In a two box system, the power box is not an amplifier, it's a discrete mains transformer and smoothing circuit, supplying clean, low voltage DC to the phono stage. In cheap phono stages this is often done in a nasty switch mode power supply mounted on the back of the plug, sometimes known as a wall wart. An easy upgrade to these boxes is to replace them with a linear power supply of the correct specification.
All power is not created equal. Dirty power destroys filter circuits like capacitors. With clean power, equipment last longer and runs better. Its not just for phono pre amps. A good line filter (smoothing circuit) is an investment, it is a lot cheaper than replacing a theater amp. That being said, the wall warts electronically, are not that bad. Billons have been sold, and used by billons of happy customers. A "better" of this type is often not audibly noticeable. A good 110v line filter is a better investment.
After all this time, i found it, the man who will finally teach me what i need to know, in a clear and simple way, so i enjoy creating my dream set-up ! Thanks !
A few years ago I met the founder of Aesthetix (Jim White) at Audio Connection, Verona, New Jersey. He is a humble and gracious gentleman. We had the pleasure to sit down with John Rutan, owner of Audio Connection, and listen to the Aesthetix lo Eclipse phono stage along with the monoblock amplifiers and preamplifier, also from Aesthetix fed to a pair of Vandersteen Model 7 speakers in Cherokee red. All of this was hooked up to an AMG Viella turntable. The sound was glorious, solid, effortless, and pristine. I, being an architect, made a comment to Jim White, prior to listening to the system, that Frank Lloyd Wright's favorite color was Cherokee red...
This is one of the best videos I've seen concerning usable information. I am using a Dr. Feickert Volare with a Kiseki Purple Heart moving coil cartridge. I chose the Sutherland 20/20 phono stage with the optional separate power supply. I did not consider tubes because of maintenance. I couldn't be happier.
What if I already use a tube amp in my system? I am currently using a soundcraftsmen PE2217-R pre amp/eq. will i need a tube amp & pre amp for the turntable?
I was skeptical about buying any tube equipment. I figured it was just for people romancing the old vintage days but I took your advice and bought an inexpensive Aiyima tube phono amplifier just to hear what they sound like. I was amazed! It gave me the impression it fills in the gaps between instruments. With solid state or chips you hear for example separate cello and flute. With a tube, you hear the cello and flute playing next to each other. You begin to see solid state can actually sound sterile. I hear the difference and I am going to pursue it more. Sad though, I just bought a $500 Parasound phono amp and found I like the $70 Aiyima tube better. Oh well, more audio equipment for me. So sad.
try to compare blind? those are still op amp based / chips and seems unlikely they’d change things much compared to solid state. i’ve heard one and it is pretty fine but it’s just puzzling if the tubes are driven very hard.
The phono preamp reads changes in the cartridge’s magnetic potential inside the phono cartage, this is at an even lower level in some cartridges. For these, you may need a bit more adjustable circuitry to get a good reading. The phono preamp's job is to bring the cartridge's readings of its magnetic potential, up to the useable level of amplification for a standard RCA input. An integrated pre amp's job is to select and process one of the pre amp's standard RCA input signals, and be the master volume adjustment for the amp that it controls. When looking at the phono preamp's adjustments, look at the gain as current, and the volume as voltage.
Sweet! Now that I know that a phono amplifier is an amplifier and not a preamplifier. I can go out and get one so I can plug my speakers into it and get rid of my main amplifier. You just saved me so much space and money! Thank you :-)
Unfortunately my experience, and I’ve tried three costing £200 odd, you would need to spend a lot to notice any difference from a good integrated amp phono stage. Mine is Marantz PM6006 and killed Project, Cambridge and Zen units.
Question: In relation to TT and cartridge cost, How do you determine the price range of a phono stage that will improve sound as much as possible without being overkill for the other equipment? Why pay more than you can benefit from? I have a nice recently refurbished vintage wood base Dual CS 5000 turntable (late 80s) with an Ortofon Blue 3M Cart. My integrated amp is a HK 655vxi (late 80s also Neely refurbished/cleaned). Wharfedale 85th Anniversary Linton Speakers. Currently I’m using the built-in phono stage on the HK., A couple years ago I tried a Mofi phono stage (about $350) but sent it back because I was getting s bunch of noise and him. The sound I get with the built in phono in stage in the amp is decent for sure. Just curious if I could improve the sound with a separate phono stage but don’t want to spend more than I’ll benefit from.
The over-riding initial factor is your budget. That rules all. After that, as a rough guide, you see what sort of ball park your HiFi sits within. If it's a sub £1k system then your phono amp should be too, etc. But never under estimate the importance of a phono amp. I know some turntable designers who believe that it's of more sonic significance than the cartridge. External anything is better than included anything on a HiFi system, HiFi is anti social. This is why pre amps and power amps exist and why all amps are not integrated. Because separating the control and power sections in an amplifier improves sound. And that is one minor example.
@@TheAudiophileMan Thanks! I have about a 1k vintage TT (with a $239 Ortofon 2M Blue cart). A vintage integrated AMP $800. $1500 new speakers. So let’s say around $3300 total system for playing records. Currently using vintage HK integrated amp’s phono stage. What price range of Phono Stage would you recommend that would upgrade my sound noticeably? Is this the first place my next bunch of money should go? Is the phono stage more important than the cartridge/stylus? I realize I don’t have an audiophile level of equipment but could see myself spending several thousand more over the next 5 years. Trying to prioritize where I will hear the most improvement given it’s all important.
It is possible to buy a valve phono amp for less than £1000. World Designs produce seperate phono and power supply kits which are available for you to build or are ready built. You end up with a two box solution which costs a tad under £600 (diy) or £850 (pre built). The power supply will also power their pre amp if you decide to add this later.
Paul Rigby# If you are a Tube kinda guy as you say......Check out the LUXMAN EQ-500 ( A LOT OF KNOBS AND SWITCHES on the Front ( NO DIP SWITCHES AT ALL) for Gain, Impedance, Input Channel, etc,. 2 UV Meters, an internal but nice separated & shielded Tube Power Supply, a 6 Valves Phono Amp Section, Tube Cupling Caps from German Mundorf, high-class Takamishawa Caps all over the board, 4 shielded Input Transformers for MC High and MC Low; all that Amp Section in an extra shielding internal Copper box, separate 2 more Output Transformers, 3 Inputs (MC or MM is totally up to your choice ) Balanced XLR Output for a total stack of 6000,-€ in Mainland Europe. Expensive for sure, but fairly priced for what it will offer to you. Cheers
Hi. congratulations on the videos. (Brazilian in the area) with modest system: at-pl120 and denon 600ne (pma + dcd), Bookshelf Klipsch R-15m. in order to improve the sound and add an equalizer. which would indicate preamp phono ? and equalizer? Thanks in advance!
I have a Marantz NR1200. It has a built in phono stage so would I really see an improvement with an external one (Debut Carbon DC with a 2M blue stylus)
I have a pro-ject 2 xperience with a 2M blue that was originally connected to a marantz NR1710, though it had a phono stage i felt something was missing, it just didn't sound right. I purchased the pro-ject DS2 phono pre amp, loved it. I have now moved away from the marantz all together and purchased a 2 channel amplifier because I just wanted it purely for music. Best thing I ever did, everything obviously is personal preference though
I had the project black box in many years,since I bought the project 1,2. Upgraded to ortofon blue. Then I took a micro mega mygroove home . And……it was so much difference thar I bought it. Like the music was stamped into the soundstage instead of throwing it up with a hand full of gravel!! Everything got clear edges and black background. I think I be upgrade to mc after this,but I donno if the turntable is worth it?
I'm feeling lost here. Does he mean to say Phono Preamp? Or is a "Phono Amplifier " something totally different? I have a ART DJPREII phono preamplifier. Is that a Phono Amplifier?
Ultimately, it doesn't really matter, AC. I have my own preferences and I give those reasons in this video but really, there's more important things to consider than semantics.
@@TheAudiophileMan I was just asking if they are the same thing. I don't mean sound technical. I genuinely don't know the difference. Is the phono amplifier the same thing as a phono preamp? Interchangeable terms? Or is a phono amplifier something I need. I'm relatively new to this . Always looking for a better set up to make my Records sound great and not good. I currently have the pro-ject essential 3. With an ortofon OM 10 cartridge. An Art DJPre2 phono preamp. With Klipsch active references speakers. That's all I got. If the Phono Amplifier is something different than the Phono Preamp . Can you recommend a good one for me to add? I do plan on getting a Bottlehead kit in the future. And find some really good passive speakers. Please shoot me some advice if you have the time.
I have a technics su-v620 intergrated amp, an a technics SL- 3200 turntable my speakers are kef LS50 metas, i think my sound is excellent would i benefit from a phono amp an if so what would recommended thank you
Is there any particular advantage to getting a turntable manufacturer's brand of phono amp? I currently use a Rega P2 and my AVR's phono input. There are so many different choices that it's almost overwhelming. My brother, who teaches electrical engineering at a college thinks it wouldn't make any difference using a phono amp, sonically, than using the AVR's input.
No. And the phono amplifier is arguably more important than the cartridge so...I obviously hold different opinions :) An external model is - as I stated in the vid - superior because it lowers noise, thus increasing detail, etc. A builtin phono amp in a main amp is preferable to one in a turntable or powered speakers (because of vibration which transfers to microphony and thus noise, etc). Hope that helps.
@@TheAudiophileMan I had only recently discovered why I always had to crank up the volume when listening to records even though I had my Denon AVR set to increase the analog input by 12dB. The owner's manual said that the S/N ratio for the phono input was only 74dB while the one on the "standard" analog input (for a CD player) was 102 - a 28dB difference! Plus the distortion % and the frequency response for the phono input was inferior to the CD input by a substantial amount. Despite the fact there are no brand advantages, I ordered a Rega Fono MM Mk5 from a local dealer and will pick it up today, if it wasn't sold out from under me. I bet my vinyl will sound brand new after I install the new unit. I think I'll use "Hotel California" for my reference as to clarity, soundstage, etc. Besides, the Rega is $50 less than the Tube Box S2 I was considering. The demo deck at the store had a carbon cartridge and sounded impressive. My deck has an AT-VM540ML, which is what I had him put on when I bought the table as an upgrade...should sound even better :)
The Pro-Ject is very nice for the price point, sure. If you get the cash, also look at this one: theaudiophileman.com/p10-phono-amplifier-pure-sound-review/
My main amp is an old Sansui 1000x with an integrated phono in. This is connected to a Technics SL 2000. I'm wanting to purchase a separate phono Amp. My question is should it be an Amp or a preamp? And also... should I connect it to the phono in on the main after going through the phono amp?
The best option is to take the turntable, connect that to an external phono amp, then the phono runs to your main amp. This will offer superior performance to the built in model.
I use the Bellari VP549 phono preamp. It sounds better than the Schiit Mani and cost just a little more ($150). It has more clarity and punch when compared to the Mani. Well worth it.
Two I would recommend are: 1. Musical Surroundings Phonomena II+ - fairly budget (~$750) and handles both MM and MC easily. Solid performance at this price point and what I'd consider 'entry level' when first upgrading to a moving coil cartridge. 2. Modwright PH 9.0X - valves with a separate power supply. Options for balanced outputs. Really wonderful, but also moving into mid-range pricing at ~$4750
WHEST audio also makes some great phono amplifiers at around the same price point as the Modwright. If I remember correctly, those are all solid state, so is more in line with the 'solid state' sound.
I'm having some problems with this. I have a power amp that states 26gain. The pre amp i was considering says its unity gain only but the Inputs and outputs are fully buffered. I have very little understanding of all this but some have told me if I'm playing vinyl... unity gain on a preamp might be a problem. I have my turntable coming in about a month. Haven't bought my pre amp or phono amp yet. I was considering the lehman audio decade as the phono and Denafrip Athena as my pre.
@@TheAudiophileMan two things that are for sure coming. Technics 1210GR and Coda No.8 power amp. Cartridge isn't bought yet but have the NAGAOKA MP-200 in my head. Would be using the Technics headshell which is suppose up be 7.6g. I do have the lehamn audio decade as a phono pre. I've almost given up on the denaphrips athena as a pre. I just dont understand 0 unity gain enough...digital playback is no problem but vinyl seems a little complicated with that kind of pre amp. I was told if the phono pre puts out 2V...im good but i see nothing in the specs that tells me that it will. If there's a formula/a way to find out based on the info they provide...I don't know it :).
I haven't reviewed it so take these comments with a pinch of salt. Colleagues tell me they like it, low high-frequency noise so lots of clarity. Sounds a little cool tonally though. But like some Cambridge stuff.
''Tinny, tiny screeching noises coming from the grooves''. Thank you, I didn't know if that was normal or not. I heard that tinny sound of the record when I'm very close to the turntable. I did wonder if it was normal to hear that.
No you don't BUT if you go to the section in this video around the 9 minute mark he explains more about this. I have a phono stage in my amplifier but I chose to buy a seperated phono stage of better quality.
My phono amp connected to my thorens td105 mk2 with a ortofon vms 20e mk2 MI cartridge to my pioneer receiver does not work. Absolutely no sound what soever. Weird stuff. The pre amp is MM so that should work
Good day Audiophile Man. I have an AT lp120x and Klipsch The Fives. If I want to run the Pro-ject MM, or another, do I set my TT switch to phono and the Klipsch The Fives switch to phono or line? 3+ years late. Thank you for the informative video.
I came across a rare Tubebox SE2 for a reasonable price a year ago. I struggled with the sound with my Rega and was going to sell it until I thought I'd spend a little more and change the valves, just in case. Wow! It made a huge difference. I can see me keeping it for a good while now. Maybe try some fancier valves if I get bored!
I purchased a Cambridge audio Alva solo for my at-120lpx and was underwhelmed, then looking at this swapped it for the pro-ject phono box MM and the improvement was much more noticeable for less money? Now do I go for a Goldring e3 ? However I understand that it’s exactly the same as the at-vmn95en, ?
What would you suggest for a rough price ratio of phono stage to TT&cartridge? The one data point I have is SoundSmith Zephyr MIMC* cartridge ($2K) and the SoundSmith MCP2 II phono stage designed for that cartridge for $1.2K. And if we assume that this sort of cartridge is used on a table about costing at least as much as the cartridge, then we are looking at $4-6K for TT set up (I have it on a VPI super prime scout) and phono stage of ~$1.5K so a ~1:2-3 ratio. Does that sound about right? On sub $1K MC phono stages, one should check carefully that cartridge output (mV) and PS gain (dB) match. I was burned by buying a Vincent PHO701 (60 dB, not adjustable) with the Zephyr (0.4 mV), and that was too low a gain. That phono stage also picks up radio station; maybe a grounding problem of TT arm, but not sure how to fix that. Will upgrade the PS anyway, so not worried about it. I am currently looking at phono stages and have not heard of any of the brands you indicated (except the Pro-ject box). A bit surprising. I am most likely going for a 12AX7 tubed EAT E-glow petite ($1.5K) with an upgraded power supply, maybe upgraded tubes. The other one I considered was the solid state SoundSmith MCP2 II, but was advised it was too clinical, something you also note for solid state PS. Both get very good reviews. Unfortunately, there is no way of listening to any with current Covid situation.
@@jakemurphy9536 Thanks for feedback and confirmation! looked at the midrange PS recommended in video. Goldnote was possibly the most interesting, but it is solid state and according to reviews & BB discussions the optional tubed power supply is not making much of a difference.
Hi, I have just re started my vinyl love affair, after a near 20 year absence, I have begun with the Pro-ject A1 auto turntable, using the built in phono stage, would I benefit from using the pro-ject seperate phone , will I hear a difference? I have a small budget of up to £200, Currently using an Arcam A90 amp, Q Acoustic Q40s floorstanders with bi wire rocket22 cable. Just to throw in to the mix, I am seriously saving to upgrade the turntable to the debut pro later in the year, so would like a phono stage that may also do justice to this, I know, I dont ask much!! thanking you in anticipation, Andy T.
Interesting. I haven't heard the 252's built-in model but I am always promoting the virtues of an external design so if you hear an improvement then run with it.
I've just bought the Pro Ject Debut Carbon DC and Connected it to my Denon AVR (Which I thought had a built in Phono Amp but it does not). Any suggestions for a phono amp to go with the Ortofon 2m Red Cartridge? Preferably below $200?
I have a McIntosh MA5200 integrated amp (cost: $4500 new). It has an onboard photo preamp. Would I still get some improvement by buying a separate? How much would I have to spend to get that improvement?
Greetings ! I have one specific ask, I own an highly modified Thorens TD160 with a Nagaoka MP-110 Cartridge, plugged into an Accuphase E-305, the phono stage of this amp is brilliant, but one problem, the output level, if I compare some listening of the same albums on my Studio Converter or my CD Player, I have, nearly half of lower output level (Like I litteraly bring the level up by half), so I'm looking for a phono stage, at least as good as the ones on Accuphase amps, and with a much higher output level (MP-110 is given to have a 5mV output), so, if you have any advices for this demand, i'm a taker ! And please, no Tubes/Valves solutions. Thanks !
I just watched it at 2x speed… didn’t mind the loquaciousness so much as the pace, I experience some attention challenges but the playback speed change helped a lot. Great video - thank you!
Hi there my Friend. I went to the local store and I have found Audio technica lp120 with builded preamp. The price is about 430 euros. They have all so Project phono box. It's external preamp. It cost about 100 dollars. The seller is not a knowledgeable person. Please does At lp120 work better with external preamp? The sound quality and the signal.? Or the builded preamp gives the same signal? I am a little suspicion about this builded preamp after your video. Thank you man
Thumbs up to dipswitches where there is a one time(ish) adjustment. Use a flathead precision screwdriver - you'll find about 13 of them in the man-drawer. Some great 'chi-fi' psu upgrades.....double check as some are AC - AC.
Really informative Paul, thanks it definitely has got me thinking. The price rises and it's "Oh, that one..." I am so useless at saving money, could I justify saving for a Phono Stage? I'll try but £19K has no hope. Great video.
Hi Paul, I have only discovered your excellent channel very recently. I would very much appreciate your advice. I run a Lenco GL75 turntable with Linn separates- pre-amp and power amp. I've modified the GL75 with PTFE V blocks in the original tone arm, and the G800 cartridge is modified with a Ruby cantilever and Fritz Geiger diamond tip. It's mounted in a nice plinth to finish it off. The performance is superb- audiophile quality playback. I'm looking at investing in a dedicated phono stage, currently, the Linn pre-amp is running the deck through it's inbuilt phone. I believe that further improvements can be made with a dedicated phono stage. I'm considering a Michael Fidler MM PRO phono, or a Vertere phono stage. Which one would you recommend based on your extensive knowledge base? If it was your set up, what would you opt for Paul? Many thanks! :)
Do any of the have dual outputs so I can play out to my stereo receiver for listening but have a second XLR to a mic preamp for recording? Do the output the signal simultaneously?
Funny as it may be, Moving Coil cartridges are not more advanced technology. They are the same technology as moving magnet. There is still a magnet and coil that move in relation to each other. The reason Moving Coil can be preferred is because there is that slightly less weight on the stylus support and can allow the stylus to follow the groove with more accuracy. The external phono pre-amp is good if you are initially on a budget. You can grab the cheaper one, then upgrade when you have the cash where an all in one integrated system is difficult to upgrade just one part.
I own the Tavish Design the Classic and replaced the JJ tubes with vintage Tungscram and GE tubes, sounds great. I use a Jensen MC-2RR SUT to step up the voltage from my Hana EL mc, then into the mm section of the Tavish the Classic.
Hello Paul! Do you (or anybody here) know the Vincent PHO 300/500/701? I'm thinking about adding one of those to my sound system: Toshiba SR-F200 (from 1979) with Ortofon 2m Silver cartridge (MM) + Sony STRDH190 + JBL Stage A130. Any thoughts? Would they match this setup and indeed enhance the sound?
Hi, great video, both informative and entertaining. My question, has anyone experienced the Vincent PHO-300? It seems great value for the money. Thanks!
Thanks for the info... I have an old Technics integrated Amp. I am looking at buying a used Marantz amp to play my records. Should I still look into buying a phono amp to use with the Marantz. I get some noise with my Technics Amp today, but the noise is coming from my equalizer. But if I turn off the EQ the sound is very flat. What do you suggest?
My advice is to remove the equaliser completely. It adds nothing to sound quality. In fact it removes it. Next? It depends on the amp model you're going for - what's your budget?
@@TheAudiophileMan Thank you for your response. I was looking at Marantz sr4320, but I saw on some reviews that the built in phono pre-amp is noisy. But regarding my budget I was looking at around $300 for a used Marantz.
@@TheAudiophileMan The Amp I currently have is a Technics SU-G95. What do you think is a good upgrade to this. Again, I'm on a budget so looking a used amps
Hello Audiophile Man and commenters :) I am new to the hifi game and I would love some advice: I was given an old Thorens TD 170 turntable, which I found out are not the worst-worst but nothing too fancy, either. It has a Ortofon DM 10 cartridge, of which I don't know if it's the stanard it comes with or whatever. I also have a LOT of vinyl. I buy it mainly because I like to support the (mostly smaller) bands I buy it from and also because I like the extra artwork etc. I do not have any nice setup to speak of, tho, to listen to them. Since I am a beginner like I said, and I am also not SUPER demanding when it comes to sound quality haha, but I am a musician and I still would like to be able to listen to my vinyl in a decent fashion (and also to not look like a complete savage in front of some of my more audiophile friends) I would like to get started with my setup. Since I would like to also use my speakers with my tv and I lack the cash to get both a sound bar for that purpose AND a hifi setup, I've been looking at the Nubert nuPro SP-200 speakers. Those are ACTIVE, however. Could you guys maybe recommend me a decent pre-amp (or phono amp?! Which one is it with active speakers?? :D ) which I can use to put in between my turntable and my possibly future active speakers? Thank you very much and a happy new year everyone! :)
I didn’t realise that I could get a phono amp for under £70, as my budget is tiny I think I will try one. I want to use my second turntable with my main amp so I presume that I can use the Project through my aux input.
@@TheAudiophileMan thank you for your information. I am using an old Technics integrated amp at the moment while I get my Heybrook pre amp repaired but it would be nice to run a second turntable. My original Pink Triangle turntable has been sat in the shed for more than 20 years as it started to sound slow and my local hifi shop Moorgate Acoustics could not put it right but I have found a company online who can give it a full service and provide an improved power supply. It would be nice to get it going once more as back in the 1980’s I preferred it to the Linn Sondek LP12.
How do you deal with playing mono records? I notice some phono amps have a mono switch so does this negate the need for a mono cartridge or do you need both or is there a different solution? Cheers.
If you flick a mono switch then that merges the signal and you can get away with using a stereo cartridge to play those records. They will not sound as good as a dedicated mono cart, though, which is far superior. More than that, a mono cart built from the ground up to be nothing but mono is even better than those mono carts which are actually rebuilt stereo models.
@@TheAudiophileMan Many thanks for the quick reply. My integrated amp doesn't have a mono option. Is there some sort of device which can overcome this? Cheers.
A quick and dirty option would be a splitter cable. Take a single channel from your phono amp and then stereo at the other end - the end that connects to the amp. Then your mono signal will be output to both speakers.
Hello Paul, I do apologize if this comment is lengthy but I have some questions. I am new to the Hi-Fi world and I am looking at getting the Audio-Technica LP120X turntable, I'm also looking at getting the Yamaha R- N303 Stereo Receiver which has a phono input. I Chose these options because of budgeting purposes and I feel like these options would give me the best sound for the money. My question is if I go with these options do I need a Phono Amplifier? Can I even hook all of that up together? Would it sound better if I had a Phono Amplifier? I am just not sure. I watched your video on the turntable and I have subscribed to your channel. Very good information and I look forward to watching more of your videos. Again I apologize for the lengthy comment have a good one Paul great videos!!
Thanks Eric - you can use the turntable's internal phono amplifier if you wish and that will get you by but an external model is superior in sound terms. The Pro-Ject MM Phono (£69) is ideal. You'll need a pair of phono cables too. Look at QED and get the best you can afford (Amazon).
I like dip switches much harder for someone to change. I have the original moon 110 lp and a specially made power supply made in Hong Kong to replace the wall wart.
Good advice, but, there are plenty of amps out there that have a phono stage - my Rotel for example. Implying that no amplifiers can handle a direct connection from a turntable is not correct and could be confusing, or even possibly cause people to spend money they don't need to
I am using an mxvinyl phonostage with a mcru power supply on my michell orb se turntable with an ortofon quintet black s cartridge and the sound is amazing the mxvinyl is a great phono amp and being small it takes up less space on the rack .
Any thoughts about the Vincent phono preamps? I'm looking for a preamp to use with my Audiolab 6000a, interested on the Vincent Pho 300 (formerly Pho 800) and Vincent 701. All the best from Chile
I’ve reviewed their integrated amps but not their phonos. I do like their general designs, though so I would imagine that their phono amps would work well.
Hi Paul. I have been using the Western Electric Mini Max phono stage for some time now. It is connected to an Audiolab preamplifier which sends the signal to a Rotel Power amp. Very happy with the sound.
I have an essentials 3, plugged on the Pro-ject box mm and the sound is great to me. So the question is.. how noticeable (for a newbie) is the difference in the sound quality from the Box MM to a Pure sound for example? Speakers are some cheap edifiers.
Paul, reminder that often, there are at least two more amplification stages after the phono stage; the preampfification stage, either built-in in an integrated amp or as a stand alone separate, and the power amplification driving the speakers.
Great Video. Quick question what would you recommend for a Ruark R7 which has a built in a phono stage already? also would it make sense to plug my phono amplifier into the phono stage or aux, line in sockets?
This is very informative. I'm thinking of getting either a Rega Aria or a Pro-ject RS2. At present I have a Rega Elex-r amplifier and a Pro-ject 2xperience sb dc turntable with an ortofon 2m black cartridge. Has anyone compared similar rega and pro-ject phono stages?
HELP ME UPGRADE MY SETUP! Over the last year I've really enjoyed diving into vinyl listening and have taken bits from my main HT setup and created a second setup solely for vinyl. Details below Current Setup: Denon X2000 (receiver) | Audio-Technica LP120XUSB (VM95E Cartridge & Built in Phono Preamp) | JBL Studio 590 (Speakers). I'm interested in making a few wise investments that will take the listening experience, detail, fidelity, etc. to the next level. A few thoughts I had were maybe upgrading to an integrated amplifier (IE Cambridge CXA81), upgrading to an external phono preamp (IE Cambridge Duo, Rega MK5), or upgrading the cartridge (IE Grado Timbre Platinum3). Any thoughts on what would make the biggest difference? A combination of them? Not sure if going from the Denon to the CXA81 would make a difference (other than just power output), or between the Preamp/Cartidge what would make a bigger impact. I could essentially pick 2 of 3 components. Thanks for any advice and feedback! @The Audiophile Man
Generally? I would work from the source downwards. Upgrade the turntable, then the cart if that's an obvious bottleneck, grab an external phono amp, then the amp, then speakers. In between, improve your ancillaries: isolation, shelving, cabling, etc.
Great video again Paul! I have gone the classic route at reasonable cost. I use the musical fidelity XLPS with the separate XPSU power supply. I use a gold ring moving iron cartridge too. Although the cost is modest the quality is high for MM but has a limited number of setting for MC users. On a personal level I am very happy with what I have. If I had unlimited funds I would stretch to an Avid pulses phono stage but at present my budget will not allow that lol.
The phono circuit inside a mixer *is* a phono amplifier. Just not a very good one. A mixer is not aimed solely at analogue vinyl play. It's a DJ tool and is packed with a host of features for the same. The build budget for a mixer prioritises DJ tools and DJ-related facilities. The quality of the phono amp in there is pushed way down the list. As long as it does the job, that's all you can ask from a mixer's phono amp. If pure sound quality is your only priority then that causes issues. The more features you stuff inside mixer chassis, the more high-frequency noise and vibration is present from associated components (all of which veil delicate detail to the phono section), the cramped space in there doesn't help either. So isolation is none existent. Also, if you're looking at a £500 mixer say, just how much cash do you think has been devoted to the phono amp? Not a lot :) So parts quality comes into question. I could go on but I've rambled on enough. Hope that helps.
Thank you! There is shockingly little content on TH-cam (or anywhere really) about phono preamps. It's like most HiFi reviewers have forgotten that phono preamps exist - a strange oversight given the current revival of vinyl records. I'm looking for an endgame phonostage, leaning towards PS Audio Stellar Phono, but it's hard to understand how its performance stacks up against other options with similar specs like the Hegel V10, Gold Note PH10, or Pass XP-15.
I'm brand new to this so please excuse my ignorance. But you mention a "main amplifier" multiple times in the video. Are you referring to the speaker system you're going to be using? My understanding is it goes Turntable > Phono Amp > Speaker System. Is that correct? I got a really cheap turntable with built in speakers for Christmas a few years ago and started collecting a lot of vinyl but I barely played any of them because I know my turntable will just damage them, there's not even a counter weight on the arm. I'm looking to get a new turntable and all the necessary equipment to have a proper system. This video was quite insightful but I couldn't follow everything because I am brand new to this. Also if anyone has any recommendations I'll gladly listen. I'm looking to spend about €500 max on everything to start out. I can always upgrade a bit more then as I go.
For a turntable system, you're looking at Turntable - Phono amp - Amplifier - Speakers. Pus a few cables. There's a few wrinkles here. Firstly, the phono amplifier can be fitted within the turntable itself and/or the amplifier or even the speakers. Soundwise, it's best separated on its own but fitted inside something else can reduce footprint and cost. If you can save slightly more you could buy a Pro-Ject Primary turntable, Cambridge AXA35 (with built in phono amp) and Q Acoustic 3020 speakers (not the 'i' model, the older model) for around £600 (you'd need to look local for a € price. Otherwise, there is another, cheaper route, going from a turntable with built in phono amp to powered speakers direct (i.e. speakers with the amp built in). That would be within budget. If you'd rather go that route, give me a shout.
@@TheAudiophileMan hi thanks so much for such a comprehensive reply with recommendations, that's really nice of you. I can definitely understand how the amp is very important to get good sound. But the axa35 is about 100 more than the turntable itself, is that normal? I would figure about half the budget should go into the turntable itself no? Of course you'd know better but I'm only wondering. I think I'll have to bring my budget up to about 800 euro which is around 600ish pounds to try get everything but that's fine. Can I ask though, will this be worth the price? If I'm going to be using an interior phono amp and such will the music sound pretty good? I can understand obviously a turntable set up costing over 1000 will obviously sound better. But will this at least sound better than using my crappy turntable or using spotify on a speaker system? For the record my old turntable is a Bush CTT5 which I don't use considering it can damage my records. If I'd get a significant improvement I don't mind saving up a bit more or upgrading this set up you're recommending later.
@@TheAudiophileMan Hi sorry to bother you but I am now close to making a purchase and I wonder if you could advise me before hand. First off when you said the Primary turntable, I couldn't find an exact turntable with that name but I presume you mean the Primary E? What do you think of the AT 120XUSB? A lot of people seem to be recommending that and it seems to be a good price and comes with a built in Phono Amp that I can swap to a dedicated one later on. I think I'll have to upgrade my budget to about €800-900 which is close to like £650-700 to get something worth while. I'd really appreciate it if you could lend me your informed opinion on the matter because while I've read a lot these last two weeks on the matter, I'm still not going to know what's best. Thanks.
Thanks for this great video. A question, what if the integrated amp isnt a budget model but has a phono stage, such as the Naim Supernait 3? I have the Rega Fono Mk 3 that I used with old amp that didnt have a phono stage on board. Would the phono stage in the Supernait 3 trump the Rega Fono Mk 3 phono amp? Turntable is a Clearaudio Concept.Thanks
Phono amp can really make or break an analogue chain! Well covered, Paul.
In a two box system, the power box is not an amplifier, it's a discrete mains transformer and smoothing circuit, supplying clean, low voltage DC to the phono stage. In cheap phono stages this is often done in a nasty switch mode power supply mounted on the back of the plug, sometimes known as a wall wart. An easy upgrade to these boxes is to replace them with a linear power supply of the correct specification.
All power is not created equal. Dirty power destroys filter circuits like capacitors. With clean power, equipment last longer and runs better. Its not just for phono pre amps. A good line filter (smoothing circuit) is an investment, it is a lot cheaper than replacing a theater amp. That being said, the wall warts electronically, are not that bad. Billons have been sold, and used by billons of happy customers. A "better" of this type is often not audibly noticeable. A good 110v line filter is a better investment.
You should have put an "intermission" in the middle of this like they used to do in old movies that were three hours long.
After all this time, i found it, the man who will finally teach me what i need to know, in a clear and simple way, so i enjoy creating my dream set-up ! Thanks !
A few years ago I met the founder of Aesthetix (Jim White) at Audio Connection, Verona, New Jersey. He is a humble and gracious gentleman. We had the pleasure to sit down with John Rutan, owner of Audio Connection, and listen to the Aesthetix lo Eclipse phono stage along with the monoblock amplifiers and preamplifier, also from Aesthetix fed to a pair of Vandersteen Model 7 speakers in Cherokee red. All of this was hooked up to an AMG Viella turntable. The sound was glorious, solid, effortless, and pristine. I, being an architect, made a comment to Jim White, prior to listening to the system, that Frank Lloyd Wright's favorite color was Cherokee red...
You're a lucky man to hear such a system. I use an Aesthetix Calypso pre amp as part of my top end reference system. I love his work.
Have an external AND a built in phono stage, you can run 2 turntables on an integrated amplifier, without using a 2nd pair of main sockets.
This is one of the best videos I've seen concerning usable information. I am using a Dr. Feickert Volare with a Kiseki Purple Heart moving coil cartridge. I chose the Sutherland 20/20 phono stage with the optional separate power supply. I did not consider tubes because of maintenance. I couldn't be happier.
What if I already use a tube amp in my system? I am currently using a soundcraftsmen PE2217-R pre amp/eq. will i need a tube amp & pre amp for the turntable?
I was skeptical about buying any tube equipment. I figured it was just for people romancing the old vintage days but I took your advice and bought an inexpensive Aiyima tube phono amplifier just to hear what they sound like. I was amazed! It gave me the impression it fills in the gaps between instruments. With solid state or chips you hear for example separate cello and flute. With a tube, you hear the cello and flute playing next to each other. You begin to see solid state can actually sound sterile. I hear the difference and I am going to pursue it more. Sad though, I just bought a $500 Parasound phono amp and found I like the $70 Aiyima tube better. Oh well, more audio equipment for me. So sad.
Hi. What aiyma was that ?
try to compare blind? those are still op amp based / chips and seems unlikely they’d change things much compared to solid state. i’ve heard one and it is pretty fine but it’s just puzzling if the tubes are driven very hard.
The phono preamp reads changes in the cartridge’s magnetic potential inside the phono cartage, this is at an even lower level in some cartridges. For these, you may need a bit more adjustable circuitry to get a good reading. The phono preamp's job is to bring the cartridge's readings of its magnetic potential, up to the useable level of amplification for a standard RCA input. An integrated pre amp's job is to select and process one of the pre amp's standard RCA input signals, and be the master volume adjustment for the amp that it controls. When looking at the phono preamp's adjustments, look at the gain as current, and the volume as voltage.
Sweet! Now that I know that a phono amplifier is an amplifier and not a preamplifier. I can go out and get one so I can plug my speakers into it and get rid of my main amplifier. You just saved me so much space and money! Thank you :-)
Unfortunately my experience, and I’ve tried three costing £200 odd, you would need to spend a lot to notice any difference from a good integrated amp phono stage. Mine is Marantz PM6006 and killed Project, Cambridge and Zen units.
how does someone get into hifi and not understand what the phono amp does (and how important it is)? i know it is possible, but just seems improbable.
Question: In relation to TT and cartridge cost, How do you determine the price range of a phono stage that will improve sound as much as possible without being overkill for the other equipment? Why pay more than you can benefit from?
I have a nice recently refurbished vintage wood base Dual CS 5000 turntable (late 80s) with an Ortofon Blue 3M Cart. My integrated amp is a HK 655vxi (late 80s also Neely refurbished/cleaned). Wharfedale 85th Anniversary Linton Speakers.
Currently I’m using the built-in phono stage on the HK., A couple years ago I tried a Mofi phono stage (about $350) but sent it back because I was getting s bunch of noise and him. The sound I get with the built in phono in stage in the amp is decent for sure. Just curious if I could improve the sound with a separate phono stage but don’t want to spend more than I’ll benefit from.
The over-riding initial factor is your budget. That rules all. After that, as a rough guide, you see what sort of ball park your HiFi sits within. If it's a sub £1k system then your phono amp should be too, etc. But never under estimate the importance of a phono amp. I know some turntable designers who believe that it's of more sonic significance than the cartridge. External anything is better than included anything on a HiFi system, HiFi is anti social. This is why pre amps and power amps exist and why all amps are not integrated. Because separating the control and power sections in an amplifier improves sound. And that is one minor example.
@@TheAudiophileMan Thanks! I have about a 1k vintage TT (with a $239 Ortofon 2M Blue cart). A vintage integrated AMP $800. $1500 new speakers. So let’s say around $3300 total system for playing records. Currently using vintage HK integrated amp’s phono stage. What price range of Phono Stage would you recommend that would upgrade my sound noticeably? Is this the first place my next bunch of money should go? Is the phono stage more important than the cartridge/stylus? I realize I don’t have an audiophile level of equipment but could see myself spending several thousand more over the next 5 years. Trying to prioritize where I will hear the most improvement given it’s all important.
It is possible to buy a valve phono amp for less than £1000. World Designs produce seperate phono and power supply kits which are available for you to build or are ready built. You end up with a two box solution which costs a tad under £600 (diy) or £850 (pre built). The power supply will also power their pre amp if you decide to add this later.
Paul Rigby# If you are a Tube kinda guy as you say......Check out the LUXMAN EQ-500 ( A LOT OF KNOBS AND SWITCHES on the Front ( NO DIP SWITCHES AT ALL) for Gain, Impedance, Input Channel, etc,. 2 UV Meters, an internal but nice separated & shielded Tube Power Supply, a 6 Valves Phono Amp Section, Tube Cupling Caps from German Mundorf, high-class Takamishawa Caps all over the board, 4 shielded Input Transformers for MC High and MC Low; all that Amp Section in an extra shielding internal Copper box, separate 2 more Output Transformers, 3 Inputs (MC or MM is totally up to your choice ) Balanced XLR Output for a total stack of 6000,-€ in Mainland Europe. Expensive for sure, but fairly priced for what it will offer to you.
Cheers
I would add, having owned one, roll in some nice NOS tubes The BAT VK10 or 12 is the next upgrade from the EQ500
Hi I'm torn between gold note ph5, pure sound p10 and hegel. I have rega planar 8 with ortofon 2m black...can I ask for your opinion please...Mark
All three are excellent. All three won't disappoint I'm sure. Id probably lean towards the Pure box though. Just.
@@TheAudiophileMan Thanks for replying...I really like your channel
Got myself a p10 now….wow….many thanks
Hi. congratulations on the videos. (Brazilian in the area) with modest system: at-pl120 and denon 600ne (pma + dcd), Bookshelf Klipsch R-15m. in order to improve the sound and add an equalizer. which would indicate preamp phono ? and equalizer? Thanks in advance!
Can you please tell me how I can connect a modern turntable to my 1967 Magnavox Console system?
I have a Marantz NR1200. It has a built in phono stage so would I really see an improvement with an external one (Debut Carbon DC with a 2M blue stylus)
I have a pro-ject 2 xperience with a 2M blue that was originally connected to a marantz NR1710, though it had a phono stage i felt something was missing, it just didn't sound right. I purchased the pro-ject DS2 phono pre amp, loved it. I have now moved away from the marantz all together and purchased a 2 channel amplifier because I just wanted it purely for music. Best thing I ever did, everything obviously is personal preference though
I had the project black box in many years,since I bought the project 1,2. Upgraded to ortofon blue. Then I took a micro mega mygroove home . And……it was so much difference thar I bought it. Like the music was stamped into the soundstage instead of throwing it up with a hand full of gravel!! Everything got clear edges and black background. I think I be upgrade to mc after this,but I donno if the turntable is worth it?
I'm feeling lost here. Does he mean to say Phono Preamp? Or is a "Phono Amplifier " something totally different?
I have a ART DJPREII phono preamplifier. Is that a Phono Amplifier?
Ultimately, it doesn't really matter, AC. I have my own preferences and I give those reasons in this video but really, there's more important things to consider than semantics.
@@TheAudiophileMan I was just asking if they are the same thing. I don't mean sound technical. I genuinely don't know the difference. Is the phono amplifier the same thing as a phono preamp? Interchangeable terms? Or is a phono amplifier something I need. I'm relatively new to this . Always looking for a better set up to make my Records sound great and not good. I currently have the pro-ject essential 3. With an ortofon OM 10 cartridge. An Art DJPre2 phono preamp. With Klipsch active references speakers. That's all I got. If the Phono Amplifier is something different than the Phono Preamp . Can you recommend a good one for me to add? I do plan on getting a Bottlehead kit in the future. And find some really good passive speakers. Please shoot me some advice if you have the time.
Can you help lhave this small ols arkay upgrade all caps sound good and l have the fx 03 sino buffer how can l connect to the integrade amp
I have a technics su-v620 intergrated amp, an a technics SL- 3200 turntable my speakers are kef LS50 metas, i think my sound is excellent would i benefit from a phono amp an if so what would recommended thank you
Is there any particular advantage to getting a turntable manufacturer's brand of phono amp? I currently use a Rega P2 and my AVR's phono input. There are so many different choices that it's almost overwhelming. My brother, who teaches electrical engineering at a college thinks it wouldn't make any difference using a phono amp, sonically, than using the AVR's input.
No. And the phono amplifier is arguably more important than the cartridge so...I obviously hold different opinions :) An external model is - as I stated in the vid - superior because it lowers noise, thus increasing detail, etc. A builtin phono amp in a main amp is preferable to one in a turntable or powered speakers (because of vibration which transfers to microphony and thus noise, etc). Hope that helps.
@@TheAudiophileMan I had only recently discovered why I always had to crank up the volume when listening to records even though I had my Denon AVR set to increase the analog input by 12dB. The owner's manual said that the S/N ratio for the phono input was only 74dB while the one on the "standard" analog input (for a CD player) was 102 - a 28dB difference! Plus the distortion % and the frequency response for the phono input was inferior to the CD input by a substantial amount. Despite the fact there are no brand advantages, I ordered a Rega Fono MM Mk5 from a local dealer and will pick it up today, if it wasn't sold out from under me. I bet my vinyl will sound brand new after I install the new unit. I think I'll use "Hotel California" for my reference as to clarity, soundstage, etc. Besides, the Rega is $50 less than the Tube Box S2 I was considering. The demo deck at the store had a carbon cartridge and sounded impressive. My deck has an AT-VM540ML, which is what I had him put on when I bought the table as an upgrade...should sound even better :)
Do budget valve phono amps make the most of their valves? Eg: the Project Tube Box S2? I'd love an affordable 'valve sounding' phono amp.
The Pro-Ject is very nice for the price point, sure. If you get the cash, also look at this one: theaudiophileman.com/p10-phono-amplifier-pure-sound-review/
My main amp is an old Sansui 1000x with an integrated phono in. This is connected to a Technics SL 2000. I'm wanting to purchase a separate phono Amp. My question is should it be an Amp or a preamp? And also... should I connect it to the phono in on the main after going through the phono amp?
The best option is to take the turntable, connect that to an external phono amp, then the phono runs to your main amp. This will offer superior performance to the built in model.
Good video, thank you. But you didn't mention the RIAA correction which is an essential characteristic for a phono amp.
I use the Bellari VP549 phono preamp. It sounds better than the Schiit Mani and cost just a little more ($150). It has more clarity and punch when compared to the Mani. Well worth it.
I have both of these too and completely agree.
Two I would recommend are:
1. Musical Surroundings Phonomena II+ - fairly budget (~$750) and handles both MM and MC easily. Solid performance at this price point and what I'd consider 'entry level' when first upgrading to a moving coil cartridge.
2. Modwright PH 9.0X - valves with a separate power supply. Options for balanced outputs. Really wonderful, but also moving into mid-range pricing at ~$4750
WHEST audio also makes some great phono amplifiers at around the same price point as the Modwright. If I remember correctly, those are all solid state, so is more in line with the 'solid state' sound.
s the phono -amp on my Yamaha AS2200 integrated cant handle this part? It has settings for MC and MM cartridges
I'm having some problems with this. I have a power amp that states 26gain. The pre amp i was considering says its unity gain only but the Inputs and outputs are fully buffered. I have very little understanding of all this but some have told me if I'm playing vinyl... unity gain on a preamp might be a problem. I have my turntable coming in about a month. Haven't bought my pre amp or phono amp yet. I was considering the lehman audio decade as the phono and Denafrip Athena as my pre.
Can you list your hifi chain please?
@@TheAudiophileMan two things that are for sure coming. Technics 1210GR and Coda No.8 power amp. Cartridge isn't bought yet but have the NAGAOKA MP-200 in my head. Would be using the Technics headshell which is suppose up be 7.6g. I do have the lehamn audio decade as a phono pre. I've almost given up on the denaphrips athena as a pre. I just dont understand 0 unity gain enough...digital playback is no problem but vinyl seems a little complicated with that kind of pre amp. I was told if the phono pre puts out 2V...im good but i see nothing in the specs that tells me that it will. If there's a formula/a way to find out based on the info they provide...I don't know it :).
I would greatly appreciate your opinion on the Primare R15
I haven't reviewed it so take these comments with a pinch of salt. Colleagues tell me they like it, low high-frequency noise so lots of clarity. Sounds a little cool tonally though. But like some Cambridge stuff.
''Tinny, tiny screeching noises coming from the grooves''. Thank you, I didn't know if that was normal or not. I heard that tinny sound of the record when I'm very close to the turntable. I did wonder if it was normal to hear that.
Hi.. have you ever review rega phono amp ? Like aria mk 3 or aura.. and what about phono amp from vertere ?
Hi
I have a Yamaha RX497 with Phono input do i still need a preamplifier for my turntable!?
No you don't BUT if you go to the section in this video around the 9 minute mark he explains more about this. I have a phono stage in my amplifier but I chose to buy a seperated phono stage of better quality.
My phono amp connected to my thorens td105 mk2 with a ortofon vms 20e mk2 MI cartridge to my pioneer receiver does not work. Absolutely no sound what soever. Weird stuff.
The pre amp is MM so that should work
Good day Audiophile Man. I have an AT lp120x and Klipsch The Fives. If I want to run the Pro-ject MM, or another, do I set my TT switch to phono and the Klipsch The Fives switch to phono or line? 3+ years late. Thank you for the informative video.
Pro ject tube box in my system on my Rega 3. I've had this phono stage for quite a while now. Wondering if the valves might need changing now!
I came across a rare Tubebox SE2 for a reasonable price a year ago. I struggled with the sound with my Rega and was going to sell it until I thought I'd spend a little more and change the valves, just in case. Wow! It made a huge difference. I can see me keeping it for a good while now. Maybe try some fancier valves if I get bored!
@@rufiorules just ordered some new valves.Seeif the sound changes
the Rotel A10 is also A good choice too .
Thank you for this video. May I Know which phono-amp pairs well with Audio Technica AT-LPW40WN? Cheers!
I'm currently playing it direct to Klipsch r-51pm speakers.
congrats for "Gone to Earth" on your background! my fav artist!
Was about to comment the same, you did it for me.
I purchased a Cambridge audio Alva solo for my at-120lpx and was underwhelmed, then looking at this swapped it for the pro-ject phono box MM and the improvement was much more noticeable for less money? Now do I go for a Goldring e3 ? However I understand that it’s exactly the same as the at-vmn95en, ?
The E3 is superior to the VM95e. I highly recommend it.
What would you suggest for a rough price ratio of phono stage to TT&cartridge? The one data point I have is SoundSmith Zephyr MIMC* cartridge ($2K) and the SoundSmith MCP2 II phono stage designed for that cartridge for $1.2K. And if we assume that this sort of cartridge is used on a table about costing at least as much as the cartridge, then we are looking at $4-6K for TT set up (I have it on a VPI super prime scout) and phono stage of ~$1.5K so a ~1:2-3 ratio. Does that sound about right?
On sub $1K MC phono stages, one should check carefully that cartridge output (mV) and PS gain (dB) match. I was burned by buying a Vincent PHO701 (60 dB, not adjustable) with the Zephyr (0.4 mV), and that was too low a gain. That phono stage also picks up radio station; maybe a grounding problem of TT arm, but not sure how to fix that. Will upgrade the PS anyway, so not worried about it.
I am currently looking at phono stages and have not heard of any of the brands you indicated (except the Pro-ject box). A bit surprising. I am most likely going for a 12AX7 tubed EAT E-glow petite ($1.5K) with an upgraded power supply, maybe upgraded tubes. The other one I considered was the solid state SoundSmith MCP2 II, but was advised it was too clinical, something you also note for solid state PS. Both get very good reviews. Unfortunately, there is no way of listening to any with current Covid situation.
I don't think that you will be disappointed with the E. A. T phono stage. It's very good.
@@jakemurphy9536 Thanks for feedback and confirmation! looked at the midrange PS recommended in video. Goldnote was possibly the most interesting, but it is solid state and according to reviews & BB discussions the optional tubed power supply is not making much of a difference.
Hi, I have just re started my vinyl love affair, after a near 20 year absence, I have begun with the Pro-ject A1 auto turntable, using the built in phono stage, would I benefit from using the pro-ject seperate phone , will I hear a difference? I have a small budget of up to £200, Currently using an Arcam A90 amp, Q Acoustic Q40s floorstanders with bi wire rocket22 cable. Just to throw in to the mix, I am seriously saving to upgrade the turntable to the debut pro later in the year, so would like a phono stage that may also do justice to this, I know, I dont ask much!! thanking you in anticipation, Andy T.
what about Pro-ject tube box S2 or DSD2?
What about the Irish zen phono stage looking forward to the Review
Paul I just purchased a ifi Zen phono preamp and it sounds better than the one in my Macintosh ma252. I would love to hear your thoughts on this.
Interesting. I haven't heard the 252's built-in model but I am always promoting the virtues of an external design so if you hear an improvement then run with it.
I've just bought the Pro Ject Debut Carbon DC and Connected it to my Denon AVR (Which I thought had a built in Phono Amp but it does not). Any suggestions for a phono amp to go with the Ortofon 2m Red Cartridge? Preferably below $200?
Have a look at the Rega Fono Mini and the Pro-Ject Phono Box MM
Would you recommend a Pro Ject phono box for a Proj ject Debut Carbon Evo turntable, and a Cambridge axa35 amplifier? 🤔
It depends on your budget but if cash is tight - sure.
Great Video......My Pick is the..
Project Tube Box DS2
Phenomenal !!
Sorry for the stupid question. If I have a phono stage amplifier, I don’t need a pre amp for the main amp?
I have a McIntosh MA5200 integrated amp (cost: $4500 new). It has an onboard photo preamp. Would I still get some improvement by buying a separate? How much would I have to spend to get that improvement?
Greetings ! I have one specific ask, I own an highly modified Thorens TD160 with a Nagaoka MP-110 Cartridge, plugged into an Accuphase E-305, the phono stage of this amp is brilliant, but one problem, the output level, if I compare some listening of the same albums on my Studio Converter or my CD Player, I have, nearly half of lower output level (Like I litteraly bring the level up by half), so I'm looking for a phono stage, at least as good as the ones on Accuphase amps, and with a much higher output level (MP-110 is given to have a 5mV output), so, if you have any advices for this demand, i'm a taker ! And please, no Tubes/Valves solutions.
Thanks !
Never use 3 words when 33 will do : (
Yes he does waffle on a bit
@@ianyates7742 And thats what makes this videos great, imo.
@@TheNaboen I agree. He has an entertaining way about him.
I just watched it at 2x speed… didn’t mind the loquaciousness so much as the pace, I experience some attention challenges but the playback speed change helped a lot. Great video - thank you!
Isn’t that the entire point of of being British? Some of us love that shit…
Hi there my Friend. I went to the local store and I have found Audio technica lp120 with builded preamp. The price is about 430 euros. They have all so Project phono box. It's external preamp. It cost about 100 dollars. The seller is not a knowledgeable person.
Please does At lp120 work better with external preamp? The sound quality and the signal.?
Or the builded preamp gives the same signal?
I am a little suspicion about this builded preamp after your video.
Thank you man
Any turntable works better with an external phono amp.
Thumbs up to dipswitches where there is a one time(ish) adjustment. Use a flathead precision screwdriver - you'll find about 13 of them in the man-drawer.
Some great 'chi-fi' psu upgrades.....double check as some are AC - AC.
Really informative Paul, thanks it definitely has got me thinking. The price rises and it's "Oh, that one..." I am so useless at saving money, could I justify saving for a Phono Stage? I'll try but £19K has no hope. Great video.
Many thanks.
Hi Paul, I have only discovered your excellent channel very recently. I would very much appreciate your advice. I run a Lenco GL75 turntable with Linn separates- pre-amp and power amp. I've modified the GL75 with PTFE V blocks in the original tone arm, and the G800 cartridge is modified with a Ruby cantilever and Fritz Geiger diamond tip. It's mounted in a nice plinth to finish it off. The performance is superb- audiophile quality playback. I'm looking at investing in a dedicated phono stage, currently, the Linn pre-amp is running the deck through it's inbuilt phone. I believe that further improvements can be made with a dedicated phono stage. I'm considering a Michael Fidler MM PRO phono, or a Vertere phono stage. Which one would you recommend based on your extensive knowledge base? If it was your set up, what would you opt for Paul? Many thanks! :)
Do any of the have dual outputs so I can play out to my stereo receiver for listening but have a second XLR to a mic preamp for recording? Do the output the signal simultaneously?
Funny as it may be, Moving Coil cartridges are not more advanced technology. They are the same technology as moving magnet. There is still a magnet and coil that move in relation to each other. The reason Moving Coil can be preferred is because there is that slightly less weight on the stylus support and can allow the stylus to follow the groove with more accuracy. The external phono pre-amp is good if you are initially on a budget. You can grab the cheaper one, then upgrade when you have the cash where an all in one integrated system is difficult to upgrade just one part.
Does anyone have any experience with the Rothwell Simplex phono stage? Reviews for this unit are scant.
I own the Tavish Design the Classic and replaced the JJ tubes with vintage Tungscram and GE tubes, sounds great. I use a Jensen MC-2RR SUT to step up the voltage from my Hana EL mc, then into the mm section of the Tavish the Classic.
Hello Paul! Do you (or anybody here) know the Vincent PHO 300/500/701?
I'm thinking about adding one of those to my sound system: Toshiba SR-F200 (from 1979) with Ortofon 2m Silver cartridge (MM) + Sony STRDH190 + JBL Stage A130. Any thoughts? Would they match this setup and indeed enhance the sound?
Hi, great video, both informative and entertaining. My question, has anyone experienced the Vincent PHO-300? It seems great value for the money. Thanks!
Thanks for the info... I have an old Technics integrated Amp. I am looking at buying a used Marantz amp to play my records. Should I still look into buying a phono amp to use with the Marantz. I get some noise with my Technics Amp today, but the noise is coming from my equalizer. But if I turn off the EQ the sound is very flat. What do you suggest?
My advice is to remove the equaliser completely. It adds nothing to sound quality. In fact it removes it. Next? It depends on the amp model you're going for - what's your budget?
@@TheAudiophileMan Thank you for your response. I was looking at Marantz sr4320, but I saw on some reviews that the built in phono pre-amp is noisy. But regarding my budget I was looking at around $300 for a used Marantz.
@@TheAudiophileMan The Amp I currently have is a Technics SU-G95. What do you think is a good upgrade to this. Again, I'm on a budget so looking a used amps
Which phono has a brighter sound? That will bring my music to life??
I'm using Fosi Audio BOX X3 phono preamp and bluetooth digital-to-analog converter, and I like it
Sir…. usually I play spotify so want wi fi built in. Is there an amp that does that And Phono for vinyl ? UK based
Hello Audiophile Man and commenters :) I am new to the hifi game and I would love some advice: I was given an old Thorens TD 170 turntable, which I found out are not the worst-worst but nothing too fancy, either. It has a Ortofon DM 10 cartridge, of which I don't know if it's the stanard it comes with or whatever. I also have a LOT of vinyl. I buy it mainly because I like to support the (mostly smaller) bands I buy it from and also because I like the extra artwork etc. I do not have any nice setup to speak of, tho, to listen to them. Since I am a beginner like I said, and I am also not SUPER demanding when it comes to sound quality haha, but I am a musician and I still would like to be able to listen to my vinyl in a decent fashion (and also to not look like a complete savage in front of some of my more audiophile friends) I would like to get started with my setup. Since I would like to also use my speakers with my tv and I lack the cash to get both a sound bar for that purpose AND a hifi setup, I've been looking at the Nubert nuPro SP-200 speakers. Those are ACTIVE, however. Could you guys maybe recommend me a decent pre-amp (or phono amp?! Which one is it with active speakers?? :D ) which I can use to put in between my turntable and my possibly future active speakers? Thank you very much and a happy new year everyone! :)
I didn’t realise that I could get a phono amp for under £70, as my budget is tiny I think I will try one. I want to use my second turntable with my main amp so I presume that I can use the Project through my aux input.
For an external phono amp, any available input is fine - just not the inputs labelled 'Phono' at the rear of an amplifier.
@@TheAudiophileMan thank you for your information. I am using an old Technics integrated amp at the moment while I get my Heybrook pre amp repaired but it would be nice to run a second turntable. My original Pink Triangle turntable has been sat in the shed for more than 20 years as it started to sound slow and my local hifi shop Moorgate Acoustics could not put it right but I have found a company online who can give it a full service and provide an improved power supply. It would be nice to get it going once more as back in the 1980’s I preferred it to the Linn Sondek LP12.
Paul I have the Moon 110 v2 with an external PS, Is the BlueHorizon an upgrade?
Yes.
How do you deal with playing mono records? I notice some phono amps have a mono switch so does this negate the need for a mono cartridge or do you need both or is there a different solution? Cheers.
If you flick a mono switch then that merges the signal and you can get away with using a stereo cartridge to play those records. They will not sound as good as a dedicated mono cart, though, which is far superior. More than that, a mono cart built from the ground up to be nothing but mono is even better than those mono carts which are actually rebuilt stereo models.
@@TheAudiophileMan Many thanks for the quick reply. My integrated amp doesn't have a mono option. Is there some sort of device which can overcome this? Cheers.
A quick and dirty option would be a splitter cable. Take a single channel from your phono amp and then stereo at the other end - the end that connects to the amp. Then your mono signal will be output to both speakers.
Would my system benefit if I add a phono amplifier even tho my At-120x has one built in?
Absolutely, yes.
Hello Paul, I do apologize if this comment is lengthy but I have some questions. I am new to the Hi-Fi world and I am looking at getting the Audio-Technica LP120X turntable, I'm also looking at getting the Yamaha R- N303 Stereo Receiver which has a phono input. I Chose these options because of budgeting purposes and I feel like these options would give me the best sound for the money. My question is if I go with these options do I need a Phono Amplifier? Can I even hook all of that up together? Would it sound better if I had a Phono Amplifier? I am just not sure. I watched your video on the turntable and I have subscribed to your channel. Very good information and I look forward to watching more of your videos. Again I apologize for the lengthy comment have a good one Paul great videos!!
Thanks Eric - you can use the turntable's internal phono amplifier if you wish and that will get you by but an external model is superior in sound terms. The Pro-Ject MM Phono (£69) is ideal. You'll need a pair of phono cables too. Look at QED and get the best you can afford (Amazon).
I like dip switches much harder for someone to change. I have the original moon 110 lp and a specially made power supply made in Hong Kong to replace the wall wart.
Good advice, but, there are plenty of amps out there that have a phono stage - my Rotel for example. Implying that no amplifiers can handle a direct connection from a turntable is not correct and could be confusing, or even possibly cause people to spend money they don't need to
I am using an mxvinyl phonostage with a mcru power supply on my michell orb se turntable with an ortofon quintet black s cartridge and the sound is amazing the mxvinyl is a great phono amp and being small it takes up less space on the rack .
Any thoughts about the Vincent phono preamps? I'm looking for a preamp to use with my Audiolab 6000a, interested on the Vincent Pho 300 (formerly Pho 800) and Vincent 701. All the best from Chile
I’ve reviewed their integrated amps but not their phonos. I do like their general designs, though so I would imagine that their phono amps would work well.
Have a 701 with a soundsmith zephyr cart. Replaced the Chinese tube with a nos amprex bugle boy for about $95 took it to another level
Excellent video, thanks. So would the pro-ject tube box ds2 phono preamplifier be a good choice for my Pro-ject Carbon EVO with Rainier?
Indeed.
@@TheAudiophileMan thanks....but I really think, for the money, I'm going with the iFi Zen Phono
Hi Paul. I have been using the Western Electric Mini Max phono stage for some time now. It is connected to an Audiolab preamplifier which sends the signal to a Rotel Power amp. Very happy with the sound.
I have an essentials 3, plugged on the Pro-ject box mm and the sound is great to me.
So the question is.. how noticeable (for a newbie) is the difference in the sound quality from the Box MM to a Pure sound for example?
Speakers are some cheap edifiers.
Spot on again....just what we need for beginning audioflles..................
Paul, reminder that often, there are at least two more amplification stages after the phono stage; the preampfification stage, either built-in in an integrated amp or as a stand alone separate, and the power amplification driving the speakers.
Great Video. Quick question what would you recommend for a Ruark R7 which has a built in a phono stage already? also would it make sense to plug my phono amplifier into the phono stage or aux, line in sockets?
The RCA inputs would be a good place to plug an external phono amp which will be superior to the built in model.
This is very informative. I'm thinking of getting either a Rega Aria or a Pro-ject RS2. At present I have a Rega Elex-r amplifier and a Pro-ject 2xperience sb dc turntable with an ortofon 2m black cartridge. Has anyone compared similar rega and pro-ject phono stages?
And I'm thinking of upgrading to the ortofon MC cartridge range after I get familiar with my forthcoming phono stage.
review the Waxwing from Park audio
Hi...what are your thoughts on the Chord Huei? Roughly selling for the equivalent of £1000 here in India...
Check out my review, here: th-cam.com/video/ZJX6Ld5Z918/w-d-xo.html
@29:06 i know this is 3 years too late but its, Fi not Fee. Hope this helps.
Well, I bought a pre-amp last week and my FLUANCE RT82 sound fantastic! But now I'm confused about what a "Phono Amplifier" is 🤪🤪
What headphone amp can you recommend for the audio technical lp60 with a pre amp already installed in the turntable
Hi David - what amplifier [main amplifier that is] are you also connected to?
Can you please review the RT83?
Here ya go: th-cam.com/video/vTsjyhc_vNA/w-d-xo.html
HELP ME UPGRADE MY SETUP!
Over the last year I've really enjoyed diving into vinyl listening and have taken bits from my main HT setup and created a second setup solely for vinyl. Details below
Current Setup: Denon X2000 (receiver) | Audio-Technica LP120XUSB (VM95E Cartridge & Built in Phono Preamp) | JBL Studio 590 (Speakers).
I'm interested in making a few wise investments that will take the listening experience, detail, fidelity, etc. to the next level. A few thoughts I had were maybe upgrading to an integrated amplifier (IE Cambridge CXA81), upgrading to an external phono preamp (IE Cambridge Duo, Rega MK5), or upgrading the cartridge (IE Grado Timbre Platinum3).
Any thoughts on what would make the biggest difference? A combination of them? Not sure if going from the Denon to the CXA81 would make a difference (other than just power output), or between the Preamp/Cartidge what would make a bigger impact. I could essentially pick 2 of 3 components. Thanks for any advice and feedback! @The Audiophile Man
Generally? I would work from the source downwards. Upgrade the turntable, then the cart if that's an obvious bottleneck, grab an external phono amp, then the amp, then speakers. In between, improve your ancillaries: isolation, shelving, cabling, etc.
Great video again Paul! I have gone the classic route at reasonable cost. I use the musical fidelity XLPS with the separate XPSU power supply. I use a gold ring moving iron cartridge too. Although the cost is modest the quality is high for MM but has a limited number of setting for MC users. On a personal level I am very happy with what I have. If I had unlimited funds I would stretch to an Avid pulses phono stage but at present my budget will not allow that lol.
What are the REAL benefits on having a phono pre-amp versus the phono circuit inside Rane or Pioneer DJ mixers?
The phono circuit inside a mixer *is* a phono amplifier. Just not a very good one. A mixer is not aimed solely at analogue vinyl play. It's a DJ tool and is packed with a host of features for the same. The build budget for a mixer prioritises DJ tools and DJ-related facilities. The quality of the phono amp in there is pushed way down the list. As long as it does the job, that's all you can ask from a mixer's phono amp.
If pure sound quality is your only priority then that causes issues. The more features you stuff inside mixer chassis, the more high-frequency noise and vibration is present from associated components (all of which veil delicate detail to the phono section), the cramped space in there doesn't help either. So isolation is none existent. Also, if you're looking at a £500 mixer say, just how much cash do you think has been devoted to the phono amp? Not a lot :) So parts quality comes into question. I could go on but I've rambled on enough. Hope that helps.
@@TheAudiophileMan Thanks for your valued considerations!
Excellent instruction and advice sir, thanks !
Thank you! There is shockingly little content on TH-cam (or anywhere really) about phono preamps. It's like most HiFi reviewers have forgotten that phono preamps exist - a strange oversight given the current revival of vinyl records. I'm looking for an endgame phonostage, leaning towards PS Audio Stellar Phono, but it's hard to understand how its performance stacks up against other options with similar specs like the Hegel V10, Gold Note PH10, or Pass XP-15.
Yes, many reviews on the budget side, bit on the high end, I don’t know what to choose.
Counterpoint SA9 was excellent. So was the Aesthetix. The Krell KPA.
I'm brand new to this so please excuse my ignorance. But you mention a "main amplifier" multiple times in the video. Are you referring to the speaker system you're going to be using?
My understanding is it goes Turntable > Phono Amp > Speaker System.
Is that correct? I got a really cheap turntable with built in speakers for Christmas a few years ago and started collecting a lot of vinyl but I barely played any of them because I know my turntable will just damage them, there's not even a counter weight on the arm. I'm looking to get a new turntable and all the necessary equipment to have a proper system. This video was quite insightful but I couldn't follow everything because I am brand new to this.
Also if anyone has any recommendations I'll gladly listen. I'm looking to spend about €500 max on everything to start out. I can always upgrade a bit more then as I go.
For a turntable system, you're looking at Turntable - Phono amp - Amplifier - Speakers. Pus a few cables. There's a few wrinkles here. Firstly, the phono amplifier can be fitted within the turntable itself and/or the amplifier or even the speakers. Soundwise, it's best separated on its own but fitted inside something else can reduce footprint and cost.
If you can save slightly more you could buy a Pro-Ject Primary turntable, Cambridge AXA35 (with built in phono amp) and Q Acoustic 3020 speakers (not the 'i' model, the older model) for around £600 (you'd need to look local for a € price. Otherwise, there is another, cheaper route, going from a turntable with built in phono amp to powered speakers direct (i.e. speakers with the amp built in). That would be within budget. If you'd rather go that route, give me a shout.
@@TheAudiophileMan hi thanks so much for such a comprehensive reply with recommendations, that's really nice of you. I can definitely understand how the amp is very important to get good sound. But the axa35 is about 100 more than the turntable itself, is that normal? I would figure about half the budget should go into the turntable itself no? Of course you'd know better but I'm only wondering. I think I'll have to bring my budget up to about 800 euro which is around 600ish pounds to try get everything but that's fine.
Can I ask though, will this be worth the price? If I'm going to be using an interior phono amp and such will the music sound pretty good? I can understand obviously a turntable set up costing over 1000 will obviously sound better. But will this at least sound better than using my crappy turntable or using spotify on a speaker system? For the record my old turntable is a Bush CTT5 which I don't use considering it can damage my records. If I'd get a significant improvement I don't mind saving up a bit more or upgrading this set up you're recommending later.
@@TheAudiophileMan Hi sorry to bother you but I am now close to making a purchase and I wonder if you could advise me before hand.
First off when you said the Primary turntable, I couldn't find an exact turntable with that name but I presume you mean the Primary E?
What do you think of the AT 120XUSB? A lot of people seem to be recommending that and it seems to be a good price and comes with a built in Phono Amp that I can swap to a dedicated one later on. I think I'll have to upgrade my budget to about €800-900 which is close to like £650-700 to get something worth while. I'd really appreciate it if you could lend me your informed opinion on the matter because while I've read a lot these last two weeks on the matter, I'm still not going to know what's best. Thanks.
Thanks for this great video. A question, what if the integrated amp isnt a budget model but has a phono stage, such as the Naim Supernait 3? I have the Rega Fono Mk 3 that I used with old amp that didnt have a phono stage on board. Would the phono stage in the Supernait 3 trump the Rega Fono Mk 3 phono amp? Turntable is a Clearaudio Concept.Thanks
I'd prefer the external Rega.