@@AinSoph73 define noise and music, I have found very few composers that are as exciting and fun using such dissonances, that’s what distinguishes ginastera for me
@@zgart Music - a catchy tune with symmetrical micro and macro structure. Noise - chaos without a purpose that may or may not contain elements of music.
To ivanvaraschini: "This shit fucked my brain". Now don't be bashful. Admit that you have a Masters degree in English Composition and Style. How else could you have developed such polished eloquence?
@@sneddypie If the piece had been written in 1910, say, I might agree, but it was in fact written in 1981. In 1981 this sort of thing was old hat. It represented the long-established orthodoxy. That, I hasten to add, is not an assesssment of its value as a piece. I like it considerably more than I like Ginastera’s first piano sonata, but I can’t consider its composition an act of audacious daring.
@@jeffryphillipsburns the thing is, i dont think ginastera was ever a truly revolutionary figure, and i dont know if he was ever trying to be. Instead, for me he extended different musical traditions to create some of my favorite music (2nd piano concerto and 2nd cello concerto for me)
Los 2 ultimos movimientos de esta obra son de influencia andina, yo soy de calama al norte de chile y en esa ciudad y en san pedro de atacama llega mucho la influenxia andina, el 2 movimiento es un Harawi que es un canto lirico cantado por mujeres" cholitas" y en 3ro el rito de el registro grave es el ritmo del "carnavalito" que es un tipo de danza andina bastante festiva, si usted se anima, puede buscar en youtube ejemplos de harawi y "carnavalito " para obsrrvar como los deformó y estolizó ginastera
Most of this piece is pretty manageable once you learn the patterns. Then there are a few sections that are just crushingly hard. 0:40 - repeated blind jumps into irregular shaped chords. Like hitting two bullseyes on two different dart boards at the same time, 3 times in a row. And forget about sight-reading this thing. 2:45 - These four bars are practically impossible to play cleanly and accurately because of the large handspans and jumps, made worse by the fact that all four repetitions need to sound exactly the same. 6:05 - This whole middle section of the slow movement. Ugh. Hands trip all over one another, it's difficult to read in the 7/8 time signature, it's ridiculously fast and it all has to be molto pianissimo. 9:52 - the interlocking tritones are uncomfortable, and extremely tricky to play accurately in both hands. Easy to end up with bloody fingers. Slow, methodical practice and muscle memory are the only way to get this part down, and even then, every attempt to play this thing is terrifying. It's the plunge into hell. Oh, and of course you have to do it twice because of the mandatory repeat. 11:00 - Your reward for getting through the repeats is a splashy cadenza-like section with glittery vaults into the stratosphere, interspersed with reminders of the ostinato rhythm from the beginning of the movement. The challenge here is maintaining the rhythmical drive while flying across the full range of the piano doing acrobatics. Viani simplifies some of the hardest passages by broadening them for emphasis, which is a valid decision of interpretation but might not match Ginastera's intentions. Nissman, for example, doesn't slow down for the passage at 11:30. Even so, I think Viani has the best feel for this piece and the most secure execution, though Nissman sometimes has a bit more character. In Viani's reading, the relentless drive of the Allegro movement, the terror of stillness in the Adagio, and the raw, violent energy of the Ostinato aymará all come through in bold relief. The sound quality is stellar and the instrument's tone has a muted glint that seems tailor made for this earthy, primal piece of music.
Stravinsky. All about rhythm and repeating the same wrong sounding chords until they sound right. Musical Stockholm syndrome. The first minute 15 sounds like 2:30. This is what they played for Patty Hearst when they locked her in the closet over and over until she became Tanya. I just know this music was involved. :)
@@FernandoViani Sorry, this is an extremely difficult piece and you have excellent technique. But there is too much pedal so I feel some of the interpretation is lost
@@calebhu6383 have you studied this sonata? I do not see arguments in your answer and it is also extremely general, so your comment sounds pedantic and does not serve to open a discussion. The reviews are written in the first person: this shows that the person is aware that it is only their humble opinion. Please, find out more about me and Ginastera. Get informed! I am a jury member in several international competitions. I promise not to judge you that way.
I feel like this is behind its time. Written aboug 40 years too late. That type of noise-percussion piano in the 80's is really unsurprising and there fore uncaptivating
He's obviously drawing on the cubist techniques of Bartok, which is a generation earlier, but being 40 years late is not what bothers me. It's the lack of motivic interest. Bartok's music is engaging because despite how "bangy" it can get, he always holds your interest with catchy motives and melodies. Ginastera is just bangy. His early music, up to about Op. 20, was influenced heavily by Argentinian idioms. Giving those up was a mistake in my opinion. It's what made his music stand out from the crowd of atonal avant-gardists.
Why does every single piece by Ginastera sound so badass...
Pog
because chacarera + bartokian pianism
Cuz its rhythmic noise that kind of sounds like music
@@AinSoph73 define noise and music, I have found very few composers that are as exciting and fun using such dissonances, that’s what distinguishes ginastera for me
@@zgart Music - a catchy tune with symmetrical micro and macro structure. Noise - chaos without a purpose that may or may not contain elements of music.
The best recording I've heard of this difficult work. Most people pound it to bits but he makes it sound like music.
I highly recommend Barbara Nissman's recording.
If one word must explain Ginastera's music, it's rhythm. It plays a central role in all of his music
The way he used chords and dissonances is truly fascinating. I also love those wild rhythms on the 3rd movement.
Poor Argentinians, losing their beautiful tonal music and cultural identity just to please Westerners by adopting their dodecaphonic garbage.
Sadly, in Argentina no one knows him unless you study music professionaly. This shit fucked my brain, it's amazing.
To ivanvaraschini: "This shit fucked my brain". Now don't be bashful. Admit that you have a Masters degree in English Composition and Style. How else could you have developed such polished eloquence?
i want to compose like ginastera, like he does not give a single shit, it's so good
@@zgart i mean it doesnt sound like he cared what others thought of his music, he just fuckin did it
@@sneddypie haha i get what you mean
@@sneddypie If the piece had been written in 1910, say, I might agree, but it was in fact written in 1981. In 1981 this sort of thing was old hat. It represented the long-established orthodoxy. That, I hasten to add, is not an assesssment of its value as a piece. I like it considerably more than I like Ginastera’s first piano sonata, but I can’t consider its composition an act of audacious daring.
@@jeffryphillipsburns Not necessarily old hat, but extended Bartok.
@@jeffryphillipsburns the thing is, i dont think ginastera was ever a truly revolutionary figure, and i dont know if he was ever trying to be. Instead, for me he extended different musical traditions to create some of my favorite music (2nd piano concerto and 2nd cello concerto for me)
Los 2 ultimos movimientos de esta obra son de influencia andina, yo soy de calama al norte de chile y en esa ciudad y en san pedro de atacama llega mucho la influenxia andina, el 2 movimiento es un Harawi que es un canto lirico cantado por mujeres" cholitas" y en 3ro el rito de el registro grave es el ritmo del "carnavalito" que es un tipo de danza andina bastante festiva, si usted se anima, puede buscar en youtube ejemplos de harawi y "carnavalito " para obsrrvar como los deformó y estolizó ginastera
Viani has such good control of dynamics, i dont think ive heard a performance that's as faithful to the score from any other artist or piece
4:32 Stravinsky's quote?
6:07 for demented Flight of the Bumblebee :)
こういう地獄の儀式的なリズム､マジ好きだわ…
I really like this kinda pandemonistic ritual rhythm…
Absolutely brilliant
Most of this piece is pretty manageable once you learn the patterns. Then there are a few sections that are just crushingly hard.
0:40 - repeated blind jumps into irregular shaped chords. Like hitting two bullseyes on two different dart boards at the same time, 3 times in a row. And forget about sight-reading this thing.
2:45 - These four bars are practically impossible to play cleanly and accurately because of the large handspans and jumps, made worse by the fact that all four repetitions need to sound exactly the same.
6:05 - This whole middle section of the slow movement. Ugh. Hands trip all over one another, it's difficult to read in the 7/8 time signature, it's ridiculously fast and it all has to be molto pianissimo.
9:52 - the interlocking tritones are uncomfortable, and extremely tricky to play accurately in both hands. Easy to end up with bloody fingers. Slow, methodical practice and muscle memory are the only way to get this part down, and even then, every attempt to play this thing is terrifying. It's the plunge into hell. Oh, and of course you have to do it twice because of the mandatory repeat.
11:00 - Your reward for getting through the repeats is a splashy cadenza-like section with glittery vaults into the stratosphere, interspersed with reminders of the ostinato rhythm from the beginning of the movement. The challenge here is maintaining the rhythmical drive while flying across the full range of the piano doing acrobatics.
Viani simplifies some of the hardest passages by broadening them for emphasis, which is a valid decision of interpretation but might not match Ginastera's intentions. Nissman, for example, doesn't slow down for the passage at 11:30. Even so, I think Viani has the best feel for this piece and the most secure execution, though Nissman sometimes has a bit more character. In Viani's reading, the relentless drive of the Allegro movement, the terror of stillness in the Adagio, and the raw, violent energy of the Ostinato aymará all come through in bold relief. The sound quality is stellar and the instrument's tone has a muted glint that seems tailor made for this earthy, primal piece of music.
09:44 the last two bars were swallowed on the first lap
Notif gang 😤😤😤
I love the First Piano Sonata. Performed it a few times. This one leaves me flat.
Me recuerda un poco al Allegro Barbaro de Bartók.
Stravinsky. All about rhythm and repeating the same wrong sounding chords until they sound right. Musical Stockholm syndrome. The first minute 15 sounds like 2:30. This is what they played for Patty Hearst when they locked her in the closet over and over until she became Tanya. I just know this music was involved. :)
Too bad that there is too much pedal in the interpretation
Compared to the other versions ive heard, i actually really like this interpretation LOL but i see what you mean
Really? Is my interpretation “too bad”? How good you know Ginastera and Argentinean music?
@@FernandoViani Sorry, this is an extremely difficult piece and you have excellent technique. But there is too much pedal so I feel some of the interpretation is lost
@@calebhu6383 have you studied this sonata? I do not see arguments in your answer and it is also extremely general, so your comment sounds pedantic and does not serve to open a discussion. The reviews are written in the first person: this shows that the person is aware that it is only their humble opinion. Please, find out more about me and Ginastera. Get informed! I am a jury member in several international competitions. I promise not to judge you that way.
@@FernandoViani I am very capable of having my own opinion regardless of how many competitions you've judged.
I gotta read the Bible after listening to this shit
Check out ginasteras psalm 150! He has some great religious music
why
No se porque me gusta pero, me gusta
2:44
Woah! :D
11:54 can be clickbait thumbnail
You are awesome
I feel like this is behind its time. Written aboug 40 years too late. That type of noise-percussion piano in the 80's is really unsurprising and there fore uncaptivating
idk its catchy to me, sure its “too late” but i think its still very distinct from those who influenced him like bartok and whatnot
He's obviously drawing on the cubist techniques of Bartok, which is a generation earlier, but being 40 years late is not what bothers me. It's the lack of motivic interest. Bartok's music is engaging because despite how "bangy" it can get, he always holds your interest with catchy motives and melodies. Ginastera is just bangy. His early music, up to about Op. 20, was influenced heavily by Argentinian idioms. Giving those up was a mistake in my opinion. It's what made his music stand out from the crowd of atonal avant-gardists.