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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 31 ก.ค. 2024
- Good ending unlocked fortunately! :)
The two devs talked it out, but what do you think? Does this count as stolen?
Here are the twitter pages of both devs:
x.com/_hacktic
x.com/KenneyNL
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These games definitely look identical... Same background, same viewpoint, same models, same vibes, and similar UI. I can definitely understand that no one owns a concept or a genre, however, these two are way too similar to say it wasn't heavily, heavily inspired. I feel a bit bad for the dev who clearly likes Kenny's work, but at the same time, taking this much from someone else's game feels like it borders on plagiarism.
fr
i agree 100% with what u said!
I wouldn't be so quick to judge. Many of the elements what kat pointed out as too similar to kenney's game also exist in hacktic's first released game, Taking Root, which started development over a year ago, before Kenney released his demo for makeRoom. The rounded rectangular UI, the bounce animation with white dust, pastel low poly look. Flora Corner is essentially a refinement of that same game. It is likely that the redesign is heavily inspired by Kenney's game, but it's also not as much of leap as people think that someone can independently arrive at very similar design choice, as many of the changes made from Taking Root to Flora Corner is fairly intuitive, like a more varied background with gradation, a fixed isometric camera view, simplified UI...etc. The background is really only that's very blatantly similar while not being extremely generic
This is all the more reason why Kenney hashing this out in the public forum is damaging to original dev. Just look at the comments for this video. His game is already labeled a copy, even though he's made a very similar game and concept prior to Kenney revealing his game. This is a dev that writes his own code, hired artist for his game assets, and is passionate about the craft, and sight unseen people will label him as a plagiarist. You can say all publicity is good publicity, but when he release the game whenever down the line, all the nuance will be lost. Kenney saying that the games are unique to each other after fairly basic change will be forgotten. All that will pop up in a google search are headline painting him as the guilty party of committing a "rip-off"
I agree with you said
The author of that reddit thread is an AIbro, and Kenney has been very vocally anti generative AI, so some bias might exist there.
Ew, that makes that poster so much worse.
That makes sense. I wonder how these Pro-AI people are going to react when AI takes over their jobs?
@@cgilbert210 i wish it does so that they will actually shut up about being so pro-ai.
ooh
@@cgilbert210 fr
The guy who made the Reddit post is active on the "DefendingAI" subreddit, if you want to know where his priorities lie.
Well, that depends if AI saving people from cancer but ai can not be saved from their horrible hands
@NitwitsWorld That reminds of the AI that was made to identify bread and ended up being used for cancer research
@@genericname2747 mmhmm
There's a line between similar games and copy-pasted games... Yes, this is not a completely original and new concept.
It's not about using free assets or sound packs. It's the fact that everything is visually and mechanically the same.
People can say "no one owns a game mechanic, and idea, a visual style or a genre", but when ALL OF THOSE are the same, it's sus af and you will be called out on it.
exatcly! some details alone is not plagiarism, but when you take all of the details thogether, you can tell it is
As a game developer, I think the most obvious part of Flora copying Kenney's work is the background. The rest of the game's art style fits within the common cozy game aesthetic. There's a thing called 'reskinning' in game development, a common practice among mobile indie studios. It involves heavily referencing a successful game's creative direction, replacing models, assets, and adding minimal new features.
I can see why some gamedevs think Kenney overreacted. Usually, this isn't a huge issue because most premium games make most of their sales in the first month. So, a reskin in a premium market usually won't affect the original game's sales. The problem is Kenney's game isn't released yet, and Flora is becoming a direct competitor. There's even a chance the reskin will come out first. I'd be pissed too if someone made a 1:1 copy of my unreleased game demo.
the culture of "make a quick buck out of this" is ruining game development
There's "nobody owns a game mechanic, an idea, a visual style or a genre," and then there's "If you put screenshots from two games next to each other without context, people would think they were from the same game." (Edit: alternatively: "If you show people footage from both games without context, they would think they were the same game, maybe with different graphics settings.)
When you're guilty of the second one, that's absolutely plagiarism.
Tbh...The games look like they were made by the same Dev. Kenny was not the only one who took noice of that. Games can be simple and in the same space without looking and sounding THAT similar.
the people on reddit twisting kenneys words and actions trying to make him out to be a bully while pretending to be too dumb to see all the similarities piling up are the real bullies. and its just strengtgened by the fact that they immediately jumped to call kenneys art all of these awful things.
I just hate when people take the drama and add their biased twist to it to generate hate onto someone they don’t like, but I’m happy Kenny and Flora worked it out ❤
free game assets are there to help a dev create a game that they may not have the skills to make models for, and instead focus more on the game design and feel of the game, while having the assets ready when they need them. Free assets shouldn't be a free pass to directly copy someone else's game to the tea. I made a diorama game with the same decoration concepts (granted i made my own assets), but I still didn't just make copy every diorama ever made, i still added my own twist on it. (like adding a giant beetle friend haha). but yeah like.. to me free assets doesn't mean you are welcome to plagiarise. (i have some background in game design teaching too, and it was very obvious to see when students straight up copied games and their assets(even if it was free) in the exact same way the OG creator did. it's not a good practice)
for example It's expected of you as a student, to use a scholars work as reference to back up your arguments. But you don't straight up take the scholars work and try to pass it off as your own, even if you are both talking about the same thing. You're still stealing.
that's all I have to say about that.
I can barely draw a stickman, and yet Kat has me watching videos about art drama every mfn day lol
hehe glad u like it :3
I downloaded Kenny’s game demo to see what’s up and it’s pretty good and expansive, especially for only a demo. Wishlisted it
Idk a lot of these room deco games are so samey its hard for me to say. I think Kenney's game looks much more polished though.
Yeah. It is like a thin ice between: Generic concept // Looks like diferent stages of production of the same game
@@Cris-ef2qb For sure! But it seems like the actual people involved don't have beef so thats good
I write free open source software, and I once had someone steal and rebrand my software. They use reddit bots to promote it like crazy, and also charging money for it. They also did not include any of the legally required attributions to my source code or any of the 3rd party libraries/assets. It felt absolutely awful and almost made me want to quit writing free software. Stealing other's work is disgusting.
Reminds me about the crypto game Vage Strike being such a bad game that it’s entire source code and multiplayer server will completely stolen from a small game called Red Eclipse.
This wasn't bullying. You don't get to freely steal stuff, period. Stealing is stealing. You cannot convince me this was anything other than blatantly copying, it just isnt. No, Kenny doesnt own any individual elements or ideas, and doesnt claim to. But how much of a tool does it make you and your game look when you happen to make an almost 1:1 identical game? This is why they caught flack, and it was deserved. Learn from this and be better
Talk about how Moonfrost turns out to be an NFT game, when that aspect of the game was never advertised at first and fooled people into thinking it's another cozy farming game.
ooo ty for this! im going to japan soon and need content to fill up the 2-3 weeks im gone, will probably do a piece on that game for when im away!
@@katliente Ay, no prob! Also it seems like while on their twitter bio they don't say they have crypto/nft, they def advertised it to that community. Like whenever they do livestream for the game, it's always those ppl in that community that join. Not to mention the logo looks like Moonlight Peak, an actual cozy game where you're a vampire who farms.
This feels like traced art
fr
True
Oh no that's horrible for Kenny, their game looks sooooo good
its 1 person
@@OwnedByChristianthey were using they as a neutral pronoun not as plural I believe
@@starvingartist733 wait what?
@@OwnedByChristian they/them is a perfectly viable singular pronoun to use if you dont know person's gender, or if they identify with these terms, fyi
@@SorarikoMotone really? You guys all that woke? It is an male that identifies as male so just He nothing else
This kind of idlesim room maker isn't a unique idea....but the faded backgrounds with very slight elements? The way the sound effects click? Nah that is 100% plagerism
Edit: To further, everything is kind of too similar, I have been watching and followin pixebo make their pixel idlesim room maker and it's CRAZY good. They bring something entirely unique to the table with animated assets and making their 2D elements into 3D so they can have a CRAZY good placement system. I am so excited for it to come out.
I would never look at that and makeroom and call them plagerism because they are both unique in ways. Floral Corner looks WAY too similar to MakeRoom to be unique. That's the problem, it's exactly what she said, they are too similar in too many ways to be a coincidence
omgg side note im a huge fan of pixebo and their art is sooo good!
@@katliente YEEEESSSSS I LOVE THEIR STUFD
Many game dev tutorial channels suggest to pick a well known game and then "remake that game with a twist". Or pick 2 games and combine them. I feel like the creator of that flora game took that advice to the heart and instead of making something similar with a twist they were wanting to make same exact game tiny twist with plants. When these other content creators give that advice i don't think they meant this - i feel like they still wanted you to create unique UI, have your own art style and maybe even have more of a purpose (like a story, high score system, achievement or something in this level) or to add something else that makes you stand out. I feel like this dev has watched same or similar channels many of us beginner game devs have and misunderstood what was said.
if you take too much inspiration from someone then you lose your own personality. hopefully hacktic will find a way to better bring their own unique touch and creativity on display.
Wait, "didn't play game" and also "taking inspiration"?
This type of AI games steal only attract player for a small amount of time. But it being called as "games" is already a compliment
It's sad how great developer go unoticed, i think Elon Musk only promote AI-made stuff 😔
Kenny is Right. Hacktic agreed to change. At the end of the day, the problem is solved.
LOL only Twitter can twist this and victim-shame the original creator.
Technically the shaming happened on Reddit. Funnily things on Twitter seemed pretty civil.
It was on Reddit, though. A bit in denial of the idea that Reddit can be just as horrible, eh?
@@arcanine_enjoyer nah sometimes reddit can be worse which is saying a lot.
@@pelekinesis1337 My mistake. Jumped to conclusions on my end.
For some reason, there's way too many people who think that if they go through the motions of building/drawing/modeling/etc something themself, that the result of the thing is THEIRS.
They literally seem to think that art is literally JUST the dirty work of making the finished product- the in-between doesn't matter.
They're the kind of people who don't see the difference between hand crafted work and dropshipping, or hand painted art and AI.
(Not that there's not advantaged to "soulless" production methods, but there's a difference to be valued, and that generates the basis from which derivative works... you know, derive.
When we look at if something is copying or not, we look at multiple elements. It's like how you can't copyright a single element but you can copyright a lot of elements when put together in a specific way. In this case, the game looks almost identical, the art style, the camera, the room, the mechanics, the back ground, even the positioning of the objects to some degree, the music, the feel, the little bounce, the Ui looks similliar too if you were to give me these two games, I would have thought that both were the same game, just different versions. So it's pretty laughable to me that people would bash Kenny and try to use the excuse he doesn't own the original concept of something in his game when we're looking at multiple things at once. Makes them look pretty dumb and short sighted to me honestly because they can only think about one thing at a time
Obviously, the idea of a room decorating sim isn’t anything new, but these two are so similar it’s very clear one was heavily, heavily inspired by the other. From the comments it seems that the person who made the Reddit post is against Kenny as they’ve made their stance against AI very clear (based). Glad the two creators where able to work something out, and definitely gonna check out the demo for MakeRoom
it’s giving SmolLola “no one owns the concept of an orca vtuber” “the colors are different” “i have fins on my legs, the silhouettes are different”- like bro. it’s not bullying. it’s an astute observation
Both of those games look like a game I play on my iPad called 'Rooms' but those two are more soft than 'Rooms' and 'Rooms' has a type of social media on the app so you can see other people's room creations, so 'MakeRoom' might've been based off of 'Rooms' and 'Floral Corner' then just took the concept of 'MakeRoom'
omg i love rooms i was playing it while watching this video
Honestly that "callout" reddit post has me losing braincells
Kenny was a lot nicer than i would have! Shame that his kindness and generosity was taken advtange of and it's awful that people have galls to call him a bully just because he has a larger following and that somehow means he can't call out shitty behavior. I do not see where this inspiration is cuz its just blatant copy and the changes they did make was so minimal that gameplay and artstyle is still largely Kenny's work. Im glad that they were able to work things out and hopefully Flora Corner game devs have actually learned their lesson.
This is like a game named Decor Life that came out in 2022. There's also Home Decor.
All these games just look alike to me.
Ngl you've opened my eyes on being a bigger creator online getting stuck between a rock and a hard place as you said. People copying other people's work need to be called out but if it's a small creator copying a larger creator, it's seen as punching up, everyone roots for the underdog & are quick to defend the smaller creator (including me) but sometimes we gotta realize that larger creators are also people with feelings & probably has encountered repetitive issues like this.
I'm guessing the best solution is the original game devs or artists giving tips for the copycats how to make their game different (although that has to fully come from the copycats themselves)
I had to check out the new art direction with Floral Corner, and it looks amazing! The background environment looks super nice!
There’s a lot of match 3 games but they have different styles, music, themes…etc. These two games look so identical, you would assume it was a sequel.
gotta be honest, whenever i see a similar game, i cant classify either one as a ripoff of another
after project arrythmia and JSaB, i learnt that people sometimes just have simiar ideas, and you cant just go in guns blazing with accusations
just research deeper before bullying anyone
imagine he adds plant watering mechanics to his game.
Hey, I play the game “Rooms” on mobile and it is the exact same but more HQ and broader in assets, editing, and you can make anything with it. Was this game before KenneyNL? It is not the same as MakeRoom on Windows. In my opinion it is a little better and I have played it for a few months.
Not saying Kenney’s game is bad, I still like it and it looks great. But I am unsure if Rooms outdates his game or not as it is not complex and detailed.
I was right. It does outdate Kenneys because his isnt even out yet. Kenney’s game isnt unique in itself either.
Isometric building games aren't "unqiue", but Rooms and Make Room have entirely different styles (Rooms is created with Voxels and as you said is way more expansive than Make Room is meant to be).
The issue is that Flora Corner is an almost 1 to 1 copy of Make Room, from the backgrounds and music to the UI and sound effects. The isometric 3D style isn't the issue, and the people on Reddit pretending like that's why Kenney is upset is just baffling.
IMO, as the author of the original reddit thread is pro-ai generated art (something Kenney has been outspoken against), it seems like they're stirring up trouble due to a personal vendetta. They criticize Kenney for sending a "hate mob" at an indie artist and in the same breath say he's ingenuine for promoting their game after they made changes.
Did some googling and it appears that Rooms on iOS was first with reviews on the App Store from at least November of 2023 (if not farther back), while Make room didn’t have a demo out until December 15, 2023 (according to an ig post by Kenney that showed up). However, the two have a number of differences in style and functionality, so in my inexpert opinion it just seems like a case of similar ideas rather than plagiarism.
Wake up the queen has postedddd
This guy didnt invent the concept of an isometric room decorating game. Pewdiepie did that long before
shes on the Path to becoming next Coffezila
This shit is why I deleted my reddit account, because even in the "less toxic" subreddits can be extremely bad faith and twist anything anyone says or does into them being a horrible person. You could have perfectly reasonable and well articulated response and people just ignoring everything you said.
yeah i would think they were the same gmes but maybe with different settings for the decoration drops
Don´t copy my homework to blatently. The homework:
both parties have their reasons. I thin kenney took it a little too far.
this has been a forever long problem lol someone makes a good/popular game or genre, before a game even releases there's some trashy, most like IAP mobile app dupe immediately on an app store
Similar aesthetics can be overlooked a little bit, but... yeah, the two are a bit too similar. They could have both reached the same ideas independently or gotten inspiration from the same things, but if you say one of them got inspiration from the other, I wouldn't doubt it much either with how similar the two are
I'm not too sure how much I would be bothered by it all, aside from the drama of "people copying each other" and being called knockoffs of each other being more than a little annoying. Personally? I'm not interested in either game, so... I'm going to just stay out of the whole thing since it's rather uninteresting for me. It's nice that they've more or less resolved their differences, but... you know... situation kinda sucks to have happened in the first place
phone games copieng each other seems normal
Watching this video on the side and had really hard time to know, which game was talked about most of the time, that's how similar they are
I dont know, im not sure that the flora game dev ever even saw Kenny's game before they made theirs. The truth is that Make Room is already extremely generic, using the same sounds and aesthetics that you find everywhere in that genre. Its a simple genre and you could just as easily go find an older game to compare with Kenny's and say he stole from that. It wouldn't catch as much traction though because kenny has more clout.
Imagine drawing something for 1 year, to see another people tracing it and selling it... That how I thing this case
Can't you do this for just about any game? Just because someone made the first version of it doesn't mean a second can't happen?
Ah, yes. More TEA
11:59 the german Bild-newspaper in one go
"this person is not the victim but the bully".
I cant blame kenny when i first saw the other game i immediately said wow thats stolen
omg I just noticed the cat in your mic, I really like it
The games is too identical. Even down to the color palette and background. Im on khenny for this.
Whoever thats being so loud and complaining about khenny obviously are not artist so they cant judge it to the miniscule level a artist can to judge which one is the right in this.
check chill corner its just like this game too
reddit post was definitley biased, sad it has 1.1k upvotes
Both Kenney and the reddit thread have biases and points.
Did FloraCorner copy the style of MakeRoom? Yes. Did it copy the concept of Make Room? No, you can't copy something that's practically a small genre. So did Haptic copy Kenney's game? It's hard to say. Like was noted, plagiarism is the combination of many small details, and a game is more than its graphics. This is also where I feel the disconnect is. Many of the people here, including myself, are artists. The first thing we think about is the art. But that reddit page is gamedev. And in game development, the art should always be secondary to the gameplay. And the gameplay of the alleged copy cannot be measured because you cannot play the game. Therefore, in their minds at least, you can't say that Hacktic copied the game if there is no game yet.
But the most important question, is this: Was Kenney's reaction resonable? Was the copying so egregious that it had to be talked about on Kenney's main Twitter page with 100k followers without even contacting the guy behind FloraCorner first? And I would say no, definitely not. Kenney has every reason to be upset, but he's a large creator. If he says "this guy stole from me", most people will believe him and not care for the details. Kenney could've at least tried to talk to the guy and ask him to change the graphics. The game isn't out yet, so it's still in development, things could change and most would be none the wiser. This entire matter could've been handled quietly and in private to the betterment of both parties, I feel.
I think this is more of people saying
“You don’t have to reinvent the will make what you like”
Yes that’s good but people should try to do something new if not MORE! All this is is Lofi home maker it’s to simple
As time goes on this is going to be more and more of a problem because cozy also means SAFE as in what you know
( I was multitasking so I may have missed details) From how Flora Corner explained it to be a copy of a game from another dev and to use the same or very similar assets is a little salty. I can understand a passion project for learning and rebuilding the game for your own education but to sell it in competition with the owner is kinda annoying. It is nice how Kenny and Flora Corner worked past this and made changes and came to a comfortable change but yeah the initial game was a little sus imo
WEVE BEEN FED😝😝😝
I COULD make assets too and put a price on it but i feel nobody would buy them - might be projection because am a huge cheapskate - but that is my feeling
naw this is completely stolen, ripped off lazy work. Poor dude has all his stuff stolen, tragic how people will turn it around on him or call him the thief
So then would you say Kenny stole from Furnish Master and Rooms?
“I never played it” going to “taking inspiration” is like.. biggest damn red flag of “yeah I definitely looked at the game and copied it but I won’t officially say so to save my ass”
Also awkward when people use literally the dev’s free assets 🥴😅 Like… you use assets and then you also decide to just copy the whole game? Oof.
If it would have been a bit different ok, but it looks and feels like the same game without the "watering plant mechanic". When I first saw it I thought kenny was on copium, but no, this looks as much of a ripoff as it possibly can. Ive used a lot of kennys assets as place holders in the past and i can only praise him for what he did for my progression in game development, I hope defending himself doesnt shine too much of a negative light on him.
Ironically, the watering plant mechanic probably came first. Hacktic's first released game is called "Taking Root", which is about taking care of plants and decorating rooms. It has a lot of the same elements that Kat is point out as similar to Kenney's game, bouncing animation, white dust upon placement, sounds from the same sound pack, rounded square UI, pastel low-poly look...etc. Main difference being using a free camera and a plain white back ground. Hacktic started working on that game over a year ago, before Kenney release his demo for MakeRoom. Flora Corner is just a refinement of Taking Root, where Hacktic simplified the mechanics and fixed the camera. You can tell he/she is using the same animation and sound from Taking Root, because that's what indie devs do to save time
As an outsider, who doesn't know these games... I would think it's under the same title. ._.
Please don’t steal
I don’t see there the same game that’s because the UI is different. Looking at it carefully, I could say the Flora Corner game has a very simple UI design layout, not only that but the item icon box does match the background of its color with a transparent color and if you move your mouse cursor to the item, it will appear A small window of the item in a clear border transparent and I believe a light version of the color of the background of it which does make it more, a square with smooth round, similar as a mobile app design. meanwhile. Make Room UI is more detailed and separate. the item icon box has a white background which is the same when the mouse cursor, moves to the item a window appears with a white background, but the design of it is like an oval square. these are the only things I could describe as very different from each other. I could say maybe the art is inspiration but everything else it’s very questionable.
my takeaway from this situation is that creators online are completely entitled to defend the integrity of their own artwork and they're allowed to be upset if there is someone imitating them and even making a profit off of their imitation of the og artwork. there is enough visual evidence in the similarities of small details (e.g. the same sound effects, the same UI design, the same backgrounds) to be able to say it's fact that 'flora corner' is heavily inspired by 'make room'. the point isn't that kenneynl is claiming to own the concept of cozy room decorating sims and is offended that someone else stepped into the ring - the point is that imitation may be a form of flattery but you have to make money by your own merit.
yeah you can argue that a 'big online artist' like kenney should have just DM'd hacktic, but in this case i am glad that people got to see them settle things publicly. note that kenney didn't tell the other creator to stop making their game. this is the best case scenario of two creators with the same idea for an indie game settling things out peacefully, and now they can respectfully continue to develop their own games. anything else against kenney is just other people who aren't involved reading too much out of this situation imo
I don’t care if you have 10 followers or 10 billion followers, NO ONE has the right to steal from you. It’s just wrong.
woo new video
Make room looks better.
Honestly this is the first drama where i disagree with katliente. all i will say is unless someone brings proof he stole the assets i don't want to blindly hate based on something subjective, as the genre seems to specific to really have much uniquenesd but im not into the genre so i can be wrong :/ and if i am i will own up to it but till then this is my stance.
How to play makeroom/flora corner on iPad for free?
Oof.
Any honeast person know that game is just a quick cheap rip off to gain some quick bucks
stepped over the line with taking inspiration... It's honestly so annoying how people don't understand that straight up copying from one source is not inspiration.
I heavily disagree with how Kenney's handled it. Kenney is a well known and respected creator for the Indie space, so his words carry weight. When he accuse someone with plagiarism publicly, most people would not bother to dig further. So never mind that the the game mechanics are different(Haktic's game is about raising plants, Kenney's game is focused on interior decoration),or that the assets are original and not Kenney, or if you search tutorial on how create lowpoly isometric rooms, you see a bunch that generally use very similar color palettes and style, or that the sounds came from a sold pack that anyone can use. The context stopped mattering to most people when that first tweet accusing Hacktic of plagiarism goes out, because that first impression now weighs heavily on most people entering the discourse. It is the burden of those in power to use their power carefully and with consideration. Damage control isn't nearly as effective as not inflicting damage in the first place.
This indie dev's reputation took an irreparable hit before he/she can even offer up an explanation to the only person that really needs an explanation, which is Kenney. Before anyone even gets to play the game, this person has already been labeled, a fraud, a plagiarist, an AI cash grabber. It sucks to have your art "copied" (a grey area in this particular case), but what also suck is to have your creation judged sight unseen. Hacktic's already made a game about raising plants, it's clear that one of his/her dream is to make a good game about raising plants, and now without anyone even played it, it's already been associated as a "copy" of Kenney's game. All of it can probably be solved with just a private conversation
its a very grey area, every asset ive clicked on on his site is released under CC0.
12:10 this comments here is so rude wtf, calling kennys game "generic, bland, contrived, taken from other games" just because its based on decorating, then not aknowledge the fact the other person literally stole the game??
They both look like Unpacking
Oh, it was stolen alright, but by Kenney, from a game that's already out, Furnish Master, as well as rooms xyz.
To be completely honest I really don't see a problem here. If someone wants to make the same game you made, but with different assets, that's completely fine. The reality is that you indeed do not own game mechanics, visual styles, game feels, etc. All you own are the assets that you make, which fall under your copyright. Everything else doesn't matter.
Obviously this Flora game is a ripoff, but that is fine.
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bro 💀
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