Leaving in high school is almost impossible if her parents are still members I would have left a year ago if I didn't have to worry about my parents or other family members disowning me It becomes much easier when you turn 18
There was This Owl hmm, I think the best advice I could give would be to wait and see what happens/see the circumstances. I have seen family react both poorly and nutral/positive to those leaving the church. It really depends on the family and how they react, and how the information is put on them. I'd suggest having some questions or reasons showings the church is lying/not telling the full truth (I'd bring up the Meadows Mountain Massacre, and Joseph Smith's polygamy and how that [in a way] lead to his arrest following his death). I'd encourages the parents/gaurdiens to do research on their own to answer basic questions. I'd also discourage them from using LDS websites (that's probably a given, but that'll be their go to sources) and show that not all facts against the church are anti-mormon. I Regardless what happens after the beans are spilled, I'd also make sure that your friend has a good foundation outside the church. While I don't think anything drastically bad will happen (i don't think they will disown their child -if they do they are bad mormons who've forgotten then value of family-), it is a good idea to have some friends outside the church. There will probably be some gossip and unofficial shunning, and it's better to move away in general if possible. I know there is an LDS TH-cam channel, and it has videos of parents accepting their gay son. There might be one of a family member leaving and the rest of the family dealing with it, but I highly doubt it. I'll look just in case, since those videos are pretty effective. Heck, there's probably videos like that not on the LDS yt channel that can work just as well. Hope this helps. I wish your friend the best! Their not alone in this situation. :) Edit: I remember this documentary PBS did, I highly recommended watching it. It's very long (4 hours total, first 2 are about the church's history of the other 2 is the church today) but it hits all the points/raise the questions every member should know about. th-cam.com/video/7N8D8KD5NWo/w-d-xo.html Here's part one which I think is the better one. Also a person suggested looking up mormonstories, but I can't see their comment anymore in this thread (it's in my notifications though idk glich or deleted). I think it's a TH-cam channel full of ex-mormos explaining their experiences, which I do find beneficial and helpful.
Ryan Johnson the documentary? Probably for someone who is not interested in mormonism. However i think every member should watch it, or at the very least the first two hours. The history of the church is borderline corrupted (at least by the way the church teaches it). Mormons need to see an unbiased and fully factual history of their church with nothing left out. For example, most mormons believe that polygamy was "just a phase." But in reality, it was a mandatory commandment from God, similar to how baptism is in order to go to heaven. Sorry if I rambled a little, but I don't think very many people know how bad this situation is.
I like the analogy. don't like the context they are using it in. could be used in a scientific environment then it would be interesting and useful. funny thing is from a different perspective the analogy is saying gather all the evidence before you make a decision, don't rely on the one thing you have found to dictate your beliefs. ironic
I think that a variation of the analogy better describes gnostic theists: ...one blind man grabs a tree and says, "It's an elephant." Another man grabs the tip of a spear. "It's an elephant," he proclaims. A third man grabs a rope. "It's an elephant," he says.... Later on, the blind men gather together and write an authoritative book on elephants.
Old story. I first heard it from my mother when I was 5. the moral of the story is that you only have part of the bigger picture, you should never try to handle everything alone, and always keep your mind open to new ideas. which is one of the reasons I became an atheist.
noah walters Yes, in fact much of my extended family are Mormons, and I care for them deeply. I hold nothing against individual Mormons as a whole, I just know that the organization does some intellectually dishonest things. And believing in evolution does not mean that one does not commit logical fallacies
Your voice is so smooth and comforting to me for some reason. It's like a friend telling me that it's okay that I left Mormonism. Or that it's okay to live my life separate from a cult. Thank you for being something that I always look forward too, especially when I've been depressed lately. Thank you Telltale♡♡
Telltale, I love your videos! As a gay woman who was raised by two Greek Orthodox (although very progressive) parents, I've had a weird relationship with religion. I like your logical outlook on things, and I would love for you to analyze Greek orthodoxy!
Great video Telltale! Also you're right on about string theory. It's only a theory in mathematics. In a scientific perspective it is only considered a hypothesis. We only have math to back up string theory currently, though we are working out methods to test it. One of these methods is observing discontinuity in the specific heat of Bose-Einstein Condensates (or other ultracold atoms) (Kinda impractical but it would work). Another method would be smashing protons into each other and seeing if it the resulting collision reveals any superparticles (A good method of testing but the LHC can't accelerate particles enough to try yet). In pure mathematics, string theory is incredibly well established and can accurately describe strings in ten dimensions (and maybe eleven soon!), the math behind these is well backed up and shows that it's possible string theory could exist, but doesn't prove that it does. Anyway sorry for geeking out here I just like physics.
I am a member of the LDS church (but don’t consider myself as one really). And I want to say that every point you made is absolutely true. You are highly educated in what you are saying and prove your point very well. I wish a lot of Mormons would come to know that actual truth. Thank you for delivering that truth !
"The Earth is a cube we were all wrong!" You know I feel like we'd have noticed that by now, what with the fact that such corners would be pretty damn obvious and we'd have several very obvious edges
One little error in the vid your talking about and in your own. Most people always knew that the earth was not flat, that is something that was made up. To almost anyone who lives at the ocean it is pretty easy to understand that the world is not flat. (the thing they were uncertain about was how big it was, Columbus thought it was much smaller, hence why he thought to have found India and not America.)
7:19 we do have unicorns! They’re great swimmers and even gave their own theme song: NARWHALS NARWHALS SWIMMING THRIUGH THE OCEAN MAKEUNG GREAT COMMOTION
Really snuck that god stuff in at the last second, for a second i though @telltale was trolling us cause the whole time I was thinking about how perfectly that analogy fit religion.
ExMormon here, Uchtdorf, who is the Mormon speaker used to be my very very favorite apostle of all time. And now that I’m out everything that comes out of his mouth is just ridiculous. So glad I discovered the truth and left this crazy religion. Thank you so much for this video.
Time for Sunday Science class with Telltale, yay! \(^o^)/ I feel bad for that poor elephant. It sure looks pissed! No unicorns on earth?! NOOO!! 😭 Although maybe that's for the best, as humans would probably drive them into extinction like so many other species... :(
"We've reviewed the whole elephant, and we know what it is now". LOL. Sounds like you think everything's all been figured out. Science hadn't even scratched the surface.
I think the poem is kind of garbage, and yet has potential. First, none of them can be right because they all make comparisons and assumptions (the elephant being "like" a snake, a tree, a wall, a rope, a spear and a fan) instead of staying as vague as their ability to observe (their blindness is essential to the poem). Also, are they observing the same thing ? If you tell the story from the perspective of the blind men, do they know they are observing the same thing ? is an ear a leg ? Is a tail a prehensile trunk ? And why did none of those men tried to observe the same thing than another blind men ? They all stay where they are, do they even want to know what they're observing ? Second, all of their observations MUST be coherent and consistent since they observe the same thing. Think about light and it's double-nature (wave-particle), some people think only one is correct (either ware or particle) while scientists now says light can be both, and therefore IS both. Third, technically the blind men were all right. They just needed to put their observations all together and start with an hypothesis about "what is an elephant" and then, through scientific methodology, end with a "theory of the elephant". And don't talk about the final God of the gaps (8:40), especially when God is defined in a way to make it unverifiable and irrefutable.Yes, don't talk about God explaining reality to Job about Leviathan, the pillars of the earth or rain. Also, if the Gospels are the ultimate Truth, the real theory of Everything, why are they incoherent and inconsistent with History, Archaeology, Biology, Physics, and why are the Gospels proven to be the result of dogmatic decisions about their content and their interpretation ? Maybe because it's only a religious matter. But since it's a Mormon apologetics video, it has no further critic about this poem and starts to make fallacies about God. Also, blind man with an axe. Sounds safe. But I did appreciate this poem anyways. Thanks Mormons. ^_^ Join us, in the furry side of the Force ! :)
You don't understand, this isn't a Mormon story. This is an ancient parable from India with multiple versions and endings. My favorite version has the blind men show each other the different parts until they figure out that the elephant is like all of those things, which highlights the scientific method and not being a dick. A more common one has a guy with sight coming along and seeing them beat the crap out of each other and then shows all the men all the parts and explains how they're put together. This highlights the importance of multiple perspectives, how you shouldn't get into fights with insufficient data, and you know, how it's possible there is an answer the someone has already discovered. On a related note: fuck this video and their forced conclusion.
I personally think the poem is a great reflection of how different people perceive things differently. All of the blind men are right about some aspect of the elephant, but they each argue that their perception is fully correct, instead of taking a step back and trying to figure out why nobody else is coming to the same conclusion. That analogy can be applied to so many things. I personally think it's a great analogy for why scholarly consensus is important - nobody perceives everything exactly the same, and everyone goes into research on any given subject with preconceived notions and biases. If you get any one person's perspective on something, it won't give you objective truth. If you ask a whole bunch of people, see how much of what they say lines up, and further explore the differences between different people's perceptions, though, you'll come to understand something closer to reality. The Mormon video applied the analogy to something without thinking things through, though; by their logic, the Book of Mormon is someone who can see, while the people are blind. Therefore, only through reading the book of Mormon can they know the truth. That's silly, though, because if you look at all the other belief systems of the world, they all say that their own ideas are the true ones; that makes the religions themselves equivalent to the blind men, with each insisting on the accuracy of its perception, while none have the full truth. A more logical application of the Elephant poem to religion would be pointing to every religion on Earth and saying "Each of these were created by "blind" men, who may have perceived something accurate, but couldn't see the whole picture. If we get together and compare them all, maybe we'll get closer to the truth." Of course, that implies that all religions hold some truth, rather than some or all of them being total bull, but hey, it's a better analogy than the one they went with. Also, don't thank the Mormons, they didn't write the poem. It was composed in English by John Saxe, based on an older fable from India.
Notice how Elder Uchtdorf's voice has been enhanced with an echo-effect to make him sound more authoritative here. . . a subtle form of manipulation intended to enhance his status as gods' authorized spokesperson
I watched like 90% of your videos in the past 3 days while grinding my characters in disgaea and doing other stuff. Honestly i have no connection to cults or even religion in general and i dont really care but i still love your videos. Good job keep em up !
Hey Telltale, I'm a big fan of your awesome videos!, you should make a video about la Santa/Santisima Muerte, I would love to hear your thoughts on it!
any time you upload a video and i get an alert for it, i literally say "YES I LOVE THIS SHIT" and INSTANTLY click on it. I love me some cult education ^_^
So, I'm Mormon and I believe in almost everything about science. Evolution, earths scientific age, and even the big bang to an extent. One thing most Mormons believe is that science and religion are two sides of the same coin in a way. Religion is the explanation in the supernatural, and science is the explanation of the mortal. Let's take earths age for instance. In genesis, it is said that christ made the earth in 6 days. But we have been told in scripture that time for God is different than time for us, not to mention night and day are not made until later in the "week". Who is to say that dinosaurs were not alive during that time? Or that the earth was morphed through science by God? The problem with a lot of religion is literal interpretation, and that is why science and religion so often disagree. Love your videos mate. I'm learning a lot from these 😁
A fly has a life span of seven days but at the end of its life does it feel it only lived seven days or an entire lifetime? Humans live about 75 years and at the end of our lives we feel we've lived a lifetime. For GOD thousand of years is like a day. This is how ive always imagined it.
i like how guessing what you're drawing in the background is kind of like a game, like... it took my a little bit to tell that the hairy avocado was actually a kiwi...
God watching this stuff reminds me how nice it was to be mormon. It felt good. There’s a reason why people join/stay in the church and that’s because it oversimplifies life and morality and gives you a safety net. I live in Utah. My family is mormon. They are trying to “rescue” me. It’s conditional love and it sucks. Everything would be so much easier if I just went back. I would have a social life, dating wouldn’t be a nightmare, I could have all of life’s answers spoon-fed to me by “men of god.” The mormon church is fake and a scam (seriously? 10%??) and I will never go back. But I’m glad that you are empathetic towards indoctrinated people. It’s so much easier to let other people control you. It’s not healthy, but it’s easy. If only mormons were actually about love and not control- for me, I couldn’t care less about its history. I left because I was sick of self-righteous asshats telling me I was worth less because I’m a woman; that all my gay friends will burn in hell; that my divine destiny is to breed and do housework. Mormons who play the “religious minority” bullshit make me livid. When you’re the ones at the receiving end of public policy controlled by religion, then you can talk. Fuck outta here with that bullshit. What makes me most angry is that I know how people view me now- an apostate, sad, unhappy, “lost” etc. They will always see me as a project, not a person. Ugh.
That’s sad. I hope she doesn’t really believe that. Think of some really good character trait you share with her, and remind her that she taught you to be that way by example. (Perhaps she taught you kindness, tolerance, charity, industry, law-abiding, or even ‘just’ good manners.)
What's ironic is, the blind who simply accept their own limited understanding of the situation and refuse to seek the entire picture more aptly describes the religious. Mainly because the people who actually are making these inquiries and discoveries are NOT blind... What I also find funny is that they still claim that God is the Source of Absolute unchanging truth...when God not only got things WRONG in the Bible...but he also LIES - several times - throughout the bible as well... The problem here is, is their assumption that just because most of the things that people "believed in" before were wrong - most of those misconceptions actually being the fault of religion and not science - that somehow people are incapable of knowing ANYTHING that's actually right...
I was born LDS, it sucks and it ruined my life, for one, made it impossible to get a relationship last time I got close was with a girl in the church but couldn't handle that I had doubts. And said she couldn't date me for that lone reason she said other then for that in every way you're perfect.... I've been a lonely virgin with no chance since, doesn't help where I live is basically all mormons and low population so there is basically no choice, or option. Then throw on top of that I got injured, and have difficulty exercising and getting a job it's hopeless at this point.
Hey telltale what’s your opinion on last thursdaism ( the theory that we were all created [ let’s say Thursday ] and we were made with the memories and illusion we’ve been here all along )
I’m no expert on logical fallacies, so I might be wrong about this, but I see two after watching your video. First, a straw man fallacy. You’re taking what is said in the video and applying it to beliefs about evolution, but nowhere in the video does it talk about evolution, and, as was mentioned by another commenter, evolution is even taught at Mormon church sponsored schools. Mormon church leaders may at some point have taught against evolution, but your information is a little dated in terms of generally accepted beliefs in the Mormon church. Granted, changing beliefs could be construed as a problem, but that’s another story. Second, as another viewer pointed out, this video itself arguably commits the same fallacy it accuses Mormons of in that it equates religious beliefs with the scientific method, which is only as accurate to the extent that religious beliefs can be considered analogous to scientific beliefs. I’ll watch a couple of your other videos, but I wasn’t overly impressed with this one.
I'm an ex Mormon, and I do not believe in their teachings but a google search will reveal that evolutionary biology is taught at BYU (a Mormon run University). I don't think that if evolution violated Mormon beliefs they would allow this.
Gwen Fox the official stance is supposed to be that we have no stance. At BYUI, most college educated members, particularly in STEM fields, seem to believe in evolution though. It's kind of a weird contradiction
Never underestimate the power of doublethink, friendo. There's a lot of faithful members doing serious academic research into fields that discredit their personal beliefs with a smile on their faces
At least in the case of BYU-I, I'm betting that's not the case, we simply don't get enough students who are non-mormons for that to matter. I think it's more the fact that they simply *can't* get around the fact evolution has so much support, it simply makes too much sense. And even if we think that evolution contradicts their doctrine, they don't. In my entire life, living in completely mormon circles for two and a half decades, I can think of two people who explicitly stated that they didn't think evolution was true. I'm sure my grandparents had their doubts, but that's more them being old -- most kids my age believe in both.
"If evolution was true, then there was no Garden of Eden, no Adam and Eve, and no fall. If there was no fall, of death did not come into the world as the scriptures declared that it did, and to be consistent, if you accept the evolution this is the view you must assume, then there was no need for a redemption, and Jesus Christ is not the son of God, and her did not die for the transgression of Adam, not for the sins of the world." Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation 1:141-42 They contradict themselves left and right. Ex mormon here.
The problem I face when bringing up the legitimacy of the Bible is that LDS don’t really believe in the Bible it at the very least not all of it, which lets them cherry pick what it’s “correct”and what it’s not, another way to ignore the bad and only take in the good of the Bible. Also there’s the issue of genealogy and how some (including my mother) have dreams about missing people/names and find the missing names IRL to be the exact ancestor missing. What ever I say it always goes back to “if it wasn’t real than how do u explain that “
I believe you've missed the mark of the poem. "Humans can only receive truth through the events of their life". The men were adamant of the object they perceived it to be due to the part of the animal they were touching. You're not attacking what he is saying you're attacking the logic of the poem and you clearly don't understand the poem in question. Let me make this simple for you. The men are blind you can't see the whole elephant and never will.
At 2:57, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_fallacy is used to reach your conclusion, which is not necessarily correct. The analysis brought forth by the apologist is correct (if a and b is part of c, and a and b is a part of d, then c = d, or en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faulty_generalization#Hasty_generalization). He then makes the same logical fallacy later in the video to come to an incorrect conclusion, which is of course is a curious myopia, but that is another story.
"everything you see is only part of the whole but the part I see is representative of the whole." Do they just not see how their analogy applies to them? when you claim something with absolute certainty, you blind yourself to the bigger picture. If the supposedly intelligent blind men compared each others experiences and felt all the different parts of the elephants body for themselves, they would have a much better chance of getting the right answer. likewise if the people who made this video had the courage to consider that their beliefs might be wrong they might figure out why the message in it doesn't make any sense.
I started reading the Book of Mormon once that was given to me. I stopped when it said that the Hebrew escapees reached the New World. and saw, amongst other things, horses. Joseph Smith didn't know, when he made that rubbish up, that horses had been extinct in the Americas for some 10,000 years.
How does this guy know that he's not one of the blind guys feeling the elephant? For all we know, Mormonism could be getting part of the observation and then make the wrong conclusion like other religions.
There actually was an extinct species of rhino with one giant horn that inspired the unicorn, so unicorns not existing is a good example. It was found fairly recently. :)
The reference video never drew any parallels to evolution or string hypothesis. He was only applying the poem to personal life. He is saying that because we are not omnipotent, we will inevitably make errors in judgment. Thus we must trust the word of the one who is omnipotent. He is not using the poem to try and discredit evolution.
If a building took a builder.... A painting had to have a painter.... The how we so blind as to not give credit to all that which has been created? Are we blind too?
"In this video, I debunk mormons use of an analogy and why it doesn't work at all." It does not work for you as an atheist who does not understand the spiritual world and how God does things. Just for clarification.
Litteraly just got back from my LDS church meeting! So excited to watch this video!
(I was born into the church I'm a shadow member now)
Pony Kazy Hey, I have a friend (in high school) born in the church but now wants to leave. Any advice for her I should give?
Leaving in high school is almost impossible if her parents are still members
I would have left a year ago if I didn't have to worry about my parents or other family members disowning me
It becomes much easier when you turn 18
There was This Owl hmm, I think the best advice I could give would be to wait and see what happens/see the circumstances. I have seen family react both poorly and nutral/positive to those leaving the church. It really depends on the family and how they react, and how the information is put on them.
I'd suggest having some questions or reasons showings the church is lying/not telling the full truth (I'd bring up the Meadows Mountain Massacre, and Joseph Smith's polygamy and how that [in a way] lead to his arrest following his death). I'd encourages the parents/gaurdiens to do research on their own to answer basic questions. I'd also discourage them from using LDS websites (that's probably a given, but that'll be their go to sources) and show that not all facts against the church are anti-mormon.
I Regardless what happens after the beans are spilled, I'd also make sure that your friend has a good foundation outside the church. While I don't think anything drastically bad will happen (i don't think they will disown their child -if they do they are bad mormons who've forgotten then value of family-), it is a good idea to have some friends outside the church. There will probably be some gossip and unofficial shunning, and it's better to move away in general if possible.
I know there is an LDS TH-cam channel, and it has videos of parents accepting their gay son. There might be one of a family member leaving and the rest of the family dealing with it, but I highly doubt it. I'll look just in case, since those videos are pretty effective. Heck, there's probably videos like that not on the LDS yt channel that can work just as well.
Hope this helps. I wish your friend the best! Their not alone in this situation. :)
Edit: I remember this documentary PBS did, I highly recommended watching it. It's very long (4 hours total, first 2 are about the church's history of the other 2 is the church today) but it hits all the points/raise the questions every member should know about.
th-cam.com/video/7N8D8KD5NWo/w-d-xo.html
Here's part one which I think is the better one.
Also a person suggested looking up mormonstories, but I can't see their comment anymore in this thread (it's in my notifications though idk glich or deleted). I think it's a TH-cam channel full of ex-mormos explaining their experiences, which I do find beneficial and helpful.
Sounds like a huge waste of time
Ryan Johnson the documentary? Probably for someone who is not interested in mormonism. However i think every member should watch it, or at the very least the first two hours. The history of the church is borderline corrupted (at least by the way the church teaches it). Mormons need to see an unbiased and fully factual history of their church with nothing left out.
For example, most mormons believe that polygamy was "just a phase." But in reality, it was a mandatory commandment from God, similar to how baptism is in order to go to heaven.
Sorry if I rambled a little, but I don't think very many people know how bad this situation is.
OMG
who would've thought that mormons use *gasp*
..logical fallacies!?
Just Here nope never there just good Christan cult they don't lie or anything lol
Don't forget: the second "m" is silent.
I like the analogy. don't like the context they are using it in. could be used in a scientific environment then it would be interesting and useful. funny thing is from a different perspective the analogy is saying gather all the evidence before you make a decision, don't rely on the one thing you have found to dictate your beliefs. ironic
Bea Warwick yea true.
I think that a variation of the analogy better describes gnostic theists:
...one blind man grabs a tree and says, "It's an elephant." Another man grabs the tip of a spear. "It's an elephant," he proclaims. A third man grabs a rope. "It's an elephant," he says.... Later on, the blind men gather together and write an authoritative book on elephants.
It makes valid points in the right context.
@@yadabub Your analogy would be perfect if there was absolutely no direct evidence in all of human existence that elephants existed at all.
Old story. I first heard it from my mother when I was 5. the moral of the story is that you only have part of the bigger picture, you should never try to handle everything alone, and always keep your mind open to new ideas. which is one of the reasons I became an atheist.
1:06 The elephant about to be molested
they must be in a cartoon: a real elephant would've trampled their asses :)
No shit Sherlock
Mormons? Logical fallacies? They would never! Also, first
fuck
Have you ever met a mormon? Because I am mormon, and every mormon I have EVER met agrees with the theory of evolution.
noah walters Yes, in fact much of my extended family are Mormons, and I care for them deeply. I hold nothing against individual Mormons as a whole, I just know that the organization does some intellectually dishonest things. And believing in evolution does not mean that one does not commit logical fallacies
True, but lots of organizations commit logical fallacies all the time. Just look at politics.
noah walters Fair. Although I’m not saying that many organizations don’t, just that this one does. Others doing it doesn’t make it better.
Your voice is so smooth and comforting to me for some reason. It's like a friend telling me that it's okay that I left Mormonism. Or that it's okay to live my life separate from a cult. Thank you for being something that I always look forward too, especially when I've been depressed lately. Thank you Telltale♡♡
Idk why but this guy sounds like another TH-camr called protomario
Telltale, I love your videos! As a gay woman who was raised by two Greek Orthodox (although very progressive) parents, I've had a weird relationship with religion. I like your logical outlook on things, and I would love for you to analyze Greek orthodoxy!
ok I get this isn't what this is about but wtf do all the cults have good animators? and why isn't this the most important question?
byu (mormon university) has a really good animation major, so they can get animators pretty cheap.
Marina H. While being Imprisoned by the Cults :(
There are a lot of talented mormons in all walks if life.
Great video Telltale!
Also you're right on about string theory. It's only a theory in mathematics. In a scientific perspective it is only considered a hypothesis. We only have math to back up string theory currently, though we are working out methods to test it. One of these methods is observing discontinuity in the specific heat of Bose-Einstein Condensates (or other ultracold atoms) (Kinda impractical but it would work). Another method would be smashing protons into each other and seeing if it the resulting collision reveals any superparticles (A good method of testing but the LHC can't accelerate particles enough to try yet). In pure mathematics, string theory is incredibly well established and can accurately describe strings in ten dimensions (and maybe eleven soon!), the math behind these is well backed up and shows that it's possible string theory could exist, but doesn't prove that it does.
Anyway sorry for geeking out here I just like physics.
When your a utahn and watch these Mormon vids that telltale makes
I feel you as a Utahn myself. This place is overrun with mormons
@@ChesterStone511 overrun? Ya think?
I am a member of the LDS church (but don’t consider myself as one really). And I want to say that every point you made is absolutely true. You are highly educated in what you are saying and prove your point very well. I wish a lot of Mormons would come to know that actual truth. Thank you for delivering that truth !
At..uh. 3:02.. Anyone else notice the guy to the right holding an axe at the elephants leg? Am I the only one slightly terrified? 😂
That's the guy who thinks it's a tree
And the elephant just stood bye meekly and allowed itself to be felt up by 6 blind perverts.
"No one knows anything"
"But we do, it says so in this book."
I liked the poem, like youre mate saying "nah I've seen Samurai movie, Japanese used this" And you saying "nah I've seen anime Japanese used this"
Akamyne I'm pretty sure at least once my school applied it to something else. Or they just told us about it
I remember sitting in a testimony meeting one Sunday and the guy bearing his testimony flat out said "Don't trust science".
im not an atheist, but i still LOVE these videos
JDM A'F are you Yeemo?
JDM A'F im guessing you are too then
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
I love your videos! The fan art in this video was very good.
When he started talking, I was like
"I know who this speaker is!!"
He use to be my fav back when I was a member.
Up until 6:44 the video was a decently compelling argument against religion
"The Earth is a cube we were all wrong!"
You know I feel like we'd have noticed that by now, what with the fact that such corners would be pretty damn obvious and we'd have several very obvious edges
One little error in the vid your talking about and in your own. Most people always knew that the earth was not flat, that is something that was made up. To almost anyone who lives at the ocean it is pretty easy to understand that the world is not flat. (the thing they were uncertain about was how big it was, Columbus thought it was much smaller, hence why he thought to have found India and not America.)
In some religions there is 0 logic sometimes
Talking about planes?
Was the speaker Utchdorf?
great video, but can you please change up the music a bit? feels a bit repetitive when you binge your entire channel because you just found it
0:49 in the middle is Mowgli form the jungle-book
I honestly don’t have much experience with Mormons except for a bad ex girlfriend who didn’t talk about it much so thank you for explaining this
7:19 we do have unicorns! They’re great swimmers and even gave their own theme song:
NARWHALS NARWHALS SWIMMING THRIUGH THE OCEAN MAKEUNG GREAT COMMOTION
That Hydralisk though! We found ourselves a starcraft fan!
the end haha I got kinda excited bout that.
Can you do a video over Wicca?
Really snuck that god stuff in at the last second, for a second i though @telltale was trolling us cause the whole time I was thinking about how perfectly that analogy fit religion.
I got a Bible app ad before this video
The Musical Masochist omg same was it a bible book app with a blonde chic in it lol?
Poot Lovoto Yeah!
Me too
Funny... I am from Portugal and I have quite never seen an ad on this ad and if one appears, it is from food companies.
The Musical Masochist i got nets (ellel ministries) like something about the sheep not knowing how to apply bible teachings to life
Why was 1 blind man wearing gladses?
ExMormon here, Uchtdorf, who is the Mormon speaker used to be my very very favorite apostle of all time. And now that I’m out everything that comes out of his mouth is just ridiculous. So glad I discovered the truth and left this crazy religion. Thank you so much for this video.
The Blind Men and the Elephant I've read about this on Wikipedia! :D en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_men_and_an_elephant
Time for Sunday Science class with Telltale, yay! \(^o^)/
I feel bad for that poor elephant. It sure looks pissed!
No unicorns on earth?! NOOO!! 😭 Although maybe that's for the best, as humans would probably drive them into extinction like so many other species... :(
At least that guy is not a flat earther
what program do you use for your drawings in the background?
There are unicorns if you consider the rhinoceros a unicorn.
That's what it was originally called! Not a mythical horse with wings and a horn on its head! You are right.
"We've reviewed the whole elephant, and we know what it is now".
LOL. Sounds like you think everything's all been figured out.
Science hadn't even scratched the surface.
I think the poem is kind of garbage, and yet has potential.
First, none of them can be right because they all make comparisons and assumptions (the elephant being "like" a snake, a tree, a wall, a rope, a spear and a fan) instead of staying as vague as their ability to observe (their blindness is essential to the poem). Also, are they observing the same thing ? If you tell the story from the perspective of the blind men, do they know they are observing the same thing ? is an ear a leg ? Is a tail a prehensile trunk ? And why did none of those men tried to observe the same thing than another blind men ? They all stay where they are, do they even want to know what they're observing ?
Second, all of their observations MUST be coherent and consistent since they observe the same thing. Think about light and it's double-nature (wave-particle), some people think only one is correct (either ware or particle) while scientists now says light can be both, and therefore IS both.
Third, technically the blind men were all right. They just needed to put their observations all together and start with an hypothesis about "what is an elephant" and then, through scientific methodology, end with a "theory of the elephant".
And don't talk about the final God of the gaps (8:40), especially when God is defined in a way to make it unverifiable and irrefutable.Yes, don't talk about God explaining reality to Job about Leviathan, the pillars of the earth or rain. Also, if the Gospels are the ultimate Truth, the real theory of Everything, why are they incoherent and inconsistent with History, Archaeology, Biology, Physics, and why are the Gospels proven to be the result of dogmatic decisions about their content and their interpretation ? Maybe because it's only a religious matter.
But since it's a Mormon apologetics video, it has no further critic about this poem and starts to make fallacies about God.
Also, blind man with an axe. Sounds safe.
But I did appreciate this poem anyways. Thanks Mormons. ^_^
Join us, in the furry side of the Force ! :)
You don't understand, this isn't a Mormon story. This is an ancient parable from India with multiple versions and endings. My favorite version has the blind men show each other the different parts until they figure out that the elephant is like all of those things, which highlights the scientific method and not being a dick.
A more common one has a guy with sight coming along and seeing them beat the crap out of each other and then shows all the men all the parts and explains how they're put together. This highlights the importance of multiple perspectives, how you shouldn't get into fights with insufficient data, and you know, how it's possible there is an answer the someone has already discovered.
On a related note: fuck this video and their forced conclusion.
I personally think the poem is a great reflection of how different people perceive things differently. All of the blind men are right about some aspect of the elephant, but they each argue that their perception is fully correct, instead of taking a step back and trying to figure out why nobody else is coming to the same conclusion. That analogy can be applied to so many things. I personally think it's a great analogy for why scholarly consensus is important - nobody perceives everything exactly the same, and everyone goes into research on any given subject with preconceived notions and biases. If you get any one person's perspective on something, it won't give you objective truth. If you ask a whole bunch of people, see how much of what they say lines up, and further explore the differences between different people's perceptions, though, you'll come to understand something closer to reality.
The Mormon video applied the analogy to something without thinking things through, though; by their logic, the Book of Mormon is someone who can see, while the people are blind. Therefore, only through reading the book of Mormon can they know the truth. That's silly, though, because if you look at all the other belief systems of the world, they all say that their own ideas are the true ones; that makes the religions themselves equivalent to the blind men, with each insisting on the accuracy of its perception, while none have the full truth. A more logical application of the Elephant poem to religion would be pointing to every religion on Earth and saying "Each of these were created by "blind" men, who may have perceived something accurate, but couldn't see the whole picture. If we get together and compare them all, maybe we'll get closer to the truth." Of course, that implies that all religions hold some truth, rather than some or all of them being total bull, but hey, it's a better analogy than the one they went with.
Also, don't thank the Mormons, they didn't write the poem. It was composed in English by John Saxe, based on an older fable from India.
We have at least one state in the US that wants blind people to be armed with guns. Let that sink in.
jujuplayboy Blind Man with an Axe sounds like a band name.
Wasn't the story of the elephant originally a Buddhist story?
Glad to have found your channel. You're logical and give insight on a new way of thinking for me.
Awesome work^^ 💝
Notice how Elder Uchtdorf's voice has been enhanced with an echo-effect to make him sound more authoritative here. . . a subtle form of manipulation intended to enhance his status as gods' authorized spokesperson
I watched like 90% of your videos in the past 3 days while grinding my characters in disgaea and doing other stuff. Honestly i have no connection to cults or even religion in general and i dont really care but i still love your videos. Good job keep em up !
Hey Telltale, I'm a big fan of your awesome videos!, you should make a video about la Santa/Santisima Muerte, I would love to hear your thoughts on it!
I love how at 9:00 all the blind people stared at the light.
Thank you for using the unicorn thing for the falsifiable theories. I used the same one for that fallacy.
There was an ad for a religious ministry in this video
I saw something like that on Martha speaks (on PBS)
any time you upload a video and i get an alert for it, i literally say "YES I LOVE THIS SHIT" and INSTANTLY click on it. I love me some cult education ^_^
So, I'm Mormon and I believe in almost everything about science. Evolution, earths scientific age, and even the big bang to an extent. One thing most Mormons believe is that science and religion are two sides of the same coin in a way. Religion is the explanation in the supernatural, and science is the explanation of the mortal. Let's take earths age for instance. In genesis, it is said that christ made the earth in 6 days. But we have been told in scripture that time for God is different than time for us, not to mention night and day are not made until later in the "week". Who is to say that dinosaurs were not alive during that time? Or that the earth was morphed through science by God? The problem with a lot of religion is literal interpretation, and that is why science and religion so often disagree. Love your videos mate. I'm learning a lot from these 😁
A fly has a life span of seven days but at the end of its life does it feel it only lived seven days or an entire lifetime? Humans live about 75 years and at the end of our lives we feel we've lived a lifetime. For GOD thousand of years is like a day. This is how ive always imagined it.
i like how guessing what you're drawing in the background is kind of like a game, like... it took my a little bit to tell that the hairy avocado was actually a kiwi...
God watching this stuff reminds me how nice it was to be mormon. It felt good. There’s a reason why people join/stay in the church and that’s because it oversimplifies life and morality and gives you a safety net. I live in Utah. My family is mormon. They are trying to “rescue” me. It’s conditional love and it sucks. Everything would be so much easier if I just went back. I would have a social life, dating wouldn’t be a nightmare, I could have all of life’s answers spoon-fed to me by “men of god.”
The mormon church is fake and a scam (seriously? 10%??) and I will never go back. But I’m glad that you are empathetic towards indoctrinated people. It’s so much easier to let other people control you. It’s not healthy, but it’s easy.
If only mormons were actually about love and not control- for me, I couldn’t care less about its history. I left because I was sick of self-righteous asshats telling me I was worth less because I’m a woman; that all my gay friends will burn in hell; that my divine destiny is to breed and do housework.
Mormons who play the “religious minority” bullshit make me livid. When you’re the ones at the receiving end of public policy controlled by religion, then you can talk. Fuck outta here with that bullshit.
What makes me most angry is that I know how people view me now- an apostate, sad, unhappy, “lost” etc. They will always see me as a project, not a person.
Ugh.
That sounds horrifying.
When I told my mom I believe in evolution she said she’d failed as a parent.
Fangirl.with. problems lmao. Quite the opposite
That’s sad. I hope she doesn’t really believe that. Think of some really good character trait you share with her, and remind her that she taught you to be that way by example. (Perhaps she taught you kindness, tolerance, charity, industry, law-abiding, or even ‘just’ good manners.)
the.most. fragile.capricorn When I told my JW dad about bad things about the JWs he called me the messenger of Satan.
What's ironic is, the blind who simply accept their own limited understanding of the situation and refuse to seek the entire picture more aptly describes the religious. Mainly because the people who actually are making these inquiries and discoveries are NOT blind...
What I also find funny is that they still claim that God is the Source of Absolute unchanging truth...when God not only got things WRONG in the Bible...but he also LIES - several times - throughout the bible as well...
The problem here is, is their assumption that just because most of the things that people "believed in" before were wrong - most of those misconceptions actually being the fault of religion and not science - that somehow people are incapable of knowing ANYTHING that's actually right...
I really like the poem though
I was born LDS, it sucks and it ruined my life, for one, made it impossible to get a relationship last time I got close was with a girl in the church but couldn't handle that I had doubts. And said she couldn't date me for that lone reason she said other then for that in every way you're perfect.... I've been a lonely virgin with no chance since, doesn't help where I live is basically all mormons and low population so there is basically no choice, or option. Then throw on top of that I got injured, and have difficulty exercising and getting a job it's hopeless at this point.
Holy shit bro. Hang in there. It's never too late.
6:47-7:41 Did...did you just draw a Hydralisk? o.o
Just want to say that thanks for having Merch that could be worn in public without looking like a tool
But that means god is impossible to prove nor disprove by your argument. ??
Hey telltale what’s your opinion on last thursdaism ( the theory that we were all created [ let’s say Thursday ] and we were made with the memories and illusion we’ve been here all along )
Kannst du die Westboro Baptist Church machen?
7:41 was that a Hydralisk?
yes
I’m no expert on logical fallacies, so I might be wrong about this, but I see two after watching your video. First, a straw man fallacy. You’re taking what is said in the video and applying it to beliefs about evolution, but nowhere in the video does it talk about evolution, and, as was mentioned by another commenter, evolution is even taught at Mormon church sponsored schools. Mormon church leaders may at some point have taught against evolution, but your information is a little dated in terms of generally accepted beliefs in the Mormon church. Granted, changing beliefs could be construed as a problem, but that’s another story. Second, as another viewer pointed out, this video itself arguably commits the same fallacy it accuses Mormons of in that it equates religious beliefs with the scientific method, which is only as accurate to the extent that religious beliefs can be considered analogous to scientific beliefs. I’ll watch a couple of your other videos, but I wasn’t overly impressed with this one.
Hey there, I would like your take on Mooji and if he is a cult
So which one the guys from the poem touched the "second trunk" of the elephant?!
My old religion teacher referenced this poem all the time.
I'm an ex Mormon, and I do not believe in their teachings but a google search will reveal that evolutionary biology is taught at BYU (a Mormon run University). I don't think that if evolution violated Mormon beliefs they would allow this.
Gwen Fox the official stance is supposed to be that we have no stance. At BYUI, most college educated members, particularly in STEM fields, seem to believe in evolution though. It's kind of a weird contradiction
Never underestimate the power of doublethink, friendo. There's a lot of faithful members doing serious academic research into fields that discredit their personal beliefs with a smile on their faces
At least in the case of BYU-I, I'm betting that's not the case, we simply don't get enough students who are non-mormons for that to matter. I think it's more the fact that they simply *can't* get around the fact evolution has so much support, it simply makes too much sense.
And even if we think that evolution contradicts their doctrine, they don't. In my entire life, living in completely mormon circles for two and a half decades, I can think of two people who explicitly stated that they didn't think evolution was true. I'm sure my grandparents had their doubts, but that's more them being old -- most kids my age believe in both.
Thomas Robertson that was taught to my class in seminary haha. It made us feel like the story was more believable
"If evolution was true, then there was no Garden of Eden, no Adam and Eve, and no fall. If there was no fall, of death did not come into the world as the scriptures declared that it did, and to be consistent, if you accept the evolution this is the view you must assume, then there was no need for a redemption, and Jesus Christ is not the son of God, and her did not die for the transgression of Adam, not for the sins of the world."
Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation 1:141-42
They contradict themselves left and right. Ex mormon here.
When you try your best but you don't succeed. When you get what you want but not what you need.
Critical thinking, I like the one, "It begs the question" meaning lots of cliff hangers they leave you with, all over the map but not to the point.
Have you heard of Timecube
The problem I face when bringing up the legitimacy of the Bible is that LDS don’t really believe in the Bible it at the very least not all of it, which lets them cherry pick what it’s “correct”and what it’s not, another way to ignore the bad and only take in the good of the Bible.
Also there’s the issue of genealogy and how some (including my mother) have dreams about missing people/names and find the missing names IRL to be the exact ancestor missing.
What ever I say it always goes back to “if it wasn’t real than how do u explain that “
am really looking for opinions here
Am two years late!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
More exposing Mormonism videos, please!
I believe you've missed the mark of the poem.
"Humans can only receive truth through the events of their life". The men were adamant of the object they perceived it to be due to the part of the animal they were touching.
You're not attacking what he is saying you're attacking the logic of the poem and you clearly don't understand the poem in question.
Let me make this simple for you.
The men are blind you can't see the whole elephant and never will.
At 2:57, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_fallacy is used to reach your conclusion, which is not necessarily correct. The analysis brought forth by the apologist is correct (if a and b is part of c, and a and b is a part of d, then c = d, or en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faulty_generalization#Hasty_generalization). He then makes the same logical fallacy later in the video to come to an incorrect conclusion, which is of course is a curious myopia, but that is another story.
Can you do a video on Free Masonry ? (I think that’s what it’s called)
So I don’t know if people have heard, but the rapture is supposed to happen on April 18 and I don’t know what to think about the situation.
It bugs me that I get an ad for PragerU before your video.
Mormonism is more like someone tells a blind man an elephant is a big tree, then the blind man desides it also has giant tentacles.
At around 7:30 are you subliminally saying that you own a unicorn?
Another great video telly!
Keep them coming.
"everything you see is only part of the whole but the part I see is representative of the whole." Do they just not see how their analogy applies to them? when you claim something with absolute certainty, you blind yourself to the bigger picture. If the supposedly intelligent blind men compared each others experiences and felt all the different parts of the elephants body for themselves, they would have a much better chance of getting the right answer. likewise if the people who made this video had the courage to consider that their beliefs might be wrong they might figure out why the message in it doesn't make any sense.
I started reading the Book of Mormon once that was given to me. I stopped when it said that the Hebrew escapees reached the New World. and saw, amongst other things, horses. Joseph Smith didn't know, when he made that rubbish up, that horses had been extinct in the Americas for some 10,000 years.
this video somehow reminded me to take my meds
9:02 This is definitely the way my brothers
How does this guy know that he's not one of the blind guys feeling the elephant? For all we know, Mormonism could be getting part of the observation and then make the wrong conclusion like other religions.
Unless the earth is actually 3-sphere that we’ve only experienced as a 2-sphere due to our dimensional restraints #stringtheoryyall
Love it...!
analogies:
sometimes DIFFERENT things are *DIFFERENT* things...
Have you watched the ExMormon TH-camr Thinker of Thoughts. He did an excellent rebuttal to this talk.
Actually it was a well and an obelisk that they did the measuring with.
There actually was an extinct species of rhino with one giant horn that inspired the unicorn, so unicorns not existing is a good example. It was found fairly recently. :)
The reference video never drew any parallels to evolution or string hypothesis. He was only applying the poem to personal life. He is saying that because we are not omnipotent, we will inevitably make errors in judgment. Thus we must trust the word of the one who is omnipotent. He is not using the poem to try and discredit evolution.
2:35 wouldn't it be a weak inductive argument, rather than a fallacy?
If a building took a builder....
A painting had to have a painter....
The how we so blind as to not give credit to all that which has been created?
Are we blind too?
Not to mention the arrogance of "you can't possibly know for sure your right, now let me tell you about this thing I know for sure is right"
Hey telltale, I haven’t watched the whole video, but I’m just gonna assume it good. Love your vids, human be being
Ps. Where’s my fan art 😢
"In this video, I debunk mormons use of an analogy and why it doesn't work at all."
It does not work for you as an atheist who does not understand the spiritual world and how God does things.
Just for clarification.
did you watch the video??
This made me laugh out loud. "Jesus Christ! That snake has a spear!"