(A Very Basic) Introduction to Classical Chinese
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ก.ค. 2024
- Classical Chinese: the Language of the Ancients.
A brief introduction to Classical Chinese.
Music: Broken by Feora
• Video
Timestamps:
00:00 || Introduction
01:00 || Misconceptions
01:04 || The Ideographic Myth
02:43 || Japanese and Chinese
04:00 || Romanization
04:51 || Wade-Giles
05:48 || Pinyin
07:00 || Translating
09:23 || Writing
11:00 || Extra Resources
Resources:
- Bryan Van Norden's "Classical Chinese for Everyone" on Amazon at: www.amazon.com/gp/product/162...
- Pinyin Pronunciation Chart: chinese.yabla.com/chinese-pin...
- Paul Kroll's "A Student's Dictionary of Classical and Medieval Chinese" on Amazon at: www.amazon.com/Students-Dicti...
- Martin Fuller's "An Introduction to Literary Chinese" on Amazon at: www.amazon.com/Introduction-L...
- Stroke Orders: stroke-order.learningweb.moe....
- PLECO App: apps.apple.com/us/app/pleco-c...
- Chinese Texts: ctext.org/
- r/ClassicalChinese Resources: / index
- Wade-Giles to Pinyin: libraries.indiana.edu/chinese...
Works Cited:
W., Van Norden Bryan. Classical Chinese for Everyone: a Guide for Absolute Beginners. Hackett Publishing Company, Inc., 2019.
Watts, Alan, and Al Chung-Liang Huang. Tao: the Watercourse Way. Pantheon Books, 1975.
The correct stroke order for 回 ends with the bottom line; outside to inside is a good rule, but a huge exception is that you have to fill the box before you close it (closing on the bottom of course). That said, great video. I’d love to take a look at the ancients and the resources mentioned here sound pretty tempting. 謝謝你
In regard to the Classical Chinese and Japanese being close, I have never heard anyone say they were the same languages. Rather when they say you can learn Japanese and be able to read Classical they mean that the use of Kanji in Japanese is closer to Classical Chinese than Chinese vernacular.
Of course you have different language structure as well as one need to have a grasp of the etymology of Kanji.
I think people from the west simply applies their understanding of indo-european languages and use that to understand the relationship between different asian languages.
asian languages belong to completely different language families, but that does not mean they are as far apart as mongolian to english. the extensive borrowing / shared vocabulary, the sprachbund features (tones of sino-tibetans, kra-dai, mon-khmer languages) mean there are many similarities between these languages.
Dude, this is exactly what I’ve been looking for all this time.
Glad I can help!
ah yes hello there! thou art seen whereever'st mine gaze falls on this wretched earth... or something
This channel is a true gem. Please keep doing what you're doing!
totally. ditto 🙏🏼
Your content is really good! You've easily become my favorite youtuber, keep it up.
Thanks! I appreciate it!!
I find your content to quite enjoyable. Please, continue.
Amazing channel, very useful for my chinese philosophy class
Honestly, this is the best video I've come across for a complete beginner. Thank you for the resources!
Edit: subscribed
Thank you for the kind words!
10:33 Wrong. 回，the last stroke is the bottom line to close the '口'.
Great video! Since you mentioned some textbooks, which way do you think is better; learn modern Mandarin first and then classical or the other way around?
Thanks! And that's a good question. I'm not aware of any generally accepted ideal route, ie if one was a good introduction to the other. There are probably more resources for learning modern Chinese (ie Duolingo, podcasts, TH-cam vids, etc) but there are plenty enough for classical (like Van Norden and Fuller). As far as I can say, it would be up to your interests. If you're deeply interested in these classical or medieval texts of philosophy, history, poetry, and religion then beginning with classical may be more rewarding (although there are plenty of modern Chinese commentaries on these too). If your interested in modern Chinese thought or just communicating with anyone using the language then I'd expect Mandarin to be better first. So far as I am aware, it's up to you to pursue what grasps you the most!
You messed up the stroke order on 回. The bottom stroke goes last.
Good catch, my bad
Awesome channel! Could you or do you know of someone that could translate a few seals for me? Have been looking now for awhile.
6:32 the consonant is /t/ but yeah for English purposes it's best or at least standard to go with /d/
This is very interesting ww
Good attempt, but I think there's way too much info on modern materials, while missing at least acknowledgements to vital info such as the difference between the spoken and the written, peripheral documents, propagations to Japan, Korea, and Vietnam, how they continued to be used there, and the general chronology of CC usage, and essential corpus materials, etc. Looking forward to more in the future!
Thanks for this! I definitely agree that there is far more to talk about (and for myself, to learn about) that wasn't covered in this video and I appreciate you listing a number of them! There's always the potential for a better, more in-depth video in the future, but, in the meantime, do you have any particular recommendations for good resources on these?
@@IanWithyBerry Sorry, most of my readings are done either in Korean or Japanese, and not much in English, but I think there are many resources available via archive.org if you search on Classical Chinese AFAIK.
@@MichaelHan 한국어로 된 자료면... 어떤거 말씀하시는거죠? 한국어도 아직 부족한데 한문에 대해서 잘 몰라서 그런지 한문이라고 검색할 때마다 한자어 얘기 나오더라고요. 혹시 공유해줄 수 있으시면 고맙겠습니다. :)
Hey what pen are you using in the video to write the characters ?
So I get that Classical Chinese was written up until the 1900s but was it ever the spoken language? How did the Chinese languages evolve did it go “Proto Sino Tibetan->Old Chinese->Classical Chinese->East Han Chinese-> Middle Chinese-> Mandarin? Great channel and info btw keep it up also do you speak any variety of Chinese?
I think Classical Chinese was last spoken during the Han dynasty but I could be wrong! It continued as a literary, classical language in China, Vietnam, Korea, and Japan until around the 20th century.
That's a really good and complex question that I am not too knowledgeable about but I'll do my best. The first thing would be to differentiate between the spoken and written language. There currently exist at least eight distinct Chinese dialects/language (I think there is debate on how to classify these) that differ in pronunciation as much as French does from Italian or Spanish. Mandarin is one of these dialects/languages (although I don't know the specifications of its placement among the greater family) and has become the Standard Chinese over the last few centuries with the Beijing dialect being set as the standard dialect in the early 20th century. Each appear rooted in Proto Sino-Tibetan language. But the story for written Chinese is a bit different. Old Chinese' possible development from Proto Sino-Tibetan lacks absolute evidence and hence lacks certainty. But by the Shang Dynasty, Old Chinese was used for divination and written on oracle bones. It was also the written form of what Classical Chinese philosophers would consider as the 'classics' (like the Yijing) were first written in. By the 5th century BCE, Classical Chinese had developed directly from Old Chinese and served as the script of classical literature until the decline of the Han dyansty. Literary Chinese, often viewed as also as "Classical Chinese," would mark a period during which the various dialects would change rapidly and the written form would become even further from the spoken form. During this period of written and spoken divergence, literary Chinese would manifest as 'kanbun' in Japan and 'hanmun' in Korea. Finally, with the interest of a written form that was more reflective of the Standard spoken form and less complex, the People's Republic of China would design Simplified Chinese which is now the common form of written Chinese throughout mainland China today. Thanks for the kind words! Unfortunately, I don't speak any Chinese dialect, although I'd like to become familiar with Mandarin in the future!
@@mysticdragon2101 Thanks I’m wondering because these written languages had to be spoken by somewhat right? I mean they couldn’t have just made up a whole language just to use for writing
@@IanWithyBerry Yeah I’ve heard that’s it’s very widely speculated, almost totally accepted, that the Chinese languages hail from the Sino Tibetan family, but that its never actually been proven beyond speculation that that is true. I’m wondering what was the transitionary language between Proto Sino Tibetan and Old Chinese? Do you believe they could be from another language family, such as Tai Kadai, Austroasiatic, or Hmong Mien? Also why did Chinese develope tones and not keep consonant clusters or the “rolled r”? What other feature did the modern Chinese languages loose, and why can Mandarin only end in vowels, n, or ng? I’d be willing to provide you research on any other language related videos you plan on doing. I like languages and history and very few videos are on TH-cam about Old Chinese or Proto Sino Tibetan. Anyways thanks for the reply and keep grinding 💪 🔥
@@malismarma_5040 Oh man, those are some good questions, but probably beyond the scope of my knowledge. Thanks for the offer to help with research! I don't have any plans of more language specific videos in the near future, although sometime this summer Sanskrit may be a possibility. Old Chinese may be an interesting topic to explore deeper when I get further into the some of the "Five Classics," particularly the Yijing so I'll keep this in mind for the future!
At 5:40, Wade-Giles is a Western method. The following link gives the official romanization system, Gwoyeu Romatzyh, adopted by China (Republic of China) since 1928. It remained until 1958 when Pinyin was adopted by the People's Republic of China.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gwoyeu_Romatzyh
The G is Giles is pronounced with a soft G (“Jiles”)
you might be mixing things up with classical chinese and japanese - for quite some time after the introduction of writing in japan, japanese were using actual classical chinese for writing, first using pronunciations derived from chinese, then mixing in more and more native pronunciations, then manyogana and hiragana/katakana, which then paved way for the bulk of kanbun corpus - wenyan with furigana and/or okurigana and other gloss.
But in the beginning of japanese writing, the language they used was actually classical chinese.
Another note is that written language was already quite different from spoken vulgar chinese at the time of contact, so having one language for speaking and another for writing was nothing new and it could be that chinese monks sold the idea bundled with writing, especially considering it was more or less the same in other countries china came in contact with
9:50 I'm surprised you left out grass script.
By perpetuating incorrect chronologies you sow confusion instead of enlightenment. Classical Chinese did NOT extend from the Warring states period to 1919. Whatever dates you wish to use, Classical Chinese gradually changed into Literary Chinese which by the Qing era was fully established as a written language even though the ancient classics were still studied and revered. There are, in my opinion, three different languages we are talking about. Classical Chinese, Literary Chinese (more modern) and Spoken Chinese with, of course, elements of colloquialisms. Scholars can argue about the time periods. The point I want to make is that even though all three use the same characters, the syntax and use of the 3 languages has differences and must, again in my opinion, be studied as three different things despite obvious overlaps.
Cool video, but you actually wrote 回 wrong. You should do the vertical, then the upside down-mirrored L shaped stroke (I don't know how to call this particular stroke in English, sorry), then fully write the inner 口, and only at the end complete the hole character closing the outer 口 with the horizontal stroke.
Classical Chinese is like Latin. But many regions have developed their own writing system over the years.
I always thought it was Wade DJILES...
Shi shí shì shî shi shī
shǐ!
Why do you call that a myth?
Pinyin is if you learn Mandarin, but if you learn Cantonese it's Jyutping.
Also what even is the point in using modern pronunciation? Kongfuzi didn't speak Mandarin (or Cantonese). Older Chinese had a different pronunciation.
There are SIX types of Chinese characters, not five. It's called 六書，or "six categories of Chinese characters": self-explanatory (指事), pictographic (象形), pictographic-phonetic (形聲), ideographic (會意), mutually explanatory (轉注), and phonetic loan (假借)
The stroke order presented for the character 回 is incorrect. The very bottom stroke comes last, after the 口 is completed in the center.
You'd better watch that section of the video again. He was talking about writing styles. He said there were 5 writing styles but he left out grass script.
japanese is closer to turkish than it is to Chinese
That's only because they're both SOV languages. There's no connection between them. Japanese and Korean would probably closer to each other than to Turkish but there's also no connection between them other than being SOV languages. The Altaic language group theory has been discredited.
@@gary_rumain_you_peons the altaic theory has been on the rise again
Dao4 de3 jing1 that is popularized I heard does not jive with older versions that had been unearthed recently. They are suspecting that the current popularized version of Dao De Jing was edited by Confucian scholars to suit to their taste. Laozi and Confucius do not share philosophy at all. Confucius just wanted to be a bureaucrat but Laozi wanted to flow with nature. Confucius is proactive and Laozi is not. He recommended non-interference or no unnecessary interference. Laozi is a minimalist. The current popular printed version of Dao De Jing should not be trusted.
Classical Chinese should be spoken by Hokkien or Cantonese. It is because Cantonese is a pretty old language that hasn’t by those Mongolians changed. Now those Mandarin are Mongolian-changed, but not Cantonese and also Hokkien.
loool city
明 is actually a pictogram - moon shining through the window 囧, the sun radical in modern kaishu from is from caoshu via xingshu.
stroke order is messed up, and i would argue that the stroke order in chinese characters makes a lot of sense.
oh, and classical chinese most likely wasn't a tone-prominent language
"Classical Chinese was formulated during the Warring States Period." Actually it originated in the Spring Autumn Period.
Indeed.
Quite the nitpick! "Formulated" is undoubtedly too vague of a word, since something can have been "formulated" across centuries, but I'm unconvinced that saying "it originated in the Spring Autumn Period" is much better. "Origin" can even have connotations of the very beginning of the "formulation."
I based the comment off Van Norden saying, "Classical Chinese is the form of Chinese that was written in the period between roughly 500 BCE and 220 CE," and Fuller saying that literary Chinese "has its origins in the spoken vernacular of Warring States China." (If you disagree with these accounts, then I'd be glad to see another scholar's dating, or, if you have evidence that classical Chinese was written in the early Spring and Autumn period, say the 8th century, I would implore you to publish it in an academic journal.) Given that we taken Classical Chinese as the beginning of literary Chinese, then these dates place us in the 5th century BCE-the century wherein varying accounts place the beginning of the Warring States period at different times. Having to choose between saying Classical Chinese began in the Spring and Autumn period or the Warring States period, I think the latter is the better option because, even if it had taken roughly its form in the Spring and Autumn period, it would have only done so at it's very end-not in the 8th century, nor the 7th century, nor the 6th century.
And clearly this isn't to say that there was no prior written Chinese, as I think you may have heard it originally when you first wrote: "Imagine that. Confucius never read a classical Chinese document!" This is only a minor dispute over when to distinguish pre-classical Chinese from classical Chinese. Confucius undoubtedly read plenty of pre-classical Chinese documents, and had he read some classical Chinese documents, they would have been rather new.
So I think it would be ideal to have said that "Classical Chinese was regularly employed from around the beginning of the Warring States period." This leaves out the ambiguity, uses a better word than "originated" or "formulated," and doesn't imply classical Chinese's usage prior to the end of the 6th century. But I can't change it now.
@@IanWithyBerry What's the difference between literary Chinese characters and traditional Chinese characters.
whut. why you writing chinese?
Haha it's more of studying classical Chinese to be able to work closely with classical texts. Although, in my opinion, Chinese calligraphy is quite charming.
Thankfully, the most important Chinese philosopher didn't write in classical Chinese. 毛主席万岁，中国共产党万岁
我懷疑你根本看不懂中文，更不用說文言文了，只會找些零散的英文資料和日本人寫的二手資料，用自己的臆測做出這個視頻，真相是日本人除了借用漢字以外，中文和日文根本就是兩門內在邏輯完全不同的語言，中國文言文也絕不等於日文，它們的關係有點像拉丁文和今天的英語。你的視頻完全是個笑話，除了反映出美國人對這個世界的理解如何淺薄以外，毫無用處。
Your video is so misleading. Although Japanese borrows some Chinese characters, it cannot be said that Japanese can be equivalent to classical Chinese. Today's Japanese can only understand classical Chinese, which has been translated into Japanese, at a very basic level, and the number of Chinese characters used by the Japanese is very limited. The Chinese classics in Japanese bookstores are all translated. It is impossible for the Japanese to read classical Chinese without the help of translators. If one is Chinese, as long as he has a high school education, he can read most classical Chinese. After all, Chinese is not the native language of Japanese.
If you want to learn Chinese well, I advise you to start with modern Chinese. If you want to learn Classical Chinese well through Japanese, it is absolutely impossible. Japan has always been an imitator of Chinese culture, but we cannot say that the two cultures are very close. In fact, there are clear differences between Chinese and Japanese culture, especially in the field of ideology. After all, Chinese culture is magnificent and heroic, while Japanese culture is just a copycat.
Dude...didi you even watched the video???
@@Hepponisme As a Chinese, I have a better understanding of the Chinese language and his video definitely doesn't reflect the reality. 如果你的智商很低，請不要到網上來嚇人。
@@cowholy3031The narrator of this video neither claimed modern standard Japanese is equivalent to literary Chinese nor said Japanese can understand it without any prior knowledge
He mentioned Japan ditched the old way of writing in early 19/20th century.
Most importantly modern standard Chinese/Mandarin isn't sole heir of classical Chinese. It can be learnt without any knowledge of written Mandarin