I got the same 13.25" result installing it on a pistol with LAW folder. My fin type brace only needed one plug . . . as you mentioned, the number needed varies by brace. If the ATF implements the ATF4999, you could use more than one to create a brace with a length that isn't adjustable - only one length - that's short enough to reduce length of pull points down to the number needed to pass Section II when added with the other Section II points. This won't hit, if it does, until December 2022. I expect there will be some Federal Court involvement before then -- that doesn't look good for the things ATF has been doing.
so you really only need a plug in the hole farthest forward that you need to block. once you block that the holes further back are not available because it can't get past that first plug to get to the other open holes. is that correct or am I missing something?
Idk about just blocking the furthest one forward and not the others. I can see a counterargument that one can bypass the first one and lock it on the last one. I guess it comes down to how one can explain what we do in case something happens and we end up with an attorney aiding.
@@WoodsDog I guess that makes sense if the prosecutor or ATF was really out to get you. Probably better to buy more plugs and spend a little more to avoid hassle later. Just doesn't seem really necessary to limit the pull though. Still, if they come after you, you would probably wish you had plugged them all! :) thanks! great response!
@@CharlesD4rwin I just covered the holes 🕳 then used a spacer and then lightly epoxied it all in... Would take tools to remove it but it can be returned to normal if I ever want to remove the side folder and return the brace to a full LOP.
Yeah the folder comes with a castle nut to hold the takedown pin's detent and spring in place. The normal castlenut that comes with the pistol goes behind the folder to hold everything in place. This one has to be tight enough otherwise I've had it walk off as I'm shooting it at the range.
@@HaveRandomQuestions mine's a Sylvan Arms. It seems on the link that it should come with it on the Law too. Does it have issues on the buffer tube with recoil? I'm curious
Nope... You leave the brace on for LOP measurement, but take it off for OAL measurement, unless you have a side folder, then you don’t count the brace at all; you measure until the end of the receiver... Clear as mud right 😬🤔😖🤪😝!?
@@TooManyChoices1 so let me get this straight. With a folder oal is to the reciever because it can fold? But for lop is the folder length included? If not is the sba4 out of spec because its 1 inch greater in length than an sba3? If so "shimming" the adjustment holes like in the video legal?
How do you like the Sylvan? I've heard mixed reviews on it. I'm between that and the law gen 3 but wouldn't mind saving a few bucks if it's not at the expense of reliability/performance
Personal opinion: I like it and am happy with it. I don't need the plug stopper in the back. The Gen 3 has a better profile though. If I didn't mind to spend the extra money on the Law one, I probably would've preferred the Law (emphasis on word probably). After trying both the Law and Sylvan I like the Sylvan better for the easier button to unlock and disassemble though those exact same things is what others like about the Law. With the money saved you can always get other gear or ammo.
You'd have to ask the manufacturer. I remember somewhere on their website SB mentions specifically not to modify anything on their brace and the only thing is the limiters. Length of pull is an ATF thing though. I know it sounds confusing with this stuff.
This is no longer necessary. The LOP requirement came from Worksheet 4999 that was shot down. Its not lawful and just an ATF opinion which is not backed by law. There is no lop legal requirement.
I usually carry an armorers wrench to tighten the castle nut at the range if it does move (and it has happened to me on this pistol). The reason I don't use loctite is that I have swapped the folder between guns multiple times. If you plan on never removing it, it's not a bad idea. If you're like me always fiddling with gun parts, flexibility is more important. Hope this helps.
@@WoodsDog Yeah I switch mine too. Thanks. Do you need a QD end plate like this one to go with the castle nut? www.sb-tactical.com/product/bcm-gunfighter-qd-endplate/
You're better off swiveling that tape measure across the back of the stock and setting your limit to 13 1/4. that's how the ATF measured the honey badger and decided that it was too long and no longer a pistol.
Exactly what i was looking for thanks for going straight to the point
I got the same 13.25" result installing it on a pistol with LAW folder. My fin type brace only needed one plug . . . as you mentioned, the number needed varies by brace. If the ATF implements the ATF4999, you could use more than one to create a brace with a length that isn't adjustable - only one length - that's short enough to reduce length of pull points down to the number needed to pass Section II when added with the other Section II points. This won't hit, if it does, until December 2022. I expect there will be some Federal Court involvement before then -- that doesn't look good for the things ATF has been doing.
I was looking for something like that. I'm glad I came across this video. Just subscribed
Thanks for your informative video. I just got my limiters today, but no installation instructions were included.
Glad It helped!
September 2024 do I still need this ?
@@jordanrussell5249 idk. Not up to speed with the laws anymore.
so you really only need a plug in the hole farthest forward that you need to block. once you block that the holes further back are not available because it can't get past that first plug to get to the other open holes.
is that correct or am I missing something?
Idk about just blocking the furthest one forward and not the others. I can see a counterargument that one can bypass the first one and lock it on the last one.
I guess it comes down to how one can explain what we do in case something happens and we end up with an attorney aiding.
@@WoodsDog I guess that makes sense if the prosecutor or ATF was really out to get you. Probably better to buy more plugs and spend a little more to avoid hassle later. Just doesn't seem really necessary to limit the pull though.
Still, if they come after you, you would probably wish you had plugged them all!
:)
thanks! great response!
@@theoverunderthinker when you buy LOP limiters from SB, you get four, dont have to buy them individually. Also, you can 3d print these too
@@CharlesD4rwin cool. good to know. so if you have a couple of guns you just get a pack per gun then.
@@CharlesD4rwin I just covered the holes 🕳 then used a spacer and then lightly epoxied it all in... Would take tools to remove it but it can be returned to normal if I ever want to remove the side folder and return the brace to a full LOP.
why do you have two castle nut ? is there one in front of your LAW TACTICAL FOLDING ADAPTER too?
Yeah the folder comes with a castle nut to hold the takedown pin's detent and spring in place.
The normal castlenut that comes with the pistol goes behind the folder to hold everything in place. This one has to be tight enough otherwise I've had it walk off as I'm shooting it at the range.
@@WoodsDog Hm weird. I bought one and it didnt come with it. www.lawtactical.com/ar_folding_stock_adapter_gen_3_m_p/99312.htm
@@HaveRandomQuestions mine's a Sylvan Arms. It seems on the link that it should come with it on the Law too. Does it have issues on the buffer tube with recoil? I'm curious
If I'm not mistaking, the ATF, in their infinite use of double standards, requires the brace to be removed for this measurement.
I'd have to look up that letter
Nope... You leave the brace on for LOP measurement, but take it off for OAL measurement, unless you have a side folder, then you don’t count the brace at all; you measure until the end of the receiver... Clear as mud right 😬🤔😖🤪😝!?
@@TooManyChoices1 you only measure it folded if the folded part isnt needed for operation. like an ak.
not for length of pull. oal is measured to end of buffer? or buffer hinge
@@TooManyChoices1 so let me get this straight. With a folder oal is to the reciever because it can fold? But for lop is the folder length included? If not is the sba4 out of spec because its 1 inch greater in length than an sba3? If so "shimming" the adjustment holes like in the video legal?
It would help if you measure to the longest point of your brace
Thanks for the informative video sir 👍🏽
How do you like the Sylvan? I've heard mixed reviews on it. I'm between that and the law gen 3 but wouldn't mind saving a few bucks if it's not at the expense of reliability/performance
Personal opinion: I like it and am happy with it. I don't need the plug stopper in the back. The Gen 3 has a better profile though.
If I didn't mind to spend the extra money on the Law one, I probably would've preferred the Law (emphasis on word probably). After trying both the Law and Sylvan I like the Sylvan better for the easier button to unlock and disassemble though those exact same things is what others like about the Law. With the money saved you can always get other gear or ammo.
The law 3 is much better spend a little go for the law tactical
Is it considered to be modifying the brace if my brace isn't specifically from SB?
You'd have to ask the manufacturer. I remember somewhere on their website SB mentions specifically not to modify anything on their brace and the only thing is the limiters. Length of pull is an ATF thing though. I know it sounds confusing with this stuff.
This is no longer necessary. The LOP requirement came from Worksheet 4999 that was shot down. Its not lawful and just an ATF opinion which is not backed by law. There is no lop legal requirement.
Did you use loctite on the brace or folder threads?
No
I usually carry an armorers wrench to tighten the castle nut at the range if it does move (and it has happened to me on this pistol).
The reason I don't use loctite is that I have swapped the folder between guns multiple times. If you plan on never removing it, it's not a bad idea. If you're like me always fiddling with gun parts, flexibility is more important. Hope this helps.
@@WoodsDog Yeah I switch mine too. Thanks. Do you need a QD end plate like this one to go with the castle nut? www.sb-tactical.com/product/bcm-gunfighter-qd-endplate/
@@hammerain93 The SBA3 has a QD built in...
You're better off swiveling that tape measure across the back of the stock and setting your limit to 13 1/4. that's how the ATF measured the honey badger and decided that it was too long and no longer a pistol.
Great video 👍
Thanks I just did this