Today's suggestions are based on your current training load focus (in your training status - the screen that shows the balance and amount of low aerobic, high aerobic and anaerobic work) and on your 7-day load. These indicators are based on the EPOC scores from your workouts and on trends in your VO2max. If you are repeatedly getting the same suggestion, it's either because one of these components is out-of-whack (in Garmin's view) or because your total training load is higher than Garmin recommends (it's trying to bring your workload down, so it keeps recommending recovery/baseline/rest). Once it's happy, you will get recommendations for hill repeats, intervals, threshold runs, etc. The training suggestion app has no knowlege of your goals, so it uses trends from your past training habits to "guess" what you're aiming for. I would also say that the app is generally targeted more at "endurance running" (anything above 5k) and will probably be of less use to sprinters and those who run shorter distances. Personally, I don't like using target pace, so I use heart rate instead (when you get a traning suggestion you can scroll down and "change target" to heart rate) - the training suggestion app will remember your choice for the future. This gives you an even bigger initial problem when calculating your target distance, but I find the pace ends up being more realistic (always assuming your heart rate zones are known and accurate - mine are known, the zones are based on my lactate threshold and I always use a chest strap). Also, after a while, you know what your workout distances are likely to end up as. I know many people don't like/trust/understand heart rate data, so the choices are there... As the workouts dump you straight back into your normal run screen (which is still live), you can just continue after the workout section has finished (don't press any buttons) and then "finish" your run and save normally it when you're ready. I regularly have 6-8 mile runs where the first section is (e.g.) "37-minute easy run". All Garmin's training plans and suggestions follow the recommendations of Stephen Seiler et al (usually known as polarised, or 80/20 training). If you're used to "going out hard" every day (aka sweet-spot training) they will feel really strange, and you'll probably think it's way too easy (your "high aerobic" load will also, probably, be massively above what Garmin recommends). Polarised training is regularly used by professionals, but the amateur camp is massively divided on this subject. There are plenty of comments and articles out there (e.g. the UK based Training4Endurance site) - but you will ultimately have to read-up and make your own mind up.
Not sure about Garmin's training plans and suggestions follow the 80/20 program. The reason that may be suspect is because the recommendations appear to follow Garmin's idea of "Load Focus" (found under training status) shows a preferred "High Aerobic" over "Anaerobic" on a scale of ... High load recommended for "Aerobic", medium load recommended for "High Aerobic" and low recommended time in "Anaerobic". I think if Garmin preferred an 80/20 mix, you would see a lower medium load recommendation and higher Aerobic and Anaerobic loads.
The proper way to use it is adding the race you are training for (or create it.. including the route, elevation etc..) to your calendar... and then set it to "Primary Race"... so all suggestions will be based on that race..pd: change to Heart Rate based
If you use it for a longer period of time you get more varied suggestions with plenty of speed training: tempo runs, threshold runs, VO2Max intervals, sprints, etc. I've used it for several weeks and it was fun doing training like sprints. VO2Max not so fun, of course 😅 , if done properly you end nearly dead. You also get recovery weeks where most training are base runs and recovery, it's ok to spend a week in the "unproductive" zone, in fact I'd say it's good to have a week very easy every few weeks of harder training. The problem is, as you mention, that you don't set a goal and a deadline, so it's not clear what the training aims for. But the nice thing is that it takes into account your weekly work load, how well you slept, how recovered you are and a "longer baseline" of your training to define a "good" run for each day.
Thanks for the comments, really helpful and glad you've got some benefit from the sessions. Definitely good to take it easy from time to time, it seems well recognised that smashing every session isn't the best way to improve, and ultimately not fun either. 👍🏃♂️
I am based in Hyderabad India and have been running for 8 years and started following the suggested workout due diligently for the last 6 months from Garmin forerunner 955 for every couple of months and found that I am consistently improving and beating my own records which are pretty close to race prediction timings. Also seen consistent improvement in VO2MAX and overall running experience, pace and mileage has been improved a lot. Despite being daily suggestions were smaller than actual events but I pretty much was able to run that distance without a problem. So in short I can say suggested workout works if you set your event and target then watch will prepare you for that target and keep showing you how far you are from your target. Happy running 👍
Hi! Do you try to follow every workout that Garmin propose? What I mean is that mostly it gives you 5-6 running days per week, which is too much for me, I run 3-4 days a week. So I wonder: will it compensate in next runs? Example: Garmin says, that I should run base 50 minutes on saturday, and 1:20h base run on sunday. If I will do only saturday, I'll loose much portion of long run through out the weekend. So I'm not sure if I should play smarter then my watch, and do, let say, 1:40h on Saturday, or just do the plan and let it compensate in the next week?
Had a sprint workout 10 x 0:15 @ 5:05/mile with 3 min recovery between and intervals 10x 1 min @ 6:50/mile. It’s nice to have the structured speed work preplanned for you with recovery paces all worked out. I rather enjoyed them
Ive recently started using this plan (ive only been running for around 10 months). Ive noticed it really focused on getting me running at a slow pace but for longer (i can now do my first 10k at just over 1 hour). The plan seems to have changed now and is starting to focus on speedwork. My personal targets now are a 5k below 25 minutes and 10k below 1 hour. I will then target a half marathon distance. The recommendations are probably more for a novice like myself. (Glad im in Malaysia now, it looks so cold there).
That's great to hear Andrew, and well done on the 10k. I found it was quite good to get me back to running gradually and pleased it helped you start your running journey. You've got some great goals lined up, good luck! And it is cold here but have seen others running in -30C so shouldn't complain!
if you getting ready for a race and want it to take into account your weekly volume your fitness and your target pace for a race use garmin coach instead, more structured workouts specific for the distance that get your fitness up for the race date.
Fairly satisfied with Garmin's suggestions. You need to keep your watch on at night to give Garmin all the required info on your physical state. One thing they could improve on is the long runs: they are all in the same easy pace. Best long runs have a variation in paces.
I believe the suggested workouts do better for me then the garmin trainer workouts. These can push your limits negatively as your goals might be unrealistic and end up in an injury or long recovery phase. I am using the watch now for half a year and what I like is that the suggested workout adapts to how you slept as well to take off the rough edges. Nevertheless you are the body that feels if you can push a bit more but the watch will take all your stats in account for your next suggested workout and that's a great help. Elite runners don't need this but the analytics can be helpful and confirm what your body is telling you.
Just bought a Garmin and I’m using the HM training plan for the pace I want to achieve. It’s training me in pace management which I’ve been useless at in the past. I’m loving the structured runs instead of just ‘seeing how I go’ runs.
Interesting video. I started using this feature after an injury and I’ve stuck with it since November. I agree this should not be a long term plan and I’m in need of something new. It does however keep your load balanced and I assume reduce the risk of injury from overdoing training. It seems to balance the running to approx 80:20. Most of the runs are base. It seems to like giving me sprint intervals and occasionally a tempo run. I feel like I want more tempo runs/intervals rather than 15 sec sprints at a pace I would never maintain. I’ve also noticed if you ignore it for a day or two, the subsequent runs are longer to make up the time. The part that really grates is the assessment - it can switch from productive to unproductive in one run and keep you there for a while. Unproductive is a demotivating term and it’s made worse by the lack of a reason or strategy to get back on the right track. Have you tried the virtual coach feature?
Thanks Richard, hope it was useful and a great contribution to the comments. 👍 Sounds like your experience was very similar to mine and I'd also feel it could be more useful if tailored a bit more to current fitness/training efforts...it's not like Garmin doesn't know what I'm doing! That said, easier runs were just what I needed as well post injury and was fun to see what would be suggested. I've not used the training plans as I normally do specific training for my event (800m) but I've seen people using them. I might give one a go this year while the racing is limited. Enjoy your running! 🏃♂️
It’s good stuff. I follow it based on the heart rate. I have taken the rest days seriously. It really boosted my performance. I think it is great for beginners and intermediates. For advanced runners, it will not be enough. It will push you to get out there and be active.
Well that was a weird feeling, watching this video, got to the running section and turns out we live in the same town 😂, what are the chances! Great video, thanks!
I purchased the Forerunner 245 about 3 weeks before a race that I completed this Thanksgiving. The watch seemed disoriented until I started to taper. Every workout was unproductive the only suggestions were really short and easy runs, or just to rest. Since I was following a training program, I ignored their suggestions. But once the race was done, I decided to give it a try. I'm kind of surprised, but it suggested an hour and 16 minute run on Monday and an hour and 19 minute run this (Thursday) morning. I did both. Tuesday, it suggested some kind of tempo run (10 EZ, 22 faster, 10 EZ), which I also did. Wednesday, it suggested more like a 42 minute easy run, but I did another form of cardio instead. They seem like suitable workout suggestions. There are just a couple of things that I might prefer. First, giving a pace range rather than an exact pace. Especially when you're running on hilly terrain. Second, offering power based targets, as I use a Stryd foot pod. But I might stick with it until I start official training for something.
Set a goal in your garmin calendar like a race with a distance and pace goal and it will become a lot accurate and precise with the workouts as it starts getting you ready for your goal. I find it a great great tool in my running. Much better than just going out blasting away with no direction.
Your thoughts are precisely mine. It seems the recommendations are a decent maintanence fitness program. Not at all as shabby as I thought it would be. I believe it is only one step away from be better if you were allowed to add specific goals over a particular perioid of time.
I think the recommendations should get some credit for keeping people motivated and encouraged to get out of the door. Agree it shouldn't be too much of a stretch to put in a goal and have the suggestions tell you what to do, taking into account previous training. Thanks for watching! 👍🏃♂️
I recommend the Phil Maffetone approach. I have a VENU 2+ and Forerunner 955 for 2 months I ran at the top of the Blue band called aerobic thinking I was in Zone 2 but it was zone 3. When I dropped to Zone 2 Garmin for the last 2 months, it says I’m no longer in the optimal range but ‘recovering’ and cautioned that I could drop into ‘detraining’. Garmin is oriented that higher VO2 max is higher fitness and that’s not true. Garmin’ s workouts are for quick gains for 5k, 10k. Maffetone is for endurance type of fitness targeting the fat burning system.
@@jubla2k when you have no more gains then you switch to HIIT then your MAF score will begin to decrease. Then back to zone 2p etc. this is for endurance training.
Injury and weight gain with negative motivation has dragged me down. I was on the fence as you but I think a coached metered training would put me back into the paces and I just bought my third upgrade Garmin watch. Thanks for a good review now I'm going to hit the pavement.
I have been using the Garmin suggested work outs on and off for years. I do think they help coming back after injury to rebuild a sound base and to keep me from overrunning. I have a tendency to push the pace to a tempo zone rather than stain in HR Zone 2 for the easy runs. I wish there was way to preview what is coming the next day in order to plan ahead. Also, I’m not sure the watch takes outside temperature into account when suggesting the speed. My HR will go up faster if I’m running at 85 F vs 55 F.
Hmm, well if you use them for a while it will figure out your pace and your threshold , your right it won’t train you for being a better 800m runner but I feel it’s more all round improving your fitness V02max pace over carting time etc . But it seems to thread more in the cautious side. 2nd: if you go to run, hold the menu button select training, you can see what it has planned for the entire week or you can wait and see it daily after midnight. (However if you overtrain the weekly will adjust to the custom load you may have done) Ps from there within training you can also select intervals and do that instead of daily suggestion and it will tailor them to you !!!
If it gives you a time to run and don’t know how far to run just do an out n’ back. 😅. 20 mins one way, turnaround and head back. 😉. Unproductive happens for many when you’re either increasing the distance and/or intensity of your runs. Normally it’s a period of adaptation. As an 800m runner you’re probably not the typical Garmin runner who runs road race distances. Be interesting to see how it works over 4-8 weeks.
Thanks for watching Brian. I do like a round trip course and avoiding running the same road on a run (see an earlier video about playing snake on a run) but needs must sometimes! 😃🏃♂️
I thought the suggestions came from the observed VO2 max for each activity I did. But whenever Garmin said I am unproductive, I was feeling a bit of fatigue and really wanted some rest. only a few weeks since I started using my 745 though.
I'm not entirely sure what algorithms are used but guess it aims to keep the type of training balanced. The way you feel is a great gauge, if you're tired, you worked hard no matter what status you get. Hope you are enjoying the 745, thanks for watching! 👍🏃♂️
Its not perfect for specific training but it does make reasonable balanced suggestions. Great for a period of time when you are just not running a structured program. Gives a little sprinkle of speed, threshold and lots of base. Most likely if you are getting many unproductive workouts its because you are running too fast or too slow for suggested workout. Rule of thumb if it says base 8:30 its better to run 8:45 vs 8:15. While if it says threshold at 7:30 its better to run 7:15 vs 7:45.
Thanks for this video... I found it because I was getting a bit frustrated with the slow runs my watch was suggesting, followed by the announcement that my fitness level was unproductive and declining at the end of them! Good to hear that it's not just me... and others have worked through it. I agree though - an interesting idea and something that I might dip into - but am now putting together a more considered/structured training plan heading towards a half marathon.
Hey Sam and welcome! It does seem like a common issue and maybe the workouts do get 'tougher' but I'm not hanging around to find out. A good training plan will undoubtedly beat the suggestions and help you get your goals. Good luck and let me know how you are getting on. 👍🏃♂️
Really fun video 😃 Regarding “unproductive”. You just need to stick with it for a few weeks, ensuring you follow the workouts suggested. Then your status with change as your training load balances out.
I just got my Garmin Watch and startet running a few weeks ago(in addition to cycling). Now I first time used the advice of Garmin and it was just way to fast. Maybe my Heart Rate zones are incorrect, but I just had the suggestion of a basic run and even I underachieved the pace and still got a BPM of over 180 at the end. For sure that was not basic training :)
I'm guessing you're not recording bike rides as runs!?...otherwise it'll think you can go faster on foot than you can! Maybe once you've done a few normal runs it'll settle down and give you some achievable suggestions. Good luck! 👍🏃♂️
A lot of people like using heart rate. I find mine goes sky high even on a medium run and have to run so slowly to keep it down so I tend not to. Might be something I'll do if I ever need to focus on getting a lot of miles done. Thanks for the comment! 👍🏃♂️
@@TheRunningMaster I have the same issue! I run based on heart rate rather than pace but my heart rate will just jam up and I’ll have to go slower to get my heart rate down or even walk
Many swear by MAF training and I get the principle but not something I've ever done. I think it takes time to learn and train the body. Maybe I will if I change the goals of what I want to run!
I just got it and I don't see anyway to bypass this 50 hour recovery it has recommended to get a suggested workout. Is there a way to turn off the recovery feature so it solely focuses on workout types?
I occasionally follow the suggested training, but mostly when it suggests sprints or something other than run 5:50/km for 45 minutes. I actually never did sprint training using my Garmin, so i got inspired from it and have created custom workouts similar to the workouts suggested. What i did notice is that it doesn’t look at my training load 100%.. even when i am low on anaerobic and high on aerobic high and low, it will still throw me aerobic suggestions. But as others say, it is also not fully clear what the suggested workout aims for. It does provide a bit of clarification what the training, but maybe that is a recent update?
I recommend switching the suggested workouts to be heart rate based rather than pace based. The goal is to keep your HR within certain zones for each activity. Pace is always a bit inaccurate because of hills and it's also awkward to force your self to go faster or slower when you're really trying keep an eye on heart rate.
...... also came here to get some idea on what the 'work-out suggestions' were about as today's suggestion is Run 1hr 19 mins at 10:45/mile pace..... seriously WTF!!!! Am using a Garmin 745 which I've had for 3 weeks. Am liking your content so will be sticking around. Cheers
Thanks Scott. Sounds like that pace is a bit beneath you!? Others have said that the workouts do change as you do them but I think they should be more appropriate 'out of the box' if there is enough data to work with. Thanks for sticking around, appreciate it! 👍🏃♂️
Would you prefer daily suggestions run goal via Pace or heart rate? I have the problem the goal pace for an easy run is much to high for me...Max HR is 194 goal HR for zone 2 is 145bpm but pace 6:15 min/km what's much to fast for me!
I recommend you to read the book from Matt Fitzgerald called 80/20 running basically suggesting to run really slow below your anaerobic threshold 80% and only above the last 20% based on solid science biology-physiology … it seems it’s what your Watch is suggesting
thanks for this , funny i was having trouble trying to figure it out . im new to running so its all new to me as to what a base run was , i was running 7:54 pace so it was beeping and saying unproductive. i was going to give in and just run. thanks
Thank you for posting this. I am looking into a watch with such a feature but am also interested in the Edge 1030 Plus, which also has suggested cycling workouts. I am curious if anyone knows how they interact as far as suggested workouts go for both sports.
Thanks for watching Michael. My guess is that the suggestions are independent to each device and not controlled centrally, otherwise more devices would have it. If you are into running and cycling enough to buy 2 devices (+ a bike power meter which is needed), I think the feature would be more of a novelty than your core training plan.
Looking at your running form it looks a bit heavy. Maybe try and look a bit taller and a slightly faster cadance and shorter strides and you won't trudge up and down so much. I also keep a midsole contact for slower runs, it looked like your feet were ahead of you for ground contact as well. I wonder how much of this is your form changing (or not in this case) for slower running which is an issue for many runners and actually requires quite a bit of practice. Good video and views, I take these suggestions every now and again but generally try one speed session and long run every week.
Yeah, I do run 'heavy' when going slow, even worse when I'm going slow enough to talk to the camera. As a 400m/800m athlete, I only really get into flow when going fast in track reps. I have to work hard on my endurance and having these videos really helps to see what I look like and what needs improving, something we didn't really have when I was growing up! Thanks for watching. 👍🏃♂️
Do the suggestions keep in mind your fitness level? I suppose they do, right? I have already setup my threshold lactate HR and i got an HRM Pro as well so i wonder if all the data i have in my profile will be kept in consideration when suggesting.
It's difficult to say. I would have thought they do but my experience had the suggestions of paces quite a bit slower than I'd usually run. Others have said the same. However I did also find that I could run the next day so didn't need as much recovery so maybe there was something in that. Someone else commented that the paces do get faster the more you use them, I just haven't used it enough to find out. Thanks for watching. 👍🏃♂️
@@TheRunningMaster Cheers, i am sort of fast-ish for having run since May, not too steadily. I'll stick to suggestions for a month and see how i go. Thanks again :)
Did Garnin suggested workouts for a month and found it hugely frustrating. Constantly suggesting slow runs and only getting around 70 intensity minutes a week. Don't really use it anymore.
12:38 unproductive… story of my garmins life. It ignores my increased pace or distance and is only looking at VO2max. Seems like garmin cares about VO2max for a runner and not their times. My VO2max has my 5k time several minutes faster than what I’m capable of.. there is no way I can increase until it decreases to reality first. I do mostly endurance stuff trying to get to half marathon. I do 3mi each run and finally can do 6 without a sore knee.
Great job on the training Chuck, and keep protecting that knee, it's so important to progress gradually. I like all the stats but am listening less and less to them because a training run, like a race, can be affected by so many things. If I want to run within myself, I will, and I'll argue that it's still productive! Thanks for watching!
Today's suggestions are based on your current training load focus (in your training status - the screen that shows the balance and amount of low aerobic, high aerobic and anaerobic work) and on your 7-day load. These indicators are based on the EPOC scores from your workouts and on trends in your VO2max. If you are repeatedly getting the same suggestion, it's either because one of these components is out-of-whack (in Garmin's view) or because your total training load is higher than Garmin recommends (it's trying to bring your workload down, so it keeps recommending recovery/baseline/rest). Once it's happy, you will get recommendations for hill repeats, intervals, threshold runs, etc.
The training suggestion app has no knowlege of your goals, so it uses trends from your past training habits to "guess" what you're aiming for. I would also say that the app is generally targeted more at "endurance running" (anything above 5k) and will probably be of less use to sprinters and those who run shorter distances.
Personally, I don't like using target pace, so I use heart rate instead (when you get a traning suggestion you can scroll down and "change target" to heart rate) - the training suggestion app will remember your choice for the future. This gives you an even bigger initial problem when calculating your target distance, but I find the pace ends up being more realistic (always assuming your heart rate zones are known and accurate - mine are known, the zones are based on my lactate threshold and I always use a chest strap). Also, after a while, you know what your workout distances are likely to end up as. I know many people don't like/trust/understand heart rate data, so the choices are there...
As the workouts dump you straight back into your normal run screen (which is still live), you can just continue after the workout section has finished (don't press any buttons) and then "finish" your run and save normally it when you're ready. I regularly have 6-8 mile runs where the first section is (e.g.) "37-minute easy run".
All Garmin's training plans and suggestions follow the recommendations of Stephen Seiler et al (usually known as polarised, or 80/20 training). If you're used to "going out hard" every day (aka sweet-spot training) they will feel really strange, and you'll probably think it's way too easy (your "high aerobic" load will also, probably, be massively above what Garmin recommends). Polarised training is regularly used by professionals, but the amateur camp is massively divided on this subject. There are plenty of comments and articles out there (e.g. the UK based Training4Endurance site) - but you will ultimately have to read-up and make your own mind up.
Hi Peter, and thanks for sharing this, very informative! 👍
Not sure about Garmin's training plans and suggestions follow the 80/20 program. The reason that may be suspect is because the recommendations appear to follow Garmin's idea of "Load Focus" (found under training status) shows a preferred "High Aerobic" over "Anaerobic" on a scale of ... High load recommended for "Aerobic", medium load recommended for "High Aerobic" and low recommended time in "Anaerobic". I think if Garmin preferred an 80/20 mix, you would see a lower medium load recommendation and higher Aerobic and Anaerobic loads.
Did not know about changing target pace to heart rate, great tip!
Wow thank you for this comment. You explained every question I had
Like automatic gears, it doesn't know what's ahead.
The proper way to use it is adding the race you are training for (or create it.. including the route, elevation etc..) to your calendar... and then set it to "Primary Race"... so all suggestions will be based on that race..pd: change to Heart Rate based
If you use it for a longer period of time you get more varied suggestions with plenty of speed training: tempo runs, threshold runs, VO2Max intervals, sprints, etc. I've used it for several weeks and it was fun doing training like sprints. VO2Max not so fun, of course 😅 , if done properly you end nearly dead. You also get recovery weeks where most training are base runs and recovery, it's ok to spend a week in the "unproductive" zone, in fact I'd say it's good to have a week very easy every few weeks of harder training.
The problem is, as you mention, that you don't set a goal and a deadline, so it's not clear what the training aims for. But the nice thing is that it takes into account your weekly work load, how well you slept, how recovered you are and a "longer baseline" of your training to define a "good" run for each day.
Thanks for the comments, really helpful and glad you've got some benefit from the sessions. Definitely good to take it easy from time to time, it seems well recognised that smashing every session isn't the best way to improve, and ultimately not fun either. 👍🏃♂️
I am based in Hyderabad India and have been running for 8 years and started following the suggested workout due diligently for the last 6 months from Garmin forerunner 955 for every couple of months and found that I am consistently improving and beating my own records which are pretty close to race prediction timings. Also seen consistent improvement in VO2MAX and overall running experience, pace and mileage has been improved a lot. Despite being daily suggestions were smaller than actual events but I pretty much was able to run that distance without a problem.
So in short I can say suggested workout works if you set your event and target then watch will prepare you for that target and keep showing you how far you are from your target.
Happy running 👍
Hi!
Do you try to follow every workout that Garmin propose? What I mean is that mostly it gives you 5-6 running days per week, which is too much for me, I run 3-4 days a week. So I wonder: will it compensate in next runs?
Example: Garmin says, that I should run base 50 minutes on saturday, and 1:20h base run on sunday. If I will do only saturday, I'll loose much portion of long run through out the weekend. So I'm not sure if I should play smarter then my watch, and do, let say, 1:40h on Saturday, or just do the plan and let it compensate in the next week?
Had a sprint workout 10 x 0:15 @ 5:05/mile with 3 min recovery between and intervals 10x 1 min @ 6:50/mile. It’s nice to have the structured speed work preplanned for you with recovery paces all worked out. I rather enjoyed them
Ive recently started using this plan (ive only been running for around 10 months). Ive noticed it really focused on getting me running at a slow pace but for longer (i can now do my first 10k at just over 1 hour). The plan seems to have changed now and is starting to focus on speedwork. My personal targets now are a 5k below 25 minutes and 10k below 1 hour. I will then target a half marathon distance. The recommendations are probably more for a novice like myself. (Glad im in Malaysia now, it looks so cold there).
That's great to hear Andrew, and well done on the 10k. I found it was quite good to get me back to running gradually and pleased it helped you start your running journey. You've got some great goals lined up, good luck! And it is cold here but have seen others running in -30C so shouldn't complain!
glad to meet my fellow malaysian friend here 🤗
Update? Did you hit those goals?
On a newer watch, if you put a run event date in with a distance then it gives you suggested workouts with that in mind.
38 minute run, just turn around at 19 minutes.
if you getting ready for a race and want it to take into account your weekly volume your fitness and your target pace for a race use garmin coach instead, more structured workouts specific for the distance that get your fitness up for the race date.
Run out for 19min, then double back. No route needed.
I wanted to give the same comment 😊
Fairly satisfied with Garmin's suggestions. You need to keep your watch on at night to give Garmin all the required info on your physical state. One thing they could improve on is the long runs: they are all in the same easy pace. Best long runs have a variation in paces.
I believe the suggested workouts do better for me then the garmin trainer workouts. These can push your limits negatively as your goals might be unrealistic and end up in an injury or long recovery phase. I am using the watch now for half a year and what I like is that the suggested workout adapts to how you slept as well to take off the rough edges. Nevertheless you are the body that feels if you can push a bit more but the watch will take all your stats in account for your next suggested workout and that's a great help. Elite runners don't need this but the analytics can be helpful and confirm what your body is telling you.
Just bought a Garmin and I’m using the HM training plan for the pace I want to achieve. It’s training me in pace management which I’ve been useless at in the past. I’m loving the structured runs instead of just ‘seeing how I go’ runs.
Interesting video. I started using this feature after an injury and I’ve stuck with it since November. I agree this should not be a long term plan and I’m in need of something new. It does however keep your load balanced and I assume reduce the risk of injury from overdoing training.
It seems to balance the running to approx 80:20. Most of the runs are base. It seems to like giving me sprint intervals and occasionally a tempo run. I feel like I want more tempo runs/intervals rather than 15 sec sprints at a pace I would never maintain. I’ve also noticed if you ignore it for a day or two, the subsequent runs are longer to make up the time.
The part that really grates is the assessment - it can switch from productive to unproductive in one run and keep you there for a while. Unproductive is a demotivating term and it’s made worse by the lack of a reason or strategy to get back on the right track.
Have you tried the virtual coach feature?
Thanks Richard, hope it was useful and a great contribution to the comments. 👍
Sounds like your experience was very similar to mine and I'd also feel it could be more useful if tailored a bit more to current fitness/training efforts...it's not like Garmin doesn't know what I'm doing!
That said, easier runs were just what I needed as well post injury and was fun to see what would be suggested.
I've not used the training plans as I normally do specific training for my event (800m) but I've seen people using them. I might give one a go this year while the racing is limited.
Enjoy your running! 🏃♂️
It’s good stuff. I follow it based on the heart rate. I have taken the rest days seriously. It really boosted my performance. I think it is great for beginners and intermediates. For advanced runners, it will not be enough. It will push you to get out there and be active.
Well that was a weird feeling, watching this video, got to the running section and turns out we live in the same town 😂, what are the chances! Great video, thanks!
I purchased the Forerunner 245 about 3 weeks before a race that I completed this Thanksgiving. The watch seemed disoriented until I started to taper. Every workout was unproductive the only suggestions were really short and easy runs, or just to rest. Since I was following a training program, I ignored their suggestions. But once the race was done, I decided to give it a try.
I'm kind of surprised, but it suggested an hour and 16 minute run on Monday and an hour and 19 minute run this (Thursday) morning. I did both. Tuesday, it suggested some kind of tempo run (10 EZ, 22 faster, 10 EZ), which I also did. Wednesday, it suggested more like a 42 minute easy run, but I did another form of cardio instead. They seem like suitable workout suggestions. There are just a couple of things that I might prefer. First, giving a pace range rather than an exact pace. Especially when you're running on hilly terrain. Second, offering power based targets, as I use a Stryd foot pod. But I might stick with it until I start official training for something.
And this morning, it's suggesting an hour and 21 minutes!
Set a goal in your garmin calendar like a race with a distance and pace goal and it will become a lot accurate and precise with the workouts as it starts getting you ready for your goal. I find it a great great tool in my running. Much better than just going out blasting away with no direction.
Your thoughts are precisely mine. It seems the recommendations are a decent maintanence fitness program. Not at all as shabby as I thought it would be. I believe it is only one step away from be better if you were allowed to add specific goals over a particular perioid of time.
I think the recommendations should get some credit for keeping people motivated and encouraged to get out of the door. Agree it shouldn't be too much of a stretch to put in a goal and have the suggestions tell you what to do, taking into account previous training. Thanks for watching! 👍🏃♂️
I recommend the Phil Maffetone approach. I have a VENU 2+ and Forerunner 955 for 2 months I ran at the top of the Blue band called aerobic thinking I was in Zone 2 but it was zone 3. When I dropped to Zone 2 Garmin for the last 2 months, it says I’m no longer in the optimal range but ‘recovering’ and cautioned that I could drop into ‘detraining’. Garmin is oriented that higher VO2 max is higher fitness and that’s not true. Garmin’ s workouts are for quick gains for 5k, 10k. Maffetone is for endurance type of fitness targeting the fat burning system.
I don't know. I've been doing this Maffatone for couple of years and it's a standstill for me. Body needs variety :)
@@jubla2k when you have no more gains then you switch to HIIT then your MAF score will begin to decrease. Then back to zone 2p etc. this is for endurance training.
Injury and weight gain with negative motivation has dragged me down. I was on the fence as you but I think a coached metered training would put me back into the paces and I just bought my third upgrade Garmin watch. Thanks for a good review now I'm going to hit the pavement.
I have been using the Garmin suggested work outs on and off for years. I do think they help coming back after injury to rebuild a sound base and to keep me from overrunning. I have a tendency to push the pace to a tempo zone rather than stain in HR Zone 2 for the easy runs. I wish there was way to preview what is coming the next day in order to plan ahead. Also, I’m not sure the watch takes outside temperature into account when suggesting the speed. My HR will go up faster if I’m running at 85 F vs 55 F.
Hmm, well if you use them for a while it will figure out your pace and your threshold , your right it won’t train you for being a better 800m runner but I feel it’s more all round improving your fitness V02max pace over carting time etc . But it seems to thread more in the cautious side.
2nd: if you go to run, hold the menu button select training, you can see what it has planned for the entire week or you can wait and see it daily after midnight. (However if you overtrain the weekly will adjust to the custom load you may have done)
Ps from there within training you can also select intervals and do that instead of daily suggestion and it will tailor them to you !!!
If it gives you a time to run and don’t know how far to run just do an out n’ back. 😅. 20 mins one way, turnaround and head back. 😉.
Unproductive happens for many when you’re either increasing the distance and/or intensity of your runs. Normally it’s a period of adaptation.
As an 800m runner you’re probably not the typical Garmin runner who runs road race distances.
Be interesting to see how it works over 4-8 weeks.
Thanks for watching Brian. I do like a round trip course and avoiding running the same road on a run (see an earlier video about playing snake on a run) but needs must sometimes! 😃🏃♂️
I thought the suggestions came from the observed VO2 max for each activity I did. But whenever Garmin said I am unproductive, I was feeling a bit of fatigue and really wanted some rest. only a few weeks since I started using my 745 though.
I'm not entirely sure what algorithms are used but guess it aims to keep the type of training balanced. The way you feel is a great gauge, if you're tired, you worked hard no matter what status you get. Hope you are enjoying the 745, thanks for watching! 👍🏃♂️
Its not perfect for specific training but it does make reasonable balanced suggestions. Great for a period of time when you are just not running a structured program. Gives a little sprinkle of speed, threshold and lots of base. Most likely if you are getting many unproductive workouts its because you are running too fast or too slow for suggested workout. Rule of thumb if it says base 8:30 its better to run 8:45 vs 8:15. While if it says threshold at 7:30 its better to run 7:15 vs 7:45.
I don’t understand the problem with a 30min run. You run 15min from home, then you come back the same way and pace 🙄
Thanks for this video... I found it because I was getting a bit frustrated with the slow runs my watch was suggesting, followed by the announcement that my fitness level was unproductive and declining at the end of them! Good to hear that it's not just me... and others have worked through it. I agree though - an interesting idea and something that I might dip into - but am now putting together a more considered/structured training plan heading towards a half marathon.
Hey Sam and welcome! It does seem like a common issue and maybe the workouts do get 'tougher' but I'm not hanging around to find out. A good training plan will undoubtedly beat the suggestions and help you get your goals. Good luck and let me know how you are getting on. 👍🏃♂️
Really fun video 😃 Regarding “unproductive”. You just need to stick with it for a few weeks, ensuring you follow the workouts suggested. Then your status with change as your training load balances out.
Thanks! The fitness is definitely coming back now I can run consistently again. 👍🏃♂️
Good on you for pushing though 👍
I went from two weeks unproductive to peaking overnight.
Great video! I gave it a thumbs up because of your "film crew's" comment at 4:37 made me laugh!
That was her first day on the job too! 😃🏃♂️
Garmin's workout says run 1 bpm higher than your Max HR for 5 x 3 minutes. :) My watch is trying to kill me. :D
Haha...and what's the rest time between? 1 or 2 days! I'd give that one a miss! 😀🏃♂️
I just got my Garmin Watch and startet running a few weeks ago(in addition to cycling).
Now I first time used the advice of Garmin and it was just way to fast.
Maybe my Heart Rate zones are incorrect, but I just had the suggestion of a basic run and even I underachieved the pace and still got a BPM of over 180 at the end.
For sure that was not basic training :)
I'm guessing you're not recording bike rides as runs!?...otherwise it'll think you can go faster on foot than you can! Maybe once you've done a few normal runs it'll settle down and give you some achievable suggestions. Good luck! 👍🏃♂️
I find it much more useful to have heart rate as the metric for the training suggestions rather than pace
A lot of people like using heart rate. I find mine goes sky high even on a medium run and have to run so slowly to keep it down so I tend not to. Might be something I'll do if I ever need to focus on getting a lot of miles done. Thanks for the comment! 👍🏃♂️
@@TheRunningMaster I have the same issue! I run based on heart rate rather than pace but my heart rate will just jam up and I’ll have to go slower to get my heart rate down or even walk
Many swear by MAF training and I get the principle but not something I've ever done. I think it takes time to learn and train the body. Maybe I will if I change the goals of what I want to run!
I just got it and I don't see anyway to bypass this 50 hour recovery it has recommended to get a suggested workout. Is there a way to turn off the recovery feature so it solely focuses on workout types?
I occasionally follow the suggested training, but mostly when it suggests sprints or something other than run 5:50/km for 45 minutes. I actually never did sprint training using my Garmin, so i got inspired from it and have created custom workouts similar to the workouts suggested.
What i did notice is that it doesn’t look at my training load 100%.. even when i am low on anaerobic and high on aerobic high and low, it will still throw me aerobic suggestions. But as others say, it is also not fully clear what the suggested workout aims for. It does provide a bit of clarification what the training, but maybe that is a recent update?
I recommend switching the suggested workouts to be heart rate based rather than pace based. The goal is to keep your HR within certain zones for each activity. Pace is always a bit inaccurate because of hills and it's also awkward to force your self to go faster or slower when you're really trying keep an eye on heart rate.
How did you do that?
...... also came here to get some idea on what the 'work-out suggestions' were about as today's suggestion is Run 1hr 19 mins at 10:45/mile pace..... seriously WTF!!!!
Am using a Garmin 745 which I've had for 3 weeks.
Am liking your content so will be sticking around.
Cheers
Thanks Scott. Sounds like that pace is a bit beneath you!? Others have said that the workouts do change as you do them but I think they should be more appropriate 'out of the box' if there is enough data to work with. Thanks for sticking around, appreciate it! 👍🏃♂️
This is great. How did you set it up?
Great talk..Remember the most common injury is the previous one
Thanks Leo...that is true!
Would you prefer daily suggestions run goal via Pace or heart rate? I have the problem the goal pace for an easy run is much to high for me...Max HR is 194 goal HR for zone 2 is 145bpm but pace 6:15 min/km what's much to fast for me!
I’m a beginner and I must say, going too fast is not currently a problem!!
My next coach workout is 11.6k but I am running a 10k event what will happen as I won’t be completing the last 1.6k
i ran for 2 hours and 30 minutes today, and for fun, I just checked the suggestion on garmin and it still suggested I do a 45min @ 5:20/km pace...odd
The suggestions don't go away if you've already recorded a run, it stays there all day!
I recommend you to read the book from Matt Fitzgerald called 80/20 running basically suggesting to run really slow below your anaerobic threshold 80% and only above the last 20% based on solid science biology-physiology … it seems it’s what your Watch is suggesting
thanks for this , funny i was having trouble trying to figure it out .
im new to running so its all new to me as to what a base run was ,
i was running 7:54 pace so it was beeping and saying unproductive.
i was going to give in and just run.
thanks
I am about try it out starting today. Normally, I run the same route everyday.
Thank you for posting this. I am looking into a watch with such a feature but am also interested in the Edge 1030 Plus, which also has suggested cycling workouts. I am curious if anyone knows how they interact as far as suggested workouts go for both sports.
Thanks for watching Michael. My guess is that the suggestions are independent to each device and not controlled centrally, otherwise more devices would have it. If you are into running and cycling enough to buy 2 devices (+ a bike power meter which is needed), I think the feature would be more of a novelty than your core training plan.
Looking at your running form it looks a bit heavy. Maybe try and look a bit taller and a slightly faster cadance and shorter strides and you won't trudge up and down so much. I also keep a midsole contact for slower runs, it looked like your feet were ahead of you for ground contact as well. I wonder how much of this is your form changing (or not in this case) for slower running which is an issue for many runners and actually requires quite a bit of practice. Good video and views, I take these suggestions every now and again but generally try one speed session and long run every week.
Yeah, I do run 'heavy' when going slow, even worse when I'm going slow enough to talk to the camera. As a 400m/800m athlete, I only really get into flow when going fast in track reps. I have to work hard on my endurance and having these videos really helps to see what I look like and what needs improving, something we didn't really have when I was growing up! Thanks for watching. 👍🏃♂️
Do the suggestions keep in mind your fitness level? I suppose they do, right? I have already setup my threshold lactate HR and i got an HRM Pro as well so i wonder if all the data i have in my profile will be kept in consideration when suggesting.
It's difficult to say. I would have thought they do but my experience had the suggestions of paces quite a bit slower than I'd usually run. Others have said the same. However I did also find that I could run the next day so didn't need as much recovery so maybe there was something in that. Someone else commented that the paces do get faster the more you use them, I just haven't used it enough to find out. Thanks for watching. 👍🏃♂️
@@TheRunningMaster Cheers, i am sort of fast-ish for having run since May, not too steadily. I'll stick to suggestions for a month and see how i go. Thanks again :)
Enjoyed your video!
Thanks very much! 👍🏃♂️
Did Garnin suggested workouts for a month and found it hugely frustrating. Constantly suggesting slow runs and only getting around 70 intensity minutes a week. Don't really use it anymore.
What shoe did you wear when you run?
I was wearing the ASICS Novablast. Been very happy with them.
Thank you @@TheRunningMaster
Watching this makes me realise how slow I am, this would be far to fast for me. But I guess it would taylor to my ability.
Good content and conclusion. A workout suggestion is not binding😊
Thanks Raphael, couldn't have put that better! 👍😃🏃♂️
Like in Bear Grylls... He did all the that dangerous strange and things... Who is better? A cameraman... Did the same but with one hand.
12:38 unproductive… story of my garmins life. It ignores my increased pace or distance and is only looking at VO2max. Seems like garmin cares about VO2max for a runner and not their times. My VO2max has my 5k time several minutes faster than what I’m capable of.. there is no way I can increase until it decreases to reality first. I do mostly endurance stuff trying to get to half marathon. I do 3mi each run and finally can do 6 without a sore knee.
Great job on the training Chuck, and keep protecting that knee, it's so important to progress gradually. I like all the stats but am listening less and less to them because a training run, like a race, can be affected by so many things. If I want to run within myself, I will, and I'll argue that it's still productive! Thanks for watching!
I actually wanted to watch this actually but after you actually said actually for the 10th time in a few sentences I actually had to bail.
Interesting points & video
Thank you very much!
a similar video over a month: th-cam.com/video/Lh2nz5G_tF0/w-d-xo.html
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Just run out for 19 minutes and back
Well this was completely useless.
Need to figure out how far it is… yeah mate it’s 19 min out and 19 min back 😂