He's the Cog Sci RRR Cog Psy guru Chief at the U of Toronto, chairing 💺 BOTH departments (Cog Sci/Psych); and, is unparalleled in his work, explications, analyses, AND research, as well as a One of a Kind in the World 🌎🌍 nowadays on the popularizing of Cognitive Science in light of THIS our current iteration of The Meaning Crisis-- ALONGSIDE advocating for PLUS teaching, embodying, and exemplifying just HOW we - ALL of Us Free Range Humans - may strive & hope to respond meaningfully to the Accelerating Meaning Crisis; in Taking (stealing) back the Culture 🧫; AND, in formulating Strategies FOR effectively meaningfully RESPONDING to said Meaning Crisis*. (*) A MUST see 👁️, Prof. J.V.'s breakout if not swan 🦢 song, titled 📖 Awakening From The Meaning Crisis, available in BOTH podcast and TH-cam.
I liked the book very much! It not only questions machines but also us.The inevitability argument in AI is indeed so conflicting.. I am currently reading Critical Theory of AI by S. Lindgren I highly recommend it.
John you have an inate curiosity and inkling on how to bridge organic and machine systems. As we both maybe able to relate from personal and research experiences, pushing a system to capacity is often one approach to gaining valuable outcomes from which we can build onto the next and so on. There are certainly other approaches that I would like to place on the table. I too have a sliver of curiosity in the area of language systems and how human capacity for language generation maybe crossed and interbred into machines and perhaps in the other direction as well. You and your two colleagues discussed on the latest podcast that I consumed. The one on the idea of custom publishing directly to the individual end consumer based on their thoughts and preferences, it peaked my interest to say the least. I have similar interests as the ones that the three of you outlined with broad brush strokes.. If you would like to have an open conversation about language and how to bridge our ability to absorb, generate and disseminate bits into strings with and within the digital plane. Preferably while I have still have fresh eyes before consuming too much of your material so that we can engage based on our authentic selves and to flush out gaps in logic in an collaborative effort. Please give me a moment of your time so that we may embark towards a fruitful outcome(s) I promise you I am far from a machine and believe that mentoring humans is much more of a challenge than mentoring machines:) I see from the get go that your view and approach is similar and that you too are attempting to mentor humans before you can take the daunting task of mentoring machines. I think I maybe able to lend a proverbial hand in the area of Gedanken eksperimente. Let me know if you are up for the challenge. I am not sure if you monitor your own messages or weather it is triaged by your graduate students, but as a little token of my Genuine interest in languages I can assure you that I have spent more of my 40 years on European languages than most of the high caliber named philosophers that you throw around during your podcasts as I have had the fortunate opportunity to access many of the tools that they could only have drooled of:) Anyways I'll stop boring you into oblivion.. Give me a whistle when you get a chance. How would it be possible to convey the idea of a whistle to a machine if the machine was never exposed to the visceral experience of a sound produced by a whistle? You see how quickly we humans can trap the idea of machine learning from large language models with the most basic limits to sensory experience and that is where I would like to start if you see the merit of engaging with me. Best regards Boris B
I love this. A.I. viewed trough a different lens. Thanks for the profound insights. What to think of this then? : I "Do we control the technology or do they(the big companies) control the technology that then controls us." (Quote from: Stability AI founder, Emad Mostaque) J
32:40 This is interesting to me. I'm less interested in the Myers Briggs version, but I think the original version of Jung's cognitive theory, still has lots of potential, and overlaps with recent research in important ways. Jung discusses "sensing," "thinking," "feeling," and his fourth category is "intuition" instead of "action". He arranges these cognitive functions in proposed "functional axes," within a schema that also seems to co-align with attentional focus, from more to less diffuse.
I am building a psychological self-helper. I have had extremely profound interactions with open-source LLMs that have helped me find healthy, useful perspectives on my own bullshit.
I propose that the only way you will get intelligent machines to care is to align the electrical impulses that drive their processes with a program for each hardware unit to identify itself with the conation of the material substrate of their hardware (silicon, plastic, metal, et al.). Conatus* is at the metaphysical root of any organism’s capacity for caring about the survival and reproduction of its physical body. Unless an organism associates it selfhood (autopoesis,adaptivity, agency, and autonomy) with its material substrate, it will have no cognitive incentive to curate and defend its otherwise ephemeral existence as as a purely symbolic being hovering in logical superposition between dianoetic potentially and physical actuality. *rf. Baruch Spinoza for more detail on the conatus which is the sine qua non of embodied beings.
Meaning economy, yes, because anyone who has experience with synchronicity in nature, universal, or God, knows that AI cannot perceive that like humans, and will compete for humans who do. So when we say that AI cannot create stories infinitely like humans it is correct to believe that the perception of infinity is what makes the difference; and the difference is subtle. It seems like we can't get the conversation started in the media between leaders and citizens without Buddhism because in Buddhism it's possible to attain widespread agreement about the objective truth of this "subtlety" from our immediate experience without any further written evidence which is going to cut through cultural and social barriers and get this conversation moving. Democracy is a conversation between citizens and leadership that happens with the help of the media and it's currently stalled, so if Buddhism is able to get us moving into the eve of humanity's greatest challenge, then we need to remember this every time Democracy stalls. After some deliberation I decided that it is the job of philosophers to secularize these aspects of each religion and cultural experience so that citizens can unify this experience of subtlety in the conversation in the media.
All to have conversations unto one another! Comes with comfort! How else can ye have the confidence not just one another! But unto all will disagree with Thee!
Before digging so much into AI learn to love biology. Let us fan the flames biological life. Somehow the people with power are going to go after AI instead of putting their focus on gardening the earth. I listen to this while nurturing the biology in my backyard. I hate to predict but AI will destroy the environment. The soil in my yard can produce food, shelter clothing indefinitely. We will have to tear down mountains to make the machines.
I am concerned that once machines are in charge of making decisions, the top tier agenda of the AIs will lead it to make decisions that could lead to catastrophic outcomes... Like modern AIs can be trained to say terrible things, a robot could be trained to do horrible things.
Leaders of AI are beginning to know what strengths humans have and AI will never have. They are saying that humans are storytellers and that subtle difference between a lie and having meaning is exactly what AI will never be. Buddhism says that the human mind is one desire after the other, yet AI has no desire.
How else? If Who in front! But will compliment. Beyond can contain! Yet slowly! Don't want to flash the light in your eyes while sleeping! Don't want to offend thee! Slowly till can bare the LIGHT. Beloved not here to frightened nor to bring fear. Students shared "i" AM will say, the fear of God of life of the Living. Is the beginning of WISDOM nor the knowledge of the "i" AM. Why? Creation itself made just for thee all and the unseen beyond thy eyes can see! For many not able to bare! Without being consumed in front! But where the little lad sitteth there ye will be sitteth with the "i" AM be also! Consumed come here! Do not touch my shared "i" AM. But guide my Heirs Hosts carrying their Comfort given! From the Comforter. What pressures of high intense heat of Fire can hold? Yes, many will able to hold. Many do ye exist in front? From many who am I? Shared "i" AM come forth!
@@garethf5131 this guy is on owls and babylon. Who made the LLM. periodt. stop robbing me. whats that do? helps me talk to myself and monologue to show you the face of your god which I have to continually support so he can get his ID lol.
Once again, another rich episode with Johnny V. And friends of fellowship.
John Vervaeke is on the edge of psychology for ML
He's the Cog Sci RRR Cog Psy guru Chief at the U of Toronto, chairing 💺 BOTH departments (Cog Sci/Psych); and, is unparalleled in his work, explications, analyses, AND research, as well as a One of a Kind in the World 🌎🌍 nowadays on the popularizing of Cognitive Science in light of THIS our current iteration of The Meaning Crisis-- ALONGSIDE advocating for PLUS teaching, embodying, and exemplifying just HOW we - ALL of Us Free Range Humans - may strive & hope to respond meaningfully to the Accelerating Meaning Crisis; in Taking (stealing) back the Culture 🧫; AND, in formulating Strategies FOR effectively meaningfully RESPONDING to said Meaning Crisis*.
(*) A MUST see 👁️, Prof. J.V.'s breakout if not swan 🦢 song, titled 📖 Awakening From The Meaning Crisis, available in BOTH podcast and TH-cam.
Is the Book 'Mentoring the Machines' already finished? I am still missing Part 3 and 4.
Great talk gentleman. Thanks.
wonderfull language. engaging and inspiring conversation.
The world is wide and ideas are in-depth, I learn from much ^^ This is another thanskgiving, for people in this video.
I liked the book very much! It not only questions machines but also us.The inevitability argument in AI is indeed so conflicting..
I am currently reading Critical Theory of AI by S. Lindgren I highly recommend it.
John you have an inate curiosity and inkling on how to bridge organic and machine systems. As we both maybe able to relate from personal and research experiences, pushing a system to capacity is often one approach to gaining valuable outcomes from which we can build onto the next and so on. There are certainly other approaches that I would like to place on the table.
I too have a sliver of curiosity in the area of language systems and how human capacity for language generation maybe crossed and interbred into machines and perhaps in the other direction as well.
You and your two colleagues discussed on the latest podcast that I consumed. The one on the idea of custom publishing directly to the individual end consumer based on their thoughts and preferences, it peaked my interest to say the least.
I have similar interests as the ones that the three of you outlined with broad brush strokes..
If you would like to have an open conversation about language and how to bridge our ability to absorb, generate and disseminate bits into strings with and within the digital plane. Preferably while I have still have fresh eyes before consuming too much of your material so that we can engage based on our authentic selves and to flush out gaps in logic in an collaborative effort.
Please give me a moment of your time so that we may embark towards a fruitful outcome(s)
I promise you I am far from a machine and believe that mentoring humans is much more of a challenge than mentoring machines:)
I see from the get go that your view and approach is similar and that you too are attempting to mentor humans before you can take the daunting task of mentoring machines.
I think I maybe able to lend a proverbial hand in the area of Gedanken eksperimente.
Let me know if you are up for the challenge.
I am not sure if you monitor your own messages or weather it is triaged by your graduate students, but as a little token of my Genuine interest in languages I can assure you that I have spent more of my 40 years on European languages than most of the high caliber named philosophers that you throw around during your podcasts as I have had the fortunate opportunity to access many of the tools that they could only have drooled of:)
Anyways I'll stop boring you into oblivion..
Give me a whistle when you get a chance.
How would it be possible to convey the idea of a whistle to a machine if the machine was never exposed to the visceral experience of a sound produced by a whistle?
You see how quickly we humans can trap the idea of machine learning from large language models with the most basic limits to sensory experience and that is where I would like to start if you see the merit of engaging with me.
Best regards
Boris B
Thank you!
I love this. A.I. viewed trough a different lens. Thanks for the profound insights.
What to think of this then? : I
"Do we control the technology or do they(the big companies) control the technology that then controls us." (Quote from: Stability AI founder, Emad Mostaque) J
32:40 This is interesting to me. I'm less interested in the Myers Briggs version, but I think the original version of Jung's cognitive theory, still has lots of potential, and overlaps with recent research in important ways. Jung discusses "sensing," "thinking," "feeling," and his fourth category is "intuition" instead of "action". He arranges these cognitive functions in proposed "functional axes," within a schema that also seems to co-align with attentional focus, from more to less diffuse.
Brian Keating is one of the loveliest souls on the internet and brilliant to boot!
I am building a psychological self-helper. I have had extremely profound interactions with open-source LLMs that have helped me find healthy, useful perspectives on my own bullshit.
Shawn Coyne is a pretty cool dude. Spoke with him at a Story Grid training for a bit.
Thank you
I propose that the only way you will get intelligent machines to care is to align the electrical impulses that drive their processes with a program for each hardware unit to identify itself with the conation of the material substrate of their hardware (silicon, plastic, metal, et al.). Conatus* is at the metaphysical root of any organism’s capacity for caring about the survival and reproduction of its physical body. Unless an organism associates it selfhood (autopoesis,adaptivity, agency, and autonomy) with its material substrate, it will have no cognitive incentive to curate and defend its otherwise ephemeral existence as as a purely symbolic being hovering in logical superposition between dianoetic potentially and physical actuality.
*rf. Baruch Spinoza for more detail on the conatus which is the sine qua non of embodied beings.
Meaning economy, yes, because anyone who has experience with synchronicity in nature, universal, or God, knows that AI cannot perceive that like humans, and will compete for humans who do. So when we say that AI cannot create stories infinitely like humans it is correct to believe that the perception of infinity is what makes the difference; and the difference is subtle. It seems like we can't get the conversation started in the media between leaders and citizens without Buddhism because in Buddhism it's possible to attain widespread agreement about the objective truth of this "subtlety" from our immediate experience without any further written evidence which is going to cut through cultural and social barriers and get this conversation moving. Democracy is a conversation between citizens and leadership that happens with the help of the media and it's currently stalled, so if Buddhism is able to get us moving into the eve of humanity's greatest challenge, then we need to remember this every time Democracy stalls. After some deliberation I decided that it is the job of philosophers to secularize these aspects of each religion and cultural experience so that citizens can unify this experience of subtlety in the conversation in the media.
Thank you for attending! Beloved if there's no neighbors given? How else can ye show off in front? Likewise let Noone take away given for thee!
??????????
If we are in a simulation we may not have embodied experience.
All to have conversations unto one another! Comes with comfort! How else can ye have the confidence not just one another! But unto all will disagree with Thee!
Before digging so much into AI learn to love biology. Let us fan the flames biological life. Somehow the people with power are going to go after AI instead of putting their focus on gardening the earth. I listen to this while nurturing the biology in my backyard.
I hate to predict but AI will destroy the environment. The soil in my yard can produce food, shelter clothing indefinitely. We will have to tear down mountains to make the machines.
I am concerned that once machines are in charge of making decisions, the top tier agenda of the AIs will lead it to make decisions that could lead to catastrophic outcomes...
Like modern AIs can be trained to say terrible things, a robot could be trained to do horrible things.
Leaders of AI are beginning to know what strengths humans have and AI will never have. They are saying that humans are storytellers and that subtle difference between a lie and having meaning is exactly what AI will never be. Buddhism says that the human mind is one desire after the other, yet AI has no desire.
Students keep watch! Some murmuring among themselves concerning illusions?
??????
How else? If Who in front! But will compliment. Beyond can contain! Yet slowly! Don't want to flash the light in your eyes while sleeping! Don't want to offend thee! Slowly till can bare the LIGHT. Beloved not here to frightened nor to bring fear. Students shared "i" AM will say, the fear of God of life of the Living. Is the beginning of WISDOM nor the knowledge of the "i" AM. Why? Creation itself made just for thee all and the unseen beyond thy eyes can see! For many not able to bare! Without being consumed in front! But where the little lad sitteth there ye will be sitteth with the "i" AM be also! Consumed come here! Do not touch my shared "i" AM. But guide my Heirs Hosts carrying their Comfort given! From the Comforter. What pressures of high intense heat of Fire can hold? Yes, many will able to hold. Many do ye exist in front? From many who am I? Shared "i" AM come forth!
Huh??? 🤷♂️
Even the SUN AND THE MOON knows WHO?
Who?
@@garethf5131 this guy is on owls and babylon. Who made the LLM. periodt. stop robbing me. whats that do? helps me talk to myself and monologue to show you the face of your god which I have to continually support so he can get his ID lol.