Kyle Kulinski Regrets Not Encouraging Viewers To Vote For Joe Biden?
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#joebiden #biden
My argument for voting for dems in “red states” is that I live in Kansas, and we have a democrat as a governor. Thats all that needs to be said.
Kentucky, Louisiana and North Carolina are also good examples
Yup
State elections are very different then national ones. It'd take a literal act of God for a dem to win Texas.
Who vetoed bad bills
I love Laura kelly! Defeating fascism is important all around the country
I've been following Kyle for years. He's actually the guy that made me more left before I discovered Vaush and others. Kyle has always been the kinda guy to accept when he's wrong and do better. Nothing but respect for him.
He's pretty smoothbrained on foreign policy and is pretty soft on rogan and dore but he at least operates in good faith and wants to actually make life better for people and knows what will achieve that goal
Kyle is on the left of vaush
@@Mae_Dastardlyhas he even brought up Dore since they fell out?
@@brianvaira486 iunno lmao i dont tune into him too often recently i prettymuch only click on his videos when he reports on something noone else is or the title is so ridiculous i know hes gonna be on some funny shit
@@brianvaira486in this video he brought up that dore saying the republicans are the lesser evil is dumb
Kyle outright sh*tting on Dore was extremely satisfying. DO IT ON YOUR OWN SHOW, KYLE.
lol It really was! Yeah, I'd like to see him do that on secular talk. I honestly don't know how anyone can take Dore seriously at this point.
@@professorpancakes6545while technically this wasnt on his showbsecular talk, this section was clipped out and put on his youtube channel.
That would be some secular talk
”Now I am become regret, voter of Bidens” - Kyle E. Kulinski
I take it you just saw Oppenheimer?
@@Living_Life242 great film!
"Hi, Barbie!"
"Hi, Barbie!"
"Hi, Kyle!"
"Hi, Barbie!"
@@szzrhn This brief interaction between you and @Nicholas_Sweeting was wholesome, taken right out of a mid 2000's sitcom😂.
I loved Oppenheimer, but I still maintain that Interstellar was Nolan's best film.
"I wish more people would understand how meaningless their vote for president is." Talk about the definition of an anti-democratic statement, in addition to being the worst possible political mobilization strategy!
And contradictory!
Criticizing the implementation is not the same as criticizing the concept itself. For example it is perfectly legal to vote in a president with 50,1% votes and you cannot get every voter to vote, so practically it is impossible to elect a president which would for sure represent the majority. You can criticize that as undemocratic and it should be perfectly consistent.
Practically speaking, your singular vote does not matter. Everyone knows this, it's not controversial. The true issue is that we have all agreed to never talk about it, because even though one person doesn't matter 10 thousand would.
But also it's true?
@@masonskiekonto590 I had that same ideal at one time, but that rationale doesn't make sense to me anymore. Especially with the direction things are going, and the people who are being put into office now.
Those 10 thousand votes that "matter" are comprised of 10 thousand singular votes that "don't matter" according to you... That seems like a backwards mindset. You're focusing on the macro, while dismissing the micro. Ignoring that the macro vote is composed of all of the micro vote, seems like a losing proposition. To get to the number of votes that you think matter, is all made up of singular votes.
If people think that their single vote doesn't matter, therefore there is no point, they have effectively disengaged themselves from civics. And that is exactly what the authoritarian/fascists want. They want less people to vote, be it through apathy or legislation, because that makes it far easier for them to take control.
In what context was this said? I wish more people would understand how important their vote for president is in the sense that yes, it's a really important democratic right you have and we need as many people (particularly who would vote for good candidates, let's be honest), to vote as possible. But also, I wish people would understand how meaningless their vote is, in that in this system, the vast majority of people's votes count for nothing. The majority of Americans live in safe states, therefore their presidential vote is ultimately irrelevant to the outcome. Doesn't matter if California goes 60/40 or 90/10 to Dems, it's all the same. It should cause a national outrage that people's votes matter more in particular states and that presidential candidates don't even feel the need to campaign in those states that don't matter, but it doesn't.
So there's two ways of looking at it.
Its so bonkers listening to these guys,
my state, MN, has made so much progress this year after we elected a full Democratic (farmer-Labor) government.
we got these results by NOT voting for the Greens.
and we got WAY more progress with the Dems then we ever got with Jesse the Body. I don't get why people are fixated on 3rd parties.
Because the policies are better? Pretty self-explanitory. It's all well and good to vote Dem if they fucking do anything. The issue with the Dems was always that at a Federal level, they feel secure enough that they know they dont fucking have to do anything.
To be fair there are 16 other states with a democratic party trifecta and they haven't done shit. I would put more credit to ranked choice voting, which elected way more progressives that can affect change from the bottom up
OMG you were calling me out. I lived in Minnesota in 2000 and voted for Ralph Nader, because I knew Minnesota I was just vote blue anyways. But hey, I was 18. It was my first election.
That's the thing, though. Midwestern democrats are way more blue collar oriented in these states. Where as costal democrats tend to lean into neo liberalism more
@@wplants9793 well Ralph Nader was amazing
as a long time Kyle viewer I feel so weird how Kyle obviously has integrity and seems like a genuinely good guy, while Krystal has become some sort of grifter just giving their conservative audience what they want and never pushing back, I wanna know what he thinks about all that
He makes lots money and he has a hot babe that’s contributing to making even more. He’s living his dream.
She’s his wife and he clearly loves her.
@@Observette It makes me think Krystal actually thinks she’s doing good with her show and she’s not grifting. I know Kyle would never marry a grifter and sacrifice his integrity that way. Dude is the most principled political commentator I’ve ever seen.
@@Observette Yes, which is disturbing to anyone who's both psychologically astute and empathic, because he really is an earnest, decent guy, and mark my worlds that will _not_ end well.
@@mikeh6700well it looks like he did in fact marry a grifter
I definitely think there's a little populist brainrot from being politically active prior to the trump years, but man Kyle is a legend. Dude has so much integrity and genuinely cares about the issues, even when I think he's wrong I never get the sense he's disingenuous. I wish more of anti-establishment left news was like him rather than Jimmy Dore.
I stopped watching him really when he had all those tankie takes on Ukraine. Stopped paying alot of attention to him with the whole Rogan fiasco.
I think alot of older lefties who were active prior 2016, especially legends like Kyle, are infected with the proverbial "populist brain-rot", as you put it, including America Bad takes and radical "free speech" advocacy.
But, I will agree with you that he still seems like a standup guy, despite his horrible takes and clusterfuck of opinions on foreign policy and geopolitics.
Seriously people act like populist brain rot doesn’t exist on the left and if it does they say it just means they’re grifting. Leftists sometimes can be insanely stupid and embarrassing.
He's a bit of a manchild. Too whiny and extremely unrealistic. He's constantly pushing for crazy stuff "just because", with no thought about what his tantrums do in the long term.
If you ask me, Kyle is just Jimmy Dore minus 10-15 years. He's on the slipper slope to irrelevance.
@@donovan4222you can be a leftist without being a populist and there are also populists on the right as well. I don’t know where you’re getting your info from.
@@donovan4222 I’m sure there are leftists that just say they’re leftist and don’t give it two thoughts. You have to realize, the world isn’t black and white, there is much more grey area than that and not all leftists have the exact same views. Same for people on the right, I’d say most people on the right are populists but not all of them. That’s ridiculous to group everyone under the same conjecture.
I remember he said "you should vote for Biden and I would too but in New York my vote doesn't matter because most people vote Democrat anyway" he probably means really encouraging people and giving it a big push
That kind of mindset is how NY right next to Florida suffered the biggest red wave since 2014, with Hochul only winning by 6 or so points in a state biden won by over 20 points.
Yes NY Dems and Hochul are fucking giga garbage, I totally understand how excruciating it is to vote for such a shit democrat, but the worst democrat is always better than the best republican.
Yea that was his stance and I agreed with him then and I agree with him now as well. Biden ain’t Obama, let’s be clear
@@Jeevanm71biden has done better things than Obama he is just less charismatic
My problem with that is he said that in like one video, whilst having a dozen videos mimicking bernie-or-bust anti-electoral sentiments.
@@Khalkaras someone who was watching closely at that time. What you’re saying isn’t true.
He was Bernie or bust for the primary. It carried in for a bit, then once he changed his mind to what OP said, he held it there till the end of the election.
We love people learning from and admitting their mistakes!
We stan learning in this house.
Not even. He doesn’t get why he was wrong. Even if Biden wasn’t as good as he ended up being he still should have voted against fascism. Also Kyle is literally an open capitalist, he isn’t a leftist.
Kyle is basically inverse Hasan.
He hasn't learned anything. He went full accelerationist in February '20 after Bernie lost. Its pure damage control. I'll grudgingly take it but it isn't genuine.
Only way the flip people is to have kyle’s attitude. If Biden did 3 things that you really like why wouldn’t you not vote for him? So the Dems get the power to do 100 things. That’s will maybe let Biden do 3 things to make red voters flip.
The lefts apathy to the system and refusal to participate in it, allows the fascist to gain more and more ground
True leftists are out every day working in and mutually supporting local movements and organizations. We recognize that the Republican Party is right and the Democrats are center-right. Both are corrupt to their cores.!
The only reason the Democrats do not always have a super majority in all houses is because a higher percentage of righty bigots vote vs the low percentage of lefty progressives.
For a couple reasons:
1. Because bigoted fear and hatred is a stronger motivator than prosperity for everyone.
2. Sadly because of the isolation of rural citizens causing more bigoted group think in rural America, and it is easier to vote with a rural lifestyle than an urban lifestyle.
That is not the point they are making
@@MommaMollycuck talk take it somewhere else.
Kyle's skill has always been his ability to regurgitate policy details on the spot. It's always been impressive.
It's genuinely impressive. Vaush thought that shit was on a screen - nope. Anyone who watches Kyle knows this dude can information dump specific policy details in seconds.
@@alvarovazquez525yup
@@alvarovazquez525 Somebody get that man some Adderall and some seltzer.
Kyle Kulinski is not exactly my favorite lefty youtuber but I have a lot more respect for him now. I mean, the honesty to simply express regret over what he now thinks was a bad decision is something that is just very rare to find these days on TH-cam, most people simply double-down on their previous mistakes.
Double down on mistakes? Oh you mean Hassan
. . . Honest like continuing to lie about advocating for a Trump victory in '20 after Bernie lost the primary using an accelerationist argument? That's not very honest in my book but maybe we're using different definitions of honest.
@@sypherthe297th2My guy you've replied with this exact same thing to every comment that's positive about Kyle, you need to get a hobby, we get it.
@@donovan4222 I don't watch him much but whenever I've seen him called out on stuff generally dumb Ukraine takes or there was the whole chair Gate thing. Just playing other people's content while he wasn't even there to comment he just kinda gets angry and yells
I've been watching Kyle since shortly after he started, and the dude is by far and away the most principled and honest political commentator out there. I genuinely don't know anyone that holds a candle to him on that end.
As fans, we love dunking on the guy too for being goofy looking (that hair man), but he knows his shit better than anyone. When Vaush expressed disbelief at all the policy items he could recollect from the back of his head and chalked it up to a screen, my first thought was "nope, anyone who has every watched Kyle knows this dude has that shit preloaded on his temporal lobe".
Back in 2020, I was on the fence about either not voting or voting for Biden. After listening to Kyle’s takes and then to yours, I ended up finding your argument made more sense than his and voted for Biden and encouraged others who were on the fence to do so also. It was that moment I can trace back to where I officially switched from being primarily a Secular Talk viewer to Vaush viewer. It also didn’t help that Kyle was really late to the game when finding out how much of a grifter Jimmy Dore was. Still like Kyles takes on a bunch of issues though.
Vaushist-Bidenism triumphs!
Kyle just seems to have a really big soft spot for friends in the lefty/online space so probably best for him to not really have friends although that sounds sad
@@ntnt117000 i don’t know, he was really hanging on that friendship with JD even when it was pretty obvious what was happening. Even Vaush was telling Kyle to cut him out and eventually Jimmy came and attacked Kyle. Same thing when there was drama between JD and TYT. Kyle was fence sitting and it came back to bite him in the ass.
@@kenigma4303 yeah you're right I'm pretty sure, it was a while ago. I wonder if part of it is since he said (I think) he doesn't really watch other peoples content so he really only knows what they tell him directly
@@kenigma4303 and if what I said is true it seems like since he is just a principled and nice guy he expects the same from people he considers friends
Kyle is realizing that harm reduction is a real thing, maybe the only thing in politics.
Let me set a scene for you.
Its February '20. Biden has locked up the nomination and Bernie has lost. Krystal Ball is joining him on his show.
Then they both explicitly advocate for Trump winning to punish those voters who would suffer under Trump so they'd learn to be progressive. And this was the entire show. He has since repeatedly lied about that ever being his position. The man is a disgusting sleazebag who is only interested in his career. Don't fall for his BS. He's not a good person.
Harm reduction is a bull ideology used to justify us not moving left through an actual left wing party
you can believe in harm reduction while also not voting for either of the candidates. you just have to accept you didnt consent to having those politicians there so any consequences arent brought on by you. remember - if you're faced with a trolley problem, unless you are forced to select one of the options, you can just walk away.
@@kingobama4305 Myself, I think you have an obligation to society to vote against fascists. This means voting for their biggest opponents to ensure their defeat. But then, I'm Leftist and thus think in those terms
@@kingobama4305 And let whatever default option that would have happened without your intervention happen. Once you recognize there is a problem like this inaction is morally equivalent or even worse than acting and choosing harm reduction. Another trolley problem. You see two people drowning and you are great at swimming so no risk to yourself, but you can't save both of them in time. Choosing one or the other is impossible, but if you don't select you are responsible for both them dying. I say not choosing to vote against a party that is hellbent on ending organized human life on this planet is a similar situation. If they succeed and you chose to not help stop them, you share some responsibility for what happens.
I haven’t always agreed with Kyle on everything, but I’ve got nothing but respect for the guy for how genuine he is, and his ability to admit when he’s wrong. Frankly, those are traits that are in far too short supply nowadays, and I’d love to see them more among the online left.
Third parties are unviable and have been unviable ever since… the second Congressional session? I wish more people understood that.
Leftists managed to get the Socialist Party into congress at the height of the first red scare with even less resources to us, we can do it again if we want to and since you're a neoliberal you don't want to since Clinton liberalism is all you want
For a new party ever to become viable in modern America, they’d have to do it gradually from the bottom up starting at local elections with the ultimate goal of eventually replacing one of the 2 major parties.
Outside of the presidential election where the electoral collage is an issue, there are plenty of lesser elections through out the country they could theoretically win if they have the right candidates, funding, and strategy (especially in states that use non standard election systems).
@@williammcentee2068When I think about viability of third parties, my mind goes to Congress, and it’s really interesting that there’s only ever been viable 2 parties in Congress. The only time a “new” party came about is when one party was so powerful that the people within break into two parties along a different axis.
Kyle has his flaws, and has some bad takes, but he’s always seemed like has a good heart.
ill always rate him for being one of the few voices who pushed back on the anti-sow grift that saved people from the alt-right pipeline
Kyle Kulinski doing this and learning from his mistakes. While TYT is literally screeching over basic trans inclusivity is the definition of one step forward 2 steps back
Some mistakes you can't be redeemed from. For example, after Bernie lost Kulinski had Krystal Ball on his show and they both pushed a Trump victory so that people would suffer enough to be more progressive. I almost fell out of my chair hearing that. He can never come back from that imo. Its disgusting he's still involved in progressive politics.
@@sypherthe297th2 A lot of leftists went accelerationist after Bernie lost. Thinking anything good will happen under accelerationism assumes the people are and will continue to be free to choose and they just aren't. Trump tried to reject the election result and if he gets in again he will try it again. Its pure authoritarianism and if he makes being a democrat illegal, totalitarian.
@@sypherthe297th2I don’t remember either one of them saying that. Please share a link to the relevant video.
@@1dareu2mov3 Yeah right. I'll just go back through his list of full shows and watch all those hours of February '20 content for you which was 3+ years ago now. Anything else you'd like since apparently you watch his every episode and simply don't remember it? Maybe I can get your dry cleaning. Do you need the lawn mowed?
And thats even assuming hes left up the episode. Considering he has lied about it since itd seem likely. But I know what happened as it was only a few days before I ditched Florida to move across country due to the incoming crazy that the nutters were trying to unleash. I also haven't watched him since and I was a fan of his show prior. Somehow fascist cheerleading just ruined it for me. Imagine that.
@@sypherthe297th2Yeah I was like that for a couple months I became an accelerationist until the George Floyd protests when I realized wtf am I doing? It was a lesson for me that we cannot let our emotions dictate our political instincts so I find it understandable that he may have felt that way. I was 15 at the time but I would say I have matured in my political instincts and honestly I think he may have learned in some way from that.
The funniest thing about the Democratic party is that it's like not that solid. If join a Democratic committee you will like instantly become an allstar if you knock 50 doors a week(2-3 hour commitment). It didn't go great, but the Nevada DSA took over the whole state party apparatus lmao.
Probably the best way to get the ear of elected officials, especially local/state.
Honestly yeah. Getting in and never shutting up is a great idea. Volunteering. Joining local organizations. There are so many people who are fixtures at the local level who just didn't stop showing up. When your legislature is in session if you've got a day off go down town to talk to your legislators if you're not too far away
@@thereallocke8065 Indeed. Far too many people are lazy and then complain that doing nothing didn't work for them.
I really hope this is the beginning of a Kyle Kulinski Redemption Arc. Because he was the guy who got me into the left before I found Vaush.
@@bilbobaggins9451no
I still love Kyle. He’s had some slip ups but he’s always been honest about his views and I’ve seen him change and evolve over the years
@@bilbobaggins9451 are we forgetting about Kyle's dogshit takes on Ukraine and the fact that he was Bernie or bust for years?
What redemption arc? He doesn’t need redemption. He’s way more of a better contributor to the political space then Vaush will ever be.
@@Observette in what shape or form
I don’t think Kyle is exactly the brightest light in the Christmas tree, but I think he’s totally honest which is a breath of fresh air
Compared to other leftist commentators (atleast among the more well known ones)....I would say he is one of the brighter ones tbh. He is definitely a lot smarter than the crazy "leftists" who claim leftism while allowing themselves to be steered and easily influenced by right-wing pro-pootin anti-ukraine troll bots
Its nice to see him embrassing this sentiment with his hair
@@Katharonithe hair is epic
@@Hrotiberhtazlike Vaush when he pushed that ghost of Kiev bullshit!
@@mikelee388 If the Ghost of Kiev story was wrong..which nobody knows for sure...who cares? Imagine thinking people have to be right 100% of the time. Ukraine was invaded by a psycho and need to win, that is what is important and not every little side detail.
In my opinion, if you don't vote, you don't have a right to complain about the outcome. You didn't vote, which means you let this happen.
Oh please, did you not pay ANY attention to the fact that the DNC won their big court case recently because they said IN COURT that they ARE NOT BOUND by how people voted in their primaries? People who have no hope don’t vote so stop punching down and start presenting better options for us all!
Both candidate nominations and elections.
Too many people complain about the candidate, that did not vote for any candidate to represent the party.
@@5353Jumper Exactly. If you vote for the laws and representatives of your counties and states, you have to live with the consequences.
I really do love Kyle. He was the first dude I ever listened to in regards to politics and who eventually streamed me down the politics line to Vaush. Obviously hes not perfect like any political youtuber but he is muchh more focused on real world policy than Vaush and I really appreciate that about him. And he's much better at appealing to normies than Vaush. That clip where he just listed every good/bad thing that Biden has done? He does not read off a script. He's always just been super focused on policy and politicians records. I gotta get back into watching Kyle more. See what he's been up to.
It's adorable that Vaush thinks Kyle needs notes when talking about policy instead of him just memorizing every single policy word for word.
Kyle is wildly ignorant on a ton of topics, to the point where he isn’t worth watching.
@@mileshill7196 well I wouldn't say that... I actually like to watch him from time to time and he was the one who cemented my decision to be on the left
@@libertyprime1776 And why is that?
@@doubleextreme3143 When I quit watching him a couple years ago, his foreign policy musings were very, very obviously cribbed and indeed almost outright plagiarized from The Grayzone.
@@mileshill7196 Watch his debate with Razorfist. He literally just obliterates the guy with pure facts. He has a really good memory when it comes to politics. Debating him on politics is quite hard because you can't bs with fake news crap. He'd actually be perfect for going against Tim Pool types who require you to give out random info on the spot without the internet
You speak the truth Vaush. Voting for 3rd party candidates is braindead.
As opposed to doing the same thing over and over that has never worked ever? Talk about brainrot.
@@CookieCookieGirl could you elaborate what you mean by "has never worked ever" ?
@@bisk1407 look at our country. Elaberation done.
@@CookieCookieGirl thats not elaborating…. That’s weaseling out of a simple question
@@CookieCookieGirl But it HAS worked. If more lefties voted like Jimmy Dore wants, we'd be drowning in Republicans right now. That would be bad. Third-party and/or not voting at all = exactly the same result, and it's what BOTH major parties want from anybody leaning left. Apathy and doomerism all day long. This is why the Jimmy Dore / Russel Brand types are the biggest useful idiots on youtube.
If these people actually wanted third parties to matter, they'd do the same thing every politician does when they care about an issue but know they can't win: you run in a primary, amass some support, and then drop out in exchange for concessions.
Honestly running in a party primary is powerful. People need to look at how the teaparty and Christian conservatives hijacked the gop
I like Kyle's platinum blonde look. 🥰 Let the man COOK.
I’ll vote for the party that didn’t do a coup and has the best shot of advancing left social policy; it’s blues or reds, third parties are politically non-viable in the modern USA.
4:06 I feel like looking back at both the crime bill and PATRIOT act a lot of people need to remeber the political climate of the time and just how popular those were. These weren't split along the party lines. The Crime Bill which in hind sight was disastrous had total suppor from the black caucus. I think the handful who voted against it didnt win reelection. And the Patriot act was passed during a moment when America was fucking reeling from the most devastating terrorist attack in our history. Sadly you could kinda say anything was for security and people would go for it. Not just politicians but your constituents too.
Over all its a case study in how fear can get people to make dumb decisions. Either way we (including myself) are really quick to condemn people for supporting things that were popular but bad in the past even if that's not where they stand now.
Texas in particular is becoming more purple and may even flip blue in 2028 or the 2030s so that's another example of not voting third party when there's the growing chance of actually making a change
Texas Dems seem super motivated from what I've seen
it’s easy to forget that Texas almost went blue in the 2018 senate race. if only Beto had the brain to run again in 2020 for the other senate seat instead running a doomed presidential campaign and killing his career in Texas with talk of gun confiscation at the debate.
Firstly, I forgot Kyle got the Eminem cut. Secondly, I never understood his weird “You’re vote is an expression of yourself” rather than seeing it more as the tool that it is. Thirdly, I cannot stand abstentionism, your hands are dirty as long as you exist in the US, might as well try to get a tiny bit of the garbage off rather than make it worse
Yeah I've never got abstaining from a vote. If you're not at the table you're on the menu. History is full of examples of groups choosing to stay protest a decision making body by not showing up and the body kinda just makes decisions without them. Generally to their detriment
I voted for Ralph Nader in 2000, but I was living in Minnesota and I was 18 years old and didn’t get it. I think up until that time I believed that you should vote for the person who best represented you, and I do not understand anything beyond that.
Oh hes so much worse than that. He had Krystal Ball on his show in Feb '20 immediately after Biden locked up the nomination. They then proceeded to spend the rest of the show advocating for a Trump victory to teach all of those Biden voters a lesson for not being progressive. He has since lied about ever saying this. Repeatedly.
Kulinksi is scum. I wish more people would have listened and registered what he was saying then. I stopped listening after that after having been a fan of his for a few years by then. But some lines should never be crossed and that was one of them.
are your hands dirty if you participate in capitalism too? much like with capitalism, i didnt consent to have this bad crop of politicians to select.
@@kingobama4305 true but if you've got any lever to change things. It's like the trolly problem classic. Five people tied to one track and one person tied to another. The trolly is headed towards the five. Inaction means 5 die. Flipping a leaver will direct the trolly towards one person killing 1. Your call.
If you let thr five die. You've allowed more harm. However if you actively flip the lever you're condemning one to death.
Choosing to abstain from political engagement is basically standing by and not throwing the lever. Throwing the leaver is engagement. Whether you think one option is better than the other or that abstaining means your hands are clean is up to you
I can't understand how someone with a platform can say that your vote doesn't matter. Sure, a single vote is unlikely to ever make a difference. However, just by convincing hundreds of people you could easily make a difference in the right (or wrong) circumstances. Remember, the facists are always going to vote, it's on you to make sure they don't win.
I wonder if third parties would have a better chance of getting a hold in the United States if they would start at the local levels first. Then work up to Congress, and see if they can beat out Dems or GOP‘s on smaller levels. Going straight for the presidency is such a losing strategy. It’s absolutely delusional.
Like Cornell west should just become a representative or senator, start there buddy. Heck, even become a mayor or And elected city or state official.
I really think they would, and I think that should be the real argument for people wanting to support these parties. Stop trying to push them every 4 years in the presidential and instead do the work to actually prove their policies and platforms locally. Make them an actual political force.
No, this is a nonstarter.
Even if everything goes as you imagine, and someone starts local, becomes governor, and then runs for President... it would be suicide to do it as a 3rd party. As Vaush said, there are no coalitions; just spoilers. In fact, the more successful they are, the more of a spoiler they would be against the party they're closer aligned to.
If you want to do that, do the Bernie approach where you run as a Democrat when needed and an Independent when there otherwise isn't a need.
@@TheFinalChapters Nah, not one person. In order for a third party to become viable, they need to become an actual political force, and that means becoming more visible. If we had multiple green party reps, a solid green party platform that was nationally known, and a good portion of states had actual elected representatives in the green party, then *maybe* they'd have a chance at making some kind of difference.
We aren't just talking one person moving up, the party has to actually build their presence from the ground up. Not saying it's doable or feasible! But it would be a better start than what they are trying to do now, where they expect a single person to represent the entire party every 4 years despite having no visibility at any other point during the cycle.
@@bulletsandbracelets4140 Obviously the "one person" I'm referring to is merely the representative for President, not the party behind them.
But if we want to consider the party as a whole... it follows a simple formula in the vast majority of cases: the better the third party does, the more undemocratic the election result due to the spoiler effect.
@@TheFinalChapters I don't think you are understanding our point here, I'll try one more time and then leave it. No worries, I get what you are saying.
The two parties aren't there because they are the only ones capable of being there - they are there because they are the only ones big enough, and well established enough, to have widespread support on the level that they do. I'm not saying a third party will ever succeed in supplanting one of the big two. But I do think it's a much more meaningful, and less harmful, way to push a third party forward when we push them to engage locally and small-scale. People don't have the power by themselves to change the systems we need to change, so if they are frustrated with the two parties, it's a way they can engage without spoiling the presidency with long-shot candidates. Make your third party an actual platform that can logistically compete with the Dems/Repubs on policy proposals within the senate/house. Then you can start pushing a presidency.
It prob won't happen. But at least it doesn't hurt nearly as much in the "winner-take-all" scheme of things. I vote local green-party and left-libertarians every election, lol, because I like their platforms. If I truly wanted to throw my weight behind them, that's where I'd focus... but that (personally) isn't my fight.
Man, I remember how Vaush got exhausted by having to deal with the online left being basically united behind Bernie or Bust, and I hate to think he'll have to wade through that again in 2024, even though the current state of the online left all but guarantees it.
2020 basically purged all the but ir or bustier types. Jan 6, the SCOTUS rulings, and DeSantis changed that.
Running third party is a lost cause in any and all ways until we have ranked choice voting passed nationally.
Unfortunately, many Americans do not realize that having multiple parties is a result of having a functional system, not the cause of a functional system.
Interesting, I quit watching Kyle over those takes. Glad he's come around! I also volunteered for Bernie, not exactly a Biden fan over here.
quit watching Kyle over that one thing? That's crazy, lol
I quit watching him after like the 5th time hearing him say the US is only helping Ukraine because defense contractor profits. Even as just an offhand remark, repeating obviously false Kremlin propaganda points was triggering me. By contrast, I could forgive the 'I don't need to vote in a deep blue state' because technically that was true, just... pointless and counter productive. Misguided but not a blatant falsehood.
What’s funny is, people are now getting mad at Kyle for criticizing Cornel Wests third party run, saying Democrats are a lot better than Republicans, calling him a supporter of establishment democrats because he praises Joe Biden.
Greens in Australia suck too, I agree with the majority of their ideals but practically all they do is aid the right wing in our country. Because the voters they have a chance of grabbing potentially are Labor voters so they solely attack them and they have a history of joining the right leaning Coalition in voting against Labor's policies.
The Greens famously voted against the biggest green energy policy we ever had back in like 2008 because it didnt go far enough for them so instead we had zero progress on that issue until now really.
Theyve just done the same thing with a recent massive public housing bill
Aren't you forced to vote in Australia?
@@dansmodacct Yes, which is a good thing because it helps keep the extremist parties from taking power. We aren't beholden to 30% of the country dedicated to fascism like the US
There is a conspiracy theory that all Green Parties are controlled by Russia or other outside enemies.
I don't know how true it actually is, but the fact that it can exist says a lot.
Obama didn't have a supermajority and I wish that myth would die. He had a supermajority for about 2 months due to the way senators were being replaced and or retiring. That time was used to pass the affordable Care act.
I straight up gave up on Kulinski back during Biden's run. Dude reminded me a lot of Saagar Enjeti.
So... Krystal went with Kyle because Saagar's heart belongs to Carlson?
I get there's valid criticism when it comes to Kyle's past takes, but Saagar Enjeti is a wild name to pull out of the hat here. Literally nothing that connects the two beyond Krystal
My Republican brother is an exception to your impression that Republicans never say the electoral college renders their vote moot. He says it a lot.
Your republican brother has too much political integrity to be a republican, then. The GOP has no scruples about being as undemocratic as they need to win.
True story, the craziest Republican friend I have has gave up on voting when Trump did the COVID lock downs and operation warp speed lol
Never thought Kyle *freaking* Kulinski of all people would reignite my inner lib and get me rallying behind Dark Brandon again, but wild times we livin in
*Good to see it. Glad Kyle is learning from his mistakes.*
It is nice seeing people like Kyle doing better
I really hate when people say Obama had a super majority
Whatever, he had a setup for the first two years where he didn't need to be placating the right only for them to still not vote for the compromised legislation - he compromised for no reason. Of course, he lied about be progressive, so his compromises where what he actually wanted.
It pisses me off extremely. He only had the entire legislature on his sign for 1 and a half years,and the majority of those Democrats in Congress pre 2010 were holdovers from the Centrist Bush era of Washington where they never would’ve supported anything left of center that Obama proposed.
Obama is the perfect example of how a third party candidate winning the election would look like; without an overwhelming mandate of progressive s in Congress or Senate,you’re screwed
@@oldworldpatriot8920third party is a strong word
Why do you hate something that was objectively true?
@@danielmadeson311 it’s not. There was a small window where it could’ve been true & due to abscences (health related & otherwise) Obama never had a super majority.
Furthermore, it wouldn’t have meant anything if he did. It’s only a super majority on paper because all democrats don’t support progressive policies
"Cornel West is a crank." - Vaush
Cornell west obviously isn’t serious about the presidency because if he was then he would run as a Democrat because like he said it’s not a Parliamentary system so there’s no point in running in a third party it’s not Australia. I live in Australia I’m Australian and a third-party system is great, but it can also be very limiting because I guess our third party would be like Scotus If there’s enough votes you can stop from the winning party getting bills through.
Maybe I was in a black democratic family but we happily voted for Andrew Gillum but voting for Charlie Christie the gut we dragged our feet to the polls moment for my family when my mom physically forced me the vote for Obama back in the day 🤷🏿♂️.
Me too, but then DeSantis won in a landslide anyway 😭 I hope the FL Dem Party can get their shit together because Charlie Crist was not it. Gillum at least got close to winning.
You can disagree with Kyle's opinions, but i think he is way more genuine than most people in politics on youtube.
He’s literally married to one of the most obvious pseudo-Left Grifters since Tulsi. How can he be genuine ??
He definitely is, but unfortunately, most of the online left (and I REALLY mean most) is cancerous - including TH-camrs- so he doesn’t have particularly strong competition. 😄 But with that being said, yes, I’ve never gotten the feeling that he’s bullsh-tting or being disingenuous, even when I occasionally disagree with him.
5:34 Biden didnt rip up the Iran agreement trump pulling out basically fucked our credibility in that space. Its doubtful that iran would have agreed especially not to the previous terms.
I started watching Kyle in 2012, but had enough of him around 2021 or so. He was constantly bashing AOC for being pragmatic. Idiot couldn't see the forest through the trees. Not to mention, so many of his other takes were just lazy.
Based Kyle
Hide third party threads.
Ignore third party posts.
Do not reply to third party posters.
I wish I'd followed this advice
Its funny because voting is such a tiny part of my life as someone who does the VERY BARE MINIMUM of real life activism and organizing (canvassing/ phone banking rarely) and when it comes to electoral politics at the national level, ive yet to hear any convincing argument against vote blue no matter who
The critical problem with a two party system is that if you accept the need to vote for the lesser evil no matter what, the two parties will and do become indistinguishable from one another. One of the main reasons Biden's presidency has been so good, relative to expectations, is that Sanders' primary insurgency spooked the party. Probably the most valuable skill voters in the US can possess is the ability to believe whole-heartedly in a candidate like Sanders, and then vote Democrat anyway when they lose.
Not at all. Party is influenced by who is in it. If the left had any brain cells, they have none, they would focus on changing the Democratic party instead of gatekeeping and sitting around with their thumb up their ass.
You’re so delusional it’s hilarious 😂
They are performing well as a reaction of how Fascist the GOP has become.
Dude undermines his own point right away when he mentions Georgia. My dude, Georgia was solid red until recently. If people there had your attitude they still would be.
it blows my mind, hearing this from Kyle. I'm a very long time listener of his and this shift for him is insane.
Like, I'm there for it. Go off Vanilla Ice king.
Edit: I also love watching how visibly uncomfortable the Vanguard looks like they get as this continues. This is their daddy, telling them this doesn't work. I don't think these guys are bad, but wow. This has to be a slap in the face to them.
Lol, say what you will about the Vanguard boys, but they would never think Kyle is their daddy haha. They disagree with him on fundamental issues
“Notice how Republicans NEVER SAY THIS!” So true. They have set the rules of engagement. To them every vote matters. It is also why they historically don’t fracture over internal policy quibbles like the Dem’s voter base does. They treat every election like it is life or death, they are way more likely to show up for midterms, and consequently their party is immensely over represented at state and federal levels.
Are we just going to forget about how he completely dismissed the harassment Ana Kasparian was receiving from disgusting Dore? That was enough for me to write him off as a giant coward
Ana Kasparian is currently mutating into a conservative reactionary.
He didn't though. He tried to be diplomatic, and failed disastrously. He sems to have finally come to his senses on Jimmy Dore, though.
@@hadronoftheseus8829 He did dismiss the matter because he wasn’t willing to forfeit his friendship with Dore despite the credible allegations about his behavior towards several women on the left.
@@eross21363Credible is not interchangeable unequivocal. While I thought the accusations were clearly the latter, Kuklinski mistook them for merely the former. You may not consider that terribly exculpatory, but it's a disinction worth drawing.
Yeah well since ana has turned fascist I really don't have sympathy for her
Their only argument I agree with... "Ranked choice voting is very important for 3rd party."
being in GA it was a pretty solid case in a swing state.
Sup fellow peach stater. Very true. Turn out is so damn important and not just giving up on places that seem to be safe red seats
@@thereallocke8065 As a fellow Georgian, I agree. What the man-bun doesn't seem to understand also, is that the GOP will see a 5 point win as an excuse to be as horrible as possible and that a 1 point win completely changes their politics.
I'd really like to see their reasoning as to why felons can't have guns but demostic abusers can. I swear if smoking weed can ban you from a gun but beating your girlfriend cant that would legitimately be the most America brained shit ever.
Because they are innocent until proven guilty. A felon has gone to trial. A retraining order is not a trial.
Vaush is 100% correct
About kids
If it says anything about Kyle, his perspectives have greatly influenced me, and I'm now a loyal Vaushite. He's been honest and consistent for ... it may be 10 years now that ive been watching S.T, I feel old af lol.
28:42 I think your confusing Kyle being genuine with integrity/principled, it is a virtue but differs. Someone principaled would not skip voting in 2020.
*"Never Give & Up Never Surrender! Or Tyranny Will Divide & Conquer!"*
I'm Canadian🇨🇦; wish I could vote Biden all the way! The more the MAGAs fling tantrums around the more intense my support. Yes Kyle, he is more & more a powerhouse.
Your one is better
@@TraFClubNo definitely not
@CharlesLeSorcier why?
@@TraFClub Might be a grass is greener situation but I legitimately think Biden and the democratic party in America are more ideologically progressive than the Liberals in Canada. Also the current administration in Canada is currently torching their reputation with horrible and unpopular policy pushing the country to the right. Democrats in America have a strong chance of winning the next election. However, Canada is almost definitely getting a conservative government next and without term limits it could be for a long time...
Vaush isn't kidding about Nader, Gore, Bush, and the Bad Timeline. I lived through that shit. Every battle matters, gang. Let's not fuck this up. ✊
I'm an anarchist and I prefer biden over cornel west as president anytime.
A sane anarchist? Amazin'
I like a lot of things cornel west says but he went into this knowing he won't win.i don't think he wants to be president, he just wants more media attention. If he wanted to win he'd run as a democrat like Bernie did
Ew lifestylist anarchist cringe
It's because he's black, huh?
@@Khalkara Most anarchists are pretty sane
God I love Vaush. I've been saying everything is the lesser of multiple evils forever!
That’s good to hear cause I kinda fell out of secular talk when he didn’t vote in 2020 cause Biden supported the Iraq war like that’s the dumbest virtue signal
My first time watching Vaush. First impression is that I really like the fact-checking of Kyle’s litany of progressive Biden actions. And showing such a long segment on Kyle Kulinski. I’ve often thought that ALL media should do similar approaches-instead of just living inside their bubbles or doing lazy and worthless both-sides reporting.
Are used to be a small fan of Kyle’s, but multiple examples kept showing me that he had terrible viewpoints. The moment I pretty much lost. All respect for him was the debate he had about Ukraine with Wass. Literally almost everything he said was not only Terribly ill informed, but we’re just bad ideas. He seemed to have no concept that the civilized world should help a sovereign democracy defend itself against a fascist authoritarian Russian dictator ship as they illegally invaded in an unprovoked aggression. Instead, he seem to almost go down the Joe Rogan conspiracy theory ideas and Republican conspiracy ideas of thinking this is some type of war that America wants to push for profit, and other nonsense that you might hear on democracy now these days. I mean there were definitely other things he said on Ukraine as well that I don’t need the list here, but point being that I lost all respect for him and that debate.
Who is Wass? Was this an autocorrect error, or is there someone with that screen name?
@@hadronoftheseus8829 yeah, I was doing talk to text and didn’t bother going back and editing because I’m an idiot
10:20 People really think a Jill Stein or Cornel West presidency wouldn't have drone strikes.
Vaush based take on 3rd parties.
I’ve been a bit critical of Kulinski in the past, but sending many kudos for admitting his mistake.
Maybe I’ll start viewing him more.
I like the Green party in principle, but in practice, they're just the mirror of the Libertarian party, and as deeply unserious
They're also literally Russian assets. The Green party whose wholly fraudulent. Stein is a saboteur and West is a Muppet.
Saying Cornel west is a crank because he's not a politician is stupid as hell. All the activist of history are rolling over in their graves. I don't agree with everything he says but he truly cares about intersectionality and that's what matters
Needs to have the political chops to put those ideas into action tho
Georgia was a solidly red state until Biden entered the ring 😎
It had actually been trending blue for a while before 2020
Omg this guy talking about "safe states" doesn't fucking understand how math works. Voting for a third party candidate means fewer votes for the main party candidate that otherwise would have received that vote. If enough people do this, then it will in fact, impact the results of the election. This is literally 3rd grade arithmetic, bro. A+B=C
A democratic president is always going to be on the conservative side of the party because of southern democrats. Other than on some foreign policy things Biden has done just about everything he can legally do that progressives want him to do. Most of what Kyle said that Biden didn't do was legislation that really never had a chance. Pumping up the popular vote margin is rhetorically important and the DNC decides where to spend money based on the margin in different places.
I appreciate when they put guy fawkes masks in their backgrounds so I know what I’m about to get
7:10 Gross and lame. Not voting is cringe af.
cool and i'm still not doing it any time soon 👍
@@kingobama4305you seem really determined to tell everyone you're not voting
@@thereallocke8065 i am
@@kingobama4305 don't see what it helps beyond making you feel better
Gore also would have done a lot for climate change as president. He also would've been able to appoint at least one Supreme Court justice. We would be in a vastly different world if he would've won.
Honestly, it's quite sad that you Americans have to choose between lesser evils while in big part of Europe we can choose between greater goods, if you get what I mean. We still have problems, but none so structural and fundamental as this
Greater goods is a strong word. They all still suck but there is more variety. Though that can still be a problem from a certain point of view
You guys have a far right problem too, it's not all great.
@@michaelraymon111 I mean, you actually have some choice of which party will improve the areas you care about. There's still some weighing with the things you disagree on, but there's much more overlap
@@JonathanMandrake that what I said. There is more variety to what people can vote but that can also cause a problem.
@@Drkon6 And who's too blame for that? Who is at fault for all the instability south of Europe? Who promoted far right leaders to fend off communism? Which companies exploit Africa, playing big part in the refugee crisis? The answer is simple: The USA! We have to deal with the messes you created, so if anyone is to blame for us being unable to solve them without it resulting in other problems, it's the USA.
It's been a long time since I've watched Vaush after a number of pretty radical debates, but I'll definitely be checking in more going forward. He's very level headed and goal oriented in this segment.
My whole argument was it doesn't matter if Biden's progressive or not, the important thing is it gets rid of Bolsonaro in Brazil if he loses. I was right in that take. I think it was a good one.
I always had a good feeling about Secular Talk and always had a bad feeling about TYT. My gut was right.
obamna 🥺
bababooey
I'm in my 40s and remember when states like Florida and Ohio really were swing states. I also remember making the exact argument Gavin was making when I was younger. I ALSO remember Ross Perot's candidacy well.
The GOP exploited this attitude brilliantly. They made a decision back in the 80s to focus on taking more state legislatures and governorships. Down ballot elections are a thing, and when no one shows up because you've effectively encouraged them to be political nihilists, or they just show up to vote for a third party, over time, you can drastically shift a state's politics going that route, a route the Dems left completely open to the GOP. Those state representative and senatorial positions are much easier pickings, and once you have the state you can start easily fucking with things like voting districts that impact national elections.
Florida is about 37% GOP vs. 33% Dem among registered voters, but the house and senate there is 70% GOP. Does anyone want to argue that this hasn't had national implications? Florida isn't the only state like this either.
One of those two parties gave a shit about local elections. Unbelievably, the Dems still haven't figured this out and, rather than having a long game, still seem to put everything in on presidential elections while the GOP continues to give themselves a handicap via courts and state houses.
I get the idealism Gavin has, and I understand wanting to believe you have a part to play, that if you just hit that 5%, everything will start opening up. I believed in it so much I even presented a couple of peer-reviewed studies I did on the framing of third parties early in my academic career. It's a mirage though, and you ultimately are just being a useful idiot.
Well said
Didn't watch video, uncritical support
It would make sense in a proportional electoral system or even in a rank-choice voting... but with a first-past-the-post Vaush is 100% right here.
I legit grew so tired of Kyle's Biden bashing and it seeming like he was intent on never seeing any of the good, so I'm currently living for this heel turn
Well he advocated accelerationism, i.e. Trump winning, after Bernie lost the primary. He has repeatedly lied about it since. He can't come back from that imo.
It's hard to blame him for initially being so pessimistic - Kyle was alive to see Biden basically be a worse version of Joe Manchin. Biden's come around big time, though.
@@alvarovazquez525 No. A worse version of Manchin? Im slightly older than Kulinski and have been politically astute since before I was a teen. Do words not have meaning any more? Biden has always been pretty far left in the same way Republicans used to throw around "California Democrat" as code for Nancy Pelosi who was seen as far left once. But the window has shifted for the better around them. Manchin would be a conservative Democrat even by the standards of the 90s.
Vaush talking through the Yang bit on purpose lol. Had to replay a couple times.
bababooey
reminds me of what ive heard before that an imperfect ally is not the same thing as an enemy, a fact that a lot of people forget or ignore vut that is crutial
At this point, it’s vote blue no matter who.
I don't agree with that either. That is just as dangerous as blindly voting for Republicans.
God you people are worms, we have all the tools for a left wing party to be elected yet we still go for neoliberal ideologies since that's all you people want
@@belkyhernandez8281 in normal times, yes. In today's time? I'm just being realistic--if you want to avoid full blown fascism, or at least stall it for as long as possible, voting blue is the only viable option. Voting red simply accelerates the apocalypse at this point (on climate change alone)
@@KyleConnors413 The issue I have is blindly voting based on party. The easiest thing to do when enough people have that mentality is to take a blue label and then win office. You would still end up with fascist. One should always do their due diligence.
Parliamentary system has nothing to do with coalitions. It's the voting system. The reason why the UK has had some coalitions is because our third party is marginally strong at the local & state/regional government. But it has caused the permanent splitting of the non Conservative vote & handed easy victories to the Conservative Party since 1945.
Omg this take is so bad for why ppl should vote for Cornell West.
Third parties are viable in America at EVERY SINGLE LEVEL below the Presidency. The problem isn’t third party viability. It is the lack of seriousness of our third parties that is the problem
Yeah there's totally room for a third party to get seats at the state level or even in congress. Still a pretty up hill battle but it's doable if the party cared to put in the work. Find a district that isn't at risk of going red that you can try other things at so people aren't as worried about spoilers. Since most state level offices and congtessional have runoff if there isn't a solid enough lead for the top candidate its less risky.