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I really hope this was the last video from Prophecy. is not even intersting to hear you talk about it (and i like most of your videos) but damn.. this show sucks. ngl
I just found it a bit boring and I found scenes at “clubs” didn’t quite fit in. The music was too contemporary for our time and not something I would imagine people necessarily listening to ten thousand years from now. It took me right out of the immersion.
Instead of a night club, they could have gone to high-end restaurant or private supper club that would have fit in much better in Frank Hubert's vision❤.
Not only are the club scenes kinda wack but they've got members of the royal family scampering about without bodyguards or adequate security. Herbert's books made it clear you couldn't even get within touching distance
As a Dune book fan and a fan of Denis’ movies I felt the same way about this show that you expressed on the live streams. Total mixed bag with some good some cringe. But I was just on a work trip 2 days ago and at dinner with clients this show came up in conversation and everyone at the table had seen the show, maybe half had seen the movies, and other than me none have had read any of the books. They ALL said it’s amazing and I was shocked because I thought that if anyone would like it it would be the book fans who understand the sci-fi behind it all and appreciated could appreciate Easter eggs from the books in an otherwise inconsistent show. But it turns out the mainstream crowd are actually the most excited about it and felt like it was cohesive and coherent and engaging. So that’s interesting.
23 วันที่ผ่านมา +41
I def reckon the "nightclub thing" was definitely "by committee" 🤣
I enjoyed lots of elements of the show as well! As I said in this video, I still have hope that season 2 will improve the show overall. I look forward to making more theory videos about it in the future.
yeah it has it's problems, but as far as tv goes it's above average. and that's good enough for me when it comes to Dune content. But obviously there were going to be comparisons to the most recent movies.. nobody could live up to that.
The artistry and special effects in Dune Prophecy series were fantastic and kept to the lore of Dune. The series did a good job explaining the deep seated hatred between the Harkonnen and the Atreides and their ongoing blood feud against one another. You had to admire the dedication of getting close to the enemy by seducing a young, gullible & naive Atreides member to kill most of his bloodline. It is almost reminiscent of Arya's destruction of House Frey in Game of Thrones except the possibility the sister may have been falling in love doubting her purpose there. Their passionate night of love making may have produced an offspring allowing her to ease any guilt she may have felt when she secretly poisoned the entire clan. I was very disappointed when the series started to introduce advanced abilities and technologies so early in the show. The human race had just thrown off the immense yoke of machine oppression only several years ago and turmoil would be the order of the day. Life on an untold number of planets would have been wiped out of existence. Religious zealotry would be prevalent throughout human dominated worlds. Entire societies would be turned upside as humans struggle to adapt to a world of less advanced technology, particularly without artificial intelligence assistance. You may have hidden alcoves of hidden technology such as the Sisterhood's sentient machine beneath their school, but prejudices amongst the members would uncover the secret. Spice should not have been discovered for generations and only through great hardship & accidental discovery. Fleeing bands of desperate humans, who would later form the Fremen, would arrive at Arrakis when it was still a lush green planet and it slowly changes to a forbidding desert due to introducing an ecological disaster upon it. Refugees may have accidentally brought primitive sandtrout to Arrakis and could not combat them effectively since they were be cut off from the rest of human civilization. Arrakis would become a forgotten lost world for hundreds, if not thousands, of years. The high risk of space travel without thinking machines or space navigators and the cataclysmic history of the Bulterian Jihad could explain this easily. The Sisterhood and other organizations would be embryonic at best in this time in history, approximately ten thousand years before Paul Atreides. The Atreides wold not been trusted or respected by other houses since their ancestors may have served the machines as trusted slaves. Communication & interplanetary travel between worlds would be difficult and involve high risk of crashing into a star or a wayward gravitational anomaly. Thousands of worlds separated from everyone else would explain the neo-feudalistic system which Dune employs. These worlds would fall under their own primitive devices & meager resources until they are incorporated under the empire at a later time.
I'm not a Dune fan. Loved the recent movie adaptations. Watched this 4 times. It was intriguing... 3 full stops. (+1) I feel for you missing out on something. I'm a Tolkien fan; we took it worse with ROP. I only watched 3 episodes of that and am still suffering from my loss of potential happiness it should've given.
It’s just putrid. I too love Dune. I loved the original movie, for all its shortcomings it’s what got me into the Dune World… but it’s as though the Dune Prophecy series embraces everything that’s wrong with the modern World ie the people with in charge just do no get it.
I agree with the Lynch approach as far as the art style. Its one thing to be reading a book where the BGs are described amazingly, while dressed as boring as possible. But for visual media, I prefer to see the main characters with more flair, taste, and personality than the 1860s funurel garb seen in the show.
@@miamijim5964 Lynch's version has Faux Baroque and late Victorian Steampunk all over it. And that is Great. Villeneuve's aesthetic was grand, but bland.
Fwiw Lynch was a graduate of the PA Academy of the Fine Arts which was in Philadelphia. Sadly the school no longer exists. But the building where it.was still exists. It's a fanciful late Victorian creation by Frank Furness.
@@menninkainen8830 The main issue with Lynch's version were the producers. And then him whining about it, ad infinitum. And any adaptation will have its "hit and miss". And villeneuves version is not immune to it.
I was so mesmerized by the world building that it held my attention. I get the criticism overall and could have been a more solid story telling. So many stand out actors.
David lynch is still my Dune. That looked incredible in the big screen when it came out, and it’s one of those movies which isn’t the same if you only saw it on tv. It was one of the major influences in my life and part of the reason I became an illustrator. This new show I lost interest the moment the trailer came out and it had the same visual style as the new movies and the environment looked the same despite the show was set thousands of years ago. I don’t like spin offs and I’m not a fan of Brian Herbert’s work at all.
I enjoyed the show, overall, but the thing bugged me from the start was how much everything was so much the same as in the movies, from set design to technologies. Showing a first stage Imperium still recovering from the stated devastation of fighting the machines would have allowed the original "weird" world, Lynchian concept to work and still let the actual story connect (more indirectly than what they gave us) with the movies. What they gave us shows a static universe basically unchanged for 10,000 years, the biggest failure of the series, imo.
A static universe where humanity hasnt progressed for 10 thousand year? Be crazy if someone did something about that, say...followed some sort of path. A precious path because it will uplift all of humanity, but like another word that means something valuable idk. We can figure it out later. Anyways, this guy will follow this path to force humanity to progress. What do yall think?
Exactly. Like why is the Bene Gesserit fully formed a mere 100 years after the Bulerian Jihad. Same with Voice. To me, voice is something that was developed and researched over centuries, but nope, Valya just magically discovers it and then magically transfers that knowledge to her sisters
I started liking the show more with the last episodes. I couldn’t wait for the last couple. I love the actors and the plans within plans intrigue. I’m glad the series is closer to the DV movies and not another style. I feel that’s what’s happened with Rings OP and I can’t even watch that. The Sisterhood still seems young and they make mistakes but they learn for next time. I’m really looking forward to season 2.
Let's not forget that the first pilot for "Game Of Thrones", directed originally by Todd McCarthy, was also scrapped and abandoned. Same for the GOT prequel series "Blood Moon" aka "The Long Night" (with Naomi Watts as a Stark)... it wasn't just the pilot that was scrapped, but the entire series.
They keep doing this. They gamble with bad writing, they let their army of producers have their pathetic input everywhere and create trash that oftentimes makes very little sense.
It was based on Brian's work. Which is inferior to his fathers work and kinda paint by numbers/obvious Sci-Fi without depth. I didn't like Prophecy for several reasons, some casting decisions etc, but fundamentally Brians contributions just don't feel Dune-y to me.
Exactly! Apart from its being really boring, the fact that it's based on Brian Herbert/Kevin Anderson's trash novels means it lacks the richness and depth that makes Frank Herbert's Dune such a compelling work.
The problem with this is two-fold: there's very little lore on the early post-jihad Duniverse outside of Brian's books and the sort-of-but-not-really canon Encyclopedia, and the Dune estate is still pretty much managed by Brian. So if you want to do anything with Dune it's with HIS Dune. Lynch's Dune caused a lot of friction in how it deviated from source and the estate hasn't allowed anything like it since. As much as I dislike the overt Terminator-esque interpretation of the Butlerian Jihad its all we're ever going to see in media.
The bizarre and the strange is exactly what is missing from these recent productions. It’s as if the creators are afraid of taking chances, and instead made a watered down drama that could have been shown on syndicated tv.
That's not the creators. That's the studio. Unless you're a BIG name, you are taking and accepting notes and suggestions from the studio in order to get your show made. It's a business and the studio holds the purse strings and they want it to be profitable.... so they get in their own way sometimes by watering down the shows or use the current popular format to ensure viewership.
I actually like Dune prophecy,it was full of plot twists,had my fav actor Travis playing a main character ( finally again!) and the dialogues where beautifully written.The aesthetics and costumes where spot on for me .The only thing that didn't fit for me was the club scenes and some sex scenes like Konstantin's that took time screen without adding anything to the plot.Other than that I'm fully invested and can't wait to see more!
Travis Fimmel was the best part of the series. Choreography of fights was a BIG step down from Paul and Feyd and Duncan. The show wasn’t totally bad, though. They made some silly choices, such as your aptly termed “CW” content. I also hope that season two improves on and learns from season 1. BG and TL as competing messianic prophecies would be interesting. Both are using genetic manipulation, and they are oppositional as male and female dominated societies. Ultimately, it can be argued that TL succeeded with Hayt.
It used to be that one person would create the basic design for the show, including the characters, technology, and so on, and write a "bible" that the writers would have to adhere to. Now it seems that even that part is done by committee, leading to much lower quality shows.
This show could have 100% worked with a little editing. The first 3 episodes should have been the 30 years before stuff, then a time jump and then the Desmond Hart stuff rounds out the last 3 episodes. It would have strengthened the story and made the emotional beats hit harder
Yeah, idk why a lot of writers/showrunners nowadays think it's a good idea to jump everywhere in time. It can work if done well, but it seems like almost every show does this now. Would be nice if we could watch a show that was told in chronological order for once
My biggest problem with the show is that the machine crusade is over but billions died and you see no one with ptsd, no building crumbling, no rituals remembering the dead, etc.
It been over 100 years. Seems pretty legit. WW2 wasn't even that long ago and you couldn't tell. Despite my city being pretty much flattened. There's a few monuments and that's it.
The “thou shall not build a machine in likeness of a human mind” written into religious scripture is the PTSD. The reaction of the people to mere existence of machines is the PTSD. What are you on about?
@@Josep_Hernandez_Lujanyeah but talk shit about the juice out loud or say heil funny moustache man with the salute and people will freak the fuck out. And in Asia, the Chinese are still paranoid about the Japs. And everybody is still talking mad shit about Russia. Etc etc etc Have you been living under a rock?
They changed the name from "Sisterhood" because it was becoming untenable for shows to be "seen as woke", whether it was or not. DEI/Inclusivity/Me-Too movement type stuff actually ended up becoming very heavy handed in other shows and media, and so they feared that any marketing would doom it as a "girl boss" thing. Ironically, the Bene Gesserit are maybe the ONE original IP element that actually totally lives up to the "girl boss" trope.
It’s not perfect but it digs into the Dune universe further than anything ever has. Please don’t outright condemn the series. The later episodes especially are fantastic.
The David Lynch movie looks like it was a school project that was created by a bunch of teenagers on an acid trip. Thank God Alejandro Jodorowsky's adaptation never saw the light of day because it literally would have been that.
Saw it in the theater on release and for that double sided full page cheat sheet of Dune terminology as I walked into the theater. Damn I wish I kept that.
The recent films were pretty good, so far. But the Lynch film was really fun! Removing control from a really good director and surrendering it to a corporate committee resulted in the "product" you see in "Dune Prophecy".
I love the Lynch estethics and would have loved a show more akin to his vision. But from a pure business sense HBO would have been stupid not to base it on the new movies, considering their success. I'd love to see Johans pilot though.
I think creativity by commitee is truly detrimental to almost any production, be it TV show, Movies, or video games, these are the mediums I have noticed it having an unpleasant effect anyways
I really liked most of it. It was much more about intrigue, which got short shrift in the movies (even though I loved them). My only complaint was the scene at the end where the mother superior reveals everything to the emperor basically under cutting her plans in the prior scene. I didn’t;t understand that at all. It made no sense to do that big reveal at that point and caused a bunch of problems.
That got her arrested and was an assurance for the emperors death as she did not trust the sister to go through with the poison if the emperor believed she really loved him. It was a very Dune thing. Plans within plans. I liked how the entire series was about just layers and layers of plans both sides made.
A Dune show that isn't really Dune. Could have been cool, or it could have been the Star Trek Discovery of Dune, which I would have hated. I didn't hate Dune Prophecy. Could have been better in parts, but I didn't hate it at all.
For me I was surprised how good and faithful it was. Because I was expecting Discovery or something similar. Even if it was far from perfect it actually tried. We all know it obviously could never be on par with the original trilogy.
I really loved getting more Dune content! Being new but falling hard & absorbing tons of lore from passionate creators.. I know enough respect the father & son’s work with perspective, being two halves of a whole. His son did better than Disney with Star Wars and I was excited to watch every Dune Prophecy episode. I love the whole history & world building. I never comment on TH-cam videos lol
As one that hated the 1984 DUNE movie, I like that they went in a different direction. I have yet to finish the show,I am way behind, I generally enjoy it so far. My biggest gripe will always be downplaying to almost leaving the Spacing Guild out.
I just don't get why everything is set 10'000 years before the movies, and it all looks exactly the same. It even falls into the Star Wars trap of everything feeling small in what is meant to be a fictional UNIVERSE, like it's on entirely different planets tens of thousands of years before the movies and it's still all about House Harkonnen, House Corrino, and House Atreides. I would've thought that only a few years after the Butlerian Jihad the galaxy would be in a sort of Dark Age, but no, everything looks pretty much exactly the same as in Villeneuve's masterpiece films. I honestly think ot would all work if they had just said it was set a THOUSAND years before, not TEN thousand.
I just finished the series. Had so many questions I read book 1 and messiah before I finished it. There is no comparison to the lore- Herbert was at least to me painting with a brush these producers had no idea existed- or hollywood in recent years has been forgetting with all their “recent” failures. The show made most people look like harkonnens. Hollywood has a “stale cookie cutter” problem at least for me. I liked some of the acting and set design. But Herbert is still the master, hands down
I am always amazed at how You Tubers have so much to say about Dune and have barely read any of the books. For those of us that can’t get enough and have read not only all 6 Frank Herbert books more than once as well as all the Brian Herbert books, we are just happy to have more. Of course Brian will never match his father, but he does have insight from his father. I think the writing in Prophecy is very good compared to most of the horrible writing out there.
This is what Emily Watson told Tatiana Hullender from Screen Rant about the second season of "Dune Prophecy": "I think we are going to start in the fall [2025], and I don’t know anything [about Valya’s story]. I know nothing, so I’m just as excited as you are.". It is mind boggling how long it takes these days to get the second season for most large scale shows in production. That means that Season 2 of the show won't come out until late 2026 again, more than likely around the two year mark. Mind you there's been no announcement as to the number of episodes yet. Still, even there's an increase in the number of episodes for the second season, the total number can't be more than 8 or 10 max. "The Walking Dead", "Game Of Thrones", "Boardwalk Empire", "Deadwood", "ROME" and others managed to deliver one season per year. In the case of GOT they delivered 60 episodes aka the first six seasons between 2011-2016. Nevermind the network TV series like "Law&Order" for example, which used to deliver 22-24 episodes per season, year after year. How the hell is it possible that a show like "Dune Prophecy" will take almost two years to produce a second season?! Even "Andor", besides the obvious delays from the strikes in 2023, it would have taken 2.5 years between Season One and Season Two, granted each season has twelve episodes that range from 45 minutes to 1 hour...and it is a massive production...but still...something has definitely changed and not for the better. It gets even more frustrating when you wait that long for a show...which then ends up cancelled...
SO MUCH HATE...UGHHH!!! Have any of these TH-camrs actually read the Brian Herbert books this show is based off of??? Now an actual analysis of the plot in the books vs the show would actually be meaningful.
Dune the novels read like an inner voice first person narrator. Example (paul left the room) is written like " paul thought, as im leaving this room the feint scent of spice elicits a question, why do these off worlders smell of such oppulence, how can they afford such quantity, smugglers paul thought, these men must be the smugglers duncan warned of in these southern regions, i must not let them know i know" paul thought now going back to the palace. Its hard to turn that into film.
Prophesy did feel a bit narratively disjointed however I'd still have to say this show at its worst rivalled most of the Disney / Marvel / SW shows at their best (Andor excepted) Lacklustre isn't a dumpster fire. In a lot of ways DV's Dune should have been an HBO series as it only caught the very surface of the story
This show and house of the dragon had a lot of the same problems in my opinion. The women are strong and always right, the men are stupid warmongers, and it’s scene after scene of meetings and tons awkward silences with lots of exasperated sighing. For the same reason the left can meme, they can’t make a show either. Absolutely terrible execution on a great concept
I once read a critic describe Dune as Game of Thrones in space. To me, Dune: Prophecy reminded me of someone seeing this critics review and only reading that one line. And decided not to learn anything more about the book and just went with creating Game of Thrones with some spaceships thrown in. I really wanted to like a series, but it’s not Dune.
Bravo 👏 i second your compliment. I just want to grab the sheepish haters in this comments section that bleet about how negative stuff is and scream in their faces "where the hell is YOUR youtube channel and videos that critique Dune and its related media?".
There's an appropriate saying 'You can't make a silk purse out of a pigs ear'. The B Herbert/K Anderson books just aren't as well written as Frank's work, and you can only do so much with poor materials.
As someone who has gone from being a design and creative Director and moving into more film directing, I'm heavy on design systems in visual language. I think to your point it's fine if they would've straight away from the visual language of the movies so long as they were some type of threads or nuances that felt connected in somewayTo show that they how they build up to what we see in the films however I don't think you should ever go too far away and you also need a reason for something to exist. This show felt like it was an endeavor to capitalize on a potential IP and universe as opposed to it being well considered.
3:59 small gripe but I had an issue with the camera lenses used, too much wide angle and spherical distortion (not as bad as a go pro) but would have preferred tighter shots and more cinematic look. Examples include Star Wars: Andor or Band of Brothers
I was not sure I liked it at 1st but then it grew on me by the end. then I rewatched the entire series a 2nd time and enjoyed it even more. I actually liked it better than the Dune movies. Lots of intrigue, great story, great actors and very unpredictable. Cant wait for season 2.
I couldn't get past the godawful narration at the start of the very first episode. I felt that if this is the tone they're setting for the show, I want no part of it. Clicked it off and never went back again.
Thank you for your videos! I think all the season 1 tyrant talk absolutely ties into Paul and Leto and is setting up Dune 3 and possibly later books.From a writing perspective it's easy to set up a Chekov's Tyrant that you can use later on as you wish. I wonder if certain subplots within the first season could be tied into certain production units and writers? Would be interesting to see whose vision works best within the series.
The Dune books are great sci fi books because they focus on the exploration of ideas and the world building and plots are extensions of the ideas. The Brian Herbert material looks like either world building for the sake of world building or set piece dramas to show off the scenery.
Dune resembles Star Wars so people want to mindlessly copy the youtube-strategy for Star Wars and just make money out of incompetent hate against any new media from the franchise, I'm so glad it doesn't work and people are actually forced to criticize it seriously
Whelp, glad I wasn’t the only one who thought those scenes stood out. I should rewatch the series…I liked it well enough and I have some time on my hands to reinvest in a binge….just don’t quite have the appetite for a second helping of it yet. The club…where the hell was it even? Clearly on Salusa Secundus. That said, the first time the princes and prince skirt off in their Tesla Hoverstone, they depart from the castle. Any other time the environment transitions to the club it feels like it’s just an extension of the palace itself. It takes no time for Kerian to meet up with the revolutionaries, and when Desmond raided the bar it also seemed a quick march away from….wherever the proto-Sardaukar idled until needed. The sets, the bar aside, were beautifully designed for the most part, but not exactly thoughtful or willing to flex some imagination, considering the immense span of time that separated this story and the movies (10,000 years?) The interiors and costumes felt far too related. Modernity differs vastly from antiquity, which looses most clarity beyond a few millennium back. Today and 2000 A.D. look nothing like each-other, and that is a fraction of the time differences between these two stories. I imagine humanity would be unrecognizable in most ways given that massive a difference in time. Maybe I need a bit more suspension of disbelief but I had hoped these stories would feel aesthetically distinct. Production was clearly afraid to veer too far away from the visual vocabulary developed in the Denis Villeneuve movies. And if I might just be petty….Desmond Hart is the most ridonkulous sounding name. It feels like the singer in an 80s hair metal band, maybe a bad boy in a tella novella….an 80s hair metal band…… Certainly at points I was invested in the show, but the quality of the writing from episode to episode was uneven, and Im not a fan of leaving so many plot threads open-ended when a second season isn’t guaranteed. It felt….rushed and absolutely deserved 2-4 more episodes to spread out the story a bit, giving some of the side characters and plot threads time to develop further. It was just below Apple TV’s Foundation in my mind. That show started out strong and lost its footing. Here’s hoping Prophecy is doing the opposite….starting unsteadily and catching itself on its sophomore season and becoming something truly special. The budget is there.
Hmm not sure I perceived much in the way of layers but it was at least a plan with some subterfuge which was pretty absent from the movies and that is more true in the books. But it seemed pretty to some degree. The emperor was willing to go along with things and purge the sisterhoods enemies. By killing him they handed the throne over to enemies. It’s hard to see how the sisterhood benefited from that call aside from happenstance.
It takes effort to take a rich, textured universe that spans eons....across a galaxy with warring factions... strange mysterious races and technology.....and make it boring.
This could have been such a good thing. Didn’t even get through ep 1 before I fast forwarded. Just all talking, 4x fast forward ep 2 and it’s… all talking. Not interesting enough characters to justify the time. I’m sorry but you can’t just have pretty people and pretty sets. Too little effort going into shows these days. Loved all the Dune books, even listened to the audiobooks, and the movies are great. Show is a 1/10
Why does everything have to be explained? Why can't movies just leave things up to the mystery... Like star wars... my god... lets explaaaain everything... good toddlers..
Pitch: "We can make a story set in the Dune universe, but set it 10,000 years before the book and set it away from Arrakis and expand the universe and lore. No sandworms or sand. Just politics, intrigue and worldbuilding the Bene Gesserit and the imperial throne." HBO: "Great!" Last scene of Season 1: Main characters arriving on Arrakis.
I think the more interesting story that connects to the overall story of the books would have been the Butlerian Jihad. Now that would be worth telling. Thinking machines after all are the ultimate antagonist.
All icing and no cake. Coming out of 2018, I think we all knew where this was going to go. Considering Hollywood is obsessed with identity politics, particularly boss girl superheroes, I didn't think this was going to go any other way. I had a hope that the story of The sisterhood had enough intrinsic examples of female power, but it seems like the writers just can't be subtle about it. They don't understand the subtlety of anything, everything has to be overwritten and in your face. The second half is something similar we're seeing another industries with consolidation, too many people the top level coming in and out having different ideas with no clear sense of ownership. It is designed by committee and through unanimous consent. That is an art, it's engineering.
Sorting through the usual dull haters in comments is always a chore. "fans" , give me a break, lol, its like dealing with petulant, children. That being said, Personally I can see the elements, you mentioned, of interference in the series. I find it remarkable that its managed to maintain integrity, this is due to the powerful actors that carry it through each episode, and not to the industry egos demanding bits of their personal vision muddying the waters. As always, we the viewer, seek out consistency, which has never been more important in an age of binge watching. I'm invested and chuffed that the universe has been expanded and fleshed through this series, its characters given a face and its stories told. And I love it !. I'm reminded how vague, for all its world building, all of DUNE can leave so many seemingly important elements unanswered, civilizations, events ignored and conflicting. I'm reminded this gives a realism, an historical context of what is written and what actually happened, how a story can be myth and a truth lost in time. So any conflict in the series to me is forgivable, after ten thousand years, one would imagine history would be fragmented, and a telling of it as difficult as any, besides the universe of DUNE is quite simply gigantic and monstrous. I'm extremely excited to have this series to wet my thirst and despite the phenomenal lack of optimism and wonder in our contemporary Zeitgeist, I personally cant wait for more.
This show could have 100% worked. The first 3 episodes should have been the 30 years before stuff, then a time jump and then the Desmond Hart stuff rounds out the last 3 episodes. It would have strengthened the story and kind of softened the disappointment
I'm not a "Dune fan", but have seen the original movie many times; it's as good as any other sci-fi. Loved the 2 recent movies, which made me look at the other Dune series etc, all good. But I really, really liked Prophecy; watched it 4 times already, maybe now I can say I'm a Dune fan? I look forward to reading the books. I can fully appreciate that for some/many Dune fans this recent series just doesn't fit. That's a shame for them. I'm glad I watched it with no real knowledge of the lore.
IDK what the show would have been like, but I can only say that as a FH Dune fan, this first season had me half sleep for the majority part of it. Like be honest, if you are not a fan of FH Dune, does this season has any replayability value outside maybe two scenes? IDK, I feel like this is not looking like a Battlestar Galactica or Star Gate series that I feel can be rewatched. I hope they do something that can change that for s2 or this show I feel will be done. Edit: sorry for my bad English.
I think some of us who read the original Dune books had unrealistic expectations. I agree Dune Prophesy is its own thing, but it’s still the Dune universe. The TV series just doesn’t seem to have an atmosphere of a post machine jihad where billions were killed.
I love the core Dune books. I dislike the Brian-Kevin connection, even if I'm friends with Kevin (he knows I don't like his Dune stuff and we've been on panels debating what he took from it and what most of us have). Anyway, I saw lots of promise in bits, but also a lot of eye rolls and scoffs. It either tries too hard to explain things that aren't needed (we don't need the origins of the voice) or just throws in things for fan service while not understanding the thing (face dancers). I stuck it out more for curiosity than anything else. Also, many of the actors are giving everything they can.
May be an unpopular opinion, but I'm glad the fan of the Lynch movie didn't do the series. Not to say what we got was a massive success, or that there weren't lots of problems with the production of it, but personally, I like the continuity with the films. The films created such a strong visual language that it would have been a shame not to have it tie in.
The Harkonnen origins were interesting, but here Brian Herbert contradicted himself. Lankiveil wasn't the original homeworld of the Harkonnens in the House Harkonnen novel. They occupied it only few hundred years before Dune. Yes, I know that in the Schools trilogy, suddenly Lankiveil became their homeland.
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I really hope this was the last video from Prophecy. is not even intersting to hear you talk about it (and i like most of your videos) but damn.. this show sucks. ngl
If you're asking what went wrong with you I would say your head canon betrayed you.
Brian Herbert is what went wrong
100%
True
Read Franks books many times over. Haven’t even considered a cover of Brian’s
lol yes
I mean yeah, but I always saw his books as like "The Kelvin Universe" of DUNE.
Like hundreds of productions in the past 15 years, everything is there -- but a script.
Yup. No vision. Ironic, huh?
I just found it a bit boring and I found scenes at “clubs” didn’t quite fit in. The music was too contemporary for our time and not something I would imagine people necessarily listening to ten thousand years from now. It took me right out of the immersion.
I found all of those nightclub scenes really hard to watch. Felt like I was watching Hollyoaks or something.
I wish the club scenes were more interesting and the music was different as well, they could have made it so cool and it kind of fell flat.
The club scenes were really the only aspect I had an issue with. Seemed odd and unncessary to me.
Instead of a night club, they could have gone to high-end restaurant or private supper club that would have fit in much better in Frank Hubert's vision❤.
Not only are the club scenes kinda wack but they've got members of the royal family scampering about without bodyguards or adequate security. Herbert's books made it clear you couldn't even get within touching distance
I would have taken that limited series through the Chernobyl guy. Oh well.
🎯
As a Dune book fan and a fan of Denis’ movies I felt the same way about this show that you expressed on the live streams. Total mixed bag with some good some cringe. But I was just on a work trip 2 days ago and at dinner with clients this show came up in conversation and everyone at the table had seen the show, maybe half had seen the movies, and other than me none have had read any of the books. They ALL said it’s amazing and I was shocked because I thought that if anyone would like it it would be the book fans who understand the sci-fi behind it all and appreciated could appreciate Easter eggs from the books in an otherwise inconsistent show. But it turns out the mainstream crowd are actually the most excited about it and felt like it was cohesive and coherent and engaging. So that’s interesting.
I def reckon the "nightclub thing" was definitely "by committee" 🤣
Yeah, that really felt shoehorned in as it was completely out of place.
and the sex
worst part of the show and there were a few dumbass scenes
The synthetic music would be heretical .
I actually think the whole rest of the show was moreso by committee just based on how unimaginative and derivative it all was. Diet GoT in Dune skin.
I see all the flaws and cannot argue. I still enjoyed it, however. Hopefully season two will be better.
Funny because GOT went yo SHIT by season 7 😅@Airhead348
I enjoyed lots of elements of the show as well! As I said in this video, I still have hope that season 2 will improve the show overall. I look forward to making more theory videos about it in the future.
yeah it has it's problems, but as far as tv goes it's above average. and that's good enough for me when it comes to Dune content. But obviously there were going to be comparisons to the most recent movies.. nobody could live up to that.
I enjoyed it also looking forward to next season
The artistry and special effects in Dune Prophecy series were fantastic and kept to the lore of Dune. The series did a good job explaining the deep seated hatred between the Harkonnen and the Atreides and their ongoing blood feud against one another. You had to admire the dedication of getting close to the enemy by seducing a young, gullible & naive Atreides member to kill most of his bloodline. It is almost reminiscent of Arya's destruction of House Frey in Game of Thrones except the possibility the sister may have been falling in love doubting her purpose there. Their passionate night of love making may have produced an offspring allowing her to ease any guilt she may have felt when she secretly poisoned the entire clan.
I was very disappointed when the series started to introduce advanced abilities and technologies so early in the show. The human race had just thrown off the immense yoke of machine oppression only several years ago and turmoil would be the order of the day. Life on an untold number of planets would have been wiped out of existence. Religious zealotry would be prevalent throughout human dominated worlds. Entire societies would be turned upside as humans struggle to adapt to a world of less advanced technology, particularly without artificial intelligence assistance. You may have hidden alcoves of hidden technology such as the Sisterhood's sentient machine beneath their school, but prejudices amongst the members would uncover the secret.
Spice should not have been discovered for generations and only through great hardship & accidental discovery. Fleeing bands of desperate humans, who would later form the Fremen, would arrive at Arrakis when it was still a lush green planet and it slowly changes to a forbidding desert due to introducing an ecological disaster upon it. Refugees may have accidentally brought primitive sandtrout to Arrakis and could not combat them effectively since they were be cut off from the rest of human civilization. Arrakis would become a forgotten lost world for hundreds, if not thousands, of years. The high risk of space travel without thinking machines or space navigators and the cataclysmic history of the Bulterian Jihad could explain this easily.
The Sisterhood and other organizations would be embryonic at best in this time in history, approximately ten thousand years before Paul Atreides. The Atreides wold not been trusted or respected by other houses since their ancestors may have served the machines as trusted slaves. Communication & interplanetary travel between worlds would be difficult and involve high risk of crashing into a star or a wayward gravitational anomaly. Thousands of worlds separated from everyone else would explain the neo-feudalistic system which Dune employs. These worlds would fall under their own primitive devices & meager resources until they are incorporated under the empire at a later time.
I'm a massive Dune fan. Loved the recent movie adaptations. Wanted to love this. It was boring...full stop.
I fell asleep in the first 10 minutes. Tried re-watching and noticed the glaring nothingness
I'm not a Dune fan. Loved the recent movie adaptations. Watched this 4 times. It was intriguing... 3 full stops. (+1)
I feel for you missing out on something. I'm a Tolkien fan; we took it worse with ROP. I only watched 3 episodes of that and am still suffering from my loss of potential happiness it should've given.
Agreed
It’s just putrid. I too love Dune. I loved the original movie, for all its shortcomings it’s what got me into the Dune World… but it’s as though the Dune Prophecy series embraces everything that’s wrong with the modern World ie the people with in charge just do no get it.
Be careful what you wish for. I'm glad it was a little boring instead of being some modern Star Trek etc.
I agree with the Lynch approach as far as the art style. Its one thing to be reading a book where the BGs are described amazingly, while dressed as boring as possible. But for visual media, I prefer to see the main characters with more flair, taste, and personality than the 1860s funurel garb seen in the show.
Lynch's vision was sublime... when I read the books I read it with his images in mind.
@@miamijim5964 Lynch's version has Faux Baroque and late Victorian Steampunk all over it. And that is Great. Villeneuve's aesthetic was grand, but bland.
Fwiw Lynch was a graduate of the PA Academy of the Fine Arts which was in Philadelphia.
Sadly the school no longer exists. But the building where it.was still exists. It's a fanciful late Victorian creation by Frank Furness.
Lynch was hit and miss. Some hit and a lot of miss. Like the film but there are some very serious issues in it.
@@menninkainen8830 The main issue with Lynch's version were the producers. And then him whining about it, ad infinitum. And any adaptation will have its "hit and miss". And villeneuves version is not immune to it.
I was so mesmerized by the world building that it held my attention. I get the criticism overall and could have been a more solid story telling. So many stand out actors.
David lynch is still my Dune. That looked incredible in the big screen when it came out, and it’s one of those movies which isn’t the same if you only saw it on tv. It was one of the major influences in my life and part of the reason I became an illustrator.
This new show I lost interest the moment the trailer came out and it had the same visual style as the new movies and the environment looked the same despite the show was set thousands of years ago.
I don’t like spin offs and I’m not a fan of Brian Herbert’s work at all.
I enjoyed the show, overall, but the thing bugged me from the start was how much everything was so much the same as in the movies, from set design to technologies.
Showing a first stage Imperium still recovering from the stated devastation of fighting the machines would have allowed the original "weird" world, Lynchian concept to work and still let the actual story connect (more indirectly than what they gave us) with the movies.
What they gave us shows a static universe basically unchanged for 10,000 years, the biggest failure of the series, imo.
They really play too safe with it
the hole point of dune is how humanity became stagnant tf
A static universe where humanity hasnt progressed for 10 thousand year? Be crazy if someone did something about that, say...followed some sort of path. A precious path because it will uplift all of humanity, but like another word that means something valuable idk. We can figure it out later. Anyways, this guy will follow this path to force humanity to progress. What do yall think?
Exactly. Like why is the Bene Gesserit fully formed a mere 100 years after the Bulerian Jihad. Same with Voice. To me, voice is something that was developed and researched over centuries, but nope, Valya just magically discovers it and then magically transfers that knowledge to her sisters
@@slykeren8371she taught them the voice. It wasn't magic.
I started liking the show more with the last episodes. I couldn’t wait for the last couple. I love the actors and the plans within plans intrigue. I’m glad the series is closer to the DV movies and not another style. I feel that’s what’s happened with Rings OP and I can’t even watch that. The Sisterhood still seems young and they make mistakes but they learn for next time. I’m really looking forward to season 2.
Let's not forget that the first pilot for "Game Of Thrones", directed originally by Todd McCarthy, was also scrapped and abandoned. Same for the GOT prequel series "Blood Moon" aka "The Long Night" (with Naomi Watts as a Stark)... it wasn't just the pilot that was scrapped, but the entire series.
I want to see that pilot episode.......,
They keep doing this. They gamble with bad writing, they let their army of producers have their pathetic input everywhere and create trash that oftentimes makes very little sense.
It was based on Brian's work. Which is inferior to his fathers work and kinda paint by numbers/obvious Sci-Fi without depth. I didn't like Prophecy for several reasons, some casting decisions etc, but fundamentally Brians contributions just don't feel Dune-y to me.
Exactly! Apart from its being really boring, the fact that it's based on Brian Herbert/Kevin Anderson's trash novels means it lacks the richness and depth that makes Frank Herbert's Dune such a compelling work.
The problem with this is two-fold: there's very little lore on the early post-jihad Duniverse outside of Brian's books and the sort-of-but-not-really canon Encyclopedia, and the Dune estate is still pretty much managed by Brian. So if you want to do anything with Dune it's with HIS Dune. Lynch's Dune caused a lot of friction in how it deviated from source and the estate hasn't allowed anything like it since. As much as I dislike the overt Terminator-esque interpretation of the Butlerian Jihad its all we're ever going to see in media.
After the second episode I wasn’t sure exactly who they were writing the show for.
Drunken wine aunt, thrice divorced, cat ladies is my guess.
For nobody. It's just crap from stupid people without any knowledge about the story
i figured it must be for people who like watching programs about english school mistresses
I was turned off after the 1st episode
@@GradStudentTutorialsyeah, maybe if you actually watched the whole thing…
The bizarre and the strange is exactly what is missing from these recent productions. It’s as if the creators are afraid of taking chances, and instead made a watered down drama that could have been shown on syndicated tv.
That's not the creators. That's the studio. Unless you're a BIG name, you are taking and accepting notes and suggestions from the studio in order to get your show made. It's a business and the studio holds the purse strings and they want it to be profitable.... so they get in their own way sometimes by watering down the shows or use the current popular format to ensure viewership.
I actually like Dune prophecy,it was full of plot twists,had my fav actor Travis playing a main character ( finally again!) and the dialogues where beautifully written.The aesthetics and costumes where spot on for me .The only thing that didn't fit for me was the club scenes and some sex scenes like Konstantin's that took time screen without adding anything to the plot.Other than that I'm fully invested and can't wait to see more!
The dialogue was terrible. Some great, expensive actors wasted spouting drivel.
Dialogue was uninspired, used merely to advance the plot but not to reveal character. Nobody has anything interesting to say.
Travis Fimmel was the best part of the series. Choreography of fights was a BIG step down from Paul and Feyd and Duncan. The show wasn’t totally bad, though. They made some silly choices, such as your aptly termed “CW” content. I also hope that season two improves on and learns from season 1. BG and TL as competing messianic prophecies would be interesting. Both are using genetic manipulation, and they are oppositional as male and female dominated societies. Ultimately, it can be argued that TL succeeded with Hayt.
True Detective season 1 was amazing because it had 1 director and 1 writer for it's 8 episode run.
It used to be that one person would create the basic design for the show, including the characters, technology, and so on, and write a "bible" that the writers would have to adhere to. Now it seems that even that part is done by committee, leading to much lower quality shows.
This show could have 100% worked with a little editing. The first 3 episodes should have been the 30 years before stuff, then a time jump and then the Desmond Hart stuff rounds out the last 3 episodes. It would have strengthened the story and made the emotional beats hit harder
Yeah, idk why a lot of writers/showrunners nowadays think it's a good idea to jump everywhere in time. It can work if done well, but it seems like almost every show does this now. Would be nice if we could watch a show that was told in chronological order for once
@ exactly! Not every story benefits from non-linear storytelling
The show was a chore. I tapped out. It was especially unwatchable coming right off The Penguin.
It was just so boring, right? It's only six episodes and yet still they didn't have enough content to really fill out those six.
Salusa Secundus was the homeworld of House Corrino. The Harkonnens' was Geidi Prime 🙂
My biggest problem with the show is that the machine crusade is over but billions died and you see no one with ptsd, no building crumbling, no rituals remembering the dead, etc.
It been over 100 years. Seems pretty legit. WW2 wasn't even that long ago and you couldn't tell. Despite my city being pretty much flattened.
There's a few monuments and that's it.
It's been more than a hundred years since the machines fell. How long do you think people are supposed to have ptsd? No one alive was in the jihad.
The “thou shall not build a machine in likeness of a human mind” written into religious scripture is the PTSD. The reaction of the people to mere existence of machines is the PTSD. What are you on about?
@@theodorsik Guess this person wants people quivering in a corner.
@@Josep_Hernandez_Lujanyeah but talk shit about the juice out loud or say heil funny moustache man with the salute and people will freak the fuck out. And in Asia, the Chinese are still paranoid about the Japs.
And everybody is still talking mad shit about Russia.
Etc etc etc
Have you been living under a rock?
They changed the name from "Sisterhood" because it was becoming untenable for shows to be "seen as woke", whether it was or not. DEI/Inclusivity/Me-Too movement type stuff actually ended up becoming very heavy handed in other shows and media, and so they feared that any marketing would doom it as a "girl boss" thing. Ironically, the Bene Gesserit are maybe the ONE original IP element that actually totally lives up to the "girl boss" trope.
Hard core original dune books fan… I think dune prophecy was ok… better than I expected…
It’s not perfect but it digs into the Dune universe further than anything ever has. Please don’t outright condemn the series. The later episodes especially are fantastic.
We loved it. Thought it was amazing
I too, like the David Lynch movie. Sure it has its flaws, but for a teenager in the 80's that movie was a trip.
The David Lynch movie looks like it was a school project that was created by a bunch of teenagers on an acid trip. Thank God Alejandro Jodorowsky's adaptation never saw the light of day because it literally would have been that.
Saw it in the theater on release and for that double sided full page cheat sheet of Dune terminology as I walked into the theater. Damn I wish I kept that.
The recent films were pretty good, so far. But the Lynch film was really fun! Removing control from a really good director and surrendering it to a corporate committee resulted in the "product" you see in "Dune Prophecy".
I chuckled at every use of the Voice. Ma'am, have a lozenge please.
I love the Lynch estethics and would have loved a show more akin to his vision. But from a pure business sense HBO would have been stupid not to base it on the new movies, considering their success. I'd love to see Johans pilot though.
I think creativity by commitee is truly detrimental to almost any production, be it TV show, Movies, or video games, these are the mediums I have noticed it having an unpleasant effect anyways
I really liked most of it. It was much more about intrigue, which got short shrift in the movies (even though I loved them). My only complaint was the scene at the end where the mother superior reveals everything to the emperor basically under cutting her plans in the prior scene. I didn’t;t understand that at all. It made no sense to do that big reveal at that point and caused a bunch of problems.
That got her arrested and was an assurance for the emperors death as she did not trust the sister to go through with the poison if the emperor believed she really loved him.
It was a very Dune thing. Plans within plans. I liked how the entire series was about just layers and layers of plans both sides made.
A Dune show that isn't really Dune. Could have been cool, or it could have been the Star Trek Discovery of Dune, which I would have hated. I didn't hate Dune Prophecy. Could have been better in parts, but I didn't hate it at all.
For me I was surprised how good and faithful it was. Because I was expecting Discovery or something similar. Even if it was far from perfect it actually tried. We all know it obviously could never be on par with the original trilogy.
I really loved getting more Dune content! Being new but falling hard & absorbing tons of lore from passionate creators.. I know enough respect the father & son’s work with perspective, being two halves of a whole. His son did better than Disney with Star Wars and I was excited to watch every Dune Prophecy episode. I love the whole history & world building. I never comment on TH-cam videos lol
I’m so confused lol I loved it and thought it was great
As one that hated the 1984 DUNE movie, I like that they went in a different direction. I have yet to finish the show,I am way behind, I generally enjoy it so far. My biggest gripe will always be downplaying to almost leaving the Spacing Guild out.
Where do you get all this brilliant analysis ideas from! This is one of the best videos overall I've ever watched!
Thank you! I try to keep an eye out for articles and topics that I find interesting and I list them in a word document. Simple as that. Cheers!
I just don't get why everything is set 10'000 years before the movies, and it all looks exactly the same. It even falls into the Star Wars trap of everything feeling small in what is meant to be a fictional UNIVERSE, like it's on entirely different planets tens of thousands of years before the movies and it's still all about House Harkonnen, House Corrino, and House Atreides. I would've thought that only a few years after the Butlerian Jihad the galaxy would be in a sort of Dark Age, but no, everything looks pretty much exactly the same as in Villeneuve's masterpiece films. I honestly think ot would all work if they had just said it was set a THOUSAND years before, not TEN thousand.
If he thought "we can do whatever we want with it" he wasn't the right director for Dune.
I just finished the series. Had so many questions I read book 1 and messiah before I finished it. There is no comparison to the lore- Herbert was at least to me painting with a brush these producers had no idea existed- or hollywood in recent years has been forgetting with all their “recent” failures.
The show made most people look like harkonnens. Hollywood has a “stale cookie cutter” problem at least for me. I liked some of the acting and set design. But Herbert is still the master, hands down
I am always amazed at how You Tubers have so much to say about Dune and have barely read any of the books. For those of us that can’t get enough and have read not only all 6 Frank Herbert books more than once as well as all the Brian Herbert books, we are just happy to have more. Of course Brian will never match his father, but he does have insight from his father. I think the writing in Prophecy is very good compared to most of the horrible writing out there.
This is what Emily Watson told Tatiana Hullender from Screen Rant about the second season of "Dune Prophecy": "I think we are going to start in the fall [2025], and I don’t know anything [about Valya’s story]. I know nothing, so I’m just as excited as you are.".
It is mind boggling how long it takes these days to get the second season for most large scale shows in production. That means that Season 2 of the show won't come out until late 2026 again, more than likely around the two year mark. Mind you there's been no announcement as to the number of episodes yet. Still, even there's an increase in the number of episodes for the second season, the total number can't be more than 8 or 10 max.
"The Walking Dead", "Game Of Thrones", "Boardwalk Empire", "Deadwood", "ROME" and others managed to deliver one season per year. In the case of GOT they delivered 60 episodes aka the first six seasons between 2011-2016. Nevermind the network TV series like "Law&Order" for example, which used to deliver 22-24 episodes per season, year after year. How the hell is it possible that a show like "Dune Prophecy" will take almost two years to produce a second season?!
Even "Andor", besides the obvious delays from the strikes in 2023, it would have taken 2.5 years between Season One and Season Two, granted each season has twelve episodes that range from 45 minutes to 1 hour...and it is a massive production...but still...something has definitely changed and not for the better. It gets even more frustrating when you wait that long for a show...which then ends up cancelled...
I wonder how much Brian and Kevin input on the series effected the production
SO MUCH HATE...UGHHH!!! Have any of these TH-camrs actually read the Brian Herbert books this show is based off of??? Now an actual analysis of the plot in the books vs the show would actually be meaningful.
You can't make good art by committee, someone needs to be in charge,
I liked the show more than I thought I would. I really like Lila, the actress has some charisma.
Chernobyl was one of the best works by HBO, and he did a great job.
I fell asleep during the last episode, only to wake up to all the plot twists, and cliffhangers.
Love your channel, keep up the content
What is the quiet background music in the main body of your videos please?
It was always going to have issues due to it's being based of Brian Herbert and Kevin Andersons views.
I stopped watching after a few episodes. My ears couldn't take it.
Dune the novels read like an inner voice first person narrator. Example (paul left the room) is written like " paul thought, as im leaving this room the feint scent of spice elicits a question, why do these off worlders smell of such oppulence, how can they afford such quantity, smugglers paul thought, these men must be the smugglers duncan warned of in these southern regions, i must not let them know i know" paul thought now going back to the palace.
Its hard to turn that into film.
Let's make this really short: This series is sell out garbage and has NOTHING to do with dune besides the name.
hey nerd cookies glad your still here making videos🙂
Prophesy did feel a bit narratively disjointed however I'd still have to say this show at its worst rivalled most of the Disney / Marvel / SW shows at their best (Andor excepted) Lacklustre isn't a dumpster fire. In a lot of ways DV's Dune should have been an HBO series as it only caught the very surface of the story
This show and house of the dragon had a lot of the same problems in my opinion. The women are strong and always right, the men are stupid warmongers, and it’s scene after scene of meetings and tons awkward silences with lots of exasperated sighing. For the same reason the left can meme, they can’t make a show either. Absolutely terrible execution on a great concept
Thanks Elaine
I once read a critic describe Dune as Game of Thrones in space. To me, Dune: Prophecy reminded me of someone seeing this critics review and only reading that one line. And decided not to learn anything more about the book and just went with creating Game of Thrones with some spaceships thrown in. I really wanted to like a series, but it’s not Dune.
the way they flat out state that women can't hold positions of power lol GTFO whoever wrote the show never even sniffed a Dune book
Great video as always. Going to start busting through Prophecy this weekend.
Let me know what you think!
Bravo 👏 i second your compliment.
I just want to grab the sheepish haters in this comments section that bleet about how negative stuff is and scream in their faces "where the hell is YOUR youtube channel and videos that critique Dune and its related media?".
There's an appropriate saying 'You can't make a silk purse out of a pigs ear'. The B Herbert/K Anderson books just aren't as well written as Frank's work, and you can only do so much with poor materials.
As someone who has gone from being a design and creative Director and moving into more film directing, I'm heavy on design systems in visual language. I think to your point it's fine if they would've straight away from the visual language of the movies so long as they were some type of threads or nuances that felt connected in somewayTo show that they how they build up to what we see in the films however I don't think you should ever go too far away and you also need a reason for something to exist. This show felt like it was an endeavor to capitalize on a potential IP and universe as opposed to it being well considered.
Frumpy women vaguely and slowly plotting. A boring show. What a waste.
Further proof that when the suits get involved, chaos follows. Hoping for a season 2.
3:59 small gripe but I had an issue with the camera lenses used, too much wide angle and spherical distortion (not as bad as a go pro) but would have preferred tighter shots and more cinematic look. Examples include Star Wars: Andor or Band of Brothers
I was not sure I liked it at 1st but then it grew on me by the end. then I rewatched the entire series a 2nd time and enjoyed it even more. I actually liked it better than the Dune movies. Lots of intrigue, great story, great actors and very unpredictable. Cant wait for season 2.
I couldn't get past the godawful narration at the start of the very first episode. I felt that if this is the tone they're setting for the show, I want no part of it. Clicked it off and never went back again.
I can see the budget and the acting is universally good, the top stars especially. Maybe a few too many characters.
Thank you for your videos!
I think all the season 1 tyrant talk absolutely ties into Paul and Leto and is setting up Dune 3 and possibly later books.From a writing perspective it's easy to set up a Chekov's Tyrant that you can use later on as you wish.
I wonder if certain subplots within the first season could be tied into certain production units and writers? Would be interesting to see whose vision works best within the series.
The Dune books are great sci fi books because they focus on the exploration of ideas and the world building and plots are extensions of the ideas. The Brian Herbert material looks like either world building for the sake of world building or set piece dramas to show off the scenery.
Dune resembles Star Wars so people want to mindlessly copy the youtube-strategy for Star Wars and just make money out of incompetent hate against any new media from the franchise, I'm so glad it doesn't work and people are actually forced to criticize it seriously
Frank accused George of copying his settings.
I found the writing a big disappointment with Dune Prophecy, and won't be looking in next season.
Whelp, glad I wasn’t the only one who thought those scenes stood out. I should rewatch the series…I liked it well enough and I have some time on my hands to reinvest in a binge….just don’t quite have the appetite for a second helping of it yet. The club…where the hell was it even? Clearly on Salusa Secundus. That said, the first time the princes and prince skirt off in their Tesla Hoverstone, they depart from the castle. Any other time the environment transitions to the club it feels like it’s just an extension of the palace itself. It takes no time for Kerian to meet up with the revolutionaries, and when Desmond raided the bar it also seemed a quick march away from….wherever the proto-Sardaukar idled until needed. The sets, the bar aside, were beautifully designed for the most part, but not exactly thoughtful or willing to flex some imagination, considering the immense span of time that separated this story and the movies (10,000 years?) The interiors and costumes felt far too related. Modernity differs vastly from antiquity, which looses most clarity beyond a few millennium back. Today and 2000 A.D. look nothing like each-other, and that is a fraction of the time differences between these two stories. I imagine humanity would be unrecognizable in most ways given that massive a difference in time. Maybe I need a bit more suspension of disbelief but I had hoped these stories would feel aesthetically distinct. Production was clearly afraid to veer too far away from the visual vocabulary developed in the Denis Villeneuve movies. And if I might just be petty….Desmond Hart is the most ridonkulous sounding name. It feels like the singer in an 80s hair metal band, maybe a bad boy in a tella novella….an 80s hair metal band…… Certainly at points I was invested in the show, but the quality of the writing from episode to episode was uneven, and Im not a fan of leaving so many plot threads open-ended when a second season isn’t guaranteed. It felt….rushed and absolutely deserved 2-4 more episodes to spread out the story a bit, giving some of the side characters and plot threads time to develop further. It was just below Apple TV’s Foundation in my mind. That show started out strong and lost its footing. Here’s hoping Prophecy is doing the opposite….starting unsteadily and catching itself on its sophomore season and becoming something truly special. The budget is there.
I would love to watch the scrapped pilot to see the differences between that and the final version
Hmm not sure I perceived much in the way of layers but it was at least a plan with some subterfuge which was pretty absent from the movies and that is more true in the books. But it seemed pretty to some degree. The emperor was willing to go along with things and purge the sisterhoods enemies. By killing him they handed the throne over to enemies. It’s hard to see how the sisterhood benefited from that call aside from happenstance.
It takes effort to take a rich, textured universe that spans eons....across a galaxy with warring factions... strange mysterious races and technology.....and make it boring.
This could have been such a good thing.
Didn’t even get through ep 1 before I fast forwarded. Just all talking, 4x fast forward ep 2 and it’s… all talking.
Not interesting enough characters to justify the time. I’m sorry but you can’t just have pretty people and pretty sets. Too little effort going into shows these days.
Loved all the Dune books, even listened to the audiobooks, and the movies are great. Show is a 1/10
Why does everything have to be explained? Why can't movies just leave things up to the mystery... Like star wars... my god... lets explaaaain everything... good toddlers..
Not surprising. You can see it on the screen when watching, that this show had a troubled production and issues behind the scenes.
Pitch: "We can make a story set in the Dune universe, but set it 10,000 years before the book and set it away from Arrakis and expand the universe and lore. No sandworms or sand. Just politics, intrigue and worldbuilding the Bene Gesserit and the imperial throne."
HBO: "Great!"
Last scene of Season 1: Main characters arriving on Arrakis.
I think the more interesting story that connects to the overall story of the books would have been the Butlerian Jihad. Now that would be worth telling. Thinking machines after all are the ultimate antagonist.
Great world building but the writing shat the spice bed.
All icing and no cake. Coming out of 2018, I think we all knew where this was going to go. Considering Hollywood is obsessed with identity politics, particularly boss girl superheroes, I didn't think this was going to go any other way. I had a hope that the story of The sisterhood had enough intrinsic examples of female power, but it seems like the writers just can't be subtle about it. They don't understand the subtlety of anything, everything has to be overwritten and in your face.
The second half is something similar we're seeing another industries with consolidation, too many people the top level coming in and out having different ideas with no clear sense of ownership. It is designed by committee and through unanimous consent. That is an art, it's engineering.
@BrianHerbertTryant shit makes no sense.
lol sure
Sorting through the usual dull haters in comments is always a chore. "fans" , give me a break, lol, its like dealing with petulant, children. That being said, Personally I can see the elements, you mentioned, of interference in the series.
I find it remarkable that its managed to maintain integrity, this is due to the powerful actors that carry it through each episode, and not to the industry egos demanding bits of their personal vision muddying the waters. As always, we the viewer, seek out consistency, which has never been more important in an age of binge watching. I'm invested and chuffed that the universe has been expanded and fleshed through this series, its characters given a face and its stories told.
And I love it !.
I'm reminded how vague, for all its world building, all of DUNE can leave so many seemingly important elements unanswered, civilizations, events ignored and conflicting. I'm reminded this gives a realism, an historical context of what is written and what actually happened, how a story can be myth and a truth lost in time. So any conflict in the series to me is forgivable, after ten thousand years, one would imagine history would be fragmented, and a telling of it as difficult as any, besides the universe of DUNE is quite simply gigantic and monstrous.
I'm extremely excited to have this series to wet my thirst and despite the phenomenal lack of optimism and wonder in our contemporary Zeitgeist, I personally cant wait for more.
This show could have 100% worked. The first 3 episodes should have been the 30 years before stuff, then a time jump and then the Desmond Hart stuff rounds out the last 3 episodes. It would have strengthened the story and kind of softened the disappointment
I'm not a "Dune fan", but have seen the original movie many times; it's as good as any other sci-fi. Loved the 2 recent movies, which made me look at the other Dune series etc, all good. But I really, really liked Prophecy; watched it 4 times already, maybe now I can say I'm a Dune fan? I look forward to reading the books. I can fully appreciate that for some/many Dune fans this recent series just doesn't fit. That's a shame for them. I'm glad I watched it with no real knowledge of the lore.
Would recommend a deesser for your audio track. (not trying to hate here)
IDK what the show would have been like, but I can only say that as a FH Dune fan, this first season had me half sleep for the majority part of it. Like be honest, if you are not a fan of FH Dune, does this season has any replayability value outside maybe two scenes? IDK, I feel like this is not looking like a Battlestar Galactica or Star Gate series that I feel can be rewatched. I hope they do something that can change that for s2 or this show I feel will be done.
Edit: sorry for my bad English.
I think some of us who read the original Dune books had unrealistic expectations. I agree Dune Prophesy is its own thing, but it’s still the Dune universe. The TV series just doesn’t seem to have an atmosphere of a post machine jihad where billions were killed.
I love the core Dune books. I dislike the Brian-Kevin connection, even if I'm friends with Kevin (he knows I don't like his Dune stuff and we've been on panels debating what he took from it and what most of us have).
Anyway, I saw lots of promise in bits, but also a lot of eye rolls and scoffs. It either tries too hard to explain things that aren't needed (we don't need the origins of the voice) or just throws in things for fan service while not understanding the thing (face dancers). I stuck it out more for curiosity than anything else. Also, many of the actors are giving everything they can.
Yeah, I'm Lynch's Dune fan as well, weird and awesome.
May be an unpopular opinion, but I'm glad the fan of the Lynch movie didn't do the series. Not to say what we got was a massive success, or that there weren't lots of problems with the production of it, but personally, I like the continuity with the films. The films created such a strong visual language that it would have been a shame not to have it tie in.
The Harkonnen origins were interesting, but here Brian Herbert contradicted himself. Lankiveil wasn't the original homeworld of the Harkonnens in the House Harkonnen novel. They occupied it only few hundred years before Dune.
Yes, I know that in the Schools trilogy, suddenly Lankiveil became their homeland.