Love your thoughts at the end on the jury and televote, 100% agreed there. Plus, I felt this year the balance of the final result leaned towards the televote favoured songs anyway, with Serbia and Moldova finishing ahead of Greece and Portugal, so one could say the people’s vote prevailed in the end. I still feel like the juries got it spot on this year with no major “Norway 2019” robberies, even though some songs were slightly overrated or underrated.
From what I've seen of how Italians talk about San Remo, and my good Italian friend in particular - they see that show as really "classy". They also care more about San Remo than Eurovision. Spain's performance could be seen as "not classy" - summed up by my mum with her clanger of a line "why does she want to show the world her clitoris?" 🤦.
Never forget that Festival di Sanremo (one word) is what the Eurovision is modelled after so it's obviously much more important for us than ESC. As for the Spanish entry it's just not in our taste and, in fact, it did poorly in our charts too compared to other Countries.
Well, Poland 2014 cannot certainly be classified as "classy" either and Italy gave it 8 points, being the 2nd highest mark they received (only after Germany's 10 points). Firstly, I think what heavily influenced the Italian audience in this case was one of its commentators' rude words. He said Chanel was a copy of Jlo and that we should have chosen Varry Brava instead of her. That is disrespectful and clearly affects people's thoughts. Secondly, I think the Italian jury voted strategically (not the first time). They didn't give points to any potential contender, except for the UK. And then, there's plenty of italian people coming with the excuse "it's not our taste". Really? And do you think that is a valid explanation as to why Italy was the only country out of the 39 to not give any points to Spain? Stop trying to justify a dirty game with poor arguments like "it's just a matter of taste" or "there was no bad intention, it just happened" Also, if we follow that logic, Italy didn't give any points to Spain in 2012 or 2014 with "classy" and "more-appropiate-to-their-taste" entries. So what did happen then?
@@xander2609 omg Spanish fans are not only rude an not classy, they are not very bright either! They keep repeating this idiocy about one Italian commentator of ESC, Malgioglio, who didn't like Chanel and in their limited minds was thus able to influence an entire Country. Malgioglio's act is to trash people, all of them: about Moldova he said that if he met them on a train ride he would jump out of the window for how terrible was their song and yet their song is still in our charts, Chanel's isn't. Commentators of every Country do that, often far worst than Malgioglio. He trashed everyone except Sam Ryder and only because he found him attractive. Furthermore the first to trash Chanel were you Spaniards, calling her unrepeatable insults, because you wanted Tanxugueiras to win Benidorm. Every Country plays their game: Spain 12 points to Azerbaijan? ahaha Anyway you can't even win ESC Junior and you won't win ESC for a very long time! (I agree about Poland 2014 though)
@@HeyThreshold Firstly, no, that's not what all the commentators do. And every commentator who thinks of themselves as professional shouldn't make those comments. Literally, the postcards are not even a minute long. Why bother to trash the contestants in such a short time, when you could talk about their life achievements or their countries' history at Eurovision? The spirit of the contest is creating bonds within Europe, so mocking the artists doesn't particularly align with that message. You can make humour in many different ways. Secondly, yeah, Chanel received a lot of criticism at the beginning from many toxic spanish eurovision fans and that's really sad. But you shouldn't take that as a way to talk about ALL the Spanish Eurovision fans, including me. Because the funny thing is that I voted for Chanel at BenidormFest. In fact, I got a lot of toxic replies by Tanxugueiras' fans every time I always defended Chanel. Some toxic spanish fans from Twitter don't represent all of us Thirdly, it's funny how you talk about as "not only rude an not classy" and "not very bright either". And yet, you proceed to write a disrespectful reply, justifying your commentator's disgraceful comments and dark humour, and filled with the same toxicity you complain about. Also, you didn't even answer my final question. Italy hasn't voted Spain in any of the 3 times we've come in the top 10 in the last decade; but you did vote for us when we came 25th in 2013 and 22nd in 2016. Am I supposed to take that seriously and think that's normal? I don't know how much it will take us to win. But at least, I can say Spain has appreciated Italy whenever they've sent good entries; we have given you 12 points on many occasions, regardless of the genre of your song (I'm also sure that Spain is among the top 5 countries that has voted Italy the most so it's even funnier and more ironic that you say we are "not very bright"), and our commentators have never disrespected Italy's representatives. I'm afraid Italy cannot say the same when it comes to appreciating Spain's best entries. Btw, our jury wasn't the only one to give 12 points to Azerbaijan. And it also awarded points to Italy, Sweden, UK, Serbia and Greece; all of whom were fierce rivals for us. The Italian jury, not only did not vote for Spain, but they didn't even vote for Sweden either (now it's when I remember Italy didn't vote for Loreen either in 2012). So the situation is clearly not the same
@@xander2609 A lot of commentators do that, one again check Graham Norton or others (there are videos on here that report the most savage comments). Second of all Malgioglio was just a commentator, there are 2 presenters with him that talk properly about the artists, during the postcards, and always contradict whatever Malgioglio says. If you are so up in your head to not being able to take comedy, it's your problem: we make humour our way, thank you very much! Oh and also look up what "dark humour" is please. This is not about you and who you voted but it stands that most of the Spanish fans criticized her badly, much, much worst than "discount J-Lo". Secondly, of course not all Spanish fans behaved badly but I didn't see a single one, of the good ones, call out the ones who were. Are you seriously complaining about my reply and you seriously expected to receive our votes when you called us "mafiosos, bastards, shitty" for 2 months? During JESC your people wrote to a Polish girl that Hitler was right in invading Poland, your people wrote to Ukraine that they might have won ESC but they will lose the war and so on. Again, this was not all of the Spanish fans but a consistent number and no one called them out. It was so bad that not only it reached ESC commentators, they all mentioned it, but also the artists. This is real toxicity, not my reply! And drop this arrogance to pretend people vote for you: great performance but Chanel's lyric are embarrassing and if you were honest you'd admit it. They are so bad that they have been called out by some Spanish feminists too. Anyway you think we don't vote fairly? Stop voting for us by stop pretending you are fair having voted for your "fierce competitors": this year there was no real competition considering Ukraine had an unprecedented 62% odds of winning! As for the past I didn't even remember you had been in top 10 recently cause I can't remember one single entry that had a lasting impact and if it did it certainly didn't for me. P.s. Nope, you didn't magically remember we didn't vote for Loreen in 2012: you either read it on Twitter or from another commenter who posted it here before you!
I can’t remember what years but France and Armenia have definitely voted for each other before which I believe is due to a large Armenian diaspora in France so I think it is “expected” rather than weird such as the results from Greece but I’m not from either so I’m happy to be corrected. I love stats and Eurovision so great work this season and I’m glad I found your channel 👍
I think it was almost inevitable that we would get countries with a televote of 10 or less because we had Ukraine getting an unprecedented amount of televotes and also we had in the final jury baits that barely got any televotes in the semis. I think if they made a rule about needing a certain minimum from jury/televote in the semis to get to the final, you'll be able to avoid a lot of unpleasantness (e.g. you need at least 15 from the jury and at least 15 in the televote, just as an arbitrary base)
I'm just so happy that Romania didn't flop with the televoting, 53 points is really good, considering they performed in the death slot. I still wish France, Estonia and Poland got more points, they were my favorites in the final. Portugal defying the odds and getting top ten even though they were performing third was also nice. This year, I surprisingly agreed more with the juries than the televoters, apart from Romania, even though most of the time it's the other way around.
Your point with Greece's jury votes not being exchanged is mute... we dont know how Azerbaijan and Poland juries would have actually voted. Greece might have been much higher in their rankings. Greece also gave relatively high points to Romania so people are theorizing that Greece was part of the pack albeit in the wrong semi final.
Regarding some strange juries' voting that you write off as non suspicious because there is no reciprocity for me that is not necessarily the case. One Country might bribe just few jurors in several Countries' juries, enough to get a decent placement without looking too evident (say like this year "6 Countries fiasco") and this even without the knowledge of the ESC organization of said Country. Jurors are supposed to be secret but does anyone seriously think they all are?
yes, you are absolutely correct. the only issue with that is that it is much harder to prove. There is definitely some suspicions with that, especially with AZE, but unless a juror comes out and says that that is what happened, we can only guess
Ok Italian here 🇮🇹 I will give an attempt to interpret the Spain vote Let’s take the jury as an example: you’ve already seen other comments about Italy creating extra competition with France and Spain for every little petty thing, and I think that might have influenced the Italian jury score towards Spain. You also might have heard about us preferring classier acts, but if that’s the case we wouldn’t have scored Moldova that high in the televote. Don’t get me wrong I love Trenuletul and I think it’s musically intricate but it’s not created to be “classy”. I believe that the real reason the Italian televoters didn’t vibe with Chanel is because we tend to look at the “female bop dancer” genre as trashy music by default. The general Italian televote will not care if she can hit the notes flawlessly while dancing, they will think “huh another female pop dancer, why are there so many? Boring, this is not original, this is supposed to be the festival of the best of the best right?” Meanwhile I believe that the Italian jury didn’t vibe with it because the Italian music industry is full of people who appreciate lyrical depth in songs, that’s why they gave points to Serbia and gave 12 to Netherlands, so it was obvious at least for me that the jury wouldn’t give a lot of love to Chanel, nor Subwoolfer for that matter Btw I like your Sanremo videos, don’t worry we don’t hate you😍
Haha thank you Danclam 😂 ok that makes sense. I remember there being many Italians commenting on my Sanremo 2020 video who didnt think that Electra should be taken seriously when she entered (although i just saw that her first album wascalledd Twerking queen 😂)
@@ESCTom AHA good example! Elettra Lamborghini’s genre and her music hasn’t always been traditionally massively present in Sanremo, so her being there and competing was a huge deal. However, nobody expected her to do well because of this, I think that’s why you had those comments You know how a lot of artists tend to send a song to Sanremo which is a more toned-down version of their artistry to appeal to wider masses? That’s what she did, as you see from her first album’s title, Sanremo 2020 Elettra was pretty tame:)
I wonder how high can an entry place without getting a single 12, because look at Portugal this year, 5th with jury and 9th overall with not one country giving it 12. Also another thing that I think is just wholesome is how Iceland got 8 of their 10 televote points from Ukraine. I can totally see why, this is exactly the kind of comforting song we need right now + the girls are so supportive and outspoken about what is happening.
Technically a song could win with no 12 points, if it consistently gets 10s and there's a lot of variations on who gets the 12s. That would be a fun Eurovision to watch if it ever happened (not sure if it already has?).
Jury votes.. meh. Who's listening to "We're not the saaame"? (While I still like listening to Fulenn). And the problem with TeleVoting is the price difference of voting. I think it's 0.19 euro to vote in Uk, while in Estonia its 1.6 euro. Here its 1.19 euro. So I can't afford to vote left and right just for the sake of correct ranking. (I would've also voted for France if it was cheaper). So bye bye correct ranking..
Maybe if you only had to pay to be able to vote, and then you can vote freely for all participating countries, then yes, you'd see more appropriate results (in televoting).
Im at my most uncomfortable when the juries really mark down something that is popular in the televote, which then severely impacts the final outcome (Keiino for one, although not in the case of Poland 2016 - i really detested that song 😂). And ive often thought that it should be perhaps 33%/66% Jury/Tele, however, as always Tom, your sage words about the balancing effect of the juries swung me round 😉
lol well youre currently 1-1 right now so that's not too bad 😅 Ive heard the 33/66% or 40/60 etc idea floated around before. If i end up doing that jury video, ill explain when they cant do that for various practical/mathematical reasons
I was thinking Ukraine may or may or not do well with the Juries because of they didnt want to be accused of the sympathy Vote. I saw alot of people voting for other acts because they didnt want a sympathy Win (Which is probably why Malta and others didn't give them 12 televote points)
I think jury would have varied very much by country. Like I would expect places like Iceland, Lithuania, Poland to be very sympathetic and also enjoy the sound a lot as well.
Greece was clearly part of the cheater's club. They gave 12 points to Azerbaijan, 10 points to Poland, 6 to Moldova and 7 to Romania. We don't know the real points of Montenegro, Poland, San Marino, Georgia, Romania and Azerbaijan for the final so we cannot prove that this cheating was taking place from both directions, but this pretty much suggests that. 🙂 P.S. I just noticed that you say that below as well.
Spaniards on social media confirm to be the worst fans ever and I suggest people find out the disgusting shit they created at the last Junior Eurovision and no, it's not a minority considering that sparked a huge controversy. We started receiving crap from them months in advance, when Italy was favourite, and than they directed it towards Ukraine. Beforehand they attacked French fans because they decided that Alvan had copied Tanxugueiras. I don't know what they complain about considering their jury gave zero votes to Måneskin (while their televote gave us 10 points proving their jury voted strategically) last year and we didn't say anything. The fact that both the Italian jury and the televote gave Chanel zero points confirms that it's a song that is not in our taste: juries can vote strategically, an entire population listen to what they like. Further confirmation: Chanel never peaked in any Italian charts unlike The Netherlands (our 12 jury points), Moldova or Ukraine. We gave The Netherlands 12 points we got 0\0 from them but we ain't complaining. Besides the first one who heavily and badly, with unrepeatable offences, criticized Chanel when she won the Benidorm Festival were the very same Spaniards who are acclaiming her today.
Indeed. There was even a movement that wanted that Portugal would take tanxugueiras as their representative for Eurovision, because Galicia and North of Portugal are so culturally close. But i mean, what arrogance… first, actually considering that Portugal would do that, assuming that the Tanxugueiras song would inevitably be better than whatever Portugal would send, and turning their back to selected song and then all of the sudden, looks like the whole world owes them something
@@Janecas exactly, just extreme arrogance mixed with ignorance and intolerance. They nit-pick on what others do completely ignoring what they do which is often hundreds of times worst.
@JLO Lomelino Exactly as if Chanel's song is this masterpiece that everyone must adore.The performance was good but the lyrics are terrible and they were heavily criticised in Spain too... until she arrived third! 🤦🏻♂️
Realistically the only way Ukraine's televote record can be beaten is if a bunch of other countries get added. (Or, if there are changes made to the televote score somehow). I think I heard that the current cap is 44 countries. Not sure about that though. In theory more countries could be added, such as former competitors etc., if there are more than 2 semis. But the current very impressive record will probably stand for a very long time.
I think people are still interested because we don't even know yet in which country the next competition will be held. Normally at this time we would be speculating about the host city. Now we are speculating about host country AND city. After Ukraine won, Russia started bombing the town that the winners were from. So we can assume that the Russians will bomb the contest if it is held in Ukraine. I follow the invasion every day. The orcs are still lobbing missiles towards Kyiv and Lviv occasionally. Even though their aim is abysmal, they can still hit an arena if they try enough times.
This is a major reason why I think another country will host it next year, even if the conflict ends tomorrow, security will have a massive presence and will be on high alert and it might be too much of a logistical headache for the EBU
@@KylieWilson Yes, I agree. Even if the war ends soon, Russia can't be trusted to not send missiles into Ukraine afterwards. The rest of Europe would have to guarantee Ukraine's air space security. Europe has said no to that so far.
43 and 35 for Estonia and Lithuania?? I just personally don’t understand how songs like those two get below 50 but Portugal got like 170 points in the jury.
It's not "only" Ukraine that is under existential threat. Any country near Russia is under threat. People in countries further away tend to forget this.
That is true, when the war started we had entire families ready to leave and still do now. Everyone fears of an unexpected outcome, especially considering Russia's interest for ex-soviet countries.
@@mihaelamelnic213 Yes. Those of us geographically close to Russia know that we are in danger. Some countries further away are not taking the threat seriously.
About Portugal voting noticed something interesting: they received jury points from 29 of the 39 voting countries (excluding Portugal), compared to only 9 countries by the televote. From the countries that gave points both from the jury and televote, the majority of the points come from the jury. But Italy and Spain, both gave televote points to Portugal and not a single point by the juries, which goes against the vote trend of Portugal this year. So the song did better with the public in Italy and Spain than with the juries.
@@ESCTom Only 13 juries had it higher than 20th. In televote the only higher than 20th was 14th in Malta. It was different for Jendrik, as he was consistently 13-19 in most televotes. I think the conclusion is that Embers is one of the most universally disliked songs in this competition, and nearly all countries agreed that it had to be in the bottom.
I completely understand and respect your clear and excellent analysis of why the juries provides balance. But in spite of all that, I still object to the jury being included at all. Fair or not if the show is not for the viewers then who is it for and that being the case, the public and only the public should get the outcome they want to see. That is my opinion.
@@cstiles1579 I acceept that no system is perfect, but one which gives 50% of the weight of the votes to a small handful of people, often completely trouncing what the public want, is an absolute insult to the voting public, basically telling them they do not have any taste and that their opinion is inferior. That is intolerable. The reasons you give in support of the jury like mitigating block voting (which while it exists has never been proven to be enough to sway a win) , the disadvanage to those in the first half of the draw (well that's just luck really) will never be enough to persuade me that juries have a legitimate place in the competition.
@@jamied674 The EBU should increase and become stricter on the selection of juries (like how in the Olympics the IOC has tried to clamp down on corrupt juries on gymnastics & figure skating competitions). I like the direction of the contest where it’s distancing itself from the very camp acts of the 2000s and moving to a more accessible music. This will actually expand the interest of the contest to a wider audience and we’re starting to see Eurovision songs top the charts and have longevity outside of the contest. If done correctly, the juries can aid that, if they really are music professionals who know the pulse of pop trends (ie radio Dj’s, music columnists, producers, music critics, music talent management agents, songwriters, even pop stars themselves). This is a song contest. Diaspora votes are damaging as it will lead to more predictability & devalues the level of songs. A lot of the fans are so emotionally attached to songs due to both logical & silly reasons and the casual audience still vote for camp or gimmick songs. Many times over the years the juries have prevented songs from tanking when it’s performed well and more often than not the scores balance out in the end and we get a great winner.
The thing I don't get... If the running order is so key, how is the current system justified? Wouldn't it be fair if it went back to totally random as it used to be? I mean all that said, I don't even know why some placements are worse than others. How Is it so influental to sway someone to vote for a different song they'd otherwise vote for? And anyway, I always thought most votes come from hardcore fans who vote for songs they already know and love anyway. So many questions! I've only recently heard of this phenomenon and can't quite wrap my mind around it
Honestly I felt pretty influenced by the running order this year when I voted! I came into the final with a clear picture in my mind of my favourite songs and the ones which I wanted to vote for, but then Estonia (who I had barely even given a thought to before) absolutely blew me away and I thought they were the best possible choice for the final song of the show, so I ended up majorly surprising myself by voting for Estonia. I also almost forgot to vote for Czech Republic in the end, when I’d already come into the final being sure I’d vote for them, so I can definitely see how the running order can make a big difference, and especially more so with casual viewers too.
i mean for those first few spots, showrunners usually put songs that did somewhat well in the semi. good enough to keep the audience entertained but not quite good enough to challenge for the win. it's a self-fulfilling prophecy, really
Great analysis, Tom, and shoutout to that guy Eurovisionario too! I know how I'd love to spend my time if I had more of it ;-) Of course there are the disappointments of countries that I really liked not doing terribly well in the televote (Australia, Czechia, Portugal, Netherlands) but I agree with your explanation. UK coming first with the juries, well I must say I find that slightly overrated. Also, in the end I must say that I think the idea of Europe getting behind Ukraine is quite heartwarming, and the fact that juries really seem to have this idea of "we're just judging an entry by its merits and will not let emotions play any role", like the Dutch jury who was the first to announce its votes and not gave Ukraine any points, does seem a bit cold. Remarks on the outliers in the jury vote, like Greece in this case: I remember very well that in the 90s when there was no televote, there were always countries whose juries voted really weirdly. Like Malta was always totally wacky: I remember them giving 10 to Luxembourg in 1993 and 12 to Slovakia in 1994. In more recent years, I remember Portugal and Bulgaria snubbing each other in 2017, while literally getting points from every single other jury. Talk about ignoring you main competition!
thanks Leendert. Btw i wrote you a long reply to the last video but it didnt send and i didnt have the soul energy to rewrite it 😭 UK coming first wasnt too much of a surprise. Me and a few others predicted it before the event. It really does tick all the criteria that the jury are told to look for, so for once the UK approach of check boxes actually worked for once. Yea im actually very happy with the Ukraine result as well. theyve been EXCEPTIONAL since they joined the competition, and I want them to hold the record for most wins. I really like the song and the music video is quite easily the best music video of any entry this year by 100 miles imo the 2017 thing from Bulgaria and POrtugal was 100% rigged. They knew exactly what they were doing.
I am from Serbia and that zero points from ex yu countries are just hilarious and true because every Balkan meme page on Instagram posted things like: If UK wins, I will spill shit on my TV, lol. And after show I was speaking with my friends and absolutely no one loves UK here. 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Ok I am not Italian but I think Italy not giving points to Spain is down to this rivalry that the Italians unilaterally created with France and Spain (which is not really recicropated), it started in soccer (what else) and is clearly spreading to other spheres. I am still not fully converted to the church of Chanel but I mean Italy’s jury vote was kind of…..”strange”. PS…rumours are sayibg Robbie Williams is kind of interested in representing the UK next year…..will take that with a million pinches of salt. A few yeats back I read an article saying that Morissey was representing the UK, thay clearly never happened (unfortunately).
ah ok, so basically due to a kind of rivalry? I wonder if that style of performance is not really appreciated as well. like i never see anything like that in San Remo for example. I heard about Robbie Williams, i dont mind that if hes got a decent song. but theyve already gone down the route of specifically picking "big names" in 2011-13 and it just didnt work. Emphasis needs to be on the song over the artist with the UK
Italian juries are just weird though... Every year they give points to the most random entry and they were the only country who didn't give Loreen a single point in 2012.
@@80PercentScottish Same.........a huge 'No' to Robbie. Although this rumour has been swirling around since he mentioned that he'd represent the UK at Eurovision some 8 or 9 years ago, I couldn't see it happening then. His career was too big for it to backfire on him. Now, 8 or 9 years later, he's in a position where his career has been barren for some time. The X Factor was the only big thing he's done in the last 5 or 6 years but he's not troubled the charts world wide for at least 10 years now so he's now desperate to revive his career. And after seeing what it's done for Sam Ryders career and seeing that it isn't the 'death rattle' everyone though Eurovision would be, he's now champing at the bit. My real concern would be this. Vocally ges not strong enough anymore. Yes, he's a showman, but he's not anywhere near as relevant either. There's a reason why Brian May and the rest of Queen held a meeting with Robbie some 10 or so years ago, but decided that he wouldn't be the new front man for Queen, even though Robbie was super keen. We need someone fresh, or someone that's established who is currently making waves, that has a good voice that can carry a great song. Sam Ryder ticked all those boxes this year, so we shouldn't just give someone an opportunity just because they once had a big career. We've already done that with the Bonnie Tyler's, Blue's and the Englebert Humperdinks.
Despite the issues we had with the jury vote scandal this year I'm still all for juries in Eurovision and don't understand people who want them gone. It's not a perfect system and there are definitely some screws that can be tightened but like you said, it's miles better than the mess we had in the 2000:s when it was 100% televote. Moldova the second best song this year according to televoters? Yeah, no.
I totally agree. I'm so happy to see this comment. Every time I see someone saying we should get rid of the juries I get really mad and think to myself "It's either: 1. They are from a country which always benefits from the televoting because of neighbouring and diaspora votes, so they're biased. 2. Or they clearly don't know what they're talking about, because they haven't had a look at the votings from the 00's (until 2008)".
oh yes, thats a very good point!!!! Ah ok so interesting to think what POland actually gave them? Were those "actual" result released? I know that some countries said where their original 12 had gone
@@ESCTom Only Romania released their full top 10 in the final. Romania gave Moldova 12, Greece 10, Poland 8, Netherlands 7, Azerbaijan 6. 3 to Spain, nothing to UK/Sweden/Ukraine.
eeeeeeep ok so then clearly the same goes for Azerbaijan as well then when I was making that point. maybe they also actually did give points to Greece as well oh fuck yea Greece put 3 of the cheating countries in their top 4. EEP!
En mi humilde opinión,,,Italia no dio puntos a España,,,por envidia, creo que sabían que Chanel les haría sombra,,y aparte creo que nos tienen manía, en todos los ámbitos,, en deporte pasa igual. Aparte de la falta absoluta de respeto que tuvo el presentador de la televisión italiana mientras Chanel actuaba,,,incitando a la audiencia a que no votarán por España, e insultando a Chanel .
![ไข้ขึ้นเลย! เมื่อแฝดโดนจัดเต็มวัคซีนครบ2เดือน🤒 [cc] แดนแพทตี้ SS2 | EP.54 |](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/z2VHItnyyvY/mqdefault.jpg)
eurovision, stats and maps. My three favourite things. Thanks for all your work Tom
those are my 3 fav things too!
Love your thoughts at the end on the jury and televote, 100% agreed there. Plus, I felt this year the balance of the final result leaned towards the televote favoured songs anyway, with Serbia and Moldova finishing ahead of Greece and Portugal, so one could say the people’s vote prevailed in the end. I still feel like the juries got it spot on this year with no major “Norway 2019” robberies, even though some songs were slightly overrated or underrated.
From what I've seen of how Italians talk about San Remo, and my good Italian friend in particular - they see that show as really "classy". They also care more about San Remo than Eurovision. Spain's performance could be seen as "not classy" - summed up by my mum with her clanger of a line "why does she want to show the world her clitoris?" 🤦.
Never forget that Festival di Sanremo (one word) is what the Eurovision is modelled after so it's obviously much more important for us than ESC.
As for the Spanish entry it's just not in our taste and, in fact, it did poorly in our charts too compared to other Countries.
Well, Poland 2014 cannot certainly be classified as "classy" either and Italy gave it 8 points, being the 2nd highest mark they received (only after Germany's 10 points). Firstly, I think what heavily influenced the Italian audience in this case was one of its commentators' rude words. He said Chanel was a copy of Jlo and that we should have chosen Varry Brava instead of her. That is disrespectful and clearly affects people's thoughts. Secondly, I think the Italian jury voted strategically (not the first time). They didn't give points to any potential contender, except for the UK.
And then, there's plenty of italian people coming with the excuse "it's not our taste". Really? And do you think that is a valid explanation as to why Italy was the only country out of the 39 to not give any points to Spain? Stop trying to justify a dirty game with poor arguments like "it's just a matter of taste" or "there was no bad intention, it just happened"
Also, if we follow that logic, Italy didn't give any points to Spain in 2012 or 2014 with "classy" and "more-appropiate-to-their-taste" entries. So what did happen then?
@@xander2609 omg Spanish fans are not only rude an not classy, they are not very bright either!
They keep repeating this idiocy about one Italian commentator of ESC, Malgioglio, who didn't like Chanel and in their limited minds was thus able to influence an entire Country.
Malgioglio's act is to trash people, all of them: about Moldova he said that if he met them on a train ride he would jump out of the window for how terrible was their song and yet their song is still in our charts, Chanel's isn't.
Commentators of every Country do that, often far worst than Malgioglio.
He trashed everyone except Sam Ryder and only because he found him attractive.
Furthermore the first to trash Chanel were you Spaniards, calling her unrepeatable insults, because you wanted Tanxugueiras to win Benidorm.
Every Country plays their game: Spain 12 points to Azerbaijan? ahaha
Anyway you can't even win ESC Junior and you won't win ESC for a very long time!
(I agree about Poland 2014 though)
@@HeyThreshold Firstly, no, that's not what all the commentators do. And every commentator who thinks of themselves as professional shouldn't make those comments. Literally, the postcards are not even a minute long. Why bother to trash the contestants in such a short time, when you could talk about their life achievements or their countries' history at Eurovision? The spirit of the contest is creating bonds within Europe, so mocking the artists doesn't particularly align with that message. You can make humour in many different ways.
Secondly, yeah, Chanel received a lot of criticism at the beginning from many toxic spanish eurovision fans and that's really sad. But you shouldn't take that as a way to talk about ALL the Spanish Eurovision fans, including me. Because the funny thing is that I voted for Chanel at BenidormFest. In fact, I got a lot of toxic replies by Tanxugueiras' fans every time I always defended Chanel. Some toxic spanish fans from Twitter don't represent all of us
Thirdly, it's funny how you talk about as "not only rude an not classy" and "not very bright either". And yet, you proceed to write a disrespectful reply, justifying your commentator's disgraceful comments and dark humour, and filled with the same toxicity you complain about.
Also, you didn't even answer my final question. Italy hasn't voted Spain in any of the 3 times we've come in the top 10 in the last decade; but you did vote for us when we came 25th in 2013 and 22nd in 2016. Am I supposed to take that seriously and think that's normal?
I don't know how much it will take us to win. But at least, I can say Spain has appreciated Italy whenever they've sent good entries; we have given you 12 points on many occasions, regardless of the genre of your song (I'm also sure that Spain is among the top 5 countries that has voted Italy the most so it's even funnier and more ironic that you say we are "not very bright"), and our commentators have never disrespected Italy's representatives. I'm afraid Italy cannot say the same when it comes to appreciating Spain's best entries.
Btw, our jury wasn't the only one to give 12 points to Azerbaijan. And it also awarded points to Italy, Sweden, UK, Serbia and Greece; all of whom were fierce rivals for us. The Italian jury, not only did not vote for Spain, but they didn't even vote for Sweden either (now it's when I remember Italy didn't vote for Loreen either in 2012). So the situation is clearly not the same
@@xander2609 A lot of commentators do that, one again check Graham Norton or others (there are videos on here that report the most savage comments).
Second of all Malgioglio was just a commentator, there are 2 presenters with him that talk properly about the artists, during the postcards, and always contradict whatever Malgioglio says.
If you are so up in your head to not being able to take comedy, it's your problem: we make humour our way, thank you very much!
Oh and also look up what "dark humour" is please.
This is not about you and who you voted but it stands that most of the Spanish fans criticized her badly, much, much worst than "discount J-Lo".
Secondly, of course not all Spanish fans behaved badly but I didn't see a single one, of the good ones, call out the ones who were.
Are you seriously complaining about my reply and you seriously expected to receive our votes when you called us "mafiosos, bastards, shitty" for 2 months?
During JESC your people wrote to a Polish girl that Hitler was right in invading Poland, your people wrote to Ukraine that they might have won ESC but they will lose the war and so on.
Again, this was not all of the Spanish fans but a consistent number and no one called them out.
It was so bad that not only it reached ESC commentators, they all mentioned it, but also the artists.
This is real toxicity, not my reply!
And drop this arrogance to pretend people vote for you: great performance but Chanel's lyric are embarrassing and if you were honest you'd admit it.
They are so bad that they have been called out by some Spanish feminists too.
Anyway you think we don't vote fairly? Stop voting for us by stop pretending you are fair having voted for your "fierce competitors": this year there was no real competition considering Ukraine had an unprecedented 62% odds of winning!
As for the past I didn't even remember you had been in top 10 recently cause I can't remember one single entry that had a lasting impact and if it did it certainly didn't for me.
P.s. Nope, you didn't magically remember we didn't vote for Loreen in 2012: you either read it on Twitter or from another commenter who posted it here before you!
I can’t remember what years but France and Armenia have definitely voted for each other before which I believe is due to a large Armenian diaspora in France so I think it is “expected” rather than weird such as the results from Greece but I’m not from either so I’m happy to be corrected. I love stats and Eurovision so great work this season and I’m glad I found your channel 👍
I think it was almost inevitable that we would get countries with a televote of 10 or less because we had Ukraine getting an unprecedented amount of televotes and also we had in the final jury baits that barely got any televotes in the semis.
I think if they made a rule about needing a certain minimum from jury/televote in the semis to get to the final, you'll be able to avoid a lot of unpleasantness (e.g. you need at least 15 from the jury and at least 15 in the televote, just as an arbitrary base)
That is a good idea. Personally I would at least like a minimum from the televote, so we don't get zero vote songs from the televote in the final.
i think if it happened a lot, maybe. But honestly this is the first time we've had a 0 TV qualifier.
I'm just so happy that Romania didn't flop with the televoting, 53 points is really good, considering they performed in the death slot.
I still wish France, Estonia and Poland got more points, they were my favorites in the final.
Portugal defying the odds and getting top ten even though they were performing third was also nice.
This year, I surprisingly agreed more with the juries than the televoters, apart from Romania, even though most of the time it's the other way around.
Your point with Greece's jury votes not being exchanged is mute... we dont know how Azerbaijan and Poland juries would have actually voted. Greece might have been much higher in their rankings. Greece also gave relatively high points to Romania so people are theorizing that Greece was part of the pack albeit in the wrong semi final.
yep agreed. i just tweeted about this based on some of the other replies
i am greek and we 100% voted for wacky songs to get top 5 lmao
@@efthymiosn3381 which is why you gave Poland, a song long in the top 10 of the odds 10pts....
Regarding some strange juries' voting that you write off as non suspicious because there is no reciprocity for me that is not necessarily the case.
One Country might bribe just few jurors in several Countries' juries, enough to get a decent placement without looking too evident (say like this year "6 Countries fiasco") and this even without the knowledge of the ESC organization of said Country.
Jurors are supposed to be secret but does anyone seriously think they all are?
yes, you are absolutely correct. the only issue with that is that it is much harder to prove. There is definitely some suspicions with that, especially with AZE, but unless a juror comes out and says that that is what happened, we can only guess
Ok Italian here 🇮🇹 I will give an attempt to interpret the Spain vote
Let’s take the jury as an example: you’ve already seen other comments about Italy creating extra competition with France and Spain for every little petty thing, and I think that might have influenced the Italian jury score towards Spain.
You also might have heard about us preferring classier acts, but if that’s the case we wouldn’t have scored Moldova that high in the televote. Don’t get me wrong I love Trenuletul and I think it’s musically intricate but it’s not created to be “classy”.
I believe that the real reason the Italian televoters didn’t vibe with Chanel is because we tend to look at the “female bop dancer” genre as trashy music by default. The general Italian televote will not care if she can hit the notes flawlessly while dancing, they will think “huh another female pop dancer, why are there so many? Boring, this is not original, this is supposed to be the festival of the best of the best right?”
Meanwhile I believe that the Italian jury didn’t vibe with it because the Italian music industry is full of people who appreciate lyrical depth in songs, that’s why they gave points to Serbia and gave 12 to Netherlands, so it was obvious at least for me that the jury wouldn’t give a lot of love to Chanel, nor Subwoolfer for that matter
Btw I like your Sanremo videos, don’t worry we don’t hate you😍
Haha thank you Danclam 😂
ok that makes sense. I remember there being many Italians commenting on my Sanremo 2020 video who didnt think that Electra should be taken seriously when she entered (although i just saw that her first album wascalledd Twerking queen 😂)
@@ESCTom AHA good example! Elettra Lamborghini’s genre and her music hasn’t always been traditionally massively present in Sanremo, so her being there and competing was a huge deal. However, nobody expected her to do well because of this, I think that’s why you had those comments
You know how a lot of artists tend to send a song to Sanremo which is a more toned-down version of their artistry to appeal to wider masses? That’s what she did, as you see from her first album’s title, Sanremo 2020 Elettra was pretty tame:)
@@danieleclementi3310 (dont tell anyone but i loved that song 😂)
I love these kinds of video´s! Thanks for keeping the children fed!
I wonder how high can an entry place without getting a single 12, because look at Portugal this year, 5th with jury and 9th overall with not one country giving it 12.
Also another thing that I think is just wholesome is how Iceland got 8 of their 10 televote points from Ukraine. I can totally see why, this is exactly the kind of comforting song we need right now + the girls are so supportive and outspoken about what is happening.
I noticed that Ukraine tended to go with more calm songs in their televote
yea i noticed that too. Iceland's song really was a love/peace song but done in a subtle classy way without shouting LOVE LOVE PEACE PEACE.
Technically a song could win with no 12 points, if it consistently gets 10s and there's a lot of variations on who gets the 12s. That would be a fun Eurovision to watch if it ever happened (not sure if it already has?).
Azerbaijan only got three 12s when they won in 2011
@@ESCTom Norway was second without a single set of 12 in 1996.
Your Eurovision channel has become one of my favourite channels.
Thank you Tony 🙏🏻 😊
Jury votes.. meh. Who's listening to "We're not the saaame"? (While I still like listening to Fulenn).
And the problem with TeleVoting is the price difference of voting. I think it's 0.19 euro to vote in Uk, while in Estonia its 1.6 euro. Here its 1.19 euro. So I can't afford to vote left and right just for the sake of correct ranking. (I would've also voted for France if it was cheaper).
So bye bye correct ranking..
yea i dont really know what the solution for that is. i guess it does favour people with more disposable income differently in each country
I was really happy for Monika, I wanted left side of the scoreboard for her but ig the juries thought otherwise…
Maybe if you only had to pay to be able to vote, and then you can vote freely for all participating countries, then yes, you'd see more appropriate results (in televoting).
I feel like they do a bit of experimentation with stuff like that in JESC to test it out first
Im at my most uncomfortable when the juries really mark down something that is popular in the televote, which then severely impacts the final outcome (Keiino for one, although not in the case of Poland 2016 - i really detested that song 😂). And ive often thought that it should be perhaps 33%/66% Jury/Tele, however, as always Tom, your sage words about the balancing effect of the juries swung me round 😉
lol well youre currently 1-1 right now so that's not too bad 😅
Ive heard the 33/66% or 40/60 etc idea floated around before. If i end up doing that jury video, ill explain when they cant do that for various practical/mathematical reasons
I was thinking Ukraine may or may or not do well with the Juries because of they didnt want to be accused of the sympathy Vote.
I saw alot of people voting for other acts because they didnt want a sympathy Win (Which is probably why Malta and others didn't give them 12 televote points)
I think jury would have varied very much by country. Like I would expect places like Iceland, Lithuania, Poland to be very sympathetic and also enjoy the sound a lot as well.
How is Moldova's tele vote not one of the big things to note
I’d love to see your video in defence of the jury. They’re not perfect (I mean they severely underrated Poland but oh well
I'M STILL WATCHING!! :)
haha thanks Leo 😂🥰
Greece was clearly part of the cheater's club. They gave 12 points to Azerbaijan, 10 points to Poland, 6 to Moldova and 7 to Romania. We don't know the real points of Montenegro, Poland, San Marino, Georgia, Romania and Azerbaijan for the final so we cannot prove that this cheating was taking place from both directions, but this pretty much suggests that. 🙂
P.S. I just noticed that you say that below as well.
yea they were very lucky to get away without being mentioned I think
Spaniards on social media confirm to be the worst fans ever and I suggest people find out the disgusting shit they created at the last Junior Eurovision and no, it's not a minority considering that sparked a huge controversy.
We started receiving crap from them months in advance, when Italy was favourite, and than they directed it towards Ukraine.
Beforehand they attacked French fans because they decided that Alvan had copied Tanxugueiras.
I don't know what they complain about considering their jury gave zero votes to Måneskin (while their televote gave us 10 points proving their jury voted strategically) last year and we didn't say anything.
The fact that both the Italian jury and the televote gave Chanel zero points confirms that it's a song that is not in our taste: juries can vote strategically, an entire population listen to what they like.
Further confirmation: Chanel never peaked in any Italian charts unlike The Netherlands (our 12 jury points), Moldova or Ukraine.
We gave The Netherlands 12 points we got 0\0 from them but we ain't complaining.
Besides the first one who heavily and badly, with unrepeatable offences, criticized Chanel when she won the Benidorm Festival were the very same Spaniards who are acclaiming her today.
Indeed. There was even a movement that wanted that Portugal would take tanxugueiras as their representative for Eurovision, because Galicia and North of Portugal are so culturally close. But i mean, what arrogance… first, actually considering that Portugal would do that, assuming that the Tanxugueiras song would inevitably be better than whatever Portugal would send, and turning their back to selected song and then all of the sudden, looks like the whole world owes them something
And they didn’t even give a single point to Portugal, while the televote gave 6 i believe
@@Janecas exactly, just extreme arrogance mixed with ignorance and intolerance.
They nit-pick on what others do completely ignoring what they do which is often hundreds of times worst.
@JLO Lomelino Exactly as if Chanel's song is this masterpiece that everyone must adore.The performance was good but the lyrics are terrible and they were heavily criticised in Spain too... until she arrived third! 🤦🏻♂️
I can proudly say that even tho my country(slovenia) gave 0 points to sam in televote, my only vote went to uk exactly :)
Best phrase: jury should be a little more sober 🤣
Realistically the only way Ukraine's televote record can be beaten is if a bunch of other countries get added. (Or, if there are changes made to the televote score somehow).
I think I heard that the current cap is 44 countries. Not sure about that though. In theory more countries could be added, such as former competitors etc., if there are more than 2 semis. But the current very impressive record will probably stand for a very long time.
I think people are still interested because we don't even know yet in which country the next competition will be held. Normally at this time we would be speculating about the host city. Now we are speculating about host country AND city.
After Ukraine won, Russia started bombing the town that the winners were from. So we can assume that the Russians will bomb the contest if it is held in Ukraine.
I follow the invasion every day. The orcs are still lobbing missiles towards Kyiv and Lviv occasionally. Even though their aim is abysmal, they can still hit an arena if they try enough times.
This is a major reason why I think another country will host it next year, even if the conflict ends tomorrow, security will have a massive presence and will be on high alert and it might be too much of a logistical headache for the EBU
@@KylieWilson Yes, I agree. Even if the war ends soon, Russia can't be trusted to not send missiles into Ukraine afterwards. The rest of Europe would have to guarantee Ukraine's air space security. Europe has said no to that so far.
Love this as always, especially the jury stuff. But why is Iraq coloured in on the UK televote map 😂😂😂
It’s an honorary Australia 🇮🇶 🤝 🇦🇺
43 and 35 for Estonia and Lithuania?? I just personally don’t understand how songs like those two get below 50 but Portugal got like 170 points in the jury.
There's one song every year that has a huge disparity between jury and tele votes. But this year there were *many* such songs.
It's not "only" Ukraine that is under existential threat. Any country near Russia is under threat. People in countries further away tend to forget this.
That is true, when the war started we had entire families ready to leave and still do now. Everyone fears of an unexpected outcome, especially considering Russia's interest for ex-soviet countries.
@@mihaelamelnic213 Yes. Those of us geographically close to Russia know that we are in danger. Some countries further away are not taking the threat seriously.
About Portugal voting noticed something interesting: they received jury points from 29 of the 39 voting countries (excluding Portugal), compared to only 9 countries by the televote. From the countries that gave points both from the jury and televote, the majority of the points come from the jury. But Italy and Spain, both gave televote points to Portugal and not a single point by the juries, which goes against the vote trend of Portugal this year. So the song did better with the public in Italy and Spain than with the juries.
Embers were actually last with nearly everyone. 22nd in the Irish televote or something
they were last with 4 juries and 14 televotes
@@ESCTom Only 13 juries had it higher than 20th. In televote the only higher than 20th was 14th in Malta. It was different for Jendrik, as he was consistently 13-19 in most televotes. I think the conclusion is that Embers is one of the most universally disliked songs in this competition, and nearly all countries agreed that it had to be in the bottom.
I completely understand and respect your clear and excellent analysis of why the juries provides balance.
But in spite of all that, I still object to the jury being included at all. Fair or not if the show is not for the viewers then who is it for and that being the case, the public and only the public should get the outcome they want to see. That is my opinion.
Juries = Technicality
Public = Popularity
@@cstiles1579 Popularity is all that should matter. A song may be technically wonderful but if people don't like it it isn't a, success.
@@jamied674 It would never work because of block voting and it would screw the 1st half of the running order even more than it does already.
@@cstiles1579 I acceept that no system is perfect, but one which gives 50% of the weight of the votes to a small handful of people, often completely trouncing what the public want, is an absolute insult to the voting public, basically telling them they do not have any taste and that their opinion is inferior. That is intolerable.
The reasons you give in support of the jury like mitigating block voting (which while it exists has never been proven to be enough to sway a win) , the disadvanage to those in the first half of the draw (well that's just luck really) will never be enough to persuade me that juries have a legitimate place in the competition.
@@jamied674 The EBU should increase and become stricter on the selection of juries (like how in the Olympics the IOC has tried to clamp down on corrupt juries on gymnastics & figure skating competitions). I like the direction of the contest where it’s distancing itself from the very camp acts of the 2000s and moving to a more accessible music. This will actually expand the interest of the contest to a wider audience and we’re starting to see Eurovision songs top the charts and have longevity outside of the contest. If done correctly, the juries can aid that, if they really are music professionals who know the pulse of pop trends (ie radio Dj’s, music columnists, producers, music critics, music talent management agents, songwriters, even pop stars themselves).
This is a song contest. Diaspora votes are damaging as it will lead to more predictability & devalues the level
of songs. A lot of the fans are so emotionally attached to songs due to both logical & silly reasons and the casual audience still vote for camp or gimmick songs. Many times over the years the juries have prevented songs from tanking when it’s performed well and more often than not the scores balance out in the end and we get a great winner.
The thing I don't get... If the running order is so key, how is the current system justified? Wouldn't it be fair if it went back to totally random as it used to be?
I mean all that said, I don't even know why some placements are worse than others. How Is it so influental to sway someone to vote for a different song they'd otherwise vote for? And anyway, I always thought most votes come from hardcore fans who vote for songs they already know and love anyway.
So many questions! I've only recently heard of this phenomenon and can't quite wrap my mind around it
Honestly I felt pretty influenced by the running order this year when I voted! I came into the final with a clear picture in my mind of my favourite songs and the ones which I wanted to vote for, but then Estonia (who I had barely even given a thought to before) absolutely blew me away and I thought they were the best possible choice for the final song of the show, so I ended up majorly surprising myself by voting for Estonia. I also almost forgot to vote for Czech Republic in the end, when I’d already come into the final being sure I’d vote for them, so I can definitely see how the running order can make a big difference, and especially more so with casual viewers too.
i mean for those first few spots, showrunners usually put songs that did somewhat well in the semi. good enough to keep the audience entertained but not quite good enough to challenge for the win. it's a self-fulfilling prophecy, really
Great analysis, Tom, and shoutout to that guy Eurovisionario too! I know how I'd love to spend my time if I had more of it ;-)
Of course there are the disappointments of countries that I really liked not doing terribly well in the televote (Australia, Czechia, Portugal, Netherlands) but I agree with your explanation.
UK coming first with the juries, well I must say I find that slightly overrated.
Also, in the end I must say that I think the idea of Europe getting behind Ukraine is quite heartwarming, and the fact that juries really seem to have this idea of "we're just judging an entry by its merits and will not let emotions play any role", like the Dutch jury who was the first to announce its votes and not gave Ukraine any points, does seem a bit cold.
Remarks on the outliers in the jury vote, like Greece in this case: I remember very well that in the 90s when there was no televote, there were always countries whose juries voted really weirdly. Like Malta was always totally wacky: I remember them giving 10 to Luxembourg in 1993 and 12 to Slovakia in 1994.
In more recent years, I remember Portugal and Bulgaria snubbing each other in 2017, while literally getting points from every single other jury. Talk about ignoring you main competition!
thanks Leendert. Btw i wrote you a long reply to the last video but it didnt send and i didnt have the soul energy to rewrite it 😭
UK coming first wasnt too much of a surprise. Me and a few others predicted it before the event. It really does tick all the criteria that the jury are told to look for, so for once the UK approach of check boxes actually worked for once.
Yea im actually very happy with the Ukraine result as well. theyve been EXCEPTIONAL since they joined the competition, and I want them to hold the record for most wins. I really like the song and the music video is quite easily the best music video of any entry this year by 100 miles imo
the 2017 thing from Bulgaria and POrtugal was 100% rigged. They knew exactly what they were doing.
@@ESCTom haha of course you're only making me curious of what you wrote in your reply, so looking forward to you finding your soul energy 😁
I am from Serbia and that zero points from ex yu countries are just hilarious and true because every Balkan meme page on Instagram posted things like: If UK wins, I will spill shit on my TV, lol. And after show I was speaking with my friends and absolutely no one loves UK here. 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Well, Serbia is a very backward country. Makes sense.
Ok I am not Italian but I think Italy not giving points to Spain is down to this rivalry that the Italians unilaterally created with France and Spain (which is not really recicropated), it started in soccer (what else) and is clearly spreading to other spheres. I am still not fully converted to the church of Chanel but I mean Italy’s jury vote was kind of…..”strange”.
PS…rumours are sayibg Robbie Williams is kind of interested in representing the UK next year…..will take that with a million pinches of salt. A few yeats back I read an article saying that Morissey was representing the UK, thay clearly never happened (unfortunately).
ah ok, so basically due to a kind of rivalry? I wonder if that style of performance is not really appreciated as well. like i never see anything like that in San Remo for example.
I heard about Robbie Williams, i dont mind that if hes got a decent song. but theyve already gone down the route of specifically picking "big names" in 2011-13 and it just didnt work. Emphasis needs to be on the song over the artist with the UK
Oh please god do NOT let that rumour about R.Williams be true. I cannot stand the man or his music 😭.
Italian juries are just weird though... Every year they give points to the most random entry and they were the only country who didn't give Loreen a single point in 2012.
@@80PercentScottish Same.........a huge 'No' to Robbie. Although this rumour has been swirling around since he mentioned that he'd represent the UK at Eurovision some 8 or 9 years ago, I couldn't see it happening then. His career was too big for it to backfire on him. Now, 8 or 9 years later, he's in a position where his career has been barren for some time. The X Factor was the only big thing he's done in the last 5 or 6 years but he's not troubled the charts world wide for at least 10 years now so he's now desperate to revive his career. And after seeing what it's done for Sam Ryders career and seeing that it isn't the 'death rattle' everyone though Eurovision would be, he's now champing at the bit.
My real concern would be this. Vocally ges not strong enough anymore. Yes, he's a showman, but he's not anywhere near as relevant either. There's a reason why Brian May and the rest of Queen held a meeting with Robbie some 10 or so years ago, but decided that he wouldn't be the new front man for Queen, even though Robbie was super keen.
We need someone fresh, or someone that's established who is currently making waves, that has a good voice that can carry a great song. Sam Ryder ticked all those boxes this year, so we shouldn't just give someone an opportunity just because they once had a big career. We've already done that with the Bonnie Tyler's, Blue's and the Englebert Humperdinks.
Despite the issues we had with the jury vote scandal this year I'm still all for juries in Eurovision and don't understand people who want them gone. It's not a perfect system and there are definitely some screws that can be tightened but like you said, it's miles better than the mess we had in the 2000:s when it was 100% televote. Moldova the second best song this year according to televoters? Yeah, no.
I totally agree. I'm so happy to see this comment. Every time I see someone saying we should get rid of the juries I get really mad and think to myself "It's either:
1. They are from a country which always benefits from the televoting because of neighbouring and diaspora votes, so they're biased.
2. Or they clearly don't know what they're talking about, because they haven't had a look at the votings from the 00's (until 2008)".
Could you link me this place where you find all the placings for jury and televote in particular countries pls
the guy is called @Eurovisionario on twitter
@@ESCTom this Spaniard is a legend cheers 👍
I'm still salty about the Greek jury.
what about the jury points from Belgium to the Netherlands (0) versus the televote points from Belgium to the Netherlands (10)
It was a Walloon (French-speaking) jury, so I’m not surprised. Whereas the whole of Belgium can vote in the televote.
weren't the Polish and Azerbaijani jury aggregated? Only the EBU knows what Greece got from them ;-)
oh yes, thats a very good point!!!! Ah ok so interesting to think what POland actually gave them? Were those "actual" result released? I know that some countries said where their original 12 had gone
@@ESCTom Only Romania released their full top 10 in the final. Romania gave Moldova 12, Greece 10, Poland 8, Netherlands 7, Azerbaijan 6. 3 to Spain, nothing to UK/Sweden/Ukraine.
eeeeeeep ok so then clearly the same goes for Azerbaijan as well then when I was making that point. maybe they also actually did give points to Greece as well
oh fuck yea Greece put 3 of the cheating countries in their top 4. EEP!
yep, and the only 'cheat' we know the points from has Greece in second place...
6:27 wait why is Iraq included in the map?
its representing australia
Ahhh ok that’s what I thought, thanks!
It's wrong, 0 (zero) can heal
6:25 why is Iraq colored orange? 😂
probably supposed to be Australia? (my lucky guess)
Indeed, Iraq is an honorary Australia 😊🦘
En mi humilde opinión,,,Italia no dio puntos a España,,,por envidia, creo que sabían que Chanel les haría sombra,,y aparte creo que nos tienen manía, en todos los ámbitos,, en deporte pasa igual. Aparte de la falta absoluta de respeto que tuvo el presentador de la televisión italiana mientras Chanel actuaba,,,incitando a la audiencia a que no votarán por España, e insultando a Chanel .