ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 ต.ค. 2024
- *UPDATE*
I talked with both Heika and Smore, and realized I missed one message sent between them: gyazo.com/883f... in which Heika clarified they only wanted a full body model + 3 expressions (so no rig). And, in Smore's Vgen, it is listed at the top of this screenshot (gyazo.com/9b40...) that there would be NO rig. So, there was communication between them regarding there being NO rig. And, it was clarified that Heika does have the model and did receive a $150 partial refund, which in my opinion is generous!
I've also been told there's been DMs harassing Smore, which I don't think is appropriate whatsoever. Everyone has their opinions, but going out of your way to terrorize people's DMs with yours is not appropriate. I again truly wish Smore can continue receiving commissions, and Heika has the model they want!
===
It's honestly insane how this situation spiraled out of hand due to a few misunderstandings ;-; Again, please don't send hate to either creator and I truly hope the artist can still have a successful business, and the vtuber gets the model they wanted
If you want to watch me cover these news live, check me out on Twitch! I stream mon, wed, sat at 7pm pst!
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***UPDATE***
I talked with both Heika and Smore, and realized I didn't mention one message sent between them: gyazo.com/883f8f8181341cd9c1ae55298ddac7cf in which Heika clarified they only wanted a full body model + 3 expressions (so no rig). And, in Smore's Vgen, it is listed at the top of this screenshot (gyazo.com/9b40ee67e581bb633dc029780775d3fb) that there would be NO rig. So, there was communication between them regarding there being NO rig. And, it was clarified that Heika does have the model and did receive a $150 partial refund, which in my opinion is generous!
I've also been told there's been DMs harassing Smore, which I don't think is appropriate whatsoever. Everyone has their opinions, but going out of your way to terrorize people's DMs with yours is not appropriate. I again truly wish Smore can continue receiving commissions, and Heika has the model they want!
Thank you for this update
Wait!!! People are harassing S’more!?! Oh heck no!!! That is not cool!!!
They're harassing Heika too
i think the whole thing really was just bad communication, people are make assumptions because it kind of made it look borderline scammy.
22:50 its not a fox girl it's a dog and it's buffpup vtuber
Im my experience as a Vtuber, its best to hold off on any concrete scheduling until you receive or are very close to receiving the product. In scheduling a debut before you even have or have paid for the model is extremely risky in my opinion. Sucks for both parties, definitely should have had better communication...
Personally, I wait for my live 2D model to be completed and rigged before I decide when I debut (which I did). To me, that is kind of like common sense, but I know that not everyone shares the same common sense.
? did she not show us the artist’s pov? There was amazing communication on her end. She was transparent about everything.
Yeah, there was actually pretty good communication. Issue is the whole scheduling things before they are finished portion. I had one commission that I was struggling with before where the other person did the same mistake of... not even checking progress and scheduling things, all while not comminicating what the needed precisely by what date. They ended up canceling, and I passed over whatever I had for whoever to finish. There were some negative feelings left over, but I was properly paid for whatever work I did, so there are no grudges from my end. I do feel a bit bad for giving them incomplete work that isn't of satisfactory quality though
@@Phionney the artist wasnt aware they wanted rigging, although they did check it on the website(so artist assume she didnt want it and com person didnt mention it and they both assumed), so it was both sides on that part. in the end- it wouldve been better if the person that com her just didnt plan an even before the model is even done so they couldve talked about it
its silly to go on twitter abt it tho- instead of just talk and being mature
Same here, I scheduled before my artist was done and I was completely in the wrong but I was very new to ordering art and the Vtuber community so I didn't know.
I dont like the fact that people are ignoring the part where the artist said "I had to redo the whole hair" like... thats a lot of work, that was probably done twice because the commissioner changed their mind halfway. That right there is the value of the refund she offered back by itself since the hair covers 50% of the characters space. This sounds like the commissioner played nice with the artist to keep asking for changes and get what they wanted, and is now revealing her true colors to try to get the character for free, thats scammy behavior...
Idk....I get your point....bu I don think she actually was jus fully malicious...it seems like they jus miscommunicated an eventually heika was jus over the whole thing an jus wanted a refund for the problems the failure on the other side caused, don get me wrong shes not out of fault bu I think it's a thing of some miscommunication mainly an thas it
I was shocked when haika said "Above all, the model doesn't look like the character" 😮 While she confirm every changes made and saw the whole process? I wouldn't even make that much changes for free! She's the commissioner, it was her character, if the artist's artstyle couldn't produce the intended result she had in mind she should have hrabbed that full refund and left. Instead she made the artist changed up and fix so many things, approved it all, then just say "It just doesn't look like my character"
It's more like she got frustriatiat at the end rather then malicious. You really want it at that time and you believe that artist will deliver cause if you refund then you have to try with another artist and it's going to take more time so I guess she kind of just wished to get it finished.
tbh I think that the artist send TOO MUCH art for the commisioner, like the amount of reviews you can get should be stated in TOS
@@eveningabused5123 she asked for the changes only for at the end say it didnt look at all like what she ordered, thats malicious in my opinion. If someone comes to me with a reference for a character, but they demand that I change the hands, the hair and several things as we go, just to tell me at the end it doesnt look like the character, I would feel quite tricked because they asked for the changes to begin with and made me waste my time, plus asking for a full refund now because of their own choices
Guys.... the client clearly tried to rip off the artist. They saw the chance of multiple small complaints and piled it up to a full refund for this. This works in customer service because the company can afford to lose money, but this tactic is not transferrable to individual artists. Hell. No.
I agree I thought this was super malicious and manipulative on the client's end....
"I don't like it isn't a valid reason" is perfectly reasonable imho the reason should be "I don't like it because I feel that the quality doesn't match the images in your portfolio and there is issues here, here and here" you add more to it and it's fine but you can't just say "I don't like it" when the creator has communicated with you the entire time and you approved it. People do it to me all the fucking time, usually younger people. I will send images the entire way through they approve then at the last step they pretend they dnt like it because they want a refund. It's a common form of scam in the art community in my experience.
Hearing the client constantly changing items on the model also makes it clear why it was late.
700 for that pretty a model is actually crazy.
you would NOT catch me complaining about that . . .
For some countries in EU 700 is like live for month include food, house payment etc :)
@@flopa469I know but it’s still cheap for a vtuber model. A lot of artists even German artist want 2800$ for Vtuber model (art only)
@@flopa469if you look at other prices for models, 700 is pretty good. This has nothing to do with other countries.
@@flopa469 That makes sense, but in this industry, payment for a high quality vtuber model is around 2000 dollars. It's more affordable than other options in the industry.
Believe what you want but models like these are not worth $2000, especially the ones with badly rigged faces and mouths.
Why did she schedule plans before the product was finished? She should not have done that, because that adds more pressure to the artist. Then she complains that there is so many mistakes... Like hello, you're the one who rushed the artist. As a vtuber, don't make plans that aren't concrete!
Not to mention, uh... What was she using before? Lol. Just use that. Or did she literally have zero brand or audience? Sounds like bad business sense.
Its also not the artists concern that the other person made plans. The only concern the artist has is the deadline.
exactly- feels like it should be common to wait til after- or at least model almost done
I'm not complain when I comment this, as Heika should have withheld a scheduled date until close to the arts completion or for a month or two after the scheduled date due to pushback incidents such as personal problems with the artist. However I get why she set up plans. Generally, to get a bit more track and exposure, creators build suspense by posting about a new debut, a new model, outfit, brand, etc. and when doing so for a profit and with so much money. Listen, I'm poor, $20 is expensive imo. So while it's cheap vtuber wise, for small content creators it's a part of a necessary but seemingly expensive endeavor. Regardless, as such, it's mostly to bring in viewers and get more popularity. She still should have held off and whatnot, but I understand it. It's exciting to share good news too, to let people know your excitement, and to set up ideas and plans to move forward with your plans. Think moving house for example. In advance, you thinking of what your going do and how, but then incidents happen and you have to maybe select a house different from the one you originally loved, and everyone you told about now knows too, and you feel extremely disappointed about the turnout. Anyways, no hate on opinions or either the vtuber or artist.
I think the customer wanted a full refund to try and commission someone else. The artist was late but she fully communicated the progress in messages and also they both seemed to be on the same page til the dialogue went sour towards the end.
Yeah this is what came to my mind as well. Especially since they said they saved for a while to get this art and half refund had not covered to commission someone else but she was in too much hurry to save enough for another.
I don't understand the complaint about the model being late? The artist offered a refund, and Heika said they wanted to continue on with the commission. So having to cancel their debut is completely on them.
exactly, and why have a model made so close to ur debut?? that seems so unprof and a dumb thing to overlook. Heika could've chosen to communicate more but had to post everything on twt, then both them and the artist got backlash. I think the artist was scammed in this, out of money and time
It's actually kind of depressing thinking about someone in a bad spot mentally or health-wise, admitting defeat and offering a refund to make it right...
And instead were given "a time extension" which means even more of their time wasted and mental strained. That's like torture.
@@GiuseppeGaetanoSabatelli Don't forget Vtuber gets stress from all delays and if she changes artist she has to wait even longer it feels more like this was her last staw to get it on time. I don't understand why is it always Artist who are not at fault when she did mess up but yes commisioner messed up to anyways just becasue you suggested full refund does not mean you are off the hook from fault so ya pretty much both at fault on this one.
@@eveningabused5123 why on earth would you plan a debut without a finished product???
I'm sorry but $750 is SOOO cheap for a vtuber model, and for the artist to have been dealing with health issues at the time AND moving? AND for the commissioner to have set a time limit like that? Of COURSE there would be little errors in it. Those issues could have been fixed so incredibly easily too, the commissioner themself could have gone in and fixed most of those issues in no time at all, and for them to have stated they weren't even willing to pay somebody else to do touch-ups despite everything being agreed upon already about the omitted details and the fact they had multiple chances to refund, etc.? That is utterly ridiculous.
The part that screams malicious intent about Heika's actions the MOST though, is not any of the actions themselves. It's the way Heika switches up so quickly from being nice and working with Smore to being hostile and blatantly calling her work bad. If you ask me Smore was incredibly generous and calm for what she had to put up with, in NO way did Heika have the right to speak to her that way.
Honestly i feel like its the commissioner to be blamed (heika was it?) . She wasn't clear in what she wanted (like how not telling the artist explicitly that she wanted 5 fingers in the paw and while telling the artist to follow the concept art which had four, telling that they ommited details when haika herself told to omit them, nitpicking on the deadline being a DAY late and a lot of other things and then asking for a refund for an already cheap model...)
While the artist was very clear about everything and communicative with updates -(aside from the rig but seeing the issues i doubt it would have even gone into the rig stage with how aggressive heika was being later on)-
UPDATE: it turns out that there WAS communication regarding a rig and Heika didn't want one after all which was why the checkbox wasn't ticked. The pinned comment on this channel has more info
But then Heika goes on twitter to flame the artist like what and proceeds to omit context to paint the artist badly.
(Context like that the artist gave Heika TWO chances to receive a full refund but she denied both times. These are all adults aren't they? They should understand the weight of their words.
Plus not telling Vgen later that there was a problem with the app program and which is why the file was corrupted. I'm glad she mentioned it on twitter though at least. Even if Heika didn't intend to be malicious she should definitely provide proper context and be responsible with her wording. Otherwise this encourages other people on twitter to hate and badmouth the artist who didn't do anything wrong. And we all know just how toxic twitter is)
Well to me.. it sounds like she was trying to just get some sympathy while being a cheapskate.
Which is pretty scummy. If the artist wasn't well known or passive and non-confrontational, heika's lies would've ruined the artist's livelihood. No one would commission them anymore and they wouldn't get any money...tbh I don't see anything nice from the commissioner. Heika sounds two faced
I guess I'm feeling strongly for the artist more because i deal with commissioners myself and these kinds of commissioners are just so frustrating to deal with. If we give people like this the leeway by saying "oh but she's just so nice" or "its just communication problems/its a misunderstanding "
When money is involved there should not be any misunderstandings or indecisiveness whether you want a refund or not... only to ask for one AFTER all the time and sweat was put into finishing the end product (or when it's very near finished). You cannot ask for a refund let alone a full refund at that point.
I agree that the artist should further refine the terms and conditions (like you said only allowing one or two revisions at a set point) but it's really just common courtesy and sense to be clear in what you're asking because otherwise it'll cause confusion later on.
With regards to the commissioned art of the product the artist communicated well so i dont see the problem there.
Here is the bigger and actual problem, The commissioner (in this case Heika) will then just move onto another artist and there is a high chance that something like this may happen. Then they'll flame that artist on twitter...imagine what could happen. The next artist might not have the assertiveness to speak up. I'm more worried about the harm this may cause to other vtuber model artists
i personally think both were wrong and were just misunderstanding each other
i also personally think being late on deadlines a lot isnt a good look
@@LinUzumaki the artist communicated every time there was a deadline and if Heika wanted to opt out of the commission while offering a full refund
She declined
@@User25859 yeah she communicated but not in the right away, i want to point out that the person who commissioned it wanted a rig which was not communicated well because both sides assumed
@@User25859 Both were bad at communicating. Just because the artist communicated doesn't mean she's in the right. Let's not forget that the commissioner checked 2d Rigging yet the artist said that doesn't mean rigging after the whole ordeal. Artist should've communicated that as well as the commissioner should've made sure they selected the right option. And for such a long statement you made mistakes, artists was giving full refunds (Both were 200ish to the max (2nd offer) of 350) only full refund was at the beginning (but didnt know miscommunication would happen this much). And the artist should've stated for the price not every little thing would be perfect. Both are def at fault.
@@kstar881 you clearly didn't read my comment properly
unpopular opinion: i feel the only reason for this kind of switch up after so much communication is that she has realised she cant afford the commission and is trying to get the money back.
I think its anger/disappointment actually, from all the cancelations but idk
Apps like this hold the money so she already paid it
why are you spreading misinformation 💀
@@khun.aguero u cant fucking read i see
27:38 I can assure you it sounds as bad in spanish as you are reading it in english lol
What I could contextualize is that in Mexico and the rest of South America, 700$ is really expensive (ex; in my country you would need to not eat for 4 months in order to afford something like this) so Heika could very well not be properly educated in the matter and just assume that the price includes a full rig. I think is weird that the artist didn't say anything there.
Overall I think the first person that should have communicated better is the client. It's literally her responsibility as a client, to explain what she expects of this project and to assure the artist understands what she wants out of the references. Even doodling above of the picture helps, but she acted like the artist can read their mind or something.
He did say it 7:59 "Prices are here (screenshot here too) the *two under have rigging* and more artwork." To which she replied wanting only model.
So it was mentioned the rigging is in starter pack and she chose not to get it. And also ignored that rigging wasn't in the invoice.
@@Utrilus And still hard it is to say whether the client knew what was talked about, considering how they agreed to delays followed by delays, for a model that would not be ready for the stage. Sadly one must not assume a basic level of knowledge where apples and oranges haven't been involved, specially since they did check that they wanted rigging with the model but then the artist proposed the work scope after talking with the client but I didn't see rigging properly explained as an option only with the starter pack in spite of the option for rigging without the starter pack.
the customer ended up confused of what she was getting, pretty typical of first time customer and first time seller.
have in writing and outline if product does not have important part.
8:01 would have been good to have big red underlined letters that only the two most expensive choices have rigging, and explained it to customer that she understands, that models alone cannot be used straight for vtubing.
you could argue there was some small malice on the part of the artist, too, that even when talking extensively with the customer, and customer explaining she will start vtubing, the artist did not correct the customer, that oh no this cant be used for v-tubing, you need to select a different package.
a good customer service is asking what does the client want the product used for, and then advising the client when she is buying the wrong thing.
if even after all that the customer specifically asks for no rigging, you have it in writing and can do the contract in writing that it doesn't include rigging. and you can just whip contract out later if there is argument.
Bro, I live in Perú and you wouldn't need to starve to death to afford something that costs 700 usd dollars. It would cost like a full month of work for a medium job that pays you between 2500 to 3500 soles, but... is still a big amount of money. Of course, noone is gonna buy something like that if they don't make a good amount of money lmao.
maybe she used the wrong verbage
Hello friend. The artist made a follow-up post showing the receipt and the commissioner specifically stating only model and no rigging.
Hope this helps.
And they are deleted?
I make Vtuber models for fun and i can say it is so time consuming the layers and the tiny pieces it's so much work
I should've probably went elsewhere if they wanted to be that picky. 700 IS CRAZY cheap, and being refunded 150 is outrageous. I would hate a client like that. I felt like the artist was scammed atp
My Vtuber told me it'd take 3 months. Mine ended up taking close to 10. Yeah, it sucks, but it happens. My artist was from the Philippines and lost power often. It's not hard to keep in contact with the artist and be patient, especially if they have PROOF of completed works.
i live in the philippines, and yes, during the pandemic, the power outages here in my town are insane. every single day, we had only 6 hours of electricity, some parts of town only had power at midnight. it didn't help that it was summer in a tropical country. you can imagine the heat
Seconding that... Raining season? Power outage because of the storm. Dry season? Power outage because there's not enough electricity and everyone is using AC and a million fans.
This feels like a webtoon with all the misunderstandings--
My main take-aways are:
1)that this is what happens when you let frustration bottle up- it blows up in a nasty way that hurts everyone. (And oh boy does twitter like their mobs and fire)
Heika was probably trying to not show frustration and be "nice" in order to avoid creating any degree of conflict. I've known many people who have done this (myself included), and it's a recipe for disaster.
2)that this is a good example why Terms of Service are often long and detailed. Written in a formal manner. Thus, leaving little room for misunderstanding or abuse of ToS. Slang and vague examples of in-appropriate behaviour leave too much room for interpretation. Even without using translation tools, the usage of English alone varies a lot by region.
As an artist, not going to lie... I wouldn't want to work with that Vtuber. I'd be cringing the whole time waiting for them to flip out on me. They lack confidence in what they want, because as an artist you must take what the client tells you literally or they get upset at you. The worst clients are the ones who you do what they ask and they get MAD at you for it. Add on top of that, the client is SUPER nitpicky. Those are the ones who will stop being nice at the drop of a hat.
Agreed. It also could have been better if Heika had hired someone to just concept and design her character with ref sheets before bothering any Live2D artists tbh.
I’m terrified to become a commission accepting artist because I have severe mental issues that hit out of no where and completely kill my motivation to even feed myself or shower, the appeal of doing my hobby for money is there but I would be in one of these “callout” posts in less than a month because my art hinges on my mental state, not the stakes of what I’m making the art for 😢
Maybe start out doing stickers for Telegram? They don't take super long, and then you get to practice silly expressions ^_^
@@MissShembre thank you!
I do alot of commissions, this dosnt happen as often as it seems too. You just have to make sure you ask a ton of questions.. even things that seem obvious. Explain throughly. Check in with the commissioner often. Youll be fine. You can usually figure of whos a shit client within the first few messages. Destails like rigging restate in every check-in for updates, its tedious but worth it to avoid this.
Making art in child protective services is wild 💀
nahh frr
I think part of the issue was a rig was never talked about in the original convo on twitter then when she made the request on Vgen she clicked rigg. Smore probably just copy and pasted the quote from twitter. I had no deadline for my artist to make my model. They came back within 2 weeks of finalizing the design with my model but they also didn't have any more work at the time. I think best going in with no deadlines you never know what will happen.
Literally. DMS said only fullbody art, so I quoted only art.
@@smorefoxdelivery at 7:59 "Prices are here (screenshot here too) the two under have rigging and more artwork." and she replied only model. So I don't see where the miscommunication is.
Unless rigging and *more artwork* is rearranged to *more* rigging and artwork.
@@Utrilus you’re replying to the og artist. They kinda know what they said.
Also the video doesn’t have full information on the situation. Read the pinned comment
So this is misleading because they talked before the order was made and heika said no rigging.
I believe she made the video before more updates came out, I do wish that was in it so it was more clear how I did ask all the questions-- and how I had actually reached out weeks before the deadline to see if she wanted to cancel it becaus I knew I wouldn't of made it--But I don't fault her for it
@@smorefoxdeliveryI'm sorry that happened TnT from wha I can tell it was jus miscommunication problems (not helped wi the language differences) an so I don think there's any malice from her from wha I'm seeing here bu regardless I'm sorry this happened
As an artist, not all works made by certain people are gonna be perfect if zoomed in. That's just the style. Mine certainly isn't gonna be prestige but I still have regular commissioners. Js.
but the issue is its being used for live streaming service so it need to be made at a higher standard, those stray lines/splotches would be easily visible when the character is moving around or the background is moving
@@02nightowl I agree with this. It's one thing if something isn't the exacts shade I wanted, or the hair is slightly different. But you don't leave stray lines or splotches on a vtuber model, it's one of those things you look over when you're done and clean up. At least for me doing the last clean up doesn't take that long, even if the lines are a bit messed up.
And especially if you're taking commissions you need to quality check your final product before you're done.
With that said I don't think it was enough for a refund, and if the vtubers had the files she could have easily edited that herself.
Naw I get the artist here
I agree, poor s'more
25:51
What she paid is almost 4 minimum wages in my country, I am from South America, but specifically Brazil, the currency in Argentina is much cheaper than ours, I would say that she paid much more than she probably would have spent if she had bought a domestic one, Haika probably thought she was already buying a high-quality model.
Haika is paying 631216,25 when the minimum wage in Argentina is 202,800.
brazil is part of north america? geography has failed me
@@headshothunt3r414 Sorry not my first language.
But the artist has to charge a livable wage for their own area.
@@clovis_the_spook tought nobody is saying they shouldnt. They just saying is very pricey
I'm from Venezuela, and as a country that's been under inflation in the past 20 years or so, we are very aware of USD prices, and at least here everything is USD based
The Vtuber community is very international, so I doubt she wasn't aware of the standard price for a Vtuber model
I am an artist, and I wanna say, never rush artists. Time=Quality. If people rush artist, they also rush quality, which means less details. I was commissioned by Vtubers many times before about assets (simple PNG, not Live2D), and I always took my time for it to look good. I wanted my Vtuber clients to be happy. Also I know few people who commissioned me who didn't read my ToS (Terms of Service), and agreed to it. Please read artist's ToS. It's very important. Many artists have "no refunds" in ToS, because of sudden charge-backs from commissions. Also please, tell artist a details you want, because without it, we can't do what you want. We artists love to create and we love our friends Vtubers. We love to see our clients happy ❤️✨
I'm a commission artist since pfffff idk 7-10 years on and off- and I basically bombarde my Customers with WIPs
Not only for my security (steps needing approval) but also for the customer to feel seen, have the chance to intervene AND to have service and kind human connection.
Its really important. I know most people for normal picture commissions just take the order and instructions and then months later hit the customer with the piece and run for it.
I do really recommend to be connective with the customers.
And another life advice for youngins: Never assume, always ask. in ANY circumstance. A- N -Y
the artist sent WIPs though???? and Heika approved them every time??? And then went back for revisions
yeah but not for stuff like the hands obviously. I really insist ooooften to check it thoroughly.
But its just a mess this case anyway.
I personally wouldnt have NOT mentioned that rigging is NOT in the price. but...yeah well. Im highly sensitive and attentive. Seems to be the case with everyone
@@acemurasaki2166 yeah, the hands deal was bad, i agree.
But when creating prices people mostly dont add "this is what you get with this + those are all of the things you *wont* get". If its not included in the price sheet its just not included. At least imo!
yeahp truly. But you already learn in a proper driving school that everrryyyoooneee else on the road is an issue. Better be safe than sorry.
If a certain part like "but this wont be an nsfw pic just so u know" (for example) is important to me... I recommend to stop assuming people know.
Infact u should never Assume anything in life. If youre not 100% sure - ASK.
Thats old people life advice XD
Communication is very complicated.
( -> Schulz von Thun ) for example.
To avoid any kind of major problems u better make sure by asking and not assuming.
Cuz as we say in germany: when the child has already dropped in the fountain its too late for precaution
@@acemurasaki2166 1. I’m 27yo.
2. I have autism, so I over-explain almost every take I have so people will get what I wanted to say! ^^
3. But once again, when you’re buying coffee, it’s weird to be mad there weren’t tea in it.
It was just a dumb misunderstanding. I hope Smore was paid for all of the time she spent. What a beautiful model.
I found you through other videos that were recommended to me! By the way, that "fox girl" you saw in the DM between Heika and the artist is Buffpup, a buffed dog Vtuber-a pretty big indie Vtuber.
This was definitely a messy communication. If I were Heika, at the very beginning when I receive the proposal, I make sure to read it and check if there is nothing missing. Since the "rigging" part was missing in the original proposal when she asked for it, I would've let the artist or seller know that "Hey, I asked for rigging, but it isn't mentioned in the proposal you sent me. Can you fix it and add it, please?" Then the artist would say like "Oh, sure. I am sorry about that. Let me quickly fix that for you."
The issue here is that in the video the creator missed the screenshot where Heika point black said "only fullbody" when we talked about art or art +rigging
@@smorefoxdelivery It's at 7:59 "Prices are here (screenshot here too) the two under have rigging and more artwork." and she replied only model as well.
That makes 2 points of failure.
I guess the commissioner agreed to the rushed model/ declined the full refund out of fear of not finding another artist to finish it on deadline since it was already two months late
700$ for 100 hours of highly exhaustive and complex mental work? what the fuck, cashiers are paid better than that
right and it doesn't even consider the artist's self-employment taxes or any art tools / subscriptions
the character they referenced, Buffpup is a well-known VTuber.
Yes. Taking inspiration for one aspect of another vtuber isn't stealing if that's what you're saying this for. If not, then congratulations you spotted a vtuber you knew
I would say that pointing to someone for wanting one similar trait isnt too bad. It mostly become a problem when you try to take so much inspiration that you decide to call yourself .... Burlycub or something.
My BIGGEST suggestion for people doing commissions: Tell the commissioner/client to READ through your TOS and your offers. Create an intro message as your template or first message before communicating for a commission so they will become AWARE and REMINDED of what services you offer as an artist. This will really help diminish damaging communication and will help you look PROFESSIONAL.
Nah personally I think both are in the wrong but the vtuber way more than the artist
The vtuber had 2 chances to notice that it had no rigging. Second one was at the invoice not including it, and the first one was when picking the price. 7:59 "Prices are here (screenshot here too) *the two under have rigging* and more artwork."
bro when u see a comment saying "as a professional" and they start yapping about this and that 🤦♀🤦♂.
I mean.. it is a comment section people with experience are gonna comment lol
Why? What were you expecting on videos like this lol. They should be able to share their experiences too.
I feel like both sides are extremely confused about almost everything.
The artist seems way too far ahead in the pipeline, and I never saw clarification on the basics. Also I think the artist didn’t communicate clearly the complications with a short timeline. I would also think “this person seems confident to work on this in 4 weeks” and wouldn’t question it unless they said “it won’t be perfect”.
The commissioner never asked questions until it was too late, which is on them.
I think both are at fault, but if the ideal wasn’t delivered, a partial refund has to be delivered.
On Smore's Twitter she has posted more since the stream that this video came from aired. I was one of the ones commenting during the stream and honestly, Smore is a good artist and from what I see on her Twitter she does communicate which is why I think all of her people are supporting her on this.
21:00 maybe the difference is
First 3: how much of the model's body is made
Vtuber Starter Kit: model + rigging
Live2D Rigging: just rigging. no model/have your own model
Either way, Smore should better specify what "Vtuber Starter Kit" means.
During the talks at 7:59 "Prices are here (screenshot here too) the _two under have rigging_ and more artwork." and she replied only model.
So it was brought up, and she agreed to the invoice without rigging.
I feel like 90% of this issue could've been solved with signed invoices.
There's a reason why when you go into a PC repair shop or hire a contractor they show you what they're going to be doing in writing and require you to sign off on it.
That way if you drag them to court (or the court of public opinion) they can whip it out.
It also prevents being charged for things you didn't request.
I see this a lot with online artists:
1) Not understanding the value of what you produce. Spending 8 hours on a $20 commission isn't good business. Charging $500 for something you can do in less than an hour while eating lunch and talking on the phone is also not good business unless there's specific risk or licensing involved.
2) Not knowing how to make business deals. Invoices! Quotes! Proposals! Deadlines! ETAs! Progress Reports! School actually does teach you how to do these things but not enough people internalize it.
3) Getting shit in writing. Get it in writing. Is money exchanging hands? Get it in writing. PayPal and other services let you attach notes to transactions for a reason. Get it in writing.
4) Commissions are not free money. They are customers. They expect a product in a timely manner. If you cannot produce the content for the customer in a timely manner, do not take their money. Do not have a backlog of 10 people who have all paid you money. And FFS do not take new clients while old clients are still waiting on their product. Holy SHIT do I hate this. Oh and "Months" is not a "timely manner" in most cases (people who build things that require special materials or rely on things that grow are obviously exempt from this)
5) Spending more time on Twitter than creating. You wanna be a successful artist? Connections are very important, yes. But being able to reliably produce content is even more valuable. Artist drama is so exasperating in part because all the time they spend arguing about pointless BS is time they're not spending on things their clients paid for.
He had an invoice of what is in the scope of the project. Rigging wasn't included there. And even before the invoice was made has him mentioning that rigging is in the starter kits, and she asked for only models. at 7:59 "Prices are here (screenshot here too) the two under have rigging and more artwork." To which she replied wanting only model.
What do you do when the client doesn't read the invoice?
Hey artist here!
Months is DEFINITELY a normal wait time for artists. We don’t just shit art out of our asses bro.
Also some artists take multiple clients BECAUSE they rely on commissions as their source of income.
@@Choqbun Job is job you take and don't take more unless you can finish if you get sick it's fair but it's not clients job to do your job for you. The client clearly relied on the job being done in time. Sure vtuber just requesting art and stuff ohh it's not like she's working. WRONG! she is relying on the job to be done to be able to work herself. Anyways they are still both wrong. One not knowing how to communicate properly with commisioner and commisioner not refunding when they had time and waiting for stress and frustriation to build up and lash out.
@@eveningabused5123 my points still stand lol
Usually when the pronouns is changing like from he to she or she to he, it's an indication of using google translate. So, the miscommunications here are definetly poor.
It's unfortunate
I don’t get this trend of calling pronouns pronounce. It’s not funny or cute or amusing in any way. It’s just annoying.
@@catsareexcellent No, i just always forgot how to spell it :P
@@catsareexcellent it's just a typo, calm down
@@nikafvi it’s not though. It’s the same with the “are you acoustic” trend. Like If you’re transphobic or ableist just say so.
@@catsareexcellent ??? the fuck are you talking about, the original comment literally made a typo and wrote 'pronounce' instead of 'pronouns'??
I think her missing her "debut" is completely on her. You can't plan a house party on a day before you even closed on the house. If you don't have the most important part of something, don't assume it's gonna be there when you need it. She should have waited until she had the model before having the debut. There's no expiration date on the model that says she has to use it as soon as possible after it's created. Get the model. Make sure it works the way you want it. Then have the debut.
Commissioned for a VTuber model, for the model AND the rigging done by the same person, and it was $1000, and the artist even said she would even give 6 free twitch emotes and a free $25 extra expression. I felt lucky with that pricing. Can't wait for my model!!
Oh wow, thanks for making this video and for the update pinned comment. I recently commissioned Heika through vgen and thought they were sweet and gave me a ton of updates on my art commission. I think it's fair to get a partial refund for all the mistakes, but a full refund is asking too much for the artists time. This situation feels very mixed with a lot of miscommunication and I wish both of them the best but I will not be comming Heika anymore after seeing this.
To them you've gotta give credit, for the languages of Mexicans and Argentinians are so different, that the untrained eye could read a text written by both, each in their characteristic style, and recognize not one from the other; yet the decision was made by one to make their self public in a language not of their land, and the other, to not question whether the other spoke the tongue of their coin's land, leading to misunderstandings not aided by the apparent lack of awareness and double checking the finalized contracts their words made, sometimes in the name of being nice to each other and allowing delays that far too close would get to deadlines.
unfortunately i dealt with an artist that made me late on my own debut, they had told me it would take 2 months to make, which i was okay with, after two months i asked how the art was going, i got an answer 2 weeks later, telling me it should be done in about 2 weeks, i let it go, after 8 months of getting back and forth trying to see progress and all that i started getting annoyed, so i asked them to give a deadline for themself, the told me october and asked me if i minded if they could practice rigging on it for free, i was like "thats fine so long as i make my debut date which HE set. 1 week before debut, he had not even started rigging, so i got annoyed, i was late to that, and then once i FINALLY got my model, there was no expressions, which he said it came with 5. utterly disapointed.
Hi, I'm a current client and a vtuber who has worked with Smore. This isn't my story to tell but I wish to say one thing:
Please be careful how you approache these topics. I feel the way you spoke of her art can be taken very hurtfully.
Smore has worked very vry hard to deliver her works but has had many setbacks due to medical reasons. It made it very difficult to continue her work.
Before judging on her overall Art, at least take the time to look over her other works, see what she can do. Take time to read fully and thoroughly both sides.
Neither deserve to be ripped into nor do I encourage any harassment or anything of the sort towards ANY sides.
But please, please be mindful of the full story before making your decision.
Thank you.
I definitely feel for both sides, especially with the unexpected health issues and language barrier. However, when sold seperately you usually see the terms "full body art" and "full body rig/rigging"'. The term "model" is used for a finished product you can port into VTS and use as-is (otherwise it's just a PNG or layered PSD). Accepting a request for "full body art & rig" with confirmation that a "full body model" will be delivered definitely implies the client will receive both the art & rig. Not to mention at 3:36 you can see the invoice itself says "Live2D Vtuber Model + Rigging"; I think it's very understandable that the client was confused. Glad to see the artist already updated their VGen page to be more specific & hope they don't have to deal with any more headaches about it~
He did say at 7:59 "Prices are here (screenshot here too) the *two under have rigging* and more artwork." To which she replied wanting only model.
So I dunno about that. She chose only model I don't really understand what she expected. Especially when invoice was also just that.
This isnt a misunderstanding. Its the commissioner fault - read the ToS guys. And DO WRITE DOWN WHAT YOU WANT FROM THE ARTIST- ARTIST DON’T READ MINDS! Don’t be childish…
Also, if you want to commission someone who doesn’t speak your language - don’t… commission them? And if you still do, be prepared for some mistranslation and questions.
Yeah, I had my windows replaced by someone with different language, never again.
I’m so done with the “but the language difference!” Excuse. It’s Spanish and English right? Those two languages are SO easy to translate into each other, even if you don’t speak the other language perfectly, there are TONS of free translation applications. There is also the issue for me where if you’re having a problem translating something, just say so instead of knowingly misunderstanding something 💀 That’s coming from someone who’s first language is Spainish
@@BbiBbiithas jus not true tho, both from you, the people up there, an alo of other people, you's seem to jus assume the worst an assume idiocy or malice cause they don hab the abilities like you, learning languages is hard an so is translating them, also you don jus continue on if you know it's a miscommunication thas why it's a miscommunication you don realize there's a miscommunication making it a miscommunication, I'm not saying she's perfect bu give the girl a lil more plausible denyability
It is completely the customers job (and fault if not done) to check the proposal for what will be covered by the price estimate. If they don't read what they are paying for it's their own fault
To be 100% honest picking up on things as small as lines not connecting is a pain in the behind for artists as it means going back through all the line art to make sure they connect properly which can take anywhere from an hour to 12 hours depending on the piece and how detailed it is. I do commissions and the one thing i hate most is people picking up on something as small as that. A lot of people should understand that artist don't have all the time in the world to get commissions absolutely perfect specifically with line work. While the artist was a bit unprofessional, picking up on small issues that would only be noticeable if you go looking is also unprofessional.
After reading the update, I can not believe they got a 150$ partial refund and the model and they still complained about it. I honestly find that insane.
I’m completely on the artist’s side.
I mean, I understand a lot of these misunderstandings, but also, the client here is being an awful client, while the artist is trying to constantly offer compromises and trying to make sure everything's okay. If things don't look the way you expect in the final product, that's not the time to try to nuke the project when all the work has been put in. Also really poor form in general to try to blast them publically after not accepting any compromise, and not working it out in private (as, from what I can tell, Smore was communicative and fixing details until the very end)
as an artist my self, i think that you should account for unexpected things in life an hive your clients an bigger dead line that you think you can do the job, for exemple if i know i can get something done in 5 days i will say that it will take me 8 to 10 days to finish and then i can or give them the commission sooner that they expected or give it at the 8 days mark, for a vtuber i will always say it takes between 2 to 4 months even tho i know i could probably finish it in less then a month, and quality is supper important how are you going to send a "finish" product with lines that don't connect and paint where paint should not be *smh* as much as it pains me I think I'm in the client side this time 😔😔
Exactly, its kinda like when a host/hostess at a resteraunt quotes you a time before youre seated, but then its a happy surprise when its much earlier then the time they quote. it covers your ass, while at the same time makes the clients happy.
I think you're very intelligent. You're very right that $700 is a cheap price for a Vtuber model. Ironmouse paid for both blood transfusions plus the amount of a transfusion per model upgrade/update. Feel bad for the artist
Oh, hey, Buff Pup mentioned! I used to watch them when their model was an actual dog, I haven’t watched a streamer in years…
I kind of feel that the commissioner should have double checked they were getting a rig also, or should have brought it up at some point during their conversation 😅, then again I don't blame her for not asking because I'd assume otherwise too
I think the problem with the hands or the pearls its an easy fix if they told the artist one finished, hey you missed a finger or can you change the color of this a little? there was some miscomunications but if you can express that well in english, trust me, being your second language is not the issue. And I think the statement in twitter is a bit misleading giving a bad side for the artist. And it is a bit weird to request refund after deliver, if somethings wrong you try first to talk about if it can be fix, i think as an artist if someone paid me a 700 usd for a model and they told i missed something o do minor changes, I will do it but she didn't ask
See, you mentioned it just before the 20min mark. "Oh the price is lower then I thought. SHRUGS"
Nahhh. If I am expected to see a specific price, or the scope doesn't include something that I specifically checked, I'm reaching out and confirm. I'm NEVER going to assume something is all good. Because like you said constantly, miscommunication is huge here. This comes down to just respecting mine and the artists time too. But I also never ask for refunds even if I don't like something. I live with it
As the commissioner, it is your sole duty to make sure what you are paying for is 100% what you want. The person paying should have MADE SURE IN WRITING that rigging was included. The commissioner failed to do so and failed to check the hands. That is her problem. The $350 was a very very generous offer and demanding more money is just rude at this point.
The commissioner also understood that she had influence on Twitter and used that to get the first word of the story. Which I find very manipulative. She was nothing but rude, idc about the translations, her form of logic is rude. Her decision to go public instead of keeping it between smore and the staff was rude.
I also understand the artists TOS, since she is doing time consuming model work, this tos is fair, if it was just an illustration then that’s when the TOS is iffy. The way the artist does updates is fair. The hands was fair since it looks almost identical to all the references. It was the commissioners problem to check the hands if what she wanted wasn’t included in the original concept references.
Overall I feel sad for the artist and I hope she gets more orders and is able to keep her commissions rolling after this dumb situation.
I am both a vtuber and an artist, so I might be qualified for both perspectives: If I ever get any commissions (which is kinda rare and seeing these incidents happening makes it have so much sense that ppl doesn't trust a little nobody xD)
I kinda think they were both at fault, due to miscommunication and stuff, and this is why I am always asking back about everything even if it makes me sound dumb. I rather look someone dumb but have 100% sure communication than having such mistakes due to miscommunications.
I did my own model, and as someone who always draws in the little know it alls in both games and anything else, while you are sooo right about "no one will see this unless they zoom in 300 times" the funny thing is that I DID get a similar remark once on chat in the first days of my debut (first ever model art, first ever rig, I worked my ass off with that crap xD). The remark was about 2-3 pixels on my shoulders/collarbones then tried to reason with them being webdesigner or idk what did they say. As this model being my biggest work ever what I was ACTUALLY proud of with all of its mistakes, I took it more personally than I should've.. I never want anyone get this feeling, so if I would ever make a whole ass model to anyone (which is actually happening, and I will soon start working on his model) I will make sure there's no odd pixels anywhere even if it needs 1000% zoom to see even tho my prices are under the table xD
Oh snap, I am in a Kali video! Honestly, I never dug to deep into this. I commented quick, because I do know that Smore was going through a lot of health and life struggles. She didn't deserve the 'call out' because it was misunderstandings. Honestly, this blew up way too much because the vtuber community often falls back on these big twitter call outs, when in reality, much of it can be settled in dms.
@@smorefoxdelivery I didn't say you scammed them, in fact, I was on your side. Hell, I didn't even know who they were until this. I am not friends with them. It makes me wonder if you even read my comment or watched the video, because even Kali says 'people defended the artist'. I was the one who said that I wanted to comm you when your health and my finances were better. But this comment has me second guessing if I want to now.
@@smorefoxdelivery 4:39 they literally defend you are you sure you read the username right?
@@RubinousVT You have my DEEPEST apologiest- I thought this was the same username of her friend who still posted of me being a scammer. I should of double checked the name--- I'm so very sorry for the mistake >.< Fully my fault. I will do better before I comment again
@@FaeTuberEden I misread it- I am very much in the wrong and thought it was the same person from twitter- I will watch my comments and double check before I ever comment again. I'm so very sorry to everyone
yay! i was waiting for more vtuber based videos from you! love your thoughts
I'm glad you like these!
@@katliente Would really love an update video on situation since I have been seeing that the artist has posted more information and screenshots :) !
Does anyone know when Vgen will launch as a whole? I can't join the beta atm unfortunately and was curious about being able to join for future 🙌🏻💯🔥
you can put whatever you want in your terms and conditions. if it's unreasonable, people just won't hire you. but the punishment for an artist who does work beneath their capabilities isn't not getting paid. it's losing future commissions and damaging their reputation. art is a creative field, and rep and past body of work are everything. you trust an artist tp do their best work not cuz you're paying them, but because it's in their interest. if you hire and artist do a piece and they give it to you, as a client you can't just say "nah, decided i don't like it so i'm not paying". Now, if it's not what you asked for, in a different style or not the correct format, that's a different story. assuming you contractually agreed to things, those things must be delivered to get paid. but that can't be things like "it's not good enough" or "i'm not connecting with it". That's not the artist's problem. it's too subjective, and puts all of the power n the hands of the client. if you wanna buy a finished work where you know exactly what you're getting, then you do that. if you commission a piece, you're limited to giving the artist direction. you're hiring them because you like what they do and want their creativity and instincts. not to control their brush. that's not an artist, that's an illustrator or a draftsperson.
"You cannot write whatever the hell you want and expect people to agree to it" I mean, you can though? And if you don't agree to a person's TOS then don't commission them lol.
Scheduling stuff before your model is ready is just..naive, don't plan anything until you have it
the way that heika was just like at the start ASKING for no refunds. even when offered, then when she was unable to anymore. she got mad and tried to get a refund
Especially with procreate, there’s an extra step in photoshop that you need to do in order to have the layers show up correctly in live2d so yeah I side with the artist, exporting issue :(
33:01 "it's better to measure twice and cut once" that's why I ask customers at my part time job about their food and drink orders to confirm - they might change their minds or accidentally said the wrong order without knowing 😇
Technically he did measure twice, lol. In the dm's at 7:59 he mentions that the rigging is in the starter pack, and the second is the invoice lacking it.
Tho both got misread or not read or overlooked.
I think their both at fault. The artist for the obvious rigging thing and hika for being so difficult about the 1 day late thing. I mean I'd request a refund too if my art wasn't what I paid for but their both definitely in the wrong.
buffpuff model is so great uwu she a werewolf
can see why people would reference her model its so great :3
Also, a tip to everyone, being nice on the internet doesnt mean anything. People dont show their true colors, ESPECIALLY on the internet. Heika showed their true colors at the end, all the niceties b4 were only surface level. Just because a person may seem nice, doesnt mean they cant turn out to be an asshole beneath.
The VTuber in Question actually did use a Hentai-Artists art, just to reference the thickness of her body to the artist? Thats funny:
11:07 - 11:09
I see so from how i see it, its this ultimately.
haika thought checking the box for "rig" will GET THEM the fullmodel +rigging done.
But i think the check box was there cus smores need to know if they need to cut the model up layers by layers like how riggers need it to be to have it rigged.
So when haika checked the box, they thought it comes with the whole movement thing, but that box is only for smores to know they have to cut up the layers.
Its really just misunderstanding. Haika is correct to misunderstood, even for a english speaker i can see its confusing.
The artist is wrong for not being super clear that the files the person chose DOES NOT come with a rigged model (further saying if they wan a rigged moving model the cilent would need to pick the vtuber starter pack is the safer action to do too), but it's haika's wrong also for not double confirming even after reading the 2nd confirmation statement the artist sent back after. (aka that page that says the client paid for face expression blahx3 page).
Both is wrong and but not at the same time. I personally think haika should just take the files and go to a rigger this time thats all. Unless the files is really not workable, then they would need the artist to send them a workable file. If the artist refuse to give another workable file, full refund.
At 7:59 "Prices are here (screenshot here too) the two under have rigging and more artwork." and she replied only model.
So he brought it up. So she ignored that. And then she also ignored when rigging wasn't in the invoice.
Funny story... this one time, I was at a restaurant I frequented regularly... ordered the same meal as always... found the total price was lower than usual... told the guy at the cashier that the price was a bit off... then, to my horror... THE GUY *LOWERED* IT EVER FURTHER!!! AUUUGFFHFFGGHHHHHH!!!!!! I'm sure he got a kick out of doing that >
This is really unfortunate scenario. they both indeed did wrong, but i see so much "oh the client should have told better what they wanted" but its just as much you as an artist to ask question to make sure u understand everything right. When i do commissions and i get references, i make sure to ask specifically what about the reference they want, i sketch it out and then show them.
In the end i dont think its one persons fault, i agree with Katliente that on different places its keeps switching "who is at fault" so to speak. Its just tons and tons of miscommunications along the way. The only reason i can see Heika being so sad and feeling scammed at the end, is porbably after all the wait they did and with how patient they tried to be, they thought they would get a polished rigged model. seeing all they payed and waited for wasn´t where she thought it would be (polished and rigged) she felt scammed due to the miscommunication from the very beginning with them checking of on a rigged model and the artist not specifying this is art only.
I hope both of them talk and manage to figure out a good solution for them.. as this is just such a big sad case of miscommunication from both sides.
You seem to be very on Heikas side here
So ill try and play the other side
Heika was given multiple outs
Smore was commuinicating
In that back and forth of updates she plenty of chances to be like
Heika was 100% happy until the very end, they suddenly didn't want to at least partially pay Smore
@@mk_gamíng0609 yes and i understand and agree they should have done that. But that didn’t happen, so that’s why i tried to understand from her POV what could have had her suddenly be so sad about it. And no im not on one side more than the other. But I see people like you say the same thing “she had an out sevral times” I think in the end all she wanted was her model, and again due to the miscommunication she was missing a hole rig from her POV and then tons of small mistakes. Just because I tried to see somthing from her pov that tons of people don’t seem to bother to do dosnt mean im in her side more. I just wanna try and understand because the artists side is much more clear cut and understandable.
at 7:59 "Prices are here (screenshot here too) the __two under have rigging__ and more artwork." and she replied only model. So I don't see where the miscommunication is.
When he pointed out that the vtuber kits have rigging she asked for only model. So I dunno exactly what she expected.
@@Utrilus the miscommunication at that part specifically, the person ordering ticked of the box for rigging, and when presented with a price on Vgen, the artist didn't specify "art only" instead saying full art model, I'm not native English, so if i had ticked of a box that said rig, and they replied with full body model, that can both mean art only and with rig in that scenario. as its not specified at that point that its "art only"
you have to understand that just because you woundt misunderstand that don't mean other people can. That's why i said i always ask follow up questions and im very specific when i do commissions, because i know how easy it is to make that mistake. over the internet its super easy to misunderstand eachother due to language barrier, ill consider my English pretty decent, but there are still things i misunderstand/goes over my head when talking it because im not 100% used to all aspects of the language.
I hope that was understandable if not let me know and ill try to explain better c:
@@KibbyCatPlays Yeah, I get it. People can have assumptions in their head which overrides what is said, like looking at it from a different context.
Tho after agreeing for model only she had the second chance to notice that she wasn't getting rigging was when it wasn't in the invoice.
I think the 3 options there were: Just model, Model+rigging, just rigging.
She checked the first and third, meaning the artist could have noticed she wanted starter pack. Over complication of the options available.
I make my models in CPS and they have no issues or bugging.
My model was CPS and no issue either
I think after the point of the first refund it’s completely on the commissioner, because you knew you’d not only miss ur debut by then by would also get a late commission so get your full money back and go somewhere else. But no, instead she sat there and said it was fine only to complain about it later once the commission was complete? Sounds like a classic scammer move.
What bothers me about vgen is how many artists try to put in their tos that they own commercial rights to anything you do in the future, it's not legal and opens you up to a lawsuit
Actually yes, you can put whatever the hell you want on your TOS, it's YOUR tos... it's ON THE CLIENT to read it and agree, if you don't agree don't commission... if you commission you can't complain...
And "don't liking it" is NOT a valid reason for refund, you saw the portfolio of the artist, you got the process where you can change what you don't like, that's what sending the process is about... if you said I like it to all the process and once you get it you play the card of "I don't like it" to get stuff for free is NOT valid...
What gets me is that Heika was 100% fine until the very end
and she got very obsessed with a full refund
To me it seems like she wanted a model for free (Most likely not what is happening but it can seem that way)
I think both fucked up here but I do think Heika is more so in the wrong
as there was no need for the Twitter post , That post honestly does feel like it solely exists to try and force a full-refund
She was offered a full-refund - Before model was complete
Then offered a partial refund, then a nearly 50% refund -after model was complete but she refused both of these and adamant on a full refund
If time was a issue for her why didn't she take the full refund ?
At 7:59 "Prices are here (screenshot here too) the two under have rigging and more artwork." and she replied only model as well.
And then agreed on the invoice that had no rigging in it.
Seems like a conspiracy. Kinda think she decided to backstab him and milk him dry way later, near the end when the deadlines were missed.
Problem is I doubt someone would want a partial model esp if you wanted an artist specifically to have the liberty of making the model. having to jump artists is so inconvenient and jarring to the art design. If my artist I choose couldn't deliver I wouldn't want that artist period because I intend for them to be in creative charge of my model forever.
Also offering outs of refunds but ALSO giving a "Oh but I can also focus and deliver X date" when they aren't certain is 100% the WORST thing to do. You have to be able to say "Hey, I cannot do this I am overwhelmed. Just take refund" no exceptions.
From watching all this, I believe both are in the wrong on their own various levels. I disagree that harrassment should be given to either party. There was miscommunication and misunderstandings on BOTH ends. Neither deserve it and neither are correct. I do think it was generous of Smore to give a partial refund for the miscommunication and issues that occured. I do think that Heika's anger could of been managed better, but frustration is always handled differently.
TL;DR: Both are wrong, glad it was kinda sorted out but also to those who feel the need to harrass either - you're the problem here. NO ONE should be harrassed for any reason.
1:55 that square bug in photoshop happened to me before but in clip studio with one of my arts, even when i undo-ed everything or opened and closed a layer, even reloading the file it did not fix it :(i think its a device storage glitch
To add on the confusion due to language barriers, when it came to the pricing, maybe the rigging not being billed didn't raise any bell to the Vtuber due to currency conversion ? I pay in Euro,and commission people of various countries and so, currency. Changes can be wild. Like, once i paid something charged as 20something (can't recall the name of that currency) but it was like, 6Euros to me. In such circumstances, if that artist has charged me for different stuff, i would likely not have realised it was the case.
Orange fox girl lololol That's Buffpup for anyone wondering!
When you export from cps to ps it'll give an alert that some layers may disappear, but those are mostly the adjustment layers. Normal layers should work perfectly fine, I used to open drawings in ps exported from cps.
I don't understand why VTubers have to debute, is it really necessary? And why do VTubers NEED a model when they could just start streaming without it until it's done?
This is a common issue about Customers not being concrete in their wants.
and a common issue with artists missing deadlines. Either do the order or don't. Don't be late.
to comment on the the little bits of color around and lines that aren't perfect lined up, a portion of that can be fixed with rigging meshes
i dont think she should get a full refund with how much effort one puts into things but oh well
Regardless of the miscommunication that model likes so cute and pretty
i can see this from both sides as an artist and a vtuber if they knew smore would push deadlines or even not finish the art maybe they shouldn't have commissioned especially with a complex model or they could have learned to do it themselves if they knew what they wanted essentially this could have been avoided if they just took the refund and made it themself but good on smore for being open to refund half of the model and maybe there could have been more communication
I don't want to come off as rude. But if you do know you are not so good at communicating in English, shouldn't you look for ppl who understand you much better? I am pretty sure there are plenty of spanish speaking artists with a very nice art style
Gosh its so obvious Haika used google translate i had such a hard time understanding what they were saying half the time 😭. I could not be the artist-
I feel bad for bolth parties this is plain miscommunication and it sucks that it happend but i feel like the commisioner should have been alot more clear about what they wanted and i feel bad for the artist having to redo al of that work takes so so so much time and then to have to give a full refund i completely understand that she wouldnt be willing to do so
The miscommunications really confused me halfway through the vid, first off it does seem the artist was clear in saying it would be delayed a lot and the commisioner seemed fine with that :(
it felt odd to me that they complained over it being delayed after agreeing for it (though it's reasonable) but she was asked if it was okay/refund if it being delayed wasn't ok? I understand if they really admired the artist and really wanted a commision from them specifically. just halfway in it feels like the commisioner liked/agreed to everything but the deadline passed and it was suddenly 180ed?... hmm this whole thing is really confusing me thus far, i should proboally finish the last 10 minutes before commenting further
For the rig part, it’s not smors fault, think of it this way, u put stuffs in ur shopping cart but u didn’t pay for the cereal, u get the receipt had a look and it didn’t say cereal, u went home and looked at ur haul and realised theres no cereal, then u go back to the supermarket to give them shit about not getting ur cereal?? Boiled down, it’s just because heika doesn’t know English.