BENIGN Narcissists: Everything you need to know (Part 1/2)
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DISCLAIMER: THIS INFORMATION IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT INTENDED TO BE A SUBSTITUTE FOR CLINICAL CARE. PLEASE CONSULT A HEALTH CARE PROVIDER FOR GUIDANCE SPECIFIC TO YOUR CASE. THIS VIDEO DISCUSSES NARCISSISM IN GENERAL.
THE VIDEO DOES NOT REFER TO ANY SPECIFIC PERSON, AND SHOULD NOT BE USED TO REFER TO ANY SPECIFIC PERSON, AS HAVING NARCISSISM. PERMISSION IS NOT GRANTED TO LINK TO OR REPOST THIS VIDEO, ESPECIALLY TO SUPPORT AN ALLEGATION THAT THE MAKERS OF THIS VIDEO BELIEVE, OR SUPPORT A CLAIM, THAT A SPECIFIC PERSON IS A NARCISSIST. THAT WOULD BE AN UNAUTHORIZED MISUSE OF THE VIDEO AND THE INFORMATION FEATURED IN IT.
My mom was a covert narc and my dad was a benign narc. No one ever believed me when I cried out for help. Everyone thought they were such nice people
I feel so angry-in-solidarity about this kind of invalidation experienced by kids. We wanted help. And we deserved it.
I've been there too. My entire life. Til this day they tell everyone don't listen to her she's just crazy.
Same. The nice looking ones are the worst.
Sounds like my inlaws.
I hate the 'but they're sooo nice' in response to telling someone about abuse. Yeah no shit they can be appear nice, manipulators are great at that.
N O C O N T A C T ‼ Do not reach out to them...EVER ‼
Everything they say and do is calculated in order to get something from you. Remember how you felt in the end. Remember how you feel today. Does that shit feel good to you?
Why would you consider trying it again?
Stay away and get back to being the beautiful person you are............ New & Improved
When you stated everything is calculated to get something from you is spot on!! You clearly have a wise understanding and been through the pain just as I have . Thanks for sharing your words of wisdom
I have a hard time in the wee hours but not last night, my monkey mind full of what if this, what if that, but I can't control the universe, it's all been going on long enough, now I say, it's their karma, standing clear is best! My karma's good, that's why I'm here with all of you! 😘
@@Niles-Guy I'm not out of the woods yet but I do have a clear understanding about the behavior. Unfortunately for me my understanding came after the fact! I come and represent everday to hopefully help the next person who may be in a earlier stage and struggling.
@@joseenoel8093 I get like that at times. Knowledge, meditation, and knowing when to hand it over to God has been working for me so far
@@Niles-Guy They only want supply!
"Stuck in an eternal adolescence "... Yep.
Yes!
Ingela Thune-Boyle,You are beautiful 🌹🌹🌷,hope you are not with a narc 😈!
I was raised by a narcissistic father and I definitely struggle with people pleasing and putting my needs behind everyone else's.
Being needed is a good feeling, narcs miss out, their never ending grasp 👊 for our happiness, they don't get it, we now do, their power quenched!
Ditto. Although, my parents weren’t narcs, they were alcoholics. In fact my Mum was an empath and so am I. After spending three years with a covert narc I have come to my senses though and am done with always sacrificing for others. It’s not easy to change it though. I still care for others, but now that I’m over 40 maybe it’s time for a bit of self care.
Mine too! Covert. Him _and_ his mother, who lived with us. They tormented the crap out of my mom, my younger sister, and I. I'm glad I at least now can make sense of that nightmarish childhood and begin to heal and stop feeling like I was the bad one all along...
For you to realize this shows how strong of character you are.
Same here
This is an eye opener. I just realised a friend I had been hanging out with could be one of these. She’s loud, full of fun, has a wide circle of friends whom she introduced me to... it was exhilarating spending time with her. She knew every piece of gossip about everyone and enjoyed sharing those gossips around. The red flag was spotted when she told me a tragic news about her close friend as if it was a joke. Anyone else would’ve been devastated hearing it but she conveyed it as if it’s a storyline of a movie. No empathy whatsoever. And I realised at that point that she was an insensitive, superficial friend who’s only interested in being the bearer of information to secure the attention of others.
Well spotted! So keep your distance from now on.
Erika5, oh yes! Initially I was mesmerised and caught up with the fun she offered. When I realised something was amiss, I went no contact and blocked her when she kept trying to hoover me back in. I’m glad now that I listened to my gut.
yobrojoost, done👍🏼. Not been in touch with her for 2 years😊
Yes. Know one too.
@Erika5, YES! Good advice! I was almost speechless when someone I know asked me about a close friend of mine who is married, if she has affairs? This made me want to distance myself, and over time and other red flags, I dropped her. She didn't know that I knew my close friend didn't want anything to do with her, and didn't try to hide it. Another of her schemes, is to appear as though she's on good terms with everyone, and doesn't have any enemies. Over time, I found out the opposite is true, but she'll do this to make the other person who she did the dirt to, look like they've got the problem. Very few people trust her. Oh, and by the way, I later found out that SHE has affairs!!!
I would argue that benign narcs are toxic. Being around them feels like having a low grade fever.
Yes they may be fun but its draining to be around someone who is all about rhemselves
Well said! That is EXACTLY how it feels!
Lol! Good comparison. Or just a tiny drip on the forehead that eventually drives you mad!
Being married to one contributed to my very real literal low grade fever for well over a year. My chronic illness made me no longer fun to be around/a bad supply. Just ended the marraige and eager to regain my health!
Stomach ache for me. Anxious
Honestly Dr. Ramani, I think I'd listen to you talk about anything. You could do daily vlogs about nothing and I'd still watch 'em. You've got a for real charm and charisma about you. I dunno, just thinking out loud.
Me too... I want to see Dr. Ramani everyday with her knowledge📚📚
Haha I adore her... Is it bad to admit I definitely kind of have an "online crush" on her? 😅😂
Yes but her brilliant knowledge is a factor
Yes!!! I thought I was the only one who felt that way! She's very charming and witty and so well-spoken. Definitely feel this is her calling.
The erotic transference can be a strong tether.... and makes the medicine go down sweetly.
Who else loves this series!? I watch it every morning, first thing, while restarting my no-contact helps me to realize that I’m not the bad one.
Edit: Thank You Dr. Ramani! That made my day! ❤️
I wish you all the best on your way and a lot of strength to hold your ground:)
Brittany Love, Me too! Dr. Ramani is great! She's helping so many.
Yes whenever I start to feel bad I watch a video and I feel sooooooo much better!
I'm in Australia, so the post appear in the early hours of the morning. So I listen whilst having breakfast. Known my mother was a narc for about 2 years and suspected my father was one. And I've been researching narcissism since I discovered my mother was one. But this series has helped me crystalise what both parents were and hopefully I'll be able to cope better. And I like the way Dr Ramani speaks, in a very calm and gentle way. Some get a bit excited, which seems to feed my anxiety.
Jenny P I hope you find peace and healing! My sons dad is one and that’s what started my research and I stumbled across this amazing knowledgeable woman. I hope one day when you have children that you will be able to stop the cycle of family trauma/abuse. I know I try for my son. Nobody is perfect and our parents try the best they can with what they have. Just remember that okay? Narcissistic abuse is demoralizing and traumatizing. I hope one day that you can forgive your parents, not because they deserve your forgiveness but because you do!! I’ve forgiven all of my abusers (physical/sexual/emotional) so I know it’s easier said than done. When you do you will see that they really are sick people. If you believe in God, Pray!! Pray for them like you would a sick friend.
This makes a lot of sense. Anyone else tired of people blaming you for getting involved with a narcissist?
Jozie MaXine me !me! Me!
Yes it's my fault for no seeing covert mom coming and next time I'll be more prepared should be happy for the forced sink or swim 🏊 education by professional evil birth mother.
@@TheRightQuestionsLeft yes it's true. When I found out that my mother is a covert narcissist thuswise I found myself being married to a narcissist. Before my marriage I didn't know anything about narcissism or about abuse within my family since my very birth ( always blaming myself for not being good enough) therefore I didn't recognize the red flags that are so obvious to me now! So here I am learning and dealing with all this stuff..🤕😥
Me too.. And after learning about narcissism, I want to tell them his a narcissist. But decided not to, its not easy and they will later tell me that I am the crazy one🤔
@@vanessalifewithJ no! Don't tell them! They know very well who they are. If you tell them that you know, it will trigger narcissistic rage, and that's not safe for you..
(17 year old son) currently quarantined with my narcissistic mother who called me a narcissist and tells me her ex is one lol (she is 40). She is crazy and I have no respect for her. I was the invisible child growing up, I’m a empty kid and I don’t even know what its like to have feelings. I plan to get out of here before I turn 18 and then seek therapy because I believe it is not mentally healthy for a child who went through this his whole life. I can then proceed to enter the world of being independent instead of codependent. I live by the word *humble*. I know theres more in life, I know it gets better, and I know it’s going to come 🙏. Its only a matter of time 🥺.
Erick Teamwork I’m a therapist, you are not alone.... you have great insight and that is most of the healing. Sending love. I’m in gratitude for you having the internet to know it’s not your fault! A good attitude, good work ethic and not personalizing is your successful out. The channel School of Life is awesome too.
You're already more than halfway there, Erick. You see it for what it is, and that it's not your fault. All you need to do now is to get out and have experiences with healthy people. Keep your vibe high!
My nephew if your has the same problem with my sister...:(... this is impossible to entangle if he doesn't realize the toxicity
Greatly appreciate your comments ❤️
Erick Teamwork I applaud you for seeing your mom for who she is and realising that you will need counseling when you are finally able to get out on your own. You are a very rare individual. I applaud you and have to say, that with your attitude and obvious intelligence and strength, you are going to be fine. As a therapist myself, may I suggest the way to find a good therapist because this is crucial. Interview the therapist, ask them what methodology they use, if they have experience with narcissists, what their philosophy about therapy and life in general is, and any other question that you feel is important. Some therapists will consent to an interview and may charge you just a small fee, if you let's say only ask for a half hour of their time and/or explain that you are a young person and don't have much money, but really want to heal. Some therapist offices have more than one therapist and work on what they call, a sliding scale. In other words, they adjust their fee to your income. Most importantly, ask yourself how you feel around this person - in other words - are they giving you a good vibe. If not, move on to the next name on the list. Be patient, trust your intuition, and you will find the right one because a person's positive therapeutic relationship is the most important ingredient to a successful outcome. Best of luck to you. 😊
I've never heard of benign narcissism. I was with a covert off and on for 5 years, and recently finally broke free. I don't want any parts of any kind of narcissist ever again.
I am figuring out if we would forget who people are to us (titles like oh, but that's my mom, child, brother, spouse etc) if we reflect on how they make us feel we will discover how much people in are life are abusing us. It doesn't matter if it's a toxic parent or adult child we need to recognize it. I never knew till recently just how much abuse & put downs I was experiencing from others. When I was little I was labeled as bad. So we dismiss toxic behavior from others thinking we are the problem.
Me too Libby. If you are not saying yes to these people you are the bad daughter, bad sister, bad friend, bad wife ,bad women , bad colleague, bad DIL.... But the moment you start taking care of yourself, you realize these titles were nothing but just Gaslighting to make you do what they want.
Proud and happy to be bad and selfish with such snakes.......
Thinking for yourself is a no-no, I've had to explain, spell it out to wanna be narc hubby that a difference in opinion is 'not' a 'slight' and, that, his opinion is fine (64) but... Our son (21) needs 'his own' head, thoughts on his shoulders, working functioning for himself.... It is his right, it is also what is needed for his sanity, his thoughts in his brain to function properly. Our son was difficult, slow to mature but he's now so amazing yet chooses to stay single, he's content, leave him he, help when you can! 🎉🎈🎊🎓
Oh boy, thank you for all of this that you said. Wow! This is so true. We do this so much to ourselves because it is coming from family members. Forget it! No thanks.
Wow this is so true. If it was any other stranger, there’s no way we’d tolerate that shit. But because they’re “family “ all of a sudden it’s okay to? Hell no.
I really love these people like Dr Ramani & Lisa A Romano. From what I've experienced & realizing in my own life. They are absolutely 💯 on what they teach. But only willing ears will hear. I was codependent with many narcissistic traits myself, and everything I've heard Dr Ramani & other teachers like her, it's so very accurate.
I used to become "frozen" in 'agreeableness'
...the old "go along to get along "....
Theres definitely something to your theory!
“Turn the other cheek” was the lesson given to me...it kept me perpetually allowing people to hurt me.
AKA The "nice" narcissist. Man, those take a lot of time and are HARD to pinpoint! I have a friend who is like that. And YES, they are all into having fun big time! Their life revolves around that (and making money and/or a name for themselves). With my personality type, they have no choice but to get a little deep because I oblige it, but it does take them out of their default mode and it does little to nothing in forming a bond with them. Deepness is not a priority to them. Neither is intimacy and they are very self absorbed and fearful when confronted with truth or reality -like with what's going on with covid-19.
Yes exactly! My ex couldn’t be bothered to take precautions with covid and would actually say he’s doing great despite it! That was a big warning sign that he was toxic to be around, since he could literally kill me due to not wearing a mask simply bc he doesn’t care to!
My covert narc was into having fun all the time as well. He was not into making money though, was not driven at all and pretty lazy, was stingy as hell and exploited everyone financially by playing the victim while stashed his money away.
spira Leena Thank you for sharing your experience, now I know I’m not alone. My covert ex lied one too many times about meeting guys on dating apps. Once caught I had enough in light of the Covid19 virus. Now I need a VD test and a Covid test :(
Well, that explains a lot. My cousin is a benign narc. My father in law is a covert narc.
Now I understand why he fell apart when his previous girl left him as soon as she got her college degree. I had heard through the grapevine that he would mistreat her and they had other problems. Obviously, never showing it on front of others.
He has new girl now. Not sure if he's going to fall back to the same behavior. Maybe he'll calm down now that life smacked him in the face.
“The truth about covid” ….that could go a lot of ways. I was expecting to see more comments about how we are all being gaslit by people claiming to care about us. While low key being pressured and bullied and threatened and shamed and guilted into taking the jab. People are literally having their livelihoods ripped from them over a personal medical choice. There are people who don’t choose to have health conditions that may be negatively impacted by the jab. There’s no science behind whether it’s safe long term which is why no FDA approval exists especially for long term safety. We are being told it’s safe but not even the FDA has studied it long enough to say it’s safe. And if you speak up with questions and ask to have your health considered, you’re clearly an awful and self absorbed person?
I'm familiar with this: eternal childishness, superficiality, adolescence, egotism. The lady has a job but won't pay taxes on time. Spends hours on the phone gossiping about irrelevancies. She drenches herself in perfume to go to work. Buys tight-fitting, flashy clothes and wears them once then gives them away. Very touchy-feely with so-called friends/colleagues. Makes eyes at every "attractive" male or female she encounters. Cheats. Wants to travel a lot and have fun on high-interest credit cards and stay in luxury hotels. And she's a senior citizen!
She sounds like she may have Histrionic Personality Disorder too.
@@prettypuppy6752 Yeah, seriously! There's likely a co-morbid thing going on.
This sounds like someone I know very well lol
Describes every male I've ever met, unfortunately. They take no responsibility for anything. It's all about feeling good, as it relates to seeking a thrill. Nothing thrilling about scrubbing floors or managing grown-up issues.
“But realise this, that in the last days difficult times will come. For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, revilers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy, unloving, irreconcilable, malicious gossips, without self-control, brutal, haters of good, treacherous, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, holding to form of godliness, although, they have denied its power: AVOID SUCH MEN AS THESE."
Thank You. Perfect Scripture, 2 Timothy 3: 1-9
Amen
Amen 🙏
Amen. Say it loud!
Exactly right...
They all like to gossip like a high school student. Petty and childish. Their goal is up put people down.
Use the acronym OCEAN (openness, conscientiousness, extraversion, agreeableness, and neuroticism)
Thanks! Lol.
Cool. Thanks!
also CANOE
You use it x
oh, god! I always thought my friend was a narcissist, but he kept acting all immature, so I thought he was just childish. He's actually a narcissist! I'm leaving!
Benign narcissists: Undercover vampires. They just take longer to drain you.
Oh my gosh.. So very true!!
They don't want u to get away either. These are the ones u let in because they seem really fun but then u realise you're stuck with a really repetitive immature person.
Absolutely. I didn't realize how draining it was until I finally broke away from my in-laws that are like this. I mentally could not and cannot handle a few minutes with them anymore.
Wow. You just described my ex and his family. Everything for show. I always referred to them as surface people. Don’t try to get close, don’t try to dig deep. If you do, you’ll see there’s nothing under the mask. They know it and they will keep you at arms length to protect it.
Isn’t that dismissive avoidant attachment style. My wife says she is just a simple person. I am the anxious preoccupied attachment type that craves greater closeness.
Jea that's my mother 😂 but luckily she's one of those rare chases where a narcissist got diagnosed and worked on themselves. It's a little bit draining with her, but she actually cares for you sometimes 😁
Oh my, I didn't know whether to laugh or cry... I can identify.... Cuz that's me. I try, but I'm just... Frozen
@@leahg3926 relive your childhood (one time, don’t stay stuck there) and “reparent” yourself by learning and practicing anything your parents or family failed to pass onto you. It won’t be easy or brief, but I think it’ll help!
My mum, too😭💔😭
So exhausting......
Wtf that is a thing they can actually help themselves 🙄 serious question though. If a narc gets help and gets fixed could they relapse if someone traumatizes them or says something to trigger them causing them to become destructive or were their destructive tendencies always there just waiting for a reason.
@@Respect2theFallen oh jea, and she does many times but at this point I just say to her face how that makes me feel and what the consequences would be if she continues this behaviour and that works for us.
I LOL'd when you said "enjoy the ride and look for the exit"
Dr. Ramani I admire your eloquent way of explaining yourself. You have an ability to explain “academic” stuff to common people and you also bring in your own theories and opinions. I’ve been following these series and you have helped me and so many others in the healing process. I’m not sure I would have been able to receive all this information and help from therapy mostly since this topic isn’t so familiar.
I thank you sincerely. 🙏
Yes!
I feel the same. Kudos to a life changing series gifted to us by this amazing woman. 💝
This is Jon. He's stuck in that eternal late 20 early 30 phase (but we're now in our late 30 early 40). He was fun to go away with, hang with and party with but he never wanted to get serious. He clammed up. I gave it over 6 years and I had to put myself and my children first. Finally.
At this point, after watching so many of Dr Ramani’s videos and series, I think everyone is a narcissist on some level 🥴🤣
Dr. Ramani you deserve a Nobel Prize . This has been a great series. This Series has Touched almost every facet, and even though I've been out 13 years, I hang on every word and wait for what's next because I know the drill of living with a sick person like that. The net of it all is that there is no good narcissism. I noticed you have 7.6 million subscribers. That is quite an accomplishment!!!!
Thanks so much for all that you do.
She does so much doesn't she?
I am really glad she brought up that Narcissism is on a continuum because I have several relationships in my life who have narcissistic characteristics but I wouldn't say they are worth discarding. Any real "narcissists" I have had in my life I no longer have contact with. However I have relationships with family and some friends who have narcissistic traits. I like to know what I can do or how I can manage myself to make sure that these relationships are as healthy as realistically possible. I used to get "drawn into" the narcissistic drama but I am learning skills how to avoid this. Yes, it is true that real intimacy can't be achieved in a narcissistic relationship, however with so many relationships exhibiting narcissistic traits it is pretty hard to avoid them all. These relationships also have helped me gain a sense of self. Because I had a narcissistic parent, I virtually entered adulthood with "no self." Just learning to have boundaries has been a challenge, and mildly narcissistic relationships provide a good sandbox for learning this.
That's the spirit (little narcissists as exercise punchbag). - On a somewhat unrelated note: It has hard for most people to give a NO and stay connected with the person they denied. It is hard for normal people to give a nice, firm, completely confident No.
Because we have such a hard time to give good (but solid and firm, unapologetic) Nos we in turn start to get defensive and resentful. Either saying yes when we shouldn't, or resenting the other person for even having "dared" to bring us in that situation of having to deny something (which secretly makes us feel bad - hence the resentment).
of course all of that is picked up by the antanae of the other person and creates also resentment, awkwardness etc.
Or the other side has narcissistic traits, the stronger the more talent they have to sniff out your weakness and the more willing they will be to try and "turn your No around".
I understand your point. I think the work of Dr. Ramani is very valuable but inside the "narcissism-bubble" of the internet/youtube one can start to write everybody off as "antagonistic". While the reality is more complicated. I know people that are single mothers in difficult situations that just don't have the capacity to be really empathetic or not thinking about themselves and their family first. That might seem narcissistic form the outside, but there is still a reason for it. On the other hand, it is important to protect yourself from people that behave narcissistically towards you although they may no be a narcissistic stereotype. It all has layers. And I wish people like dr. Ramani would talk more about the fact that people can behave narcissistically towards you but not to others or be narcissistic in certain situations. I feel it doesn't help to pathologize everybody that is on the lower side of the spectrum or has the tendency to fall in narcissistic patterns when they are in intense situations or phases life. That doesn't mean though that you shouldn't protect yourself or step out of these relationships.
I really like dr. Ramani work but sometimes I feel if you consume too much of it, you start to see the world in black and white and look for these patterns everywhere
So- I think it maybe is healthy to see some people as "grey" and protect your boundaries while still being friends with them. :) And if you are falling into patterns of a relationship, don't give up on the hope that they may grow and understand how and why they are crossing your boundaries.
(sorry I am not a native speaker)
^ I agree. It’s so easy to label everyone as having narcissistic traits. I personally don’t agree with the popularity of calling anyone you don’t get along with toxic, and kicking everyone to the curb. Sometimes people are actually suffering and might change with support, or a change of circumstances. I’m wary of the popularity of these types of videos because all of a sudden everyone has a narcissist, and they feel validated in making a clinical diagnosis, despite not being experts. And having some traits of narcissism doesn’t necessarily make you one. For example, I’m an INTP and one of our traits is low empathy. That doesn’t mean I’m out to ruin anyone’s life, it just doesn’t come that naturally to me. I’ve lost friends who were into pop psychology and psychoanalyzed everyone behind their backs, always in the most negative of ways. I can only imagine what they assumed about me when I was going through a rough time and didn’t have any emotional support. Their abandonment wasn’t really helpful, but ironically I’m much happier and a better person without those types of people in my life. Calling everyone around you toxic and cutting them off because they aren’t perfect (no one is) isn’t always helpful. It’s when they cross a line into actually degrading your quality of life that you have to think about making the cut. When I’m weighing whether to keep someone around or not, I don’t need to psychoanalyze them. I just ask myself if they’re generally making my life more miserable. If it’s family, sometimes you can acknowledge their behavior and distance yourself from it as much as possible. It can be hard for a lot of people to make that decision, so I do see the helpfulness of these types of videos in that regard.
I volunteer to be the test subject for your study on someone raised by narcissists becoming people pleasers. The concept truly deserves a deeper dive.
Same here. Overt and covert parents... I battle with being overly agreeable.
I am extremely agreeable. My therapist said I am a doormat because of my narcissistic mother. This was so helpful thank you!
That’s a lot of children of narcissistic parents, myself included. However, I’m becoming more disagreeable as I find my true self 😆
@@marmadukescarlet7791 You are becoming ore assertive.
@@marmadukescarlet7791 that's good. I'm working on it now. 💗
Doormats are our most important possessions, they are a sign of a well kept home 🏡! About 33 yrs ago a classmate in college said it was as if I had a kick me sign in my back, imagine! She does poorly, her own doing no dought! Strength on sugar, you were just being polite to your mom, not engaging in battle, not giving the demon what she so desperately groomed and needed you for.... My overt coke head sis fell for it, left home at 14, married at 18, commenced/spread her misery onto kids and first soon to die husband (rinse and repeat with second estranged...) She fought mom like crazy, big fight once just because she refused to wear nylons, those were in garter days and now women hardly wear them at all, but written out of the Will, just like a covert would do, sis is 64 and no company pension fund coming, not my prob, she was my prob enough, I've removed myself 30 yrs ago... She robbed her daughter of her little inheritance, I shall be returning it as I've a bigger cut anyway. Life is for learning, help others as I try to do, we're so numerous, truly disgusting.
Luna White you’ll get there. Therapy works when you work at it. Remember! Your thoughts, feelings, needs and desires are important, no matter what anyone else tries to tell you. ♥️
“You may think you can convert them over to true intimacy and depth but I’m telling you it’s a waste of time.” Amen!
I recently read a short business article about "humble narcissists". The idea is a business leader who is a so-called humble narcissist brings dynamism, enthusiasm and other assorted "good" qualities of a low-grade narcissist while being able to accept criticism and self-reflect on mistakes and failures. But I agree with Dr. Ramani: this is an oxymoron. The idea of "Narcissism/Narcissist" is gaining a lot of traction in popular culture currently, and there is some attempt to downgrade the cruelty and ultimate harsh consequences of a relationship to, and with a narcissist.
They are embarrassing to hang out with.
You end up getting the abuse from them but still have to apologise for their behaviour to the ppl they offended because he/she is your friend/family/partner.🤢don’t do this to yourself...
If a child grows up learning that his feelings doesn't matter, his opinion doesn't matter, his personality doesn't matter... They will automatically assume that their needs doesn't matter. It was like that with me. I was invisible child.
Yes, agreeableness. I wasn't even allowed to have needs.
Balanced life is the key. Something I am really trying to make for me.
I was the "too agreeable" and totally agree that it's an experience of digging your own grave.
Taking baby steps to get out of this grave.
Thank you for helping me Dr. Saviour 😇🌺
He was so nice and normal this morning and then this evening...I watched his mask slip. It was so strange to watch. He had been love bombing me and his self-control started to slip and so his mask slipped. Whoa
Yes!! Dr Ramani , I've always hated the fairy tale of"healthy narcissism", just doesnt exist, just like you cant be a"little bit pregnant", you either are or not.. Your breakdown on narcissism is just profound & thorough..💥🎉🎉💯greetings from Germany 🇩🇪
I used to teach junior and senior high, and the benign narcissist sounds a lot like the adolescents I encountered every day. The difference is that most adolescents do finish maturing (eventually) and become fully functioning adults, while it sounds like a benign narcissist stays stuck on the adolescent side of the bridge. I'm new to the term "benign narcissist," but I think I have known a few. They're the folks who look back on high school as their glory days. For most of us, while we might look back fondly, we don't really want to go back there.
May the goddesses bless you for teaching junior and high school. You are a saint.
Agreed
@@h.borter5367 Several times I told my ex gf that she is just like a kid, bacause she can enjoy life like a kid (she was 30) - I ment it in a good way at that time. But now I see the term benign narcissist and everything makes sence now. Absence of empathy, which is funny because I always saw her as the most empathic person on the planet - but it was only a words which didnt correspond with actual behavior
Omg. This is me. I've been trying to figure out what the fuck is wrong with me for like 15 years. You just described me when I'm in a relationship, which is why I refused to get into relationships. Because I know that I can't maintain them, in this is exactly why. Holy crap, I'm totally effing crazy and I need some fucking therapy. However, I noticed all those weird gossipy High School e habits and stuff, and I noticed that it made people think less of me so I learn how to stop doing that. I've matured quite a bit but I'm still not where I need to be for 32 year old. I'm slowly getting there I am doing self-actualization and trying to fix my self-esteem to address the root cause of this whole thing. I'm just doing it on my own. I've been treating the symptoms for a long time not really understanding what the full problem is. I am eagerly awaiting part 2
@Tex Avery I like your awareness as never seen a response like that-prob not a true narc. Narcissism is a coping mechanism just like people pleasing - we used them in childhood to feel safe.
You have too much self awareness to be a narc.
Bon weekend from French Canada 🇨🇦 everyone, blessings sweetest people of the world 🌎 !
Deep as a dime. I recently had a friend tell me “I’m not very nice” talking about herself. I said, “I think you are” then remembered the saying “when someone tells you something about themselves, believe them”. I don’t know why I can’t get that through my thick head 🙃 and say “why do you think that is?” or “is that something you like?” Any suggestions on this one, gang? Have a great day. 💐💪🏼
I would keep my guard up or walk away from this person entirely--leaning more towards the latter. This could be foreshaddowing their bad behavior they apparently know will come out. That is so bizzare dude. Why would someone just openly admit that lol?! My ex did that and damn I should have believed him as soon as I heard him say something very similar and RAN. Yes you should 1000% believe them!!!! People usually say that i believe to test the waters...see how you'll react...if you're good little faithful supply or not. And if they can abuse you or not.
My husband. He randomly says he's not nice sometimes. We've been married for almost 28 years and it's been quite an adventure due mostly to his unwillingness to grow up. I would definitely say he's not malignant or cruel, but very self-absorbed and not thoughtful at all unless he's trying to score points or get get something he wants. I try to ignore much of what he does unless it really starts to affect me or our children. Survival.
My ex told me repeatedly that he was an a****** when we first started out. I kept saying, no I don't think you are. Boy, was I wrong!
My "friend" called herself an a**h**e all the time. And you know what, she really was. And after using me and being verbally abusive. She is no longer a friend.
When people tell you who they are... believe them! I learned that the hard way.
My ex was a benign narcissist. When he was drinking he was grandiose ! We had 4 kids together and gradually there were more and more responsibilities . But he continued his "student" life going out to parties with friends, drinking and gambling. He was soooo childish ! Last year when I was 40 and he was 43 I decided to divorce. The gambling problem became too severe, he sold 2 cars and one land in order to pay off his debts. I could not endure anymore. Because of this stress he became physically violent with me and started to be malignant. After divorce he moved out very far from us, in another country. I still haven't got any money from him, he does not talk or write to his kids, he does not work. I think that all he likes is having fun, watching movies and playing computer games all day. He lives in his sister's house.
I married him with the hope that marriage will transform him into a serious guy. But it never happened.
Avoid this benign narcs and run away from them !
he will change once married .... Check out what Robin Norwood has to say to this. (her class: Women that love too much)
@@xyzsame4081 Thank you, I will.
This literally described the last girl I dated who randomly discarded me after 6 months of being together. 2 weeks after the discard I found out I had chlamydia lmao... so awful. Talk about getting the closure they won't allow you to have.
I know a lot of people that fit in this description. They are not mean but they are emotionally stunt. Great for Saturday night dancing friends or a brunch once in a while. But they lack depth. Lots of People I feel are stunt because of childhood trauma and they are narcissist- like frozen at the age the event happened. They are harmless but don’t expect a REAL connection.
Elena D,You are beautiful 🌹🌹🌷,hope you are not with a narc 😈!
Dr Ramini Yes high agreeableness is 100% resultant from narcissist abuse
Thank you so much Dr Ramani for explaining it like this😭 before I met my ex, what I understood about narcissists are they’re always evil and exploitative. I never heard of the benign and communal one - which was why I fell into the trap of dating one.. he was ‘harmless’ and helpful towards everyone around him, but you’re right. Trying to get a deeper connection, deeper conversations, it just wasn’t there. After many months of that I just got frustrated and felt neglected. Because of the childishness you mentioned, ofcourse they cannot be kept accountable. And when he’s cornered, just like any other narcissists, they will gaslight.
But God forbids we ever tell them to their face how immature they are, they’ll go godzilla on us.
Thank you for this eye opening truth Dr Ramani you’re a blessing
Now I know what type of narcissist my ex-best friend was (emphasis on the "ex"). He was toxic. For the 10 years I knew him (I'm 30) he always wanted to have the last word. He was always right, never wrong, and everything he did was justified. Interacting with him was like walking on eggshells. He couldn't realize how hurtful the things he said were sometimes. He had zero self-reflection...unless it was in a mirror (I'm not kidding).
He wanted to be the center of attention all the time. Yeah, he was fun to be around, but he was also a drama queen. He manipulated everyone around him to get what he wanted. The manipulation got so bad at times that I ended up saying "Yes" to things that I actually wanted to say "No", and hated myself for it. So did everyone else. He made sure to have a "cult" of friends around him.
He had anger management issues and didn't know how to deal with his jealousy. He was extremely "charming" and had many relationships that lasted no more than a month because he couldn't commit to any of them and every time it was the girl's fault (cause god forbid any woman to be rational in a relationship). Also, he was constantly dissatisfied with any of the many jobs he ever did.
Truly, the only thing that makes him "Benign" is that he seemed to actually care about the people around him at times. Can't really tell if he was love-bombing them, to be honest. In my eyes he still fits the bill for all of the above. A Benign Narcissist with low levels of empathy. I ended up ghosting him. I'm so glad it is over...now I start to feel healthy again. It's like waking up from a nightmare.
John Riddle haha ghosted mine two never again never ever again 27 years all he’s getting good luck to him he’s so convinced that he can come back here why I’ve dropped everyone their all his minions these are grown ups to it’s just a disgrace planing my getaway I’m not telling no one not even my kids no when the day will come they know it’s going to come not even telling them We’re literally fleeing from this toxic entity of immature and utter bull shit he calls life it’s a joke he’s a joke the people he knows are even bigger jokes I wouldnt pay my respects of he dropped dead toady some one else’s issue now not ever going to be mine and heyll never think I got the balls to do it he knows I got the money to but he will not think ima actually do it well jokes on him got all I need in my corner I don’t need constant ego stoking and to run around acting like I’m 15 I don’t think u get much more of a disgraceful human being as this man just a total fraud that can’t hold onto to many people that long just junkies hoes and criminals not real ya huge success just a bunch of loosers they really are all perfect for each other utter and complete shit
I think you have been a saviour during this lockdown. It would have been tough I guess on your part to do so many videos. Take care and regards from India
You have nailed my mother: the "fun" (divorced) parent, while my dad & stepmom who had a functional marriage were almost never seen, because they were the ones that did any hard work of discipline and modeling appropriate behavior for me and my 4 year older BDP half-sister, who was not my father's child, although my mother raised me with that lie. My mother was like the character "Auntie Mame" - always up to something 'fun' and mildly-appearing exotic (at least to us, as kids.) My h-sis was born 1956; I was born 1960; my parents divorce was in Dec 1963.
As a covert-benign narcissist, my mother made me her partner, and left my half-sister to effectively direct the household, fueled by my half-sister's BDP rages, mood instability and relentlessly cruel manipulation and lies that would put DT to shame. You really nailed my mother's response to my half-sister's lifelong bullying of me when you described the superficiality of a benign narcissist.
My mother constantly focused my attention (for 52 years of my life, until she died) on the appearance of our 3-some family: divorced mother, raising two daughters in the 1960s/70s, doing the best she could. On the surface, all looked well, though obviously financially & emotionally challenging for my mother. But what was actually occurring in my household was horrific narcissistic abuse, by my half-sister to me, aided & abetted by our mother, who let my half-sister run wild, because who can discipline a BPD child?! Not a benign narcissist, evidently, and certainly not our mother.
I can't wait to hear what you, Dr Ramani, have to say about Generational Narcissists, because I bet there's going to be a strong echo of that in the women in my mother's family, given what I know about my grandmother & great-grandmother. Neither my half-sis or I have had children, and for me, it was a conscious decision because I reasoned that if I could barely keep myself safe from my half-sis & mother, how could I ever protect a baby, much less a child, all the way through to adulthood? I decided early on it could never be done, and never even attempted to locate a partner with whom to have children.
Thank you so much Dr Ramani for educating the world in these basic psychological concepts concerning personality patterns. Since the Great Pause started about 10 weeks ago, I've been using the opportunity to dive deeply into my psychological make-up, and have intensified the therapy sessions I've been in for the past 5 years -- all to great results, especially now that you've given me a clinical framework into which I can place my life experiences, step back, get a look at the full picture, and exclaim, "Now I 'get' it! Now I understand why my mother, half-sister and I have responded in our various roles, through-out our lives," and how those childhood patterns have been mirrored back to me in my adult life. That's a truly priceless gift you've given me, and it seems like thousands of others, judging from the popularity of your videos. Thank you.
Dr. Ramani=---what an AWESOME topic. Anyone of any substance has encountered those types that can be as frustrating as hell to engage in a relationship beyond the surface. I'm over the hill--so I know when to fold 'em as soon as I've identified them. THEY WON'T CHANGE-it's not their problem, IT'S YOURS.
Thank you... looking forward to Part 2.
My grandmother is 91 yo. She still acts like a fun loving and rebellious teenager. Which would be “benign” if not for the fact that she procrastinated in everything important in her life and now me and her estate’s trustee are left literally cleaning up her messes 🤦🏻♀️
Dr. Ramani. You integrate the most meaty clinical literature on narcissism with concrete every-day descriptions we all can relate to---"...great body, makes a great margarita, but doesn't..." So, helpful! Thanks again.
You are on it! Narcissists seek out highly agreeable people that have boundary issues, and then exploit them. I have learned that people with CEN (childhood emotional neglect) tend to be stripped of their boundaries from childhood. CEN is the exact opposite of narcissism. It’s a scale. If you have CEN, you have been programmed to put yourself on the back burner to help others as if you don’t exist. If you have CEN, you need a dose of narcissism to be more in the middle of the scale. Being in the middle of CEN and narcissism is the best place to be.
I think some narcissists may have come from a CEN family, and they have learned to mask all their venerabilities by putting on the exact opposite face. So, if they were programmed to believe they are not as important as others and should put their needs on the back burner, the face they will present the world, will be the exact opposite- they are superior. I don’t think these people are real narcissists but come across as narcissists to prevent rejection from others and shame. There is a workable form developed in bossing others around and pretending to be superior that gains superficial respect and action from others. They may have been unequipped to handle social situations and have learned this form as a coping strategy, believing that is the only way to actually be workable in dealing with others and managing people.
I think another form of narcissism that is more authentic narcissism comes from being overly spoiled during childhood to a point where the adult has never gone through childhood developmental milestones that the rest of us have gone through.
I have been around both of these types of narcissists and they are VERY different in origin but resemble each other in behavior. Just my personal experience and theory. 🤔
It's great to hear you challenge the idea of "healthy" narcissism. I've seen this idea advanced mostly when people discuss narcissistic traits, rather than personality disorder. They tend to define this idea of healthy narcissism as "believing in yourself." Which of course is a wonderful trait, but of course, that is not what WE are talking about when we talk about narcissism.
Omg! This sound like me at one time if my life. I was a groupie back in the days and didn't want to take life seriously. It get dangerous cause you attract narcissists cause real life don't party as much. Once I realized that it part of my upbringing and it was part of the spectrums the dynamics change. Reparenting is taking place and paradigm changed.
Wow! This series is opening my eyes to a lot of my past relationships. From parents to spouse. Wish you had been around when I was being turned inside out by these monsters. Thank you for your hard work for us.
Oh wow... I've been waiting for this one. This hits it right on the nose!
I really appreciate how you don’t sugar coat everything.
@Dr Ramani kindly make a video on how a person with codependency personality improve their boundary making goals after they have realised their partner is narcissistic plus how can they increase their self love so that they dont fall in a trap of narcissist in future due to their higher agreeable nature
Search her videos. She has one on codependency and another on boundaries. This one is about boundaries and she just put it up yesterday: th-cam.com/video/dZrcEmRafwM/w-d-xo.html
I needed this today. Thank you for posting it.
Thank you for opening my eyes!
Bingo!!! din din din...goes the bell.. Thanks! 4 this doc...
Just like healthy narcissism is a contradiction in terms, a benign narcissist is also an oxymoron. If someone is on a impactful end of the narcissistic spectrum, they will cause harm to others and therefore not be benign. Perhaps they could be relabelled as low impact narcissism or something similar?
There should be a graph or scale showing healthy adaptiveness and zero adversarial impact on one side and full blown maladaptive malignant narcissism and extreme adversarial impact on the other side. Everyone will fall somewhere along that curve.
Healthy narcissism is a concept or term used by narcissists to deflect accountability whilst covering their tracks. The term benign has other meanings. In this context, benign means "not malignant" which is accurate given the characteristics of this version of narcissism compared to the other ones. They tend to be the most tolerable, in my experience, since they have some less apparent "hints" of narcissism while not being as destructive (which would more readily identify the other types). It is easy to write them off as simply being immature/childish or somewhat toxic although things don't quite add up. It can cause one to ignore their high social intelligence and not look further into their behavior.
I like Dr. Ramani's term "narcissism lite."
Thank you for putting these videos out, you give alot of great information. I want to get a body camera to record my daily interactions with the people in my life/family for proof to back up what was said or done. But then they wouldn't watch it. Why is it so hard for people to see the truth about themselves. Yeah it may be hard but, you can't move on and become a better person if you don't acknowledge & change your shortcomings.
So good! Thank you Dr. Ramdani.
SO HELPFUL! Thank you Dr Ramani.
Wow! As usual, this is an interesting video. Thank you Dr. Ramani for providing all of this information. It is great to learn all about this and the many forms it comes in. Blessings and thank you, again. Enjoying learning with you.
the lack of thriving also can come from Depression.
This was very interesting and important. I haven't heard this talked about, so thank you!
A very big thank you for being you❤️
You’re such a beautiful genius, thank you🙌🏻
I love love your videos.
Boy! Dr. Ramani you hit it on the head with this one. Oh my! Thank you 😊
Thank you for this series of content! Are very helpful!!
I’m getting so much insight from this definition series! Please consider a video on Emotional Regulation!
This is so true!!! Thank you for sharing your knowledge. It will really help out people dealing with narcissists. I wish i knew these things before my relationship with my ex
THANK YOU!!!! I found my support community.
Thank you for this information because I do know some people like this and was trying to pinpoint what was it that was a bit off about dealing with them?Now I know! You are a lifesaver! Thanks for the clarity!🥰
I literally can’t wait for part two! After watching so many of these videos due to a recent breakup of sorts, I knew my ex was a narc, but didn’t really fit into the other categories perfectly.... until now! Wow this perfectly describes him and I can’t wait to get more validation ( after being invalidated for many months as you know) in the next video lol
Thank you, Dr. Ramani! In the future, I'd love to hear more about the big 5, and especially what those of us whose agreeability is cranked up too high can do to achieve a healthier balance. I suspect that this is a problem that many of us with a narcissistic parent share, since we were conditioned from the cradle to sublimate ourselves in service of the narcissistic parent.
I'm enjoying your videos. I especially LOVE your description of the High School behavior. Boy I've been thinking about that a lot lately. lol
Thank you so much for the work you do
Just when I think I have learned about the various versions of narcissism, you teach another. Fascinating topic. Eternal adolescence, yes that is my 70 yo husband of 5 years. But, he is definitely an emotionally arrested covert narc. Looking forward to part 2! Thank you!
Yes, this sounds more like my stepfather. Although he’d made a bit of a name for himself in his field and had a commanding stage presence, at home, he was more of a child. Although my mother may have been a narcissist early on, as most say it starts in childhood or is nature/nature, my mother was of a more serious mindset and, once they married, I think she quickly found herself alone in her marriage or at least being the man of the house. It became clear that she would be doing everything that he didn’t know how to do and didn’t want to do. It didn’t matter if she had a harder job than he did. So, it was in part, why there was sooo much arguing.
I think it’s one of the many reasons I never married. I think, subconsciously, I may have felt, what’s the point of being in a relationship, particularly as a woman, if you’re going to be the man or even still be alone.
It’s such a painful thing to have to learn about the narcissism of my parents. My stepfather was a benign, classic narcissist as, he was arrogant as all get out and my mother at least ended up being the covert, malignant narcissist.
My stepfather passed a few years ago and my mother is still very much alive but, I don’t really deal with her. I’m too busy trying to scrape her off and handle the business of my own happiness, contentment and aging. Although I’m trying to pair up and gal in love, I have great trepidation, not only because of my weight, but one worries that when they come from what I described above that, particularly as they are aging, will they become anything like their parents and become someone else’s nightmare. I really don’t ever want to be as part of hurting anyone like that. Everyone’s life means so much.
the jack thank you and understood and I’ve also heard that said.
However, I consider a few things about my own personality. I’m definitely not the happiest person in the world and I don’t suspect that will improve. Like there’s one guy pursuing new right now and has been doing so for over a year. But, I suspect he’s a chucklehead. At this point in my life, I’m not going to be as tolerant about some knucklehead wasting my time and thinking nothing of it because, “Hey, it’s all good,” or whatever. I know I could find myself quite enraged. Particularly, if I found I was with someone who wasted what few years I may have left and because, like many victims of narcissism, we find ourselves mad as a wet hen about the years wasted on a narcissist and often even further enraged by the flippancy with which people tell us, “Well, you’ll simply have to get over it because that’s water under the bridge.” For me, this was exacerbated by my mother actually telling me 2 years ago, after doing work for her personally and professionally all of my adult life, “I’ve just been using you all these years.”
I also consider that, unless my mother was an absolute master at covering who she has become, during her younger years, she has turned into a NIGHTMARE. That, although I know that narcissists worsen with age, this has turned into something maniacal. I don’t know what other issues like, perhaps, the onset of dementia, that she may have that may be, in part, to blame.
So, I worry about devolving into something like her. I may have introspection and empathy now, but will that later change? I don’t know.
At minimum, there is rage and fear in my end because, if I were to even fall in love at this point, what do I say about my family, considering I’ve already been exposed to people saying, “How DARE you treat your mother this way!” No one understands narcissism until the pit bull if it is attached to their behind. Most don’t know what it’s like to have your mother call me like she did a few days ago, demanding my job number. Why does she want it, although she got it through the phone company 2 years ago and may have lost it, although I sent her a certified cease and desist letter? Because she sees it as the one thing that cuts her control to absolutely nothing and she intends to destroy it. As I WFH now, people think, “We’ll, at least you don’t have to worry about her calling your job!” Heh, is that what they might think? She might use that very situation to obtain the phone number and work to ensure I have nothing to return to. Then, I will have to destroy both her business and reputation. A fight I would not choose but, if I take someone down, they’re not getting up again. My own mother. I did not see this madness coming.
@@privateprivate8366 The whole "Get over it" attitude causes me to become enraged.
When they use this phrase, that's how we know we have them cornered.
They hate being outted.
Yeah, I will get over it when you are planted under barren ground.
I love the Big 5! Here in Canada, we like the word CANOE as an alternate to OCEAN. :)
Thanks. I am enjoying these. Happy Memorial Day.
Thank you Dr. Ramani I can't express to you how much you've helped me. My daughter is a narcissist and PBD. God bless you. I'm working through so much and you've been a lifesaver.
“Healthy narcissism is an oxymoron” .. you are a genius Dr. Ramani
#completelyagree
Thanks for the video!
Really makes sense. Thank you for sharing.
This description just answered a lot of my questions. I have seen a person that has periods of benign narcissism alternating with mean narcissism which is very confusing for the person on the other end of the relationship. How can narcissists live without going literally crazy? The constant shifting of personality traits without anchored values....it took me good 15 years to realize all of this. THANK YOU DR RAMANI you are a terrific therapist and teacher💕💕💕💕
My favorite part is when Dr Ramani says, ...."I am telling you, it's a waste of your time"
I love this series. very informative.
Dr Ramani, you are a gem!
This is so weird? My intuition told me to quit my job a couple of days ago and now this video shows up on my TH-cam home page. The punchline is that my previous job was FILLED with people like this. They all gossipped about each other! Even the people that "didn't talk to anyone" seemed manipulative...and my managers (once they got word that I was grieving over my passed mother) looked at me as if I was shark bait. They were already trying to prune me to overwork myself while all of there other narc favorites just shot the shit... I'm intrigued
Monroe Obsidian -Ihope you quit.
I was just thinking that earlier when I was roomate hunting.
I'm so careful with finding roomates now because if you fall into the roomate category you have to be careful with people that are coming out of abusive relationships, if your having the same issues. Having too much in common is actually a bad thing it means there hiding the bad parts of them from you.
I almost thought about giving this woman a room till she used the term, "abusive!" Towards her ex and said don't worry I won't be home I go out a lot=red flag. It means this couple is trying to bump their issues out on somebody else..
Right, gotta listen carefully to what people say and then, as appropriate, distance yourself right away.
Thank you for this Dr. Ramani, hope you're doing well☺️
Thank you Dr Ramani. 💖💖👌🏾🙏🏽🙏🏽