Kwesi Adofo-Mensah Overpaid For J.J. McCarthy & Dallas Turner (And That's Okay)
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 ต.ค. 2024
- Sure, Kwesi Adofo-Mensah paid too many draft picks to move up twice in the first round of the 2024 NFL draft. Now J.J. McCarthy and Dallas Turner are Minnesota Vikings. How much do we care about the 2025 mid round picks?
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We got 2 top 10 players, including our quarterback of the future, and kept our 2025 and 2026 1st round picks! Vikings did much better this year at picking players than you thought they would!
I wouldnt say two top 10 players.
@@misguidednuke2143that’s cool
Most would
Kwesi killed it imo i eas fully expecting to trade both 1sts this year and 2025 1st for 1 qb... instead we keep our 1st next year and get a qb and edge rusher...edge rusher who was projected to be the first defensive player off the board...ill take it every year.
Oh I got an A on my Pharmacology Final despite sitting through that whole draft party
LET'S GO
lol over paid is funny considering we were supposed to give up 3 1st for just JJ. 4 first for drake so what are ppl even talking about
People are idiots saying lets give up 3 firsts, some saying lets give up MORE than that. Most of these QBs will bust. Giving up multiple no. 1 picks is how you suck for years.
I believe they are talking about trading up to 17 when they were assured an impact player at 23.
Kwesi cooked like crazy last night!
Dude I went into yesterday thinking it was minimum 2 firsts for McCarthy, I do not give a rats ass about the marginal overpay.
LFG!
I don't think you can consider those 2nd round picks as just for Dallas Turner. We paid for maneuverability and it worked out nicely. There was an overpay, but at least it wasn't 3 firsts for JJ McCarthy.
Who cares about mid round picks. The vikings would've overpaid if they gave up the 2025 1st, which they did NOT. They got the QB of the future and one of the best Edge guys in the draft. Quit complaining
I think Luke is referring to a report on ESPN that said that we way overpaid for Turner. I think this is Hyperbole and sarcasm. I don’t think he believes they overpaid. He was pretty excited about turner on the live stream last night.
@deanmoodie5008 - He literally said they overpaid. Not hyperbolic. "These were not good deals. These were not well-negotiated." Luke is clueless and needs to go.
You said it my thoughts exactly
Exactly! Grade A draft. Haters gonna hate..players gonna play 🏈
SKOL!
@@JonathanKonkelhey man, what are we doing here? Even clicking on your profile shows this isn’t your first comment saying the same thing. Stop watching Luke if you don’t like him; it’s not that hard.
Kwesi addressed the subject of over paying for a Q.B...he basically said the cost of getting your guy sometimes REQUIRES you to OVERPAY....well done kwesi !! What a fine draft!!
This all proves what a waste of time all these mock drafts are ...
I really don't pay too much attention to those. Nowadays the draft simulators are much entertaining. Wish they had those back in the day when I was very much into the draft!
How did the Vikings overpay for turner? Dude was projected 8 overall and we got him at 17
You’re not even asking the right questions.
The Vikings didn’t pay anything for “TURNER”
The Vikings overpaid for the #17 overall pick.
Regardless of who they draft with it.
If the player they draft pans out, then it’s absolutely fine to overpay.
But that has yet to be decided.
Also, your thought process is very flawed.
Let’s say as the #8 overall prospect, Turner has a projected retail value of 1,000,000$.
But then he falls all the way to pick 17, and the Vikings pay an undisclosed amount to move up from 42 to 23 and 23 to 17, to draft Turner.
RATHER THAN SAY , “HOW COULD WE OVERPAY FOR TURNER, WE GOT HIM AT 17 AND HE WAS PROJECTED AT PICK 8????”
Instead, what you’d really want to know is , DID THE VIKINGS PAY MORE THAN 1,000,000$ to move up and draft him???
WHILE NOT THE SAME THING, That’s EXACTLY HOW MINN COULD OF OVERPAID FOR THE RIGHT TO SELECT TURNER
(Or anyone else @ #17)
As the Les Snead meme goes “F*** them picks”
I love JJ's pocket awareness. It will be really refreshing to see compared to the previous era
So what if we dont have any 2,3,4rd pick next year. We got cap money next year to work FA.
It maybe was a tad high, but to me its like paying $2.20 for a $2 candy bar. They wanted to secure a qb, and the other qbs wanted way to much to trade up, im sure. They did pretty good
The only way you can say the Vikings overpaid to take a future quarterback and "the best defensive player in the draft" is if they both never play a snap this coming season. That is very unlikely, especially with the coaching these rookies will be working with. Only time will tell...
Vikes crushed it.
No help from you you wanted them to pay 4 or 5 first round picks for a quarterback you guys are real smart
Great show. I thought the draft went very well for Minnesota. The Falcons taking Penix erased a potential future debate and if other team were trying to jump the Vikings to take JJ, then trading up a spot was worth what little the Vikings paid for that move, especially if JJ pans out. All draft analysis should be based on the performance of that player a couple of years after the draft concludes. So far, I am happy with this year's Vikings draft performance.
Who gives a crap they got the two guys they wanted, didn't give up any future firsts or major blue chip capital. I thought they hit a homerun
The whole “value” analysis is fine for a guideline, but shouldn’t be ultimately dispositive of your draft pick. That was my problem with Speilman, he was too focused on getting value too often that he often missed the forrest through the trees. A GM is ultimately graded on how successful the team is, not on how he wheels and deals on draft day.
Well in 2 years we haven’t won a playoff game. Idk how more direct you can be when evaluating team success than that ????
And you certainly can’t say the team is successful bc you liked their draft this year.
Great job by Kwesi. I would rather have all the cap space they're gonna have next year as opposed to mid to late round picks. I'm also guessing there will be a trade back to acquire more picks plus comps. We're good.
2 2nds and a 3rd aren’t “mid to late round picks” nor do they have anything to do with Minnesota’s Cap situation.
The Vikings cap situation was going to be the same regardless.
Dude in this video nailed it. As a fan you shouldn’t look for reasons why kwesi didn’t overpay. You should simply acknowledge that he did, and move on , bc it’s okay that he overpaid.
@@MINNESOTA_PTSD It's not an overpay considering how much the price was to move up to 3. And more picks means more money spent. The reason why the cap matters is because you'll be able to sign more free agents who are already established players and won't have to focus so much on nailing every draft pick.
I saw a report that the giants were drafting jj until a couple hours before the draft they felt they needed to try and make their qb work.
Meh, the Jets didn't get much really. I'd gladly have given a 4th and 5th to secure McCarthy and not get jumped by Denver or LV. Jax, got better, but we have Turner for that capital and I'm 100% good giving a 2nd and 3rd for him. He has all the potential to be a game wrecker. Unless you hate the McCarthy and Turner picks, the price paid is very nominal for 2 potential stars and the top 2 positions on each side of the ball.
Just FYI for anyone that cares, Von Miller and Micah Parsons are "smaller" players for the OLB position. Turner profiles VERY similarly to these guys, athletically.
Anyone think Atlanta chose a qb to sell later? I would see that much more then cousins guarantee and a 1st on a qb
For what, a future 2nd or 1st round pick? That's less valuable than the 8th pick of the draft they just used on him. They really should have just improved their team to win now using that pick.
@@traviskehoe3245 absolutely should have picked anyone else.... I'm just trying to assign any intelligent thought to why you do this
1. What’s the chance they’ll ever be picking Top 8 again with Kirk at QB???
2. It is also very possible the Falcons could be penalized future 1st Round draft picks for tampering.
3. It’s also very possible they loved Pennix and viewed him as their guy.
It’s actually really sad so many people want so badly to attack or criticize someone else, that they completely forget the very situation they used to be in.
Remember Vikings fans biggest complaint?????
Never ending cycle. Always picking 18-24th. Not good enough to win a ring, never bad enough to get better.
Not to mention look how GB drafted Jordan Love.
The Falcons are attached to Kirk for 2 years. After that, they can move on if they want too.
They should be applauded for doing what they did. I think they know damn well Kirk isn’t going to win anything with them, and rather than try to build around him, they simply drafted Pennix , like they should have.
Atlanta is basically admitting to signing Kirk knowing he was never going to win them a SB ring. It was a business move. To fill seats.
And I wish the Vikings would have realized this about 2-3 years ago tbh.
Ain’t a single Viking fan out there that thinks ATL is gonna win a ring with Kirk.
And now we want to criticize them for drafting Pennix rather than waisting picks on building for Kirk ?????
Naw. Atl is smart. They sold their soul to the devil , and have no reservations about what they did and why.
I applaud ATL. 💯
Did you see KOC's face when Kwesi said they got Turner?? !!
man i gotta get that hat back in the rotation
Man F them picks we got two top notch players, enough said.
I respect moving up to 10 no reason to risk someone jumping us then being stuck with the worst of the qbs at 11 in nix
So should vikings of stayed at 23 ? Would of missed out on all the elite edge rushers although wouldnt of hated moving down from 23 for a extra day 2 pick then grabbed Johnny Newton but id rather get the better player dallas turner
Sorry I had to unsubscribe, to many adds here, and your Vikings takes are constantly wrong.
Kwesi will be cooking in free agency next year
I love penix. Cant wait for him to start.
You're watiing two years at least
I get the charts but I don’t think I would give up 10, 17, 203, 223 ( and then 15 based on newer charts) for 11, 42, mid 2,3,4 129, 157, 167, 188. They also may think they are not going to be a middle team this year and the future picks are more like later round picks
We overpaid and you know what pissed me off the most is the Falcons took Cousins with tampering then during the draft the Falcons draft Penix to slap the Vikings even more the NFL needs to also be held accountable.
The fact we didn't have to give up 23 and next year's first for McCarthy alone I think isn't overpaying we got Dallas Turner too who is hunters replacement I see this as a big W
Hot take-
We can’t decide if anyone overpaid or underpaid until we actually see them play.
that's a different discussion, i think, but i hear ya
Bleeding Value? The draft analysts predicted Top 3 QBs to go 1-2-3 in draft. Then it happened! Shit! No Williams, No Daniels, No Maye. Panic! Everyone yelling. Kwesi please Trade Up Now! Nope, Kwesi saw through the three 1sts smokescreen price and sat back to see his analysis be correct. When his process got to Pk 10 Kwesi calmly walked up, confirmed the 66% off sale he created of one 1st rd pick for our franchise QB and selected McCarthy in the top 10 of the 2024 draft. Kwesi - under risk of being fired if he was wrong. He trusted his process, ignored the Smoke took McCarthy for peanuts and started working on a new plan to make KOC smile. Bleeding value? Kwesie reset the market. Our GM burned that chart up and showed he has a set set on him in the process. I'm guessing next years QB at Pk 10 does not go for one 1st Rounder.
With kwesi history drafting on day 2 im okay trading up for a elite prospect over whatever we got with those pick which would likely not even play or be mid like booth, ed Ingram
And in a twist of fate, that one loss that so many Vikings fans wanted didn’t really even matter! Everything seems to have worked out well.
One reason I believe Kwesi has been overpaying has to do with how green he is in his role as a GM. Other GMs know this and are doing whatever they can to get extra value out of him cause they know they can. Take advantage of the new guy. At least he is getting deals done IMO. At least we aren’t Atlanta!
Lost value on the Rich Hill Trade Chart is equal to about a late 2nd round pick. Analytics say to trade back in the draft if it isn't for a QB, Kwesi must have missed that lesson in his analytics lesson. The second tier of edge rushers are pretty good, but defensive line is where they should looked to address Jerry Tillery and Harrison Phillips are good rotational players but wouldn't be starter level quality on a lot of teams.
There is a world where we really did just draft the 2nd best QB AND best defensive player in the draft. Obviously fans have their opinions on both players and it’s just a homer speculation on my end, but you never know :)
You can’t overpay when you get the best qb in the draft. Jj will have the Vikings into the playoffs almost right away.
Dallas Turner was listed on many big boards at 8, and the top defensive player. McCarthy was listed 20 but QB4. Honestly, they weren’t too much of reaches. If anything, you flip the picks then they wouldn’t be reaches.
In 2-3 years one Dallas turner gains extra strength like hunter did hes gonna be crazy. Hope in the future kwesi doesnt aquire picks a month before the draft thats main reason he wasted so much value
They absolutely did give up a lot.
If you were a fan of the Jets or a fan of Jacksonville you'd be elated by what you got.
Great trades. All teams came out of the trades looking great.
Jets probably lied to make the Vikes think some team was trying to move up.
@@JohnnyUtah-71 It's possible, but there's a very good chance the Raiders or Broncos were making offers.
@@TristanandIsolt I don't doubt it. Minnesota paid a lot because otherwise another team would have drafted McCarthy.
My point is that they did pay a lot.
The price turned out not to be the very high price that had been discussed. But McCarthy turned out to be the fifth QB -- not the third or fourth or second -- drafted.
A very high price was paid, especially if he is only the fifth best QB in the end.
@@leonardshevlin7260 Odds are only 2 of the 6 QBs selected in the first will end up being good. I believe McCarthy has a good chance of being good.
“Trader Rick” won trades all the time and it amounted to nothing. I like getting a higher tier prospect, we already have plenty of depth on defense who we call starters. We need the high end talent.
It didn't amount to nothing. It helped him make a better team than he would have otherwise had.
@@LockedOnVikings To a degree maybe but he traded back and most of his defensive picks were misses where they might have been hits if he stayed put. It’s tough to say for sure.
When Dallas turner has a 10 sack season we won't care same with McCarty when he's oroty
We still have 5 more picks in this draft too.
Someone needs to give Kwesi a draft trade chart, he is winging it and it is hurting the Vikings ability to fill holes in their roster I wish Kwesi had been able to hang on to the 4th rounder that went along with a 3rd and 5th round picks to get the 17th pick. Adding in the 4th round pick was over paying the 3rd and 5th would have been about equal value. If they couldn't get up to the 17th pick and they missed out on Turner they could have taken Darius Robinson and that would have been a really good fit lining up at defensive giving the defensive line its first potential star. Edge Rushers are great to have but with Van Ginkel and Greenard it wasn't a priority. I don't have a problem with overpaying for the QB, considering they didn't have to give up pick 23 it was not that bad. Chris Braswell has a chance to be a very good edge rusher he ran a 4.55 40 yard dash and he was more productive than Turner was at Alabama so trading back may have been worth doing.
He developed the one San Francisco uses, which obviously has some more radical ideas about talent cliffs. but that radical mentality is exactly what the Wilfs hired him for - coloring inside the lines had fallen short
@@LockedOnVikings If you look at San Francisco's trades they don't lose value other that the Lance trade which had a QB tax. No other team loses as much value as Kwesi does I have added up trade values of other teams it is factual. Every GM should want to maximize trade value, kicking in the 4th rounder to the Jags the wasn't needed the 3rd round pick was enough adding the 5th round pick this year was gravy to the Jaguars the 4th rounder was cake.
@@LockedOnVikings The 49ers aren't aggressive traders like Kwesi is, they have had three draft trades (picks for picks) in the last seven years the, Trey Lance trade which had a QB tax and two Vikings trades. They got more value than they gave up in both of the Vikings trades. They do trade picks for players which is impossible to quantify with a trade chart.
@@LockedOnVikingsSan Francisco isn't an aggressive draft pick trader. Other than the Lance trade in the last seven years their only two draft pick for draft pick trades were with the Vikings and gained value in both trades.
It would be funny if Darnold and the defense play so well that JJ goes from playing quarters 1-3 to playing only the 4th quarters because Minnesota has insurmountable leads.
Luke I've given you a lot of grief over the QB to draft and what it was going to cost during this whole process. It turned out I was right that we didn't need to pay much to get McCarthy, but I so respect the way you owned being faked out by the Giants bluff. Keep up the great work.
I was absolutely against 3 1sts for a qb.... I'm ok with a slight over pay for jj.... also Turner was on most boards either 1 most usually 2 defensive guy.... we need now 4 defensive starters in my list.... this draft is good with me so far.... even if busts which can happen.. they didn't give 3 1s away and still have a future
I would much rather get two stud players over a bunch of half assed mid round junk!
First, I'm almost 70yrs, seen lots of drafts, live in Wis, know QBs. You overpaid for the QB, but not real bad. Things is, you had to do it. But, for being so willing to move picks, you should have moved up and got a better one. Now, your brilliant move was 17, wow, what a stud. Jordan Love will be running for his life. Overall, not bad. I wanted you to have a better QB.
You think Bo nix was better? lol
The price to move up for a “better one” was not worth it.
I think you massively underestimate McCarthy.
Latu was the best pass rusher in this draft, but had the scary medical condition. Chop if fun, but no way is he a better prospect than Turner. Turner was all things considered the best defender in this draft.
JJ was a steal compared to our expectations going in. And Dallas Turner is basically free, when you consider what we could have spent on JJ.
And as for all the draft maneuvering with the pick that eventually became Dallas Turner? It was to put us in position to take a shot at a top 3 QB. It didn't happen, but I'm not gonna fault Kwesi for trying.
Top 3 based on whose evaluation?
For all we know, JJ could have been evaluated top 3 on several team's evaluations
@@Saltyahole kay, with the exception of a few outliers, JJ was mocked as the fourth QB off the board, and certainly it seems like the Vikings valued at least Maye above him
the bar was dumbfounded when atlanta took penix
Apparently you were a Bo Nix fan.. that's who the Vikes would have today without that slight trade-up.
Can there be a plan to trade Penix?
Luke is so dumb saying overpaid dud is a bozo
Weak sauce.
Dude, we got a top five defensive dude in his draft for like 2 seconds and a bunch other stuff. Yea, I feel like I’d rather have him than like Ingram, Ward and Hall pick wise. Give Flores a good set than a box of legos you got from your little brothers room
The funny thing is everyone said 3 first for JJ or Drake Maye. Now we get JJ and Dallas turner and somehow we are bleeding value. Why does the narrative always change when we get something good done. There’s no way you end up with Dallas Turner if he didn’t do what he did. I also can picture Denver jumping us to get J.J. Kwesi cooked. I swear we are the only team that gets bashed for doing good or bad. Other teams do this all the time. Browns Traded to go and get manziel didn’t work out. Drafted mayfield didn’t make it to his second contract. 49ers massively over paid for Trey Lance he played all of what 3 games. We are the only team that has never really overpaid till now and guess what we have never been to a Super Bowl. JJ won the national championship this year and looked good in the combine. Dallas Turner could and should have went like 8. Sometimes it’s good to overpay and I feel like this is the time we got it right. Kwesi cooked. We still have our first for next year. We will have a good amount of money next year for free agency. Darnald comes off the books McCarthy will be on a rookie deal and so is Addison. This is a home run. Speilman would have traded down and got two corners for zimmer collected 20 7th round pics and did the same thing he always does. You overpay when it’s going to make your team better and that’s what kwesi did.
Overpaid, how?
This is such a bad take. Needs worry about draft chart trades, football people care about getting good players.
Why don't you say the word "overpaid" or phrase "bled a bunch of value" just a couple more times. My gawd.
Dude....the roster is 53, so more draft picks of people you can't keep is smart? Please do the math. OK, Tom Terric was a 6th round pick, it happens but I I'm going with the stats....fewer higher pickes are worth more than more lower picks because you can only keep 53. Right?
Come on man take the win. You had them giving up even more to get JJ and now you’re knocking on Kwesi for paying to much? #badtake
The Vikings got a 2nd round talent in McCarthy at 10 and a DE that disappeared against Texas and Michigan...won't have to worry about losing another Super Bowl any time soon. On average 1.5 QB's hit in the first round each year, I don't think you got one of them.
bruh it aint even been 24 hours and youre such a bummer lol
@billborowkowski3208 - Your scouting ability is seriously inept compared to the professionals. Quit crying, Karen.
And Tom Brady was a 6th round talent. I Still can't believe he wasn't the 1st QB taken. 2nd round my ass. J.J. has all the intangibles that Brady has. Michigan's running game was not as good (169 yards per game) as the previous two years (214 in 22" & 239 in 21") and the backs only had 4 individual 100-yard games (Corum 3, Edwards 1), Meanwhile J.J. average 13 yards per completion on third down. On 3rd down and 10 + to go he was 17 of 22 for 278 yards, 4 TDS, 0 int's, and averaged 16 yards per completion. J.J. is an old school alpha male. He will do whatever it takes to win. Minnesota is now J.J.'s team!
And you think Drake Maye was? For 4 first round picks?
Lmfao gtfoh.
Luke Braun is 100% clueless. Get rid of this guy.
That’s rather unkind and many of us like Luke Braun. You’re hate isn’t appreciated in this lovely community
@SvenDzahov - Facts are facts. His analysis is subpar, and he's being allowed to promulgate it. That needs to change.
@@JonathanKonkel that’s not a fact by definition lol. That’s a very subjective take. What do you find subpar lol
@SvenDzahov - Literally every evaluation he makes is subpar. He shows no understanding of how offenses, defenses, and special teams work. He uses buzzwords, hoping that he'll sound like he knows what he's talking about. His analytical skills lack full context and are full of poorly drawn conclusions.
These aren't subjective takes. They're objective based on the decades of analytical experience that I possess. He's an UDFA who somehow made the pro team without bringing any polished abilities to help the overall team. Not every talking head knows what they're doing, and he's a good example of it.
@@JonathanKonkel lol