🔥 Get two actual heist adventures to use in your 5e and PF2e games PLUS our special heist house rules! www.patreon.com/thedmlair or thedmlair.com/collections/lair-magazine/products/heists-havoc-lair-magazine-38-february-2024-issue
You forgot the most important step. ASK YOUR PLAYERS IF THEY WANT AN ACTUAL HEIST ADVENTURE! I personally wouldn't want a stealthy heist adventure. Rather prefer a Raid type to get such a special item. Finally, a dead guard is easier then a live one to get past.
Hey Luke, thanks for everything that you do. Could you please give or make a video where you give tips on how to add homebrew components to a module? Such as how to make Tales from the Yawning Portal into a single campaign?
Probably not for everyone, but one method I’ve found really fun for protracted stealth sessions is stealing from the Dread system the idea of using a Jenga tower. Initial stealth rolls determine how frequently each player has to pull one (or more, on a terrible roll) blocks from the tower. When it falls (for any reason!) stealth is broken. The dice & stats still mostly determine the outcome, but it creates a great feeling of pervasive tension the whole span of the mission.
this is actually a really fun adventure. Gives that 'tactile' nail biting feeling to every failed roll. It also moves stealth failure from fully random chance to partial player input.
The ideas for initiative make a lot of sense, because a heist is a lot different from combat, now that I think about it. Also what you say about perception and stealth sounds key. Make it varied to keep everyone involved.
I started my current campaign with a heist. They needed to gather some evidence for some shady dealings of a noble. Their patron told them it was an unofficial mission as the city cant authorize a search without evidence. So if they get caught they will be treated as criminal and he wont be able to help in any way. Worked like a charm
I’m currently planning something similar. A campaign where every PC is a member of a thieve’s guild. They don’t have to be rogues, but they have to have the same boss.
0:49 What is a Heist? (comparing a Typical Adventure and a Heist. A Heist generally condemns the "Guns Blazing" approach.) 3:34 Casing the Joint (What is the party up against? Scouting, leaked intel, spying on patrols) 4:34 Planning the Heist (If they're indecisive to the point of a loop, put up a poll with each choice they have) 6:41 Executing the Heist (Enemies react as they would in an adventure, though there are intricacies) 7:42 How to create a Heist to challenge the players 1) Define the objective, likely with complications. 8:44 2) Concept the Heist (Potential methods of solving it, at least 3 most viable & obvious.) 10:01 3) Flesh it out (Obstacles; including traps, patrols, information, puzzles; helper objects - control room.) 11:22 Pro-Tips - Location should be surveyable enough - Have more than one entrance. - Multiple objectives; no guards are to be killed, do not set off the central alarm, and a deadline. - Secrets; only discoverable during the execution. 13:01 How to RUN it at the table. (Adjudicate accordingly. Do not CLING to your plans, and if they have an exotic approach in mind, maybe put something in the Heist for them to have a better chance at it.) 15:08 Move things around (If the party decides to not check the place it's in, put it elsewhere they decide to, within reason) 16:19 House Rules - Think of ways other skills can reasonably be used, trying to avoid Perception spam. - Same for Stealth; impersonating (Performance), cling to ceiling beams (Athletics/Acrobatics). Ask the player to justify. 19:32 Heist Initiative 21:35 Heist Combat House Rules + Plug 22:38 Running a RAID (Time is of the essence.)
Ran a "infiltration" just the other day in my PF2E campaign (a heist without stealing anything). They were trying to destabilize a crime gang's casino/brothel using the infiltration rules in the PF2E Gamemaster book. I just in time got the latest issue of the GM Lair and incorporated some ideas in there including the "heist combat" to take out guards quickly and the alternative rules for stealth. It worked very well. Now that the casino has experienced financial ruin, the party's next objective is ruining the gang leader's in-town reputation (again using the obstacle rules of PF infiltration) to drive him out of town or goad him into a battle royale.
An important thing to remember when planning a heist-venture is your party composition. If your party is 5 combat munchkins and 1 skill monkey, maybe don't run a stealthy heist. Plan a quick raid smash and grab, Payday 2 style. Make your plan apropos for your party composition, the whole square peg in the square hole thing. Leave room for the skill monkey to do their skill monkeying, but expect it to go hot at some point because you have 5 other players who want to preform that good old ultraviolence.
For general encounter types that involve a lot of planning, here is how I like to think of things: The encounter may have 10 "difficulty points". If they run in guns blazing they will get absolutely stomped because they can only handle five difficulty points. But with doing work such as recon, gathering information, and making special gear / gadgets, I will allow that to count towards the difficulty points. So when they actually get to the inevitable climax confrontation, there are only five difficulty points remaining and they can mop it up in combat. So put simply, I commoditize the work and planning they do ahead of time, directly towards making the dice rolling action be easier. The way this manifests in the actual scenario can show up in different ways. Like, figuring out how to deal damage to an otherwise and vulnerable boss. Or gaining the key to an otherwise unsolvable puzzle. But it uses the same general rubric.
More than half of a heist is in the planning and preparation. I ran a pulp adventure (infiana jones style) wild wild west white wolf game with a mage in the party that could scry. They would map evey part of the dungeon, makes excrutiating plans, and any trap or bad guy the mage hadnt expected would be brute forced by the brujah vampire with lightning fast super strength. Then the rival mage rides in and takes their goodies at gun point. So in the second dungeon the vampire swalloed the relic and they gave him an ellaborite fake. My players absolutely loved this upside down gameplay. Good times.
This is brilliant guidance! And not just the general outlines: the three ways to win concept, the ticking clock, the guards having lives, and moving a puzzle just a bit if needed. My next heist will be much better for watching this. Thank you!
The heist initiative is a good thing to have in many games out of combat I'd imagine. I like the idea from is it blades? Guy Sclanders mentions it and Briea uses it in ExU. Where you have a " I planned for this" kind of mechanic
Yes I prefer the “I planned for this” mechanic as well. Because otherwise, either the planning phase is useless because something doesn’t go to plan so now they have to come up with a new plan on the fly. Or if the heist goes exactly as planned it is extremely boring because the execution phase is just the players telling the DM what they are going to do AGAIN after they already did exactly the same during planning.
Hey Luke, thanks for everything that you do. Could you please give or make a video where you give tips on how to add homebrew components to a module? Such as how to make Tales from the Yawning Portal into a single campaign?
Something i've learned with my party when they are in the middle of a planning while in action, is interrumpting with " while you were discussing that, a guard came closer" so they can also feel the time ticking, I wont do it all the time, but just when needed.
I have a suggestion that I use for a couple types of what I call advanced adventures, such as heists, rescues and players new to RPG's or game system. Multiple choice. What I do is create a heist or whatever and then for each decision give multiple choices to each decision. Each decision then has a modifier which either makes it easier, no modifier, or makes it harder. It is important to remember, like you mentioned, however, that other means that you didn't think of be viable as well. Multiple choice is used primarily when introducing a new concept that the players are not familiar with, but you would like them to try. An example might be: You have to break into a castle which in itself is an obstacle, do you; A) Case [Perception] the castle to find all the possible entrances. B) Talk [Persuade or Bribe], one of the staff at a Tavern. [Modifier based on how persuasive you are or money you give.] Or C) Talk [Bluff, Diplomacy or Persuasion] your way into the castle. [Modifier based on how you approach and what you say.] You do not have to use modifiers, but players should be rewarded for good ideas, and this is a intrinsic way of doing that. I stress, to use this system only when dealing with players who are unfamiliar with certain game concepts or systems, they are unfamiliar with. In this way, they learn how to play and what kind of things are expected to happen while also giving them the additional option of making their own choices and ideas once they feel comfortable with the game itself. Play on!
Bit late to this but there's some good stuff here. I'm currently prepping a heist within a Celtic setting - which limits the options somewhat with the "dark age" lack of technology, culture and society - but the overall structure still works as do the tips for game management. Just got to see how they plan to quietly lift the Petty King's prized bull from beneath his nose now! 😄 Cheers mate.
My favorite way to plan out a heist is the borrow heavily from Blade in the Dark. 1. No planning session. As stated it can get boring. We start off with a planning scene, where the GM tells the party the "Major" issues with why this is dangerous. This is how i subtly and nonsubtly tell them its a heist. They talk about all adventures before setting off but if this time they do it and i fast forward to the actual encounter they get the hint its a heist. 2. After the GM gives an overview of all the big problems if the heist then hte heist happens . we go through each major encounter as the PCs approach them, then just before they get to the major challenge we go back to the planning scene that happened in the past. PCs make roles and have encounters in the past that will and may help out with that challenge and only that challenge. This is very free form . During this scene time is important . My players can only do so much in a certain timespan before the actual heist. If two players are going to the bank managers home to figure out secrets to the bank managers code, then those two players can't go to the local pub nearby and poison the security guard leader. 3. Rince repeat and always have a twist or two. Something they heard about but wasn't exactly like they thought it was.
I use something like "heist initiative" in my sci-fi campaign a lot. I have been calling it "general action turns" where, when the crew is split up and time-critical events are happening, such as repairing the ship in an unplanned navigation of a planetary debris ring, I will let each character narrate their actions for the "next minute or so" and ask for one skill roll if needed. - I started doing this as a way to spread play time attention around the (mostly online) "table" so no players felt ignored.
I loved this and followed your recommendations and we ended up having a blast a session evolved to something like a low budget ocean's eleven haha thanks a bunch and a question my players got to a point where they are powerful enough to "run a small town" and wanted to know if there is something I can read or use as a guide to play "age of empires or civilization" in dungeons and dragons or pathfinder??
what do I do when a heist goes wrong? for example when the party gets spotted and trapped by the guarda in the bank? is the campaign over? do the players have to start new? can I build in a dead/bad ending? and if I do... how can I nake it a good bad end? XD or is an ending where everyone fails a bad idea? (i dont have much of an idea how dnd works yet 🤷🏻♂️👍)
I use a simple system when running these types of things: 1. Have a time limit, and 2. Any on-the-fly planning takes ingame time = the real time (so them spending 30 minutes planning when they only have 1 1/2 Hours can be bad for them
I tend to put the item to find in the last room, whatever room that may be. Or in the room I need it to be in to make the story flow / move things forward. The thing to find and the rooms should be flexible to allow it. Like the game Clue but I’m cheating for player experience benefit.
A major part of the movie Conan the Barbarian (Arnold Schwarzenegger, Sandahl Bergman) (second act? third?) includes a heist (second act? third?), with much treasure and a NEARLY insurmountable guard force.
I'm planning a heist for my group right now... and I'm sure, regardless of my planing, the eloquence bard will just stoll in in and bring retrieve the MacGuffin in 5 Minutes.
When planning the heist adventure, you should try to keep the location's defenses as close to your original setup as possible. Unless the players' planning stage exposes a blatantly obvious weakness, don't adjust things just to counter whatever plan they came up with (even then, if you're going to change anything, take into account the people who created these defenses - would *they* have left such a blatantly obvious opening?). I ran a heist where the players had to break into a museum to steal some relics for a crime lord (and a tome that tied into the main campaign), and I'd completely forgotten that one of the players had an ability that lets him pass through stone. My decision was that the dragon who owned the museum wouldn't have considered such abilities in their defenses, as she was arrogant enough to believe that anyone with access to such powers wouldn't have the skills necessary to pose a threat to the museum's other defenses.
Hey Luke quick question, have you ever thought of doing an episode on "how to run an evil campaign" or "how to run a cult?" Im trying to figure out a campaign where the players are evil and part of a cult hunting down Demonomicon of Iggwilv but Im stuck on creating the campaign for this.
I know it’s off-topic, but I’m basically a first time DM who’s past a handful of times In a grope of first time players and my group wants to do StrixHaven they already got the book but I’ve heard it’s not the most filled out. I was thinking about mixing it with Lost Mine Of Phandelver and I could use some tips and I’d like to get anyone’s thoughts.
Any tips on keeping track of time during a heist? A problem that I encounter a lot is that players acting in 6 second rounds don't act the way normal people do because in reality, players have a lot longer than 6 seconds to think about what they want to do or take in the situation. Their characters move like efficient machines heading directly to their objective without stopping or pausing. This creates a problem when players expect the rest of the world to behave normally and start questioning the response time of guards and the timing of other events. For example, if someone spots the players and runs off to get help. Coming back within 5 minutes is a fairly fast response time in the real world, but an eternity in 6 second rounds, so there isn't really a sense of urgency. Alternatively, getting a guard response within 5 rounds does impose a sense of urgency, but it ruins the verisimilitude when players point out that 30 seconds would be an insanely fast response even though it's apparently enough time for players to explore the entire building and even fight off a guard patrol or two.
It was touched on but don't gate the game behind skill checks. If item is hidden in desk and character searches desk they find it. Reward creativity over creating the possible fail state of a bad dice roll -- I'd also add if a roll is a fail then its a fail, no fudging. No yes and or no but... unless your just running a short story.
Nothing NECESSARY to the progression should be skill check gated, but I think it’s fine for checks to have important consequences for HOW the mission progresses. Didn’t find the alarm passcode? Ok, too bad; you can still try to circumvent the security in other (more risky, difficult) ways, and in the worst case scenario maybe you end up in a tough combat. Then when a clever player or perceptive character DOES find the shortcut, it feels like a real victory, not just a freebie the DM was going to give us either way.
In my campaign I have a heist to steal something and scapegoat the PCs for doing it. This requires the PCs (who are now wanted outlaws) to pull off a counter heist to recover the stolen item and then return it to clear their names. This adds both motivation and tension as they are now marked outlaws with escalating prices on their heads. So they need to avoid the law and bounty hunters while also tracking the real crooks back to their lair and then entering and recovering the item and returning it while still being hunted. Having it in their possession is just the start of the adventure, after all if apprehended with it in their possession, it would be proof and an admission of guilt that they were the thieves! And the bounties are still in effect and the bounty hunters are still hot on their trail. How are they going to return it without getting caught and how are they going to clear their names? That requires another negative heist in reverse. So this type of triple whammy heist has plenty of twists and turns and works great. If you really want to shake things up, add in a trusted sleeper mole that was working as an insider, a turncoat spy that was in on the caper all along. Maybe they want to apprehend the PC “thieves” and collect the bounty reward. Or maybe what was stolen was actually a forgery or a fake. It was swapped out prior to the original heist. The real item was heisted by someone else, someone unknown and the real item is still missing! Or it was swapped or stolen by thieves in an ambush after the PCs recovery. The possibilities are endless.
I'm planning one because I made the mistake of mentioning a bank in a large city and while my players are mostly good people they are unhinged kleptomaniacs
I actually do the dropping perception checks thing as a normal thing in my games. Looting for example, requires players to use different checks to find different kinds of loot. Survival for equipment, alchemy for potions, arcana for magic items, medicine for potions, etc.
Get rid of perception, get rid of stealth - so why not get rid of initiative as well? Instead of “heist initiative” you could just go around the table left to right, no need to roll and remember an initiative order.
Cool that you used a book everyone is aware of that isn't a guest but didn't mention Keys from the Golden Vault. I too only choose examples that make my point.
I've never heard of "Keys from the Golden Vault", but I have heard of and purchased "Dragon Heist". I was disappointed, because there's absolutely no heisting in the book.
The writing for all 5th edition adventurers is complete garbage. All they give you is maps and locations and literally no story, no real substance. You have to do it all yourself. This is not why I buy a campaign book. I want the story and a plot. I can make maps by myself.
🔥 Get two actual heist adventures to use in your 5e and PF2e games PLUS our special heist house rules! www.patreon.com/thedmlair or thedmlair.com/collections/lair-magazine/products/heists-havoc-lair-magazine-38-february-2024-issue
You forgot the most important step. ASK YOUR PLAYERS IF THEY WANT AN ACTUAL HEIST ADVENTURE! I personally wouldn't want a stealthy heist adventure. Rather prefer a Raid type to get such a special item.
Finally, a dead guard is easier then a live one to get past.
Hey Luke, thanks for everything that you do.
Could you please give or make a video where you give tips on how to add homebrew components to a module? Such as how to make Tales from the Yawning Portal into a single campaign?
Probably not for everyone, but one method I’ve found really fun for protracted stealth sessions is stealing from the Dread system the idea of using a Jenga tower. Initial stealth rolls determine how frequently each player has to pull one (or more, on a terrible roll) blocks from the tower. When it falls (for any reason!) stealth is broken. The dice & stats still mostly determine the outcome, but it creates a great feeling of pervasive tension the whole span of the mission.
Cool idea
This is a neat idea
I’m stealing this! Thank you!!
this is actually a really fun adventure. Gives that 'tactile' nail biting feeling to every failed roll. It also moves stealth failure from fully random chance to partial player input.
I'm definitely gonna use this idea! Been thinking how to make a long stealth session fun and this sounds like an awesome idea
Literally in the middle of a heist adventure, after the planning phase. Your timing is impeccable
My group are just entering the casing phase now.
Same! And I was so nervous about planning it 😂
The ideas for initiative make a lot of sense, because a heist is a lot different from combat, now that I think about it.
Also what you say about perception and stealth sounds key. Make it varied to keep everyone involved.
I started my current campaign with a heist. They needed to gather some evidence for some shady dealings of a noble. Their patron told them it was an unofficial mission as the city cant authorize a search without evidence. So if they get caught they will be treated as criminal and he wont be able to help in any way. Worked like a charm
I’m currently preparing an all-rogue campaign for my group, you’re doing God’s work son.
I’m currently planning something similar. A campaign where every PC is a member of a thieve’s guild. They don’t have to be rogues, but they have to have the same boss.
0:49 What is a Heist? (comparing a Typical Adventure and a Heist. A Heist generally condemns the "Guns Blazing" approach.)
3:34 Casing the Joint (What is the party up against? Scouting, leaked intel, spying on patrols)
4:34 Planning the Heist (If they're indecisive to the point of a loop, put up a poll with each choice they have)
6:41 Executing the Heist (Enemies react as they would in an adventure, though there are intricacies)
7:42 How to create a Heist to challenge the players
1) Define the objective, likely with complications.
8:44 2) Concept the Heist (Potential methods of solving it, at least 3 most viable & obvious.)
10:01 3) Flesh it out (Obstacles; including traps, patrols, information, puzzles; helper objects - control room.)
11:22 Pro-Tips
- Location should be surveyable enough
- Have more than one entrance.
- Multiple objectives; no guards are to be killed, do not set off the central alarm, and a deadline.
- Secrets; only discoverable during the execution.
13:01 How to RUN it at the table. (Adjudicate accordingly. Do not CLING to your plans, and if they have an exotic approach in mind, maybe put something in the Heist for them to have a better chance at it.)
15:08 Move things around (If the party decides to not check the place it's in, put it elsewhere they decide to, within reason)
16:19 House Rules
- Think of ways other skills can reasonably be used, trying to avoid Perception spam.
- Same for Stealth; impersonating (Performance), cling to ceiling beams (Athletics/Acrobatics). Ask the player to justify.
19:32 Heist Initiative
21:35 Heist Combat House Rules + Plug
22:38 Running a RAID (Time is of the essence.)
Ran a "infiltration" just the other day in my PF2E campaign (a heist without stealing anything). They were trying to destabilize a crime gang's casino/brothel using the infiltration rules in the PF2E Gamemaster book. I just in time got the latest issue of the GM Lair and incorporated some ideas in there including the "heist combat" to take out guards quickly and the alternative rules for stealth. It worked very well. Now that the casino has experienced financial ruin, the party's next objective is ruining the gang leader's in-town reputation (again using the obstacle rules of PF infiltration) to drive him out of town or goad him into a battle royale.
An important thing to remember when planning a heist-venture is your party composition. If your party is 5 combat munchkins and 1 skill monkey, maybe don't run a stealthy heist. Plan a quick raid smash and grab, Payday 2 style. Make your plan apropos for your party composition, the whole square peg in the square hole thing. Leave room for the skill monkey to do their skill monkeying, but expect it to go hot at some point because you have 5 other players who want to preform that good old ultraviolence.
For general encounter types that involve a lot of planning, here is how I like to think of things:
The encounter may have 10 "difficulty points". If they run in guns blazing they will get absolutely stomped because they can only handle five difficulty points. But with doing work such as recon, gathering information, and making special gear / gadgets, I will allow that to count towards the difficulty points. So when they actually get to the inevitable climax confrontation, there are only five difficulty points remaining and they can mop it up in combat.
So put simply, I commoditize the work and planning they do ahead of time, directly towards making the dice rolling action be easier.
The way this manifests in the actual scenario can show up in different ways. Like, figuring out how to deal damage to an otherwise and vulnerable boss. Or gaining the key to an otherwise unsolvable puzzle. But it uses the same general rubric.
More than half of a heist is in the planning and preparation. I ran a pulp adventure (infiana jones style) wild wild west white wolf game with a mage in the party that could scry. They would map evey part of the dungeon, makes excrutiating plans, and any trap or bad guy the mage hadnt expected would be brute forced by the brujah vampire with lightning fast super strength.
Then the rival mage rides in and takes their goodies at gun point. So in the second dungeon the vampire swalloed the relic and they gave him an ellaborite fake.
My players absolutely loved this upside down gameplay.
Good times.
This is brilliant guidance! And not just the general outlines: the three ways to win concept, the ticking clock, the guards having lives, and moving a puzzle just a bit if needed. My next heist will be much better for watching this. Thank you!
Shared the Video with my DM im so fired up
The heist initiative is a good thing to have in many games out of combat I'd imagine.
I like the idea from is it blades? Guy Sclanders mentions it and Briea uses it in ExU. Where you have a " I planned for this" kind of mechanic
Yes I prefer the “I planned for this” mechanic as well. Because otherwise, either the planning phase is useless because something doesn’t go to plan so now they have to come up with a new plan on the fly. Or if the heist goes exactly as planned it is extremely boring because the execution phase is just the players telling the DM what they are going to do AGAIN after they already did exactly the same during planning.
Love this. My heist did not go so well. I will use these tips for the next one! Thanks Luke
Hey Luke, thanks for everything that you do.
Could you please give or make a video where you give tips on how to add homebrew components to a module? Such as how to make Tales from the Yawning Portal into a single campaign?
Something i've learned with my party when they are in the middle of a planning while in action, is interrumpting with " while you were discussing that, a guard came closer" so they can also feel the time ticking, I wont do it all the time, but just when needed.
I’m literally starting to run Waterdeep on Sunday so this could not have been more perfect timing. I totally wanted to run more heist in Heist!
I have a suggestion that I use for a couple types of what I call advanced adventures, such as heists, rescues and players new to RPG's or game system. Multiple choice. What I do is create a heist or whatever and then for each decision give multiple choices to each decision. Each decision then has a modifier which either makes it easier, no modifier, or makes it harder. It is important to remember, like you mentioned, however, that other means that you didn't think of be viable as well. Multiple choice is used primarily when introducing a new concept that the players are not familiar with, but you would like them to try. An example might be: You have to break into a castle which in itself is an obstacle, do you; A) Case [Perception] the castle to find all the possible entrances. B) Talk [Persuade or Bribe], one of the staff at a Tavern. [Modifier based on how persuasive you are or money you give.] Or C) Talk [Bluff, Diplomacy or Persuasion] your way into the castle. [Modifier based on how you approach and what you say.] You do not have to use modifiers, but players should be rewarded for good ideas, and this is a intrinsic way of doing that. I stress, to use this system only when dealing with players who are unfamiliar with certain game concepts or systems, they are unfamiliar with. In this way, they learn how to play and what kind of things are expected to happen while also giving them the additional option of making their own choices and ideas once they feel comfortable with the game itself. Play on!
You House Kundarak reference earned you my subscription
Can’t wait to watch!
Bit late to this but there's some good stuff here. I'm currently prepping a heist within a Celtic setting - which limits the options somewhat with the "dark age" lack of technology, culture and society - but the overall structure still works as do the tips for game management.
Just got to see how they plan to quietly lift the Petty King's prized bull from beneath his nose now! 😄
Cheers mate.
Literally uploaded this as I am planning a heist on castle Waterdeep’s vault for an adventure I want to publish on DMsguild, thank you sir
My favorite way to plan out a heist is the borrow heavily from Blade in the Dark.
1. No planning session. As stated it can get boring. We start off with a planning scene, where the GM tells the party the "Major" issues with why this is dangerous. This is how i subtly and nonsubtly tell them its a heist. They talk about all adventures before setting off but if this time they do it and i fast forward to the actual encounter they get the hint its a heist.
2. After the GM gives an overview of all the big problems if the heist then hte heist happens . we go through each major encounter as the PCs approach them, then just before they get to the major challenge we go back to the planning scene that happened in the past. PCs make roles and have encounters in the past that will and may help out with that challenge and only that challenge. This is very free form . During this scene time is important . My players can only do so much in a certain timespan before the actual heist. If two players are going to the bank managers home to figure out secrets to the bank managers code, then those two players can't go to the local pub nearby and poison the security guard leader.
3. Rince repeat and always have a twist or two. Something they heard about but wasn't exactly like they thought it was.
HYPE! Heists in RPG are amazing! Exited for this video
I use something like "heist initiative" in my sci-fi campaign a lot.
I have been calling it "general action turns" where, when the crew is split up and time-critical events are happening, such as repairing the ship in an unplanned navigation of a planetary debris ring, I will let each character narrate their actions for the "next minute or so" and ask for one skill roll if needed.
-
I started doing this as a way to spread play time attention around the (mostly online) "table" so no players felt ignored.
This timing is perfect, i was just thinking about the possibility of my party doing a heist!!
One session into Wild Beyond the Witchlight, and it's basically a series of heists 😅 totally gonna use this info to help inform my planning
Excellent video! Thanks❤
Ooooo this finally gives me a valid reason to put random Alarm spells around
Great video!
I loved this and followed your recommendations and we ended up having a blast a session evolved to something like a low budget ocean's eleven haha thanks a bunch and a question my players got to a point where they are powerful enough to "run a small town" and wanted to know if there is something I can read or use as a guide to play "age of empires or civilization" in dungeons and dragons or pathfinder??
Cool ideas!
Great video.
Definitely using those house rules 🤙
what do I do when a heist goes wrong? for example when the party gets spotted and trapped by the guarda in the bank? is the campaign over? do the players have to start new? can I build in a dead/bad ending? and if I do... how can I nake it a good bad end? XD or is an ending where everyone fails a bad idea? (i dont have much of an idea how dnd works yet 🤷🏻♂️👍)
Cool video and tips. I will be $ this issue from you.
I use a simple system when running these types of things: 1. Have a time limit, and 2. Any on-the-fly planning takes ingame time = the real time (so them spending 30 minutes planning when they only have 1 1/2 Hours can be bad for them
Happy Year of the Dragon 🐉
I tend to put the item to find in the last room, whatever room that may be. Or in the room I need it to be in to make the story flow / move things forward. The thing to find and the rooms should be flexible to allow it. Like the game Clue but I’m cheating for player experience benefit.
A Heist should be a mini-campaign. THey go in without a plan then no matter how good they roll they still fail.
A major part of the movie Conan the Barbarian (Arnold Schwarzenegger, Sandahl Bergman) (second act? third?) includes a heist (second act? third?), with much treasure and a NEARLY insurmountable guard force.
I'm planning a heist for my group right now... and I'm sure, regardless of my planing, the eloquence bard will just stoll in in and bring retrieve the MacGuffin in 5 Minutes.
Thanks! Funny thing, I was just thinking that a heist Is just what my players would like.
When planning the heist adventure, you should try to keep the location's defenses as close to your original setup as possible. Unless the players' planning stage exposes a blatantly obvious weakness, don't adjust things just to counter whatever plan they came up with (even then, if you're going to change anything, take into account the people who created these defenses - would *they* have left such a blatantly obvious opening?).
I ran a heist where the players had to break into a museum to steal some relics for a crime lord (and a tome that tied into the main campaign), and I'd completely forgotten that one of the players had an ability that lets him pass through stone. My decision was that the dragon who owned the museum wouldn't have considered such abilities in their defenses, as she was arrogant enough to believe that anyone with access to such powers wouldn't have the skills necessary to pose a threat to the museum's other defenses.
What do you think of the Golden Vault book?
thx
Hey Luke quick question, have you ever thought of doing an episode on "how to run an evil campaign" or "how to run a cult?" Im trying to figure out a campaign where the players are evil and part of a cult hunting down Demonomicon of Iggwilv but Im stuck on creating the campaign for this.
Nice video
I know it’s off-topic, but I’m basically a first time DM who’s past a handful of times In a grope of first time players and my group wants to do StrixHaven they already got the book but I’ve heard it’s not the most filled out. I was thinking about mixing it with Lost Mine Of Phandelver and I could use some tips and I’d like to get anyone’s thoughts.
How funny. When we were in Waterdeep were didn't do a heist either. But we did complete an assassination of a cult leader.
Any tips on keeping track of time during a heist? A problem that I encounter a lot is that players acting in 6 second rounds don't act the way normal people do because in reality, players have a lot longer than 6 seconds to think about what they want to do or take in the situation. Their characters move like efficient machines heading directly to their objective without stopping or pausing.
This creates a problem when players expect the rest of the world to behave normally and start questioning the response time of guards and the timing of other events. For example, if someone spots the players and runs off to get help. Coming back within 5 minutes is a fairly fast response time in the real world, but an eternity in 6 second rounds, so there isn't really a sense of urgency. Alternatively, getting a guard response within 5 rounds does impose a sense of urgency, but it ruins the verisimilitude when players point out that 30 seconds would be an insanely fast response even though it's apparently enough time for players to explore the entire building and even fight off a guard patrol or two.
Is your content available for roll 20?
It was touched on but don't gate the game behind skill checks. If item is hidden in desk and character searches desk they find it.
Reward creativity over creating the possible fail state of a bad dice roll -- I'd also add if a roll is a fail then its a fail, no fudging. No yes and or no but... unless your just running a short story.
Nothing NECESSARY to the progression should be skill check gated, but I think it’s fine for checks to have important consequences for HOW the mission progresses. Didn’t find the alarm passcode? Ok, too bad; you can still try to circumvent the security in other (more risky, difficult) ways, and in the worst case scenario maybe you end up in a tough combat. Then when a clever player or perceptive character DOES find the shortcut, it feels like a real victory, not just a freebie the DM was going to give us either way.
In my campaign I have a heist to steal something and scapegoat the PCs for doing it. This requires the PCs (who are now wanted outlaws) to pull off a counter heist to recover the stolen item and then return it to clear their names. This adds both motivation and tension as they are now marked outlaws with escalating prices on their heads. So they need to avoid the law and bounty hunters while also tracking the real crooks back to their lair and then entering and recovering the item and returning it while still being hunted. Having it in their possession is just the start of the adventure, after all if apprehended with it in their possession, it would be proof and an admission of guilt that they were the thieves! And the bounties are still in effect and the bounty hunters are still hot on their trail. How are they going to return it without getting caught and how are they going to clear their names? That requires another negative heist in reverse. So this type of triple whammy heist has plenty of twists and turns and works great. If you really want to shake things up, add in a trusted sleeper mole that was working as an insider, a turncoat spy that was in on the caper all along. Maybe they want to apprehend the PC “thieves” and collect the bounty reward. Or maybe what was stolen was actually a forgery or a fake. It was swapped out prior to the original heist. The real item was heisted by someone else, someone unknown and the real item is still missing! Or it was swapped or stolen by thieves in an ambush after the PCs recovery. The possibilities are endless.
I'm planning one because I made the mistake of mentioning a bank in a large city and while my players are mostly good people they are unhinged kleptomaniacs
Awh man I just finished a heist adventure, this video came wayyy too late on my recommendations
I was sooo disappointed too! i wanted to do a heist so bad! yeah It was a good adventure generally but I was prepared to do an actual heist!
Hey Luke! I can confirm that you don't completely suck. Also I like bacon.
legitimate, lets go to eberron and rob that train
Or say play Blades in the Dark or the like.
Just was watching Bobs Session 0 video guide
Got my like in 3 seconds. That is not a heist!
I actually do the dropping perception checks thing as a normal thing in my games. Looting for example, requires players to use different checks to find different kinds of loot. Survival for equipment, alchemy for potions, arcana for magic items, medicine for potions, etc.
Get rid of perception, get rid of stealth - so why not get rid of initiative as well?
Instead of “heist initiative” you could just go around the table left to right, no need to roll and remember an initiative order.
I was the 778th like.
I ruined the flow.
Come at me
500xp
Cool that you used a book everyone is aware of that isn't a guest but didn't mention Keys from the Golden Vault. I too only choose examples that make my point.
I mean, you can cope all you wish, but the book with "Heist" in the title remains NOT a heist, despite your effort.
I've never heard of "Keys from the Golden Vault", but I have heard of and purchased "Dragon Heist". I was disappointed, because there's absolutely no heisting in the book.
@@robinmohamedally7587 ☝️🤓
Water deep is a treasure hunt module filled with filler and cartoon storytelling.
Dude just play Blades in the dark
The writing for all 5th edition adventurers is complete garbage. All they give you is maps and locations and literally no story, no real substance. You have to do it all yourself.
This is not why I buy a campaign book. I want the story and a plot. I can make maps by myself.