I find ear plugs help with playing louder, also just protects your ears. Drums are already loud, so I find ear plugs just make me more inclined to play louder as everything sounds more quiet with them. And it doesn't hurt or tax my ears, so again I'm more inclined to play loud and not hold back.
Yes! Jacob makes a huge point about letting the heel rest on the ground between strokes. So few teachers even mention the value of this. I started doing it about a year ago and it has totally opened up my kick drum technique.
Man, growing up - all through High School I marched in drum line and played along to Rush and Van Halen in my bedroom. For Years! I'm so glad I got that foundation before discovering jazz. Loudness creates a musical energy that you just can't get otherwise. Cool topic.
All rudiments on pillows, listening for consistency in hits just like a practice pad. I actually will rehears my whole set just on pillows set up like my kit which makes me generate my own bounce if needed. Strength gets built and also reassurance that if you can do the set on pillows the kit will be no problem!
Good stuff! Something I want to add is leverage. If you watch stadium drummers, rather than holding the stick at the usual fulcrum, they're holding the stick all the way at the butt of the stick. While this results in less rebound as well as more perceived stick weight the amount of leverage gained actually significantly helps in playing louder. The same concept goes for the bass pedal. You'll see a lot of heavy hitters play with their toes all the way back to the middle of the pedal. This results in more leverage and a much louder bass drum stroke, but will be a slight bit harder to press. Of course there's a limit to that, go too far back and you won't be able to get a solid hit on the bass drum any more. Then, if you go to a lighter session, you can always revert back to playing up the stick and pedal again, for an instant reduction in volume.
Not much information comes up with this topic on the technique of hitting hard but still being able to maintain control and not get stiff. Been looking for something like this. Thanks for this IMPORTANT video.
Main problem playing loud is letting go of the stick just as you hit the drum and it comes flying back at your face. I matrix’d dodged a pirate eye just a couple days ago. The danger is real.
Your points are very interesting. I have my drums in my garage with neighbors surrounding my home. So I've always tried to play softer, or quietly, at least that's what I'm thinking now, Because I've notice when I just play for fun AND PLAY LOUDER, I've actually noticed I play, or sound noticeably better. I think your points give my thoughts some weight. The strokes are more defined and my technique seems better. So I'm starting to play like I want to sound, if that makes any sense. I guess it's like I was holding back on my abilities when I played more CONSERVATIVE? I CAN REALLY TELL YOU GUYS ARE SINCERE, in your care for your viewers. Thanks guys.
I've heard it for decades; "how does a skinny dude like you hit the drums so damn hard?" Proper posture & technique matched with appropriate equipment. The better your technique, the longer you can keep the level of volume up. So glad that was mentioned in the video. It's the key to everything. I also think there is a range of volume that drums and cymbals need to be played at in order to take advantage of their sonic characteristics. Certain cymbals need to be hit harder than others. Certain drumheads respond at certain volumes. Think extra-thin K crashes vs Sabian AAXplosion - Diplomat vs Emperor. The key to being a musician as a drummer is figuring out what volume level, equipment and technique is most appropriate for your context. Oh, and earplugs too. They free you up to hit as hard as you need, especially in rock gigs.
Great gusto addressing this/your issue, most with channels wouldn't go down this hole because of fear...that's how you progress to higher levels right? This is me, many thanks
Soundguy for 35 years, over 5000 shows. 90% of drummers play WAY too loud! about 10% know how to play at a correct level for their situation. There are times when playing real loud is appropriate, when dynamics call for it. My biggest complaint is a weak singer not singing loud enough standing in front of a drummer who's over the top. If you look at the vocal mic signal, you realize there's way more drums bleeding on to the vocal mic than there are vocals. You can get the vocal to be heard, but the drums will ALWAYS be louder than the vocal, creating an earsplitting situation that lasts all night. I've never come across a drummer who didn't play loud enough. And I suffer from tinnitus because of it.
I can appreciate your struggle. My bands play loud. I hit hard. However, we're never inappropriate and get complimented all the time on the "balance" of the band. Some stages are set up so vocal mics are so dang close they're effectively overheads and it won't matter if I tap the cymbals or play through them. We try to set up in such a way to avoid that if we can. It may look a little unorthodox but it sure works.
@@RhymesWithCarbon Bless your heart for being one of the few that are aware of these things. BTW, the worst room is a quonset hut. The half moon buildings made out od corrugated metal. Usually the snare reflection is spread out over time. In a half moon, ALL of the snare reflection hits you at one time, absolutely brain rattling. In these cases, try to set the kit off to one side to soften this effect.
@@getsmarter5412 oh man you’re right. Rooms have an effect on the equipment I bring. You’ll appreciate this too: “ok drummer, what drums do you want in your monitor?” “None” “NONE?” “Dude I Play PLENTY loud, the last person I need to hear in the monitor is myself”
@@mattfrischman2508 Well, think about it for a sec. When recording, do you cut the lead vocal while standing in front of a live trap kit and guitar amp? No- because it sounds like crap! So what's the difference when live? Nothing, it still sounds like crap. Bless the hearts of those good soundguys that can make sense out of a senseless, crap situation. That's what ALL members of the band have to be aware of. The LOUDEST bands are the one's with the WEAKEST lead singer! BTW, get the guitarists to at least tilt their amps back. Most guitarists aren't hearing their amp, their hearing their amp shooting past their ankles, bouncing off the faces of the first row!
I joined a particular band several years ago replacing the original drummer. When we played the my first gig as their new drummer, the sound guy asked if they were going to have the same problem they always had with the old drummer. The bass player turned to me smiling and said, No. Scott won't have a problem having most of his hits not trigger the noise gate! The noise gate wasn't set high at all, but at first I was nervous not reaching the gate setting. I didn't have a problem. And I also follow the greater than 90° rule!
@@8020drummer I love you dude! 😄 lt's mostly that the last guy played really quiet most of the time.. But yes, there was a real concern when I joined this particular band that I wouldn't play loud enough! It was a rare freeing moment where me being a drummer (I use the term lightly (no pun intended)) was asked to play loud if I could!
One thing about the Bassdrum stroke is very different. Nate tend to stick the beater to the drumhead wich gets a sharper but shorter and muffled sound than the letting bounce by Jacob (unless the BD is stuffed with pillows), wich gives mostly a way bigger sound perceived as louder. To me It’s also helpful to Study old masters. You’ll find a lot of inspiration there. The diversity of highest quality is huge, and today with TH-cam we have access… I think maybe the first drummer who knew how to play loud and efficient was Buddy Rich. In this context I would even risk a comparison to what Bruce Lee is to martial arts is Buddy Rich to drumming.
@@ml-ei3nz that’s just a demo. As I cover in a video you should be able to let the stroke rebound or also bury it. But unless I’m wrong most of the time when he’s playing for real he’s burying it
As much as I admire with Wide Eyed Amazement when watching the late Buddy Rich (on the Tonight show years ago with Johnny Carson), I would change that Ratio comparison. Bruce Lee is to Martial Arts as Neil Peart is to Drumming. Buddy was an abolute Speed Demon who made Drums "sing" , But Neil Peart took that the next level with all his Percussion Acumen. I am a 70 YO, retiree, Resurrected Drummer, after a 50 Year Hiatus in 1969), who plays Drums to My Music for a pleasure Hobby. I play to My Music : CCR, Eagles, Clapton, Winwood, Mellencamp, Fleetwood Mac,Stones, Beatles, Cars, Talking Heads, Yes, Animals, Hollies, and even Ronstadt [Love her as the real first DIVA of Rock / Country Rock], Bonnie Rait, and more; about 1 hour a day.
Just look at any early Billy Cobham , as Terry Bozzio says , he's been looking but Billy did it harder at fulll speed than well....anyone !! , The Stadium concept is what I call playing big , which means larger arm movements , your trying to hit as hard as possible without killing tone , which means big movements and letting the stick do the work. Much harder at high speeds !!
Hold on, now. I specifically practice the forearm-pronation-strokes, and that's because of Hannes Grossmann. I *think* that's how he plays steady 12-o-clock strokes for as long as he does at the speeds he does (230+bpm).
I find that to be true. I have zero problem playing loud or what I think is holding back… One of my last shows the sound engineer told me I hit the snare like I’m playing in an arena. I try to work on the opposite.
Also our music director every time our swing band plays an outdoor festival. I make friends with the sound engineer early and get extra mics on the kit 😉
Are there really drummers who struggle to play loud? I find the opposite is the case, lots of drummers seem to be unable to play softer without loosing the energy.
@@RhymesWithCarbon For me it started from not wanting to drive people crazy, before I had a separate building to play in. I've always been very protective of my ears.
Honestly, I think a lot of this advice isn't that useful. I use many grips, for volume control, for sound. Tell Gadd he sat too low or got a thin sound. It's more individual. Just be yourself and see what the band says...
While that IS a thing too, it's harder than you think to play rock music in clubs for 4 hours (sometimes even more) and keep up with big amps. Anyone can hit hard, but to keep up the volume for 4 hours and not be too sore to play another 4 hours the very next night, it takes proper mechanics.
Cool video. But I never struggle to play loud, I was struggling to play soft and the traditional grip help me with that. Matched grip, it's easily the most loud way to play drums. For me, the old drummers that are still playing drums with ease and without injury at a very high level are really the one I'm watching the most. You know, it's easy for someone to talk about having a long carreer without injury when they are still in their 20's or 30's, compare to very active drummers of 60 years old or more.
Ive been working on this playing a lot of pop music, wanna know whats really hard? Loud Quarter notes at slower tempos on the bass drum that flow, with no anticipation or hesitation
@@RoaroftheTiger True but that’s when you become a more mature drummer. Most young kids don’t get into drums because it’s an instrument to be played with taste and refinement. No, most kids get into drums because they can be LOUD. Hopefully after a few years of playing and being in different musical situations, drummers do become more refined/tasteful.
@@drummer78 - I agree ... But the Gent who started this thread; believes such Drummers are Non-Existent. Being nearly "ripe" myself. I confess, to have made nearly every possible "faux pas" possible. But I always knew the Music was a collaborative effort. NOT a - "Me, Myself, I & Mine", but an Ensemble. You know that Space, that was (still ?)on a Report Card - "Works & Plays Well with Others". hey ! Maybe It was Good Parenting ??? Oh! Thanks for Chiming-In.
any tips on getting hihat foot chicks and splashes to be louder? I like keeping the hihat open-closed patern going on the foot while switching to ride with the hand, but because it's much quieter I have to push the hihat close Mic way up which sounds a lot harsher than the overheads. it'd be nice to have them be about the same volume playing the hihat with the foot as the hand
Interesting how is approach to play louder is the absolute opposite from mine. I keep my beater buried by keeping my leg engaged, and kick off the pedal - the return weight of my leg (and some times body) make the strike - it's about the only way I can play double bass. I also rely on fingers for about 95% of my strikes. Elbows and wrists are reserved for very slow very loud playing, which helps really dial in consistent power at various speeds.
I think for me is the opposite, I struggle to play quietly. Even when it comes to side sticks I put way too much power into my strokes. Might it be because of my 6'3" 220lbs build?
I thought this exactly! Way harder to play soft and not over power my music, which I have to blast right next to me on a huge amp... Playing with finesse is way more challenging and sounds far better in most cases
Victor Wooten told my class that at his bass camps Dennis Chambers visits often to give drum lessons and he gets the students to literally tape phone books to their forearms (hanging parallel to the forearm, toward the wrists). This makes moving your arms almost impossible, forcing nothing but wrist and finger action to strike the drum. With this approach, it wouldn’t matter how big (or little) a dude you are - the velocity of the stick is in reaction to the stick fulcrum and squeeze. The technique itself decides how loud the strike will be, not the strength of the player. See: John Bonham (he didn’t hit “hard”)
Could be, but I'm 6'5" and heavier than you haha. I've always found it easier to play quietly; I started off as a jazz player so I really had to train myself to play loud and build some stamina for big live shows.
@@liennto I'm glad you brought up Bonham - he didn't hit "hard" but he sure played with authority. Big drums, big cymbals require a level of power in order to get them to respond and resonate. He didn't have to hit 'em HARD, he just hit 'em RIGHT!
So many drummers have the problem of ONLY being able to play loud that drum education has become a bit reactionary. If you take it too literally you end up with the opposite problem. What it really comes down to is you need to copy the players who sound like what you want to sound like.
Hmm, I just might have to be somewhat of a devils advocate on this one. I certainly think one can practice dynamics and softer and harder playing. But I think drums is such an emotional instrument and more or less an extension of yourself. So in essence I think you either play hard or not. And to try to change it will be almost impossible since it will conflict too much with who you are … Well, that’s my two cents. Great upload nevertheless 🙏🏻
Flowerhead, very intuitive comments. All instruments are emotional.....But the Drums are the one instruments that involve the Power of Your Strokes to affect the Volume without the use of Amps, expressing your dynamics and emotions. Piano [maybe you could pound the keys for some volume enhancements ], harps, Guitars, any windward instruments, Brass instruments, etc. As a 70 YO, retiree, who plays drums (after a 50 Year Hiatus form 1969), to My Music about 1 hour a day as a Hobby, I typically enjoy watching UT videos like the 80/20 Drummer, Drumeo, Rob Brown, Stephen Taylor, and others looking for tips to enhance my playing. With Inflation.....your 2 Cents is now 3 Cents and spot on. BTW, if I want to play louder, I will use different size Sticks (2B , 5B, etc. and Nylon tipped, stick material also affect the sounds... Hickory, maple, etc.. I have a pair of what I think are Oak nylon tipped sticks (not sure of the size bc the stamp is erased), since circa 1968-69 from my teenage playing days in our garage band.
@@Chiroman527 Yes. That’s the way I’ve done it. 5b’s live and 5a’s in the studio. Now I use 55a’s for both. I play soft ghost notes all the time, but my main hits are rimshots - always! It’s just the way I feel drums. And to change it I don’t try to change me, but rather the instrument. For instance I use “big fat snare” dampeners to soften my sound, but my playing pretty much remains the same. And if I go to far from my “natural playing” then I just don’t feel or sound good. It’s just how I transfer myself onto the drums. And I don’t think I’ve ever really come across anyone who’s not pretty much the same. We all have a dynamic range of course, but jazz drummers are jazz drummers, and rock drummers are rock drummers. It’s about emotion, identity and preferd outlet I think. So the essence of the video (in my interpretation - to play louder and more assertive as a jazz drummers) becomes somewhat counterproductive in a sense. Well, well. Please pay me a visit and see if I can offer you anything ✌🏻
Here’s a typical “natural” example of my playing. Subtle ghost notes and accents, but yet assertive with the major notes/hits. th-cam.com/users/shortsyPiLnhL9TdU?feature=share
I once watched a video of a pro drummer who said one hour a day practice was enough to get him into a position of prominence in the drumming community. Me being an entrepreneur and already knowing about the pareto principle for well over a decade and applying to other areas of my life and studying people like Tony Robbins, Jim Rohn and Tom Bilyeu, I thought to myself, what would happen if I practiced an hour a day, or what about two hours or three or even more if my body was capable. So I though fuck it, lets just go David Goggins on the drum kit and I started doing 2-3-4-5 hour and more a day. YES you heard that right, That's the equivalent of doing a 26 mile London Marathon per day on the drums. And I didn't think there would be enough things to learn in that amount of time, but guess what? Being an entrepreneur, i actually managed to make this shit happen and I have put in probably the best part of 5000 hours in the first three and a half years of me playing. That's almost half way to the 10 thousand hour rule. Honestly my body is like totally fucked, but on the positive side I think I may have found a cure for degenerative brain disorders through the aid of drumming, because four years ago I couldn't hold a drumstick in my left hand without dropping it . (Ask Carlos Brown, the drummer for the Birmingham common wealth games.) Did I mention that I only started playing drums when I was 47. I also believe I have Asperger's, but that's another story. I would have probably been dead by now if it wasn't for drumming. Again , music saved my life, but lets not mention the fact the the petro/chemical industry is trying to genocide a large part of the population. I'm just a rock and roll devil that started playing rhythm guitar and vocals over forty years ago, and nobody had any belief in me other than myself. But I digress again. So what is the optimum amount of practice time that a drummer should be putting in every day? Because I have a challenge. I once did an 8 hour straight session of just doing paradiddles on my double kick pedal. I couldn't walk straight for a few days after, but I completed the task with minimal rest room breaks. Wanna challenge me to a shamanic drum ritualistic multiple hour long session. I'm up for it you pussies. I can literally go for hours.... Please don't ignore this post. I need answers to questions that I am not sure can be answered. But some feedback would be appreciated... And yes every single word I have written here is genuine, and I have actually developed my own unique style of drumming over that time, with a massive emphasis on dynamics due to the fact that I live on a council estate ghetto, if I play to loud I either get lynched or the local bag heads break into my house and steal my kit. Avenged sevenfold jazz style FTW. You know they created jazz in the early part of the last century to stop the Nazi sheriffs finding out where the speakeasies were. Good job we don't have covid Nazis about these days to suck all our fun right....
This is loud for jazz players. This is not loud at all for hard rock drummers. You're trying to go in a territory that is the opposite of the drummer you are. No right or wrong here but the reality is that the technique you developed for all your years of playing will never lead to loud playing.
Nice humility. You don't play that loud because you're the philosopher/scientist/educator of drums - and loud is not your goal. Yet, other drummers are LOUD. I have found that less loud, obedient drummers often get the gig because "beat buddha" the noise animal is so intolerable. On the other hand, being able to bring strong dynamics is important. Using yourself as the "antithesis" (when it fits)_ is admirable.
I never had a problem of playing loud on drums because when I was young drums = loud. My issue was to play soft/dynamics. Playing different types of music apart from just punk/hard rock helped. Playing in a band that had a folkie made me focus on “bringing it downs”/being tasteful.
I find ear plugs help with playing louder, also just protects your ears. Drums are already loud, so I find ear plugs just make me more inclined to play louder as everything sounds more quiet with them. And it doesn't hurt or tax my ears, so again I'm more inclined to play loud and not hold back.
Definitely. The only I DONT use earplugs is when I'm playing really light stuff
Yes! Jacob makes a huge point about letting the heel rest on the ground between strokes. So few teachers even mention the value of this. I started doing it about a year ago and it has totally opened up my kick drum technique.
🙏🏻
Man, growing up - all through High School I marched in drum line and played along to Rush and Van Halen in my bedroom. For Years! I'm so glad I got that foundation before discovering jazz. Loudness creates a musical energy that you just can't get otherwise.
Cool topic.
All rudiments on pillows, listening for consistency in hits just like a practice pad. I actually will rehears my whole set just on pillows set up like my kit which makes me generate my own bounce if needed. Strength gets built and also reassurance that if you can do the set on pillows the kit will be no problem!
Good stuff! Something I want to add is leverage. If you watch stadium drummers, rather than holding the stick at the usual fulcrum, they're holding the stick all the way at the butt of the stick. While this results in less rebound as well as more perceived stick weight the amount of leverage gained actually significantly helps in playing louder. The same concept goes for the bass pedal. You'll see a lot of heavy hitters play with their toes all the way back to the middle of the pedal. This results in more leverage and a much louder bass drum stroke, but will be a slight bit harder to press. Of course there's a limit to that, go too far back and you won't be able to get a solid hit on the bass drum any more. Then, if you go to a lighter session, you can always revert back to playing up the stick and pedal again, for an instant reduction in volume.
Having a great sound guy makes a huge difference when you play at extreme volumes or larger venues.
And noise cancelling in-ear monitors 👍
Not much information comes up with this topic on the technique of hitting hard but still being able to maintain control and not get stiff. Been looking for something like this. Thanks for this IMPORTANT video.
Main problem playing loud is letting go of the stick just as you hit the drum and it comes flying back at your face. I matrix’d dodged a pirate eye just a couple days ago. The danger is real.
Your points are very interesting. I have my drums in my garage with neighbors surrounding my home. So I've always tried to play softer, or quietly, at least that's what I'm thinking now, Because I've notice when I just play for fun AND PLAY LOUDER, I've actually noticed I play, or sound noticeably better. I think your points give my thoughts some weight. The strokes are more defined and my technique seems better. So I'm starting to play like I want to sound, if that makes any sense. I guess it's like I was holding back on my abilities when I played more CONSERVATIVE? I CAN REALLY TELL YOU GUYS ARE SINCERE, in your care for your viewers. Thanks guys.
same...my sound absorbing studio is on the property line with neighbors, by habit I've played softer. Time to change
8:31
"-Yeah that was cool..
- **Roll eyes** "
Hahaha!! great content as usual! It did confirm I'm doing the right things!
I've heard it for decades; "how does a skinny dude like you hit the drums so damn hard?" Proper posture & technique matched with appropriate equipment. The better your technique, the longer you can keep the level of volume up. So glad that was mentioned in the video. It's the key to everything. I also think there is a range of volume that drums and cymbals need to be played at in order to take advantage of their sonic characteristics. Certain cymbals need to be hit harder than others. Certain drumheads respond at certain volumes. Think extra-thin K crashes vs Sabian AAXplosion - Diplomat vs Emperor. The key to being a musician as a drummer is figuring out what volume level, equipment and technique is most appropriate for your context. Oh, and earplugs too. They free you up to hit as hard as you need, especially in rock gigs.
Kenny Aranoff put out a great video a while ago similarly going over using the mechanics of all your joints in conjunction when playing
Great gusto addressing this/your issue, most with channels wouldn't go down this hole because of fear...that's how you progress to higher levels right? This is me, many thanks
Soundguy for 35 years, over 5000 shows. 90% of drummers play WAY too loud! about 10% know how to play at a correct level for their situation. There are times when playing real loud is appropriate, when dynamics call for it. My biggest complaint is a weak singer not singing loud enough standing in front of a drummer who's over the top. If you look at the vocal mic signal, you realize there's way more drums bleeding on to the vocal mic than there are vocals. You can get the vocal to be heard, but the drums will ALWAYS be louder than the vocal, creating an earsplitting situation that lasts all night. I've never come across a drummer who didn't play loud enough. And I suffer from tinnitus because of it.
I can appreciate your struggle. My bands play loud. I hit hard. However, we're never inappropriate and get complimented all the time on the "balance" of the band. Some stages are set up so vocal mics are so dang close they're effectively overheads and it won't matter if I tap the cymbals or play through them. We try to set up in such a way to avoid that if we can. It may look a little unorthodox but it sure works.
@@RhymesWithCarbon Bless your heart for being one of the few that are aware of these things. BTW, the worst room is a quonset hut. The half moon buildings made out od corrugated metal. Usually the snare reflection is spread out over time. In a half moon, ALL of the snare reflection hits you at one time, absolutely brain rattling. In these cases, try to set the kit off to one side to soften this effect.
@@getsmarter5412 oh man you’re right. Rooms have an effect on the equipment I bring. You’ll appreciate this too: “ok drummer, what drums do you want in your monitor?”
“None”
“NONE?”
“Dude I Play PLENTY loud, the last person I need to hear in the monitor is myself”
This is so true-
But- when the guitarists keep turning up we feel like we have to play louder. Is this a chicken and egg situation?!?
@@mattfrischman2508 Well, think about it for a sec. When recording, do you cut the lead vocal while standing in front of a live trap kit and guitar amp? No- because it sounds like crap! So what's the difference when live? Nothing, it still sounds like crap. Bless the hearts of those good soundguys that can make sense out of a senseless, crap situation. That's what ALL members of the band have to be aware of. The LOUDEST bands are the one's with the WEAKEST lead singer! BTW, get the guitarists to at least tilt their amps back. Most guitarists aren't hearing their amp, their hearing their amp shooting past their ankles, bouncing off the faces of the first row!
I joined a particular band several years ago replacing the original drummer. When we played the my first gig as their new drummer, the sound guy asked if they were going to have the same problem they always had with the old drummer. The bass player turned to me smiling and said, No. Scott won't have a problem having most of his hits not trigger the noise gate! The noise gate wasn't set high at all, but at first I was nervous not reaching the gate setting. I didn't have a problem. And I also follow the greater than 90° rule!
Everybody who thinks nobody ever asks the drummer to play louder, feast your eyes 👆👆
@@8020drummer I love you dude! 😄 lt's mostly that the last guy played really quiet most of the time.. But yes, there was a real concern when I joined this particular band that I wouldn't play loud enough! It was a rare freeing moment where me being a drummer (I use the term lightly (no pun intended)) was asked to play loud if I could!
I actually came across this this past weekend. Environment is also a big factor. Never thought I'd ever be asked to play louder before... lol
@@marsjokes nice to be able to let go!
I have exactly the opposite problem
The point made at 12:45 was superb...
I have this problem. Thank you for the video
Well done.
great video. thanks
Excellent !
One thing about the Bassdrum stroke is very different. Nate tend to stick the beater to the drumhead wich gets a sharper but shorter and muffled sound than the letting bounce by Jacob (unless the BD is stuffed with pillows), wich gives mostly a way bigger sound perceived as louder.
To me It’s also helpful to Study old masters. You’ll find a lot of inspiration there. The diversity of highest quality is huge, and today with TH-cam we have access…
I think maybe the first drummer who knew how to play loud and efficient was Buddy Rich. In this context I would even risk a comparison to what Bruce Lee is to martial arts is Buddy Rich to drumming.
I don’t think he’s playing off the drum. I was there in the room and his approach is similar to mine, though with refinements
@@8020drummer 7:28 tells another story
@@ml-ei3nz that’s just a demo. As I cover in a video you should be able to let the stroke rebound or also bury it. But unless I’m wrong most of the time when he’s playing for real he’s burying it
Buddy Rich is not the Bruce Lee of drumming my guy that is wild. If anyone fits this its Tony Williams.
As much as I admire with Wide Eyed Amazement when watching the late Buddy Rich (on the Tonight show years ago with Johnny Carson), I would change that Ratio comparison. Bruce Lee is to Martial Arts as Neil Peart is to Drumming. Buddy was an abolute Speed Demon who made Drums "sing" , But Neil Peart took that the next level with all his Percussion Acumen. I am a 70 YO, retiree, Resurrected Drummer, after a 50 Year Hiatus in 1969), who plays Drums to My Music for a pleasure Hobby. I play to My Music : CCR, Eagles, Clapton, Winwood, Mellencamp, Fleetwood Mac,Stones, Beatles, Cars, Talking Heads, Yes, Animals, Hollies, and even Ronstadt [Love her as the real first DIVA of Rock / Country Rock], Bonnie Rait, and more; about 1 hour a day.
Just look at any early Billy Cobham , as Terry Bozzio says , he's been looking but Billy did it harder at fulll speed than well....anyone !! , The Stadium concept is what I call playing big , which means larger arm movements , your trying to hit as hard as possible without killing tone , which means big movements and letting the stick do the work. Much harder at high speeds !!
Nate: 'Struggle To Play Loud on Drums?'
Drummers: 💥🥁💥💥🥁💥💥🥁🥁💥💥🥁
😂
Hold on, now. I specifically practice the forearm-pronation-strokes, and that's because of Hannes Grossmann. I *think* that's how he plays steady 12-o-clock strokes for as long as he does at the speeds he does (230+bpm).
HANNES IS LYFE. Unreal monster of technique...
@@TupDigital i_see_youre_a_man_of_culture_as_well.jpg
"Hey man, the groove is nice, but could you just play a lot louder?" - no one ever in the history of music to any drummer.
Also, every band director I’ve ever played for in a large venue
I find that to be true. I have zero problem playing loud or what I think is holding back…
One of my last shows the sound engineer told me I hit the snare like I’m playing in an arena. I try to work on the opposite.
Also our music director every time our swing band plays an outdoor festival. I make friends with the sound engineer early and get extra mics on the kit 😉
Are there really drummers who struggle to play loud? I find the opposite is the case, lots of drummers seem to be unable to play softer without loosing the energy.
I do. I start losing control with heavier hitting
Oh yeah. I think it's a combination of lousy technique, inferior equipment and probably - worth a bet - that it's an ear pain defense mechanism.
@@RhymesWithCarbon For me it started from not wanting to drive people crazy, before I had a separate building to play in. I've always been very protective of my ears.
Honestly, I think a lot of this advice isn't that useful. I use many grips, for volume control, for sound. Tell Gadd he sat too low or got a thin sound. It's more individual. Just be yourself and see what the band says...
While that IS a thing too, it's harder than you think to play rock music in clubs for 4 hours (sometimes even more) and keep up with big amps. Anyone can hit hard, but to keep up the volume for 4 hours and not be too sore to play another 4 hours the very next night, it takes proper mechanics.
Good Video 80/20... I don't see any mention of the use of different Stick sizes? Or Kick Drum beaters?
😉
Where do you wrestle/train jiu jitsu? For how long?
Cool video. But I never struggle to play loud, I was struggling to play soft and the traditional grip help me with that. Matched grip, it's easily the most loud way to play drums. For me, the old drummers that are still playing drums with ease and without injury at a very high level are really the one I'm watching the most. You know, it's easy for someone to talk about having a long carreer without injury when they are still in their 20's or 30's, compare to very active drummers of 60 years old or more.
I feel like Jacob would agree with that
Hilarious...and..yet...informative.
Pmsl @ I live here now. Too funny. Hi from down under
Ive been working on this playing a lot of pop music, wanna know whats really hard? Loud Quarter notes at slower tempos on the bass drum that flow, with no anticipation or hesitation
Gracias
Mike Mitchell, Bruner and I are the loudest drummers you know!!! Why aren’t we on this????????
soon
I want to know this drummer who doesn't play too loud.
The "one" who understands the Dynamics of the piece ?
@@RoaroftheTiger True but that’s when you become a more mature drummer. Most young kids don’t get into drums because it’s an instrument to be played with taste and refinement. No, most kids get into drums because they can be LOUD. Hopefully after a few years of playing and being in different musical situations, drummers do become more refined/tasteful.
@@drummer78 - I agree ... But the Gent who started this thread; believes such Drummers are Non-Existent. Being nearly "ripe" myself. I confess, to have made nearly every possible "faux pas" possible. But I always knew the Music was a collaborative effort. NOT a - "Me, Myself, I & Mine", but an Ensemble. You know that Space, that was (still ?)on a Report Card - "Works & Plays Well with Others". hey ! Maybe It was Good Parenting ??? Oh! Thanks for Chiming-In.
I never had much problem playing loud as I grew up listening to Bill Ward, John Bonham and later Dave Grohl but for technique turn your hands over.
15:20 oh my gosh I'm rolling
Is there a diagram of the fulcrum points that a drummer should be aware of within their play?
Excellent Guys, took the lid off dynamics for me! Big thank you!!
any tips on getting hihat foot chicks and splashes to be louder? I like keeping the hihat open-closed patern going on the foot while switching to ride with the hand, but because it's much quieter I have to push the hihat close Mic way up which sounds a lot harsher than the overheads. it'd be nice to have them be about the same volume playing the hihat with the foot as the hand
Interesting how is approach to play louder is the absolute opposite from mine. I keep my beater buried by keeping my leg engaged, and kick off the pedal - the return weight of my leg (and some times body) make the strike - it's about the only way I can play double bass.
I also rely on fingers for about 95% of my strikes. Elbows and wrists are reserved for very slow very loud playing, which helps really dial in consistent power at various speeds.
What if you have the opposite problem? I always play too loudly 🤣
The Weak Shall Fear The Strong.
I think for me is the opposite, I struggle to play quietly. Even when it comes to side sticks I put way too much power into my strokes. Might it be because of my 6'3" 220lbs build?
My highschool gym teacher told me I have the touch of a blacksmith, I imagine you have that same touch
I thought this exactly!
Way harder to play soft and not over power my music, which I have to blast right next to me on a huge amp...
Playing with finesse is way more challenging and sounds far better in most cases
Victor Wooten told my class that at his bass camps Dennis Chambers visits often to give drum lessons and he gets the students to literally tape phone books to their forearms (hanging parallel to the forearm, toward the wrists). This makes moving your arms almost impossible, forcing nothing but wrist and finger action to strike the drum. With this approach, it wouldn’t matter how big (or little) a dude you are - the velocity of the stick is in reaction to the stick fulcrum and squeeze. The technique itself decides how loud the strike will be, not the strength of the player. See: John Bonham (he didn’t hit “hard”)
Could be, but I'm 6'5" and heavier than you haha. I've always found it easier to play quietly; I started off as a jazz player so I really had to train myself to play loud and build some stamina for big live shows.
@@liennto I'm glad you brought up Bonham - he didn't hit "hard" but he sure played with authority. Big drums, big cymbals require a level of power in order to get them to respond and resonate. He didn't have to hit 'em HARD, he just hit 'em RIGHT!
one letter, one number... 2B
Said no drummer ever. It's playing at a good volume that most would struggle with.
Chapin
I found it much harder to play quieter. Worked on insane volume for years. I destroy sticks.
It would never occur to me to practice with any less intensity than I play. Mind you I've never had a drum teacher, sooo...there's that.
So many drummers have the problem of ONLY being able to play loud that drum education has become a bit reactionary. If you take it too literally you end up with the opposite problem. What it really comes down to is you need to copy the players who sound like what you want to sound like.
Hmm, I just might have to be somewhat of a devils advocate on this one. I certainly think one can practice dynamics and softer and harder playing. But I think drums is such an emotional instrument and more or less an extension of yourself. So in essence I think you either play hard or not. And to try to change it will be almost impossible since it will conflict too much with who you are …
Well, that’s my two cents. Great upload nevertheless 🙏🏻
Flowerhead, very intuitive comments. All instruments are emotional.....But the Drums are the one instruments that involve the Power of Your Strokes to affect the Volume without the use of Amps, expressing your dynamics and emotions. Piano [maybe you could pound the keys for some volume enhancements ], harps, Guitars, any windward instruments, Brass instruments, etc. As a 70 YO, retiree, who plays drums (after a 50 Year Hiatus form 1969), to My Music about 1 hour a day as a Hobby, I typically enjoy watching UT videos like the 80/20 Drummer, Drumeo, Rob Brown, Stephen Taylor, and others looking for tips to enhance my playing. With Inflation.....your 2 Cents is now 3 Cents and spot on. BTW, if I want to play louder, I will use different size Sticks (2B , 5B, etc. and Nylon tipped, stick material also affect the sounds... Hickory, maple, etc.. I have a pair of what I think are Oak nylon tipped sticks (not sure of the size bc the stamp is erased), since circa 1968-69 from my teenage playing days in our garage band.
@@Chiroman527
Yes. That’s the way I’ve done it. 5b’s live and 5a’s in the studio. Now I use 55a’s for both. I play soft ghost notes all the time, but my main hits are rimshots - always! It’s just the way I feel drums. And to change it I don’t try to change me, but rather the instrument. For instance I use “big fat snare” dampeners to soften my sound, but my playing pretty much remains the same. And if I go to far from my “natural playing” then I just don’t feel or sound good. It’s just how I transfer myself onto the drums. And I don’t think I’ve ever really come across anyone who’s not pretty much the same. We all have a dynamic range of course, but jazz drummers are jazz drummers, and rock drummers are rock drummers. It’s about emotion, identity and preferd outlet I think. So the essence of the video (in my interpretation - to play louder and more assertive as a jazz drummers) becomes somewhat counterproductive in a sense. Well, well. Please pay me a visit and see if I can offer you anything ✌🏻
Here’s a typical “natural” example of my playing. Subtle ghost notes and accents, but yet assertive with the major notes/hits.
th-cam.com/users/shortsyPiLnhL9TdU?feature=share
Nate, there's an easy way to hit harder.. eat more steak. Also, check out Eloy Casagrande, he hits like a tank.
You're last few videos have been excellent. You are just a few miles from some world class drummers, who unlike me, can do it all!
Practice extending your limbs as high over your head as possible. Feel the mechanics of all the joints moving to their extremes…
I get it……we need velocity, not touch so much, in this task.
👌🤓
If you want to know how to play loud, just watch Aaron Gillespie
I once watched a video of a pro drummer who said one hour a day practice was enough to get him into a position of prominence in the drumming community.
Me being an entrepreneur and already knowing about the pareto principle for well over a decade and applying to other areas of my life and studying people like Tony Robbins, Jim Rohn and Tom Bilyeu,
I thought to myself, what would happen if I practiced an hour a day, or what about two hours or three or even more if my body was capable.
So I though fuck it, lets just go David Goggins on the drum kit and I started doing 2-3-4-5 hour and more a day. YES you heard that right, That's the equivalent of doing a 26 mile London Marathon per day on the drums.
And I didn't think there would be enough things to learn in that amount of time, but guess what?
Being an entrepreneur, i actually managed to make this shit happen and I have put in probably the best part of 5000 hours in the first three and a half years of me playing.
That's almost half way to the 10 thousand hour rule. Honestly my body is like totally fucked, but on the positive side I think I may have found a cure for degenerative brain disorders through the aid of drumming, because four years ago I couldn't hold a drumstick in my left hand without dropping it . (Ask Carlos Brown, the drummer for the Birmingham common wealth games.)
Did I mention that I only started playing drums when I was 47.
I also believe I have Asperger's, but that's another story.
I would have probably been dead by now if it wasn't for drumming. Again , music saved my life, but lets not mention the fact the the petro/chemical industry is trying to genocide a large part of the population.
I'm just a rock and roll devil that started playing rhythm guitar and vocals over forty years ago, and nobody had any belief in me other than myself. But I digress again.
So what is the optimum amount of practice time that a drummer should be putting in every day?
Because I have a challenge. I once did an 8 hour straight session of just doing paradiddles on my double kick pedal.
I couldn't walk straight for a few days after, but I completed the task with minimal rest room breaks.
Wanna challenge me to a shamanic drum ritualistic multiple hour long session. I'm up for it you pussies.
I can literally go for hours....
Please don't ignore this post. I need answers to questions that I am not sure can be answered. But some feedback would be appreciated...
And yes every single word I have written here is genuine, and I have actually developed my own unique style of drumming over that time, with a massive emphasis on dynamics due to the fact that I live on a council estate ghetto, if I play to loud I either get lynched or the local bag heads break into my house and steal my kit.
Avenged sevenfold jazz style FTW. You know they created jazz in the early part of the last century to stop the Nazi sheriffs finding out where the speakeasies were.
Good job we don't have covid Nazis about these days to suck all our fun right....
This is loud for jazz players. This is not loud at all for hard rock drummers. You're trying to go in a territory that is the opposite of the drummer you are. No right or wrong here but the reality is that the technique you developed for all your years of playing will never lead to loud playing.
I don't know any drummers who have this problem lol
Nice humility. You don't play that loud because you're the philosopher/scientist/educator of drums - and loud is not your goal. Yet, other drummers are LOUD. I have found that less loud, obedient drummers often get the gig because "beat buddha" the noise animal is so intolerable. On the other hand, being able to bring strong dynamics is important. Using yourself as the "antithesis" (when it fits)_ is admirable.
I never had a problem of playing loud on drums because when I was young drums = loud. My issue was to play soft/dynamics. Playing different types of music apart from just punk/hard rock helped. Playing in a band that had a folkie made me focus on “bringing it downs”/being tasteful.
Real command comes with learning to play at p. That is “touch”.