Yet another great video Jeff. As the designer of these plates, I would say you discovered a lot of what i'm trying to accomplish. I'll throw out a couple of my thoughts. The surface of any stone has a topology that looks like a mountain range. The entire surface is a microscopic mountain range. I'm going to use 1 micron as a simple example. If a stone is made up of 1 micron particles held together in some kind of binder. Then, the 1 micron particles are the mountain peaks and the binder is generally the valleys. Question, how flat does the stone have to be to be for a perfectly flat bevel to contact 50% of the mountain peaks across the surface of the stone? My answer is +/- 1 micron or, a range of 0-2 microns. there are several parameters that come into play that can alter the dynamic but, my point is, the flatter the stone, the more peaks you will contact in a given pass while sharpening. Thats why the edge seems to suck down on the surface after its been "groomed" with the NL-5. Yes, I can make the plate to a lower standard than I have and, save a few dollars. But, the result will not be as satisfying. And control will deteriorate. In my experiments, I have found that any lapping plate that doesn't have substantial relief grooves will cause "surfing". When the plate surfs on the slurry on top of the stone, it cannot groom the surface because it isn't making even contact with the surface. That's why I designed lots of relief into the plate. Further, I found that it is the edges of the structures that are doing most of the work. So, I used the star and hexagon pattern to increase the length of the edges in the top of the plate. The combination of those three elements flatness, relief and lots of edges come together to make a reliable grooming tool. These same observations hold up just as well at larger particle sizes. Use our 35 micron (400 grit range) stone as an example. To contact 50% of the peaks, the plate must be flat to at least +/- 35 microns or 0-70 microns. Currently we guarantee that our NL-5 is at least +/- 25 microns measured after the diamonds are on the plate. (Shapton quotes a better number but that is a measurement of the surface of the plate before the diamonds go on) So, based on that math, Jeff is actually grooming more than 50% of the abrasive particles in the surface of the stone. And, thats a really good thing for creating foundation geometry. That will carry forward to even better results with finer stones.
Well done mate Your video showed up differences in each plate. Clear sound on feedback plus clear explanation really helped achieve this. Lookin forward to your next sharpening video on these stones. Cheers 😁
thanks for checking it out. Receiving products like this helps me check out stuff I might otherwise miss, or just not be interested in. The Nano Hone for example, I had assumed were just repackaged, over priced, Shapton glass. Was I ever wrong!
Ive got a worn 140 atoma as well. You might be able to get away with it on a 400 grit stone... Once the stone is flat you turn the 140 sideways to minimize the contact area. Itd probably help to do it under running water so that the loose grit gets washed away instead of cushioning the 140 plate
Was this DMT their Dia-Flat Lapping Plate or one of their Dia-Sharp models? Cheers Edit: nvm, I can see it’s the “Dia-Sharp” not their lapping plate advertised solely for flattening sharpening stones
@@jasonedwardledburynewzeala9897 The DIA flat is imo the best one on the market. It's bigger tho, thats how you can tell. The regular plates are 8x3 like most stones. The dia flat is 10x4 inches. They last forever. If you have a need for them and can get a good cost, they are worth it.
Interesting to see how the rust eraser glazed the stone even more. I am wandering how it will works on clay or resin based stones. You should try Missarka FEPA 500 from finetools - interesting sintered Al2O3 stone. Great presentation as always. Have a nice day.
I looked at buying the Haidu series, but can't find anyone that will ship to the US. The MissArka have always caught my eye, since watching your vids. I just never got around to em.
Unfortunately these were just loaned to me from a buddy. If the cheap plate is in new condition, and not worn down terrible, it should have the same results as my dmt here.
I know this is a old video but if you see this remark could you sometimes lap with the nano hone plates and mark the stone before you lap with DMT and then re lap with nano hone and mark stone then lap with the atoma and then you could see if dmt and the atoma plate was flat. I am talking about lapping with out sharpening in-between lapping
I no longer have the nano hone plate. It was borrowed from a viewer. However, i have lapped with my dmt and atoma plenty of times. Both plates are flat. Are they micro precisioned flatness, like the nano hone? No. For my needs, and i would say 99% of everyone else, they are flat enough
Thanks for the video it was an answer to a question I didn't have but good to know how the different plates react to the nano homes when flattening. The nano hone stones seem like really good stones. Going to try and decide between them, the Shapton pros and some Arkansas stones.
Thanks for checking it out :) It was actually a bit eye opening. I can see why the Nano Hone would be popular. Price is still a deterrent for me, but I can appreciate the effect it has, on the stones.
Very interesting stuff. I would think that a clean abrasive matrix plate could not be made any smoother than its base grit shape and size as it naturally fractures. I can see how it can be artificially made more aggressive by forming much larger hidden scratches, such that at the microscopic level, the stone surface is far from flat, being like a flat gravel field with deep single track motocross trails everywhere (not bad per se, just not the design intention). I would think that its maximally smooth performance is the actual desired default state for that grit. If you want a coarser bite, the user should change to the next larger honing stone grit size (go from 35 micron to 70 micron) or to another grit shape (aluminum oxide vs SiC, etc). Note my comments apply only to a clean sharpening stone, where the pores are not filled with swarf, and not to a diamond plate where the shape of the diamond particles remaining, the spacing/density of the diamonds and the average and peak heights of the diamonds all matter, which is why there are three distinct stages of a monocrystalline diamond plate (new, semi-broken in, and well used). It is largely this changing nature and inconsistency in the diamond height above the nickel surface that makes using them and comparing them problematic. I frequently see people compare a 5 year old diamond stone that still cuts well to a new one from another manufacture. This is largely a useless comparison, and one has diamonds that are almost all the same height above the nickel, and that height is only about 10% of the diamond overall height. The new plate has diamonds of basically the same size, but widely varying heights above that nickel surface (10% to 70% or more). In the uniform height condition, only about 1% of the thousands of diamonds scratches the hard steel, whereas the new plate has 10 or 100 that imbed 10% or more in the steel due the increased force/area, with the others barely touching the surface if at all. Neither the old nor the new is bad. They just are not the same plates. Not even close. I am curious about @Nano Hone's opinion on these points.
Hey Jef I'm new to your channel and I first want to say thank you for being honest that being said I'm a fairly new to sharpening knives or I should say I'm new at being able to sharpen a knife to hair popping sharp but I've mainly just used diamond stones and I'm wanting to find a good set of stones be they made of what ever as long as they are reasonably priced and good quality and they perform as they should could you recommend some for me to try out and again great video I look forward to hearing from you and to watching future videos of yours
Hello. Your video was posted on TH-cam 4 years ago. I'm interested in your opinion about the nano hone plate after so many years, what its condition is, whether it has worn out much and whether it works well now.
Unfortunately, i did not buy these plates. They were sent to me, by a friend on youtube. He wanted to get my opinion of them, so i made a few videos. I do not know how they hold up 🤷♂️ Sorry. Wish i had more info for you. I can say, my Shapton pro are still going strong. 😁 Been using those for years
So maybe a dumb question, but do you get different edge finishes with the different surface finishes? In other words, can you get sort of a poor-man's way around say two stones just by changing the surface finish of the one stone?
I think thats a great question. It leads into lots of areas for consideration. My short answer is yes, you will get different scratch patterns from stones that have been groomed with various grit lapping plates. I don't think i'ts useful as a substitute for multiple abrasive sizes but, I do think it can be very useful when sharpening various kinds of steel.
As Nano Hone pointed out, the short answer, yes. Surface conditioning, on a friable stone, isn't nearly as important, as it is for a non friable stone. Take an Arkansas Stone as an example. It is basically one lump of abrasive. Nothing sheds off the stone, as you sharpen on it. With use, the surface glazes, and cutting is considerably reduced. With water stones, they are constantly releasing abrasive particles, and therefor continue to cut, even if the surface isn't optimal. A Spyderco Ceramic Uf and Fine stone, are the same abrasive, just surface conditioned differently. Or so I have heard. I do not know for certain. However, you can turn a UF stone, into something leaning on the aggression of a Spyderco Medium stone, or make it so fine, that it only burnishes the steel. Conditioning the surface allows you to really tailor a stone, to your own preferences. Want it to cut fast? Lap it with very coarse abrasive particles, like 46 grit Silicon carbide powder. Want it to leave a fine scratch pattern? Lap it with several Sic grits, and leave the finish on the surface smooth. For an Arkansas stone, and similar abrasives, I would say conditioning is mandatory. The Norton India is another excellent example of this. Hope that makes sense. Obviously condensed, and there are tons of nuances to every stone. Some benefit more than others, from conditioning.
Hi Jef, I am new here... but I have to say that this is a very nice video. Thanks for running these tests and spread the knowledge :)Interesting the glazing effect you got on the stone by using the rust eraser. I could see that it is a Sabitoru medium grit (white kanji)... do you think that the stone would feel glazed as well using a rust eraser with coarser grit (as the Sabitoru with blue kanji). I am wondering what would be the result by using a nagura (dressing) stone after lapping the stone with the atoma plate... I think it could help to get rid of the glazed feeling.What do you think about these questions? Again, nice video. Now, I am on board on your channel (basically for your plain speaking honesty).All the best!
Thanks for the kind words. If you don't mind me asking, how did you discover my channel? I am always interested to learn how folks find me :) To your questions, I think any rust eraser, will cause the glazed feeling. They are just very fine, even on the coarsest grit. The role of rust erasers is to remove surface oxidation. Therefore, the amount of abrasion is very minimal. It may not occur on every stone, as I stated I think in this video. I don't think I ever noticed the difference, on my Shapton Glass stones. The Nano Hone stones on the other hand, are all about that texture. It is what sets them apart, from other brands. Nagura stones would probably smooth the texture as well. I have several dressings stones, as well as natural Nagura. After I lap and condition some of my finer stones, I run my Nagura over them, to help remove any coarseness that is present. Admittedly I do not do this as often as I used to, but in a sense, I am glazing the finer stones, on purpose. To truly texture a stone, and condition the surface, I would recommend Silicon powder. Loose sic grit, on glass, has been the best option, I have found. It is inexpensive, and the surface conditioning can be tailored, to any texture level you desire. If you want super coarse aggression, you can lap your stone with 96 grit. Have a 1k stone, that is feeling slick? Lap it with 220 sic grit. Too coarse? Lap it again with 400 grit sic powder. Lately, I tend to flatten my stones with 96 grit. I then condition them with 120/220, and leave them all there. My super fine stones (5k+) I will run my Nagura across, to smooth them out some. Hope that helps. I recommend trying several variations, of all mentioned above as well as in the video, and finding what works best for you! Cheers
Thank you for your quick response. I have actually found you after a recent video (two weeks ago) from Murray Carter (CarterCutlery) who endorsed the nano hone system. So... I looked for videos about the nano hone system and there you go... your videos popped up. Actually there are not so many videos out there that have thoroughly tested this system. Usually, they are about Naniwa, Shapton, Norton, King, and so on stones, you know, the big brands. So it was a glad surprise finding your videos. Anyway, thanks again for your quick answer and good luck with your channel.
@@uhonubal1277 Right on. I only made 3 or 4 videos showing these stones off. My buddy I heart knives did a fantastic series using them, with many different steels. I would recommend checking his videos out. He sharpened not only folding knives, but some kitchen cutlery as well. I'll post a link to his channel below th-cam.com/channels/z5QtJTsslWHJC7Itbiu7_g.html
Thanks for the reference and the link. Though, I have already watched those videos. I usually do a deep research when I am interested in a topic :) Take care and see you soon.
@@Jef Hello. Your video was posted on TH-cam 4 years ago. I'm interested in your opinion about the nano hone plate after so many years, what its condition is, whether it has worn out much and whether it works well now.
The stupid glaze with the rust eraser!!!! I have that happen too!!!! Now I’m being stupid because I’m commenting before I watched the full video but I want to say I experience that too. The rust eraser doesn’t do great for a Nagura for me
It removes swarf well, but for these stones, at the cost of the surface conditioning. I will have to play around with it, on my other stones, to see if I can feel a difference.
Very interesting. I’m curious to see if a newer atoma will give a more aggressive bite. Maybe the newer and coarser the diamond plate is the better the bite is on the lower grit 400/500 grit ceramic stones.
I'm sure the new plate would give results similar to the DMT. They eventually wear, however. Give me some Sic and glass any day, over diamond lapping plates :)
Jef Jewell I use 80-120 grit so it doesn’t glaze the stones. It puts pretty deep scratches. Depends on the stones though. For the most part I use the atoma 140
Not sure if I used 120, or lower. I know I’ve tried 220, and the results were glazed. In particular on Arkansas stones. I’ll have to give it another try and test it.
You could probably level the Spyderco Uf, but you will run the possibility of dulling the diamonds. Ceramic is pretty rough on those. Personally, I would use Sic abrasive powder, and just refresh it as it breaks down. Other water stones shouldn't pose a problem. The Atoma will work well on most, if not all, synthetic stones.
Oy tough deciscion...Nano Hone feel awesome, but Shapton Pro remain in a very close spot to my heart lol. Honestly, I don't know. The Shapton Pro are amazing, hard, low wear, cut many different steel types. The Nano Hone on the other hand, feel awesome. They really have something special, in the way they feel. A tad more friable the Shaptons, and thicker than Shapton Glass. They are very attractive, when shopping around. You can not go wrong, with either set.
They are excellent stones, don't get me wrong. They cut well, leave consistent scratch patterns, do everything you want a synthetic stone to do. However, they feel dead to me. The tactile feedback is not great. They have plenty of audible feedback. They will scream at ya, like any good stone will, if you do something wrong. The feel is just not there. I could say the same thing about Shapton Pro's 5k. It is a bit lifeless. I wouldn't go so far as to say soulless, but there isn't much there.
Jef Jewell Okay, that helps. I was thinking about buying some Shapton pro’s until you reviewed these stones. Thanks for the information. I really enjoy your sharpening video’s great content.
Thank you! I appreciate the kind words. Like Bp mentioned to another viewer, if you are after Shapton, check the Kuromaku series on Amazon first. Same stones, different name, and cheaper. Can save yourself some bucks. Now if your heart is set on the Glass series, look no further than these stones. Hands down, all around, better :)
lol i have that same little petty prep knife I use as a sharpening mule to basically just try out stones and whatnot. It's sitting right here next to my 4k SG I just got. I'm not sure what you don't like about them SG stones, I find em solid. I'd like my 400 and 1k chosera, but compared to the 3k chosera I find the 4k glass to be a better stone in many ways, higher polish yet it seems to sharpens faster as well, and it's half the cost, at least unit to unit, it's only 5 mm of abrasive vs 20 or 25 with a chosera export or jdm. Above that say the finishers, 6k to 16k vs 5k to 10k in chosera, the glass stones are competitive but come in cheaper if that matters. Certainly more choice in the glass at those grits. I guess the chosera is still better if I really think about it but it's hard to tell, hard to make sense of it, not that it really matters.
Yes. I have it for my edge pro and reprofile knives with it occasionally. Good plate for the price, but Atoma still reigns, in terms of quality. I've had the adhesive loosen on it several times, and had to reglue it myself. The plate is like my Atoma now. Pretty worn down, but still functional.
@@CC-wolverine They aren't too bad esp for the price. They do wear, and mine is pretty old, but it still works. I guess it is all about how much use they actually see. I've probably had a good 50 knives under mine, full reprofiles. I predict I could easily get another 30 before it is cashed out.
Didn't have one, nor will I be buying one. I've gotten all I can out of diamonds, and have no desire to use any more. Unless they are given to me, I won't spend any more money on em. Better, cheaper options, available.
I wouldn't say invalid. Atoma is pretty well known for being better quality than DMT. My newer DMT conditioned the stone very well, so it wouldn't be a large logic leap, to say Atoma would perform well. As with all things, I encourage you to try them for yourself and find what works for you.
In my opinion, absolutely. Would I take it over the Imanishi Latte 400? No. That stone, has a scratchy texture, all on it's own, and is by far, my favorite 200-600 grit stone. Would I choose it (Nano Hone 400) over Shapton Glass 500, Shapton Pro 320, or Naniwa Pro 400? Yep. You bet I would.
@dom bond not sure if you got my email address before but here it is: sethzwright2113@gmail.com Was waiting for an email but never saw anything from you. Just wanted make sure you had it :)
![โรงเรียนห้ามรัก โดนจับได้ตาย...!! [เอิร์นไดเม่]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/4u02Sbr556Q/mqdefault.jpg)
![일상 속 기분 좋음 [Proto disco meme]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/DwmEIaZ7XGQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Yet another great video Jeff. As the designer of these plates, I would say you discovered a lot of what i'm trying to accomplish. I'll throw out a couple of my thoughts. The surface of any stone has a topology that looks like a mountain range. The entire surface is a microscopic mountain range. I'm going to use 1 micron as a simple example. If a stone is made up of 1 micron particles held together in some kind of binder. Then, the 1 micron particles are the mountain peaks and the binder is generally the valleys. Question, how flat does the stone have to be to be for a perfectly flat bevel to contact 50% of the mountain peaks across the surface of the stone? My answer is +/- 1 micron or, a range of 0-2 microns. there are several parameters that come into play that can alter the dynamic but, my point is, the flatter the stone, the more peaks you will contact in a given pass while sharpening. Thats why the edge seems to suck down on the surface after its been "groomed" with the NL-5. Yes, I can make the plate to a lower standard than I have and, save a few dollars. But, the result will not be as satisfying. And control will deteriorate. In my experiments, I have found that any lapping plate that doesn't have substantial relief grooves will cause "surfing". When the plate surfs on the slurry on top of the stone, it cannot groom the surface because it isn't making even contact with the surface. That's why I designed lots of relief into the plate. Further, I found that it is the edges of the structures that are doing most of the work. So, I used the star and hexagon pattern to increase the length of the edges in the top of the plate. The combination of those three elements flatness, relief and lots of edges come together to make a reliable grooming tool. These same observations hold up just as well at larger particle sizes. Use our 35 micron (400 grit range) stone as an example. To contact 50% of the peaks, the plate must be flat to at least +/- 35 microns or 0-70 microns. Currently we guarantee that our NL-5 is at least +/- 25 microns measured after the diamonds are on the plate. (Shapton quotes a better number but that is a measurement of the surface of the plate before the diamonds go on) So, based on that math, Jeff is actually grooming more than 50% of the abrasive particles in the surface of the stone. And, thats a really good thing for creating foundation geometry. That will carry forward to even better results with finer stones.
@Jacoby Santana thanks for purchasing our plate Jacoby, please keep us posted with your thoughts
I’ve never even considered nanohone until I read this comment. Now, I’m going to be up late looking at nanohone products.
@@park3y thank you, lots of new products since this video came out
That was great being able to hear the feedback and see the metal removal. Thanks pal. Atb paddy 👍😀☘️
Excellent. I was hoping it would help out, but I haven't been to happy with my other close up shots.
Well done mate
Your video showed up differences in each plate.
Clear sound on feedback plus clear explanation really helped achieve this.
Lookin forward to your next sharpening video on these stones.
Cheers 😁
Thanks! Glad it all worked out.
Hey Great Idea Using the Suction grip thingy jeff.💡💡💡😝🤘
Great video. It has to be cool to be sent these products for evaluation. I always appreciate your honest opinion. Thank you.
thanks for checking it out. Receiving products like this helps me check out stuff I might otherwise miss, or just not be interested in. The Nano Hone for example, I had assumed were just repackaged, over priced, Shapton glass. Was I ever wrong!
Ive got a worn 140 atoma as well. You might be able to get away with it on a 400 grit stone... Once the stone is flat you turn the 140 sideways to minimize the contact area. Itd probably help to do it under running water so that the loose grit gets washed away instead of cushioning the 140 plate
Hi Jef
Thank you for this video. It was very helpful to me. :-)
Greetings from Chieming, Bavaria
Have a nice day
Thanks for checking it out
Was this DMT their Dia-Flat Lapping Plate or one of their Dia-Sharp models? Cheers
Edit: nvm, I can see it’s the “Dia-Sharp” not their lapping plate advertised solely for flattening sharpening stones
Cheers, i was thinking the same Question bro.😄👍
@@jasonedwardledburynewzeala9897 The DIA flat is imo the best one on the market. It's bigger tho, thats how you can tell. The regular plates are 8x3 like most stones. The dia flat is 10x4 inches. They last forever. If you have a need for them and can get a good cost, they are worth it.
Interesting to see how the rust eraser glazed the stone even more. I am wandering how it will works on clay or resin based stones. You should try Missarka FEPA 500 from finetools - interesting sintered Al2O3 stone. Great presentation as always. Have a nice day.
I looked at buying the Haidu series, but can't find anyone that will ship to the US. The MissArka have always caught my eye, since watching your vids. I just never got around to em.
A valuable and interesting breakdown on diamond plate options. How about comparing the NanoHone plate to an inexpensive
Unfortunately these were just loaned to me from a buddy. If the cheap plate is in new condition, and not worn down terrible, it should have the same results as my dmt here.
I know this is a old video but if you see this remark could you sometimes lap with the nano hone plates and mark the stone before you lap with DMT and then re lap with nano hone and mark stone then lap with the atoma and then you could see if dmt and the atoma plate was flat. I am talking about lapping with out sharpening in-between lapping
I no longer have the nano hone plate. It was borrowed from a viewer. However, i have lapped with my dmt and atoma plenty of times. Both plates are flat. Are they micro precisioned flatness, like the nano hone? No. For my needs, and i would say 99% of everyone else, they are flat enough
Thanks for the video it was an answer to a question I didn't have but good to know how the different plates react to the nano homes when flattening. The nano hone stones seem like really good stones. Going to try and decide between them, the Shapton pros and some Arkansas stones.
Right on. They are all excellent in their own ways.
Interesting video, thanks for the time and effort to do the comparison.
Thanks for checking it out :) It was actually a bit eye opening. I can see why the Nano Hone would be popular. Price is still a deterrent for me, but I can appreciate the effect it has, on the stones.
Very interesting stuff.
I would think that a clean abrasive matrix plate could not be made any smoother than its base grit shape and size as it naturally fractures. I can see how it can be artificially made more aggressive by forming much larger hidden scratches, such that at the microscopic level, the stone surface is far from flat, being like a flat gravel field with deep single track motocross trails everywhere (not bad per se, just not the design intention). I would think that its maximally smooth performance is the actual desired default state for that grit. If you want a coarser bite, the user should change to the next larger honing stone grit size (go from 35 micron to 70 micron) or to another grit shape (aluminum oxide vs SiC, etc). Note my comments apply only to a clean sharpening stone, where the pores are not filled with swarf, and not to a diamond plate where the shape of the diamond particles remaining, the spacing/density of the diamonds and the average and peak heights of the diamonds all matter, which is why there are three distinct stages of a monocrystalline diamond plate (new, semi-broken in, and well used).
It is largely this changing nature and inconsistency in the diamond height above the nickel surface that makes using them and comparing them problematic. I frequently see people compare a 5 year old diamond stone that still cuts well to a new one from another manufacture. This is largely a useless comparison, and one has diamonds that are almost all the same height above the nickel, and that height is only about 10% of the diamond overall height. The new plate has diamonds of basically the same size, but widely varying heights above that nickel surface (10% to 70% or more). In the uniform height condition, only about 1% of the thousands of diamonds scratches the hard steel, whereas the new plate has 10 or 100 that imbed 10% or more in the steel due the increased force/area, with the others barely touching the surface if at all. Neither the old nor the new is bad. They just are not the same plates. Not even close.
I am curious about @Nano Hone's opinion on these points.
They replied in another video. Thanks for your insights. 👍
Hey Jef I'm new to your channel and I first want to say thank you for being honest that being said I'm a fairly new to sharpening knives or I should say I'm new at being able to sharpen a knife to hair popping sharp but I've mainly just used diamond stones and I'm wanting to find a good set of stones be they made of what ever as long as they are reasonably priced and good quality and they perform as they should could you recommend some for me to try out and again great video I look forward to hearing from you and to watching future videos of yours
Check out my video on it
th-cam.com/video/fcprUHO4Zgs/w-d-xo.html
Hello. Your video was posted on TH-cam 4 years ago. I'm interested in your opinion about the nano hone plate after so many years, what its condition is, whether it has worn out much and whether it works well now.
Unfortunately, i did not buy these plates. They were sent to me, by a friend on youtube. He wanted to get my opinion of them, so i made a few videos. I do not know how they hold up 🤷♂️
Sorry. Wish i had more info for you. I can say, my Shapton pro are still going strong. 😁 Been using those for years
So maybe a dumb question, but do you get different edge finishes with the different surface finishes? In other words, can you get sort of a poor-man's way around say two stones just by changing the surface finish of the one stone?
I think thats a great question. It leads into lots of areas for consideration. My short answer is yes, you will get different scratch patterns from stones that have been groomed with various grit lapping plates. I don't think i'ts useful as a substitute for multiple abrasive sizes but, I do think it can be very useful when sharpening various kinds of steel.
As Nano Hone pointed out, the short answer, yes. Surface conditioning, on a friable stone, isn't nearly as important, as it is for a non friable stone. Take an Arkansas Stone as an example. It is basically one lump of abrasive. Nothing sheds off the stone, as you sharpen on it. With use, the surface glazes, and cutting is considerably reduced. With water stones, they are constantly releasing abrasive particles, and therefor continue to cut, even if the surface isn't optimal.
A Spyderco Ceramic Uf and Fine stone, are the same abrasive, just surface conditioned differently. Or so I have heard. I do not know for certain. However, you can turn a UF stone, into something leaning on the aggression of a Spyderco Medium stone, or make it so fine, that it only burnishes the steel. Conditioning the surface allows you to really tailor a stone, to your own preferences. Want it to cut fast? Lap it with very coarse abrasive particles, like 46 grit Silicon carbide powder. Want it to leave a fine scratch pattern? Lap it with several Sic grits, and leave the finish on the surface smooth.
For an Arkansas stone, and similar abrasives, I would say conditioning is mandatory. The Norton India is another excellent example of this. Hope that makes sense. Obviously condensed, and there are tons of nuances to every stone. Some benefit more than others, from conditioning.
Hi Jef, I am new here... but I have to say that this is a very nice video. Thanks for running these tests and spread the knowledge :)Interesting the glazing effect you got on the stone by using the rust eraser. I could see that it is a Sabitoru medium grit (white kanji)... do you think that the stone would feel glazed as well using a rust eraser with coarser grit (as the Sabitoru with blue kanji). I am wondering what would be the result by using a nagura (dressing) stone after lapping the stone with the atoma plate... I think it could help to get rid of the glazed feeling.What do you think about these questions? Again, nice video. Now, I am on board on your channel (basically for your plain speaking honesty).All the best!
Thanks for the kind words. If you don't mind me asking, how did you discover my channel? I am always interested to learn how folks find me :)
To your questions, I think any rust eraser, will cause the glazed feeling. They are just very fine, even on the coarsest grit. The role of rust erasers is to remove surface oxidation. Therefore, the amount of abrasion is very minimal. It may not occur on every stone, as I stated I think in this video. I don't think I ever noticed the difference, on my Shapton Glass stones. The Nano Hone stones on the other hand, are all about that texture. It is what sets them apart, from other brands.
Nagura stones would probably smooth the texture as well. I have several dressings stones, as well as natural Nagura. After I lap and condition some of my finer stones, I run my Nagura over them, to help remove any coarseness that is present. Admittedly I do not do this as often as I used to, but in a sense, I am glazing the finer stones, on purpose.
To truly texture a stone, and condition the surface, I would recommend Silicon powder. Loose sic grit, on glass, has been the best option, I have found. It is inexpensive, and the surface conditioning can be tailored, to any texture level you desire. If you want super coarse aggression, you can lap your stone with 96 grit. Have a 1k stone, that is feeling slick? Lap it with 220 sic grit. Too coarse? Lap it again with 400 grit sic powder.
Lately, I tend to flatten my stones with 96 grit. I then condition them with 120/220, and leave them all there. My super fine stones (5k+) I will run my Nagura across, to smooth them out some.
Hope that helps. I recommend trying several variations, of all mentioned above as well as in the video, and finding what works best for you! Cheers
Thank you for your quick response. I have actually found you after a recent video (two weeks ago) from Murray Carter (CarterCutlery) who endorsed the nano hone system. So... I looked for videos about the nano hone system and there you go... your videos popped up. Actually there are not so many videos out there that have thoroughly tested this system. Usually, they are about Naniwa, Shapton, Norton, King, and so on stones, you know, the big brands. So it was a glad surprise finding your videos. Anyway, thanks again for your quick answer and good luck with your channel.
@@uhonubal1277 Right on. I only made 3 or 4 videos showing these stones off. My buddy I heart knives did a fantastic series using them, with many different steels. I would recommend checking his videos out. He sharpened not only folding knives, but some kitchen cutlery as well. I'll post a link to his channel below
th-cam.com/channels/z5QtJTsslWHJC7Itbiu7_g.html
Thanks for the reference and the link. Though, I have already watched those videos. I usually do a deep research when I am interested in a topic :) Take care and see you soon.
@@Jef Hello. Your video was posted on TH-cam 4 years ago. I'm interested in your opinion about the nano hone plate after so many years, what its condition is, whether it has worn out much and whether it works well now.
The stupid glaze with the rust eraser!!!! I have that happen too!!!! Now I’m being stupid because I’m commenting before I watched the full video but I want to say I experience that too. The rust eraser doesn’t do great for a Nagura for me
It removes swarf well, but for these stones, at the cost of the surface conditioning. I will have to play around with it, on my other stones, to see if I can feel a difference.
Very interesting. I’m curious to see if a newer atoma will give a more aggressive bite. Maybe the newer and coarser the diamond plate is the better the bite is on the lower grit 400/500 grit ceramic stones.
I'm sure the new plate would give results similar to the DMT. They eventually wear, however. Give me some Sic and glass any day, over diamond lapping plates :)
Jef Jewell lol even glass and sandpaper!
Not for me. Sandpaper, in my experience, does the same thing as the rust eraser. It glazes the stones.
Jef Jewell I use 80-120 grit so it doesn’t glaze the stones. It puts pretty deep scratches. Depends on the stones though. For the most part I use the atoma 140
Not sure if I used 120, or lower. I know I’ve tried 220, and the results were glazed. In particular on Arkansas stones. I’ll have to give it another try and test it.
Hi Jeff, I plan to buy Atoma 140, what do you think, is it possible to level small stones with this plate? for example Spyderco Ultra Fine?
You could probably level the Spyderco Uf, but you will run the possibility of dulling the diamonds. Ceramic is pretty rough on those. Personally, I would use Sic abrasive powder, and just refresh it as it breaks down. Other water stones shouldn't pose a problem. The Atoma will work well on most, if not all, synthetic stones.
@@Jef oh thank you Jef 🤗
id ont wanna rough surface on a 12k stone that should put a mirror finish on my straight razor. You are trying to make it feel like 300 grit stone
Hey Jeff, is your DMT just the standard 120 grit? 8 x 3 .answered in the comment section.👍 i should have read first.🤣🤘
no worries :)
Great video 👍🙂
Thank you! I appreciate it
3:50 Henkel is high carbon steel?
According to the engraving on its side. I couldn’t tell you one way or another
@@Jef I think on average are mid 50’s Rockwell.
How do these nano stones compare to shapton pros I’m bout to buy a set which one do u prefer or recommend to buy
Oy tough deciscion...Nano Hone feel awesome, but Shapton Pro remain in a very close spot to my heart lol. Honestly, I don't know. The Shapton Pro are amazing, hard, low wear, cut many different steel types. The Nano Hone on the other hand, feel awesome. They really have something special, in the way they feel. A tad more friable the Shaptons, and thicker than Shapton Glass. They are very attractive, when shopping around. You can not go wrong, with either set.
Ok I really am leaning to shapton pro maybe try the nanos later thanks for the response and great vids 👍
Brandon Robinson also get the kurnomaku stones same as the pros but cheaper find em on amazon if you decide on the pros
@@brandonrobinson819 if you did go for the nano hone stones sharpening supplies. Com has them for the cheapest price
@@bp-hx9ts Excellent point. I should have caught that myself. The Shapton Kuromaku will save you some money.
At 1:32 you said Shapton glass . Felt totally soulless. What do you mean by that ? I’m assuming no feed back.
They are excellent stones, don't get me wrong. They cut well, leave consistent scratch patterns, do everything you want a synthetic stone to do. However, they feel dead to me. The tactile feedback is not great. They have plenty of audible feedback. They will scream at ya, like any good stone will, if you do something wrong. The feel is just not there. I could say the same thing about Shapton Pro's 5k. It is a bit lifeless. I wouldn't go so far as to say soulless, but there isn't much there.
Jef Jewell Okay, that helps. I was thinking about buying some Shapton pro’s until you reviewed these stones. Thanks for the information. I really enjoy your sharpening video’s great content.
Thank you! I appreciate the kind words. Like Bp mentioned to another viewer, if you are after Shapton, check the Kuromaku series on Amazon first. Same stones, different name, and cheaper. Can save yourself some bucks. Now if your heart is set on the Glass series, look no further than these stones. Hands down, all around, better :)
lol i have that same little petty prep knife I use as a sharpening mule to basically just try out stones and whatnot. It's sitting right here next to my 4k SG I just got. I'm not sure what you don't like about them SG stones, I find em solid. I'd like my 400 and 1k chosera, but compared to the 3k chosera I find the 4k glass to be a better stone in many ways, higher polish yet it seems to sharpens faster as well, and it's half the cost, at least unit to unit, it's only 5 mm of abrasive vs 20 or 25 with a chosera export or jdm. Above that say the finishers, 6k to 16k vs 5k to 10k in chosera, the glass stones are competitive but come in cheaper if that matters. Certainly more choice in the glass at those grits. I guess the chosera is still better if I really think about it but it's hard to tell, hard to make sense of it, not that it really matters.
I find the glass stones to be terrible for high carbide steels. Including m390, and many tool steels. Shapton pro doesn’t exhibit these problems
Well good to know the plates work well better for 180 lol still don’t think there worth it honestly
Ditto
Have you ever tried the 140 diamond plate from CKTG. Suppose to be similar to a atoma but only 30 bux.
Yes. I have it for my edge pro and reprofile knives with it occasionally. Good plate for the price, but Atoma still reigns, in terms of quality. I've had the adhesive loosen on it several times, and had to reglue it myself. The plate is like my Atoma now. Pretty worn down, but still functional.
@@Jef oh okay I've heard that they were good plates for cheap but didn't last long for some people. But the reviews sounded pretty good for them
@@CC-wolverine They aren't too bad esp for the price. They do wear, and mine is pretty old, but it still works. I guess it is all about how much use they actually see. I've probably had a good 50 knives under mine, full reprofiles. I predict I could easily get another 30 before it is cashed out.
@@Jef nice ya I probably try and grab one of the flattening plates along with a strop when I decide on stones.
Fair comparison? Why not use a new Atoma ?
Didn't have one, nor will I be buying one. I've gotten all I can out of diamonds, and have no desire to use any more. Unless they are given to me, I won't spend any more money on em. Better, cheaper options, available.
Jef Jewell yes indeed but comparison still invalid re worthless Atoma..
I wouldn't say invalid. Atoma is pretty well known for being better quality than DMT. My newer DMT conditioned the stone very well, so it wouldn't be a large logic leap, to say Atoma would perform well. As with all things, I encourage you to try them for yourself and find what works for you.
@@Jef What options are available? I'm genuinely curious what else is available, thanks in advance.
Doesn’t that destroy the diamond plates?
My Atoma plate says yes. However, the NL-5 plate, made by Nano Hone, is designed specifically for lapping. How long will it last? Only time will tell
Is the nano 400 worth buying
In my opinion, absolutely. Would I take it over the Imanishi Latte 400? No. That stone, has a scratchy texture, all on it's own, and is by far, my favorite 200-600 grit stone. Would I choose it (Nano Hone 400) over Shapton Glass 500, Shapton Pro 320, or Naniwa Pro 400? Yep. You bet I would.
I wonder how an interrupted diamond would work?
Would probably go bald
Shot ya an email to check out
@@Jef ya I just watched thank you!
@dom bond not sure if you got my email address before but here it is: sethzwright2113@gmail.com
Was waiting for an email but never saw anything from you. Just wanted make sure you had it :)