Ive always been told that its the opposite of 5.56 vs .223. In this case the civilian version (.308 win) is actually a higher pressure spec than its NATO counterpart.
C.I.P. Says they’re the same thing. Ima keep putting both in my gun interchangeably. Has worked fine for me for 15 years. Never heard of any instances, even anecdotal, that it has ever caused an issue for anyone. Not once. They’re the same.
As a Marine n Vietnam 67 to 68 I used the M-14, 7.62 NATO round, which I experienced also used the M-16 5.56/223 NATO round. Jungle battles in heavy foliage, tracers told the story of heavy rickoache from the 223 where 7.62 did not. No interferrance open ground the 7.62 had more knock down power, even though the 223 did nearly the same, but distance told a different story where the 7.62 took every hit as a knock down, where the 223 was not, and the enemy still wanted to fight wounded... The 7.62 they went down and they stayed down which saved lives. oora RC over and out. Reply with comment Banana... Short, medium, or Long range the 7.62 you don't want to get hit by that round period...
I read a book on powerful weapons. The swap from 7.62 to 5.56 came up. The book explains theory of the 5.56. What the idea was, the 5.56 was more likely to wound than kill. If you wound that takes 3 people off the battlefield vs killing just one since apparently 2 soldiers are need to tend to the wounded soldier. Whether that's how it's ever worked is irrelevant to this discussion but interesting the 5.56 is still used. Lighter ammo weight allowing a soldier to carry more and ranges fought at is probably part of it.
@@ThePaulv12Carrying more of a lighter round results in more weight than carrying less of a heavier round. It takes 2 or 3 of 5.56 rounds to achieve the same result as one round of 7.62.
@@garydouglas9413the 5.56 was designed as a wounding round,to theoretically take up more manpower to evacuate the wounded.Egghead thinking,they weren't subject to the draft.
@@ThePaulv12 Well said points and true. The goal per the Geneva code is to just remove the pawns from battle and not kill them. I'll take the 5.56 or better yet, my 6.5 Grendel AR. with 12.5" barrel. Being able to carry more rounds to weight is very important in combat situations. More is definitely better in the long run.
I thought by his voice he was talking about width anyway. 😅 He should change the name of his show to Eggplant Ballistics. 🍆 🤔 Purple Headed.... 😒 Nevermind.....
If you are primarily a hunter, like me, the answer is simple. 7.62 is ok for practice but only comes in fmj or a target bullet. You gotta go with a game/species/size bullet when hunting and that means 308. I've shot over a thousand rounds of surplus 7.62 in my bolt guns with no problems except the occasional hard primer which went off the second time. Here's the summary that should have been up front.: 7.62 ammo is contract loaded for mil purposes. That means better weather sealing, harder primers to be more to resistant to slam fires in full auto guns, tighter bullet crimps -- same reason, and bullets that comply with Geneva convention legal battle requirements. Also full autos that fire from a closed bolt can sometimes cook off a round due to heat. Not something to worry about in any hunting situation.
To answer your question at the end : Both! They are so similar it is basically negligible. I enjoy collectijg all the different kinds of .308 and 7.62x51 out there. Everything from hunting rounds to API, AP, EPR and even "personal defense" rounds. Such a versatile cartridge. Thanks for another test!
No, this is YT chemistry legend Nurdrage. Love your chem content man! Seriously though, go listen to a Nurdrage vid and tell me it's not the same person!
I compared new Turkish import 7.62 NATO brass with new Starline 308 Winchester brass, the 7.62 NATO brass has about 2 grains less case capacity, I was using IMR-4064 powder for the test, 42.8 grains fits nicely in Starline brass, but crunchy and compressed in 7.62 NATO brass.
Cases vary between manufacturers in terms of brass thickness and tolerance. Typically, a manufacturer that loads both will use the same cases and stamp them differently.
The NATO spec requires much more head brass against case burst. The reduced capacity hinders loads a bit but by tinkering with dense powder and slower burn you can probably match muzzle energy.
In hot open bolt machine gun chambers, we occasionally get ripped apart cartridge cases. Only the case head will extract leaving a brass “tube” that the next cartridge is fed and jammed into. Only saw it rarely with M80 7.62 240’s, but a few times with the smaller 5.56 249’s using M855’s. Makes for fun times pulling and setting aside a very hot loaded barrel to set aside and rod out later.
@@fleatactical7390rightfully so. They packed up most of their operations in the Midwest starting about 10 years ago in search of non union cheap labor. You get what you pay for. That being said, as an ex employee they are still about in the middle of the road as far as quality goes IMHO.
@@owensthilaire8189 LOL Remington UMC!!! Yep, it's crap. I've had two rifle manufacturers (employees who do function tests) tell me not to use it. Never buying it again, or other Remington ammo for that matter.
I’ve shot ALOT of ammo in varying types manufacturers and many cals. Only Remington ammo I buy anymore is the newer tipped ammo in magnum sizes. And specifically for my late 60’s 700 7remmag. All other Remington ammo is crap.
@@PureCountryof91 i don't shoot, I'm just an enthusiast looking from somewhere you can't own guns (unless you sign off your SOUL to the govt and the bank). this wasn't really a real comment just a funny thing! but yeah we all know the lighter cheap ones don't work well if you wanna group, but they are great for training! ahahah cheers mate!
@@francobuzzetti9424 the m80 ball ammo is loaded to a minimum, or maximum spec, usually in between. This variance causes velocity peaks, and valleys. This will effectively cause erratic elevation. The inconsistent loading and current barrel twist rates are too fast for the chode loads at 147-150 grains.
...your video showed up in my TH-cam "suggestions"...had never seen it before...really enjoyed the ammo comparisons, commentary & how you've got your target area set up...very cool! ...so I watched a couple more ammo comparison videos...really enjoy your laid-back presentation, comparison graphics & periodic jazz riffs...your conversations w/ "Terry" freaked me out a little though...LOL! ...this is kinda like listening/watching Ray Ramano do a gun presentation, LOL! ...wIll be back to watch more in the near future...Kudos from Iowa & keep up the helpful content!
It's a big difference. 300 blackout just doesn't have the powder/power to make actual 308 rounds work, typically. Much better to use bullets actually designed for the 300 bl.
I reload for 300Blk. 147’s can hit about 2100fps max (in an AR) before the pressure becomes too dangerous. Oh the joys of using fast burning magnum pistol powder in a rifle.
I just wanted to say that I absolutely love your channel. You provide fantastic information and do it in an entertaining way. Thank you for making these videos.
Of course 308 is a hunting cartridge so obviously I’m gonna choose an A.R. 10 I had no idea there were that many options and thanks for the advice going to Midway
I have a SOCOM 16 for which Springfield specifies only NATO ammo. Yes, it will probably handle the higher pressures in the commercial .308 but what would be the point? Winchester NATO spec. 7.62 x 51 item number is Q3130 which is on the box. Each cartridge has a NATO cross on the cartridge base. No cross, no NATO. It is great ammo. Never had a misfire or a cycling issue.
Since I do a lot of blinking at the range, I always stock up or not. 7.62 because it's a lot cheaper than the 308.But when I go hunting, I take the 3LA because it's usually much fresh air ammunition.Sometimes that achieve stuff that you buy is actually reloads that are made from various corporations or government surplus
Enjoy your videos. I ordered a couple of t-shirts from your merch . I think you should go 4' inches instead of 6' Sand give the bullets a little bit more of a chance.
I have a Century Arms FAL in .308 and an HBAR FAL in 7.62 and the .308 rounds will expand or 'stovepipe in the 7.62, turning it into a repeater every round and vise versa. The 7.62 likes all the cheaper old military surplus. The Russian steel case rounds work in both while they were available, but the 7.62 and .308 won't interchange for me. I really enjoyed the video and I like shopping at Midway for AR-15 accessories.
Good tests! I'd stock up on 7.62 NATO- when in doubt I always go with military rounds. Maybe less options but they're almost always a good amount cheaper and easier to find.
Varying grain in the block and knots make a significant difference in the density of the wood in each spot. That is something to consider on pass-through performance.
Pressure 7.62 NATO is rated for a lower max pressure than .308 Winchester. 7.62 NATO’s rating is about 60,000 PSI, and .308 Win’s is 62,000. It’s not much of a difference, but it’s a difference.
Check the bullets. Winchester offers 2 different 308 FMJ Projectiles. One is reportedly magnetic. I wonder if the Winchester 7.62 NATO has the magnetic projectile.
I prefer the 308 and not in FMJ. While penetration is always important, delivering a forceful impact is just as needed. You get more feels if you don't just slide through, but stay a while. As with anything in this endeavor, personal preference is key. Both in what you like, as well as what is needed for a happy ending.
Here’s the only concern, gas operated military rifles chambered for 7.62x51 are designed to support bullets from 147 to 175 grain so shooting.308 from a military rifle that are loaded with bullets lighter than 147 grain or heavier than 175 grain could be problematic. However, the 110 grain and 220 grain bullets have not been factory loaded in .308 for many years. Now, the best load out there today for long range target shooting from a 7.62 gas gun or a .308 bolt gun is the M118LR round. My scores in NRA Long-Range Competition with that round proved to me it was more accurate than 175 grain FGMM.
A rum dum in the hold of a ship sold my grandfather his 308 and almost 3 boxes of ammunition. He always gets his deer and sometimes 2 depending on the population. Forty years later, after he passed he had 7 rounds left. Other than cleaning that gun never left it's case except to hunt and the fact he had 7 bullets left he never missed a shot either
I'd have to go back through your videos but I don't remember ever seeing a single projectile exit the back of that sand box. It's just an automatic fail no matter the cartridge! 😂
I run both interchangeably. No problem in the bolt gun, ar10, or the m14s. Yes, some minor headspace differences, but function is good for all. May be some accuracy variations at longer ranges
I've had .308 expand and fail to eject in my M1A match a few times. Maybe 1 in 40. It could've been the ammo, but I just quit shooting the .308 through it, no issues since. I've never seen the ammo destroy a weapon though. I have .308 bolt, it shoots both with no issues and no sight adjustments out to about 400 yards.
I’ve always been told you can’t shoot a 308 rd out of a military gun designed for 7.62 nato but you can shoot a 7.62 nato in a civilian gun designed for 308..
7.62x51 chambers are slightly oversized, 308 is generally higher pressure (if I remember correctly), and cases are thinner, causing occasional case head separation.
What to stock up on depends on what weapon system they'll be used in. 7.62x51 has tougher brass that can hold up better to battle rifles like the CETME, HK G3/91 family that are known to tear off rims of .308 cases due to their violent extraction/ejection. M1a/M14 owners should stock 7.62x51 as well as their gas systems are not adjustable and designed/tuned for 7.62x51 pressures. .308 can put a real beating on them. (Similar issue to the M1 Garand being designed for M2 ball pressures and can be damaged/worn out prematurely buy repeated use of much higher pressure commercial 30-06 ammo.)
So the 762/51 is mil spec. Sealed and crimped primer and a slightly tighter crimp on the bullet. The shell casing is also slightly thicker. I think they also have a specific powder that meets NATO spec. 308 On the other hand has a wide variety of powder and velocity options, each proprietary to the brand. For sure, 308 is much easier to reload than 7.62/51. ALL DAY LONG!!!
Please explain to me why exactly you feel that 7.62x51 NATO is so much harder to reload than 308win. I have loaded thousand of 308 and many many thousands of 7.62 NATO. I full length size and trim if necessary all of them. Maybe the primer pockets may need a little extra to clean but that's absolutely the only difference. If you aneal the brass first then I don't find any difference. Please explain yourself.
OK I'm Amy 5 min into video and I will watch to the end :) But 7.62x51 is a military round as you know and it is designed for penetration, armor piercing and all of that. .308 Winchester is a more powerful round as it is factory loaded hotter than the mil spec for 7.62x51. It however is primarily a hunting cartridge and hunters are not typically worried about penetrating steel since I have never heard of a hunter encounter with an armored deer ;) Hunters do want good penetration but we are talking bone and muscle tissue and expansion is more important than penetrating steel your lumber demo clearly showed superior expansion in the .308 which of course means less armor piercing.
.308. As a hunter I don't want the bullet just sliding through. I want damage! Your tests show the .308 does more damage ( i.e. exit hole on the plywood.). The .308 did go all the through the last steel shot as well......
Solid copper projectiles are very erratic if you don't clean your barrel between firing a jacketed bullet and a monometal bullet. Something about the gilding metal from the jacketed bullet doesnt interact well with solid copper. Ron Spomer and Backfire have both made mention of it in several video's.
You post a lot of very informative videos. Thanks for your work. I really appreciate that you're saving me a lot of money by not having to run the tests myself. But I'm still gonna do it just for the fun! Stay safe my friend. BTW, I'm gonna copy your sleds. Great idea
7.62 fmj is usually cheaper ( or it used to be) if your buying mil surp. I know WW white box is higher. .308 gives you more choices for hunting / expanding bullets. My M1A likes them both. Thx for the test! Poooor Terry!
Sometimes higher power makes the less result because it dumps the energy too quickly. Some say a 30-06 is better that 300 win mag for grizzly bears because it is less energy and will go deeper. A 7.62x39 at point blank will push through or deeper into a tree than 308. I once heard it said a 308 will shoot through a tree if the tree is 200 yards away (but not up close). Of course, it seems many people try tests and different results are given.
Which would I stock up on? The cheaper one, with one caveat - has to be clean burning. If I recall correctly the 7.62 is loaded to 60Kpsi, while the .308 can go to 62Kpsi. I believe that's reflected in the data from your shot groups. And yes, that's some amazing spreads for factory ammo!
You have used a confusing unit abbreviation. K/k when in English units means kip, which is 1000 pounds. Saying 60ksi is a bit more clear. Not trying to be a jerk, just giving some knowledge.
I generally stock 7.62x51 nato ammo for my AR-10's in bulk, milsurp ammo is usually alot cheaper. .308 win ammo has tons more bullet, load and configuration options and that being said, is mostly more expensive. For my Bolt guns in .308 I stock several bullet types for different needs but they are more often much more expensive than milsurp ball ammo so I don't stock as many rounds of .308 win.
It doesn't depend on the ballistic specs. It depends on the velocity and materials in the actual ammo and the targets. In general, Faster = more deformation on impact if you're hitting above the pressure driven shock threshold of the materials and are creating a shockwave. Otherwise, you are just measuring the plastic deformaability of casting and the material it's fired at and the drag through the target in the trans-sonic regime. In both cases you're going to see a classic hydrodynamic instability emerge that occurs whenever a high density wave impinges on a lower density boundary. This instability will cause turbulence and can overcome rifling as well as the aerodynamic stability that comes from having the center of mass behind the aerodynamic center of drag that can initiate tumbling. This is actually a really nice bit of physics that is accessible to most people who did ok in high school math. It shows up literally everywhere from virus particles traveling through an n95 mask to aeroplanes traveling near the speed of sound to sand and rocks moving downstream in rivers, and into the heart of nuclear explosions!
Since the bullets are different weights and seeing the different behavior penetrating the lumber brings into question if the bullet construction is the same.
Depending on the purpose of the round, the 308 not going through the metal means it transfered all the energy into the wood. Am I missing something. Why did 7.62 'win'
I believe it's because this is a penetration test, not an energy transfer test. The 7.62 bulged and split the steel plate more than the .308 did. So it had better penetration capability compared to 7.62.
I'll take the .308, seen the holes they leave. I never had to shoot through concrete walls or steel. The piece of plywood with the back blown out, is the desired effect in Combat, not straight through penetration. Also it destroyed the box, found a way to move its energy through the barrier.
If you have a .308 rated barrel, you're going to find that 7.62 x 51 has trouble extracting. It has a thicker walled cartridge and lower pressure. You'd think the lower pressure would mean less expansion on the brass - and maybe it does - but it doesn't matter; the thicker wall will make extracting the brass a little tougher. Especially in a semi-auto. I don't own a bolt action, so can't comment on that. Buyer beware.
I blew my neck disks out. The 30-06 hurt so bad, I thought hunting was done UNTIL I got S&W AR10 AWESOME I was back in the game. I use very very expensive ammo for hunting, for farting around I used mil surplus. I have 2 great scopes, both on quick detach scope mounts. For who is woundering, it kept the zero. Yes shocking. Great video.
I have found that in my Century Arms .308 Sportster some cheaper .308 ammo will not cycle however the Winchester 7.62 x .51 (the same that U were using) had the power to cycle the rifle perfectly.
"These thing just opened up." In "Across an Angry Sea" by Cedric Delves (then CO D Sqdr 22 SAS) relates how, during the Falklands War, they captured an Argentine officer, who acted like he just could not care. That did not endear him to his captors. When they found a hunting rifle with a powerful scope in this possession, that kicked his image down a few rungs of the ladder. Still he did not care. Only when they found in his possession very Non-Geneva Convention hunting ammo did he twig on from the now very angry faces around him that he was a long way from home and entirely without friends.
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 90 | คู่เอก "ก้องไกล vs แอนตาร์"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/VugIvOstzRI/mqdefault.jpg)
Ive always been told that its the opposite of 5.56 vs .223. In this case the civilian version (.308 win) is actually a higher pressure spec than its NATO counterpart.
Thought the same thing. I thought 7.62 ×51 was supposed to be a hotter load for nato
You are correct. Civilian 308 is loaded higher.
This is true
You'll also find our allies load their 7.62 NATO very light. Lighter projectiles and slower velocities. 🤠
C.I.P. Says they’re the same thing. Ima keep putting both in my gun interchangeably. Has worked fine for me for 15 years. Never heard of any instances, even anecdotal, that it has ever caused an issue for anyone. Not once. They’re the same.
As a Marine n Vietnam 67 to 68 I used the M-14, 7.62 NATO round, which I experienced also used the M-16 5.56/223 NATO round. Jungle battles in heavy foliage, tracers told the story of heavy rickoache from the 223 where 7.62 did not. No interferrance open ground the 7.62 had more knock down power, even though the 223 did nearly the same, but distance told a different story where the 7.62 took every hit as a knock down, where the 223 was not, and the enemy still wanted to fight wounded... The 7.62 they went down and they stayed down which saved lives. oora RC over and out. Reply with comment Banana... Short, medium, or Long range the 7.62 you don't want to get hit by that round period...
I read a book on powerful weapons. The swap from 7.62 to 5.56 came up. The book explains theory of the 5.56.
What the idea was, the 5.56 was more likely to wound than kill. If you wound that takes 3 people off the battlefield vs killing just one since apparently 2 soldiers are need to tend to the wounded soldier. Whether that's how it's ever worked is irrelevant to this discussion but interesting the 5.56 is still used. Lighter ammo weight allowing a soldier to carry more and ranges fought at is probably part of it.
@@ThePaulv12Carrying more of a lighter round results in more weight than carrying less of a heavier round. It takes 2 or 3 of 5.56 rounds to achieve the same result as one round of 7.62.
Bigger lead sooner dead?
@@garydouglas9413the 5.56 was designed as a wounding round,to theoretically take up more manpower to evacuate the wounded.Egghead thinking,they weren't subject to the draft.
@@ThePaulv12 Well said points and true. The goal per the Geneva code is to just remove the pawns from battle and not kill them. I'll take the 5.56 or better yet, my 6.5 Grendel AR. with 12.5" barrel. Being able to carry more rounds to weight is very important in combat situations. More is definitely better in the long run.
Stock up on both! You can't go wrong with either.
Got mags with both federal for both
agreed never know when you'll need more ammo they may have small diffrences but does the guy getting shot care?
@@sheilaolfieway1885 bullets hurt doesn't matter size lol
psa aac for the win
@@Nontactical1014I believe above a certain size they stop hurting
Only working with 6", but you blew out that box 💪
I thought by his voice he was talking about width anyway. 😅
He should change the name of his show to Eggplant Ballistics. 🍆 🤔
Purple Headed.... 😒 Nevermind.....
@@redfaux74❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
Wrecked it
Wish I had 6"
6" is way better for penetration lol
NEVER STOP MAKING THESE KINDS OF VIDEOS. more people are curious as to these exact questions that you notice.
If you are primarily a hunter, like me, the answer is simple. 7.62 is ok for practice but only comes in fmj or a target bullet. You gotta go with a game/species/size bullet when hunting and that means 308.
I've shot over a thousand rounds of surplus 7.62 in my bolt guns with no problems except the occasional hard primer which went off the second time.
Here's the summary that should have been up front.:
7.62 ammo is contract loaded for mil purposes. That means better weather sealing, harder primers to be more to resistant to slam fires in full auto guns, tighter bullet crimps -- same reason, and bullets that comply with Geneva convention legal battle requirements. Also full autos that fire from a closed bolt can sometimes cook off a round due to heat. Not something to worry about in any hunting situation.
It doesnt really matter, both 762 and 308 will kill pretty much any big game with correct shot placement.
@@fjandinner3532 not with a full metal jacket which is what 7.62 comes with.
9:27 I honestly enjoy your videos with your various tests and commentary. I'm glad to be a subscriber. Thanks for uploading.
Agreed. ❤
To answer your question at the end : Both! They are so similar it is basically negligible. I enjoy collectijg all the different kinds of .308 and 7.62x51 out there. Everything from hunting rounds to API, AP, EPR and even "personal defense" rounds. Such a versatile cartridge. Thanks for another test!
Those brief bursts of elevator music are cool
It’s pretty awesome that you got Ray Ramano to narrate your video.
If you want a good one, there is a family guy clip, with Ray Romano, Harold Ramis, and Kermit the frog.
No, this is YT chemistry legend Nurdrage. Love your chem content man!
Seriously though, go listen to a Nurdrage vid and tell me it's not the same person!
Trolololololol
m.th-cam.com/video/t6FUR_nhGX8/w-d-xo.html
"What just happened to my box"
That's what she said
Came here for this comment and would’ve left it myself had you not beat me to it. 😂😂😂
Zoomer humor
And with only SIX inches!
@@dotarsojat7725 Nope it was just the tip! (copper tip) But still just the tip.
🤣
I compared new Turkish import 7.62 NATO brass with new Starline 308 Winchester brass, the 7.62 NATO brass has about 2 grains less case capacity, I was using IMR-4064 powder for the test, 42.8 grains fits nicely in Starline brass, but crunchy and compressed in 7.62 NATO brass.
Not so big of a difference that it makes a difference.
2 grains less or about 5000psi is 7.62
Cases vary between manufacturers in terms of brass thickness and tolerance. Typically, a manufacturer that loads both will use the same cases and stamp them differently.
The NATO spec requires much more head brass against case burst. The reduced capacity hinders loads a bit but by tinkering with dense powder and slower burn you can probably match muzzle energy.
In hot open bolt machine gun chambers, we occasionally get ripped apart cartridge cases. Only the case head will extract leaving a brass “tube” that the next cartridge is fed and jammed into. Only saw it rarely with M80 7.62 240’s, but a few times with the smaller 5.56 249’s using M855’s. Makes for fun times pulling and setting aside a very hot loaded barrel to set aside and rod out later.
"Terry, quit making fun of me !"
😂👍🏻
I just got 700 rounds of .308 in last week! Happy day! Freaking tack driver. Love your videos sir, thank you!
how much that run you?
@@hungdaddy6996 Just over $500
Knock Knock (if you're lucky) ATF here, we would like to inspect your ammo. We feel you are breaking the law, and even if you aren't, you are!
what a moron, brag to the world and cry when you get a visit
I remember a comment on a previous 7.62vs308 video, the civilian .308 may be going faster but the projectile is made with a softer lead.
I suppose we could explain that to the steel that the 308 penetrated and the 762 did not?
I’m more impressed that you got Winchester White box to go where you were aiming!
LOL man, I have never seen so much hate towards the white box products as I have these past few years.
@@fleatactical7390rightfully so. They packed up most of their operations in the Midwest starting about 10 years ago in search of non union cheap labor. You get what you pay for. That being said, as an ex employee they are still about in the middle of the road as far as quality goes IMHO.
Remington green and yellow has got to be worse.
@@owensthilaire8189 LOL Remington UMC!!!
Yep, it's crap. I've had two rifle manufacturers (employees who do function tests) tell me not to use it. Never buying it again, or other Remington ammo for that matter.
I’ve shot ALOT of ammo in varying types manufacturers and many cals. Only Remington ammo I buy anymore is the newer tipped ammo in magnum sizes. And specifically for my late 60’s 700 7remmag. All other Remington ammo is crap.
11:24 midway " we have 154 options!!
me: "ball.. the cheapest one"
If you have a modern rifle that groups m80.. lemme know. My sf308 doesn't like m80. But step up to 155-168 and the 1:10 twist rate does the thing
@@PureCountryof91 i don't shoot, I'm just an enthusiast looking from somewhere you can't own guns (unless you sign off your SOUL to the govt and the bank). this wasn't really a real comment just a funny thing! but yeah we all know the lighter cheap ones don't work well if you wanna group, but they are great for training! ahahah cheers mate!
@@francobuzzetti9424 the m80 ball ammo is loaded to a minimum, or maximum spec, usually in between. This variance causes velocity peaks, and valleys. This will effectively cause erratic elevation. The inconsistent loading and current barrel twist rates are too fast for the chode loads at 147-150 grains.
Stock up on both especially whichever is cheaper.
...your video showed up in my TH-cam "suggestions"...had never seen it before...really enjoyed the ammo comparisons, commentary & how you've got your target area set up...very cool!
...so I watched a couple more ammo comparison videos...really enjoy your laid-back presentation, comparison graphics & periodic jazz riffs...your conversations w/ "Terry" freaked me out a little though...LOL!
...this is kinda like listening/watching Ray Ramano do a gun presentation, LOL!
...wIll be back to watch more in the near future...Kudos from Iowa & keep up the helpful content!
The answer is chamber pressure. Thank you for coming to my Ted talk
Just like Ted talks, is not as clear as they make it sound. KPSI is not the same as CUP.
Another suggestion for you.
308 M80 147gr vs 300 blackout supers with 147gr M80 bullets.
I wanna see the difference in power.
It’s about 800-1000fps depending on all the variables.
It's a big difference. 300 blackout just doesn't have the powder/power to make actual 308 rounds work, typically. Much better to use bullets actually designed for the 300 bl.
@@ArkancideI love the Clinton throwback name lol.
I reload for 300Blk. 147’s can hit about 2100fps max (in an AR) before the pressure becomes too dangerous. Oh the joys of using fast burning magnum pistol powder in a rifle.
That would be like comparing a mid sized pickup truck to a tractor trailer!
I just wanted to say that I absolutely love your channel. You provide fantastic information and do it in an entertaining way. Thank you for making these videos.
At this point, it all comes down to price and availability. Same as I already thought, but thanks for showing us the results.
I'm surprised, not enough difference to make a difference
Not a coincidence you uploaded this on 3/08 / 2024 is it. edit: Missed opportunity 308 vs 224 Valkyrie. :)
Terry loves keeping you on your toes with his witty comments and stoic manner.
308... more options. Thanks for another great video.
308/762 is a beast. An amazing combination of terminal ballistics and potential capacity.
Of course 308 is a hunting cartridge so obviously I’m gonna choose an A.R. 10 I had no idea there were that many options and thanks for the advice going to Midway
Great vid! Love the fairness using the same ammo manufacturer.
The double meanings. . . Awesome!
I have a SOCOM 16 for which Springfield specifies only NATO ammo. Yes, it will probably handle the higher pressures in the commercial .308 but what would be the point? Winchester NATO spec. 7.62 x 51 item number is Q3130 which is on the box. Each cartridge has a NATO cross on the cartridge base. No cross, no NATO. It is great ammo. Never had a misfire or a cycling issue.
Since I do a lot of blinking at the range, I always stock up or not. 7.62 because it's a lot cheaper than the 308.But when I go hunting, I take the 3LA because it's usually much fresh air ammunition.Sometimes that achieve stuff that you buy is actually reloads that are made from various corporations or government surplus
terry laughing at you for the sand box fail is classic, i bet a solid copper (not the polymer tip which I do like for its expansion) would do well
Terry is awesome. He is my new favorite UTube guest. He is always right in the action and never complains.
Enjoy your videos. I ordered a couple of t-shirts from your merch . I think you should go 4' inches instead of 6' Sand give the bullets a little bit more of a chance.
I appreciate it! I found the ticket to 6” in some future videos. Pretty surprising
I have a Century Arms FAL in .308 and an HBAR FAL in 7.62 and the .308 rounds will expand or 'stovepipe in the 7.62, turning it into a repeater every round and vise versa. The 7.62 likes all the cheaper old military surplus. The Russian steel case rounds work in both while they were available, but the 7.62 and .308 won't interchange for me. I really enjoyed the video and I like shopping at Midway for AR-15 accessories.
Many will disagree, but most FAL’s are chambered for 7.62NATO. There is a difference.
Good Day. Excellent. Thank You & best Regards
Good tests! I'd stock up on 7.62 NATO- when in doubt I always go with military rounds. Maybe less options but they're almost always a good amount cheaper and easier to find.
Pretty sure that a 308 rifle can also shoot 7.62 NATO while a 7.62 NATO rifle can't shoot 308.
@@Cloud_Seeker nailed it.
Varying grain in the block and knots make a significant difference in the density of the wood in each spot. That is something to consider on pass-through performance.
Love your channel brother!! Nice work!
I knew that neither one would make it through this sand. That’s why they’ve always used sandbags on foxholes and trenches.
That's bananas!!! Also, does laying Terry in front of the door to your house change his name to Matt?
Pressure
7.62 NATO is rated for a lower max pressure than .308 Winchester. 7.62 NATO’s rating is about 60,000 PSI, and .308 Win’s is 62,000. It’s not much of a difference, but it’s a difference.
Check the bullets. Winchester offers 2 different 308 FMJ Projectiles. One is reportedly magnetic.
I wonder if the Winchester 7.62 NATO has the magnetic projectile.
If they are magnetic, then they are AP rounds. 😮
@@3gunshooter60not true
A lot of the 7.62-39 projectiles are magnetic and they are not AP they tend to shatter when they hit something made of metal even sheet metal
Prob best comparison test I have seen
To many don't secure their targets well enough
I prefer the 308 and not in FMJ. While penetration is always important, delivering a forceful impact is just as needed. You get more feels if you don't just slide through, but stay a while.
As with anything in this endeavor, personal preference is key. Both in what you like, as well as what is needed for a happy ending.
Here’s the only concern, gas operated military rifles chambered for 7.62x51 are designed to support bullets from 147 to 175 grain so shooting.308 from a military rifle that are loaded with bullets lighter than 147 grain or heavier than 175 grain could be problematic. However, the 110 grain and 220 grain bullets have not been factory loaded in .308 for many years. Now, the best load out there today for long range target shooting from a 7.62 gas gun or a .308 bolt gun is the M118LR round. My scores in NRA Long-Range Competition with that round proved to me it was more accurate than 175 grain FGMM.
Love your vids, keep up the great work!
From the Heading - I was hoping to get some factual information for both, but you were entertaining. Thank You
What a voice, you sound like a radio DJ. Thank for the video.
6 inches COMPLETELY blew out that box. 👁️ 👄 👁️
The L1A1 has an adjustable gas port to accommodate various powder charges or states of gas port fouling.
Both I got a lot of military surplus of the 762x51 for range day and I stock up on high quality stuff for self defense and hunting
Enjoyed the shootin and humor as allwayz.
I’ve shot both from same firearm since 1965 ,armer piercing, red n green tracers . Then the hunting rounds . Just depends what u want to do
A rum dum in the hold of a ship sold my grandfather his 308 and almost 3 boxes of ammunition. He always gets his deer and sometimes 2 depending on the population. Forty years later, after he passed he had 7 rounds left. Other than cleaning that gun never left it's case except to hunt and the fact he had 7 bullets left he never missed a shot either
I'd have to go back through your videos but I don't remember ever seeing a single projectile exit the back of that sand box. It's just an automatic fail no matter the cartridge! 😂
I due time we will change that
@@bananaballistics you do time? How does she feel
I just want to say, I love your videos. Thanks for the joyful content.
Thanks for the testing! Glad I stocked up on 1k rounds each of these for my long-range battle rifle.
Milspec 7.62 velocity is 823 m/s or 2,700 ft/sec. Would be interesting with actual military ammunition
Wrong
Wat is actual military ammo?
@@Andrew-s8j8o surplus? South African? Portuguese? Hirtenberger?
Now I want to see a difference between the 556 and the 308!
I run both interchangeably. No problem in the bolt gun, ar10, or the m14s. Yes, some minor headspace differences, but function is good for all. May be some accuracy variations at longer ranges
I've had .308 expand and fail to eject in my M1A match a few times. Maybe 1 in 40. It could've been the ammo, but I just quit shooting the .308 through it, no issues since.
I've never seen the ammo destroy a weapon though. I have .308 bolt, it shoots both with no issues and no sight adjustments out to about 400 yards.
I’ve always been told you can’t shoot a 308 rd out of a military gun designed for 7.62 nato but you can shoot a 7.62 nato in a civilian gun designed for 308..
You’re right, as .308 Win is a higher pressure round. However, read your owner’s manual. Many firearms can shoot both out of the same weapon.
@@leroyjenkins4811 yes, that’s what I stated ..typically a rifle designed to use 308 caliber can use 7.62 rd.
I have a Howa 308. Howa is totally against firing 7.62 through it. Kinda nutz
@@leroyjenkins4811 it can
7.62x51 chambers are slightly oversized, 308 is generally higher pressure (if I remember correctly), and cases are thinner, causing occasional case head separation.
I love these comparisons. I like the sand box test just wish there was a way to tell what the depth was on it.
Good show, very entertaining and informative.
Michael
I chose an 18" Ballistic Advantage "optimized" barrel it handles both no issues.
Can’t believe for young person
You have the best show
Your gonna be number one ..
I’m good at knowing who is good
Congrats
What to stock up on depends on what weapon system they'll be used in. 7.62x51 has tougher brass that can hold up better to battle rifles like the CETME, HK G3/91 family that are known to tear off rims of .308 cases due to their violent extraction/ejection. M1a/M14 owners should stock 7.62x51 as well as their gas systems are not adjustable and designed/tuned for 7.62x51 pressures. .308 can put a real beating on them. (Similar issue to the M1 Garand being designed for M2 ball pressures and can be damaged/worn out prematurely buy repeated use of much higher pressure commercial 30-06 ammo.)
So the 762/51 is mil spec. Sealed and crimped primer and a slightly tighter crimp on the bullet. The shell casing is also slightly thicker. I think they also have a specific powder that meets NATO spec. 308 On the other hand has a wide variety of powder and velocity options, each proprietary to the brand. For sure, 308 is much easier to reload than 7.62/51. ALL DAY LONG!!!
Please explain to me why exactly you feel that 7.62x51 NATO is so much harder to reload than 308win. I have loaded thousand of 308 and many many thousands of 7.62 NATO. I full length size and trim if necessary all of them. Maybe the primer pockets may need a little extra to clean but that's absolutely the only difference. If you aneal the brass first then I don't find any difference. Please explain yourself.
OK I'm Amy 5 min into video and I will watch to the end :) But 7.62x51 is a military round as you know and it is designed for penetration, armor piercing and all of that. .308 Winchester is a more powerful round as it is factory loaded hotter than the mil spec for 7.62x51. It however is primarily a hunting cartridge and hunters are not typically worried about penetrating steel since I have never heard of a hunter encounter with an armored deer ;) Hunters do want good penetration but we are talking bone and muscle tissue and expansion is more important than penetrating steel your lumber demo clearly showed superior expansion in the .308 which of course means less armor piercing.
.308. As a hunter I don't want the bullet just sliding through. I want damage! Your tests show the .308 does more damage ( i.e. exit hole on the plywood.). The .308 did go all the through the last steel shot as well......
Solid copper projectiles are very erratic if you don't clean your barrel between firing a jacketed bullet and a monometal bullet. Something about the gilding metal from the jacketed bullet doesnt interact well with solid copper. Ron Spomer and Backfire have both made mention of it in several video's.
You post a lot of very informative videos. Thanks for your work. I really appreciate that you're saving me a lot of money by not having to run the tests myself. But I'm still gonna do it just for the fun! Stay safe my friend.
BTW, I'm gonna copy your sleds. Great idea
7.62 fmj is usually cheaper ( or it used to be) if your buying mil surp. I know WW white box is higher. .308 gives you more choices for hunting / expanding bullets. My M1A likes them both. Thx for the test! Poooor Terry!
Sometimes higher power makes the less result because it dumps the energy too quickly. Some say a 30-06 is better that 300 win mag for grizzly bears because it is less energy and will go deeper. A 7.62x39 at point blank will push through or deeper into a tree than 308. I once heard it said a 308 will shoot through a tree if the tree is 200 yards away (but not up close). Of course, it seems many people try tests and different results are given.
Put a 1/4” plate about 2” behind the plywood in the concrete test to see the remaining energy of the bulletin.
Depends on what your using the round for. Range practice, 7.62, hunting, .308
Awesome channel. I seen so many videos of 5.56. Keep up the great work. Think Terry needs danger pay lol
Which would I stock up on? The cheaper one, with one caveat - has to be clean burning.
If I recall correctly the 7.62 is loaded to 60Kpsi, while the .308 can go to 62Kpsi. I believe that's reflected in the data from your shot groups. And yes, that's some amazing spreads for factory ammo!
You have used a confusing unit abbreviation. K/k when in English units means kip, which is 1000 pounds. Saying 60ksi is a bit more clear. Not trying to be a jerk, just giving some knowledge.
@@giantent763 sorry to confuse - in the US 62K is simply an abbreviation for 62,000.
I think it is nice of Terry to let you be in his videos.
I generally stock 7.62x51 nato ammo for my AR-10's in bulk, milsurp ammo is usually alot cheaper. .308 win ammo has tons more bullet, load and configuration options and that being said, is mostly more expensive. For my Bolt guns in .308 I stock several bullet types for different needs but they are more often much more expensive than milsurp ball ammo so I don't stock as many rounds of .308 win.
Enough with the sarcasm big guy not all of us are trolls some of us like your videos more than we complain !
It doesn't depend on the ballistic specs. It depends on the velocity and materials in the actual ammo and the targets. In general, Faster = more deformation on impact if you're hitting above the pressure driven shock threshold of the materials and are creating a shockwave. Otherwise, you are just measuring the plastic deformaability of casting and the material it's fired at and the drag through the target in the trans-sonic regime. In both cases you're going to see a classic hydrodynamic instability emerge that occurs whenever a high density wave impinges on a lower density boundary. This instability will cause turbulence and can overcome rifling as well as the aerodynamic stability that comes from having the center of mass behind the aerodynamic center of drag that can initiate tumbling. This is actually a really nice bit of physics that is accessible to most people who did ok in high school math. It shows up literally everywhere from virus particles traveling through an n95 mask to aeroplanes traveling near the speed of sound to sand and rocks moving downstream in rivers, and into the heart of nuclear explosions!
The difference is in the barrels chamber 😮 No idea why this dead horse continues to be whipped
Since the bullets are different weights and seeing the different behavior penetrating the lumber brings into question if the bullet construction is the same.
Depending on the purpose of the round, the 308 not going through the metal means it transfered all the energy into the wood. Am I missing something. Why did 7.62 'win'
I believe it's because this is a penetration test, not an energy transfer test. The 7.62 bulged and split the steel plate more than the .308 did. So it had better penetration capability compared to 7.62.
@johncoulter1507 oh, hunting body armor not dinner. I keep forgetting this is an entertainment channel haha
The 308 won in my opinion, sorry if that wasn’t clear lol
I'll take the .308, seen the holes they leave. I never had to shoot through concrete walls or steel. The piece of plywood with the back blown out, is the desired effect in Combat, not straight through penetration. Also it destroyed the box, found a way to move its energy through the barrier.
If you have a .308 rated barrel, you're going to find that 7.62 x 51 has trouble extracting. It has a thicker walled cartridge and lower pressure. You'd think the lower pressure would mean less expansion on the brass - and maybe it does - but it doesn't matter; the thicker wall will make extracting the brass a little tougher. Especially in a semi-auto. I don't own a bolt action, so can't comment on that. Buyer beware.
Like your bullet/shell collection!
I blew my neck disks out. The 30-06 hurt so bad, I thought hunting was done UNTIL I got S&W AR10 AWESOME I was back in the game. I use very very expensive ammo for hunting, for farting around I used mil surplus. I have 2 great scopes, both on quick detach scope mounts. For who is woundering, it kept the zero. Yes shocking. Great video.
Which gun are used for these tests let us know 🎉
I have found that in my Century Arms .308 Sportster some cheaper .308 ammo will not cycle however the Winchester 7.62 x .51 (the same that U were using) had the power to cycle the rifle perfectly.
"These thing just opened up."
In "Across an Angry Sea" by Cedric Delves (then CO D Sqdr 22 SAS) relates how, during the Falklands War, they captured an Argentine officer, who acted like he just could not care. That did not endear him to his captors. When they found a hunting rifle with a powerful scope in this possession, that kicked his image down a few rungs of the ladder. Still he did not care. Only when they found in his possession very Non-Geneva Convention hunting ammo did he twig on from the now very angry faces around him that he was a long way from home and entirely without friends.
Which one would I stock up on? The one that is on sale obviously.
Great video! I love these tests.
I love him, a very entertaining man 😂
Good info, really enjoy, thanks
You are doing penetrating tests. But what is really “better” a clean shoot thru or transferring more energy to the target?
350 Chevy engine
Hornady.308 Black.