4) Once at landing level above the ground, you should have downtube pressure in your fingers only as you sped up to get low. Ease out keeping landing altitude consistent. 5) At some point you will have no pressure in your hands...that is "Minimum Sink" speed. 6) Now, for the first time in your landing, you can have some pressure in your palms as you ease out to flare airspeed at a rate that maintains the same low altitude. 7) Listen for the airspeed and when it sounds correct, flare up, not out, and land with no forward speed. Landing is a climbing maneuver, you should be very close to the ground when you flare. The glider/harness/helmet combination should help with this process not hinder it. Set up the glider properly. Flare enough to achieve zero groundspeed (this is the first time you should pay attention to your groundspeed and need to do something about it). In higher headwinds you obviously flare less, no wind calls for a very aggressive flare.
They key is to have your hands up high on the down tubes and flare by pushing up vertical . maybe use less flaps not familiar with the atos but I've flown many different types of flex wings . Your getting it no substitute for practice
Thank you for posting, good analysis. I realise this is a selection of your bad ones, but commenting on those: My take is you would land better if staying on the base bar until ground effect, at least on flex wings. It is very hard to keep speed on the uprights. I stay on the base tube until most speed is bled off and the bar pressure is near neutral. So I basically switch hands and flare 2-3 seconds later. When bar pressure is neutral, count 1 second and flare hard. That makes a super hero landing with zero wind :) I did the same on the few times I flew an Atos, but the flaps give less time to switch hands. I also tried staying with one hand in the center of base bar for speed and the other on the down tube, that might be the best option on rigids. I would only approach on the uprights with slow single surface wings, specially a very big one such as the Alpha, or flying solo on a tandem glider. Any other modern flex wing has plenty of energy retention and allows for a good ground effect and late switch. Base bar + speed gives the best control to counter turbulence! One other thing that helps is to flare throwing your legs behind, not forward. That puts the CG back and makes a clean flare. Legs forward = bigger chance of the glider flying past you and nosing in. It is counter instinctive but works! Wish you excellent landings!
I remember the same issue on flex. I would try to come in on the uprights and realise late that i wasnt fast enough then switch back to prone to boot some speed on to the ground - that was the only way to get good speed into the ground. Once i switched to rigid i naturally stopped doing that. I found i was able to bring sufficient speed on the uprights - especially if i started pulling on speed quite early e.g. just before base leg. Even so I wish i could say all my landings were that great
Most of the issues are race harness related. Going back to a pod for a while can drill in the correct "upright" position and hands will naturally be high. People move to heavy restrictive race harnesses as they are low drag and look nice, but most recriationsl pilots dont need them. I had an old harnes that mounted at the hips and rotating upright was so easy. I have to fight my current one to get upright. But if you only had a race harness youd never know to fight. Hence you hold the uprights but are basically still prone can see this many times in your vids.
Or a badly adjusted one. With mine I can get very much upright and it was never the cause of any whacks for me. I even did my last training hill day with it and used it since the first solo flight. And I got it used, so not even made to measure. Never tried a Tenax, it could be different. But did fly with cocoon and knee hangers a bunch. Feels the same to me... Bottom line, you can't blame a *type* of harness for all his bad landings. Could be the specific harness, pilot adaptation to it, combined with low shoulder flexibility, and inconsistent flare timing
Thank you for this video, although it always scares me when I see a very experienced pilot making bad landings, especially as I have just had my first lesson
I made this video to help pilots like you. I have made hundreds of good landings, these are all of my not so good in the last 4 years. All of these are only a fall onto grass. Enjoy this fantastic sport. Watch my other video of incredible sites. This is what you will experience
Hi, thanks for the video! I hope you don’t mind a bit of constructive feedback. From what I see, there seems to be a lack of control in the upright position and also during transition. Your direction and AoA oscillate quite a bit. You can easily improve this by practicing soaring in windy conditions while staying in the upright position. This skill isn’t learned effectively by just landing, as we spend only a few critical seconds in this phase compared to hundreds of hours flying in the prone position. That’s why both the upright position and the transition need intentional practice. I’m confident that focusing on this will significantly improve the quality of your landings!
And I’ll add one more thing. The transition technique where the pilot grabs the upright and lifts themselves up using it is quite suboptimal. A much better approach we use: - Lift yourself up using the speedbar - Control = Stabilize any potential changes in speed and direction - Move one hand over to upright - Control - Move the other hand over - Control If necessary, adjust the height of your hands. Your approach should be smooth and stabilized, executed without any rush, transitioning step by step while maintaining proper control of the flight.
In case the flair is insufficient or late, wouldn't it be possible to avoid having the nose whack if you run ahead of the glider as soon as your feet touch the ground to stay ahead of the glider, so that it eventually falls behind your back?
Your hands are too low on the down tubes. Your flair is not enough. Your hands should be 3/4 up on the downtubes on your flair. You aren’t getting enough leading edge angle to stall and land.
I believe most of your troubles, like mine and many (most?) other HG pilots, is that you and I are being absolute pussies for holding on to the downtubes while on approach.😛 You cannot possibly control the glider with as much authority and higher approach speeds as you could as if on the control bar. I've switched to a faster glider and have had the same problems because I get anxious on close final and revert to my H1/H2 training rather than advanced landing techniques, merely because it feels more comforting to be completely upright on the downtubes for some reason. Stupid. My previous gliders didn't concern me so much, so I was absolutely comfortable flying into ground effect on the control bar, or even OUOD (one up, one down). Everyone who flies their close-approach on the control bar and on into ground effect, then only transitions the hands high on the downtubes at the moment the glider enters trim, show the best photogenic landings 100% of the time unless the weather conditions have degraded and become not conducive for flying hang gliders -- even so they land far better than you and I would. You typically have one to two seconds to flare after the glider gently signals to you that it is at it's trim airspeed, so there's plenty of time to transition the hands during that time. All you have to do is be aggressive enough to stay on the control bar and commit to a timely hand transition. Try practicing your final approaches and transitions at trim at altitude (up to but not including the flare) instead of messing-up your glider while 'landing' hard on the ground. I've become very annoyed with myself for botching my last two landings, so this strategy is my goal, too.😜
Too much theory & mats. Put into landings more feelings for speed & sport (movement & coordination). Often; no speed because bad aproach,no enouhh pushing,hands are not on the same level..sometimes are too low.Training& feeling are very important. Good luck!
The main reason your landings are poor is because you are transitioning to the downtubes way too early. Your pitch control is very limited in this position, so your final approach is simply too slow, especially when entering a wind gradient near the ground. Stay on the basetube until you are in ground effect - i.e. your feet just a couple of feet above the ground. If this feels uncomfortable then just keep one hand down on the basetube - you will get much better pitch control that way. Happy landings. HG pilot for over 35 years with over 2000hrs here.
Better advice: Ask a qualified, on site, advanced pilot or instructor to help with your landing techniques instead of soliciting online advice from strangers who have unknown credentials for instructing on such a specific topic.
The still shots and detailed explanation really clarifies the maneuver needed. Thanks
I think these are very valuable instructions, thoughts and overview of your flights.
Excellent in my opinion.
Fantastic analysis and charts at the end really help drive the point home. Very very helpful!
Very nice self critique and very informative. Thank you. Nice glide, too!
Very realistic analysis and informative clip, thanks
Some suggestions:
1. Your harness is not letting you get upright without putting significant weight on the downtubes taking you out of trim and preventing feedback from the bar pressure. When you're on approach, you are either near prone with your shoulders near the base tube and unable to get your hands high enough to flare adequately or hanging on the downtubes to stay upright. If you can't re-balance yourself in your harness to be more upright when on approach (hang a couple of cm higher, lengthen the leg loops, etc.), a different harness may be of great benefit.
2. Transitioning upright earlier will allow you a more stable approach than transitioning at the last moment when attention should be focused on approach adjustments and flare timing.
3. Get some bar mits that stay on the base tube for warmth and some lightweight, close fitting, tactile gloves to give you an easier time getting your hands on the downtubes and getting good input and feedback from the glider trim and speed for both takeoff and landings.
I just looked up "hang glider anatomy" and can't find references to downtubes and base tubes. I'm not yet a pilot. Are the down tubes the two upper legs of the triangle that support the control bar? And is the base tube another word for the control bar? thanks, interested in understanding your input
@@wildflowers465 As with many things, there may be different terms for different parts of a hang glider. The term "downtube" and the term "upright" are used synonymously (meaning the same thing) and are, as you put it in your question, "the two upper legs of the triangle". The horizontal tube or bar at the bottom of the triangle is variously called the "base tube", the "base bar", or the "control bar". That said, frequently the entire triangle consisting of all three tubes is called the control bar. Asking questions is a great way to learn but often the answer may be derived from the context as you have done.
@@dudleymead1828 thanks, much appreciated!
Your analysis is very good! I would add some details, based on the experiences I had flying with a rigid wing for 13 years:
First you need to use the control bar as a support to stand before landing.
2nd Never change hands while lifting them at the same time, always keep one on the control bar holding the nose of the wing to maintain adequate speed. You are coming in at low ground speed and when the wind is light you are not reaching the stall for that reason.
3º Your hands need to be higher on the side bars, they are very close to the control bar when you stall the wing, thus having less leverage.
And thank you very much for sharing this video, it is very instructive!
@@Voadorx You should not have to use the control bar to pull yourself upright for landing. I described this in my first point of my initial message above. If you have to pull yourself upright, you should consider a different harness configuration or a different harness all together.
Thank you very much for your video. It’s very valuable, especially for beginner pilots.
Nice video. Thank you for sharing. It helped me better understand the importance of maintaining good energy during landing
Excellent stuff sir. Very educational for all, thanks for putting it together 👏👏👏
A genuine contribution to the hang gliding community
Thanks. I was trying to help.
I think, stay longer on the base bar all the way into ground effect (if the air is smooth) where you are more tuned in to how the glider flies . Than, try to get as upright as possible when you drop down out of prone, hopefully your harness allows for that so you don't have to be pulling down on the uprights. With a relaxed grip high on the uprights maintain altitude while waiting for the speed to drop off to trim... Great video. Thank you.
Based upon how many times he had to grope for the uprights (missing on the initial attempt more than once) and how poor his pitch control is during the transition, this is very bad advice.
OK, Maybe I can help. Been training for about 25 years. 1) your harness doesn't allow you to get fully upright and what you can get takes pressure on your hands to hold position. 2) Your harness drops you down in the control frame instead of rotating you upright and higher on the downtubes. Because you have pressure in your hands to hold yourself upright, you can't feel proper bar position/speed. Also, being lower in the control frame reduces the amount you can flare. Your helmet also appears to cover your ears and that makes it hard/impossible to hear airspeed. Proper landing: 1) "Trim glider at Minimum sink speed" 2) Add speed when approaching the ground to account for wind gradient 3) Rotate upright (not down) and place hands near shoulders for maximum flare 4) Once at landing level above the ground, you should have downtube pressure in your fingers only as you sped up to get low. Ease out keeping landing altitude consistent. 5) At some point you will have no pressure in your hands...that is "Minimum Sink" speed. 6) Now, for the first time in your landing, you can have some pressure in your palms as you ease out to flare airspeed at a rate that maintains the same low altitude. 7) Listen for the airspeed and when it sounds correct, flare up, not out, and land with no forward speed. Landing is a climbing maneuver, you should be very close to the ground when you flare. The glider/harness/helmet combination should help with this process not hinder it. Set up the glider properly. Flare enough to achieve zero groundspeed (this is the first time you should pay attention to your groundspeed and need to do something about it). In higher headwinds you obviously flare less, no wind calls for a very aggressive flare.
Great content with very good explanations.
They key is to have your hands up high on the down tubes and flare by pushing up vertical . maybe use less flaps not familiar with the atos but I've flown many different types of flex wings . Your getting it no substitute for practice
Thank you for posting, good analysis. I realise this is a selection of your bad ones, but commenting on those:
My take is you would land better if staying on the base bar until ground effect, at least on flex wings. It is very hard to keep speed on the uprights. I stay on the base tube until most speed is bled off and the bar pressure is near neutral. So I basically switch hands and flare 2-3 seconds later. When bar pressure is neutral, count 1 second and flare hard. That makes a super hero landing with zero wind :)
I did the same on the few times I flew an Atos, but the flaps give less time to switch hands. I also tried staying with one hand in the center of base bar for speed and the other on the down tube, that might be the best option on rigids.
I would only approach on the uprights with slow single surface wings, specially a very big one such as the Alpha, or flying solo on a tandem glider. Any other modern flex wing has plenty of energy retention and allows for a good ground effect and late switch. Base bar + speed gives the best control to counter turbulence!
One other thing that helps is to flare throwing your legs behind, not forward. That puts the CG back and makes a clean flare. Legs forward = bigger chance of the glider flying past you and nosing in. It is counter instinctive but works!
Wish you excellent landings!
I remember the same issue on flex. I would try to come in on the uprights and realise late that i wasnt fast enough then switch back to prone to boot some speed on to the ground - that was the only way to get good speed into the ground. Once i switched to rigid i naturally stopped doing that. I found i was able to bring sufficient speed on the uprights - especially if i started pulling on speed quite early e.g. just before base leg. Even so I wish i could say all my landings were that great
Most of the issues are race harness related. Going back to a pod for a while can drill in the correct "upright" position and hands will naturally be high. People move to heavy restrictive race harnesses as they are low drag and look nice, but most recriationsl pilots dont need them. I had an old harnes that mounted at the hips and rotating upright was so easy. I have to fight my current one to get upright. But if you only had a race harness youd never know to fight. Hence you hold the uprights but are basically still prone can see this many times in your vids.
Or a badly adjusted one. With mine I can get very much upright and it was never the cause of any whacks for me. I even did my last training hill day with it and used it since the first solo flight. And I got it used, so not even made to measure. Never tried a Tenax, it could be different. But did fly with cocoon and knee hangers a bunch. Feels the same to me...
Bottom line, you can't blame a *type* of harness for all his bad landings. Could be the specific harness, pilot adaptation to it, combined with low shoulder flexibility, and inconsistent flare timing
Not all race harness have an upright issue, Rotor Havana S gets very upright. th-cam.com/video/PRCnAboOeyI/w-d-xo.htmlsi=uKU4niBgkayaEwBs&t=6
Thank you for this video, although it always scares me when I see a very experienced pilot making bad landings, especially as I have just had my first lesson
I made this video to help pilots like you. I have made hundreds of good landings, these are all of my not so good in the last 4 years. All of these are only a fall onto grass. Enjoy this fantastic sport. Watch my other video of incredible sites. This is what you will experience
@@steveyoung-hanggliding thank you for the reply, I will keep watching and sub, although I probably have already
Harness is the point...
Hi, thanks for the video! I hope you don’t mind a bit of constructive feedback. From what I see, there seems to be a lack of control in the upright position and also during transition. Your direction and AoA oscillate quite a bit.
You can easily improve this by practicing soaring in windy conditions while staying in the upright position. This skill isn’t learned effectively by just landing, as we spend only a few critical seconds in this phase compared to hundreds of hours flying in the prone position. That’s why both the upright position and the transition need intentional practice.
I’m confident that focusing on this will significantly improve the quality of your landings!
And I’ll add one more thing. The transition technique where the pilot grabs the upright and lifts themselves up using it is quite suboptimal. A much better approach we use:
- Lift yourself up using the speedbar
- Control = Stabilize any potential changes in speed and direction
- Move one hand over to upright
- Control
- Move the other hand over
- Control
If necessary, adjust the height of your hands.
Your approach should be smooth and stabilized, executed without any rush, transitioning step by step while maintaining proper control of the flight.
Sounds a good suggestion. Thanks
These are some excellent whacks! Thank you! :) Would you say the ATOS is more difficult to land than a regular topless wing without kingpost?
Nice video!
In case the flair is insufficient or late, wouldn't it be possible to avoid having the nose whack if you run ahead of the glider as soon as your feet touch the ground to stay ahead of the glider, so that it eventually falls behind your back?
Your hands are too low on the down tubes. Your flair is not enough. Your hands should be 3/4 up on the downtubes on your flair. You aren’t getting enough leading edge angle to stall and land.
How do you film or mount your Camera
+0:42 No no you dont seem to do a flare!
I believe most of your troubles, like mine and many (most?) other HG pilots, is that you and I are being absolute pussies for holding on to the downtubes while on approach.😛 You cannot possibly control the glider with as much authority and higher approach speeds as you could as if on the control bar. I've switched to a faster glider and have had the same problems because I get anxious on close final and revert to my H1/H2 training rather than advanced landing techniques, merely because it feels more comforting to be completely upright on the downtubes for some reason. Stupid. My previous gliders didn't concern me so much, so I was absolutely comfortable flying into ground effect on the control bar, or even OUOD (one up, one down).
Everyone who flies their close-approach on the control bar and on into ground effect, then only transitions the hands high on the downtubes at the moment the glider enters trim, show the best photogenic landings 100% of the time unless the weather conditions have degraded and become not conducive for flying hang gliders -- even so they land far better than you and I would. You typically have one to two seconds to flare after the glider gently signals to you that it is at it's trim airspeed, so there's plenty of time to transition the hands during that time. All you have to do is be aggressive enough to stay on the control bar and commit to a timely hand transition.
Try practicing your final approaches and transitions at trim at altitude (up to but not including the flare) instead of messing-up your glider while 'landing' hard on the ground.
I've become very annoyed with myself for botching my last two landings, so this strategy is my goal, too.😜
Too much theory & mats. Put into landings more feelings for speed & sport (movement & coordination).
Often; no speed because bad aproach,no enouhh pushing,hands are not on the same level..sometimes are too low.Training& feeling are very important. Good luck!
The main reason your landings are poor is because you are transitioning to the downtubes way too early. Your pitch control is very limited in this position, so your final approach is simply too slow, especially when entering a wind gradient near the ground. Stay on the basetube until you are in ground effect - i.e. your feet just a couple of feet above the ground. If this feels uncomfortable then just keep one hand down on the basetube - you will get much better pitch control that way. Happy landings.
HG pilot for over 35 years with over 2000hrs here.
Greifenburg , one of the easiest landing zones
Better advice: Ask a qualified, on site, advanced pilot or instructor to help with your landing techniques instead of soliciting online advice from strangers who have unknown credentials for instructing on such a specific topic.
Maybe you should go back to the training hill ....just sayin...
Thanks glad you enjoyed it