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UNWELCOMING OTIS LIFT and why the doors won't stay open (M6 Hilton Park)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 พ.ค. 2017
- SEE THE ABANDONED HILTON PARK TOWER HERE:
• Abandoned 1980 - the H...
On the agenda: A lift that would have scared the hell out of me as a kid, a bit of history, an animation of WHY the doors won't open fully and the PARTS that are causing the problem.
I was in Edinburgh for 2 weeks and travelled back end of April 2017. On my way back down I popped into Lancaster Forton services (see Part 1) and now we are at Hilton Park for Part 2.
Both Lancaster and Hilton Park were originally designed by TOP RANK in the 1960s and featured some old Otis lifts.
A little more on the history of Top Rank and these buildings in the video.
Thanks to Rizz Briff and Pete Lomas for the help and information - VERY INTERESTING STUFF and thank you!
On a further note, did you know there are different timers on an Otis which can hold the doors open? - a DOOR HOLD timer and a DOOR RE-OPEN timer, as well as more. The controller on the back is pretty brutal - on the front the relays, and on the back is all the wiring with "clusters" of capacitors and open-form resistors to adjust the timing. I mean - put your hand in the back of one of these cabinets without knowing what you're doing and you are exposing your body to a mix of high voltages. Scary, but I suppose this is 1960s/70s technology but I LOVE IT, as it's very "workoutable".
Hope you enjoy the video.
Matt and Chay
That poor thing looks like wasn't properly serviced for a long time :(
By the look of its poor condition, I believe the lift is rarely used by anyone except probably the building maintenance people. Nice to see lifts are still untouched since you first filmed them.
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@@nanangjuliadi900 good message as what you said really makes you think. Thank you!
@@nanangjuliadi900 gj lu bacok dasar bocil-_
@@nanangjuliadi900 nice
Nice old lift in original condition, but sad to see it beeing so neglected and faulty. It deserves a bit of TLC. The cab design is quite nice with that dark woodgrain panelling. It needs a restoration. I bet there is lack of budget to keep it running. Not to mention finding a young lift engineer that doens't shy away from vintage machinery.
+dykodesigns2yt exactly! Perhaps me and Pete Lomas to the rescue?! This would open up lots of red tape issues!
mrmattandmrchay i was thinking the same thing - anyone with decent electronics knowledge could fix this, but if anything were to go wrong after that; there would be hell to pay. So we have all these regulations which means that vintage lifts aren't worth keeping up.
mrmattandmrchay DO IT!!!
Also how the doors will only open while the door open button is being held is also a standard feature of fire mode in all lifts! Pretty much on an older lift like that fire mode would disconnect the normal timing circuit so the doors will always behave like that when the lift is in fire mode! :)
Im really happy that over the years your intro hasnt changed much
Really don't understand why such and abandoned unsafe building is not just demolished, a new one built, and new lifts installed. Cool video and r.i.p. to that Otis. It will probably die of complaints of the issue.
That's the shyest lift I've ever seen
+Yeet Memes4life Shyest? Not sure about that... i think "dark and scary" would fit better ;)
I took my son in this a few years ago, the doors were just as bad. He got in and the doors shut before I could bump them, he was not impressed.
+Lee Thomas oops!!! Not the best experience I guess ;) I remember when I took Chay into an old Bennie lift when he was about 4 years old when we were at the beach and it was more scarier than I thought. He held up a smile but he wasnt impressed also. This one... (damn cant copy oaste link from app... but search "retake leopold lift chay ramsgate" and you ll see it. It says mrchay in video title
The college that I went to still has quite a bit of these 60s and 70s Otis lifts. Though none of them had a door timer issue this bad, some of them had doors that closed immediately after they completely opened.
Cool, so you mean the college may still have them?
There's still plenty of them left.
I found that behaviour quite humourous! Interesting how it's caused by a capacitor going bad, I would have thought that there would be some sort of switch that would close once the door is fully open, and only then would the door switch direction.
I think if the doors had to reach a switch before it could close again, then this could be a source of failure. If for any reason the switch were to fail or the doors 'couldn't' fully open, then the lift would go out of service. Perhaps some systems do have this but suppose it depends on the manufacturer and design. Food for thought I guess!
The door operator is controlled by Contactor DO/DC on this type of controller, in the energised condition the normally open contacts turn the motor in one direction , when in the de-energised state the normally closed contacts come into operation and reverse the motor and close the doors. The critical relay during the door open/close cycle is NT (nominal timing) . NT has to energised before DO Contactor will operate, this is all conditional on the lift being in the DOOR ZONE. As the car stops after answering a car or landing call NT will energise at the same time it's capacitors CHARGE. The door open + the open dwell time is set by adding or removing capacitors in the NT circuitry. There is also a NT resistor in this circuit for finer tuning of the time delay, most installations had a nominal time of about 8 seconds. Once the doors had fully opened and the cycle was in its dwell stage this could be cut short by operation of the door close button DC (if fitted) in the lift car or insertion of another car call which would operate CK RELAY and short out the capacitors , therefore de-energising NT and the doors will start the close cycle.NT is also kept in its energised state by holding DO button in the car, also by operation of the safety edges or light rays etc. A different timing door timing comes into play when the lift is at a landing with its doors closed and a Landing call button is pressed at that floor , then RO (re-open ) relay energises along with NT and gives different door timings for operational reasons via capacitors and resistor labelled NT1 which you can see in the video.I know this is a long and tedious explanation of the door circuitry but i can assure you it can get more complicated than this when fault finding.
Peter Lomas Wow... I love that you take your time to explain things about old lifts! So do you know how to install an old Lift - like an old Otis Lift, also, out of interest, how many lifts did you install as your time as a lift engineer? Were they difficult to install, and where did your inspiration for lifts come from?
@@MichalM Sorry about the long delay in answering your question, i have only just revisited this video of Matts. I started as an apprentice lift engineer straight from school in 1966 and served a 5 year apprenticeship with the OTIS ELEVATOR COMPANY. The apprenticeship covered all aspects of lift engineering from installation to service and callbacks. The installation training was to me the most informative as you learn to wire the installation and get to know all the component parts and what they do.After finishing my apprenticeship i joined the installation team in Manchester (my home town) and started installing lifts myself , whilst still taking advice from the more experienced fitters, (never be afraid to ask). I then moved to the EXPRESS LIFT COMPANY and installed all kinds of lifts with them for about 10 years. Different kit but you soon adapt to the different wiring connections etc. I suppose i must have installed around 40 lifts in this time before moving on to the service side of the operations. Installing a lift in those days was a lot more complicated than todays fast track ready built drop in kits. The average time for installation was 1 week per floor, 1 week for the motor room and a week for testing and adjusting and completing the snagging list. I did not have any pre conceived ideas about being a lift engineer, my Dad took me to the youth employment agency 2 weeks after leaving school and we took the first thing that the man picked out of the file!. I spent 48 years in the industry and it has been good to me , modern lifts are not very interesting in my opinion the relay based controllers were a pleasure to fault find on.
The capacitor is used as a time base for the timer. Therefore, by loosing its capacitance, the timer actuates more quickly.
I honestly never would have thought a capacitor. Also that was a really informative video.
+c750dt Thanks! Yes, once you look into most lift designs and break down the various circuits they are mostly relatively simple
mrmattandmrchay I rode a 4 MPS 20 Story Otis lift a few minutes ago & it was a rocket
mrmattandmrchay ah man no problem thanks for replying and have a nice day greatings -Ryan
Sorry about that and have a good day also :)
As long as you have access to this abandoned building, you should shoot some footage of the machine room and of the view out of the windows on the upper floors. Um you should probably use the stairs to get up there though because neglected elevators are kinda dangerous to ride in.
It seems that part of that controller was ransacked. I'm surprised that the lift still works.
As of this morning its still there and working. They seem to have rectified the door issue at least partly. No sign of any refurbishment as of yet. The other lift is still switched off.
I suspect its days are numbered. I am only guessing but i suspect the reason the other lift hasnt worked for such a long time is that it has been a donor of parts to keep the other lift going.
+Richard Young Very good point! Yes I bet this is the case
Well, I guess that would be an easy fix by replacing those caps. But I'm sure they will use this as argument to modernize the entire lift :(
yep!! you're right, but would love the opportunity to try and fix it! I'd even pay for the capacitors ;)
Plenty of spares on the other controller.
Well done Matt, that brings back a few memories.
+Peter Lomas This is the type of lift that we need to explore Pete!
mrmattandmrchay Absolutely.
The 1960s otises at my hospital haven't been completely modernised, only the fixtures and the floor indicator have been modernised by LML
Is there any fear of getting stuck in it?
Even with the description (very informative and I never would have guessed), I'd be concerned if something crapped out entirely.
hmmmm, well I have to reply from my perspective here... it may not be everyone's opinion. I would kind of like to become trapped and be rescued, it's on my bucket list. I've done the "go through car wash with windows open" one (th-cam.com/video/fUtSRjrm3BQ/w-d-xo.html) that was funny lol, and I want to do the "get properly stuck in a lift". Almost did it here, but wasn't what I wanted as it started up again...th-cam.com/video/jH8Vs-y-qsc/w-d-xo.html
Can only really get PROPERLY stuck in an old lift - if it stops, has to be reset by hand, not by a computer!
Thanks for the comment
I'm not afraid of getting stuck on a roller coaster and evac'd, yet an elevator... there's this strange fear factor I have! I found your channel by accident, but fascinated learning new things.
Nice elevator:D
I do wonder if these will be next for an upgrade bearing in mind Moto has just modernised one of the lifts at Lancaster Forton services and they dated from 1965.
It's very possible. Perhaps they are making long term plans for the building and are delaying things as much as possible. I mean, if they were to reopen the top floor, or knock the tower down, then they wouldn't want to spend money on the lifts until they knew what they were going to do.
At least the old lifts are on youtube! :)
Just to let you know. The Outis lift in the Merton Hotel in Jersey has a relay I do belive and it's a old lift as well. Just saying for if your intersted.
Cool thanks! I remember staying in a hotel in Jersey about 10 years ago - yeah there are probably hundreds of hotels in Jersey lol, but it had a really old lift which seemed to stop in a different place depending on how many people were in the lift! This was before youtube was around, so no video :( Thanks for the info, not planning to go there but if I do I'll research it :)
The upper floors look low enough that external stairs could be added easily (unlike Lancaster) to allow the upper floor to reopen. Two stairs can allow upto 600 guests to evacuate).
----
The history of Rank is an interesting one- over the years they owned
Odeon and other cinema chains (now part of AMC, film studios, film
printing and distribution companies (later Deluxe Film), Rank Screen
Advertising (now DCM), Butlins and Haven holiday camps/caravan parks,
Rank Xerox (Co venture with Xerox, now 100% Xerox owned), Rank Strand
(theatre lighting now owned by Phillips), nightclubs, part of Universal
Studios Florida.
Now they only own gambling companies (Mecca Bingo, Grosvenor Casinos and
some online gaming sites.
+mark_h Very interesting info about Rank I didn't know it was thr same company but I had to triple check the logo before I added it to the movie... thought I recognised it!
The thing is...everything is now established on the ground floor. It would cost a whole heap of money to move it to the tower other than to give people a better view. You'd have thought that they might have done this before now but the top floor has been closed apparently since 1971!
I heard that begining soundtrack in a movie somewhere, but I can't think the name. Wonderful video, and if you mind sending a link to the soundtrack, that would be so lovely. Thanks Matt.
From what time in the video?
Why is the down button keyed off when you can only go down?And that door is SUPER unsafe.May be time for a small refurbishment.
+PotatoLift1 That's a good question and I did wonder that myself. Possibly the right lift is for staff only so maybe the keyswitch has been connected to call the right lift? I'm just speculating here because I don't know. Strange though
The DOWN landing calls are stacked on the R/H selector and the UP landing calls on the L/H selector. As the R/H lift has been de-comissioned the interconnections between the 2 selectors would be disconnected. The system is now working as a simplex (single) installation but only the UP landing calls are active.
Very cool :)
+FireController#1847 thanks
Using the elevator doors is broken
Do we know if it has been repaired yet?
Richard Young It has yes
cool lift and interesting fault!!!
+Knuckles the Echidna I agree and thanks
Awesome lov ur vids
+spike 5000 cool thanks for your comment; )
no problem, lets hope this one just gets a new capacitor and not a modernisation *gag*
Just been to Hilton Park, the old Otis lift is now boarded up and seems to be getting refurbished
Yes, should be complete by now. I have a very interesting update video coming soon!
@@mrmattandmrchay can't wait!!!
Are capacitors even available for this lift?
yeah, I mean, if you open up a power supply, or anything really you will find a capacitor. So I'm 100% sure you could buy a similar capacitor somewhere to replace these ones
Did the Otis elevator on the right side run?
you mean the first ones or the 1960s ones well if you put a key in then it would go down or up to g 1 or 2
yes but its is switched off ready to be modded
The RH lift is already modded with MRL, whilst the LH old otis is switched off and will only be used if the RH lift goes wrong.
More coming soon on this
Bad news when I went last time bout 1 month ago they had a sticker saying it is time for a upgrade I saw schindler parts so not the worst mod but not a good one
Hi, I went there about 3 weeks ago - update coming soon!
Poor old Otis.
+BobEckert56 agreed :)
Cool Video
cool Old 1970 Otis lift mrmatt
+christopher 2000 Thanks loyal mrmattandmrchay supporter; )
on 26/5/2017 I will be going back to some really old john & waygood lifts and old Otis lift cant wait to see them again :-) if you want to see these very rare john & waygood lifts you can check em out on my channel mrmatt and I'm going back to see if there still original :-) the john & waygood company is not around anymore in Australia :-)
@3:45, how would you know about the capactor is the faulty ones? I have always been curious about the one filled with electricity. I once touched the both tip of capactor and threw me across the room.
Yay I live in Edinburgh!
Been there a few times. Btw why is your profile photo upside down lol?
YOU SHOULD COME JOIN OTIS AND BECOME AN LIFT ENGINEER
I'm well established in a different industry thanks :)
your a really good youtuber! I love your channel!
Thank you! :)
@@mrmattandmrchay np :)
Sadly the Otis with the bad doors has been modernised and beam sensors have been installed
LH lift has been shut down. RH lift should be working by now. I've been there recently and filmed one or two things!
@@mrmattandmrchay Please hurry!!!
When I last stoped there, the LH Lift Had Beam Sensors Bu t Still Felt Very “Otis”
but I don't live there :(
Have you been to England before?
I am not allowed to answer
If they want to repair theses lifts, they just have to change the capacitors.
yep! But I think that engineers would be afraid to do it, because getting involved with a lift of this age might introduce another fault while repairing the first one!
I would love the opportunity to do it though! As Pete Lomas also stated, it might be that the capacitors are not charging properly due to a high resistance from a relay contact, so might not be a simple job.
I once went in that lift
Cool! I went back here about 2 weeks ago - it's still there and the door open fault has been sorted out. Thanks for the message.
mrmattandmrchay Interesting - Was the other one working?
This capacitor just needs to be replaced and the elevator fixtures and controllers MUST be kept, right?
yes yes yes!! But there would be too many problems organising it - "red tape" and "health and safety, no win no fee compensation claims if I injured myself" and I don't think anyone would take it on. It's bound to be modernised at some stage unfortunately.
Or find the reason the capacitors are not charging, ie faulty contacts or connection somewhere else in the door timing circuitry.
If a child got in that old Otis, and panicked, the parents world sue that place into closing the whole service down.
+BobEckert56 Yes absolutely. I bet if that happened it would close those lifts down for good
Now then, I'm assuming that lift is for public (untrained user) use? How on earth has that passed an inspection?? I work on automatic & Revolving doors, and although there is no obligation on the owners of the doors to have them regularly serviced, it is recommended. Is it not mandatory for lifts to be periodically inspected?
looks to e like a worn door open contact matt, the doors struggling due to high resistance dirt or the contacts goosed its a dc circuit. that or the door speed pots.
just READ IT ALL !!!!
I’ve been there on the m6 moterway it’s good but not that good
Why they can't just replace those capacitors?
Money issues, I suppose.
Elevators needs replace the system for new one of updated. How hell failure door close is too quickly like a death trap of doors!!! (What a nuts is!) 😦
Went here today door barely opens now have to force it with my hands to get in lol
you got your self a new subscriber
Nice Video!
thanks
imagine this lift a haunted maze you could stay inside the lift and keep pushing door open randomly and say im going to get you in Ur sleep Ina creepy voice thru the doors
then open them all the way and jump out with chainsaw
+Jacob Hood uhmmmmm yes...ok ;)
These 1960s service stations were odd looking builds, very odd unique designs
+Matt T I agree. Id love to go back to the 70s or 80s to see this type of buildings. Once very common but now all but gone
mrmattandmrchay I suppose they were trying to be futuristic at the time, and I suppose they would've been at the time. Would love to know how they came up with a design, or even see the plans
I agree
Kinda reminded me of the Ventolin music video...
Cool video. Did you report the dangerous lift door to Otis and tell them how easy it would be to fix?
Maybe OTIS do not have the maintenance contract.
Peter Lomas : It seems I had a brain fart lol I meant to comment "Did you report it to MOTO"
Peter Lomas Lol
Are there any lifts at M6 Charnock Richard services?
itznathyy M6 Hilton Park
do you sometimes see if you can fix simple fixes
Open it with your hand if it’s closing fast
Hi Matt. Isn´t there in GB somethink like our german Tüv? Some testing organisation which tests things linke lifts for their savety? I know you have nothing like tüv for cars, but also not for lifts? I don´t know the practise here in germany, but I think lifts are testet here every one or two years. And a lift which can´t hardly open the doors will be out of service immediately. Maybe you can explain that to me? Thank you!
I think I get what you mean. You mean like, an inspection agency? When you own an elevator, it must be tested by this government company? When I go abroad, some lifts have a certificate in them, which is to prove they comply to safety regulations. Is this what you mean?
In the UK, I've never seen it, so think that is your answer - in the UK, no.
Oh ok! The german TÜV isn´t a government agency. it´s a club. in words technischer überwachungs verein, something like technical monitoring club... sounds strange but it is that way.
Thanks for your answer!
All passenger carrying lifts in the UK are subject to periodical inspection by a competent person. The building owner or person responsible for the lift has to have insurance cover . The lift owner does not have to have a maintenance contract in place but the lift must be inspected for mechanical integrity. This is normally done by an insurance inspector who has the power to have the lift removed from service if anything in their opinion is unsafe. The HSE are informed when this occurs and the defects must be rectified before the lift can re-enter service.
Wasn't replace the system installed this door runs way slow start like this... I guess that's no longer plan update for these elevators isn't. Quite bad service as usual, you know!
6:04 RIP to you😊
6:28 reminds me of fire service phase 2.
Perhaps this has been left in fire mode (but doubt it lol)
Awesome Aasim that’s what I was thinking! 😂😂
This Elevator because 1st and 2nd floor locked
Yes
The energizer is off
The lift is on independent service
Probably Will Get Replaced With A Stupid Generic
not yet it's not. I've been there a couple of weeks ago, it's still there! Door issue has been fixed though
I LOVE ENGLAND !!!!!
You soo cool!
Please edit this one quickly!!!
They need to replace the capacitors and make maintenance to that elevator.
Lift
I would loooove to see the motor room
Any plans to see this or the tower? Would be amazing to see!
Agreed! But not done it (yet)
mrmattandmrchay Great news! Don't keep us waiting for long! Can't wait to see it along with the Forton update!
uhm.... No plans at the moment for either update :) Forton is a 4 hour drive away - if I'm driving past it then I'll pop in, but "at the moment" nothing planned
mrmattandmrchay Sorry (I thought that (yet) hinted that it will be happening soon)
Hey I live in Edinburgh
its not well progrmed it seems like the doors would not stay open here is the best way to do it, we can to make a new lift!, So that pepole can not have nightmeres but just make a new lift i am a kid with 7 years old my dad is a programer makeing uhh i cant tell i dont wanna be a spoiler but do what i said and it will be all good life :)
Very strange for these elevator, what wrong with updated fixture these elevator? Still unusual or closed or something else?
Lift
What?@@MichalM
This is why I hate relay lifts. Moden lfits can be reliable if the companies didn't make it shit on purpose or it'll last longer than relay lifts probably
At least it has not been modernised by generic
Lots of computers
Why can't they reservice the lift to make it better without modernising it
Several reasons - 1) lack of engineer knowledge on older lift systems, 2) new lifts, mirrors, shiney, makes the building feel better, 3) lack of parts for older worn out machinery, 4) No profit in getting an old lift working - remember, these are businesses - they have employees to pay!
Sad
First nice video
Ötiz
This stupid doors!!
You Know It Right ?
You customer? to can ride
This 'was' passenger lift, although now it has a sign saying "goods lift" above it, because the other lift was modernised. The modernised lift is the one they want you to use now.
At 6:33 he stuck the👆 up
It should use a supercapacitor so it lasts longer.