An Anabaptist View of Salvation - David Bercot - Ep. 078
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ก.ค. 2024
- How does an Anabaptist view salvation differently than other Christians? Why is it important to have a correct view of salvation? In the episode, David Bercot describes the Anabaptist view of salvation and compares it to the Protestant and Roman Catholic views. David shows the effect that a Christian’s view of salvation has on many parts of life.
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This is the 78th episode of Anabaptist Perspectives, a podcast, blog, and TH-cam channel that examines various aspects of conservative Anabaptist life and thought.
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This video ends with an incredible and powerful statement. To repeat it, David Bercot said, "If I really appreciate that He did this [dying on the cross] for me, and He suffered for me, and yet, I'm not willing to be inconvenienced [in my obedience] for Him, then yeah, I must not really love Him."
May we all fully embrace all aspects of salvation: both grace and obedience, both what Jesus did and what we do.
wow youre here. your channel brought me to david bercot and my interest in the ante-nicenes :)
@@missionsbibleministry That's fantastic! It was David Bercot who kindled my passion for the Pre-Nicene Christians. :)
@@PostApostolicChurchhe should have kindled your interest to follow Jesus more.
@@jupiterinaries6150 ????
Wow~!!! This is the BEST conversation on salvation I have EVER listened to! (Love from a Catholic).
Thanks, Amber! This is high praise. We were delighted that David was willing and able to share this conversation with us :-)
You are saved by grace through faith alone, but it never comes alone. Works is an after effect. The manifestation of salvation working in your life.
Why do you add the word 'alone?'
Alone is false teaching. Show me one verse that says we are saved by faith 'alone.'
Roman's 4:5 worketh not, but believes. 😂 yea bible does teach salvation is believing in Jesus and not automatically someone's gonna do works .
The NT does not say in Ephesians 2:8-9 you are saved (present tense) but rather you are those who have been saved (rescued) (perfect tense).
Hebrews 2:14-15 Jesus set us free from the devil who had authority from God and held us captive.
@@GaryDiscipleEphesians 2:8, John 5:24, Romans 11:6
Absolutely. Ephesians 2:8-9 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith-and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God- 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.
Luther understood that man can never be perfect before GOD. Man is flawed, and always needs GOD.
Thank you. This is a very helpful talk for me, as an ex Jehovah's Witness.
Thanks Fred. We're glad you found it to be helpful.
If I follow your teaching my salvation is up to me not the Lord work for me my faith is in him not me so if I sin he is faithful and just to forgive me my sins don’t teach history for instruction read instruction for teaching of the Christian life
This was an excellent presentation
I've been following David Bercot for a few years now and im glad we both came to almost same conclusions. Me and my church are now with the freewill baptists (the historical general baptists). In terms of soteriology, the ante-nicenes are identical to historical Arminians if you really study Arminius, individual & corporate election (salvation IN Christ). I have been sharing all of your videos with some Arminians in our locality as well who seem to be dedicated to learning what historical Christianity really looked like. I personally have high regard to historical Anabaptists and consider them the true "reformers" and the origin of the Baptists that began with Helwys and Smyth.
Thank you for this comment. We’re glad to hear that these videos have been useful to you and your friends. Keep seeking for the truth!
THANK YOU!!!
David Bercot played a huge role in pointing me to the early church fathers. They then pointed me to something else and it wasn't Anabaptism
What was it?
@@AmberFaganello let's just say I realized he wasn't honest in an edit to his book. I saw priests, councils, masses, infant baptism, Real Presence, apostolic succession and all were deemed essential.
@@jackdaw6359 Tertullian thought that great caution was due when the Church was baptizing infants because it was asking parents to make a covenant on behalf of the child that they had no way of assuring would be carried out, and then they were the ones responsible for having made it. It is that lack of voluntarism in covenant, combined with the multiple examples of voluntary adult conversions in the New Testament (silent with respect to the children of Christians), that is behind Anabaptist conviction. The modern Catholic practices, both Western and Eastern, defy the early writings as well, for example granting to those councils an authority and role of progressive revelation without the Apostles present--something the ante-Nicene Church did not grant as they did in Acts 15. This Nicene and post-Nicene development was then used to permit everything from importing Gnostic traditions, per Irenaeus, like icons and images, to the hybridizing of the Church and the State rather than the distinctions between them taught and maintained in the ante-Nicene period. Apostolic succession became much more about a paper trail (and sometimes one with missing proofs) than about a serious spiritual heritage (2 Tim. 2:2) as the Apostles intended, another departure from both the Scripture's and Church's original meaning and practice. And why does the Mass not have the same simplicity or even the same meanings in the last millennia-and-a-half as in _The Didache_ , in Justin Martyr's description, or that of Hippolytus? There are certainly plenty of Anabaptists who accept the Presence of Christ at the Table (otherwise being guilty of the Body and Blood of the Lord for partaking unworthily in 1 Cor. 11 makes no sense), but not in the context of Rome's many innovations post-Nicene. Even the Eastern Church has had heartburn with those. That is why the earliest Christian writings have never led me to the highly modified Eastern or Western Rites. There are no churches faithful to the ante-Nicene teachings of the Scriptures today. So, rather than multiple, guaranteed compromises with the world in the manner of the church's life, I have looked rather to the simplicity and rigor of faithful community that once characterized the Waldensians and Bernese brethren in Switzerland. Justin Martyr could easily have been describing their assemblies instead. It is a major undertaking to try to help Anabaptists go back from their own Protestant / Evangelical influences and modifications to those early foundations, but in my view it is asking the impossible from any who begin with a defense of their churches' historic right to its innovations. "No other teaching will have the right of being received as apostolic than that which is at the present day proclaimed in the churches of apostolic foundation." (Tertullian, acknowledging this even from the perspective of a Montanist, or near to becoming one)
@@ReluctantPost Tertullian does not reject it but he does discourage it. I know. Tertullian also fell into the heresy of Montanism and thought prophecy could continue. I didn't cherry church fathers. I tried to see a consensus. Tertullian also does not stand against but rather wants a later baptism in order to wipe out more sin. (Baptismal regeneration) He didn't believe people could repent after they had committed certain sins. Higher authorities than he disagreed. Tertullian taught that people should delay baptism. All people should. He also believed that some sins could thereafter not be forgiven
@@ReluctantPost Tell me when the New Testament canon was completed and tell me a bit about the Arian crisis in the church? So much more. Tell me about Irenaeus views on bishops.
Mr. Bercot is one of my favorites! Spoken with truth and without “mud-slinging”. He handled Catholic theology so well. I was raised Catholic.
Thanks, Lynnette. We appreciate David too.
Very thoughtfully and truthfully stated.
So rightly and very good teaching. Think if every Church will talk like this. Wonderful. Praise to God !
Thanks, David.
Maravilloso!!! Muchas gracias. Necesitamos más en español!!!!
Thank you! We wish that we could publish resources in Spanish, but we are not able to do so at the present.
I’m independent fundamental baptist that follow what you call Luther’s theology and have always been taught that because what Jesus did for us on the cross we should live our lives to please him. Having read all of the New Testament I don’t see a Jesus that preaches by grace and works. I do believe if you’ve chosen to walk away from God and turn you back on it you may have never been born again from the get go.
You "don't see a Jesus that teaches by Grace and works"? 🤔
John chapter 15 clearly teaches the importance of works, or 'bearing fruit,' & He says that this is how we 'PROVE to be His disciples...& also says what happens to those who don't produce fruit.
He says that He "APPOINTED US to BEAR FRUIT!"
(John 15.16)
In other places, our Lord makes it clear that "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments"
(John 14.15, 22-24;
Paul says that THE WHOLE PURPOSE of us being 'saved by grace through faith,' is to 'produce works'
(Ephesians 2.8-10)
Paul writes in Titus that many "Profess to know God, but in works DENY Him" (Titus 1.16)
Paul warns about the importance of "maintaining good works"
(Titus 2.7; 3.1, 8, 14; 1 Timothy 6.18, etc.)
John says "BY THIS we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. The one who says 'I have come to know Him,' and does NOT keep His commandments, IS A LIAR, and the truth is not in him" (1 John 2.3-4)
"Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may SEE YOUR GOOD WORKS and glorify your father who is in heaven" (Matthew 5.16)
I would suggest you go back & RE-READ the New Testament, but through a different set of lenses brother.
Agape❤️✝️
“Luther’s View” is simply the Gospel view. Many people do not know that Luther and the rest of the reformers tied works to salvation in this way:
Salvation + Faith = Works
A false Gospel corrupts this to:
Faith + Works = Salvation
Salvation is an irreversible act of God worked in the believer by which God regenerates us (John 3:3) and causes us to have faith in His Son’s atoning work on the cross unto salvation. This implantation of a new nature is evident because it produces good works as fruit of what has already taken place.
This is how Paul phrases it in Ephesians 2:8-10 “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.”
I love hearing this perspective, gives me food for thought! Thank you!
I’d be curious to know more specifically which “evangelicals” he has in mind, honestly. He mentions Lutherans, but the vast majority of them are liberals in basic, basic theology (i.e., in sexuality, abortion, etc). As an evangelical protestant (non-denominational, Bible church), I don’t believe you can live however you want or get divorced etc. I guess my question would be, what in his life is different than the Christians I know? Do i need to wear a blue shirt?
It's our pleasure!
What also sets the Anabaptists apart from other religions is the practice of the Sermon on The Mount - the beatitudes.
It seems to me that salvation by faith alone, by grace alone, in Christ alone is clearly taught by Paul and indeed other writers of the NT. I don't think Luther was 'overreacting' to some deep personal sin when he declared his beliefs - I think he was taking God's word at His word. Have a look at Ephesians 2:8-9. Seems pretty clear to me.
Amen. This guy ends up adding obedience to faith as a condition of salvation which is the exact opposite that Paul stated.
Ever heard Martin Luther's opinion of the Book of James? He basically asserted it misrepresented the gospel. That's a pretty severe statement to make about God's word which we are told not to add or take away from.
@@allthingsthroughhim3856 I think Luther is burning in hell for other heresies he held, but he did not say he believed James wasn’t inspired by God. He affirmed James with the infallible, inerrent word of God. He simply thought that Galatians and Romans were better in the sense of explicating the deep things of salvation. To simple people, James was absolutely fine. I don’t even agree with that take by Luther, but this critique is old dumb and dishonest.
@@thomasthellamas9886 I think highly of the epistle of James,” Luther said, “and regard it as valuable although it was rejected in early days. It does not expound human doctrines, but lays much emphasis on God’s law. … I do not hold it to be of apostolic authorship.” - He also called it an epistle of straw. How much more needs to be said? Whose critique is really dishonest?
At a certain point he had to accept James because.. Well, it IS CANON. Had been Canon. Philosophically trying to throw it out is absurd, and would be a glaring example of his own self-worship over what the Bible really says. So... Can't be too overt. End of the day, he just spoke to the spirit of his time as a figurehead. It is what it is.
😢 Sadly, as most 'Hyper-Grace' people do, you quote Ephesians 2.8-9 OUT OF CONTEXT--Conveniently leaving out the VERY NEXT VERSE...verse 10, which speaks of the WORKS part of the equation & WHY we were saved to begin with. Paul talks about how important WORKS are in many places, but people tend to gloss o er this, because it doesn't really fit their 'Hyper-Grace' theology, which in effect teaches that after you have been saved through belief in the Gospel, it doesn't really matter HOW you live. The idea goes something like this, "since works could never save me, No lack of works could ever UNSAVE me." Thus, after you have been saved, there is nothing you can do in the flesh that can ever UNSAVE you.
Oh the 'logic' of this world! 🙄
This is nothing more than rehashed GNOSTICISM!
This heresy swept through the Early Church like wildfire.
They believed that since the Fletcher's inherently evil, nothing you do in the flesh matters. It is so inherently evil, that they denied that Yeshua/Jesus ever CAME in the flesh, therefore never RESURRECTED in the flesh, & therefore will not be RETURNING in the flesh!
But more on point here, John 15 ALONE destroys your thinking, because our Lord is very clear, & He says that our FRUIT is how we 'PROVE to be His disciples." Interestingly, when Paul talks about the "FRUIT of the Spirit" in Galatians 5.22-23, the Greek word here for 'FRUIT' has the meaning of 'RESULT' 'EFFECT' or 'EVIDENCE.' so what Paul is really saying here is that if you really have the Holy Spirit dwelling inside of you, the FRUIT will be evident to all those around you.
The apostle John said the same thing when he says, "BY THIS we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments. The one who says, 'I have come to KNOW Him,' and does NOT keep his commandments, is a LIAR, and the truth is not in him; but whoever keeps his word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. BY THIS we know that we are IN Him:
The one who says he abides in Him" (1 John 2.3-6). And again, "BY THIS the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of god, nor the one who does not love his brother. For this is the message which you have heard from the beginning, that we should love one another...We know that we have passed out of death and into life, because we love the brethren" (1 John 3.10-11, 14).
One more point that needs to be mentioned here, when we look at the 'Heros of Faith' in Hebrews 11, it will be obvious to all who read that the genuineness of their FAITH is always PREDICATED or AFFIRMED by what they DID! Likewise, "God so LOVED, He GAVE..."
His love was DEMONSTRATED by ACTION...Not empty words!
"He DEMONSTRATED His love towards us..." HOW?
"In this: While we were yet sinners, Christ died for us" [ACTION]
(Romans 5.8). John echos this, saying, "Little children, let us not love with word or with tongue [alone], but in DEED and in TRUTH." (1 John 3.18)
In closing, while our works do not SAVE us, they DO testify as to whether or not the Holy Spirit is truly dwelling within us--which, of course, is needed for salvation. God, Yeshua/Jesus & the apostles never validates a 'salvation' that is devoid of FRUIT that compliments it, even as James says, "Faith without works is DEAD, being alone" (James 2.17, 26)...or, as I like to say, Where there is FIRE, there will be LIGHT & HEAT!
Agape❤, Grace & Peace ✝️
Thank you for this video. I have picked up Davids book The Kingdom That Turned the World Upside Down. I highly recommend it to all. Thanks George
It was a delight to have David speak with us for this interview. His books have been influential on me too.
I just ordered it today, thank you for recommending it
I appreciate Bercot and this channel. However, I have been in several kinds of evangelical churches for over 30 years until now. Most evangelical churches do error in much of this but there is a small group, generally Reformed Baptists, (Paul Washer, Tim Conway, etc) actually teach that true salvation and repentance are shown in our works and our life. Absolute obedience and holiness are God's requirements and loving Christ is obeying His commands in John 15. May true change occur among the evangelical church in understanding and practice.
Thank you for all your videos!
Thank you for the comment. It's good to hear of evangelical leaders who teach the true Gosepel.
Thank you for pointing this out; I've noticed the same thing. This group would disagree with David Bercot on theological technicalities, but as far as the practical outworking in the Christian life, it's basically the same thing.
And of course they wouldn't follow the historic faith on a literal application of the teachings of Jesus, the head covering commandment, etc.
@@landonadams8122 I am a calvinist pacifist, I have been in a Presbyteriean church and I can tell you, I am covering my head despite my church not teaching this. I also dress modest and believe divorce is sin and remarriage while a former spouse is alive, is adultery according to Jesus. Just because the evanghelical churches do not teach on head covering or are loose on divorce teachings, or other things of christian practice, it does not mean that all members of these churches are mistaken in practice, there are true believers in all kinds of churches. Wherever there are Bibles available in a church or the Scriptures are being read, wherever baptism and communion is practiced, you can almost bet there are some sheep of Christ suffering in those congregations. The Lord is very merciful.
Thanks for sharing a small piece of your journey and about your experience in a Presbyterian church, @christianmama.
🧐 There us one VERY IMPORTANT thing you left out here brother David, concerning those who sin AFTER being saved by grace through faith, & having our PAST SINS forgiven...Namely, that we now have a High Priest in the heavens that we can approach with all boldness & confidence, to receive grace & mercy
(Hebrews 4.14-16; 10.19)
Agape❤, Grace & Peace ✝️
Thank you for this input, Beau.
Do you have a list of scriptures to study on the topic of salvation? I know he mentioned that there are two extremes and both tend to ignore the parts of scripture that don't fit that extreme. I'm studying this topic for myself, this video was INCREDIBLY helpful!
Romans Galatians and The Gospels
Acts 1631
Could we have a session on re baptism from the anabaptist perspective.?
I’m learning slowly and he is an excellent teacher!! Thanks for your conversation with him.
Will you have him again soon?
Can you please ask him what he thinks of after Jesus comes and what psalms says about the s living here in earth in perfection with all the animals? Thanks
Hi Cgh Rios. We also enjoy David's occasional appearances on the podcast and have learned much from him. We'd like to have him back on and expect to some day. However, looking at our schedule, I'm pretty confident that it wouldn't be before the end of 2023.
We have a soul. It can be seen as a black hole in your head. You build the strength of your soul by giving out the "spirit of God". God instantly refills all which you give. Judgment is how strong your soul is when your container dies. If you lie, you are not giving out "truth", your turbine stops, and you cut off the inflow of the holy spirit. If you understand what I am saying, then live for the life of your soul. If you think your ego is who you are then you are deceiving yourself. It is a tool, just like our body is.
I appreciate how this video details how man has changed the way to salvation over the last 2000 years. Man has certainly messed up and muddied the waters of God’s clear Gospel message. No matter what we believe or where in our Christian walk we are, we can all agree the final authority on salvation comes from The Word Of God. Not anything from today or writings of a thousand years ago. Only the inspired Word read by the leading of the Holy Spirit explains salvation. I don’t like controversy, but it saddens me that the teaching of man are the primary source of this doctrine and not the Bible.
Still listening (former Anabaptist, now Catholic) but I just wanted to add some nuance to the 1:45-2 min mark regarding Vatican II. The Catholic Church didn't change its view, but it did add clarity and nuance. I won't go on about it here, but will instead point to a good article called "What 'No Salvation Outside the Church' Means" by Jim Blackburn on Catholic Answers for anyone interested in a more accurate understanding.
Thank you, Amy. We want to be honest when speaking about others, so I appreciate you recommending this article to provide nuance.
I find this presentation interesting. The terms "faith" and " grace" are used a lot and it is assumed people all understand these concepts. I would argue they don't, hence the disagreements. Define what faith looks like where the rubber meets the road and the role grace plays in this lifestyle. And perhaps I should explain where I am coming from. Many would suggest - and they are correct up to a point- that faith is living out the commandments as directed in the scriptures. As per Hebrews 11 we see people obeying directives by God that were not in the written commandments. It is a life living in obedience to the leading of the Holy Spirit. The written Word forms a basis upon which the Holy Spirit works. My understanding.
This is where I wish Scripture was more clear. David talked about the relationship and it was great, but then he went into the "trampling the Son of God underfoot" and being cut off the vine. We need to know WHEN that happens. He essentially said we won't find out until the judgment. For people like me who's terrified I lost my salvation, that's not a good answer. So despair every day, like I already do, until the day I die? Wondering if I'm a child anymore? Ive begged God repeatedly just to give me peace, literally crying tears on several occasions. Never an answer. How is that a hard request for Him to answer? A loving father would NEVER do that to a son in despair. So maybe I did sin it away?
The fact that you are concerned about the matter indicates that you have not sinned against the Holy Spirit. Evidently you have a very sensitive spirit, a great blessing! Most likely you need to reach out in faith to trust Christ. Your constant worry indicates a lack of that kind of faith. Without faith it is impossible to please God. Feelings matter less than a firm faith in Christ and the provisions He has made for you. Eventually, faith in Christ and His provisions will result in the assurance you so much desire. Focus on active faith, active trust, and active obedience to the Living Christ.
Hi, could you please tell me what is the anabaptist view of election and predestination?
I'm looking on the internet and not finding.
Hi Fernando. This is a good question that deserves a longer response than I can give here. However, most Anabaptists you'd meet would probably believe in synergism, that this is an interplay between human freedom and divine grace, and free will, God calls all to repent and those who choose to respond may do so. Hopefully this helps.
@@AnabaptistPerspectives Thank you for taking some time to answer me.
Which Anabaptist groups still recognize baptism as the faith appeal to God for forgiveness of sin like the early church unanimously taught? What is the name of that group called if I were to search for them and find them?
Sadly most current anabaptist church is Mennonite or Amish an are extremists an cultish
I am having a hard time to recognize which evangelicals he is talking about. All the evenagelicals I know would say saved by faith means you can just live as you like. We preach salvation by faith alone unto good works.
Heb10:26-30
You pointed it out. Works are a sidebar--something that, even though God created you to do, don't play a role in your saving relationship itself, let alone fill the purpose of your supposedly-regenerated life. The combination of _sola fide_ (not stated in the Bible while _non ex fide tantum_ is), the substitutionary doctrine of atonement, and perseverance of the saints (where held), all act in practical terms as permission slips for whatever life one wishes to lead instead. The only caveat is that it can't be so obviously evil that it gets you socially alienated, particularly if that means from the church as well. I grew up and was schooled in that system and what I watched those concepts do to the lifestyles lived by friends and family over decades of time (as in his divorce example) is tragic. "You will know them by their fruits."
We are saved by Grace and Grace alone.
How we obtain grace is by receiving the faith of Christ through repentance.
Works is the obedience to all of Gods commandments.
Just my thoughts....
I have questions.
Why do so many Christians not keep the Sabbath commandment?
Who authorised the worship on Sunday?
It is by grace alone, but not by faith alone. (James 2:24) Salvation has always been conditional upon yielding self--not academically or theoretically, but so that there is empty space cleared out and filled with Someone else, actually knowing the Father through Jesus (John 17:3) by the power of the Holy Spirit, which is inevitably transformative. That is why there are "ifs" in the faithful saying that all Christians are taught (right?) about whether that has happened. "This is a faithful saying:
For if we died with Him,
We shall also live with Him.
If we endure,
We shall also reign with Him.
If we deny Him,
He also will deny us.
If we are faithless,
He remains faithful;
He cannot deny Himself."
"Remind them of these things, charging them before the Lord not to strive about words to no profit, to the ruin of the hearers. Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. But shun profane and idle babblings, for they will increase to more ungodliness. And their message will spread like cancer." (2 Tim. 2)
The Sabbath command is not restated in the New Testament. That does not mean that Jewish Christians should not keep it, but the Apostles and elders did not hold that the sabbaths were something to be expected of Gentiles (see Acts 15, esp. vss. 23-29; Colossians 2:8-17).
@@ReluctantPost wrong it’s entirely by Grace through faith otherwise your headed for hell.
@@davidchupp4460 I stated that salvation is indeed by grace alone, and that is certainly through faith. It is just not through faith _alone,_ as the Scripture itself contradicts that explicitly. That is a fundamental error of the Reformers, and why Martin Luther especially detested the book of James. When someone thinks so highly of themselves and their opinions, and that of their fellows in a particular place and time, that they are willing to judge the Scriptures, it is guaranteed that their spirituality is already in deep trouble even before the fruits demonstrate it. Systematic theology may turn out to be one of the greatest tools that Satan ever had at his disposal.
@@ReluctantPost really? And who exactly was James writing to? Are you one of the 12 tribes scattered abroad and if you aren’t why exactly are you applying it to yourself? Maybe it’s time to question your own spirituality since you clearly don’t have spiritual understanding of scripture.
@@davidchupp4460 Yes, unfortunately. Luther declared the Book of James to be "a book of straw" with "nothing of the Gospel about it."
What I explained is the perspective of the earliest common Christian writers, from the first century onward. I do not know of any reason to subscribe to any of the many theologies that have been developed with their differences since then.
As Paul also explains, "But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, who 'will render to each one according to his deeds': eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness-indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For there is no partiality with God. For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified; for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel." (Rom. 2)
I agree with the Anabaptist biblical beliefs. I have come across them myself reading the Bible (KJV) with the Holy Spirit guidance. And I wasn't even raised an Anabaptist. What I am trying to say we don't need to be Anabaptist to believe the beliefs Anabaptist believe because that is clearly in scripture. Being apart of a specific Christian movement doesn't save us. Only Jesus and complete submission to Him and His Word/commands with the Help/guidance of the Holy Spirit (John 3:16-17, John 14:6, John 1:12 KJV). So I prefer to just refer to myself as a Bible believing Christian and a child of God. May God continue to bless this ministry and thanks for this video. I enjoyed the information shared. 🙏🏼👍🏼
It's good to hear this small piece of your journey. Keep pursing faithfulness in the community God has given to you.
@@AnabaptistPerspectives Yes, with God's help I will & Thank you 🙏🏼
What did david mean by not perfect:?
So in short baptism is the start of being born again and holding to a Christ centered life brings you unto salvation at the end of your life, the resurection.
How much "works" is necessary to reach the threshold to be considered saved?
Keep Gods commandments
I love David Bercot & all he's doing! ❤️. It is so easy to agree with him, because I see it in the new testament too!
Referencing the question at 17:37.
It's not playing ping-pong. 🏓
I think 1 John 1:7-9 is relevant to receiving forgiveness. We should practice confessing our sins to be healed & receive forgiveness. (James 5:16 & 1 Jn 1:9)
But 1 Jn 1:7 is important.
It says, '. . . if we walk in the light, as he is in the light . . . the blood of Jesus, his son, purifies us from all sin.'
We can have confidence in our salvation. We're cleansed as we obey his commandments.
The preaching of the cross procures eternal life to all who would trust solely in its atoning work (Eph 1:13).
18:01 What happens when we do sin? Do we automatically loose our salvation when we sin willfully..
-Does a decent job but doesn't cover assurance in a clear way ie Rm8:16 like wesley did.
-Didnt distinguish the difference of justification & and sanctification; Lutherans/calvinists combined both!
Thank you for this video. Not all evangelical churches believe in Calvinism, Romanian evangelical churches are more a form of Arminianism but with a lot of eastern orthodox influence. developing differently from mainstream evangelicals because of 50 years of communism.
Thank you, Daniel. We appreciate the correction.
Look up, on TH-cam......"I Am the True Vine" (John 15: 1-6) Grace to You
Mr. Bercot is a wealth of information about the early church, but he would do well to study the views of the reformers, Luther and Calvin, and those who came after them such as Bunyan, Owens, Edwards, Spurgeon, Ravenhill, etc.
It was and has always been the generally received belief of the Church that works are tied to salvation. They are tied in such a way that they will prove our state of being born again on the Day of Judgment (Matt 25, etc.) Calvin and Luther believed this.
However, the distinction is that good works are the fruit of justification, not the root cause of it. The “parable of the sower” and other parables makes this abundantly clear. Salvation is an act of God by which Christ’s Spirit dwells inside of us, which changes our desires and causes us to do good works. As John 15 says, we cannot bear any fruit unless we abide in Christ.
False salvation is the idea that one must perform enough works for God to give us justification. This would contradict salvation being a “free gift not of works so that no man may boast”.
Thank you for this input, Durius.
@@AnabaptistPerspectives Just a helpful reminder not to bear false witness against your brothers without understanding their viewpoint first. James 3 says that teachers will incur the stricter judgment. God bless you.
Understood.
The comment about Martin Luther having some sort of huge secret sin is uncalled for. From what I know, historians have not found proof of this claim including Roland H. Banton, one of the leading Luther biographers. Biblical protestants don’t adhere to Luther’s teaching on justification by virtue of the fact that he taught it, but rather because it is found in scripture.
I would not group all Protestants together any more than believing all anabaptist believe the same. I talk to numerous anabaptist that worry more about head coverings than their slander and gossiping. Obedience is from the heart and a love for your Savior the Lord Jesus Christ.
Thank you for this nudge, Larry.
Just wondering if you don't allow your views and interpretations to be biblically questioned or challenged? Or why did you delete and remove my comment?
I don’t remember deleting a comment, Charlie. Would you mind recapping what your comment was about? Thanks!
Okay it's on there again now.
@@AnabaptistPerspectives it's on there now again. thanks
This is also the Church of Christ View, about salvation, and about divorce, and especially divorce and remarriage. We are saved by faith through Grace, and we are created to do good works which our Father has chosen for us in advance. The Born Again experience occurs in baptism, as we believe, repent, and confess our faith in Christ Jesus. Then as Jesus said, we are required to persevere to the end, to remain faithful, and bezr fruit and if we sin according to First John 1:9, we confess our sins and he's faithful and just to forgive us and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. I often wonder why David Bercot does not recognize all these correct teachings in the Churches of Christ which also strongly claims to not be Protestant or Evangelical or Roman Catholic, and tend to closely follow the early Christians.. The entire restoration movement which gave birth to the Churches of Christ was about having an obedient love Faith relationship with Jesus Christ, and a high View of the importance of the church as the body of Christ and trying to restore that in our times.
Question. I am new to anabaptism. I love it. However, I am divorced and remarried. My first husband, married me while unbeknowst me, had a pregnant wife in another country. The entire marriage was a sham. We divorced, even though legally, we weren't technically married due to his bigamy. I went on to marry a very Godly man. I am unsure how the Mennonites will view my current marriage.
Hi Melissa. This is a big question, but I'm not sure TH-cam comments are the most conducive to talk about it. Would you be interested in emailing us at info@anabaptistperspectives.org to discuss this further?
@@AnabaptistPerspectives I will. Thank you!
There is no true faith without works, the epistle of James makes this crystal clear. Jesus in his teaching in Mathew ch. 7v16 states "ye shall know them by their fruits. In v.17" every good tree bringeth forth good fruit" v. 18 "a good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit"
Does the fruit make the tree good? No, the fruit is determined by the character of the tree.
What then makes the tree good? Answer - Nothing less than the righteousness of Christ who has by his shed blood paid in full the price of redemption. Romans ch.3v22 - "even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe". V. 24 - being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.
The determining factor as to whether you are a good tree or a corrupt tree (Matthew ch. 7v.18) is whether your faith is placed in your own works for salvation, or in Jesus Christ alone. The value of your faith is where it is placed. If faith is placed in Jesus Christ who has been revealed by the Holy Spirit to the heart, it is impossible not to bring forth fruit.
The reason that professors do not bring forth fruit is because they have confessed Lord with the mouth/intellect, and never acknowledged Christ, Lord, from the heart.
All men will be judged by their works on the day of judgement as this will determine the reality of their faith.
Wood hay and stubble are the works of the flesh. Outward conformity is no guarantee of inward transformity. This is the real danger! Are my works, the works of the flesh, appealing to the onlooker though they may be, or are they the work of the Spirit of God begotten in the heart.
Therein lies the difference between life and death, between self righteousness and the righteousness of Christ.
Focus on a genuine work of the Holy Spirit in the heart - faith in Christ being the outcome, and the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus will not fail to bring forth the fruit of righteousness.
Let us remember that the letter of the law tendeth only to bondage, but the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus brings liberty.
Is our gospel a message of bondage or liberty? The fruit will tell - love, joy, peace, long-suffering gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Yeah, read the whole books teaching... Do not hinge your salvation for eternity on lopsided doctrine.... If fewer are doing it it's more likely to be right. Jesus said the way is narrow and FEW find it!
There is no true faith without works, the epistle of James makes this crystal clear.
Jesus in his teaching in Mathew ch. 7v.16 states "ye shall know them by their fruits". He continues in v. 17 "every good tree bringeth forth good fruit" - v. 18 "a good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit"
Does the fruit make the tree good? No! the fruit is determined by the character of the tree.
What then makes the tree good? Answer - nothing less than the righteousness of Jesus Christ who by his shed blood paid in full the price of redemption. Romans ch. 3v.22 - "even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe", v.24 - "being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus".
The determining factor as to whether you are a good tree or a corrupt tree (mat. 7v.18) is whether your faith is placed in your own works for salvation, or in Jesus Christ alone.
The value of your faith is where it is placed. If your faith is placed in Jesus Christ, revealed by the Holy Spirit to your heart, it impossible not to bring forth fruit. The reason that professors do not bring forth fruit is because they have confessed Lord with their mouth/intellect and never acknowledged Christ as Lord, from the heart.
All men will be judged by their works on the day of judgment as this will determine the reality of their faith.
Wood, hay, and stubble are the works of the natural man. Outward conformity is no guarantee of inward transformity - here is the real danger!
Are my works merely the efforts of the natural man, though to the onlooker, appealing they may be, or are they the fruit of the Spirit, a work begotten in the heart?
Here lies the difference between life and death, between self righteousness and God's righteousness.
Let us remember that the letter of the law tendeth only to bondage, but the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus brings liberty.
Is our gospel a message of bondage or liberty. In the power of man or the power of God?
I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth. Rom. Ch. 1v.16
.
You must be born again in water and spirit to be saved you need to put your faith in him once you are saved there is no reason you wouldn’t follow his commands I don’t see how evangelicals don’t say this yes faith without works is dead we will display his faith by our obedience but our salvation doesn’t come from that obedience I think you have seen a lot of lookwarm Christian’s that aren’t truly saved and don’t live it out but I don’t understand how you are saying anything different from most other denominations
The narrow way is by totally trusting in Jesus and him alone and on nothing I do. Trusting your works will take you straight to hell.
Something about the *true* gospel should cause the hearer to ask the question posed in Romans 6:1...
_"Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?"_
The -good- news presented in this video would not elicit any such query.
We are saved by faith alone without works the early church believed the same thing
Clement of rome a student of Paul the apostle
“Similarly we also, who by His will have been called in Christ Jesus, 👉are not justified by ourselves👈, or our own wisdom or understanding or godliness, 👉nor by such deeds 👈as we have done in holiness of heart, but 👉by that faith t👈hrough which Almighty God has justified all men since the beginning of time. Glory be to Him, forever and ever, Amen.”- St. Clement of Rome (? - ~101 AD) (Letter to the Corinthians, par. 32)
Polycorp of smyrna 69-155AD
( epistle to the Philippines Chapter 1)
"the true elect of God and our Lord; and because the strong root of your faith, spoken of in days [ long gone by, endures even until now, and brings forth fruit to our Lord Jesus Christ, who for our sins suffered even unto death, [but] whom God raised from the dead, having loosed the bands of the grave. In whom, though now you see Him not, you believe, and believing, rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory; into which joy many desire to enter,👉 knowing that by grace you are saved, not of works,👈 [but by the will of God through Jesus Christ."
Machetes
(Epistle to diognotus Chapter 9)
"By what other one was it possible that we, the wicked and ungodly, could be justified, than by the only Son of God? O sweet exchange! O unsearchable operation! O benefits surpassing all expectation! That the wickedness of many should be hid in a single righteous One, and that the righteousness of One should justify many transgressors! Having therefore convinced us in the former time that our nature was unable to attain to life, and having now revealed the Saviour who is able to save even those things which it was [formerly] impossible to save, by both these facts He desired to lead us to trust 👈in His kindness, to esteem Him our Nourisher, Father, Teacher,"
Barnabas of Alexandria 70-130AD
(Epistle of barnabas chapter 11)
"Blessed are they who,
placing their trust👈 in the cross, have gone down into the water; for, says He, they shall receive
their reward in due time: then He declares, I will recompense them. But now He saith,1601 “Their
leaves shall not fade.” This meaneth, that every word which proceedeth out of your mouth 👈in
faith 👈and love shall tend to bring conversion and hope to many. Again, another prophet saith,
“And the land of Jacob shall be extolled above every land.”1602 This meaneth the vessel of His
Spirit, which He shall glorify. Further, what says He? “And there was a river flowing on the
right, and from it arose beautiful trees; and whosoever shall eat of them shall live for ever.”1603
This meaneth,1604 that we indeed descend into the water full of sins and defilement, but come up,
bearing fruit in our heart, having the fear [of God] and trust in Jesus in our spirit. “And
whosoever shall eat of these shall live for ever,” This meaneth: Whosoever, He declares, shall
hear thee speaking, and believe👈, shall live for ever."
Irenues of lyons
Human beings👉 can be saved👈 from the ancient wound of the serpent in 👉no other way👈 than by👉 believing 👈in him who, when he was raised up from the earth on the tree ( cross) of martyrdom in the likeness of sinful flesh, drew all things to himself and gave life to the dead.”- St. Irenaeus (130 - 202 AD
Against heresies book 4, chapter 2 ,8)
Irenues of lyons (130-202AD )
(Demonstration of apostolic preaching , Chapter 61 )"For those who were before exceeding wicked, so that they left no work of ungodliness undone, learning👈 of Christ and believing on Him, have at 👉once believed 👈and been changed, so as to leave no excellency of righteousness undone; so great is the transformation which faith👈 in Christ the Son of God effects for those who believe on Him"
Hippolytus of rome 170-230
Exgeltical works fragments
"For this reason, then, the angel says to Daniel, Seal the words, for the vision is until the end of the time. But to Christ it was not said seal, but loose the things bound of old; in order that, by His grace, we might know the will of the Father, and believe upon Him whom He has sent for the salvation of men"
Hippolytus of rome
( on the Antichrist Chapter 3)
" He turns again to His own true way. And by those who live by faith He is easily found; and to those of pure eye and holy heart, who desire to knock at the door, He opens immediately. For He casts away none of His servants as unworthy of the divine mysteries. He does not esteem the rich man more highly than the poor, nor does He despise the poor man for his poverty. He does not disdain the barbarian, nor does He set the eunuch aside as no man. He does not hate the female on account of the woman's act of disobedience in the beginning, nor does He reject the male on account of the man's transgression. But He seeks all, and desires to save all, wishing to make all the children of God, and calling all the saints unto one perfect man. For there is also one Son (or Servant) of God, by whom we too, receiving the regeneration through the Holy Spirit,"
Hippolytus of rome 170-230 AD
(On the Antichrist Chapter 6 )
"The Saviour gathered together the sheep that were scattered abroad, and he in like manner will bring together a people that is scattered abroad. The Lord gave a seal to those who believed on Him, and he will give one like manner.
John chrysostom
“They said that he who adhered to faith alone was cursed; but he, Paul, shows that he who adhered to faith alone is blessed.”- (347 - 407 AD) (Homily on Galatians 3)
Peter of Alexandria
Epistle , canon 5,
" which, as we have learned, is within us;for the word which we believe is near us, in our mouth, and in our heart; which they, being put in remembrance of, will learn to confess with their mouths that Jesus is the Christ; believing in their heart that God has raised him from the dead, and being as those who hear, that with the heart man believes unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. "
St. Epiphanios (310 -403 AD) (Against Heresies 3.1,2 )While I was sick in the flesh, the Savior was sent to me in the likeness of sinful flesh, fulfilling such a dispensation, to redeem me from slavery, from corruption, and from death. And He became to me righteousness, and sanctification, and salvation. Righteousness, by setting me free from sin through faith in Him. Sanctification, in having set me free through water and the Spirit and His word. And salvation, His blood being the ransom of the true Lamb, having given Himself on my behalf.”While I was sick in the flesh, the Savior was sent to me in the likeness of sinful flesh, fulfilling such a dispensation, to redeem me from slavery, from corruption, and from death. And He became to me righteousness, and sanctification, and salvation. Righteousness, by setting me free from sin through faith in Him. Sanctification, in having set me free through water and the Spirit and His word. And salvation, His blood being the ransom of the true Lamb, having given Himself on my behalf.”
Absolutely Bercot is way off. His understanding of scripture is exactly how the Amish, which are filled with unsaved people, believe. He doesn’t rightly divide the word of Truth. Christ was speaking to Israel in his earthly ministry. Yes Luther was 100% correct that you’d only need Romans, which is by far the most important book of the Bible, to be saved. You don’t find salvation in the gospel of the kingdom offered and then rejected by Israel.
that college is extremely expensive....why....
🙏🙏🙏👌👌👌🙋♂️ PERFECT 😍
Thank you, David. We we’re glad to have Bercot on to share with us.
It’s just too bad how all the churches I have attended, for several years, that have good standards are so clickish and make me feel like I can not be myself but I have to walk on eggshells and I never feel as though I fit in. I’m speaking of Pentecostal Holiness and Amish Mennonite for certainty. I also taxied the Amish for several years and have seen how closed up a group they are as well and seem to be busy chasing the $$$. I’m now in an independent Baptist setting, and don’t like OSAS doctrine and loose standards but at least I feel welcomed…🤷🏻♂️.
Danny, we're sorry to hear how challenging it has been to find a church where you belong. Keep pursuing a life of faithfulness in whichever church community God has given to you.
Salvation is by faith alone. The gentleman in the video says that Martin Luther taught that "hey, salvation is by faith. You can live how you want as long as you believe in Christ." That's not actually correct. Martin Luther said, "Justification is by faith alone, but not by a faith that is alone." it is clear, not from Luther's teachings but from the Bible, that salvation IS only by faith through the Grace of Christ, but if you have believed, you'll love Christ and consequently you'll follow His teachings. That's why Jesus said, "You shall love the LORD, your God, with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind." This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: "You shall love your neighbour as yourself." "On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets." (Matt.22:37-40)
And similarly, John taught in his letters, specifically 1 John. James and Paul also said that salvation is by faith, but that faith, if it is real, has to be accompanied by actions that come from that faith.
But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? (Jas.2:20-22)
For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness." just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works: (Rom.4:2,6)
When he was imputed as righteous? Before of after Abraham obeyed to God's request of sacrificing his only son?
It was before, and before his circumcision, the Bible says; Then He brought him outside and said, "Look now toward heaven, and count the stars if you are able to number them." And He said to him, "So shall your descendants be." And he believed in the LORD, and He accounted it to him for righteousness. (Gen.15:5-6)
So see Abraham believed and after acted according to his faith.
Justification is by faith but faith is confirmed by obedience.
Oops should have watched the rest of the video😀
What about carnal Christian’s?
The faith in Jesus saves us from sin but we need to live Jesus in our life’s each time I sin I need to confess this to him and have forgiveness over life I find that the sin that is in me often come to the front and I need to seek forgiveness this can be daily devours is not wrong it’s the remarrying several times our marriage is taken with an with a promise t.I the Lord so to brake this is showing self will
I think this shows a fundamental misunderstanding of truly evangelical churches. We prioritize godly living because works are the fruit of faith. If you grow in faith then you will be growing in godly living. We seek to not sin, and we repent when we do, because we understand the sacrifice of Christ on the cross. Repentance is the mark of the Christian life and one who grows in faith will see their sin more clearly. Evangelical churches are not the conglomerate that you present them as. We do not tale divorce lightly, nor homosexuality, nor other issues. You are totally saved and all your sins are cast as far as the east is from the west. As faith grows, you naturally hate sin more. You trivialize the Solas and again seem to fundamentally misunderstand what is believed
Timothy, thank you for offering this pushback. We don't want to be sloppy and unfair with our generalizations and lament where we have been.
@Timothyfairchild
My problem is when u give ur life to Jesus Christ, & ur sins r forgiven. But i dnt see if u sin after u come to Christ those sins r forgiven to.
Like OSAS that u cant lose ur salvation. Then why repent after u sin. and ask God to keep forgiving when u do sin again. If all ur future sins r forgiven already.
I mean there's so many warnings to believers if we keep living a certain lifestyle after we come to Christ... for even Paul says even he could be Castaway...
But why ask God to keep forgiving ur sins, if he already future sins r already forgiven?
If the criteria for salvation is based upon what comes "after" salvation and the good works that Christ commands, then by that standard Jehovah's Witnesses are saved and Mormons are saved and any other group who "calls" upon the name of God who follows a life of good works. Works ought to FOLLOW salvation as stated in Ephesians 2:10, "For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them." but works are not a condition of salvation. Eternal life is the FREE GIFT of God in Christ Jesus (Romans 6:23). It is free and it is a gift. If a condition is placed upon a gift it is no longer a gift and it is no longer free. And, regarding disobedience in the life of a believer...we either listen to the word of God and the Holy Spirit or we're setting ourselves up to be disciplined by God (see Hebrews 12:4-11) There are always consequences to sin even in the life of a believer. I do not hold to your form of salvation however, neither do I believe that our forgiveness gives us a license to sin. I fully believe that when I sin it is because I love myself more than I love God. When that happens I need to go to Him, seek His forgiveness and cleansing (1 John 1:9) and deal with my own lack of love for the One who has loved me more than any other. I believe that what you're talking about is sanctification...present tense salvation where we become free from the power of sin in our lives.
salvation, by faith, evidenced by fruits, of Galatians and works, of James...
He used a Biblical example of marriage for a reason of never letting go of a partner. Then he used Biblical divorce as a reason for God letting go of us? 🧐🤔 Eh, I’m thinking He set the standard, and that we should follow.. Aka. He never lets go, neither should we.
Dear Friends, I’d urge you to read and study scriptures for yourself. There are several serious doctrinal errors in the authors books. In the book the ‘Kingdom that turned the World Upside down’
Quote: ‘the sins you commit each day will not be forgiven unless you forgive other people their sins’
(Eph. 4:32 And be ye kind one to another, tender-hearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ’s sake hath forgiven you. Col 3:13 Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye. In this verse it’s clear in which order forgiveness should come. As much as I want to and should forgive others, I want Jesus to forgive me unconditionally.)
Chapter 17 The Jesus Road to Salvation
Quote: “It’s foundational beliefs are the direct teachings of Jesus Himself- not the writings of Paul”
That is a very big misunderstanding of the Bible.
He clearly teaches Replacement Theology.
Quote: ‘If we do not feed the hungry and clothe the poor, we will not see heaven’. In this case how could someone get saved on his deathbed?
(So, at which point will I know that I’ve fed enough hungry people and clothed enough poor that I’ll have the assurance of salvation? These are not just a few comments in his book that are off a bit but rather those are very foundational false teachings whereon most of the book is based.) Matthew 25 is clearly a millennial prophecy and Not about the church.
If Matthew is a book about how to get saved then we’d have to take it all and not pick and choose.
Mt 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. This verse is hard to deal with for the people who believe in replacement theology as this author does. To say that what Paul wrote is of lesser importance than that of the words of Jesus is a great misunderstanding of rightly dividing the Word.
Matthew 6:14-15
For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
It looks like you believe in private interpretation of the Bible, as many Christians do. Martin Luther has gotten so many Christians into trouble with it since he first announced that doctrine in 1518. The author wrote the book you are discussing from understandings that are accountable to the Church in antiquity. Even Luther himself realized that his idea, _sola scriptura_ (Scripture alone), might not go well--that it could just result in "each man going to hell in his own way." (See the last verse of the book of Judges in the Old Testament) Luther thought this could be avoided, however, just by people turning to him and the other Reformers for help rather than to the magisterium of Rome, but then he and Zwingli couldn't agree on some foundational understandings of the Bible, either. I'm sure he never envisioned the countless thousands of denominations, sects, and organizations of all kinds that have since headed in their own directions, nearly all being confident that they are "only teaching the Bible." The Bible itself expects us to contend earnestly for what was taught from the beginning (Jude 3-4), understanding the Church to be "the pillar and ground of the truth." (1 Tim. 3:15)
The teaching in the book "Kingdom that turned the world upside down" quote "the sins you commit each day will not be forgiven unless you forgive other people their sins" is very similar to Matthew 6:14-15 after the Lord's prayer: "For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses." This connection between God the Father forgiving us and us forgiving others is in both Matthew 6:14-15 and in Ephesians 4:32 about forgiving one another even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you. Col 3:13 also mentions this connection in "even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye." God forgiving the Christian, and the Christian forgiving others are connected and cannot be separated.
Also, there is no different teaching between Jesus and the Apostle Paul. With this in mind, that an interpretation of a Pauline book directly contradicts a teaching in the gospels should indicate that the interpretation is probably wrong.
That’s right. David Bercot is messed up in his teachings.I was Amish for 40 plus years and his teachings are almost identical to them. They preach very much a works based salvation and don’t understand that Matthew is for Israel and Paul is our apostle.
@@veritas399 you are living in deception. Jesus teaching in the kingdom program IS different then the gospel of Christ given by revelation to Paul. They clearly teach different things. The church has too long applied things to the body of Christ that was strictly for Israel.
Isn't remarriage the issue, not divorce?
10:10 the early church didn't use violence to take over cities like the early Anabaptists did at Münster because of some misguided apocalyptic vision.
True. The early Anabaptists at Münster were tragically misguided.
Hear Believe Confess Repent Be Baptized, live faithful unto death.
👍🏻
Interesting video... If I may paraphrase in different laguage, it seems you are saying that after you are justified with God through Jesus, you also need to be continually sanctified through Christ-like deeds. The former with out the latter is not enough. Does that seem a fair representation?
The easiest way I have learned to understand it is the Apostle's "faithful saying" in 2 Tim. 2:11-13 which I'm always surprised that Christians often don't know given Paul's approval of it. It begins with "If we have died with Him," and elsewhere Paul said of himself, "I die daily." A profession of Jesus and repentance from self-will and all other alternatives of this world should result in submitting to a new covenant with Him in baptism, "being buried with Him...ris[ing] to walk in newness of life." With the gift of the Holy Spirit as part of that, if we take up our cross daily and follow, dying with Him daily so that the Father's will is alive in us through the Spirit's power, we will reign with Him. "He who endures to the end will be saved." (Mark 13:13) So there is a specific point in time where we _were_ saved, there is another sense in which we _are being saved_ by how He lives in and through us every day, and still another sense in which we _will be saved_ in the future. All three of these bind us to Him in faith, hope, and love. All of this is made possible only by grace, not by anything that anyone has to boast about.
Sovereign Grace and the TULIP doctrine
What about it?
Sir, so basically, you mine as well be a Catholic, since you, as an Anabaptist believe you must continue to repent of every sin until you die. No one, absolutely no one, can ever keep the Law or be sinless until death. I rest on the finished work of Jesus Christ. Sir, the Bible says, over, and over, and over again," Believe, Believe, Believe, Believe, Believe, Believe", in the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shall be saved. Sir, based on your Anabaptist belief, if you have, even 1 sin you forget or didn't repent of, then die, you are going to Hell. Sir, I hope you aren't too offended by my words here. Your obviously a well-spoken, intelligent, man, but I pray that you embrace, only believe in salvation, in believing on Christ Jesus, and His finished work on the cross; Plus nothing, minus nothing.
No, we can not sin and be saved at the same time. The loving and faithful relationship with God is broken at the moment we sin. We are children of God as long as we obey Him and love Him, and not even in rebellion (sin is rebellion and also that is not loving God, because loving God is keeping His commandments , 1John 5 ). Sin leads to the lake of fire according to the Bible, no matter if we previously obeyed the Lord. Those who commit sin are not saved (1 John 3) (Rev. 21:8) (John 8:34) (Rom 6.) (etc....) (etc.....) . The day a Christian commits sin his heart and spiritual identity changed also, and is no longer a Christian (a follower of Christ). He must repent and convert to God again in order to be saved again.
We must obey, love, believe in God in order to enter into His paradise kingdom.
I agree with nearly all you had to say, but one thing I would correct is your statement that God does NOT require perfection. " Be ye perfect, even as your Father in Heaven is perfect." But it's not mans/the worlds idea of perfection, it is God's meaning of perfection. Jesus IS and was and always will be perfect in our Fathers eyes, but he was NOT perfect by mans definition by a long shot. See Luke 7:24-35.
A very Jewish take on it. We just take out the Jesus part and say God where you say Christ :-) But Judaism rejects justification by faith too. Its works + faith but mostly works for us.
Once saved always saved as long as you were actually saved and grew up past having reservations for sin. There were things I noticed people didn't shun in some churches I attended and little children being baptized before they reached the age of accountability. They were being told this once saved always saved nonsense. They thought sexual immorality was alright in a marriage, and I do mean sodomy. There's been a lot of that as well as and I do mean of course divorce.
Menno Simon's was influenced by Luther!
👍
You can sin and not die
Christ died for all of our sins before we were even created. He forgave all of our sins at the cross when he gave his life for us 2000 years ago.
Are you saying we have to dress like Pilgrims?
I’d suggest you change this title. I am saying this in love, but truthfully I stopped listening when the gentleman repeated, “maybe they don’t believe that now, idk.” I didn’t press play to here about someone’s assumption and misinformation about our Catholic brothers. Thank you. Be well. Peace.
Hi David. Thank you for sharing your concern with us. I want to make sure I’m understanding. Are you concerned that our guest inaccurately presented an “Anabaptist View” of salvation, or that he has mischaracterized our Catholic brothers and sisters?
@@AnabaptistPerspectives hello and thank you for question. I tuned in to learn about Anabaptists. I am ignorant to Anabaptists belief. I started listening and found it distasteful for the reasons i mentioned. I’m sure I could have, and should have used my mercy in my assessment.
Thank you for explaining, David. I haven't watched this episode for some time, so I can't talk about specifics of how we represented/misrepresented Catholics. However, I apologize for what we got wrong and are grateful for whatever second chance you're able to give us.
There is no lumped "evangelical" view. The view that he skewers is mainline. Reformed authors (to name one example) clearly emphasize that works are required as vindication at the last judgment.
Thank you for the correction, Jordan.
As I posted a thumbs down, I shall explain why.
I consider David correct in essentially dismissing Luther's core theology; especially those advocating sola fide, sola gratia, which tends to lead people to accept concepts in their head, rather than live in the faith. Actually, Luther is not completely incorrect in stating the gospel is in Romans; although obviously, harmonizing all the NT I consider as essential, because it can be done with diligent study. For instance, Jesus, Paul, James, Peter et al do not present different gospels, once you understand what is required of a person in order to be reconciled to God and then be justified as they continue earnestly in the faith.
Salvation is not a one time confession, but a lifelong walk by the Spirit! Therefore having the Spirit of God is key to obtaining Life.
In a nutshell, a person must DIE to their old man (body of sin) [Rom6:4-6], which is by crucifying their flesh of its affections and lusts [Gal5:24]. This must involve not only confessing to God your prior ways of rebellion/sin/walking in darkness, but forsaking them(!). God remits PAST/OLD sins [Rom3:25/2Pet1:9]....and raises you to a new creation IN the Body of Christ by His Holy Spirit. You have been redeemed by the blood (life) of Christ and it is no longer you who live, but Christ liveth IN you (by the Spirit) [Gal2:20]. Now a believer walking by the Spirit fulfills the righteousness of the law [Rom8:4], seeing that we Love God with all our being and love our neighbor as thyself, which fulfills ALL the law [Gal5:14].
So how is a believer IN the Body of Christ justified during their time still in the world, but not of the world?
Rom1:17b, Gal3:11, Heb10:38 tells us that "the just live by faith". But whom are the 'just' and the 'faith'? We can know....
Gal3:16 "knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law (referring to do's and don'ts of the written mosaic law)...but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by works of the law...."
To be justified, we must OBEY. A further clue that the faith discussed here is NOT our own, but what we OBEY! Romans is bookended by this truth!
Rom1:5 "by whom we have received grace and apostleship, for OBEDIENCE to the FAITH among all nation, for his name"...
Rom16:26 "but now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God (The Father), made known to all nations for the OBEDIENCE of FAITH:".
The Faith here is relating to the Faith of God's Son, Jesus Christ who became the declared righteousness of God [Rom3:25] through his suffering and his own obedience to the Holy spirit that dwelled IN him, even until physical death [Heb5:7-9]. Jesus' righteousness is The FAITH that The One True God, the Father justifies his 'born from above' creatures through!
Gal3:22-24 "but the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by FAITH of Jesus Christ might be GIVEN to them that believe 23 but before FAITH came (because the FAITH is referring to the Seed through the promise given to Abraham)..., we were kept under the law, shut up unto the FAITH which should afterward be revealed 24 wherefore the law was our schoolmaster unto Christ, that we might be JUSTIFIED by FAITH".
Now to the common scriptures that most protestants abuse the meaning of:
Eph2:8-10 "for by grace (God's means of mankinds redemption) are ye saved through FAITH (this is not ours, but the Faith of the Son of God...Gal2:20, 3:16, 3:24)...; and that not of yourselves: the gift of God (yep, by receiving the Spirit after dying to the old man, and being raised to a new creation IN Christ)...9 not of works (not through the law), lest any man boast (as per Rom4:4)...10 for we (the just) are his (The Fathers) workmanship, created in Christ Jesus (IN the body of Christ, the temple of the living God, not made by hands)...unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them"
So yes, David is correct, works are absolutely required as a believer, because this is where James comes in Jas2:17 "even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone".... meaning that the faith we receive is to be OBEYED, so that they that DOETH righteousness (walk by the Faith of the Son of God) are righteous, even as he (Jesus) is righteous [1John3:7]. Therefore, our only walking by the Spirit (by obedience to the faith of the Son of God) is abiding ON the Vine AND producing FRUIT of the Spirit.
Now to my major disagreement with the video, because it was head-shakingly bad!
A new creation IN Christ ONLY should be walking (obeying) the Spirit and therefore should NOT be sinning(!)
1John3:9 "whosoever is born of God doth NOT commit sin; for his seed (God sending the Spirit of the Son sent into our heart (mind), Gal4:6)...remaineth IN him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God".
Now, we have free choice to be a slave either to the flesh or the Spirit, if we are indeed born again, as Paul tells us we are a slave to whom we OBEY [Rom6:16]. Therefore, we are to not succumb to temptations, because as James tells us, they will led to being drawn away of our OWN lust and enticed! [Jas1:12-16]. Sin is a choice we decide to do!
To imply we might sin daily is to be frank, nonsense, and is a standard Protestant view of those who haven't understood that they should have DIED to their former ways of darkness!!
Paul reminds believers several times in his writings alone, to NOT sin, because those that do will NOT inherit the Kingdom! [Rom1:18-32, 1Cor6:9-10, Gal5:19-21, Eph5:5-7, Col3:5, 1Tim1:9-10, 2Tim3:1-10, Rev21:8, 22:15]
Sin is NOT to be taken lightly in the New Covenant. It is NOT like the Old, where there can be frequent offerings for transgressions, and especially for grevious sins!
It couldn't be clearer at:
Heb10:26-29 "for IF (not daily or at ALL!) we sin willfully (give in to temptation)...after we have received knowledge of the truth (born again and have the Spirit), there remaineth NO MORE sacrifice for sins 27 but a certain fearful looking for of judgement and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries 28 he that disposed Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses (yom kippur was only for unintentional sins anyhow!) 29 of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God (because YOU have disobeyed the FAITH, God's means of justifying you!)...and have counted the blood of the covenant (because Jesus gave his physical life for YOU), wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing (a sinner has DEFILED the Temple, not made by hands!)...,and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? (Jesus didn't make you sin, but you chose to defile the work of God's grace, through the Spirit of the Son).
Most of what you said in the video was sound, but the casual attitude to sin, and especially heinous sin is not how a believer walking by the Spirit lives! Repentance from ocassional mishaps is permissable; but not willfull action that results in sinning, knowing that is NOT of FAITH!
Please consider this slack view of sin for a member of the holy and set apart Body of Christ!
God bless you.
Hi Daniel. Thank you for the extensive reply to the message in this episode. We are considering.
The beautiful promise of Christian perfection and the serious call to a life lived in and by The Holy Spirit.
You reminded me of this quote from the early church...
“ I heard, sir, that some teachers maintain that there is no repentance in that which takes place when we descended into the water and received remission of our former sins.” He said to me, “ that was sound doctrine what you heard; for that is really the case. For he who has received remission of sins should not send anymore, but should live in purity...And therefore I say to you, that if anyone is tempted by the devil, and he sins after that great and holy calling in which the Lord has called his people to everlasting life, he has opportunity to repent once. But if he should sin frequently after this, and then repent, to such a man his repentance will have no avail. Hermas year 150.
I’d probably would have been more concerned if I have not heard and read so much of David’s works teaching on this subject- this seems the most “indulgent” I’ve heard him. He may have done it because of comments from others in the past,from evangelicals whom would accuse us ,who, believe serious obedience as a requirement for salvation, that we don’t believe in forgiveness from God, human weakness, or sin from ignorance/error.
Praise God who’s greatest joy is to lead us from ignorance and darkness to holiness and intercession for our brethren.
The Lord bless you
@@leastoftheapostolicfaith4407 As with everything else, the Scripture is not trying to pretend that the realities of life are other than they are. "If we claim we have no sin..." What? We make Him out to be a liar and the truth is not in us! That sounds rather serious, and it comes from the same author, and with a solution. There is a difference between a willing engagement in sin as a lifestyle and failing to hit God's mark. There is no need for the doctrine of confession, and obedience to it, if there is nothing to confess and no need of forgiveness. If it is impossible for the true Christian to sin, Peter the Apostle must not have been one as Paul had to confront him--he hadn't even confessed, obviously. The whole point of excommunication over unrepentant sin is repentance and restoration. The error of Protestants in this should not send us swinging to the other end of the pendulum. Hermas is a dead-on guide to interpretation, as expected--if someone sins frequently and repents over and over, obviously something deeper is wrong and needs to be dealt with.
In studying this years ago when the lordship debate was hot in evangelicalism, I came to the conclusion that Romans 6-8 held some answers regarding discipleship in Christian community. If the description of the "trapped sinner" in Romans 7 is of a believer who DESIRES to obey Christ but is constantly defeated by sin, then the role of the church is to teach this struggling saint his/her IDENTITY in Christ (Rom 6) and the POWER of the Spirit for living a life that pleases the Lord (Rom. 8).
So the church gently and lovingly guides the struggling saint toward the loving face of God. Knowing the love of God personally produces love in response ("we love because He first loved us" 1 Jn). As Jesus said, "If/when you love me, you will keep my commandments (Jn 14-15). LOVE is the MOTIVATOR of obedience, which is why the Second Commandment (love others) is always dependent on the First Commandment (love God). We DO what we truly BELIEVE; we OBEY what/who we truly LOVE. Our actions/fruit are just evidence of who we really are! If a believer is walking in sin/disobedience, then there is faulty belief/thinking and misdirected love. It's also possible/likely that Satan has deceived the believer with lies about his/her identity along lies about God. Let the church pray for the deliverance of this believer and instruct him/her in the truth. But I agree, Daniel, that habitual sin with NO DESIRE to obey Christ is grounds for praying for the person's salvation (2 Cor 13).
I never understood the OP’s contention that there was any “slack” attitude towards sin. Also, changing the Scripture (“in” to “of”) is a very theological and dangerous thing to do. _Sola gracie_ , by grace alone, has always been true since the fall of Adam, even in the Old Testament, as the Law and the sacrifices did not originate with man but were gifts towards reconciliation with the Creator-no one earns or merits their own salvation. _Sola fide_ , however, was a direct contradiction of Scripture and orthodoxy, and Luther knew it. In terms of actual lifestyle, I don’t know of any groups of Christians that take sin, and its reality in human nature-including in the struggle of the redeemed, more seriously than the ones David Bercot is involved with. I have heard other claims, but none demonstrated, healthy, and sustainable.
the conversation is Not really comprehensive, at least for me
Got to say , this isn’t quite right. Protestants do NOT think they can just sin away .. and this guy still has a strong JW strain running through him. High control
As an ex jw I know where he comes from
I think it’s obvious salvation is of faith not works. Paul spent a lot of time defending that
Romans is essential. Very
And it fits with everything Jesus taught
We are saved when adopted. In that moment
Very clearly
Can we lose it ? I think so yes. If you rebel and walk away. Of course
But it’s not about works. Works come But they don’t . Save you
Thanks for the reminder not to paint people and group with a broad brush. Brother David has seen plenty of those attitudes that don't take sin seriously, and those varieties of Protestantism exist. But we don't want to slander Protestant brothers and sisters any more than we want to be saddled with every error made by various Anabaptists.
Unfortunately, a misunderstanding of faith does come through a lot of Protestant thinking about salvation. We fully aggree that salvation is always a gracious gift of God and not something he somehow owes us because of our action. On the other hand the NT does not let us separate putting our faith in Christ from repentance and obedience.
God bless you as you continue to walk the Christian life after leaving the Watchtower institution.
Anabaptist Perspectives thank you
Anabaptist Perspectives agreed
I'm assuming you wouldn't suggest that Romans is more essential than James (as in 2:24)? (I grew up in conservative Evangelical churches and was schooled by them as well, so I am just as much suspicious in the opposite direction. I know what happened to my friends and family in actual outcomes over decades of time.)
Christ came to the Jews, under the law offering the Kingdom which the Jews rejected. The gospel of grace was given to Paul and the meaty teaching for the Church, the body of Christ grace age. It is found in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. To add anything to the finished work of Christ is announced anathema by Paul in Galatians , the book that is teaching salvation by faith, not works. Good works follow salvation, not by law keeping but by being Spirit filled and led. You guys are using mainly the gospels, law teaching, to prove your points. 😮
Jesus said, heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will by no means pass away.....whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the father and the son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine do not receive him into your house nor greet him, for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds.....Jesus words his doctrine, the Gospel of the kingdom of God, is the only Gospel and doctrine that saves....he who rejects me and does not receive my words, has that which judges him, the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day....there is more to the gospel than just believe in death burial and resurrection of Christ. That's just part of the Gospel message. The grace of God is part of the Gospel message it's not the gospel itself.....
This guy is very confused I lived in the anabaptist faith for 54 years glad I'm not part of that anymore 👍
Does not understand dispensationalism at all
Jesus taught in Mark 10
What must I do to have eternal life, Jesus quoted the law
The young man said he had kept all those and then Jesus said go sell all that you have and give to the poor to be perfect why do they ain't about this not teach that?
You have to understand Jesus teaching was in a different dispensation not of Grace but of law
I just figured this guy out. Seems pretty smug and academic not heart felt.
This drives me nuts. You are misrepresenting the conservative protestant/reformed protestant position. Yes, we offer nothing for our salvation. We are depraved and can do nothing good apart from Christ. However, you are completely missing the big part. Without evidence of regeneration, without obedience to the word of God; we aren't actually saved. They absolutely go hand in hand. But, to actually be saved (like the thief on the cross), we can do nothing for salvation. However, that thief was saved. He did not have time to show regeneration. But, those of us that continue to draw breath, must live obedient lifestyles. If not, we were not actually saved. Saying a prayer at one time and living life as you want, is not a reformed or conservative protestant view. It's a highly unbiblical view to believe you don't have to live an obedient life. I should add that this is the view if you hold to Calvinism. However, if you don't hold to Calvinism; it's similar. If you don't follow salvation with obedience-it's a dead faith and it profits you not. Another view is that you could be saved but then loose your salvation if not followed by action. In any of these cases, action in obedience is required.
Thank you for this feedback, Angela.