😉My wife recently asked me " You were a mechanic when we first got married, why did you stop doing your own maintenance on our trucks?" My reply? " I think after 46 years of "DYI" I can feel just as much pride and satisfaction I can afford to pay the young fella's/gals to do it. Great video as usual Brad
I'm not a mechanic, but I fixed my vehicles out of necessity. . Now. I'm like nope ill pay to get most of it done . Except for things that I think will be fun.
When I was a mechanic there were no computers controlling everything and almost everything was analog, you had room in an engine compartment to access everything easily so yeah it's not worth my aggravation, I'll pay someone else.
@@michaeldurling793 I'm definitely not a mechanic, and I usually end up not having a needed part or tool when I encounter the unexpected (like the top nut on my drag link being seized and not coming off). It's my only vehicle so I can't just run to the store to get a new part when R&R'ing something 😕 so taking it to a quality mechanic is priceless...
Heh. Did all our vehicle repair work for 30 years before I sat down with a pad and calculated that it was more expensive between parts costs and lost wages to do my own work than to buy a new vehicle and just pay attention to periodic maintenance. With that my wife said "OK."
Brad, your level of patience and optimism is truly something special and inspiring. The "feel good" your videos leave me is something i really appreciate and look forward to. Thank you for another great video!
Those front springs are not long enough, and with the shackle at the front, the first time you drop a tire into a deep hole and it rebounds up, you will lock that shackle behind the spring perch again. Peterson's 4wheel and offroad has covered this issue with lots of jeeps. Generally you want your shackle angle to be 30-45 degrees pointing forwards, yours looks to be close to 90. A shackle reverse will help, but you'll prob find better ride quality if you go back to your old springs and put the springs over the axle rather than under. You will achieve the same 4" of lift, but better ride. It is not a bolt in swap. It will require welding new spring pads to the axle, but you can correct pinion angle better when you do this. There are cross over steering kits aplenty for that dana 44 front end, and that will get rid of the bump steer and move your tie rod above the leaf springs to prevent damage. If you don't change those shackle bushings soon, you will learn about the death wobble. It is a really beautiful old jeep. It also might be easier just to get a complete universal wiring harness with newer style blade fuses rather than trying to chase down electrical gremlins. Corroded grounds or connectors, dissimilar metals corroding, rodents having chewed wires, or just plain deteriorating insulation on wires causing cracks and water intrusion. In the long run, it will be so much less head ache. I really like that you are taking on this project. I cannot get over how pretty and how nice of condition that jeep is in.
Watched this vid again. I just visited Jerry and Edgar at Shift Autowerx yesterday and they gave my JL the twice over. All was well and got some needed rear diff maintenance done. Very friendly, helpful and quick turn around on my Jeep. Added bonus was that Prickly Pear was in the shop and in a bay when I got there and then parked out front of the shop when I picked up my JL. Fun to see it up close. Thanks for the recommendation of my new Jeep mechanic. By the way, also bought a T shirt and will do some advertising for Shift!
Oh the memories of the jeeps of the 70’s. They were so easy to work on but I’d never trade down from my modern vehicles. The reliability is so improved today.
I’m sure you realize this already but you really need to move the shackle mounts inboard if you plan to off-road that thing. As soon as you flex it up those shackles will pop back up. They need to be angled inward from end of spring to center of the spring. Loving this project man! Keep it up!
Welcome again to FSJ World! When I did my lift on the Chief I had to cut out every single attachment bolt, so consider yourself lucky there. I also had to take a 4x4 post and ratchet straps to flatten out my springs to get them to lengthen enough to install. A scary feat for sure. You may want to get used to the bumpiness. It will smooth out some with flex, but with that much arch, it’s going to be a little bouncy. I also choose to bypass my ammeter in the dash and run all new power and ground cables. At the same time I did a couple breakers (one for the cab power, one for the alternator). Bumped up to a much higher amp one wire alternator. Much safer, with greater charging and amp allowance. Might consider the bypass at the least.
Is that plumbing hardware I see at 3:28? :) Does my heart good to see a new brake master cylinder and booster going in. I sometimes have new parts that I'm planning to install and they end up sitting on the shelf for a long time. So glad you took yours out of the box! Stay safe Brad!
Boosters get weak over the years. If you have a rig from the 70s 80s 0r 90 and haven't replaced the break vac booster its a must. You will be amazed at how fast you can stop with a new one
Would love to see some more info from Jerry on the channel. He needs to be invited out on an overlanding trip. He can periodically give Jeep mechanic tips along the journey. Thanks Brad for the great content!!!
When all else fails; read the instructions. I purchased a "Chiltons" for all my vehicles (but really appreciated not having to use it). Real frustration comes from working on a creeper under a vehicle in MN when it's well below zero. That lift is perfect. Although it will look better with 33's.
This reminds me of working on my first motorcycle a 1974 CB360. One thing always led to another. It was so rewarding to work on and the local Honda dealers mechanics would teach me in exchange for some shop cleanup time. I don’t think too many guys of my generation have set mechanical ignition or synchronized carburetors. I’ll be going to see the guys at Shift once I decided to lift and fit 37s on the Bronco but not until some more tested solutions are available and it’s been relieved of daily driver duties.
Shackle angle has a huge effect on how your rig will ride. From what I can tell from the video is that the springs you purchased were stock length then rearched to provide the desired lift, but made them too short in the process. This made your shackles run an inline angle which does not allow for much movement. This was demonstrated by needing to pry the front shackles to get them to fit. If the springs were the right length the shackles would have been almost perfectly vertical with little weight on the springs and at about 30 degrees with the weight of the vehicle on them. This allows for the spring to flex. The solution is to either reorder longer springs or relocate the shackle mounts in order to get a better shackle angle. I would recommend getting some Alcan Springs made. Pricy but the best!
Prickly Pear is my favorite of your vehicles. So cool! Different shocks aren't going to help with the ride. Your shackle angles are too vertical. That is causing the bouncy rough ride, because the shackle bushings are taking all the hits from the road instead of letting the springs and shocks to their job. Your lift springs are technically too short. This is common when companies do lift springs. They start with a factory spring length and add deeper arches which shortens the springs. You need custom springs built to allow for proper shackle angle. Because of this, your shackles can easily invert and pin themselves against the frame under full articulation and it is sketchy fixing that on the trail! Atlas Suspension is where I get my leafsprings. Call and ask for Fernando. Send him this video and photos of your shackle angle, and explain to him what you are trying to achieve. His shop is in City of Industry, so just up the freeway from you. He will install them too if you want.
Car that old, changing the brake booster & master cylinder and flex brake lines is a lifesaver. Depending on the age, I'd also change the following items. Water pump. Fuel pump. Radiator. Trans cooling lines. Brake lines. Alternator. All hoses and belts. New grounding straps. Battery cables. Open, inspect, & change rear end lube. Starter motor. Ignition key tumbler-switch. Inspect exhaust as needed. Heater core. Heater blower motor. U-joints
High arch lift springs for "Spring under axle" tend to be a little rougher. There are some tricks you can do to help. Alot of us YJ guys run the spring and shackle bolts much looser than the factory torque spec, and use nylock nuts to keep them from coming off. (40 ft lbs instead of 90) The angle of your shackles is nearly vertical,(which makes for a rougher ride) ideally getting it closer to a 45* angle makes a huge difference but its easier said than done. Hopefully you can look into those things and get some ideas. Alot of the same tricks YJ guys use should cross over to FSJ. I would consider some longer shackles as well which will add a little more height also but reach easier too. Hope that helps! -Dan
Years ago when I needed my Cherokee lifted to accommodate taller narrow tires, they merely added single leaf's on each set giving me appx. 2.5 inches of lift. I didn't experience the handling and other issues associated with higher lift's. My steering radius change was microscopic and overall I was pleased with the project.
I think everyone should be trained on how to replace an alternator in school. I've had to replace it in a number of my own vehicles and it really is a straight forward process that most people can do themselves. The Jeep is looking good Brad, looking forward to see how it comes along 😁
That is a fantastic new stance Brad. Most definitely took it from the station wagon feel to an offroad rig. Prickly Pear is looking good. Hope you get the rest sorted out to actually take it offroad soon.
Did Gerry say MAPLE SYRUP!!! At 78 I'm more than happy to pay a mechanic. As a carpenter in my early years, necessity by low income DIY. Here in Ore, when 18 deg, I'm like, GEE IM GLAD IM RETIRED! Remembering others have to make a living also. Today going to VA Cli ic in Eugene then out 🏕 yay! Have a diesel heater to keep me warm after hiking. Doing thi gs couldn't do younger. Also, Army Vet, France 🇫🇷 and Nam. IM PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN, GOD BLESS THE USA! And thank you for your service, Brad. My rig, had 98 k1500 Silverado, upgraded to 2015 k1500.....trying out this week! Yay!
loving your PPP.... she looks amazing and once up and running with the tlc still needed your smile will be bigger than the grand canyon. I am not really into jeeps over here in England but PPP is the history and class that shouldnt be forgotten. I got a few small jobs done on my old Pajero 4x4.. i still want to add taller stiffer springs and then new brake lines as it already has a 2 inch body lift i did last year. I want to get her out soon and spend a night or 2 in a tent along side her.
Doing a shackle reversal on the front as well as slightly longer rear shackles will improve the ride quality greatly. We ran into a similar issue lifting an old IH Scout. Thanks for the awesome content and hard work you put into sharing your adventures with us!
The leaf pings will settle down with miles/time. Give the old gal a few months/miles she'll come around and settle down. When I was younger and in college, we would take a second set of leaf springs for whatever car we had, and would cut off the ends of each leaf, then stuff the cut off leafs in between the existing leafs. It made a huge difference in stance and ride, as you see on your rig. It was (and is) an affordable lift when you're in college and money is scarce! lol Looking forward to future videos!
I fought a charging problem for a bit on my FSJ Cherokee. The stock resistor wire that told the alternator to charge was old and brittle. It would sometimes complete the circuit, other times not so much. Once I fixed that it worked great every time.
When the mechanic was talking about the brakes being “Amazing” he sounded like Marco talking about trail rides and food. Looks good Brad. A time machine.
Great video! Love the build. Let the leaf springs settle. Then point rear pinion 2-3 degrees (using shims) lower than it pointing directly at the transfer case, and use a double cardan driveshaft. This is due to pinion rotating upward, on load, for a leaf spring vehicle. And I agree with others that the front shackle angle looks way off. It should be 20-40 degrees forward depending on on-road, or off-road ride. Might consider shackle reversal, but either way might need to move spring perch in order to get optimal ride quality.
Notice both driveshafts offset to the passenger side, which means you have the full time transfer case. Either shaft could be the cause of the vibration. Love the stance!
You can buy a vehicle or build the vehicle you want from scratch. I like building the vehicle you want, even though it does come with challenges. Looks like you have a fun build going there, look forward to seeing how it comes along. Jason
Just a note on that block of wood trick you're supposed to put the shackle on it spin first and then as you line up the leaf spring you stretch it using the block of wood and then all you have to do is roll the shackle up and put the bolt in.
I had a 1982 Wagoneer, but sold it in the late 90s, not a spot of rust, 50K miles, beautiful, was dad in laws, and he babied it, oil changed every 2500 miles, cleaned, all fluids changed meticulously.
Great vid Brad. Need to get my wife's TJ into Shift and have some work done. Enjoying the Prickly Pear project and hope to see you out on the local trails.
Where in the world did you ever find a 74 Jeep Cherokee, they had a reputation in the rust belt to rust away in no more than 6-8 years here in Northern Ohio. Buddy got his father's J10, just before I retired from the Navy in 93. It didn't get that many highway miles on it, it was a cared-for farm truck, and yes they do exist. We sat about restoring it, ended up doing a full frame off. Can say it was well built, but a real rust bucket. Got real good at frame rust repairs and sandblasting.
Love the old vehicle content, keep it coming! Currently lifting a K5 Blazer and battling similar 'old' vehicle issues. Recommend everything you can reasonably replace - do it when opportunity presents itself, i.e., shackles, bushings, etc. And...4" is a fairly high lift - keep the tire size moderate or new problems will surface. GOOD LUCK!!!
Loving this project, I've been resto-modding an 85 4runner for the last 3 years. Currently running OME leafs but had to use an add a leaf on the front and the back isnt quite sitting where I want it. Some custom deaver packs are on my wish list. Everything on old trucks takes 3 times longer than expected lol.
I’ve done this on the ground with my 79 Ramcharger. But that was 8 yrs ago. Engine/trans/T-case swap in 08-09, had a buddy’s lift for that. I just turned 50, a lift is in my future for sure. I’m rewiring it now
When I did suspension work for a living, I generally started the shackles first and the spring eyes last. That usually worked better. The springs will soften up and settle down a little bit in around 500-1000 miles of daily driving.
Ah the adventures (perils?) of a vintage restoration! This is just like my neighbor who is restoring a 1950s Chevy pickup. (we seem to be the mecca of vintage car restorations up here in La Crescenta) Every day is a new adventure in finding the most bizarre, rusted out, gunked up component buried in the back of the engine bay or up underneath the truck. Its always something that you'll never find a replacement for... so its expensive custom fabrication or restoration. It takes 20 years to finish the project and ends up costing way more than the vehicle is worth. But its done for the love of the vehicle and the joy of the process! Enjoy the ride, Brad. One day this will be your favorite Jeep! :)
I had a 77 Chef Cherokee. back in 90 to 99 totally awesome I miss her so bad. I now own a 97 Cherokee with a lot more plastic but it does have a few more creature comforts. I love them both and will probably stay with the Cherokee line till I die.
With all the electrical gremlins that you have found, have you considered doing a new harness? Like something from Painless? I know that rewiring an entire vehicle is no small task, but it actually saved me a ton of time on my old vehicle that had similar electrical problems. I found so many problems in my old harness after I fully removed it that would have been a complete nightmare to track down individually.
I know it would involve some extra work… But a Popular Mod (did it on my CJ7) is to do a Reverse Shackle… It would help with your ride, and you can then address that Shackle Angle on the Front 🤔 👍
Your charging problem is likely the external voltage regulator--usually found on the interior of the passenger front wheel arch. They have a limited lifespan--I am on my third in 40 years with my '74 J-20. Symptoms were the same--including around 18v at times (not good!). On a 'systems' note, the whole Jeep is indeed made of easily replaceable parts. However it was made as a system, and messing with the system causes unintended consequences. Lift kits cause bump steer, hard ride (unless you do a spring-over-axle), driveline fit and vibration, U-joint wear, increased fuel consumption (more aerodynamic drag), worse cooling (less under-hood suction due to the front axle now in full airflow on the highway), etc. 40 years with one of these rigs teaches that caution is often the better part of valor. But good luck--nice sounding rig too!
Great video! Like see detail about your vintage Jeep…even the issues. I have a 1969 Toyota Land Cruiser FJ55 so I know there is always something. Keep making the videos on this awesome truck. Can’t wait to see the big tires on it!
Hi TrailRecon-----I did not read the other comments but you can almost put money on it that the bouncy ride is all due to vertical shackles......been there done it. The angle needs to be about 30 to 45 degrees from the vertical. Now how you do that is the question. A combination of a longer shackle coupled with the mount that needs to be moved an inch or so inwards would fix you up . 1 mod leads to 2 more. :)
Your Cherokee looks great with the lift and stockish tires. I love an old school truck that sits high but doesn't necessarily have monster tires. I'd hate for you to cut the fenders but have fun and do what you want to do. It'll look good with the new tires too. When you tear apart the interior you should put in spray insulation and regular insulation on top to make it quieter.
We love the video Brad. Lots of fun. I enjoy doing that too. Fuel injection helps. Holley fuel injection sniper kit. Can't wait to see you on the trail
Brad, I have a 72 J truck and fought a random no charge problem for a long time, two alternators, key switch, tore into the wiring harness and finally chased the alternators field exciter wire to a thermistor switch mounted to the grille by the Left Front headlight. On a cool morning or cold day it may or may not charge, I could pinch that thermistor switch between my thumb and index finger and in seconds it would close and start charging. The truck was equipped with an electric choke from the factory so possibly it was to delay the heating of the choke? On cold days I can't see how it would EVER warm up where it was mounted! Couldn't find any information about this in Jeep manuals or online so I just bypassed the thermistor and the Charging and Choke system work fine now!
I'd be worried that the spring hangers will flip back if you flex out the suspension. You could always try less-strong springs and then use blocks to raise it up making up for any springs you have removed. Looks good, though. Hopefully there aren't too many gremlins to chase down. I still think I'd look for a disk brake conversion kit for the rear.
I think you will find that the the alternator isn't the issue. Its the Motorola voltage regulator on the passenger side fender. These alternators were externally regulated. The rear springs are way easier to put on if you bolt the shackle to the post, and then just rotate it up to the spring once you have the spring pre-compressed.
15:12 I live in Canada, if we ran our shocks with bare shafts like that they would be pitted and rusted after one winter, we would need to put shock boots on our shocks here.
It feels real good when you know what you doing and everything comes together sometime it doesn't happen when you wanted but eventually you put it together , great video 👍
Just a heads up, Those shims in the rear spring packs can throw off your pinion angle and cause vibration. I have had different jeeps with various lifts and have never needed any shims to correct the angles. I would suggest removing those shims and driving it to see if the vibration goes away. Also look into swapping to the newer 78+ style 10si alternator and do away with the external regulated one
Love seeing the old stuff get more life. I hope you got the guys the proper flag for their uniform. I suppose it's the Vet in me noticing something like that.
I really have enjoyed watching your videos. Seeing your Jeep come to life is a fun adventure I feel I get to share with you. Look forward your next update.
Look into shackle swap for the front. It should soften the ride, fix the shackle angle and replace the post mount. Did wonders on my old j4000 and 90 f250
It won’t get much softer. It’s a leaf suspension. More meat via tire, air down, and some really good shocks to rebound the leaves, can make it much better. Linking up and going coils is the best way, but they probably don’t have anything for that and you’d have to go custom $$$$$$$$$$. You should be good with meat and shocks, as well as airing down. At the end of the day, it’s a 50 year old truck. We tend to get snobby these days with out soft rides. I Drive my lifted 2000 F350 off road. Air down the 37s, and it’s not to bad. I just have to get my fillings replaced every year
Great video altho I did like the stock look can't wait to see the end project and yes you were smart to take that one into the shop dodged a bullet there🙂
Those leaves would have been a bear to do on jack stands. Good call to have the shop do it. I normally like doing that part, but time, money and effort are all things that have to weigh into it.
I lifted my 83 waggy 3 1/2 inches with a spring lift. It was stiff in the front, not bad but it was worse in the rear. I think next time I'll try stock springs with a axle over up front and flipped shackle rear.
I love the new raised look - and those rims are fantastic looking!!!! I love that style. Want to find something like those form my 2011 Dodge Ram 2500.
Good evening, since this is your first real AMC jeep. You notice how companies purchased parts, from whom had extra parts on the shelf. if you'd like some excitement go back Kaiser age. That's where the excitement starts.
Using that block of wood is a nice hack I don't think I would have thought about it even though watching it made me remember having seen it done before. Also that shows you how much the springs are going to settle.
Enjoy your videos! As you replace your charging system check all your ground connections. Old trucks have grounding gremlins. Hope to see you on the trail some day👍
I'm on the lookout for a Cherokee Chief. It has some different fender clearances in the back I'm fond of. Same front basically though. If I get one, we are going wheeling Brad!
Take the inner and outer fenders off. Easy to do, and makes access so much easier. Getting to the alternator, etc. And, while you're in there, maybe take a look at the water pump if you haven't already. Buy the aluminum one, not cast iron. Better flow.
Another way to hook up the shackle is to use a Porta-Power with the chisle looking attachments on each end. You can use an old fashioned bumper jack with tubing, just crimp the ends to fit where the leaf rolls into a bushing eye. The springs you ordered have thick leaves. For most spring shops, installers, and especially sales people they will sell you on spring packs that are stiff and call them heavy duty. If you knew, you would have ordered spring packs with thinner leaves, about the original leaf thickness. Such a spring pack will likely have an extra one or two leaves to handle the added lift, but result is a much smoother softer ride. When you install the new tires, air them to about 30 psi not what the side wall says or what the tire guy tells you. With 30 psi drive to a self-serve car wash that has a nice smooth concrete floor. Drive the front tires through the stall to other end where the concrete is dry. Measure the tread of your new tire and measure the footprint it leaves. The tire should tire tread and footprint ought to measure the same or the footprint ought to be about 1/4 inch less than the tire tread measurement. You will need to air down until the footprint is equal to the tread or about 1/4 inch shy. I air down 5 psi at a time on new tires from 30 psi. Make sure to measure the tread lugs that stick out the most. You will see a bulge at the bottom of you tire, but remember that radial tires typically have bulge anyway. Once you have the front tires dialed in repeat the process on the rear tires. You will notice that the rear tires will need less psi than the front tires. That is because the front end is typically heavier, especially if you have a winch or other heavy accessories, such as a bumper constructed out 1/2 inch plate. Ok, so a new bumper won't be 1/2 plate, but you get the idea, the new bumper will be heavier. And also. the factory bumpers are very light, they were designed mostly for looks. By airing down the tires as I have described you will experience a smooth ride and the tires will wear from shoulder to shoulder as opposed to wearing mostly in the center. Your tires will last longer when the entire tread meets the pavement. On my CJ5 I run 33" ATX tires with 14 psi front and 11 psi rear with no ill effects. My CJ5 has a lift with thin leaf springs and rides very smooth. Plus, when I get off the pavement I have not had to air down yet. I have driven on soggy muddy trails, and now we have snow I can play in with no problems. My girlfriend's long bed MJ runs 15 psi front and 12 psi rear with no problems. It rides very well and very smooth compared to other trucks about the same size that ride like they are on boulders. I have aired down here truck to 6 psi on rocky river bottoms. I make a point to make sure that the rim is 2" narrower than the tire. For example, a 33X12.50X16 I run an 8" wide rim. I have been doing this for decades with no problems. Tire guys will argue against the practice, but whose truck is it and do they go offroad like you and me?? Probably not. One last point is to measure the tread depth before you move the truck with new tires, measure the tread depth on tire shop's lot. Measure the inside of the thread, the center, and the outside of the tread and monitor wear every so often, you choose the milage. That will give you a clue as to whether you need to air up or down, or leave it as is and continue monitoring. Monitor your air pressure often. I checked the pressure on my tires after a 45 minute drive today at highway speeds and both front and rear pressures went up 3 psi. I just left at that. Ok, I think that is enough for now. I yield back the soap box before someone yanks me off with a shepherd's hook!!
Old school mechanic told me to take a piece of chalk make a make across all the tires drive it a few miles and see if you have to air down or up and that will be your tire pressure .....
@@freddieweimann3602 Good one! Another way is to roll some paint on the tread and lower the painted portion onto a cardboard. I would use a piece of sheet metal, backside of formica, or other flat material. Cardboard can give you a false reading at the shoulders because the footprint will roll the edges of your reading. Cardboard that is not corrugated works best. But I like the chalk trick.
You can get bulk copper line. I've done that with a pair of XJ Cherokees because the salt in Illinois rusts them so badly. My WJ has a stainless brake line added by a previous owner.
😉My wife recently asked me " You were a mechanic when we first got married, why did you stop doing your own maintenance on our trucks?" My reply? " I think after 46 years of "DYI" I can feel just as much pride and satisfaction I can afford to pay the young fella's/gals to do it. Great video as usual Brad
Well said! Thank you!
I'm not a mechanic, but I fixed my vehicles out of necessity. . Now. I'm like nope ill pay to get most of it done . Except for things that I think will be fun.
When I was a mechanic there were no computers controlling everything and almost everything was analog, you had room in an engine compartment to access everything easily so yeah it's not worth my aggravation, I'll pay someone else.
@@michaeldurling793 I'm definitely not a mechanic, and I usually end up not having a needed part or tool when I encounter the unexpected (like the top nut on my drag link being seized and not coming off). It's my only vehicle so I can't just run to the store to get a new part when R&R'ing something 😕 so taking it to a quality mechanic is priceless...
Heh. Did all our vehicle repair work for 30 years before I sat down with a pad and calculated that it was more expensive between parts costs and lost wages to do my own work than to buy a new vehicle and just pay attention to periodic maintenance. With that my wife said "OK."
Brad, your level of patience and optimism is truly something special and inspiring. The "feel good" your videos leave me is something i really appreciate and look forward to. Thank you for another great video!
Those front springs are not long enough, and with the shackle at the front, the first time you drop a tire into a deep hole and it rebounds up, you will lock that shackle behind the spring perch again. Peterson's 4wheel and offroad has covered this issue with lots of jeeps. Generally you want your shackle angle to be 30-45 degrees pointing forwards, yours looks to be close to 90. A shackle reverse will help, but you'll prob find better ride quality if you go back to your old springs and put the springs over the axle rather than under. You will achieve the same 4" of lift, but better ride. It is not a bolt in swap. It will require welding new spring pads to the axle, but you can correct pinion angle better when you do this. There are cross over steering kits aplenty for that dana 44 front end, and that will get rid of the bump steer and move your tie rod above the leaf springs to prevent damage. If you don't change those shackle bushings soon, you will learn about the death wobble. It is a really beautiful old jeep.
It also might be easier just to get a complete universal wiring harness with newer style blade fuses rather than trying to chase down electrical gremlins. Corroded grounds or connectors, dissimilar metals corroding, rodents having chewed wires, or just plain deteriorating insulation on wires causing cracks and water intrusion. In the long run, it will be so much less head ache.
I really like that you are taking on this project. I cannot get over how pretty and how nice of condition that jeep is in.
Shackle angle certainly has something to do with the rough ride also. I predict some inverted shackles the first time it flexes out.
Watched this vid again. I just visited Jerry and Edgar at Shift Autowerx yesterday and they gave my JL the twice over. All was well and got some needed rear diff maintenance done. Very friendly, helpful and quick turn around on my Jeep. Added bonus was that Prickly Pear was in the shop and in a bay when I got there and then parked out front of the shop when I picked up my JL. Fun to see it up close. Thanks for the recommendation of my new Jeep mechanic. By the way, also bought a T shirt and will do some advertising for Shift!
Oh the memories of the jeeps of the 70’s. They were so easy to work on but I’d never trade down from my modern vehicles. The reliability is so improved today.
I’m sure you realize this already but you really need to move the shackle mounts inboard if you plan to off-road that thing. As soon as you flex it up those shackles will pop back up. They need to be angled inward from end of spring to center of the spring.
Loving this project man! Keep it up!
The old girl is getting a lot of love!! Well done Brad!
Welcome again to FSJ World! When I did my lift on the Chief I had to cut out every single attachment bolt, so consider yourself lucky there. I also had to take a 4x4 post and ratchet straps to flatten out my springs to get them to lengthen enough to install. A scary feat for sure. You may want to get used to the bumpiness. It will smooth out some with flex, but with that much arch, it’s going to be a little bouncy. I also choose to bypass my ammeter in the dash and run all new power and ground cables. At the same time I did a couple breakers (one for the cab power, one for the alternator). Bumped up to a much higher amp one wire alternator. Much safer, with greater charging and amp allowance. Might consider the bypass at the least.
Is that plumbing hardware I see at 3:28? :) Does my heart good to see a new brake master cylinder and booster going in. I sometimes have new parts that I'm planning to install and they end up sitting on the shelf for a long time. So glad you took yours out of the box! Stay safe Brad!
Yep, I think it's a check valve or something from the hardware store. I've got a new gas tank and hoses on the long to do lost. Thanks!
Boosters get weak over the years. If you have a rig from the 70s 80s 0r 90 and haven't replaced the break vac booster its a must. You will be amazed at how fast you can stop with a new one
I truly bet you were glad that you kept those new leaf spring mounting instructions!!!!
I was 🤣🤣🤣
Would love to see some more info from Jerry on the channel. He needs to be invited out on an overlanding trip. He can periodically give Jeep mechanic tips along the journey. Thanks Brad for the great content!!!
When all else fails; read the instructions. I purchased a "Chiltons" for all my vehicles (but really appreciated not having to use it). Real frustration comes from working on a creeper under a vehicle in MN when it's well below zero. That lift is perfect. Although it will look better with 33's.
This reminds me of working on my first motorcycle a 1974 CB360. One thing always led to another. It was so rewarding to work on and the local Honda dealers mechanics would teach me in exchange for some shop cleanup time. I don’t think too many guys of my generation have set mechanical ignition or synchronized carburetors. I’ll be going to see the guys at Shift once I decided to lift and fit 37s on the Bronco but not until some more tested solutions are available and it’s been relieved of daily driver duties.
I'll bet that bike was a beauty! Shift will take good care of you!
Man, this episode was freaking awesome. No off roading but still great. Thank you brotha.
Shackle angle has a huge effect on how your rig will ride. From what I can tell from the video is that the springs you purchased were stock length then rearched to provide the desired lift, but made them too short in the process. This made your shackles run an inline angle which does not allow for much movement. This was demonstrated by needing to pry the front shackles to get them to fit. If the springs were the right length the shackles would have been almost perfectly vertical with little weight on the springs and at about 30 degrees with the weight of the vehicle on them. This allows for the spring to flex. The solution is to either reorder longer springs or relocate the shackle mounts in order to get a better shackle angle. I would recommend getting some Alcan Springs made. Pricy but the best!
Prickly Pear is my favorite of your vehicles. So cool!
Different shocks aren't going to help with the ride. Your shackle angles are too vertical. That is causing the bouncy rough ride, because the shackle bushings are taking all the hits from the road instead of letting the springs and shocks to their job. Your lift springs are technically too short. This is common when companies do lift springs. They start with a factory spring length and add deeper arches which shortens the springs. You need custom springs built to allow for proper shackle angle. Because of this, your shackles can easily invert and pin themselves against the frame under full articulation and it is sketchy fixing that on the trail!
Atlas Suspension is where I get my leafsprings. Call and ask for Fernando. Send him this video and photos of your shackle angle, and explain to him what you are trying to achieve. His shop is in City of Industry, so just up the freeway from you. He will install them too if you want.
Car that old, changing the brake booster & master cylinder and flex brake lines is a lifesaver.
Depending on the age, I'd also change the following items.
Water pump.
Fuel pump.
Radiator.
Trans cooling lines.
Brake lines.
Alternator.
All hoses and belts.
New grounding straps.
Battery cables.
Open, inspect, & change rear end lube.
Starter motor.
Ignition key tumbler-switch.
Inspect exhaust as needed.
Heater core.
Heater blower motor.
U-joints
These old keeps look good with a couple inches of rake. 1or 2 extra inches of lift can be achieved in the rear with longer shackles or lift blocks.
I grew up in a 76 that looked identical to yours. A lot of wild memories/adventures in that thing.
High arch lift springs for "Spring under axle" tend to be a little rougher. There are some tricks you can do to help. Alot of us YJ guys run the spring and shackle bolts much looser than the factory torque spec, and use nylock nuts to keep them from coming off. (40 ft lbs instead of 90)
The angle of your shackles is nearly vertical,(which makes for a rougher ride) ideally getting it closer to a 45* angle makes a huge difference but its easier said than done. Hopefully you can look into those things and get some ideas. Alot of the same tricks YJ guys use should cross over to FSJ. I would consider some longer shackles as well which will add a little more height also but reach easier too. Hope that helps! -Dan
Years ago when I needed my Cherokee lifted to accommodate taller narrow tires, they merely added single leaf's on each set giving me appx. 2.5 inches of lift.
I didn't experience the handling and other issues associated with higher lift's. My steering radius change was microscopic and overall I was pleased with the project.
I think everyone should be trained on how to replace an alternator in school. I've had to replace it in a number of my own vehicles and it really is a straight forward process that most people can do themselves.
The Jeep is looking good Brad, looking forward to see how it comes along 😁
That is a fantastic new stance Brad. Most definitely took it from the station wagon feel to an offroad rig. Prickly Pear is looking good. Hope you get the rest sorted out to actually take it offroad soon.
Did Gerry say MAPLE SYRUP!!! At 78 I'm more than happy to pay a mechanic. As a carpenter in my early years, necessity by low income DIY. Here in Ore, when 18 deg, I'm like, GEE IM GLAD IM RETIRED! Remembering others have to make a living also. Today going to VA Cli ic in Eugene then out 🏕 yay! Have a diesel heater to keep me warm after hiking. Doing thi gs couldn't do younger. Also, Army Vet, France 🇫🇷 and Nam. IM PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN, GOD BLESS THE USA! And thank you for your service, Brad. My rig, had 98 k1500 Silverado, upgraded to 2015 k1500.....trying out this week! Yay!
loving your PPP.... she looks amazing and once up and running with the tlc still needed your smile will be bigger than the grand canyon. I am not really into jeeps over here in England but PPP is the history and class that shouldnt be forgotten. I got a few small jobs done on my old Pajero 4x4.. i still want to add taller stiffer springs and then new brake lines as it already has a 2 inch body lift i did last year. I want to get her out soon and spend a night or 2 in a tent along side her.
Just love watching your videos/ content and experiences with everything you do...
One of the best off road channels on you tube.
Thank you so much!
Doing a shackle reversal on the front as well as slightly longer rear shackles will improve the ride quality greatly. We ran into a similar issue lifting an old IH Scout. Thanks for the awesome content and hard work you put into sharing your adventures with us!
The leaf pings will settle down with miles/time. Give the old gal a few months/miles she'll come around and settle down. When I was younger and in college, we would take a second set of leaf springs for whatever car we had, and would cut off the ends of each leaf, then stuff the cut off leafs in between the existing leafs. It made a huge difference in stance and ride, as you see on your rig. It was (and is) an affordable lift when you're in college and money is scarce! lol Looking forward to future videos!
Looks fantastic Brad! 100% better! Cant wait to see camping trips in the old girl!
Thanks! It will be a bit longer than expected before I'm camping in it, but we are heading in the right direction.
I fought a charging problem for a bit on my FSJ Cherokee. The stock resistor wire that told the alternator to charge was old and brittle. It would sometimes complete the circuit, other times not so much. Once I fixed that it worked great every time.
When the mechanic was talking about the brakes being “Amazing” he sounded like Marco talking about trail rides and food. Looks good Brad. A time machine.
LOL! Now I'm hungry!
so true! i caught that too! haha
Great video! Love the build. Let the leaf springs settle. Then point rear pinion 2-3 degrees (using shims) lower than it pointing directly at the transfer case, and use a double cardan driveshaft. This is due to pinion rotating upward, on load, for a leaf spring vehicle. And I agree with others that the front shackle angle looks way off. It should be 20-40 degrees forward depending on on-road, or off-road ride. Might consider shackle reversal, but either way might need to move spring perch in order to get optimal ride quality.
Notice both driveshafts offset to the passenger side, which means you have the full time transfer case. Either shaft could be the cause of the vibration. Love the stance!
I had a 77 Chief with a 3speed and Dana 20. The axles where set up the same way both offset to the right.
I think the crappy weld job on the one shaft is the main culprit. It looks like it was welded on the trail as an emergency
Having done some spring swaps on the garage floor, I can appreciate your decision to have a shop do it.
You can buy a vehicle or build the vehicle you want from scratch. I like building the vehicle you want, even though it does come with challenges. Looks like you have a fun build going there, look forward to seeing how it comes along.
Jason
Another great video!!!!!!! Nice to have professional help close by..... Looking Fantastic.
Thank you and I am very thankful for their help!
I've been looking forward to this build for what seems like an eternity. But It was worth the wait. Cheers to the guys over at Shift Autowerks.
Jerry is the man, great work doing all that in one day!
👍
Just a note on that block of wood trick you're supposed to put the shackle on it spin first and then as you line up the leaf spring you stretch it using the block of wood and then all you have to do is roll the shackle up and put the bolt in.
I had a 1982 Wagoneer, but sold it in the late 90s, not a spot of rust, 50K miles, beautiful, was dad in laws, and he babied it, oil changed every 2500 miles, cleaned, all fluids changed meticulously.
Great look, used that wood trick back in the 80’s, seen that problem with the brake fluid once before; here’s to the future ⭐️😎🤩
We were thankful for how easy that block of wood did the job! Thanks!
Great vid Brad. Need to get my wife's TJ into Shift and have some work done. Enjoying the Prickly Pear project and hope to see you out on the local trails.
Don't forget to replace your brake proportioning valve. Thanks for the great vids.
Where in the world did you ever find a 74 Jeep Cherokee, they had a reputation in the rust belt to rust away in no more than 6-8 years here in Northern Ohio. Buddy got his father's J10, just before I retired from the Navy in 93. It didn't get that many highway miles on it, it was a cared-for farm truck, and yes they do exist. We sat about restoring it, ended up doing a full frame off. Can say it was well built, but a real rust bucket. Got real good at frame rust repairs and sandblasting.
Love the old vehicle content, keep it coming! Currently lifting a K5 Blazer and battling similar 'old' vehicle issues. Recommend everything you can reasonably replace - do it when opportunity presents itself, i.e., shackles, bushings, etc. And...4" is a fairly high lift - keep the tire size moderate or new problems will surface. GOOD LUCK!!!
Loving this project, I've been resto-modding an 85 4runner for the last 3 years. Currently running OME leafs but had to use an add a leaf on the front and the back isnt quite sitting where I want it. Some custom deaver packs are on my wish list. Everything on old trucks takes 3 times longer than expected lol.
I’ve done this on the ground with my 79 Ramcharger. But that was 8 yrs ago. Engine/trans/T-case swap in 08-09, had a buddy’s lift for that. I just turned 50, a lift is in my future for sure.
I’m rewiring it now
When I did suspension work for a living, I generally started the shackles first and the spring eyes last. That usually worked better.
The springs will soften up and settle down a little bit in around 500-1000 miles of daily driving.
Ah the adventures (perils?) of a vintage restoration! This is just like my neighbor who is restoring a 1950s Chevy pickup. (we seem to be the mecca of vintage car restorations up here in La Crescenta) Every day is a new adventure in finding the most bizarre, rusted out, gunked up component buried in the back of the engine bay or up underneath the truck. Its always something that you'll never find a replacement for... so its expensive custom fabrication or restoration. It takes 20 years to finish the project and ends up costing way more than the vehicle is worth.
But its done for the love of the vehicle and the joy of the process!
Enjoy the ride, Brad. One day this will be your favorite Jeep! :)
I had a 77 Chef Cherokee. back in 90 to 99 totally awesome I miss her so bad. I now own a 97 Cherokee with a lot more plastic but it does have a few more creature comforts. I love them both and will probably stay with the Cherokee line till I die.
Hello Mr, dat Jeep starting to look wicked!!!
Oh yeah!
Good job Brad keeping old girl going. Thank you for the video too Don from Hope Idaho
With all the electrical gremlins that you have found, have you considered doing a new harness? Like something from Painless? I know that rewiring an entire vehicle is no small task, but it actually saved me a ton of time on my old vehicle that had similar electrical problems. I found so many problems in my old harness after I fully removed it that would have been a complete nightmare to track down individually.
I know it would involve some extra work… But a Popular Mod (did it on my CJ7) is to do a Reverse Shackle… It would help with your ride, and you can then address that Shackle Angle on the Front 🤔 👍
Your charging problem is likely the external voltage regulator--usually found on the interior of the passenger front wheel arch. They have a limited lifespan--I am on my third in 40 years with my '74 J-20. Symptoms were the same--including around 18v at times (not good!).
On a 'systems' note, the whole Jeep is indeed made of easily replaceable parts. However it was made as a system, and messing with the system causes unintended consequences. Lift kits cause bump steer, hard ride (unless you do a spring-over-axle), driveline fit and vibration, U-joint wear, increased fuel consumption (more aerodynamic drag), worse cooling (less under-hood suction due to the front axle now in full airflow on the highway), etc. 40 years with one of these rigs teaches that caution is often the better part of valor. But good luck--nice sounding rig too!
I'm doing a similar build on a 97 ZJ. I've owned 3 Wagoneers, and while I do miss them, I am happy to be working with coil springs.
As unique as that spring install was you should’ve installed the bushings and been done with it! Cool transformation.
Awesome video these classic Jeep videos are some of my favorite
Oh yeah.... Great job Devin!!!!
Had one of those back in the day. 4 inch lift.... New England salted roads killed the frame. Also, Semper Fi! Marine myself, active 82-88.
Great video! Like see detail about your vintage Jeep…even the issues. I have a 1969 Toyota Land Cruiser FJ55 so I know there is always something. Keep making the videos on this awesome truck. Can’t wait to see the big tires on it!
Hi TrailRecon-----I did not read the other comments but you can almost put money on it that the bouncy ride is all due to vertical shackles......been there done it. The angle needs to be about 30 to 45 degrees from the vertical. Now how you do that is the question. A combination of a longer shackle coupled with the mount that needs to be moved an inch or so inwards would fix you up . 1 mod leads to 2 more. :)
Your Cherokee looks great with the lift and stockish tires. I love an old school truck that sits high but doesn't necessarily have monster tires. I'd hate for you to cut the fenders but have fun and do what you want to do. It'll look good with the new tires too. When you tear apart the interior you should put in spray insulation and regular insulation on top to make it quieter.
We love the video Brad. Lots of fun. I enjoy doing that too. Fuel injection helps. Holley fuel injection sniper kit.
Can't wait to see you on the trail
The taller stance looks good! You're almost there with it.
Brad, I have a 72 J truck and fought a random no charge problem for a long time, two alternators, key switch, tore into the wiring harness and finally chased the alternators field exciter wire to a thermistor switch mounted to the grille by the Left Front headlight. On a cool morning or cold day it may or may not charge, I could pinch that thermistor switch between my thumb and index finger and in seconds it would close and start charging. The truck was equipped with an electric choke from the factory so possibly it was to delay the heating of the choke? On cold days I can't see how it would EVER warm up where it was mounted! Couldn't find any information about this in Jeep manuals or online so I just bypassed the thermistor and the Charging and Choke system work fine now!
I'd be worried that the spring hangers will flip back if you flex out the suspension.
You could always try less-strong springs and then use blocks to raise it up making up for any springs you have removed.
Looks good, though. Hopefully there aren't too many gremlins to chase down. I still think I'd look for a disk brake conversion kit for the rear.
I think you will find that the the alternator isn't the issue. Its the Motorola voltage regulator on the passenger side fender. These alternators were externally regulated. The rear springs are way easier to put on if you bolt the shackle to the post, and then just rotate it up to the spring once you have the spring pre-compressed.
15:12 I live in Canada, if we ran our shocks with bare shafts like that they would be pitted and rusted after one winter, we would need to put shock boots on our shocks here.
Starting the day just right! Truck is looking awesome. Cheers Chief!
Right on!
Trick I learned when assisting with bleeding brakes: I use one leg to pump, but the other to hold it. Shares the "load" on my muscles.
It looks awesome man! Can’t wait to see it with larger sized tires, it will then be perfect!
It feels real good when you know what you doing and everything comes together sometime it doesn't happen when you wanted but eventually you put it together , great video 👍
Just a heads up, Those shims in the rear spring packs can throw off your pinion angle and cause vibration. I have had different jeeps with various lifts and have never needed any shims to correct the angles. I would suggest removing those shims and driving it to see if the vibration goes away. Also look into swapping to the newer 78+ style 10si alternator and do away with the external regulated one
Love seeing the old stuff get more life. I hope you got the guys the proper flag for their uniform. I suppose it's the Vet in me noticing something like that.
I am feeling that desire for a lift in the shop. The rig looks great lifted.
I really have enjoyed watching your videos. Seeing your Jeep come to life is a fun adventure I feel I get to share with you. Look forward your next update.
Slow and Steady! it's looking good, Brad..in time it'll be a pretty capable trail rig I'm sure.
Looks AMAZING! Love the white letters on machined face wheels!
Looks great Brad and brought back vivid memories of the brake and suspension upgrades on my ‘68 Firebird
Look into shackle swap for the front. It should soften the ride, fix the shackle angle and replace the post mount. Did wonders on my old j4000 and 90 f250
It won’t get much softer. It’s a leaf suspension. More meat via tire, air down, and some really good shocks to rebound the leaves, can make it much better. Linking up and going coils is the best way, but they probably don’t have anything for that and you’d have to go custom $$$$$$$$$$. You should be good with meat and shocks, as well as airing down. At the end of the day, it’s a 50 year old truck. We tend to get snobby these days with out soft rides. I Drive my lifted 2000 F350 off road. Air down the 37s, and it’s not to bad. I just have to get my fillings replaced every year
Good call on having Shift do the install.
Oh ya, for the sake of my back and what would have been some stress it was absolutely worth having those guys take care of it!
Great video altho I did like the stock look can't wait to see the end project and yes you were smart to take that one into the shop dodged a bullet there🙂
It was be awesome to see a Trail Recon, Lifestyle Overland and Venture4wd vintage overland trip!
Those leaves would have been a bear to do on jack stands. Good call to have the shop do it. I normally like doing that part, but time, money and effort are all things that have to weigh into it.
I lifted my 83 waggy 3 1/2 inches with a spring lift. It was stiff in the front, not bad but it was worse in the rear. I think next time I'll try stock springs with a axle over up front and flipped shackle rear.
I love the new raised look - and those rims are fantastic looking!!!! I love that style. Want to find something like those form my 2011 Dodge Ram 2500.
Good evening,
since this is your first real AMC jeep. You notice how companies purchased parts, from whom had extra parts on the shelf.
if you'd like some excitement go back Kaiser age.
That's where the excitement starts.
Using that block of wood is a nice hack I don't think I would have thought about it even though watching it made me remember having seen it done before. Also that shows you how much the springs are going to settle.
Loving that classic look !!! You’ll be in the dirt soon!
Enjoy your videos! As you replace your charging system check all your ground connections. Old trucks have grounding gremlins. Hope to see you on the trail some day👍
Thanks! I'll be chasing a bunch of grounds, there are a few gremlins crawling around.
I'm on the lookout for a Cherokee Chief. It has some different fender clearances in the back I'm fond of. Same front basically though. If I get one, we are going wheeling Brad!
I had a similar issue on my 73 J-4600, and the parasitic draw was ironically coming from the external voltage regulator. It’s always something.
Looks great even with those tires
Take the inner and outer fenders off. Easy to do, and makes access so much easier. Getting to the alternator, etc. And, while you're in there, maybe take a look at the water pump if you haven't already. Buy the aluminum one, not cast iron. Better flow.
Another way to hook up the shackle is to use a Porta-Power with the chisle looking attachments on each end. You can use an old fashioned bumper jack with tubing, just crimp the ends to fit where the leaf rolls into a bushing eye.
The springs you ordered have thick leaves. For most spring shops, installers, and especially sales people they will sell you on spring packs that are stiff and call them heavy duty.
If you knew, you would have ordered spring packs with thinner leaves, about the original leaf thickness. Such a spring pack will likely have an extra one or two leaves to handle the added lift, but result is a much smoother softer ride.
When you install the new tires, air them to about 30 psi not what the side wall says or what the tire guy tells you. With 30 psi drive to a self-serve car wash that has a nice smooth concrete floor.
Drive the front tires through the stall to other end where the concrete is dry. Measure the tread of your new tire and measure the footprint it leaves.
The tire should tire tread and footprint ought to measure the same or the footprint ought to be about 1/4 inch less than the tire tread measurement. You will need to air down until the footprint is equal to the tread or about 1/4 inch shy. I air down 5 psi at a time on new tires from 30 psi. Make sure to measure the tread lugs that stick out the most.
You will see a bulge at the bottom of you tire, but remember that radial tires typically have bulge anyway. Once you have the front tires dialed in repeat the process on the rear tires. You will notice that the rear tires will need less psi than the front tires. That is because the front end is typically heavier, especially if you have a winch or other heavy accessories, such as a bumper constructed out 1/2 inch plate.
Ok, so a new bumper won't be 1/2 plate, but you get the idea, the new bumper will be heavier. And also. the factory bumpers are very light, they were designed mostly for looks. By airing down the tires as I have described you will experience a smooth ride and the tires will wear from shoulder to shoulder as opposed to wearing mostly in the center. Your tires will last longer when the entire tread meets the pavement.
On my CJ5 I run 33" ATX tires with 14 psi front and 11 psi rear with no ill effects. My CJ5 has a lift with thin leaf springs and rides very smooth. Plus, when I get off the pavement I have not had to air down yet. I have driven on soggy muddy trails, and now we have snow I can play in with no problems.
My girlfriend's long bed MJ runs 15 psi front and 12 psi rear with no problems. It rides very well and very smooth compared to other trucks about the same size that ride like they are on boulders. I have aired down here truck to 6 psi on rocky river bottoms.
I make a point to make sure that the rim is 2" narrower than the tire. For example, a 33X12.50X16 I run an 8" wide rim. I have been doing this for decades with no problems. Tire guys will argue against the practice, but whose truck is it and do they go offroad like you and me?? Probably not.
One last point is to measure the tread depth before you move the truck with new tires, measure the tread depth on tire shop's lot. Measure the inside of the thread, the center, and the outside of the tread and monitor wear every so often, you choose the milage. That will give you a clue as to whether you need to air up or down, or leave it as is and continue monitoring.
Monitor your air pressure often. I checked the pressure on my tires after a 45 minute drive today at highway speeds and both front and rear pressures went up 3 psi. I just left at that.
Ok, I think that is enough for now. I yield back the soap box before someone yanks me off with a shepherd's hook!!
Excellent information, thank you so much for sharing!
Old school mechanic told me to take a piece of chalk make a make across all the tires drive it a few miles and see if you have to air down or up and that will be your tire pressure .....
@@freddieweimann3602 Good one! Another way is to roll some paint on the tread and lower the painted portion onto a cardboard. I would use a piece of sheet metal, backside of formica, or other flat material. Cardboard can give you a false reading at the shoulders because the footprint will roll the edges of your reading.
Cardboard that is not corrugated works best.
But I like the chalk trick.
You can get bulk copper line. I've done that with a pair of XJ Cherokees because the salt in Illinois rusts them so badly. My WJ has a stainless brake line added by a previous owner.