I am just curious, when ATC hand you over to other controllers during flight following with approach , how do you guys communicate? Via phone or special messages ? I requested flight following the other day with SoCal 4500 to stay under B at 5000, he then asked me to switch frequencies, the next controller than clears me to 6.5 clear to B and own nav to wrong airport , I heard my call sign but everything else wasn’t what I requested so I questioned wad that for 99SP, he did what this controller does “you got a listen up man yes clear trough B 6.5 and wrong airpot, it ruined my day , so I was wondering how do the first controller send him my request? Thank you
if i flew there, i would have reported it, and not accepted his behavior IN ANY WAY. This ATC needs to be removed from the radio, re-trained and or dismissed. this is unacceptable.
I'm a student pilot and if I ever encountered an ATC like this, I'd ask for a phone number so I could call and have a conversation with them after. You're right, it makes me not want to talk to them.
The phone number to the tower is public information. Don’t clog up the freq just to prove a point. Maintain your professionalism and handle it off air.
My instructor, who has been instructing for 35 yrs, once got chippy with an ATC who was showing attitude towards me, a student pilot, while doing pattern work. I felt like mommy and daddy were fighting and I couldn’t get out of the room.
Had the unpleasant experience with him last week. New pilot 100 hrs in now did my training at a non- towered air port. I know I did the right thing but in the moment i Was second guessing my self and wasn't a great feeling.
So this is exactly the type of thing I was talking about. New pilot now second guessing themselves at a “busy” airport because the controller has a bad attitude. A recipe for disaster!
Crazy that isn’t it? Haha Yea man I feel a video highlighting safety is more beneficial than a report. If I helped one student have the courage to continue to speak up on the radio then I’ve done my job.
I understand ATC has a lot on their plate and it's very stressful, but some of them forget that as pilots we also have a lot going on. He's berating your student while he's in the middle of a touch and go, one of the most common phases of flight where accidents can occur. It's distracting to have to respond to a controller being like this while you're in the middle of taking off. He was 100% correct to ask for a clarification. I mean, realistically, would the controller prefer the pilots fly while being uncertain or just clarifying before making a mistake?
Agree with you 100%. Many years ago had a controller exactly like that at Van Nuys, and when he told my student and I to expedite crosswind after a touch & go ,I told him I was not until I see the traffic he told to go around because he got too close ( he was not ahead and above where he should be), the controller barked back "turn immediately, he's well behind you!!!" I was looking out the rear window at this time, I said negative not turning till I see him. At that same moment I see his right main tire pass only about 7 or 8 feet above the front left side windshield, so close I could read Goodrich on it's side and I think the psi required. If I would have let my student turn when he "barked" we would have collided. My regret to this day was that I didn't file a written complaint about the every day attitude of that controller. You might consider that. CFIAM JOE COVINO Lake Havasu, Arizona.
"berating when asking for clarification", well put. It's so dangerous to punish people for that. I'm surprised we haven't seen that in more NTSB incidents. I've been flying for, like, 3-4 years and I still avoid a tower in town because the one controller just ruins it for everyone.
Great vlog. The importance of ATC and pilots working together can’t be over stressed. Good pilots asking clarification questions should be given respect by ATC controllers. Luckily, I’ve had nothing but positive interactions here in the Tucson area. The fact that pilots are asking for clarifications means they are actively trying to clear traffic. ATC doesn’t have a monopoly on traffic clearance, so questions need to be asked.
As an air traffic controller and having given many tower tours, one of the items I stress to student pilots is that if you're in doubt, ask. I may get annoyed, but it's better to ask than do something wrong. Now, to be fair, there are times when it's obvious someone isn't listening to the frequency and that is unsafe. For instance, if you hear ATC issue a traffic advisory to another aircraft, unless you are declaring an emergency, please let them respond.
You are on point man! There should be zero issues when we ask them to “please say again”. Their scope of work starts with safety and ends with safety. If WE ask for clarification is because I want to be SAFE! Plus, our taxes provide the government funds which support their employment.
I never usually comment on videos, but I couldn’t help myself here. I watch all of your videos when they come out, and on this one I just had to really say thanks for sharing. I’ve had my PPL for 5 months and I remember one of the earliest hurdles in my training was talking with ATC. If this ever happened, I’d be mortified. Awesome that you are bringing awareness to it and promoting making talking with ATC a safe and easy thing to do. Thanks again for sharing!
I hope the FSDO see's this ...... I have been lucky and every controller interaction in my short career has been awesome. I even had a controller clear me for the option at KMFR, I didnt clarify I was a light sport He didnt ask. When he realized he asked me if I could make a short approach as an Alaska Air 737 was holding short waiting on me. My CFI said throttle up and abeam the numbers in downwind slip it around the corner to land ....... was one my favorite landings in training and the Tower commended me along with Pilots in the 737 saying "I wish we could slip like that"
I think this controller is maybe a little famous. When I was training circa 2017/18 ish', my instructor told me about an ISM controller he had rounds with, and stated we can go anywhere but there. Instructor was a seasoned pilot with thousands of hours flying big tin into ORD, BOS, MIA, etc. Have heard same sentiment from others about ISM. Can a pilot(s) file grievance with FAA or, does everyone have to wait until there is a crash.
Most KMLB controllers are kinda like that, get pissed off so easily, but at least they don't mumble. I remembered I was flying with my instructor and we went to Melbourne. Tower clears us for a stop-and-go. We land, stop for 3 seconds, then takeoff again. Then tower angrily comes on saying we didn't do as instructed. I calmly came on saying no we stopped then went, he then argued, no we didn't. My instrucor got pissed off at the controller but I told him don't worry about it, we never got a deviation so it's not a big deal
I started flying out of a busy Class D airport in the NYC area and never once had an issue with them. Clear, concise, to the point. Here’s a guy at ISM who clearly can’t handle it. Maybe needs to be transferred to a quieter Class D.
I’m a 126 hr pilot in the middle of IFR training, I use Lightspeed headsets and record every flight that I fly, I had an episode w/ATC and was able to brief it and I was in the wrong, a misunderstanding, great training moment. It’s nice to be able to listen over and over to learn!!
@@ronandersen3336 A special app then? My david clark has bluetooth and connects to my [android] phone, but I have only ever used it for making a phone call to get IFR clearance. I also have an iPad with bluetooth but never bothered to try it with the headset.
I'm also an air traffic controller and it grinds my gears, to borrow a phrase from Peter Griffin, when controllers use such aggressive tones with pilots unnecessarily. I've been doing this 24 years now and, have I ever gotten aggressive or harsh? Yes, but only in the most extreme circumstances. But I'm generally a fan of aviation and I enjoy helping new pilots learn and will go as far as to say I'm the most patient controller at my facility. Just last week I had four Jet East students come in back to back to back to back, and boy did I have some teaching to do, but we got through it with nary a cross word or interaction. I've got one pretty funny story from that, that's always a benefit. I completely agree with tower tours, they can be hugely beneficial, though I would add that interested pilots only try to do them M-F when tower management is present, as management is not always present at these smaller facilities and them not being there can make things a bit tougher to manage...getting people in and out of a secure facility, for example. Anyway, good video, sorry for your experience, and I will continue to do my part by chiding my colleagues when they are unnecessarily gruff with pilots, particularly student pilots. Just one more thing, if any instructors out there do not teach their students about reduced runway separation, I would encourage you to do so. I find many students in my area (North Florida) do not know about and understand reduced runway separation and often go around at times unnecessarily, and a go around at a busy facility can be somewhat unpleasant to say the least. I try to bring reduced runway separation up whenever student pilots visit my tower. Thanks again!
Now I KIND of want to fly to Kissimmee from Apopka and have this controller try and talk to me that way. I can promise I won't be as kind as the student.This absolutely flys in the face of flight safety! Total BS!
Great message and agree with you 100%. The controller needs a good talking to. I couldn't understand a word that guy says on the initial instructions either, and would have asked for a clarification every time as well. And then especially after ATC made an error on the traffic pattern as well. That's how mid air collisions get made. Glad no one got hurt b/c of this mess. PS. Love your videos. Keep it up.
We have been trained to make the calls clear and concise. No matter how busy your airspace, make sure the correct information is passed over the first time. All he is doing is making more work for himself and therefore making it unsafe. If I decided to fly over there from the UK, I would be more than happy to piss him off and ask to repeat all his instructions until it is clear. Keep up the good work.
Vero Beach has a guy like this… on Live ATC you can hear the entire area get tensed up within 3 minutes of his shift starting. If you are inbound and hear him on frequency, be ready for amended clearance, runway changes after being already cleared, and cross flight path runway assignments… students nick named him ‘Angry Rob’. Don’t think that his actual name though.
Omg remember him! I flew into Vero on a round robin X/C now granted the airspace was hella busy, but he and a pilot were going at it over the radio! I made sure to really listen to the radio and be really on point to avoid stirring the pot lol.
There is apparently an AIM recommendation for to speak at 100WPM. I've personally measured almost double that. I understand things get hectic but double speed is out of hand for some people, including me.
As a student pilot, I know I am nervous with ATC, but the people at KILM are awesome. When I soloed and mentioned that I was a student pilot, they always slowed their comms down for me and ensured that I was repeating back and understanding everything correctly. With that being said, I do remember one instance that we (my instructor and I) had a tight window and needed to do a short field landing. There was a jet on final and they had to go around even though we taxied off the runway in enough time, but safety first. I felt bad as the pilot for having to have that passenger jet do a go around, but my instructor told me not to worry about it since it should have been the ATC to have us extend our downwind and let the jet go ahead of us.
As someone based in Kissimmee, I know this guy. lol Sometimes you can tell he doesn't even want to bother with you in the pattern. I always wave though when taxiing by to let them know I'm friendly and appreciate them haha. Take your boy to Albert Whitted in ST Pete. That guy can be a straight up jerk to people and everyone knows him. Now I want you to host a KISM tower tour :) Could get spicy.
In 25 years, I thought I'd seen (and heard) possibly every variation in RT standards. This ATCO needs a good talking-to from his line manager/Standards Officer. My recommendation, for what it's worth - don't rise to the bait at the time. Focus on your ANC, unless it's becoming problematic for the student, in which case terminate the lesson. Not ideal for the student, by any means, but better than pushing a difficult situation when emotions are becoming involved. Definitely file on the incident afterwards, so that the recordings can be reviewed by someone in a position to do something about fixing the problem that this controller is creating. The last thing we need is the disconnect that you've described here @LewDixAviation. Best wishes, btw, from EGGP. Keep up the good work
Lewis Im so happy you highlighted this. I did all my training at KISM and this guy is always like this and creates so many problems. This is a video I hope the FAA sees so they can finally do something and help all the pilots there and remove him before he gets someone killed. He's been like this for years.
I’m glad you appreciate my efforts in making this. I used to instruct at ISM before this controller was there and never encountered anything like this.
@@LewDixAviation I spent the better part of a year dealing with him. Now I stay away as much as possible. Hope to see you up at FA83 again one of these days.
We have a controller like this at the airport I work at. She will get onto students over the smallest mistakes and ties up the frequency by going on and on about it. It makes our newer students even more nervous about talking on the radio. It frustrates us instructors as well especially when she tries to lecture us about things that she doesn’t know about (hint: She GOOGLED it).
There was a controller out at KSQL (San Carlos, CA) that had the same issue. It blew up the internet with all of his radio calls. Totally unacceptable to berate pilots. We need to work together. Could be worth reporting to the FSDO.
A step before that is to just ask for a number from the person and explain to them your situation. Especially with Lewdix flying there for years it might give the guy a bit of a wake up call. He might have a realization. If not and he’s hostile then to the FSDO.
It's a shame that there are people in such an important and crucial position to aviation safety that just seem to hate their jobs. Doesn't fill me with confidence sometimes.
Thanks for posting this. Thankfully in the 17years of amateur flying I have never encountered an AT Controller who has not been anything other than calm and helpful. This fellar is clearly in a job that he hates dealing with people he hates and probably should be working in an abattoir.
As an instructor also in the Orlando area I have also experienced this too much. Mostly with some of the approach guys. God forbid when there’s more than 4 aircraft on their frequency
Similar situation happened to me on my very first experience with a towered airport,in Worcester Massachusetts. The ATC was frustrated that I didn't give her the current atis, then she got frustrated that I asked her to repeat the taxiway instructions and then got frustrated that I didn't immediately respond to her giving me departure clearance. She had the worst attitude with a whiney voice and my cfi just kept telling me,to not let it get to me and just focus on what I was doing. He asked what I wanted to do next and I said to just return to our airport. I completely understand. It made me second guess myself and keep wondering wtf was I doing in the airplane,was I even ready to do this etc.
Some years ago, I made three trips to Florida for some holiday rental flying, based at Kissimmee. Never having flown in the US before that and aside from other differences to be aware of, I had heard that US controllers tend to speak quite fast but, on the three occasions that I visited, I had no problems with comms, indeed, the whole experience was a very pleasant one and I found the controllers to be very friendly and helpful which, as a visiting low hours Brit only served to put my mind at ease rather than the reverse. On one occasion, tracking south along the east coast from Titusville, outside of Orlando International's airspace (deliberately, of course!), Orlando ATC Flight Following called me and asked if I would like a direct routing through their overhead back to Kissimmee which I happily accepted! I suspect that it wasn't the guy referenced in this video! If any controller has a reputation for the type of behaviour quite rightly exposed in this video, as opposed to it being a rare occurrence, then one might seriously question why such a person should be allowed to remain in their post, for all of the reasons expressed. I doubt that any such controller will ever crash and die whilst sitting in a chair on terra firma.
From a safety point of view. I would report the controller to his boss. Its not a good environment to be in when you have something like this happening.
Thank you for making this video and highlighting this! Controllers are meant to keep people safe, and this hostile attitude from the controller is not safe whatsoever.
Air Traffic Control as a whole are very professional and are there to help you, I've been flying since 1986 and have never been talked to like that. I appreciate what ATC does everyday to keep us safe. Lew, you are absolutely correct. If that particular controller is that unhappy with what he is doing then he needs to find another profession. His attitude could quickly become a safety issue, especially with a new pilot.
I did a lot of my flight training at Vero Beach and there was one controller, hopefully he’s fired by now, that was a complete jerk to the students. We knew him around the flight school as “grumpy”. It didn’t bother me but, really highlighted how unprofessional a single bad controller can be. Also, how one small interaction like that can make a newer pilot lose focus and the proverbial first “domino” of an accident has started to fall
I sent you a message on your website about taking my daughter on a discovery flight and me a lesson while we are in the beach!! I love your channel and my daughter really wants you to take her!!!
When I was doing my instrument training I did a flight to KBKL in Cleveland. Me and a controller had a misunderstanding about taxi instructions after an initial strict tone being set which led me to not question his phraseology. This ended up with them raising their voice at me on freq while I was taxiing after I asked "what would you like me to do, sir?"... Definitely did not have fun for the next 40 mins on the way home, and this is from someone who has always been confident with ATC. Other people at my flight school have had issues with this tower as well. It's a real issue regarding ATC vs pilots when the tone is set poorly and I think you summarized it very well.
Great podcast Lewis! I was wondering if you could expand on any post-flight action you took about this situation. Did you call the tower supervisor or FSDO? Did you file a NASA report?
I had a mumbler yesterday on a practice RNAV. I’m on final into 30 and he starts mumbling after calling my tail number about a piper Cherokee circling to land on 34. I thought he wanted me to circle to land on 34. He knew I was on a practice approach so you think he would want to help me out and not boomhauer his instructions. As always, great video Lewis.
This is about as respectful of a criticism of an ATC that I’ve ever seen. I 100% agree that he is a risk to safety and the FAA needs to act. The KSQL controller who also acted like this is no longer there by the way. I hope he’s nowhere else either where he can affect safety.
I didn’t want to make it a destruction of his character. Instead I wanted to highlight the danger this sort of attitude poses. Glad it came across well!
@@LewDixAviation I think that the reluctance to even complain about legitimate issues is problematic in aviation. Doing so in a civil and professional way is the right way to do it though, and you’ve provided a good example here. At the very least, the FAA should focus on the fact that controllers with concerns like this should be kept away from airports with heavy student pilot activity. If they don’t want to damage his career, fine, but he can be based somewhere else. Professional pilots know how to deal with cranky ATC. Student situations are much more dangerous.
So well handled . Now the question is , is this controler going to take it on board and see the big safety picture and change his tune , if he isn’t , then definitely suspended as it is not safe at all period .
I trained at KJQF, the controllers are really good and patient. There’s a lot of training at the airport. I made a mistake on first solo, didn’t get scolded, he worked me through it and everything worked out. Class acts in out tower, makes it easier on the pilots
Just as we are supposed to check our emotions before getting into the plane, it's the same after you have been welcomed to the sky. This sort of stuff effects everyone differently, but if this overly stresses someone out or makes them angry they can be largely distracted from flying the plane and have some major issues. Not to mention that you just cant understand him, "Boomhauer" had me laughing 😂. There was an accident report I was watching about a lady being tossed around by ATC at a major airport, they re-sequenced her multiple times to give priority to commercial airlines when it would have been safer to let her land and have them go around if they were 2nd in and too fast. She was obviously getting very stressed and flustered from her tone of voice, wasn't standing up for herself with the ATC to get what she needed, and it ended with 4(?) people dead. The opposite is true with some incidents where ATC help people with emergencies, the recording of the student pilot who lost a landing gear assembly and was kept calm by the extremely nice controller got her back on track and focusing on flying the airplane. If this guy constantly has an attitude or can't be understood I'd probably ask for a number. It goes so far beyond just being polite or not. Unsure how he can hold that job doing what he is doing.
That’s a perfect scenario. I’d hate to see how this guy would treat a student who’s declaring an emergency (or experiencing one and too afraid to declare it). I’m about to take my check ride this weekend and I can say that I do NOT want to fly into this field. Makes me appreciate my tower people here even more!
Outa Gateway? I’ve done patterns one day there, my instructor said they are picky about calls being correct, but I guess I haven’t seen all the personalities there yet.
Can confirm, my flight school literally has a special briefing in regards to the short temper of their controllers. They are very good at their job, just an attitude is all
It must surely say somewhere in the air traffic controller's manual that any plums must be removed from the controllers mouth before operating the radio?
kVRB - vero beach .... Worst controllers in Florida... very unprofessional. Unfortunately they are untouchable and don't care... I LOVE THE AIRPORT, but the controllers are extremely unprofessional... I hate going in there... They suck!
Great video! Very important! I’ve been fortunate to have great experiences with ATC. That would have deflated my mood as well. As you said, stand your ground and be sure and be SAFE!
Brilliant podcast, absolutely correct. Last thing you need is someone who’s meant to be helping you, berrating you for trying to maintain safety. Unfortunately have had a couple of controllers like this in the UK.
Oh my… some people just make me tired - even more than because of my MS-fatique. But I was wondering if you couldn‘t have giving this dude a number to call after he is finished ATCing?
I am a cfi out of kism and I remember once this guy did the same to me. i was doing touch and goes in the 150 with a student and it was somewhat busy so he told up to extend our downwind, then as he was telling us to turn base he was stepped on by someone else. someone else on the pattern even said 'blocked" so i waited a bit since i was not sure it was for us but could guess it was since we were the only ones that should be turing base at the time. and did not hear anything from him for about 10 seconds so i asked him if that last call was for us and he came back with the same attitude, and telling us that we need to listen and then told us to that we now have to do a 360 because we did not lisien. needless to say that landing turned into a full stop.
I had a much worse experience with a controller who was either having a bad day or is just an A-hole by nature, so after the third radio call of her yelling at me I said cancel my landing request and left the pattern. Later I called her supervisor who immediately started making excuses for her and explaining how they are short handed. I still hear her from time to time being the same A-hole to others so nothing changed. I think the problem is a shortage of people who want to do that job so they have to put up with subpar help. My advice is like you said we are all adults trying to do our best to keep the sky safe so if you run into such a miserable person just stand your ground don’t get upset and conduct yourself professionally knowing they don’t have any authority over you so their opinion of you doesn’t matter and if necessary remove yourself from the situation and come back later. If you have the time later call and make a complaint but it’s unlikely something will happen. Don’t argue with stupid people, they drag you down to their level of stupidity and beat you with experience. 99.9% of ATC are good helpful people don’t let the oddball turn you off.
Fettler! Be professional. Don't post your thoughts. Talk to your ATC colleague. Work together? One professional to another? The control tower is on YOUR airfield where YOU work and you post here instead of sorting it locally? YOU don't help. YOU reinforce controller / ATC contention with this post. You're the professional now. Go sort it. IT'S WITH YOU
You cut out a really important part at 9:22 that was in your full video with the student. The controller said left traffic but right turn out in the same sentence. The student didn't forget, the controller made a call that makes literally 0 sense.
Repeating back the instructions is like signing a contract saying you understand. Do not repeat anything if your not sure. Simply ask to “say again” The moment you make a mistake they will be quick to report you to the FAA so get all the confirmation you need. Just like you have some pilots that don’t belong in the sky you have controllers that don’t belong in the tower. I would never take my students to do a solo to that airport. Screw that fool probably hates his miserable existence and takes it out on the job. I would paying a visit to the tower to let him know or calling the FSDO.
This reminds me of my Instrument Check ride I wrote every instruction down and then reverified just to verify What I heard, what I wrote and what I understood. Dpe didn't say a word other than to confirm. Made the whole situation a lot more comfortable.
I had some troubles with a grumpy delta controller on one of my solo xc. I asked for a number to call and talk. Turned out the guy wasn’t a pilot and was a contract controller and things improved.
Im not sure what the right course of action would be here. But I’d probably call the FSDO and ask where I could file a formal complaint. Having the video/audio file to attach as well would be awesome too. How is he gonna slur into the mic, get pissed when somebody doesn’t understand, then get pissed when someone asks for clarification after he gave an incorrect instruction just a moment prior? Karen’s belong arguing over expire coupons, not directing air traffic. (I understand ATC is critically understaffed nationwide. But if this guy is fed up with life, maybe it’s time for a career change or to call fatigued and let someone else handle it.)
This is my home airport… he isn’t always like that but… he often is lol As a low hour student it def can be stressful. And it’s really not that busy of an airport so I don’t understand why he’s like that.
06MA Control... Im gonna need a number... lemme know when you have it to give. - I would totally call him when I landed. I get it, everyone has an off day, and perhaps he should have taken the day off, but you are absolutely right. His tone alone deters any further interaction compromising safety. PERIOD. Thanks for the highlight, and maybe he will see/hear this podcast and realize he can do better.
Obviously ATC has final say but if it's my first time to that airport and I've studied the sectional, I'm going to be thinking right patterns on 15 or 6 since that's what is on the chart. Even more reason to double check he wanted left traffic.
ATP, CFII, 9 type ratings from Bae3201 to 737…16 countries, many many hours. The point of this isn’t to squeeze my own accordion, but to bolster my point that I’m about to make. The point is that even though NY Center doesn’t do this (yeah they get a little sharp and exasperated but its delivered in a way that makes the point but still has a little dare I say, humor in doing it), manage things better even with their volume. Southern California….SNA, ONT etc. These controllers juggle us airlines and the bugsmashers at the same airports with everything from same runways to intersecting runways and do it with efficiency and less homilies than this little airport has. Maybe he needs a Snickers
File a complaint on the controller. He needs some attention from his management. Thanks for posting Lew.
I am just curious, when ATC hand you over to other controllers during flight following with approach , how do you guys communicate? Via phone or special messages ?
I requested flight following the other day with SoCal 4500 to stay under B at 5000, he then asked me to switch frequencies, the next controller than clears me to 6.5 clear to B and own nav to wrong airport , I heard my call sign but everything else wasn’t what I requested so I questioned wad that for 99SP, he did what this controller does “you got a listen up man yes clear trough B 6.5 and wrong airpot, it ruined my day , so I was wondering how do the first controller send him my request?
Thank you
@@garikbabayan Normally phone I think
if i flew there, i would have reported it, and not accepted his behavior IN ANY WAY.
This ATC needs to be removed from the radio, re-trained and or dismissed. this is unacceptable.
As an air traffic controller, I am so embarrassed! Nice job with your explanation with regard to safety and communication.
I know you're one of the good ones! This is a rare example of a controller doing something I don't agree with. I haven't come across it very often.
Why didn't you call the tower
I'm a student pilot and if I ever encountered an ATC like this, I'd ask for a phone number so I could call and have a conversation with them after. You're right, it makes me not want to talk to them.
The phone number to the tower is public information. Don’t clog up the freq just to prove a point. Maintain your professionalism and handle it off air.
My instructor, who has been instructing for 35 yrs, once got chippy with an ATC who was showing attitude towards me, a student pilot, while doing pattern work. I felt like mommy and daddy were fighting and I couldn’t get out of the room.
That’s a good instructor!
…Possible controller deviation
😂
no possible.. they should be re-trained and or dismissed
His continuing to bitch about it ties up the radio even longer!
Exactly 😂
It reminded me of when my mom would yell at me as a kid for hours and then she would come back 20 minutes later to start again
Had the unpleasant experience with him last week. New pilot 100 hrs in now did my training at a non- towered air port. I know I did the right thing but in the moment i Was second guessing my self and wasn't a great feeling.
So this is exactly the type of thing I was talking about. New pilot now second guessing themselves at a “busy” airport because the controller has a bad attitude. A recipe for disaster!
"Departing the Hostile airspace...Six Zero Mike Alpha" Boomhauer! I needed that today!
😂
Yes Boomhauer was first thought 😂
dangolairficlers
Controllers at O’Hare don’t even talk to me like that. I’m glad you chose not to interact with that wanker and instead do a video on it. Well done!
Crazy that isn’t it? Haha Yea man I feel a video highlighting safety is more beneficial than a report. If I helped one student have the courage to continue to speak up on the radio then I’ve done my job.
I understand ATC has a lot on their plate and it's very stressful, but some of them forget that as pilots we also have a lot going on. He's berating your student while he's in the middle of a touch and go, one of the most common phases of flight where accidents can occur. It's distracting to have to respond to a controller being like this while you're in the middle of taking off. He was 100% correct to ask for a clarification. I mean, realistically, would the controller prefer the pilots fly while being uncertain or just clarifying before making a mistake?
Agree with you 100%. Many years ago had a controller exactly like that at Van Nuys, and when he told my student and I to expedite crosswind after a touch & go ,I told him I was not until I see the traffic he told to go around because he got too close ( he was not ahead and above where he should be), the controller barked back "turn immediately, he's well behind you!!!" I was looking out the rear window at this time, I said negative not turning till I see him. At that same moment I see his right main tire pass only about 7 or 8 feet above the front left side windshield, so close I could read Goodrich on it's side and I think the psi required. If I would have let my student turn when he "barked" we would have collided. My regret to this day was that I didn't file a written complaint about the every day attitude of that controller. You might consider that. CFIAM JOE COVINO Lake Havasu, Arizona.
Oh my gosh, this is absolutely rude and unprofessional. You are 100% correct that this is a safety hazard, and needs to be reported to the FAA
"berating when asking for clarification", well put. It's so dangerous to punish people for that. I'm surprised we haven't seen that in more NTSB incidents.
I've been flying for, like, 3-4 years and I still avoid a tower in town because the one controller just ruins it for everyone.
Great vlog. The importance of ATC and pilots working together can’t be over stressed. Good pilots asking clarification questions should be given respect by ATC controllers. Luckily, I’ve had nothing but positive interactions here in the Tucson area. The fact that pilots are asking for clarifications means they are actively trying to clear traffic. ATC doesn’t have a monopoly on traffic clearance, so questions need to be asked.
Man, now I want to do a super-duper-long cross country to ISM just to troll tf out of that guy. :D
😂
Will head over from KVDF
As an air traffic controller and having given many tower tours, one of the items I stress to student pilots is that if you're in doubt, ask. I may get annoyed, but it's better to ask than do something wrong. Now, to be fair, there are times when it's obvious someone isn't listening to the frequency and that is unsafe. For instance, if you hear ATC issue a traffic advisory to another aircraft, unless you are declaring an emergency, please let them respond.
You are on point man! There should be zero issues when we ask them to “please say again”. Their scope of work starts with safety and ends with safety. If WE ask for clarification is because I want to be SAFE! Plus, our taxes provide the government funds which support their employment.
I never usually comment on videos, but I couldn’t help myself here. I watch all of your videos when they come out, and on this one I just had to really say thanks for sharing. I’ve had my PPL for 5 months and I remember one of the earliest hurdles in my training was talking with ATC. If this ever happened, I’d be mortified. Awesome that you are bringing awareness to it and promoting making talking with ATC a safe and easy thing to do. Thanks again for sharing!
Thank you for commenting man. I’m glad you enjoyed this one. Anything I can do to help the aviation community!
I hope the FSDO see's this ...... I have been lucky and every controller interaction in my short career has been awesome. I even had a controller clear me for the option at KMFR, I didnt clarify I was a light sport He didnt ask. When he realized he asked me if I could make a short approach as an Alaska Air 737 was holding short waiting on me. My CFI said throttle up and abeam the numbers in downwind slip it around the corner to land ....... was one my favorite landings in training and the Tower commended me along with Pilots in the 737 saying "I wish we could slip like that"
I think this controller is maybe a little famous. When I was training circa 2017/18 ish', my instructor told me about an ISM controller he had rounds with, and stated we can go anywhere but there. Instructor was a seasoned pilot with thousands of hours flying big tin into ORD, BOS, MIA, etc. Have heard same sentiment from others about ISM. Can a pilot(s) file grievance with FAA or, does everyone have to wait until there is a crash.
Most KMLB controllers are kinda like that, get pissed off so easily, but at least they don't mumble. I remembered I was flying with my instructor and we went to Melbourne. Tower clears us for a stop-and-go. We land, stop for 3 seconds, then takeoff again. Then tower angrily comes on saying we didn't do as instructed. I calmly came on saying no we stopped then went, he then argued, no we didn't. My instrucor got pissed off at the controller but I told him don't worry about it, we never got a deviation so it's not a big deal
Why no repercussions for ATC when they act like this? I agree 100% with Lewdix!
most towers are contract towers
One word UNIONS
Unions and government workers
@@bubbaman12289 yeah let's pay them less, that'll make them happier
I started flying out of a busy Class D airport in the NYC area and never once had an issue with them. Clear, concise, to the point. Here’s a guy at ISM who clearly can’t handle it. Maybe needs to be transferred to a quieter Class D.
I’m a 126 hr pilot in the middle of IFR training, I use Lightspeed headsets and record every flight that I fly, I had an episode w/ATC and was able to brief it and I was in the wrong, a misunderstanding, great training moment. It’s nice to be able to listen over and over to learn!!
How do you record it? Special equipment or somehow recording on your phone with blutooth?
The headsets sync up with the Bluetooth on the IPhone, only available with the Lightspeed headsets
@@ronandersen3336 A special app then? My david clark has bluetooth and connects to my [android] phone, but I have only ever used it for making a phone call to get IFR clearance. I also have an iPad with bluetooth but never bothered to try it with the headset.
I'm also an air traffic controller and it grinds my gears, to borrow a phrase from Peter Griffin, when controllers use such aggressive tones with pilots unnecessarily. I've been doing this 24 years now and, have I ever gotten aggressive or harsh? Yes, but only in the most extreme circumstances. But I'm generally a fan of aviation and I enjoy helping new pilots learn and will go as far as to say I'm the most patient controller at my facility. Just last week I had four Jet East students come in back to back to back to back, and boy did I have some teaching to do, but we got through it with nary a cross word or interaction. I've got one pretty funny story from that, that's always a benefit. I completely agree with tower tours, they can be hugely beneficial, though I would add that interested pilots only try to do them M-F when tower management is present, as management is not always present at these smaller facilities and them not being there can make things a bit tougher to manage...getting people in and out of a secure facility, for example. Anyway, good video, sorry for your experience, and I will continue to do my part by chiding my colleagues when they are unnecessarily gruff with pilots, particularly student pilots. Just one more thing, if any instructors out there do not teach their students about reduced runway separation, I would encourage you to do so. I find many students in my area (North Florida) do not know about and understand reduced runway separation and often go around at times unnecessarily, and a go around at a busy facility can be somewhat unpleasant to say the least. I try to bring reduced runway separation up whenever student pilots visit my tower. Thanks again!
Now I KIND of want to fly to Kissimmee from Apopka and have this controller try and talk to me that way. I can promise I won't be as kind as the student.This absolutely flys in the face of flight safety! Total BS!
I wish I was down there I would join you lol.
You’re lucky. The guy I get at Apopka is always really chill.
@@joeangiello9784 Apopka in non-towered
Great topic and something no pilot should be exposed to when asking for clarification!
You do an amazing service for the industry and GA. Appreciate the content you share and helping everyone learn and be safe.
Thank you so much man!
Great message and agree with you 100%. The controller needs a good talking to. I couldn't understand a word that guy says on the initial instructions either, and would have asked for a clarification every time as well. And then especially after ATC made an error on the traffic pattern as well. That's how mid air collisions get made. Glad no one got hurt b/c of this mess. PS. Love your videos. Keep it up.
You’re exactly right. That’s how mid air collisions happen. Deter people from asking the question and risk is raised. Thanks for you support 🙌🏻
We have been trained to make the calls clear and concise. No matter how busy your airspace, make sure the correct information is passed over the first time. All he is doing is making more work for himself and therefore making it unsafe. If I decided to fly over there from the UK, I would be more than happy to piss him off and ask to repeat all his instructions until it is clear. Keep up the good work.
Vero Beach has a guy like this… on Live ATC you can hear the entire area get tensed up within 3 minutes of his shift starting. If you are inbound and hear him on frequency, be ready for amended clearance, runway changes after being already cleared, and cross flight path runway assignments… students nick named him ‘Angry Rob’. Don’t think that his actual name though.
Omg remember him! I flew into Vero on a round robin X/C now granted the airspace was hella busy, but he and a pilot were going at it over the radio! I made sure to really listen to the radio and be really on point to avoid stirring the pot lol.
There is apparently an AIM recommendation for to speak at 100WPM. I've personally measured almost double that. I understand things get hectic but double speed is out of hand for some people, including me.
As a student pilot, I know I am nervous with ATC, but the people at KILM are awesome. When I soloed and mentioned that I was a student pilot, they always slowed their comms down for me and ensured that I was repeating back and understanding everything correctly. With that being said, I do remember one instance that we (my instructor and I) had a tight window and needed to do a short field landing. There was a jet on final and they had to go around even though we taxied off the runway in enough time, but safety first. I felt bad as the pilot for having to have that passenger jet do a go around, but my instructor told me not to worry about it since it should have been the ATC to have us extend our downwind and let the jet go ahead of us.
As someone based in Kissimmee, I know this guy. lol Sometimes you can tell he doesn't even want to bother with you in the pattern. I always wave though when taxiing by to let them know I'm friendly and appreciate them haha. Take your boy to Albert Whitted in ST Pete. That guy can be a straight up jerk to people and everyone knows him. Now I want you to host a KISM tower tour :) Could get spicy.
In 25 years, I thought I'd seen (and heard) possibly every variation in RT standards. This ATCO needs a good talking-to from his line manager/Standards Officer. My recommendation, for what it's worth - don't rise to the bait at the time. Focus on your ANC, unless it's becoming problematic for the student, in which case terminate the lesson. Not ideal for the student, by any means, but better than pushing a difficult situation when emotions are becoming involved. Definitely file on the incident afterwards, so that the recordings can be reviewed by someone in a position to do something about fixing the problem that this controller is creating. The last thing we need is the disconnect that you've described here @LewDixAviation. Best wishes, btw, from EGGP. Keep up the good work
Lewis Im so happy you highlighted this. I did all my training at KISM and this guy is always like this and creates so many problems. This is a video I hope the FAA sees so they can finally do something and help all the pilots there and remove him before he gets someone killed. He's been like this for years.
I’m glad you appreciate my efforts in making this. I used to instruct at ISM before this controller was there and never encountered anything like this.
@@LewDixAviation I spent the better part of a year dealing with him. Now I stay away as much as possible. Hope to see you up at FA83 again one of these days.
We have a controller like this at the airport I work at. She will get onto students over the smallest mistakes and ties up the frequency by going on and on about it. It makes our newer students even more nervous about talking on the radio. It frustrates us instructors as well especially when she tries to lecture us about things that she doesn’t know about (hint: She GOOGLED it).
Oh no way, that was her? Haha. I cringed at that video 😂
@@LewDixAviation we were all laughing our tails off when it came out. There’s even an instagram account with more reels similar to that clip!
Has she not been fired yet???
There was a controller out at KSQL (San Carlos, CA) that had the same issue. It blew up the internet with all of his radio calls. Totally unacceptable to berate pilots. We need to work together. Could be worth reporting to the FSDO.
A step before that is to just ask for a number from the person and explain to them your situation. Especially with Lewdix flying there for years it might give the guy a bit of a wake up call. He might have a realization. If not and he’s hostile then to the FSDO.
Yeah that’s a good call. Better to use discretion when escalating
It's a shame that there are people in such an important and crucial position to aviation safety that just seem to hate their jobs. Doesn't fill me with confidence sometimes.
Thanks for posting this. Thankfully in the 17years of amateur flying I have never encountered an AT Controller who has not been anything other than calm and helpful. This fellar is clearly in a job that he hates dealing with people he hates and probably should be working in an abattoir.
“Kissimmee Tower, I have a number for you to call.”
As an instructor also in the Orlando area I have also experienced this too much. Mostly with some of the approach guys. God forbid when there’s more than 4 aircraft on their frequency
Similar situation happened to me on my very first experience with a towered airport,in Worcester Massachusetts. The ATC was frustrated that I didn't give her the current atis, then she got frustrated that I asked her to repeat the taxiway instructions and then got frustrated that I didn't immediately respond to her giving me departure clearance. She had the worst attitude with a whiney voice and my cfi just kept telling me,to not let it get to me and just focus on what I was doing. He asked what I wanted to do next and I said to just return to our airport. I completely understand. It made me second guess myself and keep wondering wtf was I doing in the airplane,was I even ready to do this etc.
Some years ago, I made three trips to Florida for some holiday rental flying, based at Kissimmee. Never having flown in the US before that and aside from other differences to be aware of, I had heard that US controllers tend to speak quite fast but, on the three occasions that I visited, I had no problems with comms, indeed, the whole experience was a very pleasant one and I found the controllers to be very friendly and helpful which, as a visiting low hours Brit only served to put my mind at ease rather than the reverse. On one occasion, tracking south along the east coast from Titusville, outside of Orlando International's airspace (deliberately, of course!), Orlando ATC Flight Following called me and asked if I would like a direct routing through their overhead back to Kissimmee which I happily accepted! I suspect that it wasn't the guy referenced in this video! If any controller has a reputation for the type of behaviour quite rightly exposed in this video, as opposed to it being a rare occurrence, then one might seriously question why such a person should be allowed to remain in their post, for all of the reasons expressed. I doubt that any such controller will ever crash and die whilst sitting in a chair on terra firma.
From a safety point of view. I would report the controller to his boss. Its not a good environment to be in when you have something like this happening.
Thank you for making this video and highlighting this! Controllers are meant to keep people safe, and this hostile attitude from the controller is not safe whatsoever.
Air Traffic Control as a whole are very professional and are there to help you, I've been flying since 1986 and have never been talked to like that. I appreciate what ATC does everyday to keep us safe. Lew, you are absolutely correct. If that particular controller is that unhappy with what he is doing then he needs to find another profession. His attitude could quickly become a safety issue, especially with a new pilot.
I did a lot of my flight training at Vero Beach and there was one controller, hopefully he’s fired by now, that was a complete jerk to the students. We knew him around the flight school as “grumpy”. It didn’t bother me but, really highlighted how unprofessional a single bad controller can be. Also, how one small interaction like that can make a newer pilot lose focus and the proverbial first “domino” of an accident has started to fall
I sent you a message on your website about taking my daughter on a discovery flight and me a lesson while we are in the beach!! I love your channel and my daughter really wants you to take her!!!
Name is Josh C
Enough said. Well done. Safety safety first.This interaction should go into a personal file.
When I was doing my instrument training I did a flight to KBKL in Cleveland. Me and a controller had a misunderstanding about taxi instructions after an initial strict tone being set which led me to not question his phraseology. This ended up with them raising their voice at me on freq while I was taxiing after I asked "what would you like me to do, sir?"... Definitely did not have fun for the next 40 mins on the way home, and this is from someone who has always been confident with ATC. Other people at my flight school have had issues with this tower as well.
It's a real issue regarding ATC vs pilots when the tone is set poorly and I think you summarized it very well.
Great podcast Lewis! I was wondering if you could expand on any post-flight action you took about this situation. Did you call the tower supervisor or FSDO? Did you file a NASA report?
He needs a lesson from Murph at KORL. The most amazing controller on earth
Is there a way to file a complaint with the FAA? I 💯 agree no one should be talked liked that.
controllers tend to be untouchable.....pilots not so much
Someone should show this video to the management at this airport, this is uncalled for.
It's a contract tower.. they don't care unfortunately!
I had a mumbler yesterday on a practice RNAV. I’m on final into 30 and he starts mumbling after calling my tail number about a piper Cherokee circling to land on 34. I thought he wanted me to circle to land on 34. He knew I was on a practice approach so you think he would want to help me out and not boomhauer his instructions. As always, great video Lewis.
I love this. Super informative and educational but as always entertaining as hell. Love you man o7
Thanks man!
This is about as respectful of a criticism of an ATC that I’ve ever seen. I 100% agree that he is a risk to safety and the FAA needs to act. The KSQL controller who also acted like this is no longer there by the way. I hope he’s nowhere else either where he can affect safety.
I didn’t want to make it a destruction of his character. Instead I wanted to highlight the danger this sort of attitude poses. Glad it came across well!
@@LewDixAviation I think that the reluctance to even complain about legitimate issues is problematic in aviation. Doing so in a civil and professional way is the right way to do it though, and you’ve provided a good example here. At the very least, the FAA should focus on the fact that controllers with concerns like this should be kept away from airports with heavy student pilot activity. If they don’t want to damage his career, fine, but he can be based somewhere else. Professional pilots know how to deal with cranky ATC. Student situations are much more dangerous.
So well handled . Now the question is , is this controler going to take it on board and see the big safety picture and change his tune , if he isn’t , then definitely suspended as it is not safe at all period .
Love this episode because it shows how simple things can escalate for being safe ..
Glad you liked it man!
This isn't porn hub he needs to get the mic out of his throat....
I’m in plant city and hope over to Orlando for ifr training flights and this dude is the bane of my existence for holding procedures
I trained at KJQF, the controllers are really good and patient. There’s a lot of training at the airport. I made a mistake on first solo, didn’t get scolded, he worked me through it and everything worked out. Class acts in out tower, makes it easier on the pilots
We all know that controller watched this video and learned nothing from it.
Just as we are supposed to check our emotions before getting into the plane, it's the same after you have been welcomed to the sky. This sort of stuff effects everyone differently, but if this overly stresses someone out or makes them angry they can be largely distracted from flying the plane and have some major issues. Not to mention that you just cant understand him, "Boomhauer" had me laughing 😂.
There was an accident report I was watching about a lady being tossed around by ATC at a major airport, they re-sequenced her multiple times to give priority to commercial airlines when it would have been safer to let her land and have them go around if they were 2nd in and too fast. She was obviously getting very stressed and flustered from her tone of voice, wasn't standing up for herself with the ATC to get what she needed, and it ended with 4(?) people dead. The opposite is true with some incidents where ATC help people with emergencies, the recording of the student pilot who lost a landing gear assembly and was kept calm by the extremely nice controller got her back on track and focusing on flying the airplane.
If this guy constantly has an attitude or can't be understood I'd probably ask for a number. It goes so far beyond just being polite or not. Unsure how he can hold that job doing what he is doing.
That’s a perfect scenario. I’d hate to see how this guy would treat a student who’s declaring an emergency (or experiencing one and too afraid to declare it). I’m about to take my check ride this weekend and I can say that I do NOT want to fly into this field. Makes me appreciate my tower people here even more!
Went through the FAA Academy back in ‘86 and we were given a “phraseology error” if we were unclear with our clearances.
I fly out of IWA. This attitude is what I am used to. Somehow they are more rude to student pilot solos!
Outa Gateway? I’ve done patterns one day there, my instructor said they are picky about calls being correct, but I guess I haven’t seen all the personalities there yet.
Can confirm, my flight school literally has a special briefing in regards to the short temper of their controllers. They are very good at their job, just an attitude is all
I guess I’m lucky to fly outa falcon. I’ve goofed a couple times. Mostly calling 22R instead of 22L.
@@scottyscott9965 I also fly out of falcon, what a small world. See you in the sky :)
may i suggest -- leaving this airfield and going somewhere else when you encounter this sort of service?
It must surely say somewhere in the air traffic controller's manual that any plums must be removed from the controllers mouth before operating the radio?
Probably sour patch kids candy!
kVRB - vero beach .... Worst controllers in Florida... very unprofessional. Unfortunately they are untouchable and don't care... I LOVE THE AIRPORT, but the controllers are extremely unprofessional... I hate going in there... They suck!
Great video! Very important! I’ve been fortunate to have great experiences with ATC. That would have deflated my mood as well. As you said, stand your ground and be sure and be SAFE!
Brilliant podcast, absolutely correct. Last thing you need is someone who’s meant to be helping you, berrating you for trying to maintain safety. Unfortunately have had a couple of controllers like this in the UK.
Cheers! Shame you’ve come across similar situations.
You need to take a controller manager from that airport flying to see how bad he is. Or, send them this video.
Oh my… some people just make me tired - even more than because of my MS-fatique. But I was wondering if you couldn‘t have giving this dude a number to call after he is finished ATCing?
I am a cfi out of kism and I remember once this guy did the same to me. i was doing touch and goes in the 150 with a student and it was somewhat busy so he told up to extend our downwind, then as he was telling us to turn base he was stepped on by someone else. someone else on the pattern even said 'blocked" so i waited a bit since i was not sure it was for us but could guess it was since we were the only ones that should be turing base at the time. and did not hear anything from him for about 10 seconds so i asked him if that last call was for us and he came back with the same attitude, and telling us that we need to listen and then told us to that we now have to do a 360 because we did not lisien. needless to say that landing turned into a full stop.
I had a much worse experience with a controller who was either having a bad day or is just an A-hole by nature, so after the third radio call of her yelling at me I said cancel my landing request and left the pattern. Later I called her supervisor who immediately started making excuses for her and explaining how they are short handed. I still hear her from time to time being the same A-hole to others so nothing changed. I think the problem is a shortage of people who want to do that job so they have to put up with subpar help. My advice is like you said we are all adults trying to do our best to keep the sky safe so if you run into such a miserable person just stand your ground don’t get upset and conduct yourself professionally knowing they don’t have any authority over you so their opinion of you doesn’t matter and if necessary remove yourself from the situation and come back later. If you have the time later call and make a complaint but it’s unlikely something will happen. Don’t argue with stupid people, they drag you down to their level of stupidity and beat you with experience. 99.9% of ATC are good helpful people don’t let the oddball turn you off.
Boomhauer! I lost it when you said that! Love your videos. Keep it up!
😂 cheers mate!
That ATC clearly woke -up on the wrong side of the hanger.
Fettler! Be professional. Don't post your thoughts. Talk to your ATC colleague. Work together? One professional to another? The control tower is on YOUR airfield where YOU work and you post here instead of sorting it locally? YOU don't help. YOU reinforce controller / ATC contention with this post. You're the professional now. Go sort it. IT'S WITH YOU
One of the reasons I enjoy flying in the evening and night is usually because the controllers are in a pretty good mood, and it's not very busy.
Jeez, I thought Americans were always “have a nice day y’all” friendly! Think I’ll stay in Blighty. Really enjoyed this one Lew. 👍
Haha not in Florida they’re not 😂
You cut out a really important part at 9:22 that was in your full video with the student. The controller said left traffic but right turn out in the same sentence. The student didn't forget, the controller made a call that makes literally 0 sense.
Repeating back the instructions is like signing a contract saying you understand. Do not repeat anything if your not sure. Simply ask to “say again” The moment you make a mistake they will be quick to report you to the FAA so get all the confirmation you need. Just like you have some pilots that don’t belong in the sky you have controllers that don’t belong in the tower. I would never take my students to do a solo to that airport. Screw that fool probably hates his miserable existence and takes it out on the job. I would paying a visit to the tower to let him know or calling the FSDO.
This guy sounds like he has a dip in lol
Hahaha
Sounds like he has a half a poke of chaw in his jaw 😫🤣🤣
As they say pilots and ATC have something in common.. the pilot messes up the pilot dies, whereas the ATC messes up … the pilot dies.
Boomhauer 😂😂😂
🙌🏻😂
This reminds me of my Instrument Check ride I wrote every instruction down and then reverified just to verify What I heard, what I wrote and what I understood. Dpe didn't say a word other than to confirm. Made the whole situation a lot more comfortable.
I had some troubles with a grumpy delta controller on one of my solo xc. I asked for a number to call and talk.
Turned out the guy wasn’t a pilot and was a contract controller and things improved.
when he said "not wanting to be in the sky" broke my heart. But yeah some ATC are straight up diccs!
Great video! I remember when I was apprehensive talking to ATC! I definitely stand my ground now since being a PPL for 2 years now!
Im not sure what the right course of action would be here. But I’d probably call the FSDO and ask where I could file a formal complaint. Having the video/audio file to attach as well would be awesome too. How is he gonna slur into the mic, get pissed when somebody doesn’t understand, then get pissed when someone asks for clarification after he gave an incorrect instruction just a moment prior? Karen’s belong arguing over expire coupons, not directing air traffic.
(I understand ATC is critically understaffed nationwide. But if this guy is fed up with life, maybe it’s time for a career change or to call fatigued and let someone else handle it.)
This is my home airport… he isn’t always like that but… he often is lol As a low hour student it def can be stressful. And it’s really not that busy of an airport so I don’t understand why he’s like that.
I’m get calcification on everything and laugh about it
06MA Control... Im gonna need a number... lemme know when you have it to give. - I would totally call him when I landed. I get it, everyone has an off day, and perhaps he should have taken the day off, but you are absolutely right. His tone alone deters any further interaction compromising safety. PERIOD. Thanks for the highlight, and maybe he will see/hear this podcast and realize he can do better.
Obviously ATC has final say but if it's my first time to that airport and I've studied the sectional, I'm going to be thinking right patterns on 15 or 6 since that's what is on the chart. Even more reason to double check he wanted left traffic.
I would certainly be reporting this type of behaviour
ATP, CFII, 9 type ratings from Bae3201 to 737…16 countries, many many hours. The point of this isn’t to squeeze my own accordion, but to bolster my point that I’m about to make.
The point is that even though NY Center doesn’t do this (yeah they get a little sharp and exasperated but its delivered in a way that makes the point but still has a little dare I say, humor in doing it), manage things better even with their volume.
Southern California….SNA, ONT etc. These controllers juggle us airlines and the bugsmashers at the same airports with everything from same runways to intersecting runways and do it with efficiency and less homilies than this little airport has. Maybe he needs a Snickers
“Boomhauer” 😂😂
😂 It’s appropriate
Great episode, loved your students reply to ATC. So much respect to ATC and the majority of the time it goes both ways thankfully.👏
First, very nice pronuntiation of "Juan", really, very nice :) Second, 100% agree with you.